Religion must die for mankind to live

[smartguy911]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZWDyMLGIQ

[JK/SEA]

religion is a mental dis-order.

[angelatc]

Merry Christmas to you too, little tiny [Redacted by Moderator].

[Freedom 4 all]

For fuck sakes it's Christmas. Could this not wait for like any single other day of the year?

[MRoCkEd]

nevermind

[Anti Federalist]

You may not believe in God, but he believes in you.;)

Peace, my brother.

[Liberty Star]

Bill Maher says some rational things at times and at other times he is more of a pro violence racist crook. He is a mixed bag.

[lucius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZWDyMLGIQ

WE SHALL DESTROY GOD
3. But even freedom might be harmless and have its place in the State economy
without injury to the well-being of the peoples if it rested upon the foundation of faith
in God, upon the brotherhood of humanity, unconnected with the conception of
equality, which is negatived by the very laws of creation, for they have established
subordination. With such a faith as this a people might be governed by a wardship of
parishes, and would walk contentedly and humbly under the guiding hand of its
spiritual pastor submitting to the dispositions of God upon earth. This is the reason
why IT IS INDISPENSABLE FOR US TO UNDERMINE ALL FAITH, TO TEAR OUT OF THE
MIND OF THE "CATTLE" THE VERY PRINCIPLE OF GOD-HEAD AND THE SPIRIT, AND TO
PUT IN ITS PLACE ARITHMETICAL CALCULATIONS AND MATERIAL NEEDS.
...
If this gives birth to the atheists whom we see to-day, it will not, being only a
transitional stage, interfere with our views, but will serve as a warning for those
generations...

Essential to understand this egregore [mindset]...just because you do not think that you are cattle doesn't mean that others don't hold that belief...read a page from the cookbook.

[heavenlyboy34]

Are these-"THE VERY PRINCIPLE OF GOD-HEAD AND THE SPIRIT, AND TO
PUT IN ITS PLACE ARITHMETICAL CALCULATIONS AND MATERIAL NEEDS." inherently incompatible? Modern history shows that man endeavors to reconcile them.


WE SHALL DESTROY GOD
3. But even freedom might be harmless and have its place in the State economy
without injury to the well-being of the peoples if it rested upon the foundation of faith
in God, upon the brotherhood of humanity, unconnected with the conception of
equality, which is negatived by the very laws of creation, for they have established
subordination. With such a faith as this a people might be governed by a wardship of
parishes, and would walk contentedly and humbly under the guiding hand of its
spiritual pastor submitting to the dispositions of God upon earth. This is the reason
why IT IS INDISPENSABLE FOR US TO UNDERMINE ALL FAITH, TO TEAR OUT OF THE
MIND OF THE "CATTLE" THE VERY PRINCIPLE OF GOD-HEAD AND THE SPIRIT, AND TO
PUT IN ITS PLACE ARITHMETICAL CALCULATIONS AND MATERIAL NEEDS.
...
If this gives birth to the atheists whom we see to-day, it will not, being only a
transitional stage, interfere with our views, but will serve as a warning for those
generations...

Essential to understand this egregore [mindset]...just because you do not think that you are cattle doesn't mean that others don't hold that belief...read a page from the cookbook.

[Liberty Star]

He says he doesn't believe in wars for "God" but he does believe in wars of his choice and in sacrificing American lives and dollars on wars not for defending America. Go to minute 4 in this clip and watch his argument with Scheuer and Garofalo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tv82Gwo7i0

That makes him an hypocrite.

[Gaius1981]

Here's a great video on religion and communism – or rather "the mystics of spirit" and "the mystics of muscle".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luKo_w-EVmU

[Anti Federalist]

Bill Maher says some rational things at times and at other times he is more of a pro violence racist crook. He is a mixed bag.

Ugh, is that what that clip was of...glad I didn't click on it.

Maher is a douchebag, unfunny as comedian and clueless as a political commentator, with all that going for him, you'd think he would not be able to carry such a giant load of hubris as well.

There's a doctoral thesis in theology/sociology waiting out there to examine just what it is in a catholic upbringing that can turn people so bitterly against their religion. Maher and Carlin being two examples.

Yeah yeah, I know, besides the obvious reasons.

[JK/SEA]

Merry Christmas to you too, little tiny dickheads.

HAHA.

You will be merry, you will spend money, you will say merry christmas to everyone, put up the tree, decorate your house, sing songs, go to church and sneer as you look down on those who don't feel YOUR joy....and you will enjoy it or suffer the wrath.

Now get out there and spread cheer or you will be ex-communicated and made to look like a less than human monster.


HAHA.


BTW...religion is not spirituality.

[Anti Federalist]

HAHA.

You will be merry, you will spend money, you will say merry christmas to everyone, put up the tree, decorate your house, sing songs, go to church and sneer as you look down on those who don't feel YOUR joy....and you will enjoy it or suffer the wrath.

Now get out there and spread cheer or you will be ex-communicated and made to look like a less than human monster.


HAHA.


BTW...religion is not spirituality.

:rolleyes::D:rolleyes::D:rolleyes::D:rolleyes::D

[Imperial]

Interestingly, in Orwell's dystopian novel 1984 religion is used as a means to facilitate ignorance and become a tool of the Party and overpowering elite few.

However, in the other great dystopian novel Brave new World by Aldous Huxley, religion has been banned. Its message gives people hope and gives some justification to give allegience to something other than the overriding goal of pleasure, bringing with it ignorance of all else.

Religion is like anything else- you can take it and corrupt it, or you can use it for the betterment of mankind.

PS: I am young and Catholic, and I haven't turned against my religion...there is a whole ton of variation in how devout families are. The religion is taken different ways by different people...

[Dr.3D]

HAHA.

You will be merry, you will spend money, you will say merry christmas to everyone, put up the tree, decorate your house, sing songs, go to church and sneer as you look down on those who don't feel YOUR joy....and you will enjoy it or suffer the wrath.

Now get out there and spread cheer or you will be ex-communicated and made to look like a less than human monster.


HAHA.


BTW...religion is not spirituality.

I will do none of those things and I am not afraid of being ex-communicated by some clown who doesn't even know God.

[heavenlyboy34]

I will do none of those things and I am not afraid of being ex-communicated by some clown who doesn't even know God.

You know you wanna. ;)

[Dr.3D]

You know you wanna. ;)

No I really don't want to. It is a man made holiday and has nothing to do with God and more to do with selling stuff to people and celebrating 'Saturnalia', an ancient pagan winter solstice ritual.

[heavenlyboy34]

No I really don't want to. It is a man made holiday and has nothing to do with God and more to do with selling stuff to people and celebrating 'Saturnalia', an ancient pagan winter solstice ritual.

OK. But if I catch ya under the mistletoe, I'm giving ya a big smooch! ;) :) lol

[Dr.3D]

OK. But if I catch ya under the mistletoe, I'm giving ya a big smooch! ;) :) lol

Another pagan ritual... it's up to you if you want to do that I guess, I won't try to stop you. :D

[heavenlyboy34]

Another pagan ritual... it's up to you if you want to do that I guess, I won't try to stop you. :D

~giggles~

[lucius]

Interestingly, in Orwell's dystopian novel 1984 religion is used as a means to facilitate ignorance and become a tool of the Party and overpowering elite few.

However, in the other great dystopian novel Brave new World by Aldous Huxley, religion has been banned. Its message gives people hope and gives some justification to give allegience to something other than the overriding goal of pleasure, bringing with it ignorance of all else...

Interesting perspective, the scientific dictatorship that is being weaved around us, appears at this time, as a more 'Brave New World' variant. We are banning spirituality through self-censorship. Dialectic materialistic secular humanism is the ideal product for control at this point of the 'great work' and is reflected by our society.


...Religion is like anything else- you can take it and corrupt it, or you can use it for the betterment of mankind...

Pike seems to think that religion has been cooked from the get-go, judging from the old testament and more recently, the scofield reference bible machinations, I tend to agree--co-opted for control:

All true dogmatical religions come from the Kabbalah and lead back to it: all that is scientific and great in religious dreams of all the illuminated such as Jacob Boehme Swedenborg, St. Martin and others similar is borrowed from, the Kabbalah. All the masonic associations owe their secrets and symbols to it.

~Albert Pike, 'Morals and Dogmas', p. 744-745.

How did the Jesuits put it? Word of God twisted by man...

[yongrel]

Stupid thread.

[heavenlyboy34]

Stupid thread.

Yep. That seems to be going around lately. :(:p

[Truth Warrior]

Personally, I view STATE as a much bigger and more imminent threat to human survival. :p ;)

How many nukes does the Vatican have? :rolleyes:

[heavenlyboy34]

Personally, I view STATE as a much bigger and more imminent threat to human survival. :p ;)

How many nukes does the Vatican have? :rolleyes:

Depends on which governments the Vatican secretly controls. ;) But, I do agree that the state is a bigger threat.

[BlackTerrel]

religion is a mental dis-order.

Merry Christmas douche :D

[lucius]

Are these-"THE VERY PRINCIPLE OF GOD-HEAD AND THE SPIRIT, AND TO
PUT IN ITS PLACE ARITHMETICAL CALCULATIONS AND MATERIAL NEEDS." inherently incompatible? Modern history shows that man endeavors to reconcile them.

ARITHMETICAL CALCULATIONS AND MATERIAL NEEDS is dialectic materialistic secular humanism, which is the synthesis of modern history.

Do you think if there is another 1929-like depression, with our newfound belief structure, will the common man 'love their neighbor like thyself' or eat them?

I have seen this inculcating in china--Bon Appétit. Works great at further isolating the individual from his true strength: his fellow man.

So busy fighting each other, little to resist the state--excellent for control.

The cross in the crown was effective control for millenniums, in our stage of alchemy/social-engineering, it is time to ditch the cross (or whatever), we are now free to elevate science/state to fill this void.

[Anti Federalist]

Personally, I view STATE as a much bigger and more imminent threat to human survival. :p ;)

How many nukes does the Vatican have? :rolleyes:

This^^^^ QFT.

I think they are pretty short on reverse engineered bioweapons as well.

That is what will bring about the destruction of humanity.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

religion doesn't need to die, it just needs to back away from people who aren't interested

[PatriotOne]

This^^^^ QFT.

I think they are pretty short on reverse engineered bioweapons as well.

That is what will bring about the destruction of humanity.

The churches are not about using force. Their preferred method is mind control....leading the lambs to the slaughter so to speak.

Note: This article is no longer available on CNN's website but it was there in Nov when I posted it originally here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=168463&highlight=pope

Pope calls for a new world order

Thursday, January 1, 2004 Posted: 1421 GMT (10:21 PM HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/eu...01/pope.ny.ap/

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope John Paul II rang in the New Year on Thursday with a renewed call for peace in the Middle East and Africa and the creation of a new world order based on respect for the dignity of man and equality among nations.

John Paul presided over a morning Mass inside St. Peter's Basilica to mark the World Day of Peace, which the Roman Catholic Church celebrates every January 1. He appeared in good form, delivering his entire homily in a strong and clear voice despite a relatively tiring holiday schedule.

This year, John Paul directed his thoughts to continuing conflicts around the globe. But he stressed that to bring about peace, there needs to be a new respect for international law and the creation of a "new international order" based on the goals of the United Nations.

He called for "an order that is able to give adequate solutions to today's problems based on the dignity of the human being, on an integral development of society, on solidarity among nations rich and poor, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technical progress."

The pope lamented continuing violence between Israel and the Palestinians, and also offered his prayers for his ambassador to Burundi, Archbishop Michael Courtney, who was gunned down by assailants this week as he returned from a funeral.

John Paul said Courtney was killed "while he carried out his mission in favor of dialogue and reconciliation" in the central African country, which has been wracked by violence for a decade.

