My Neighbor Makes Drudge Report!

[tonesforjonesbones]

This is the local woman i was talking about who was fired for saying "Merry Christmas". YOU GO GIRL!

Fla. woman claims 'Merry Christmas' got her fired

.By MELISSA NELSON, Associated Press Writer Melissa Nelson, Associated Press Writer – Fri Dec 26, 1:45 pm ET.PENSACOLA, Fla. – A Christian woman claims she was fired from her job because she greeted callers with "Merry Christmas," but the vacation rental company says it's no Scrooge and the woman is just a disgruntled employee.

Tonia Thomas, 35, said she refused to say "Happy Holidays" and was fired, even after offering to use the company's non-holiday greeting. The Panama City woman filed a federal complaint that accuses the company of religious discrimination. She is seeking compensation for lost wages.

"I hold my core Christian values to a high standard and I absolutely refuse to give in on the basis of values. All I wanted was to be able to say 'Merry Christmas' or to acknowledge no holidays," she said Tuesday. "As a Christian, I don't recognize any other holidays."

Thomas said she is Baptist.

Her former employer, Counts-Oakes Resorts Properties Inc., said she wasn't fired for saying "Merry Christmas," but would not elaborate.

"We are a Christian company and we celebrate Christmas," said Andy Phillips, the company's president. Thomas is "a disgruntled employee," presenting a one-sided version of what happened when she was fired Dec. 10, Phillips said.

Liberty Counsel, an Orlando-based legal group that advocates for people discriminated against because of their religion, is representing Thomas before the federal Equal Opportunity Employment Commission. Their complaint also accuses the company of harassing and taunting Thomas after she was fired by calling the police to watch her pack her belongs and leave.

Thomas could have hard time winning the case, said G. Thomas Harper, a Jacksonville-based labor attorney who writes a newsletter on Florida employment law.

"I wouldn't think an employee has the right to insist (on saying Merry Christmas) unless that really is a tenet of their faith. She would have to make a strong case that was part of her beliefs, if not, it becomes insubordination," he said.

Thomas has found another job, but she makes less than the $10.50 an hour she earned with the rental company. She said the trauma of being fired and the pay cut has made for a tough holiday season for herself, her husband and their 6-year-old son.

Harper said when it comes to holiday greetings, the smartest choice might be ignoring the season.

"The best option is just not to say anything," he said.

.Related Searches:equal opportunity employment commission

:p:D

[SeanEdwards]

Ok, my attempt at trolling the resident christians offended someone. Sorry.

[evilfunnystuff]

sounds like she was egging this on to me

[slacker921]

Good. Bible thumpers should be fired. And then shot.

:D

Persecution for religious belief.. That's a Libertarian belief?

[heavenlyboy34]

Good. Bible thumpers should be fired. And then shot.

:D

Be nice, now. She might have had some kind of traumatic experience that keeps her from learning new habits, or a learning disorder or something. :(

Why are you reading that silly Drudge report, OP? It's gone straight downhill for about 10 years. :p

[Uriel999]

Wait was this in pensacola or panama city? I just moved back to pshitty.

[LibertyEagle]

Good. Bible thumpers should be fired. And then shot.

:D

Sean, remember these?:
+ No promoting of campaign tactics or other activity that grossly counter the morals or ethics of Dr.
+ Posting of direct or inferred threats of violence against other people or property that is not your own is completely unacceptable by any user and subject to immediate banning.
+ No promotion of illegal activities.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

[LibertyEagle]

Be nice, now. She might have had some kind of traumatic experience that keeps her from learning new habits, or a learning disorder or something. :(

Learning disorder? Why, are YOU not aware that December 25 is Christmas?

The holiday is Christmas. It's not XMas or anything else. So why wouldn't she say "MERRY CHRISTMAS"? My how things have changed. When I was a kid, no one could have imagined that someone would have been fired over saying Merry Christmas. :eek:

[bojo68]

sounds like she was egging this on to me

+1, and deserved what she got.

[heavenlyboy34]

Learning disorder? Why, are YOU not aware that December 25 is Christmas?

The holiday is Christmas. It's not XMas or anything else. So why wouldn't she say "MERRY CHRISTMAS"? My how things have changed. When I was a kid, no one could have imagined that someone would have been fired over saying Merry Christmas. :eek:

Not what I meant at all. I meant she could have been struggling to understand what she was "supposed" to say, according to the boss. Just trying to find another possibility, that's all. I like detective games sometimes. :D Like most news stories, the black and white details fail to give a total understanding of the surrounding circumstances and events. I agree that she should be allowed to say Merry Christmas. I don't mind that at all-it's rather nice when merchants do it, IMHO. :)

Merry Christmas, LE! ~hug~

[LibertyEagle]

+1, and deserved what she got.

Interesting. After seeing how so many stores have stopped any association of the holiday with its true meaning -- the birth of Christ -- I must admit that I have become disgusted with this clear and obvious effort to undermine Christianity in our country. I have become so disgusted that I REFUSE to shop at any store that engages in such practices and I let them know it too. :D

It may be the neat and cool thing for the younger generation to hate Jesus, but I have to tell you, that you're falling right into the plans laid by the very same people you hate for destroying our country. Part of me can't even believe I'm saying this to you, because I am far from a Bible-toter. I haven't been to church in YEARS, but I do believe in God. But I am saying this, because I have seen this transition over my lifetime and I have done the research to know what is happening was all part of a grand plan. It's very sad for me to see my brothers and sisters in liberty, falling for it. :(

[bojo68]

Interesting. After seeing how so many stores have stopped any association of the holiday with its true meaning -- the birth of Christ -- I must admit that I have become disgusted with this clear and obvious effort to undermine Christianity in our country. I have become so disgusted that I REFUSE to shop at any store that engages in such practices and I let them know it too. :D(

Heh, Me too. I won't give my money to anybody promoting a religious agenda either. In fact, the closest dog food store has a religious nut owner, and even though I've known him for 38 yrs, I go out of my way to buy elsewhere.
Far as undermining christianity goes, it's LONG OVERDUE. Here, public education got started because of a war between bible thumpers and the KKK over who got to indoctrinate the kids with their propaganda.