"Let us pray for him, hoping that his example and sacrifice will bring about the fruits of peace in Burundi and the world," he said.

Earlier this month, John Paul issued a formal document marking the World Day of Peace in which he called for a reform of the United Nations and international law to deal with the evolving threat of terrorism.

He said a new respect for international law was the only way to achieve peace and guarantee against the arbitrary use of force. He did not mention the United States by name, but his message appeared aimed at the U.S. anti-terrorism campaign—and in particular at Washington's pre-emptive war in Iraq, which was launched without the specific authorization of the United Nations.

John Paul was a vocal critic of the Iraq war, dispatching envoys to Washington and Baghdad to try to prevent hostilities from breaking out and exhorting world leaders that war was not inevitable and was "always a defeat for humanity."

"Because peace is possible ... it is necessary," he said during his homily Thursday.

The New Year's Mass was the last major celebration of the Christmas season for John Paul, who is 83 and suffers from Parkinson's disease, which makes it difficult for him to speak, as well as knee and hip ailments that make it almost impossible for him to walk or stand.

He cut back some of his holiday activities and scrapped two traditional papal events—the ordination of bishops January 6 and baptisms on January 11.

But throughout the Christmas season, he has appeared far stronger than during the series of celebrations in October marking his 25th anniversary as pope. Then, he was unable to deliver many of his homilies and had to have others to read them on his behalf.

[JK/SEA]

Merry Christmas douche :D

Oh the irony, the irony.

[PatriotOne]

Feds Train Clergy To "Quell Dissent" During Martial Law

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/60085/

Posted by Adam Howard at 12:55 PM on August 17, 2007.

Pastors and other religious representatives could become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government."

The video to your right is a shocking KSLA news report which confirms that so-called "Clergy Response Teams" are being trained to by our federal government to "quell dissent" in the event of a declaration of martial law. Pastors and other religious representatives could become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" and how to participate in property and firearm seizures, mass vaccination programs and forced relocation.

The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often taken out of context bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to "obey the government" when martial law is declared.

Pastors were told that they would be backed up by law enforcement in controlling uncooperative individuals and that they would even lead SWAT teams in attempting to quell resistance.

Though some doubted the accuracy of this report at the time due to its fundamentally disturbing implications, the story has now been confirmed by a KSLA 12 news report, in which participating clergy and officials admit to the existence of the program.

It was related to the Pastors that quarantines, martial law and forced relocation were a problem for state authorities when enforcing federal mandates due to the "cowboy mentality" of citizens standing up for their property and second amendment rights as well as farmers defending their crops and livestock from seizure.

It was stressed that the Pastors needed to preach subservience to the authorities ahead of time in preparation for the round-ups and to make it clear to the congregation that "this is for their own good."

[Dr.3D]

Feds Train Clergy To "Quell Dissent" During Martial Law


Now I have to wonder when they will get around to training me. I'm 'clergy' and they have not approached me yet.

[PatriotOne]

Now I have to wonder when they will get around to training me. I'm 'clergy' and they have not approached me yet.

Are you denying the existence of the training program or want to know where to sign up? They already tested the program during Hurricane Katrina.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/reports/katrina-lessons-learned/appendix-b.html

Faith-based organizations supported the relief effort as well. For example, 6,000 Southern Baptist Relief volunteers from 36 state conventions served in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Texas following the hurricane and flood. These volunteers ran mobile kitchens, and recovery sites.4 They also established hundreds of "pop-up" shelters created by churches or other agencies.5 Operation Blessing, comprised of a network of faith-based partners and resources, provided food and shelter to help those in need and transported food and other supplies with their own fleet of trucks.6 They also made over $4 million in Fast Cash Grants available to church and smaller relief groups throughout the affected region.7 Members of the Salvation Army came from across the nation and served over one million meals, sheltered more than 31,000 people in seven states, and provided aid to displaced citizens in thirty states.8 The Salvation Army not only strengthened the social service infrastructure in those states directly impacted by the hurricane and flood - they did so nationwide. The Salvation Army's network alone fielded more than 60,000 health and welfare inquiries and helped to locate 25,508 people to date.9 These and many other faith-based organizations filled the gaps that other private and public sector organizations could not. Christ in Action, an inter-denominational non-profit organization from Manassas, Virginia deployed volunteers and mobile kitchens to Gulfport, MS and began feeding people on September 1. After 115 days of operations, Christ in Action served over 420,000 meals and repaired over 500 houses in time for families to reoccupy their homes by Christmas. Based upon lessons learned from this experience, Dr. Denny Nissley, the Director of Christ in Action, is organizing a Coalition of Faith-Based First Responders from around the Nation to be prepared for the next major disaster. This Coalition will perform disaster relief training for volunteers and will maintain a current roster of thousands of volunteers who can be quickly called upon to provide support during the next major disaster.

[Dr.3D]

Are you denying the existence of the training program or want to know where to sign up?

Neither, I doubt they would figure it would do any good with me anyway.

[PatriotOne]

Neither, I doubt they would figure it would do any good with me anyway.

Good to hear. Hopefully you will be telling people to run the other way.

[hypnagogue]

Bill is a mixed bag, this is true. Most people are. I enjoyed the clip because it's a good old fashioned rant about something which gets under my skin as well. If you didn't already agree with the sentiment it would only sound stupid. Obviously, it wasn't meant to be a persuasive piece.

Of course religions thrive off "persecution," which is what religion's defenders too often call rational criticism.

[Mesogen]

I liked it as a rant I guess. My problem with it, and the movie "The Root of All Evil?" by Dawkins is that they try to say that it is religion that is the root of all this irrationality and violence. Actually, the stupidity and irrationality would most likely be there anyway. Religion has the ability, though, to feed it and direct it toward evil ends. But other things can be used for this. Nationalism, statism, racism, xenophobia are some things that could take the place of religion (and do) to feed fear and violence. So religion isn't the root of all evil. It, like other things, can be used to manipulate people. If it didn't exist something else would take its place.

[Mesogen]

Bill Maher: Ron Paul is my Hero:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYDt7kC3Z0

[Anti Federalist]

The churches are not about using force. Their preferred method is mind control....leading the lambs to the slaughter so to speak...


On all of what you posted and on the larger point of religion being yet another system of control over the minds of men, you won't get a peep of an argument from me.

But I still hold, as TW said, that the state is much greater threat to human life than the church, as it stands right now.

Baptists didn't run the gulags.

[xd9fan]

Religion must die for mankind to live
never heard a more dipshit statement in all my life. Talk about Govt central planning speak....

If you do not believe in God or a higher power......Govt will replace him.
and Good luck with that.

You that fear Religion....wake up Do you see those tricky Christians plotting to take your freedom away..........hello start seeing the 800lb Gorillia in your room called the Federal govt.
Talk about bigger fish to fry...

Govt will take 2 things away from you to enslave you quickly
1 your God
2 your Guns

Thats why we have the freedom of both

good luck

[Truth Warrior]

This^^^^ QFT.

I think they are pretty short on reverse engineered bioweapons as well.

That is what will bring about the destruction of humanity. Or perhaps just another stupid arrogant optimistic "well intentioned" TRAGIC and species FATAL ( that time ) SNAFUBAR. :p :rolleyes: :(

Beware the "Law of Unintended Consequences". Out with a whimper and not with a BANG!

Thanks! ;) :)

The Real World Order Is Chaotic (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer185.html)
Much as it bothers the god-kings.


"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive." -- Albert Einstein

[Truth Warrior]

Calculated Chaos: Institutional Threats to Peace and Human Survival (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595263497/qid=1146427713/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-9969215-0616638?/lewrockwell/).

[PatriotOne]

On all of what you posted and on the larger point of religion being yet another system of control over the minds of men, you won't get a peep of an argument from me.

But I still hold, as TW said, that the state is much greater threat to human life than the church, as it stands right now.

Baptists didn't run the gulags.

I would agree in general but in some cases the churches do run the gulags. They just don't call them gulags. In Canada, they called them "residential schools" to re-educate the "savages" into Christianity. The re-education included abducting the Indian children and imprisoning them, beating them, raping them (and forcing them into pedophile rings), starving them, poisoning them, hanging them, doing medical experimentation on them, involuntarily sterilization, and if that wasn't enough, intentionally infecting them with tuberculocis, small pox, etc. Then the church stole their land. They don't call the ones who lived through the residential schools "survivors" for nothing. The death rate in these schools was over 50% and that doesn't include the loss of life due to involuntary sterilization of children.

Have you ever watch UNREPENTANT: KEVIN ANNETT AND CANADA'S GENOCIDE before? It is a fascinating documentary about the role of the church during the genocide of Canada's indiginous people. Though the doc focuses on Canada, it is similar to the churches role of recent genocide in many places in the world (Australia, Pacific Islands, etc., etc., etc.). Gives a whole new meaning to "spreading the gospel". The God of the Christian bible authorizes this behavior though.

When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land you are entering to possess, and drives out before you many nations, and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not allow any of them to live. This is what you are to do with them: break down their alters, smash their sacred stones, cut down their trees and burn them in the fire. For you are a people chosen by the Lord over all others on the face of the earth. Deu 7: 1-2, 5-6

This is a powerful film I would encourage everyone to watch to understand how religion is used to justify horrors/genocide/nation building all over the world in the name of "God":

UNREPENTANT: KEVIN ANNETT AND CANADA'S GENOCIDE (documentary)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133

[Truth Warrior]

THE WORLD'S MOST DANGEROUS BOOK
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/other/alan-watts-bible.html (http://www.katinkahesselink.net/other/alan-watts-bible.html)

[Conza88]

There is only one REAL bible.

The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard. (http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics.pdf)

It is far more moral, ethical & Godly than any other bible or religious document that says so.

I oppose organized religion, but not spirituality. The NWO wants to place the STATE, as the new God. Spirituality is a hurdle. The end of Zeitgeist addendum speaks volumes. It is apart of their goal.

To believe you need organized religion, is to be a sheep. Why do you need a middle man to talk to your God? = EPIC FAIL.

:)

[Truth Warrior]

There is only one REAL bible.

The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard. (http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics.pdf)

It is far more moral, ethical & Godly than any other bible or religious document that says so.

I oppose organized religion, but not spirituality. The NWO wants to place the STATE, as the new God. Spirituality is a hurdle. The end of Zeitgeist addendum speaks volumes. It is apart of their goal.

To believe you need organized religion, is to be a sheep. Why do you need a middle man to talk to your God? = EPIC FAIL.

:)

On Liberty, John Stuart Mill, 1859 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=173048) ;) :D

[asimplegirl]

Well, while I think religion can do wonderful people for some who can handle it, I agree with whoever said on maybe page two that it should back off....just not in the exactway as they mean it.

I think that there are some people who ruin it for us all, even us fellow believers. You would not believe how many times I have had fellow christians try to "save" me, when I already have a religion, and so forth..they just do not give up..it's the human element that gets us.

My uncle, who is a Methodist Reverend said this to me:
"If religion never did exist...if there were no God- humans would have created it anyway...it's just how we do things. It makes us feel better to have someone to lead us, especially someone we cannot question, and will direct us to do what is right in our opinion. It gives us an excuse for this opinion. The only problem is, being complex creatures, we *do* question him, and not just his existence, but his reasoning, and try to bend these rules to our liking, and it is this bending, this reading into it what we may that causes so much hatred, so many wars, so many born enemies. We have more enemies within our own belief system that outside of it."

I found this to be quite profound, and agree with it wholeheartedly. So, while I believe religion as a whole to be a good idea, in this light, this added human element, religion *really does* have to die for us to live....or else we will just continue to hate, continue to kill each other, continue to breed that hatred into our children, forming rebellion that leads to hard lifestyles, and sometimes even REALLY immoral things like murder, until we are a smallerand smaller species....

and all in the name of GOD. It is kind of sad when you think about it.

I used to have this picture in my room as a child. It had three small children all about 2 years old sitting next to each other. One was Christian, one was Jewish, one was Muslim. At the top it said, " They are not born hating each other, but they will learn". We should remember this...it is very harmful to US when we are pushy, and not very compassionate. When we can't see past our own platforms to love, we are not showing what we are intended to. Jesus leaves the judging up to him...we cannot handle it... It cause exactly what I stated above... it's between man and God. Remember to love in God's name. Remember to understand. Remember to smile at someone. Remember to help someone. Remember to listen. Remember to be kind. Hindering a spirit does not lead it down the correct path, it only pushes it away.


Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God.
—Romans 15:7

God welcomes you, even with all your perfections. Are you so pure as to not welcome someone with them as well?

[asimplegirl]

For all of us, some laughs on this holiday:

http://thebackpew.com/toon.jpg

[Truth Warrior]

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan! The proper study of mankind is Man."





"Many people never grow up. They stay all their lives with a passionate need for external authority and guidance, pretending not to trust their own judgment." -- Alan Watts

[PatriotOne]

i used to have this picture in my room as a child. It had three small children all about 2 years old sitting next to each other. One was christian, one was jewish, one was muslim. At the top it said, " they are not born hating each other, but they will learn".

qft.

[asimplegirl]

what is qft? sorry, am new to forums.

[lucius]

quoted for truth (qft)

[mport1]

I don't think that religion must die for mankind to live, but the world would certainly be a FAR better place without it.

[asimplegirl]

so, when you quote me and say qft, does that mean something like, "so true", or does that mean more like, "prove this is true"? I know it seems dumb, but this is all Greek to me.:)

Please wise grasshopper, do explain.

[PatriotOne]

so, when you quote me and say qft, does that mean something like, "so true", or does that mean more like, "prove this is true"? I know it seems dumb, but this is all Greek to me.:)

Please wise grasshopper, do explain.

qft (quoted for truth) means I agree with that particular statement :)

[Cowlesy]

Merry Christmas to you too, little tiny dickheads.

Quoted For Truth.


You may not believe in God, but he believes in you.;)

Peace, my brother.

Quoted For Truth.


Stupid thread.

Quoted For Truth.


Personally, I view STATE as a much bigger and more imminent threat to human survival. :p ;)

How many nukes does the Vatican have? :rolleyes:


Quoted For Truth.

[mediahasyou]

Religion is a voluntary philosophy. The religious few that use force would do the same without religion.

Religion doesn't kill people, people do.

[Truth Warrior]

Religion is a voluntary philosophy. The religious few that use force would do the same without religion.

Religion doesn't kill people, people do. :(

Quoted For Truth. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

so, when you quote me and say qft, does that mean something like, "so true", or does that mean more like, "prove this is true"? I know it seems dumb, but this is all Greek to me.:)

Please wise grasshopper, do explain.

You are correct. That is, qft is used when a member believes the quoted material is true and/or good.

[mediahasyou]

Personally, I view STATE as a much bigger and more imminent threat to human survival. :p ;)

How many nukes does the Vatican have? :rolleyes:

qft

[PatriotOne]

Religion doesn't kill people, people do.

People kill people in the name of God. The Bible encourages it ;)

When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land you are entering to possess, and drives out before you many nations, and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not allow any of them to live. This is what you are to do with them: break down their alters, smash their sacred stones, cut down their trees and burn them in the fire. For you are a people chosen by the Lord over all others on the face of the earth. Deu 7: 1-2, 5-6

And why do Christians conveniently forget that you are suppose to NOT question authority because they were put in place by God? Won't questioning Goerge Bush be a sin against God and won't Christians go to hell?

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

[Anti Federalist]

Thanks for the link, I've heard mention of this, but never looked into it too deeply.

I'll look it over.

Based on just your quick summary, I'll still stand by my original comment.

Who gave "police state" powers to the church to carry out these atrocities?

Same applies to the horrors of the Inquisitions. The church had to be backed by the governments of that day, or intertwined with them.

Thus the reason for: "Congress shall make no law...".


I would agree in general but in some cases the churches do run the gulags. They just don't call them gulags. In Canada, they called them "residential schools" to re-educate the "savages" into Christianity. The re-education included abducting the Indian children and imprisoning them, beating them, raping them (and forcing them into pedophile rings), starving them, poisoning them, hanging them, doing medical experimentation on them, involuntarily sterilization, and if that wasn't enough, intentionally infecting them with tuberculocis, small pox, etc. Then the church stole their land. They don't call the ones who lived through the residential schools "survivors" for nothing. The death rate in these schools was over 50% and that doesn't include the loss of life due to involuntary sterilization of children.

Have you ever watch UNREPENTANT: KEVIN ANNETT AND CANADA'S GENOCIDE before? It is a fascinating documentary about the role of the church during the genocide of Canada's indiginous people. Though the doc focuses on Canada, it is similar to the churches role of recent genocide in many places in the world (Australia, Pacific Islands, etc., etc., etc.). Gives a whole new meaning to "spreading the gospel". The God of the Christian bible authorizes this behavior though.

When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land you are entering to possess, and drives out before you many nations, and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not allow any of them to live. This is what you are to do with them: break down their alters, smash their sacred stones, cut down their trees and burn them in the fire. For you are a people chosen by the Lord over all others on the face of the earth. Deu 7: 1-2, 5-6

This is a powerful film I would encourage everyone to watch to understand how religion is used to justify horrors/genocide/nation building all over the world in the name of "God":

UNREPENTANT: KEVIN ANNETT AND CANADA'S GENOCIDE (documentary)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133

[Anti Federalist]

And why do Christians conveniently forget that you are suppose to NOT question authority because they were put in place by God? Won't questioning Goerge Bush be a sin against God and won't Christians go to hell?

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:

Paul was a hypocrite, a "Sean Hannity" of the early Christian church.

Had he really believed that to be the case, then he would have allowed the "earthly authorities" to hang him in Damascus, 12 years prior to writing his letters to the Romans, instead of escaping over the wall with the help of fellow disciples, many of whom didn't trust him either.

For me, it's very simple: Resistance to Tyranny is Obedience to God.

And I welcome and encourage everybody else to resist as well, whether you believe in god, no god or twenty gods.

If you resist Tyranny, and really mean it, I've got your back and will cover your six, no matter what you believe.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZWDyMLGIQ

The antagonistic character in Bill Maher's story are the naive, brain washed people of religion. In comparison, Bill the protagonist seems to have been born with some natural ability, no doubt, as he seems to be well educated in the cognizant sciences as he clearly demonstrates in his psychological and sociological terminology.

He definately has the gift of gab, so to speak, which is highly valued in this world. Such modern sophists are hard to discern nowadays; for, it is difficult to determine that Bill Maher lacks content, when Bill Maher is claiming that others lack content.

Yet, it was the Muslim and Catholic religions that developed rational thought after the rediscovery of Aristotle. Out of this newly found rational thought, the Catholic Church then developed natural philosophy -- the precursor of the physical sciences. Later, the physical sciences then gave birth to the cognizant sciences.

In comparison to the physical sciences, the cognizant sciences are highly questionable. In fact, many philosophers of science doubt that the cognizant sciences reduce to unify with the natural sciences as they take on more the characteristics of the arts. Want to create a new psychological and sociological theory? Just pick up a novel and read it as each new story creates its own theory of cognizant science.

Indeed, religion has abandoned mankind, but the cognizant sciences have at least equally abandoned them. As the physical sciences once proved that millions upon millions of transitional species have gone extinct in the past, the cognizant sciences have led modern science in a vain attempt to save every little specie. So, mankind's happiness has become secondary in importance to the saving of every transitional species threatened with extinction.

In conclusion, Bill Maher just looks pretty when he talks. With little effort, one can see that he fails to deliver the necessary content to back up his argument.

[heavenlyboy34]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:

Paul was a hypocrite, a "Sean Hannity" of the early Christian church.

Had he really believed that to be the case, then he would have allowed the "earthly authorities" to hang him in Damascus, 12 years prior to writing his letters to the Romans, instead of escaping over the wall with the help of fellow disciples, many of whom didn't trust him either.

For me, it's very simple: Resistance to Tyranny is Obedience to God.

And I welcome and encourage everybody else to resist as well, whether you believe in god, no god or twenty gods.

If you resist Tyranny, and really mean it, I've got your back and will cover your six, no matter what you believe.

I got your back too, buddy. :)

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:

Paul was a hypocrite, a "Sean Hannity" of the early Christian church.

Had he really believed that to be the case, then he would have allowed the "earthly authorities" to hang him in Damascus, 12 years prior to writing his letters to the Romans, instead of escaping over the wall with the help of fellow disciples, many of whom didn't trust him either.

For me, it's very simple: Resistance to Tyranny is Obedience to God.

And I welcome and encourage everybody else to resist as well, whether you believe in god, no god or twenty gods.

If you resist Tyranny, and really mean it, I've got your back and will cover your six, no matter what you believe.

You speak of a tyranny that you know not of.

[Anti Federalist]

You speak of a tyranny that you know not of.

Oh, I know I'll regret this, but do, enlighten me, oh wise one.

[Ex Post Facto]

We need a religious or spiritual section on these forums.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I got your back too, buddy. :)

Okay. Let's take the time to clear up some fallacies here.

First, Frederick Nietchze didn't literally mean that "God is dead." What he meant was "Immorality is dead." Frederick Nietchze reduced all systems down to basic economies. He warned the people that they should not look at the morality of the overall system when giving their support and trust, but to look at the morality of each individual in the overal system. Why would we trust the morality of a system made up of atheist individuals more than one made up of religious people?

Second, Galileo didn't take on religion. Galileo took on Aristotle who was elevated almost to the level of Christ himself by the Catholic Church. His works were even read like scripture. In fact, the argument made that it was Aristotle who invented the first telescope was made by piecing together parts from his many different works.

To challenge Aristotle, Galileo shrewdly used the writing technique of a Platonic dialogue. In the end, it wasn't Galileo's argument that got him into trouble but his depiction of the Pope as a foolish character in the dialogue.

Let me also add that Darwin had to be a member of the Catholic clergy. There was no such thing as an atheist in those days. No way.

These kinds of religion versus science arguments are like opium.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Oh, I know I'll regret this, but do, enlighten me, oh wise one.

Tyranny makes the bitches supply their ownselves with condoms. When they complain, tyranny tells them to seek employment elsewhere. When they attempt to go elsewhere, then tyranny beats them up.

[Truth Warrior]

The New Idol, From "Thus Spake Zarathustra" by Friedrich Nietzsche

SOMEWHERE there are still peoples and herds, but not with us, my brothers: here there are states.

A state? What is that? Well! open now your ears to me, for now I will speak to you about the death of peoples.

State is the name of the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly it lies; and this lie slips from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people."

It is a lie! It was creators who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

Destroyers are they who lay snares for the many, and call it state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them.

Where there are still peoples, the state is not understood, and is hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs.

This sign I give to you: every people speaks its own language of good and evil, which its neighbor does not understand. It has created its own language of laws and customs.

But the state lies in all the tongues of good and evil; and whatever it says it lies; and whatever it has it has stolen.

Everything in it is false; it bites with stolen teeth, and bites often. It is false down to its bowels.

Confusion of tongues of good and evil; this sign I give you as the sign of the state. This sign points to the will to death! it points to the preachers of death!

All too many are born: for the superfluous the state was created!

See how it entices them to it, the all-too-many! How it swallows and chews and rechews them!

"On earth there is nothing greater than I: I am the governing hand of God."- thus roars the monster. And not only the long-eared and short-sighted fall upon their knees!