[Uriel999]

Heh, Me too. I won't give my money to anybody promoting a religious agenda either. In fact, the closest dog food store has a religious nut owner, and even though I've known him for 38 yrs, I go out of my way to buy elsewhere.
Far as undermining christianity goes, it's LONG OVERDUE. Here, public education got started because of a war between bible thumpers and the KKK over who got to indoctrinate the kids with their propaganda.

You do realize the KKK fancies itself a Protestant Christian organization?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Yes, this is in Panama City. i'm telling you .. Liberty, I've about had it with these punks. honestly...If they want to drive the very last of the sensable adults off this forum...well..the owners need to get a grip on it. if this is the forum they want...well...i'm about on my way outta here. I hope I can take a few with me when I go...this forum has nothing to do with Ron Paul...it's a flop house for little brats. TOnes

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes, this is in Panama City. i'm telling you .. Liberty, I've about had it with these punks. honestly...If they want to drive the very last of the sensable adults off this forum...well..the owners need to get a grip on it. if this is the forum they want...well...i'm about on my way outta here. I hope I can take a few with me when I go...this forum has nothing to do with Ron Paul...it's a flop house for little brats. TOnes

It does have a LITTLE bit to do with RP, but till he's running again, we have to do something else. :eek:

[Dieseler]

Christians for Ron Paul Forums.
Has a good ring to it.

[bojo68]

You do realize the KKK fancies itself a Protestant Christian organization?

No, I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised. I'll admit I don't keep very informed on KKK positions...:) Them being, or claiming to be christian is good comic relief, or testament to the absurdity of some religions.:)

[Tatsit]

Yes, this is in Panama City. i'm telling you .. Liberty, I've about had it with these punks. honestly...If they want to drive the very last of the sensable adults off this forum...well..the owners need to get a grip on it. if this is the forum they want...well...i'm about on my way outta here. I hope I can take a few with me when I go...this forum has nothing to do with Ron Paul...it's a flop house for little brats. TOnes


Well come to www.itsourfreedom.com -- I want the forum to remain liberty minded and current event minded - not religion minded :P

My opinion on this topic is - if her boss said "you say happy holidays" well they are the one paying her paycheck so you say "happy holidays" or you can quit. Being insubordinate is not the best way to keep your job...

It is one thing to be liberty minded and like her, I hate being politically correct - but there is a time and place... Oh and no - I am not christian - or religious well to the popular sense.

[angelatc]

It may be the neat and cool thing for the younger generation to hate Jesus, but I have to tell you, that you're falling right into the plans laid by the very same people you hate for destroying our country.

Ditto. I don't really believe in God, at least not the Christian god, but this "all religion must die" stuff is really, really scary.

[asimplegirl]

Had me going for a minute, until the whole "trauma of being fired" thing came into play.

Sounds like this woman was looking for a fight.

I hate that people are stifled, but the company is owned by Christians...they didn't ask her to not be Christian, they just asked her to greet people with happy holidays...and how hard is that?

For one, the customer may not be Christian and could result in a loss of a customer, and for two, happy holidays covers thanksgiving, Christmas, and new years... what's so wrong with that?

I have heard of people fired for their religious preferences, but this doesn't appear to be one of those cases from what I have read. Some people are just bademployees, and just because they are fired *after* something like this, does not mean they were fired *because of* this.

[emazur]

Learning disorder? Why, are YOU not aware that December 25 is Christmas?

The holiday is Christmas. It's not XMas or anything else. So why wouldn't she say "MERRY CHRISTMAS"? My how things have changed. When I was a kid, no one could have imagined that someone would have been fired over saying Merry Christmas. :eek:

Well, try to imagine a similar situation where you are the business owner, and you have an Islamic employee. Things have been going good for months, and eventually you reach the month of Ramadan. The Muslim starts greeting your customers with "asalamalikum". Some customers feel uneasy about this and start complaining. You warn the employee, but she continues with the same greeting, and some of your longtime customers stop coming to your business. You again approach the employee and tell her that you want to run a religion-neutral workplace, and that if she continues with her same greeting you will terminate her employment. She counters that "It's Ramadan. Why wouldn't I say asalamalikum?" Perhaps you admire her principles, but decide that because you have your own family to take care of and cannot afford any further loss of business, you decide it's in your own best interest to fire her. You get sued, perhaps losing so much money, either fighting the lawsuit or from paying for the verdict, that you cannot continue to run your business so you shut down (or worse, decide you will never run a business again b/c you are afraid of the consequences of being forced to accommodate employees that devastate your bottom line). Seem fair?

Now, it may or may not be the case that Muslims feel the need to say asalamalikum during Ramadan, but just substitute Islam for another religion that may cause your employee to say something potentially considered offensive to customers during their holy holiday ("Happy Hanukkah" perhaps), and you get the point I'm trying to make. If you counter that Christianity should be an exception to this argument in America b/c the majority are Christians (or just celebrate Christmas), then you are arguing for the will of the majority over the minority, and that's not what liberty is about.

That being said, I don't know the details of what really went on at this business mentioned in the article, but in my opinion she shouldn't be fired for saying "Merry Christmas", but if she was warned not to say it by the boss then the employer should reserve the right to terminate her employment.

[asimplegirl]

exactly.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

If this were government-oriented, you might have a case for discrimination or something. But a private company reserves the right to do things like this.

Next.

[pinkmandy]

A company doesn't have a right to tell someone what religion to believe in or what they can or cannot do in their private time but when you are working for someone and part of your job is greeting people then you do it the way the company tells you to do it. That's your job.

And public school was not founded by bible thumpers and the KKK. Part of the goal was to remove religious indoctrination and family closeness while replacing them with worship of and blind obedience to the state. It was founded by socialists, bent on laying the bedrock of socialism in this country with the intention of brainwashing and dumbing down the population so those seeking to undermine this country could do so with the consent of the masses. Mission accomplished. On to the next step...

[LibertyEagle]

Well, try to imagine a similar situation where you are the business owner, and you have an Islamic employee. Things have been going good for months, and eventually you reach the month of Ramadan. The Muslim starts greeting your customers with "asalamalikum". Some customers feel uneasy about this and start complaining. You warn the employee, but she continues with the same greeting, and some of your longtime customers stop coming to your business. You again approach the employee and tell her that you want to run a religion-neutral workplace, and that if she continues with her same greeting you will terminate her employment. She counters that "It's Ramadan. Why wouldn't I say asalamalikum?" Perhaps you admire her principles, but decide that because you have your own family to take care of and cannot afford any further loss of business, you decide it's in your own best interest to fire her. You get sued, perhaps losing so much money, either fighting the lawsuit or from paying for the verdict, that you cannot continue to run your business so you shut down (or worse, decide you will never run a business again b/c you are afraid of the consequences of being forced to accommodate employees that devastate your bottom line). Seem fair?

Now, it may or may not be the case that Muslims feel the need to say asalamalikum during Ramadan, but just substitute Islam for another religion that may cause your employee to say something potentially considered offensive to customers during their holy holiday ("Happy Hanukkah" perhaps), and you get the point I'm trying to make. If you counter that Christianity should be an exception to this argument in America b/c the majority are Christians (or just celebrate Christmas), then you are arguing for the will of the majority over the minority, and that's not what liberty is about.

That being said, I don't know the details of what really went on at this business mentioned in the article, but in my opinion she shouldn't be fired for saying "Merry Christmas", but if she was warned not to say it by the boss then the employer should reserve the right to terminate her employment.

From what the article states, the employee suggested just leaving off the holiday greeting altogether and just greeting them as they would on any other day of the year. That idea was rejected by management. So, you see, she was offering an alternative.

You know, in most cases I would agree with you. But forcing a Christian to go against their faith on the most important holiday of the year for that faith, well, I'm sorry, I think this is different.

[asimplegirl]

And, as the owner stated, he himself was a Christian...and OWNED the business, so if he wanted her to say something, or not say something, and she voluntarily went against his orders, she deserved to be fired. He also stated that she was a bad employee.

Maybe you were not aware of this, but often times when a worker is told by her boss what to do, it is not her job to offer an alternative. It *is* however her job to follow orders.

She was not told to go against her faith. She was told to say Happy Holidays...not " Happy Jesus-is-not- real-so-this-holiday-is-dumb".

She deserved what she got. Good for the owner.

[Kludge]

How dare employers try to tell their employees what to do!

I *really* need to start up a religion... Yelling "fuck you!" is how we bless others. Any employer not comfortable with my saying that to customers can go pound sand after I sue his ass.

[LibertyEagle]

Hhmm.... you're probably right. I totally understand her reticence for cutting Christ out of the holiday greeting, but they had a right to fire her. I wouldn't have, but yes, they had that right.

[yongrel]

An oldie, but a goodie:
http://www.deadtech.net/files/u1/fuckyoursinsjesus.jpg

[bill50]

A company doesn't have a right to tell someone what religion to believe in or what they can or cannot do in their private time but when you are working for someone and part of your job is greeting people then you do it the way the company tells you to do it. That's your job.

End of discussion.

[Uriel999]

Yes, this is in Panama City. i'm telling you .. Liberty, I've about had it with these punks. honestly...If they want to drive the very last of the sensable adults off this forum...well..the owners need to get a grip on it. if this is the forum they want...well...i'm about on my way outta here. I hope I can take a few with me when I go...this forum has nothing to do with Ron Paul...it's a flop house for little brats. TOnes

Tones, as we have debated before you know my position regarding religion but I am not sure you realize I am on your side on this one. The article states the corporation but can you tell me the actual businesses because I will boycott them myself. BTW, good to see other panama shitty folks on the forum!!! I'm just still sad you voted Mc "I always aspire to be dictator" cain. And please don't leave the forum, think about it like this internal the debate is good for us as it vetts us for 2012. And if your calling me a brat fuck you. :D It just so happens many of us feel the religiosity of Christianity has become incredible dangerous to the freedom movement. The pat robertson's and other nuts are dangerous to liberty and we are greatly against them.