Ah! even in your ears, you great souls, it whispers its gloomy lies! Ah! it finds out the rich hearts which willingly squander themselves!

Yes, it finds you too, you conquerors of the old God! You became weary of conflict, and now your weariness serves the new idol!

It would set up heroes and honorable ones around it, the new idol! Gladly it basks in the sunshine of good consciences,- the cold monster!

It will give everything to you, if you worship it, the new idol: thus it buys the lustre of your virtue, and the glance of your proud eyes.

Through you it seeks to seduce the all-too-many! Yes, a hellish artifice has been created here, a death-horse jingling with the trappings of divine honors!

Yes, a dying for many has been created here, which glorifies itself as life: verily, a great service to all preachers of death!

The state, I call it, where all drink poison, the good and the bad: the state, where all lose themselves, the good and the bad: the state, where the slow suicide of all- is called "life."

Behold the superfluous! They steal the works of the creators and the treasures of the wise.
Education, they call their theft- and everything becomes sickness and trouble to them!

Behold the superfluous! They are always sick; they vomit their bile and call it a newspaper. They devour each other and cannot even digest themselves.

Behold the superfluous! They acquire wealth and become the poorer for it.

They seek power, and the lever of power, much money- these impotent ones!

See them clamber, these nimble apes! They clamber over one another, and thus pull each other into the mud and the abyss.

They all strive for the throne: this is their madness- as if happiness sat on the throne! Often filth sits on the throne.- and often also the throne on filth.

Madmen they all seem to me, and clambering apes, and too eager. Foul smells their idol to me, the cold monster: foul they all smell to me, these idolaters.

My brothers, will you suffocate in the fumes of their maws and appetites! Better to break the windows and jump into the open air!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the idolatry of the superfluous!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the steam of these human sacrifices!

The earth is yet free for great souls. There are still many empty sites for the lonesome and the twosome, surrounded by the fragrance of tranquil seas.

A free life is yet possible for great souls. He who possesses little is that much less possessed: blessed be a little poverty!

There, where the state ends- there only begins the man who is not superfluous: there begins the song of the necessary, the single and irreplaceable melody.

There, where the state ends- look there, my brothers! Do you not see it, the rainbow and the bridges of the Superman?

Thus spoke Zarathustra.

[heavenlyboy34]

Nice! Thankee, sensei. Sections of this are quoted by Von Dietrich (the shrewd, capitalist German whose memoirs show the U.S. president's incompetence) in Irving Wallace's "The Plot". ;)


The New Idol, From "Thus Spake Zarathustra" by Friedrich Nietzsche

SOMEWHERE there are still peoples and herds, but not with us, my brothers: here there are states.

A state? What is that? Well! open now your ears to me, for now I will speak to you about the death of peoples.

State is the name of the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly it lies; and this lie slips from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people."

It is a lie! It was creators who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

Destroyers are they who lay snares for the many, and call it state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them.

Where there are still peoples, the state is not understood, and is hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs.

This sign I give to you: every people speaks its own language of good and evil, which its neighbor does not understand. It has created its own language of laws and customs.

But the state lies in all the tongues of good and evil; and whatever it says it lies; and whatever it has it has stolen.

Everything in it is false; it bites with stolen teeth, and bites often. It is false down to its bowels.

Confusion of tongues of good and evil; this sign I give you as the sign of the state. This sign points to the will to death! it points to the preachers of death!

All too many are born: for the superfluous the state was created!

See how it entices them to it, the all-too-many! How it swallows and chews and rechews them!

"On earth there is nothing greater than I: I am the governing hand of God."- thus roars the monster. And not only the long-eared and short-sighted fall upon their knees!

Ah! even in your ears, you great souls, it whispers its gloomy lies! Ah! it finds out the rich hearts which willingly squander themselves!

Yes, it finds you too, you conquerors of the old God! You became weary of conflict, and now your weariness serves the new idol!

It would set up heroes and honorable ones around it, the new idol! Gladly it basks in the sunshine of good consciences,- the cold monster!

It will give everything to you, if you worship it, the new idol: thus it buys the lustre of your virtue, and the glance of your proud eyes.

Through you it seeks to seduce the all-too-many! Yes, a hellish artifice has been created here, a death-horse jingling with the trappings of divine honors!

Yes, a dying for many has been created here, which glorifies itself as life: verily, a great service to all preachers of death!

The state, I call it, where all drink poison, the good and the bad: the state, where all lose themselves, the good and the bad: the state, where the slow suicide of all- is called "life."

Behold the superfluous! They steal the works of the creators and the treasures of the wise.
Education, they call their theft- and everything becomes sickness and trouble to them!

Behold the superfluous! They are always sick; they vomit their bile and call it a newspaper. They devour each other and cannot even digest themselves.

Behold the superfluous! They acquire wealth and become the poorer for it.

They seek power, and the lever of power, much money- these impotent ones!

See them clamber, these nimble apes! They clamber over one another, and thus pull each other into the mud and the abyss.

They all strive for the throne: this is their madness- as if happiness sat on the throne! Often filth sits on the throne.- and often also the throne on filth.

Madmen they all seem to me, and clambering apes, and too eager. Foul smells their idol to me, the cold monster: foul they all smell to me, these idolaters.

My brothers, will you suffocate in the fumes of their maws and appetites! Better to break the windows and jump into the open air!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the idolatry of the superfluous!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the steam of these human sacrifices!

The earth is yet free for great souls. There are still many empty sites for the lonesome and the twosome, surrounded by the fragrance of tranquil seas.

A free life is yet possible for great souls. He who possesses little is that much less possessed: blessed be a little poverty!

There, where the state ends- there only begins the man who is not superfluous: there begins the song of the necessary, the single and irreplaceable melody.

There, where the state ends- look there, my brothers! Do you not see it, the rainbow and the bridges of the Superman?

Thus spoke Zarathustra.

[Anti Federalist]

Tyranny makes the bitches supply their ownselves with condoms. When they complain, tyranny tells them to seek employment elsewhere. When they attempt to go elsewhere, then tyranny beats them up.

Yup, I regretted it...:rolleyes:

Uncle, you give me mental indigestion.

I'll address this later, when chores are not calling...

[Truth Warrior]

Nice! Thankee, sensei. Sections of this are quoted by Von Dietrich (the shrewd, capitalist German whose memoirs show the U.S. president's incompetence) in Irving Wallace's "The Plot". ;)

My pure pleasure, grasshoppa. ;) :D

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

The New Idol, From "Thus Spake Zarathustra" by Friedrich Nietzsche

SOMEWHERE there are still peoples and herds, but not with us, my brothers: here there are states.

A state? What is that? Well! open now your ears to me, for now I will speak to you about the death of peoples.

State is the name of the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly it lies; and this lie slips from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people."

It is a lie! It was creators who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

Destroyers are they who lay snares for the many, and call it state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them.

Where there are still peoples, the state is not understood, and is hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs.

This sign I give to you: every people speaks its own language of good and evil, which its neighbor does not understand. It has created its own language of laws and customs.

But the state lies in all the tongues of good and evil; and whatever it says it lies; and whatever it has it has stolen.

Everything in it is false; it bites with stolen teeth, and bites often. It is false down to its bowels.

Confusion of tongues of good and evil; this sign I give you as the sign of the state. This sign points to the will to death! it points to the preachers of death!

All too many are born: for the superfluous the state was created!

See how it entices them to it, the all-too-many! How it swallows and chews and rechews them!

"On earth there is nothing greater than I: I am the governing hand of God."- thus roars the monster. And not only the long-eared and short-sighted fall upon their knees!

Ah! even in your ears, you great souls, it whispers its gloomy lies! Ah! it finds out the rich hearts which willingly squander themselves!

Yes, it finds you too, you conquerors of the old God! You became weary of conflict, and now your weariness serves the new idol!

It would set up heroes and honorable ones around it, the new idol! Gladly it basks in the sunshine of good consciences,- the cold monster!

It will give everything to you, if you worship it, the new idol: thus it buys the lustre of your virtue, and the glance of your proud eyes.

Through you it seeks to seduce the all-too-many! Yes, a hellish artifice has been created here, a death-horse jingling with the trappings of divine honors!

Yes, a dying for many has been created here, which glorifies itself as life: verily, a great service to all preachers of death!

The state, I call it, where all drink poison, the good and the bad: the state, where all lose themselves, the good and the bad: the state, where the slow suicide of all- is called "life."

Behold the superfluous! They steal the works of the creators and the treasures of the wise.
Education, they call their theft- and everything becomes sickness and trouble to them!

Behold the superfluous! They are always sick; they vomit their bile and call it a newspaper. They devour each other and cannot even digest themselves.

Behold the superfluous! They acquire wealth and become the poorer for it.

They seek power, and the lever of power, much money- these impotent ones!

See them clamber, these nimble apes! They clamber over one another, and thus pull each other into the mud and the abyss.

They all strive for the throne: this is their madness- as if happiness sat on the throne! Often filth sits on the throne.- and often also the throne on filth.

Madmen they all seem to me, and clambering apes, and too eager. Foul smells their idol to me, the cold monster: foul they all smell to me, these idolaters.

My brothers, will you suffocate in the fumes of their maws and appetites! Better to break the windows and jump into the open air!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the idolatry of the superfluous!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the steam of these human sacrifices!

The earth is yet free for great souls. There are still many empty sites for the lonesome and the twosome, surrounded by the fragrance of tranquil seas.

A free life is yet possible for great souls. He who possesses little is that much less possessed: blessed be a little poverty!

There, where the state ends- there only begins the man who is not superfluous: there begins the song of the necessary, the single and irreplaceable melody.

There, where the state ends- look there, my brothers! Do you not see it, the rainbow and the bridges of the Superman?

Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Once again, you post without comment. "Superman" meant something like "overcomer." The Will to grasp power. The morality of the state didn't originate with Christ but with the ancient Greeks. Even Christ mentioned this.

The mistake, according to Friedrich Nietzsche, is how we use Christian morality in policing the state, when the seeds establishing state morality were planted in ancient Greece by Socrates.

The state was a filthiness that Christ couldn't touch. While Christ could touch other Jews as His own family, he could not touch the Gentile nations. He could only speak to them as if they were dogs. This is where the Holy Gospel originated. Christ healed the Jews by touch, this represented the law, while He healed the Gentiles by His Word, this represented the Gospel.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Yup, I regretted it...:rolleyes:

Uncle, you give me mental indigestion.

I'll address this later, when chores are not calling...

And, as I guessed correctly, you don't know of the tyranny that you speak.

[Truth Warrior]

Once again, you post without comment. "Superman" meant something like "overcomer." The Will to grasp power. The morality of the state didn't originate with Christ but with the ancient Greeks. Even Christ mentioned this.

The mistake, according to Friedrich Nietzsche, is how we use Christian morality in policing the state, when the seeds establishing state morality were planted in ancient Greece by Socrates.

The state was a filthiness that Christ couldn't touch. While Christ could touch other Jews as His own family, he could not touch the Gentile nations. He could only speak to them as if they were dogs. This is where the Holy Gospel originated. Christ healed the Jews by touch, this represented the law, while He healed the Gentiles by His Word, this represented the Gospel.

I post what I post, WITHOUT your permission. Get used to it. :rolleyes: No comment is required, the piece speaks for itself.<IMHO> :D

Teach your grandmother how to suck eggs. :p :rolleyes:

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be – a Christian." ~ Mark Twain
American enough for ya? :D

[PatriotOne]

Thanks for the link, I've heard mention of this, but never looked into it too deeply.

I'll look it over.

Based on just your quick summary, I'll still stand by my original comment.

Who gave "police state" powers to the church to carry out these atrocities?