No, I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised. I'll admit I don't keep very informed on KKK positions...:) Them being, or claiming to be christian is good comic relief, or testament to the absurdity of some religions.:)

I'd say more comic belief. It's just greatly frustrating that I an atheist know more about Christianity than the majority of Christians I have met. There are only 2 Christians I have ever met that may actually be more knowledgeable in the bible than I am and one was a former Jesuit professor and the other was a slightly nutty Unitarian.


An oldie, but a goodie:
http://www.deadtech.net/files/u1/fuckyoursinsjesus.jpg

Atheist offended...

[Sandra]

Learning disorder? Why, are YOU not aware that December 25 is Christmas?

The holiday is Christmas. It's not XMas or anything else. So why wouldn't she say "MERRY CHRISTMAS"? My how things have changed. When I was a kid, no one could have imagined that someone would have been fired over saying Merry Christmas. :eek:

Actually, Dec 25 is also Hannukah in a very Jewish region of Florida. Jesus observed Hannukah, why don't Christians?

I think the whole gist of this is evangelicals try so hard to smother any other religious observance with their own. Christ COMMANDED us to observe Passover as such("this do in rememberance of me"). Have fun with Santa and Easter Bunny, silly myths in keeping with pagan observances.

Merry Christmas indeed.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Sandra...Jesus got rid of the law...we've been over this many times. You can not be a jew and a christian. Two different covenants...Old Testament Old Covenant..New Testament New Covenant.

Uriel...the name of the company is in that article. Panama City is pathetic at the moment...i am ready to move AGAIN! lol

This would have never happened to a muslim or a jewish person. There is an obvious attack on Christianity and our Holy Days. We are tired of it and hopefully this will get other Christians to stand up...I don't care if it is a private business or not...it's time to stop the madness. Tones (remember...next time it could be YOU)

[tonesforjonesbones]

Furthermore, lets put that high heel on the other foot. Say, you are an atheist but you get a job at a Christian bookstore. At Christmas time, the boss demands the employees to greet all customers with Merry Christmas....but you are an atheist, or some other faith...you balk, you get fired. How would you handle that? Tones

[asimplegirl]

You would deserve to still be fired if you do not do as your boss tells you, especially if you are a bad employee. Doing your job is usually 90% things you don't like and having to put up with crap you wouldn't form anyone else.

If you are an atheist and get a job at a christian bookstore, you should be well aware that you will probably not like the half of what goes on...but hey, a job's a job, right?

People of different colors, different religions, different cultures, different geographical locations get fired the same way.... none of them like it and wish that they could slam the company and maybe make another buck off em, this lady has that chance, whether she is exaggerating or not...whatever let it play out, I just hope the boss doesn't lose too much money. If you are a bad employee who does not do your job, the boss should fire you. Period.

[tonesforjonesbones]

So...most people who are fired for mundane reasons..who challenge "the boss" ...are disgruntled employees? They ALWAYS say that...when the employee stands on their rights and principles. It's happened to me..when I was in the military. I didnt' get fired of course, but when the chain of command was doing unscrupulous things...and i stood up to my first sergeant...he said the same thing. 'she's just a disgruntled soldier" was i disgruntled ? YES! i took the issue UP to the battallion sgt major...and the first sgt was repremanded. They ALWAYS say that when you fight back! I will always fight back against unethical behavior. Are we disgruntled patriots because we dare to challenge the POWERS? We have no right to REDRESS of GRIEVENCES...or we're BAD AMERICANS? HOGWASH! AND...how do you think it feels when you dare to redress grievences in the military when the first sgt. calls you in his office...slams the door, puts you at parade rest and screams about 5 inches from your face and you cant do a damn thing but stand there and take it. I STILL FOUGHT BACK...up the chain of command..and I WON! TONES

[pinkmandy]

This would have never happened to a muslim or a jewish person. There is an obvious attack on Christianity and our Holy Days. We are tired of it and hopefully this will get other Christians to stand up...I don't care if it is a private business or not...it's time to stop the madness. Tones (remember...next time it could be YOU)

Fox News has been pushing this war on Christmas propaganda for years now. Looks like it's working. Yes, it's a war. You are all under attack. Fight, fight, fight. :rolleyes:

So apparently it is not okay for an employer to give someone a job w/specific job duties. And apparently saying Happy Holidays to their DIVERSE clients instead of Merry Christmas is religious discrimination. Are the Jewish employees allowed to say Happy Hannukah? What about Happy Kwanza? Seriously, this is ridiculous.

Yes, Christians, stand up. You are being walked all over and non-Christians are just so darn intolerant of you. Just ask the gay people who can't sign a legal contract that would give the legal protections of a married couple, entitle them to health insurance benefits, and many other things everyone else has. Wait...who is stopping them from that? And who has decided that Israel must be protected at all costs so there can be a rapture?

I'm not anti-Christian, just anti-hypocrisy. I know Christians who don't stand for the above but from my experience they are a minority. Individual freedom is great as long as it doesn't offend the fundies? :cool:

[asimplegirl]

So...most people who are fired for mundane reasons..who challenge "the boss" ...are disgruntled employees?

No. I never said that. I said arguing over something as dumb as this lady did, when she should have said what she was told and kept her mouth shut since this was obviously not a violation of rights, was worth being fired for...and certainly no happy employee would've acted like such a baby.

I never said don't fight back if you are denied your rights.. never did I say that at all..but this lady was not told by her *christian* employer not be christian, nor was she told to denounce her religion to customers, she was simply told to *NOT* say something, which is easy enough. After all, they are his employers, and his customers, and if he didn't want to lose the business of people who may have been offended, it was well within his rights to fire her.