Same applies to the horrors of the Inquisitions. The church had to be backed by the governments of that day, or intertwined with them.

Thus the reason for: "Congress shall make no law...".

Yes, the state gave powers to the church in Canada. The State uses religion as just another weapon against the people. The original mind control program prior to TV. Die for your country...die for your God. Same diff.

India, on the verge of war, is being told the New World Order was authorized by Jesus.

Governor, Imphal Archbishop, others send message of peace and brotherhood on Christmas

India

The Imphal Free Press

IMPHAL, Dec 24: The Governor Gurbachan Jagat in a message has sent his greetings to the people of Manipur, specially the Christians of the state, on the auspicious and joyous occasion of Christmas.

Observing that Lord Jesus came to this world to build a new world order based on peace, justice and equality of mankind, the Governor said that his message of love, mercy, forgiveness, compassion, benevolence and sacrifice had become more important in the present situation when the atmosphere in society was marred by bickerings, bitterness and social tensions.

While celebrating Jesus` birth, while paying our obeisances to the apostle of peace, we should rededicate ourselves to the ideals, principles and eternal values espoused by him, the Governor said.

While wishing the people of Manipur a merry Christmas, the Governor prayed that let the principles and messages of Jesus guide mankind to build a prosperous society and a peaceful world.

Rest here:

http://www.kanglaonline.com/index.ph...44614&typeid=1

[heavenlyboy34]

I post what I post, WITHOUT your permission. Get used to it. :rolleyes: No comment is required, the piece speaks for itself.<IMHO> :D

Teach your grandmother how to suck eggs. :p :rolleyes:

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be – a Christian." ~ Mark Twain
American enough for ya? :D

I LMAO'ed;):D

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I post what I post, WITHOUT your permission. Get used to it. :rolleyes: No comment is required, the piece speaks for itself.<IMHO> :D

Teach your grandmother how to suck eggs. :p :rolleyes:

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be – a Christian." ~ Mark Twain

The piece does not speak for itself. Contrary to popular belief, we don't understand each other just because we speak a common language. All communication requires a degree of interpretation. Besides, how do we know that you even read it? How do we know that you understand it?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Yes, the state gave powers to the church in Canada. The State uses religion as just another weapon against the people. The original mind control program prior to TV. Die for your country...die for your God. Same diff.

India, on the verge of war, is being told the New World Order was authorized by Jesus.

Governor, Imphal Archbishop, others send message of peace and brotherhood on Christmas

India

The Imphal Free Press

IMPHAL, Dec 24: The Governor Gurbachan Jagat in a message has sent his greetings to the people of Manipur, specially the Christians of the state, on the auspicious and joyous occasion of Christmas.

Observing that Lord Jesus came to this world to build a new world order based on peace, justice and equality of mankind, the Governor said that his message of love, mercy, forgiveness, compassion, benevolence and sacrifice had become more important in the present situation when the atmosphere in society was marred by bickerings, bitterness and social tensions.

While celebrating Jesus` birth, while paying our obeisances to the apostle of peace, we should rededicate ourselves to the ideals, principles and eternal values espoused by him, the Governor said.

While wishing the people of Manipur a merry Christmas, the Governor prayed that let the principles and messages of Jesus guide mankind to build a prosperous society and a peaceful world.

Rest here:

http://www.kanglaonline.com/index.ph...44614&typeid=1

While many proclaimed Jesus to be an almighty "Son of God," He could only claim Himself to be a menial "Son of man." This meant that He considered Himself even less than worthless, not just as a faceless member of the multitudes but as their worthless offspring.

[Truth Warrior]

The piece does not speak for itself. Contrary to popular belief, we don't understand each other just because we speak a common language. All communication requires a degree of interpretation. Besides, how do we know that you even read it? How do we know that you understand it? I believe that your standard point of view is more than adequately addressed by the Nietzsche post itself.< IMHO > :)

Read it again. ;) It ain't THAT tough.

I have NOTHING to prove to you. So I guess that just makes your "how do we knows?" simply ...................... "superfluous". :D

[Flash]

I'm not a Christian but I hate how people like Bill Maher and other pompous Hollywood types want people to give up religion altogether. If people feel good and benefit from believing in a god or gods then what is the problem? Let them have your belief.

By the way I find it funny how Bill Maher attacked Christianity and Islam in this movie yet didn't even touch Judaism (except for one Anti-Zionist Jew who was portrayed as 'crazy')

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I believe that your standard point of view is more than adequately addressed by the Nietzsche post itself.< IMHO > :)

Read it again. ;) It ain't THAT tough.

I have NOTHING to prove to you. So I guess that just makes your "how do we knows?" simply ...................... "superfluous". :D

Certainly Nietzsche wasn't writing to the 5% who are able to understand him because it wasn't his burden to further perpetuate their deception over the masses.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I'm not a Christian but I hate how people like Bill Maher and other pompous Hollywood types want people to give up religion altogether. If people feel good and benefit from believing in a god or gods then what is the problem? Let them have your belief.

By the way I find it funny how Bill Maher attacked Christianity and Islam in this movie yet didn't even touch Judaism (except for one Anti-Zionist Jew who was portrayed as 'crazy')

There is a difference between the people who worship the ritual legal precedents established by the Pope and the Vatican and those people who worship in faith the Holy Word in the Bible. Bill Maher, the protagonist, wraps up every Christian as a "religious" antagonist.

Like I said, the protagonist in a story is only as sophisticated as the antagonist who challenges him or her. This means Bill Maher is quite shallow.

[Theocrat]

I agree with Bill Maher on this one. False religions do need to die, and that includes the most dangerous one of them all, secular humanism. :)

[Truth Warrior]

Certainly Nietzsche wasn't writing to the 5% who are able to understand him because it wasn't his burden to further perpetuate their deception over the masses. Aren't you being just a bit TOO much of an "elitist" ( wannabe ) there? Have you been "chosen" and appointed HIGH PRIEST? If so, by whose authority, if I may ask?

Perhaps some additional research, prayer, quality introspection and deep meditation is called for. ;)

Just intended as a constructive hope and thought. :D

[jkr]

i couldnt disagree more to this premiss

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Aren't you being just a bit TOO much of an "elitist" ( wannabe ) there? Have you been "chosen" and appointed HIGH PRIEST? If so, by whose authority, if I may ask?

Perhaps some additional research, prayer, quality introspection and deep meditation is called for. ;)

Just intended as a constructive hope and thought. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspectivism

While science uses rational thought, it doesn't narrow that thought to what is in the best interest of mankind. In order to do what is universal and existential in regards to mankind's contentment, that which is in his and her best interest, we need to replace the process of rational thought with Nietzsche's perspectivism instead. The perspective always changes depending on what it will take to dispense contentment to man.
In other words, contentment always takes precedence over responsibility. We are responsible because being so makes us happy and not the other way around. This type of thinking isn't logical though. But logic often times leads mankind to do what is not in his and her best interest.

[Truth Warrior]

I agree with Bill Maher on this one. False religions do need to die, and that includes the most dangerous one of them all, secular humanism. :) Are there ANY "Christians" ( in name only ) in that "need to die" collective also? If so, how are they to be recognized and distinguished from the "REAL" ones? ;)

How about UN-secular humanism? ( Not THE Luciferian United Nations :p )

Thanks! :)


( "By their fruits, ye shall know them." )

[Theocrat]

Are there ANY "Christians" ( in name only ) in that "need to die" collective also? If so, how are they to be recognized and distinguished from the "REAL" ones? ;)

How about UN-secular humanism? ( Not THE Luciferian United Nations :p )

Thanks! :)


( "By their fruits, ye shall know them." )

I never said secular humanists need to die. I said secular humanism needs to die. ;)

[Truth Warrior]

I never said secular humanists need to die. I said secular humanism needs to die. ;)

One down kinda, because what's an "-ism", aside from the people? :confused:

Three left ( the most important ones < IMHO > ) untouched. :(

Try again?

Thanks! :)

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Are there ANY "Christians" ( in name only ) in that "need to die" collective also? If so, how are they to be recognized and distinguished from the "REAL" ones? ;)

How about UN-secular humanism? ( Not THE Luciferian United Nations :p )

Thanks! :)


( "By their fruits, ye shall know them." )

Many believe that Christianity got started by converted prostitutes. These prostitutes, those charged with the worthless task of disposing of the dead, were the first ones Christ appeared to after his resurrection. He then charged them with bringing in the Apostles into Christ's body. So, Christ's Gospel was spoken to these worthless members first and not the Disciples. The former Disciples, those who were scattered like sheep, were already deemed Apostles because they were Jewish and saved by Christ's touch. Christ did not preach the Gospel to the Disciples while with them in the flesh because He was forbidden to. So, Jesus only spoke of the law and the old testament when with them.
So, after Christ's crucifixion, seven worthless women incorporated twelve important Apostles into the body of Christ to represent His authority. These Apostle's then later incorporated seven worthless Deacons to take care of trivial tasks.
Now, this new authority of Deacons had never been allowed in the Jewish temples. Stephen was such an unqualified person in the eyes of the religious Jews that he was hated even before he began to open his mouth to preach. As Stephen got torn to pieces as a result, Christ's body also got torn apart and scattered. As the people were scattered and persecuated, they spoke of the death of Stephen (This was preaching the gospel). Next, Philliip, another worthless Deacon, was sent to speak to a Eunoch. This Eunoch, though quite important, so doubted his own authority that he felt that he needed a brother to explain the Word of God to him. But Phillip preached to him otherwise.
Ultimately, the Apostle Paul was raised as the ultimate unqualified official. Though the most able bodied of the Jews, he was made to be taught by a simpleton, made to take on the role of a chosen vessel and made to proclaim himself an abortion. All this when he was never with Christ in the flesh.
Out from this effort didn't come a mighty religion but a cult. It called itself "The way" and was made up of mostly worthless slave members who met under overturned fishing vessels. Fishing denotes a time of great tribulation because the impoverished can't very well find cattle to eat during such distress.
The mighty religion of Christianity was created to give Emperor Constantine a way of avoiding converting to the existing faith of worthless members. This allowed him to control it.
Thus, as Kings and Queens served under the Emperor in the old Roman Empire, modern Kings and Queens would later serve under the Pope as the new Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.

[Theocrat]

One down kinda, because what's an "-ism", aside from the people? :confused:

Three left ( the most important ones < IMHO > ) untouched. :(

Try again?

Thanks! :)

Secular humanism, as a religious philosophy, needs to be destroyed because of its negative implications and influences upon our public schools, civil government institutions, media, churches, families, individuals, and society as a whole. That means we need to be educated about what secular humanism is and how it infects our world. Once we realize its ills and vices upon the minds of adults and children alike, we can eradicate it as a means to achieve and advance a better world for ourselves and our posterity. That is what I'm talking about.

[heavenlyboy34]

Secular humanism, as a religious philosophy, needs to be destroyed because of its negative implications and influences upon our public schools, civil government institutions, media, churches, families, individuals, and society as a whole. That means we need to be educated about what secular humanism is and how it infects our world. Once we realize its ills and vices upon the minds of adults and children alike, we can eradicate it as a means to achieve and advance a better world for ourselves and our posterity. That is what I'm talking about.

I don't think Yeshua would advise the aggressive route. That brings you down to "their" level. Just be a teacher for your kids and role model for everyone, and the rest will take care of itself. (JMHO) ttyl.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Secular humanism, as a religious philosophy, needs to be destroyed because of its negative implications and influences upon our public schools, civil government institutions, media, churches, families, individuals, and society as a whole. That means we need to be educated about what secular humanism is and how it infects our world. Once we realize its ills and vices upon the minds of adults and children alike, we can eradicate it as a means to achieve and advance a better world for ourselves and our posterity. That is what I'm talking about.