This woman did not have her rights infringed upon. As a matter of fact, I would say denying a business owner the right to fire someone who down right *refuses* to do what he says, even if it is bad for his company is an infringement upon *his* rights. He obviously didn't think that his (what was it, travel agency?) needed to advertise anyone's religion...especially considering that "Happy Holidays" isn't only a non-christian term..I say it all the time when I am seeing someone I may not see for awhile...it covers Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years.

I also wouldn't say that this woman was fired over a mundane reason, I would say that she caused a large issue out of a mundane one. Her being fired is *her* fault.

(just so you know, pink mandy, I am part of that minority)

[tonesforjonesbones]

The woman had the RIGHT to NOT give any holiday greeting...she said she would do that. I don't give a crap if it's a private business..your natural rights given by GOD are NOT suspended...I don't care if the black dude wants to say Happy kwanza...who cares? smh. tones (IF its Kwanzaa time)

[asimplegirl]

The boss obviously did care though, tones.

It was not her place to give the greeting she wanted...she was being petty.

[tonesforjonesbones]

asimple girl, you were warned and banned and that got over ruled. i am doing my own ban..you go on ignore. how bout that? I have never put anyone on iggy so far...this is a new day. ToNes

[LibertyEagle]

Actually, I agree. There was nothing wrong with her checking to see if she could not give a greeting at all, but once her boss told her no, she had the option of quitting or doing what he said. It's a private business, after all. If government was telling her she couldn't say Merry Christmas in the public sphere, that would be something different altogether.

I stand corrected on my initial thoughts on this and appreciate the comments that caused me to reconsider.

[pinkmandy]

(((hugs))) SimpleGirl. I have a great deal of respect for the Christians who simply walk the walk (like Jesus did) w/out the need to fight everything and everyone to convince people they are right and all else is wrong. One of my dearest friends is a Christian of that mindset. I totally respect her and others like her. They don't make the news, though, nor do they hold powerful positions. :(

And welcome. I've read quite a few of your posts and have to say I agree w/most everything you say. We are very similar from what I can tell. :D

[asimplegirl]

Look, I will explain like this. Say you are vegetarian, butthe only job you can get is at burger king, okay?

So, you are working, and you must give a greeting about the food. So, you are told to say "we have good food"..simple as that. But, you wanting to be petty because you dont like meat, decide to fight it.

I will not give them the greeting you want!, you say...you tell the boss that instead you could say, "I am a vegetarian, and we have food".... your personal beliefs are not in question at all. There is no reason for a diverse clientele to know them. Since you have a job dealing with the general public, it is your job to make sure *everyone* of your bosses prospective clients are happy, and to not offend.

Your boss does not care what you do in your personal life, or even if you tell everyone of your coworkers you are vegetarian, he just sees no reason to upset his business because of *your* personal beliefs. And that is his right...

Just as you shouldn't sell burgers if you are against the consumption of meat, you should not work with the general public if you are against being non offensive to a diversity of customers.

[asimplegirl]

Actually, I agree. There was nothing wrong with her checking to see if she could not give a greeting at all, but once her boss told her no, she had the option of quitting or doing what he said. It's a private business, after all. If government was telling her she couldn't say Merry Christmas in the public sphere, that would be something different altogether.

I stand corrected on my initial thoughts on this and appreciate the comments that caused me to reconsider.

This shows that, despite my initial thoughts, you after all have an open mind, LE. :)

If I had simply put you on ignore for disagreeing, I would never learned this of you.... just as if you put those you disagreed with on ignore, you would've never seen the point of the other side.

Applause to you.

[asimplegirl]

(((hugs))) SimpleGirl. I have a great deal of respect for the Christians who simply walk the walk (like Jesus did) w/out the need to fight everything and everyone to convince people they are right and all else is wrong. One of my dearest friends is a Christian of that mindset. I totally respect her and others like her. They don't make the news, though, nor do they hold powerful positions. :(

And welcome. I've read quite a few of your posts and have to say I agree w/most everything you say. We are very similar from what I can tell. :D

Well, thank you, it is one of my itchy buttons.lol.. I get aggravated really fast with those that are the general mass of Christians that pick and choose what they will believe of the word.

It is nice to meet someone of a like mindset. I am proud you have the chance to know some good christians...give them a hug for me, and tell them to stay strong for the few of us left, okay?

Anytime you want to talk, you should PM me or something. I hear there is a chat around here somewhere, but am too dense to figure it out.:)

[pinkmandy]

asimple girl, you were warned and banned and that got over ruled. i am doing my own ban..you go on ignore. how bout that? I have never put anyone on iggy so far...this is a new day. ToNes

She wasn't rude. She just has a different opinion so you put her on ignore? :confused: How very tolerant. :rolleyes:

[tonesforjonesbones]

My choice. tones

[brandon]

If this were government-oriented, you might have a case for discrimination or something. But a private company reserves the right to do things like this.

Next.

Yep, exactly what I was thinking. This "disgruntled employee" needs to stfu. She is exactly what is wrong with this country. Another person who thinks everything needs to be "fair" and when they don't get their way they run to the government and ask for help (at the expense of others).

A business owner can fire whoever they want for whatever reason (or lack of) they want.

[Danke]

A business owner can fire whoever they want for whatever reason (or lack of) they want.

Maybe in our ideal world, but they have laws that they will use against a business for doing that.

[tonesforjonesbones]

If a business gets tax breaks or federal money..guess what...they have to NOT discriminate..how bout that. tones

[brandon]

Maybe in our ideal world, but they have laws that they will use against a business for doing that.