We certainly don't need to worry about homosexuality being fruitful. Likewise, sinfulness should take care of itself.

[LibertyEagle]

For those of you espousing that religion must die, I ask you to please go research the Humanist Manifesto I, II and III. They were largely written by socialists for the sole purpose of taking our country away from our biblical foundation. Because then, we would be easier to conquer. This permeated our schools, our government, everywhere. Don't believe me... go research it yourself.

[Truth Warrior]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspectivism

While science uses rational thought, it doesn't narrow that thought to what is in the best interest of mankind. In order to do what is universal and existential in regards to mankind's contentment, that which is in his and her best interest, we need to replace the process of rational thought with Nietzsche's perspectivism instead. The perspective always changes depending on what it will take to dispense contentment to man.
In other words, contentment always takes precedence over responsibility. We are responsible because being so makes us happy and not the other way around. This type of thinking isn't logical though. But logic often times leads mankind to do what is not in his and her best interest.

I'm not any too concerned about "mankind's" ( abstraction :rolleyes: ) contentment, "mankind" can choose, decide and fend for itself, IF abstractions COULD do ANY of those things, which they can't. :p

I want "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" and the end of barbarism before it ends our species, for MY contentment. I'm working towards those ends.

Who judges and decides contentment for "mankind"? BTW, it's NOT you, NOR YOUR STATIST "ELITES".< IMHO > :p :rolleyes:

[Anti Federalist]

And, as I guessed correctly, you don't know of the tyranny that you speak.

Uncle, I don't need one of your obtuse and obscure analogies to know what tyranny I speak of.

When cops smash a man's face into the cement, break two teeth out in the process, for no reason, then charge him with assaulting them and then lie about it under oath, in court, that is a cobblestone on the road to tyranny.

This, applied to all levels of government, coupled with a disregard for the supreme law of the land, is a highway to tyranny.

Taken to it's logical and ultimate end, it is a gulag, a killing field, a shower with Zyklon B spouts.

I'm a relatively simple man Uncle, a high school drop out at 16, who went to sea for living and never looked back. I do not claim to have a degree in philosophy nor do I care to argue the finer points of German Realism or American Transcendentalism, because I don't really find it germane to crisis we are facing.

I see an in-your-face tyranny cropping up right before our eyes, and here we sit, arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Worthless...

[heavenlyboy34]

I not any too concerned about "mankind's" ( abstraction :rolleyes: ) contentment, "mankind" can choose, decide and fend for itself, IF abstractions COULD do ANY of those things, which they can't. :p

I want "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" and the end of barbarism before it ends our species, for MY contentment. I'm working towards those ends.

Who judges and decides contentment for "mankind"? BTW, it's NOT you, NOR YOUR STATIST "ELITES".< IMHO > :p :rolleyes:

The individual judges his own desired level of contentment and how to achieve it. Correct, sensei? :)

[Truth Warrior]

Secular humanism, as a religious philosophy, needs to be destroyed because of its negative implications and influences upon our public schools, civil government institutions, media, churches, families, individuals, and society as a whole. That means we need to be educated about what secular humanism is and how it infects our world. Once we realize its ills and vices upon the minds of adults and children alike, we can eradicate it as a means to achieve and advance a better world for ourselves and our posterity. That is what I'm talking about. I know and understand what you are talking about. No further explanation of that is required, for me.<IMHO> "GOT IT". ;)

How about the OTHER THREE QUESTIONS, NOW?

Thanks! :)

[Truth Warrior]

The individual judges his own desired level of contentment and how to achieve it. Correct, sensei? :)

Correct, grasshoppa. ( Unless he's a disabled collectivist "sheeple-bot". :( ) Very good!< IMHO > :)

[heavenlyboy34]

Correct, grasshoppa. ( Unless he's a collectivist "sheeple-bot". :( ) Very good!< IMHO > :)

Thanks! I've been studying the materials you gave me. :D

[asimplegirl]

Thank ya'll for explaining stuff to me... now why are why feeding the maniacal monkeys again? Seems that some people cannot be taught any differently than they have already been indoctrinated- this is why hate will forever live.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I not any too concerned about "mankind's" ( abstraction :rolleyes: ) contentment, "mankind" can choose, decide and fend for itself, IF abstractions COULD do ANY of those things, which they can't. :p

I want "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" and the end of barbarism before it ends our species, for MY contentment. I'm working towards those ends.

Who judges and decides contentment for "mankind"? BTW, it's NOT you, NOR YOUR STATIST "ELITES".< IMHO > :p :rolleyes:

Suit yourself. Why do you bother to post in here? Why not just sit back, smoke your cigars and sip your brandy? Why bother to even think?

[PatriotOne]

For those of you espousing that religion must die, I ask you to please go research the Humanist Manifesto I, II and III. They were largely written by socialists for the sole purpose of taking our country away from our biblical foundation. Because then, we would be easier to conquer. This permeated our schools, our government, everywhere. Don't believe me... go research it yourself.

Why would not believing in God make us easier to conquer? There's more non-Christians in this movement than Christians as far as I can tell. Who do you suppose the bulk of christians voted for? Anti-abortion McCain perhaps?

[Deborah K]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZWDyMLGIQ


The destruction of all religion is part of the NWO plan. It appears you've bought right into it.

[Truth Warrior]

Suit yourself. Why do you bother to post in here? Why not just sit back, smoke your cigars and sip your brandy? Why bother to even think?

I usually do. It's a choice.

A) Because a free society is created one by one. ( There's folks here. )

B) I'm fairly good at it.<IMHO> ( Lot's of practice, over DECADES )

C) It keeps the neurons fit and tuned up.

D) It's fun. :D

E) Etc.

;) :)

And you, why not just sit back and enjoy your catfish and peanut butter, and pontificate on your erudition, theories and revelations aloud to the winds, while catching the poor stupid catfish? :rolleyes:

[heavenlyboy34]

The destruction of all religion is part of the NWO plan. It appears you've bought right into it.

If I know the NWO, they have a strategy that allows them to win either way-either eliminate religion or control the minds of the masses via religion. :(

[PatriotOne]

The destruction of all religion is part of the NWO plan. It appears you've bought right into it.

No. Why would they give up religion to control people when it has worked so well for thousands of years? One World Religion is their plan...not "no religion".

Tony Blair Faith Foundation

http://tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/

Looks like they plan to merge all the major incoherant religions into one big one:

Projects

In the first three years of the Foundation, priority will be given to encouraging inter-faith initiatives to tackle global poverty and to improve through education the understanding of the great religions. The Foundation will focus on:


Improving and expanding educational material for children about faith and the shared values of the world's major religions. We will produce and support the production of high-quality web-based and inter-active material as well as books and magazines. Learn more
Working with some of the world's most respected scholars to examine the links between religion, politics and economics in the 21st Century. As a first step, the Foundation and Yale University are partners in an initiative that will include developing a high quality academic course, research opportunities and conferences. Materials will be widely disseminated for free on the internet. Learn more
Supporting the Coexist Foundation in developing a world-class centre of education and dialogue in London to improve understanding of the shared roots, tradition and values of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Learn more
Providing support and encouragement to individuals and groups countering extremism within their faiths.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

No. Why would they give up religion to control people when it has worked so well for thousands of years? One World Religion is their plan...not "no religion".

Tony Blair Faith Foundation

http://tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/

Looks like they plan to merge all the major incoherant religions into one big oneYep. Also notice Obama talking about streamlining religious faith into something that can "unify" the entire nation. You guys are hacking at the wrong root.

[LibertyEagle]

Humanism is a religion, you know.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

humanism rejects transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine origin. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and cultural problems cannot be parochial.
..

[LibertyEagle]

The Humanist Manifesto was written by a pack of socialists. For those of you buying into it, you should really research it some more.

[PatriotOne]

The Humanist Manifesto was written by a pack of socialists. For those of you buying into it, you should really research it some more.

Where's the Christians LE? This nation is supposedly made up of 50% Christians. WHERE ARE THEY? WHO DID THEY VOTE FOR? We are being destroyed from within and I don't see the largest coalition doing a damn thing. WHO did these people with a direct line to God vote for? Where's the rabble rousing? Or are they just waiting to be raptured? Where's the powerful Christian leaders? Which one of these powerful Christian Leaders, with a direct line to God, endorsed Ron Paul? Who's speaking out against the NWO? Or are they perhaps working WITH the Government? Ya know....like being trained to help the Gov during martial law and plan on preaching obediance to our Gov using Romans 13.

If religion is the way to our salvation then where the fuck are they? Oh yeah.....on Wall Street praying for the Golden Calf :rolleyes:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/bullprayer2.jpg

[LibertyEagle]

PatriotOne, I think you already know that I don't agree with the Christians who have supported neoconservatism. That doesn't mean that Christianity is horrible. What it means is that some have been propagandized and brainwashed just like those who blame Christians for all ills, instead of the people who engineered the brainwashing. They are the same people who are running off with our country, while our sights are on the wrong target and they are hitting us from all directions.

Tell me PatriotOne, when you come at Christians with such venom, do you ever stop for a minute and realize that Ron Paul is a Christian?

[asimplegirl]

I never heard ANY venom..I think you are reading too much into it.

He asked a question we all should be asking.... Where are we? What are we doing? If we are so good and just, why aren't we doing SOMETHING? I mean besides worrying about making abortion illegal and not allowing gays to marry.... What ARE we doing?

[Anti Federalist]

PatriotOne, I think you already know that I don't agree with the Christians who have supported neoconservatism. That doesn't mean that Christianity is horrible. What it means is that some have been propagandized and brainwashed just like those who blame Christians for all ills, instead of the people who engineered the brainwashing. They are the same people who are running off with our country, while our sites are on the wrong target and they are hitting us from all directions.

Tell me PatriotOne, when you come at Christians with such venom, do you ever stop for a minute and realize that Ron Paul is a Christian?

Yes, and the "Christians" booed him at the "Values Voters" debate for daring to name the Prince of Peace and suggesting what he would think of things.

As a "spiritual Christian", I am pretty disgusted by what I see coming out of the church these days.

Seems to be little more than Tony Robbins with a bible or insane rantings of the likes of Parsley or Hagee.

David J. Smith and Chuck Baldwin excepted.

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, I hear you AF. I am likewise disgusted.

[Fox McCloud]

Y'all have to realize not all Christians are like your stereo-typical ultra social-conservative who wants to ban anything immoral and impose their views on others. I won't deny, for one minute, that there are Christians like that (sometimes I question if these people are truly believers and followers of Christ though, at times)....there's plenty out there who MORE than understand Libertarianism and are more than content to leave other people alone...as a matter of fact, some of the wisest people I've met who are Christians are Libertarians/paleo-conservatives, as they came to the conclusion it was the only thing that was compatible.

Christians biggest problems, IMHO is that they want to be led by man and man's interpretation of the Bible, and not be led by, walk in, and taught by the Holy Spirit.....if a Christian isn't doing that, goodness knows what path he'll walk down.

I'd kindly ask though that not all Christians be lumped together as one collective group...I find it distasteful and, dare I say, collectivistic...as we're all individuals......and as others have said, have you considered that Ron Paul, himself, is a believer in Christ? The man is a perfect example of how being a follower of Christ and and not imposing your beliefs on others and holding Libertarian ideologies are perfectly and sensically compatible.

[driller80545]

blah, blah, blah

[Truth Warrior]

Where's the Christians LE? This nation is supposedly made up of 50% Christians. WHERE ARE THEY? WHO DID THEY VOTE FOR? We are being destroyed from within and I don't see the largest coalition doing a damn thing. WHO did these people with a direct line to God vote for? Where's the rabble rousing? Or are they just waiting to be raptured? Where's the powerful Christian leaders? Which one of these powerful Christian Leaders, with a direct line to God, endorsed Ron Paul? Who's speaking out against the NWO? Or are they perhaps working WITH the Government? Ya know....like being trained to help the Gov during martial law and plan on preaching obediance to our Gov using Romans 13.