I'm aware. This whole thing is just insane though. I don't know how any rational person (Especially a Ron Paul supporter!) could think that it should be illegal for an employer to fire an employee.

[Danke]

If a business gets tax breaks or federal money..guess what...they have to NOT discriminate..how bout that. tones

And in the eyes of the law they are not discriminating by having all employees greet customers the same way.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Sure..but have a good reason to fire..not because your employee stands on their first amendment rights..and even offers to use a regular greeting not a holiday greeting... that's no reason to fire someone. I say she will win this lawsuit and people in my town are boycotting that business.. righton. Tones

[brandon]

If a business gets tax breaks or federal money..guess what...they have to NOT discriminate..how bout that. tones

That is such bullshit. Get out of your politically correct fox news world and actually think about this.

The entire application, resume, interview process of trying to get a job is based on discrimination. They get a bunch of applicants for one job, and they discriminate to determine which one is the best.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate

[tonesforjonesbones]

Religious discrimination...'nuff said. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

I rarely watch television...try again. tones

[pinkmandy]

If a business gets tax breaks or federal money..guess what...they have to NOT discriminate..how bout that. tones

Everyone in this country gets "tax breaks". Should the govt make sure every single person isn't discriminating? That's where we are heading w/bs like the woman in this article is spouting. How about churches and their tax breaks? Is that the path you want to go down? That's what you're "fighting" for.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I have no problem with churches getting tax breaks...they get no grant or federal money, but rely on their congregants donations to survive. That goes for synagoges and mosques and temples also, by the way. Tones

[Danke]

I'm aware. This whole thing is just insane though. I don't know how any rational person (Especially a Ron Paul supporter!) could think that it should be illegal for an employer to fire an employee.

So you are supporting Bryan's summary firing of Bunchies!?!?! :eek::p

[brandon]

Religious discrimination...'nuff said. tones

So you are saying that a drug rehabilitation facility looking for new employees should not be allowed to discriminate against followers of the FREE MARIJUANA CHURCH (http://www.freemarijuanachurch.org/)?

[Danke]

Religious discrimination...'nuff said. tones

If they don't hire, or they fire, because of your religion, that would be discrimination.

Not what you can or not say at work. Two separate issues.

[pinkmandy]

I have no problem with churches getting tax breaks...they get no grant or federal money, but rely on their congregants donations to survive. That goes for synagoges and mosques and temples also, by the way. Tones

By your own logic getting a tax break from the Fed means no discrimination.


If a business gets tax breaks or federal money..guess what...they have to NOT discriminate..how bout that. tones


You say businesses but that's merely a precedent, the groundwork. Govt doesn't stop growing. They take one precedent and expound upon it. Businesses become any entity taking tax breaks, eventually even individuals. So pay up or don't discriminate. Big brother knows best and we have to be fair across the board, right? In your attempts to justify your thoughts you're shooting yourself in the foot. Fox is smart. Christians are being used to pave the way for a bigger loss of rights because what you are fighting for, once applied to law across the board to all, morphs into less freedom for everyone. Keep fighting the fight, though.

[tonesforjonesbones]

It is not. So, you are saying that they can't use discrimination against me as a woman in the hiring process..but after they hire me they can? lol...my husband is handicapped..blind in one eye..he works for a private corporatation. They couldn't discriminate on hiring and they can't NOW either... <eyeroll> tones

[asimplegirl]

If a business gets tax breaks or federal money..guess what...they have to NOT discriminate..how bout that. tones

How is it discriminating to fire a worker for refusing to do what they are told...it is not as if she was asked to tell people that God didn't exist, she was just told to wish Happy Holidays, instead of Merry Christmas by her *Christian* bosses as to not offend customers ?

[brandon]

It is not. So, you are saying that they can't use discrimination against me as a woman in the hiring process..but after they hire me they can? lol...my husband is handicapped..blind in one eye..he works for a private corporatation. They couldn't discriminate on hiring and they can't NOW either... <eyeroll> tones

I think that eyeroll you just did is offensive to your husband and should be illegal. :rolleyes:

But seriously, what if your husbands job required depth perception?

[asimplegirl]

Religious discrimination...'nuff said. tones

Her religion had NOTHING to do with her job. It is not a religious business. Again, he did not ask her to denounce her beliefs, just to not offend customers. That was an order to ALL employees obviously, not just to her.

'nuff said.

[pinkmandy]

It is not. So, you are saying that they can't use discrimination against me as a woman in the hiring process..but after they hire me they can? lol...my husband is handicapped..blind in one eye..he works for a private corporatation. They couldn't discriminate on hiring and they can't NOW either... <eyeroll> tones

That's what happens when you make everything about discrimination, though, even when it isn't. You're asking for more laws, more govt interference and while it may seem to benefit Christians on its face- even if it's over something petty like this particular situation- the law applies to everyone. You are asking for MORE govt, to protect you so you don't have to do your job as your boss requires it. Like I said, soon the govt can regulate all that for you and even a whisper of discrimination will allow the govt to crack the whip. Again, that's the big picture and what you're fighting for.

[pinkmandy]

Her religion had NOTHING to do with her job. It is not a religious business. Again, he did not ask her to denounce her beliefs, just to not offend customers. That was an order to ALL employees obviously, not just to her.

'nuff said.

Bingo.