If religion is the way to our salvation then where the fuck are they? Oh yeah.....on Wall Street praying for the Golden Calf :rolleyes:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/bullprayer2.jpg

Well said, KUDOS!!! :D

[LibertyEagle]

Well said, KUDOS!!! :D

You just agreed with a collectivistic argument. Interesting. lol

By the way, there were a variety of Christians who supported Ron Paul. Apparently you did not notice.

[Truth Warrior]

You just agreed with a collectivistic argument. Interesting. lol

By the way, there were a variety of Christians who supported Ron Paul. Apparently you did not notice. I believe that you've merely CHOSEN to MISS the POINT of the PatriotOne post. Congratulations. :(

[LibertyEagle]

I believe that you've merely CHOSEN to MISS the POINT of the PatriotOne post. Congratulations. :(

Nope. Don't think so, but thanks for participating. :)

[Truth Warrior]

Nope. Don't think so, but thanks for participating. :) I know you don't. THAT'S the problem. :( Thanks for NOT.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[heavenlyboy34]

Does someone have empirical evidence disproving the existence of a God or supreme being that religions are often based on?

I fail to see how an argument such as religion needs to be destroyed can be the prevailing argument of the day without the evidence.


Maybe I missed something in the thread but I was under the impression Congress shall make no law... and leaving the matter to personal choice was the best approach

The method of "proof" we use in the west is designed to prove existence. Non-existence occurs when proof of existence is lacking. (last time I took a science class...if it's different now, let me know)

[Truth Warrior]

Does someone have empirical evidence disproving the existence of a God or supreme being that religions are often based on?

I fail to see how an argument such as religion needs to be destroyed can be the prevailing argument of the day without the evidence.


Maybe I missed something in the thread but I was under the impression Congress shall make no law... and leaving the matter to personal choice was the best approach Not what you requested, but just my 2 cents, FWIW. ;) Religions are "human" institutions.

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan! The proper study of mankind is Man."

[PatriotOne]

As a "spiritual Christian", I am pretty disgusted by what I see coming out of the church these days.

Seems to be little more than Tony Robbins with a bible or insane rantings of the likes of Parsley or Hagee.

Made me think of Joel Osteen (voted top most influencial Christian in America by Christians). Believes that wealth and power are rewards for pious Christians. Thinks Barrack Obama is GREAT.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/1Joel20Osteen2.jpg

George Bush was voted No. 11.

http://www.thechurchreport.com/mag_article.php?mid=875&mname=January

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[inibo]

btw...religion is not spirituality.

qft+

[Truth Warrior]

[quote=Truth Warrior;1883549]Not what you requested, but just my 2 cents, FWIW. ;) Religions are "human" institutions.


If they were anything other than human, I personally might have more answers than questions :). Religionists, in general, tend to always attempt to make it about God, but in REALITY it's always and only about THEM.<IMHO> ;)

Can an amoeba understand and comprehend a galaxy? :)

[heavenlyboy34]

[quote=Live_Free_Or_Die;1883576] Religionists tend to always attempt to make it about God, but in REALITY it's always and only about THEM.<IMHO> ;)

Can an amoeba understand and comprehend a galaxy? :)

qft, sensei :D

[PatriotOne]

PatriotOne, I think you already know that I don't agree with the Christians who have supported neoconservatism. That doesn't mean that Christianity is horrible. What it means is that some have been propagandized and brainwashed just like those who blame Christians for all ills, instead of the people who engineered the brainwashing. They are the same people who are running off with our country, while our sights are on the wrong target and they are hitting us from all directions.

Tell me PatriotOne, when you come at Christians with such venom, do you ever stop for a minute and realize that Ron Paul is a Christian?

You did miss my point LE. For people who have been enlightened and walk in the shadow of God, I would expect a little more from them than us ignorant heathens. Why isn't your God guiding the Christian's and their leaders? Or could it be they don't have any more insight into right and wrong than the rest of us and they just belong to a club that claims to?

Sure, I think about RP being a Christian. But I have never claimed RP to be infallable either....I am not a lemming. He's just the best of the fallible people in spite of his Christianity :p


What it means is that some have been propagandized and brainwashed just like those who blame Christians for all ills, instead of the people who engineered the brainwashing.

I don't blame Christians for all the ills but they (and religion in general) are a HUGE part of the problem. One doesn't need to be swayed by anti-christian propaganda when the writings and actions of the religion speak for themselves. YOUR bible condones genocide. YOUR bible condones slavery. YOUR bible demands obediance to YOUR Government. YOUR bible condones nation building. YOUR bible condones everything that is in direct opposition to freedom. AND Christianity has done ALL of those things in the past and present, as justified and directed by YOUR bible. And if you don't know that, then it is because you refuse to look at it objectively. The Bible is a tool for the Kings, past and present, to manipulate their people into war and obediance to the "Kingdom".

Have you bothered to watch Unrepentant yet? "Unrepentant" is typical of how modern day Christianity helps the Government do all of the above in the name of God. Maybe you will learn why there is so much opposition to Christianity/religion. Or are you unwillingly to even look?

UNREPENTANT: KEVIN ANNETT AND CANADA'S GENOCIDE

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133

[inibo]

If religion is the way to our salvation then where the fuck are they? Oh yeah.....on Wall Street praying for the Golden Calf :rolleyes:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/bullprayer2.jpg

Wow, just wow.


1) And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

2) And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

3) And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

4) And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

5) And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

6) And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

7) And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.
I quote this section of Shemot (Exodus), not as some literal breathed by God thing, but as the wonderful metaphor it is. We have forgotten from whence we came so we end up returning to the source of our misery.

God will do what God will do. To think you can know, let alone advance, God's agenda by doing anything other than allowing God to transform you from the inside out is the height of hubris.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD
Fundamentalism the problem, not "religion", spiritual humility is the solution.

[lucius]

I would agree in general but in some cases the churches do run the gulags. They just don't call them gulags. In Canada, they called them "residential schools" to re-educate the "savages" into Christianity. The re-education included abducting the Indian children and imprisoning them, beating them, raping them (and forcing them into pedophile rings), starving them, poisoning them, hanging them, doing medical experimentation on them, involuntarily sterilization, and if that wasn't enough, intentionally infecting them with tuberculocis, small pox, etc. Then the church stole their land. They don't call the ones who lived through the residential schools "survivors" for nothing. The death rate in these schools was over 50% and that doesn't include the loss of life due to involuntary sterilization of children.

Have you ever watch UNREPENTANT: KEVIN ANNETT AND CANADA'S GENOCIDE before? It is a fascinating documentary about the role of the church during the genocide of Canada's indiginous people. Though the doc focuses on Canada, it is similar to the churches role of recent genocide in many places in the world (Australia, Pacific Islands, etc., etc., etc.). Gives a whole new meaning to "spreading the gospel". The God of the Christian bible authorizes this behavior though.

When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land you are entering to possess, and drives out before you many nations, and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not allow any of them to live. This is what you are to do with them: break down their alters, smash their sacred stones, cut down their trees and burn them in the fire. For you are a people chosen by the Lord over all others on the face of the earth. Deu 7: 1-2, 5-6

This is a powerful film I would encourage everyone to watch to understand how religion is used to justify horrors/genocide/nation building all over the world in the name of "God":

UNREPENTANT: KEVIN ANNETT AND CANADA'S GENOCIDE (documentary)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133

May enjoy this, as usual, turn up the bs detector to 11 and wade in:

Arnett's website claims that government records place the annual death rate of children at residential schools between 1907 and 1959 at 50 per cent. This combined with the sterilization of thousands of native women sounds like an organized policy of genocide to me.

http://www.savethemales.ca/did_the_illuminati_exterminate.html

http://www.henrymakow.com/Crowley1.jpg

Interesting similarity with the United Church logo--all in the name of charity...

[lucius]

For those of you espousing that religion must die, I ask you to please go research the Humanist Manifesto I, II and III. They were largely written by socialists for the sole purpose of taking our country away from our biblical foundation. Because then, we would be easier to conquer. This permeated our schools, our government, everywhere. Don't believe me... go research it yourself.

This is a very important aspect to study in our social engineering--takes work to read this, especially if you disagree with it from the get-go.

The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
Aristotle

[lucius]

The destruction of all religion is part of the NWO plan. It appears you've bought right into it.

Agree, that is what I was trying to convey (abit poorly) with this post:

WE SHALL DESTROY GOD
3. But even freedom might be harmless and have its place in the State economy
without injury to the well-being of the peoples if it rested upon the foundation of faith
in God, upon the brotherhood of humanity, unconnected with the conception of
equality, which is negatived by the very laws of creation, for they have established
subordination. With such a faith as this a people might be governed by a wardship of
parishes, and would walk contentedly and humbly under the guiding hand of its
spiritual pastor submitting to the dispositions of God upon earth. This is the reason
why IT IS INDISPENSABLE FOR US TO UNDERMINE ALL FAITH, TO TEAR OUT OF THE
MIND OF THE "CATTLE" THE VERY PRINCIPLE OF GOD-HEAD AND THE SPIRIT, AND TO
PUT IN ITS PLACE ARITHMETICAL CALCULATIONS AND MATERIAL NEEDS.
...
If this gives birth to the atheists whom we see to-day, it will not, being only a
transitional stage, interfere with our views, but will serve as a warning for those
generations...

Essential to understand this egregore [mindset]...just because you do not think that you are cattle doesn't mean that others don't hold that belief...read a page from the cookbook.

ps: just got back from a trip and very interested in this thread...all the responses.

[asimplegirl]

What is the deal with people and their Harry Potter character names?

Lucius, Lupin, will there be a Snape somewhere around here?:)

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I usually do. It's a choice.

A) Because a free society is created one by one. ( There's folks here. )

B) I'm fairly good at it.<IMHO> ( Lot's of practice, over DECADES )

C) It keeps the neurons fit and tuned up.

D) It's fun. :D

E) Etc.

;) :)

And you, why not just sit back and enjoy your catfish and peanut butter, and pontificate on your erudition, theories and revelations aloud to the winds, while catching the poor stupid catfish? :rolleyes:

A theory wasn't something known during the time of our Founding Fathers. Those types of conclusions weren't developed until later on after the incorporation of the cognizant sciences.
Please, why don't you bring your Europeaness out of the closet and just admit that you aren't an American.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I don't know if it's different, science was never my strong suit.

To me it defies common sense to argue the only intelligent life that exists in the universe is on earth. By your definition of "proof" one must conclude the only intelligent life exists on earth because proof of existence is lacking. Or at a prior point in human history one must have concluded the world is flat. I am not sold on a definition of proof that only proves existence.

In matters spiritual/universal I simply believe I do not fully understand the subject matter to adopt a limiting view.

The idea that people used to be so stupid that they thought the earth was flat is perpetuated by even stupider people.

[Truth Warrior]

A theory wasn't something known during the time of our Founding Fathers. Those types of conclusions weren't developed until later on after the incorporation of the cognizant sciences.
Please, why don't you bring your Europeaness out of the closet and just admit that you aren't an American. Hey, you're the dude with the Greek fetishes and obsessions, ETC. . :p < LMAO! >

Gee, if I hadn't mentioned the WORD "theories" ONCE, what would that reply post have been about? :D

What is that, about the 15th-20th time you've now recycled that old "you aren't an American", bogus and laughable canard? :rolleyes:

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Does someone have empirical evidence disproving the existence of a God or supreme being that religions are often based on?

I fail to see how an argument such as religion needs to be destroyed can be the prevailing argument of the day without the evidence.