But let's pass a law so it doesn't happen again! Because our govt isn't big enough and we still have a few rights they haven't dictated to us yet. :rolleyes:

[Danke]

It is not. So, you are saying that they can't use discrimination against me as a woman in the hiring process..but after they hire me they can? lol...my husband is handicapped..blind in one eye..he works for a private corporatation. They couldn't discriminate on hiring and they can't NOW either... <eyeroll> tones

I assume you are address my previous post.

One's physical attributes are different from one's actions. Again, two seperate issues.

[asimplegirl]

Bingo.

But let's pass a law so it doesn't happen again! Because our govt isn't big enough and we still have a few rights they haven't dictated to us yet. :rolleyes:

Oh, yes, but all while yelling from the rooftops that we need smaller government!::smirk::

[Sandra]

Sandra...Jesus got rid of the law...we've been over this many times. You can not be a jew and a christian. Two different covenants...Old Testament Old Covenant..New Testament New Covenant.

Uriel...the name of the company is in that article. Panama City is pathetic at the moment...i am ready to move AGAIN! lol

This would have never happened to a muslim or a jewish person. There is an obvious attack on Christianity and our Holy Days. We are tired of it and hopefully this will get other Christians to stand up...I don't care if it is a private business or not...it's time to stop the madness. Tones (remember...next time it could be YOU)

JESUS SAID this do in remembrance of ME. Explain that one away please. Your explanation is absolutley ruinous to the Christian faith. You are in fact an evangelical which may set your beliefs apart from most Christians.

[asimplegirl]

That's what happens when you make everything about discrimination, though, even when it isn't. You're asking for more laws, more govt interference and while it may seem to benefit Christians on its face- even if it's over something petty like this particular situation- the law applies to everyone. You are asking for MORE govt, to protect you so you don't have to do your job as your boss requires it. Like I said, soon the govt can regulate all that for you and even a whisper of discrimination will allow the govt to crack the whip. Again, that's the big picture and what you're fighting for.

It's kind of like that black dude who got fired and they sdaid "black hole" around him, so he must've been discriminated against... he actually sued...said black hole was a racist term... hrmmm..

Or how Al Sharptongue tried to make it illegal for anyone who is not a minority to purchase rope over 18 inches...claimed it was discrimination, and not making it illegal was enabling the white man to continue his oppression of the black people.

See? Just because you see it, doesn't always mean its there. No one is going to think "Well, gee golly, I sure am a nut. This whole situation I am upset over must've all been exaggerated by the mood I am in. I think that I am wrong." When they are obviously going to be extremely ticked over being fired anyway. I know I sure and crap don't. I see things how I see them when I am mad, and you'd better not tell me I am wrong, or else you are just trying to push me further. And then, afterward, you don't have a job, you need money, the boss ticked you off, you were spewing your venom, why not sue him over it? Hell, its a quick buck and will teach him to mess with you, right?

[asimplegirl]

I see absolutely no reason to assume that Christ was not talking to all religions when he gave his rule, considering that there weren't so many as there are today. I definitely do not understand this hatred of even other religions among we Christians...funny part?

If Christians believe that there is only one god, how can they say that other religions do not serve God, or that they do not serve the same god? If there is only one, they must be talking about the same guy, just reading what he says differently, and calling him a different way. It's all what you read into it. WE must all learn that our way is not the *only* way. And that a hindered spirit from being too pushy is still a spirit that has been pushed away, and is in many ways much worse than a spirit that was never in contact with your form of right.


::sigh:: some people will never see it, though.

[jonhowe]

"As a Christian, I don't recognize any other holidays."

Wow, you're a [Redacted by Moderator].

So, because you don't CELEBRATE other Holidays, that means they just don't exist for you? And you HAVE to say Merry Christmas? You can't just, say nothing? Wow.

No way she wasn't out to get something with this, she was given options, but at the end of the day she's an employee, she needs to comply with the office standard or find a new job. She isn't owed that job, it's not her right to get paid by them, it's mutual. If she can't play by their rules, fire her!

I'm sorry she's your neighbor.

[pinkmandy]

JESUS SAID this do in remembrance of ME. Explain that one away please. Your explanation is absolutley ruinous to the Christian faith. You are in fact an evangelical which may set your beliefs apart from most Christians.


I agree. And this is what the MSM spews as "Christianity" while phrasing it in propaganda such as "attack on Christianity", "war on Christmas" and other such nonsense. It is to rile up the Christians so they can fight for their own demise through more govt control while thinking they are fighting for their faith.

This is also why so many have grown to resent the faith as a whole. It's the neocon fundie view put forth by the media that govt is not there to protect the rights of all, but to enforce the beliefs of some. The hypocrisy is maddening.

[asimplegirl]

I agree wholeheartedly, pinkmandy.. I hate it, but I know it is true.

[Uriel999]

Sandra...Jesus got rid of the law...we've been over this many times. You can not be a jew and a christian. Two different covenants...Old Testament Old Covenant..New Testament New Covenant.

Uriel...the name of the company is in that article. Panama City is pathetic at the moment...i am ready to move AGAIN! lol

This would have never happened to a muslim or a jewish person. There is an obvious attack on Christianity and our Holy Days. We are tired of it and hopefully this will get other Christians to stand up...I don't care if it is a private business or not...it's time to stop the madness. Tones (remember...next time it could be YOU)

According to the book of Mathew Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17).

So technically Christians should celebrate Hannakuh...Don't be offended now you get another awesome holiday filled with cool candles and driedals and 12 days of presents not just 1!!!

Also I did see the name but thought that was the corporation overall not just a particular business.

Also it is interesting when I discuss my disgust for Islam and its teachings people act like I am wrong for pointing out the militarism of the religion. Then again, I've actually read the Quran and a bit of hadith as well, those who try to argue against me only have what the PC police told them.

[LibertyEagle]

Sure..but have a good reason to fire..not because your employee stands on their first amendment rights..and even offers to use a regular greeting not a holiday greeting... that's no reason to fire someone. I say she will win this lawsuit and people in my town are boycotting that business.. righton. Tones

Yeah, but the 1st Amendment deals with the GOVERNMENT controlling speech. It doesn't speak to what I, as a property owner, allow on my own property. For example, if a guest is in your house and starts cursing up a storm, or let's say reading from some pro-satanic literature, do you not have the right to kick them the hell out? Sure you do. You have a right to kick them out for whatever reason you choose. You set the rules on your own property. Just as the business owner sets the rules on his.

You're right that government has intervened in a whole lot of areas and dictates to business owners on a variety of issues, but I don't consider that a good thing at all.

Texas is a right to work state and I think that's the best way to be.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, i guess the business is tied to the government due to tax incentives and government dough (possibly)..so that makes it valid. I guess we shall see how the case comes out. Liberty Council is huge..and fights against the ACLU and wins all the time on discrimination against Christians...so they evidently considered it important enough to take the case. I am hopeful..that she wins.

Uril..my dear...Jesus died on the cross...that was fulfillment of the law...he bore the sins of the world so we would no longer have to worry about:

blood sacrifices
circumcision
kosher laws
stoning
keeping the sabbath
and another 600 or more. His sacrifice gave us absolution from sin if we repent and try again.

Did you know that "sin" is an old english archery term..which means if you missed the target, someone called "sin" you missed the mark..go back and try again.

Sandra... When Jesus said "Do this in rememberence of me" he was referring to the Eucharist...Holy Communion...the bread (Body of Christ) and the wine (Blood of Christ)..not Passover.

Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is my body." And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."
Book of Matthew


That is the point of the Holy Eucharist....to remember Jesus died for the sins of Believers.

TONES

[LibertyEagle]

Well, i guess the business is tied to the government due to tax incentives and government dough (possibly)..so that makes it valid.

Wouldn't that be the definition of fascism?

My understanding is that the entire crux of individual liberty hinges on private property rights. If we totally lose those (and we've lost a lot already), the whole enchilada is over.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I understand that...but as I said, my husband applied for his jobs..all of them, and guess what..they are private corporations..and they still maintain Equal Opportunity Employer..no discrimination on religion, race, gender etc...

They get perks from the government for it. he was not discriminated against for his blind eye. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

I guess they would have to cut themselves off from any tax breaks or government perks to truely be considered private. I really think that is why those stores had to back off on demanding their employees not say Merry Christmas...the biggies like wally world and target...because I got a lot of Merry Christmases from the clerks at wally world. tones

[LibertyEagle]

I understand that...but as I said, my husband applied for his jobs..all of them, and guess what..they are private corporations..and they still maintain Equal Opportunity Employer..no discrimination on religion, race, gender etc...



I disagree in principle with EEOC and most of these employment laws. They sound all nice and fine, but they are one reason why our companies are not able to compete, so they move much of their businesses overseas, where they don't have to comply with these laws.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, i think it has to do with getting tax breaks / incentives and government dough..if a business refused that...maybe they wouldn't be bound to those things. tones

[LibertyEagle]

I wasn't aware that government mandates like EEOC were optional.

Anyway, what makes you think that the company in question was receiving "government dough"?

[tremendoustie]

Learning disorder? Why, are YOU not aware that December 25 is Christmas?

The holiday is Christmas. It's not XMas or anything else. So why wouldn't she say "MERRY CHRISTMAS"? My how things have changed. When I was a kid, no one could have imagined that someone would have been fired over saying Merry Christmas. :eek:

If the company asked her to say "happy holidays" and she refused, it doesn't seem that far out to me.

I don't understand how saying "happy holidays" goes against any Christian belief. I mean, obviously Hanukkah and other holidays exist, why is it necessary to pretend they don't?

I mean, if I say "Happy Hanukkah" to someone that's Jewish, that doesn't mean I'm repudiating Christmas, or that I myself don't celebrate Christmas, it just means I'm wishing that that person enjoy their Hanukkah.

I guess I don't get it.

[asimplegirl]

Whatpeople don't realize is that Christmas isn't exactly a Christian holiday anymore.

It can be Xmas, or whatever the heck you want itto be, because ieven Christians don't celebrate it as such anymore. It is a commercial holiday, it is a federal holiday. It is all about buying, and dressing up, and decorating. That's all anymore.

What about the poor people that celebrate Hanukkah? They get off work for Christmas, but MUST work on the day they celebrate- THAT is religious rights being violated.

This woman got what she deserved, and just because someone knows her, or is in the same political party as her, or the same skin color, or even lives on the same street as her.... does not mean they are obligated to agree with her. If you are so Christian, stand up for what is right!

You know that this woman did not have any right violated, and if she goes into a court room and says she did, and you still stand by her, you stand by her decision to lie under the name of God, under oath..and that would make you a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Maybe it's time Christians give everyone else a dose of their own medicine. I am GLAD she is standing for her faith...Christianity gets slammed every day. I'm ready to start a revolt. Tones

[asimplegirl]

she is not standing for her faith by being intolerant for being told to just be non offensive. she is going against everything in her religion.

she is standing for being a selfish employee who is not in the least understanding that that is a business, and not her personal sounding board.