Maybe I missed something in the thread but I was under the impression Congress shall make no law... and leaving the matter to personal choice was the best approach

We went from the "age of reason" before Christ, to the "age of faith" after Him. To define terms, Faith doesn't take the kinds of dialectical truth engines, rational thought processes so to speak, that were developed during the age of reason during the time of the Greek Zenith. Faith isn't a matter of thought procession. Faith uses Christ Himself as a living dialectical truth engine. One prays into Him and out from Him comes the highest form of the Truth.
Now, there was such a thing as religious prayer during His time, but He solved that problem by teaching the most efficient, model way to pray with the Lord's prayer.

[heavenlyboy34]

hey, you're the dude with the greek fetishes and obsessions, etc. . :p < lmao! >

lol! ;)

[PatriotOne]

Faith uses Christ Himself as a living dialectical truth engine. One prays into Him and out from Him comes the highest form of the Truth.

Where are all these brilliant Christians who have come out with all their truths by praying to God? Did God tell them to vote for McCain? Did God tell them to go pray to the golden calf? Did God tell them to vote for Bush? Maybe the Christians here are wrong and they should be supporting everything that the other brilliant Christians are supporting.

Uncle...Christians can't even agree upon what Christianity is and they pray to God on a regular basis. Praying is a dialectical truth engine my ass. Truth doesn't have a 1000 different ways to spin it. Truth is truth.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Hey, you're the dude with the Greek fetishes and obsessions, ETC. . :p < LMAO! >

The development of the nation-state and of the concept of positive-government doesn't go back to Christ but goes back to Plato/Socrates in ancient Greece.
Jesus preached and ministered within a state made up of both His own intimate Jewish family and of a multitude nation-state made up of Gentiles. The law abiding Jews were trying to kill Jesus because they thought that He had come to destroy their existing economy which was one based on the ten commandments. But Jesus did not come to abolish the existing economy of the Jews even though it made slaves out of the nations of the Gentiles or put them at a severe disadvantage. Instead, Jesus blessed the economy of the Jews for half the time He was living in the flesh on earth but then abruptly departed from them to walk over to preach His Word to a prostitute who represented the slaves.
He spoke to give these slaves, these future Christians, an economic secret. This economic secret was a new covenent - Love thy neighbor as thyself - to replace the ten commandments that the Jews obeyed.
As a Christian living in this world, it isn't I who suffers but the lowest prostitute out there who is doing the suffering. What must she do to escape her pain and suffering? Where is her sanctuary?

[Aratus]

is newton thusly locke's template for reason, education and science in our widening enlightenment?

[Truth Warrior]

The development of the nation-state and of the concept of positive-government doesn't go back to Christ but goes back to Plato/Socrates in ancient Greece.
Jesus preached and ministered within a state made up of both His own intimate Jewish family and of a multitude nation-state made up of Gentiles. The law abiding Jews were trying to kill Jesus because they thought that He had come to destroy their existing economy which was one based on the ten commandments. But Jesus did not come to abolish the existing economy of the Jews even though it made slaves out of the nations of the Gentiles or put them at a severe disadvantage. Instead, Jesus blessed the economy of the Jews for half the time He was living in the flesh on earth but then abruptly departed from them to walk over to preach His Word to a prostitute who represented the slaves.
He spoke to give these slaves, these future Christians, an economic secret. This economic secret was a new covenent - Love thy neighbor as thyself - to replace the ten commandments that the Jews obeyed.
As a Christian living in this world, it isn't I who suffers but the lowest prostitute out there who is doing the suffering. What must she do to escape her pain and suffering? Where is her sanctuary? Try Sumer! :rolleyes: http://lexicorient.com/e.o/sumer.htm (http://lexicorient.com/e.o/sumer.htm)

[heavenlyboy34]

Try Sumer! :rolleyes:

I thought you opposed city-states, sensei. :eek:

[Truth Warrior]

I thought you opposed city-states, sensei. :eek: Sumer wasn't a city-state. ;) http://lexicorient.com/e.o/sumer.htm (http://lexicorient.com/e.o/sumer.htm)

UEW just babbles on about Greece ( EUROPEAN ) being the beginning. :p

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Where are all these brilliant Christians who have come out with all their truths by praying to God? Did God tell them to vote for McCain? Did God tell them to go pray to the golden calf? Did God tell them to vote for Bush? Maybe the Christians here are wrong and they should be supporting everything that the other brilliant Christians are supporting.

Uncle...Christians can't even agree upon what Christianity is and they pray to God on a regular basis. Praying is a dialectical truth engine my ass. Truth doesn't have a 1000 different ways to spin it. Truth is truth.

According to Plato, there are informal truths and then there is the one formal Truth.
It is an odd thing about the Greek Philosophers that they pondered the concept of one Formal God in order to bring Greek culture out from its superstitious belief in a godhood. So, atheism isn't always a bad thing.
This bordering on impiety was quite dangerous as the Greek economy was tied up in believing in a godhood. While rational Greek adults knew that no gods lived atop mount Olympus, it was still considered impious in custom for one to refer to oneself rather than to a god. Example: By Zeus I did catch a lot of fish. (It was because of Zeus that I caught the fish and not because of my own natural abilty.)

[lucius]

...I oppose organized religion, but not spirituality. The NWO wants to place the STATE, as the new God. Spirituality is a hurdle...

We are in agreement.

Quote by lucius:
The cross in the crown was effective control for millenniums, in our stage of alchemy/social-engineering, it is time to ditch the cross (or whatever), we are now free to elevate science/state to fill this void.

[lucius]

...As a "spiritual Christian", I am pretty disgusted by what I see coming out of the church these days.

Seems to be little more than Tony Robbins with a bible or insane rantings of the likes of Parsley or Hagee...

Well put...& CFR Rick Warren.

[Anti Federalist]

That's precisely who I was referring to, without mentioning names.

Been past the church once or twice, the place is the size of a stadium.

Creepy message, even creepier messenger.


Made me think of Joel Osteen (voted top most influencial Christian in America by Christians). Believes that wealth and power are rewards for pious Christians. Thinks Barrack Obama is GREAT.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/1Joel20Osteen2.jpg

George Bush was voted No. 11.

http://www.thechurchreport.com/mag_article.php?mid=875&mname=January

[lucius]

...Projects

In the first three years of the Foundation, priority will be given to encouraging inter-faith initiatives to tackle global poverty and to improve through education the understanding of the great religions. The Foundation will focus on:


Improving and expanding educational material for children about faith and the shared values of the world's major religions. We will produce and support the production of high-quality web-based and inter-active material as well as books and magazines. Learn more
Working with some of the world's most respected scholars to examine the links between religion, politics and economics in the 21st Century. As a first step, the Foundation and Yale University are partners in an initiative that will include developing a high quality academic course, research opportunities and conferences. Materials will be widely disseminated for free on the internet. Learn more
Supporting the Coexist Foundation in developing a world-class centre of education and dialogue in London to improve understanding of the shared roots, tradition and values of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Learn more
Providing support and encouragement to individuals and groups countering extremism within their faiths.

Yes, one world religion. Look initially to the Bahá'í Faith or a similar variant, steeped in the kabbalah (or a type of false kabbalah?) and spread by masons:

"Bahá'u'lláh wrote of the need for world government in this age of humanity's collective life. Because of this emphasis the international Bahá'í community has chosen to support efforts of improving international relations through organizations such as the League of Nations and the United Nations. The Bahá'í International Community is an agency under the direction of the Universal House of Justice in Haifa, and has consultative status with the following organizations:[79][80]


United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC)
United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF)
World Health Organization (WHO)
United Nations Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM)
United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP)


The Bahá'í International Community has offices at the United Nations in New York and Geneva and representations to United Nations regional commissions and other offices in Addis Ababa, Bangkok, Nairobi, Rome, Santiago, and Vienna.[80] In recent years an Office of the Environment and an Office for the Advancement of Women were established as part of its United Nations Office. The Bahá'í Faith has also undertaken joint development programs with various other United Nations agencies. In the 2000 Millennium Forum of the United Nations a Bahá'í was invited as the only non-governmental speaker during the summit.[81] See this article for further information on the relationship between the Bahá'í International Community and the United Nations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith

[Anti Federalist]

A theory wasn't something known during the time of our Founding Fathers. Those types of conclusions weren't developed until later on after the incorporation of the cognizant sciences.
Please, why don't you bring your Europeaness out of the closet and just admit that you aren't an American.

Huh?

The term "theory", as used in scientific investigation of natural laws, was in English usage before the turn of the 17th century, almost 200 years before 1776.

[asimplegirl]

aha. but we were not a free nation in 1776, lol.

Okay, sorry, I just wanted to argue that..its a simple thing that annoys me...go on with your debate.

[lucius]

What is the deal with people and their Harry Potter character names?

Lucius, Lupin, will there be a Snape somewhere around here?:)

lucius is far older than Harry Potter...read some of the works by lucius apuleius; you may laugh so hard you'll roll on the floor--eleven Bookes of the 'Golden Asse'.

[Truth Warrior]

aha. but we were not a free nation in 1776, lol.

Okay, sorry, I just wanted to argue that..its a simple thing that annoys me...go on with your debate.

The Illegality, Immorality, and Violence of All Political Action
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1537946&postcount=109 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1537946&postcount=109)

[PatriotOne]

May enjoy this, as usual, turn up the bs detector to 11 and wade in:

Arnett's website claims that government records place the annual death rate of children at residential schools between 1907 and 1959 at 50 per cent. This combined with the sterilization of thousands of native women sounds like an organized policy of genocide to me.

http://www.savethemales.ca/did_the_illuminati_exterminate.html

http://www.henrymakow.com/Crowley1.jpg

Interesting similarity with the United Church logo--all in the name of charity...

I've read that before. I actually researched the Illuminati before I researched religion. There was a time when I thought that the Illuminati infiltrated and corrupted the churches of recent times. THEN I researched religion only to find out the churches didn't need to be corrupted. They were never really benevolent to begin with. Like all corrupt institutes though, they have their PR campaigns and front organizations to make them look good. One only has to look at the freaking Vatican with some common sense to see what a scam that is. My fucking God! If I believed in the Anti-Christ, the pope (and past popes) would be in my top 3 picks. That man and his institute reek of evilness. I wouldn't waste my spit on him much less kiss his ring.....shivers.

Illuminati/Religion are both instruments of control by the "Kings". Like wars, the same people are funding and controlling the outcome. This isn't a battle between good (God) and evil (Satan). This is a battle between "us" and "them". God has given us the innate abilities to know right from wrong and the ability to make our own choices. Then he left the building leaving us with NO written instructions. Any "popular" written instructions put forth as the gospel has been tools for control/enslavement written by those who want to control us for their own benefit. It AMAZES me that anyone can read the bible and see anything different.

I'm just about done debating religion since I have no plans of being raptured by some benevolent Christian God and need to get serious about preparing for the upcoming mini-series called "Armageddon". The script has been written (Revelations), and the actors are learning their roles and lines. The unwitting extra's (that would be the sheeple) have been sufficiently primed for their roles. I wonder if the producers have cast the leading roles yet? Personally I think they are going to have to go with holographic images to pull off the miracles. Survival is my goal because I want to see how the movie ends. Wish I knew when the release date was.

[Truth Warrior]

I've read that before. I actually researched the Illuminati before I researched religion. There was a time when I thought that the Illuminati infiltrated and corrupted the churches of recent times. THEN I researched religion only to find out the churches didn't need to be corrupted. They were never really benevolent to begin with. Like all corrupt institutes though, they have their PR campaigns and front organizations to make them look good. One only has to look at the freaking Vatican with some common sense to see what a scam that is. My fucking God! If I believed in the Anti-Christ, the pope (and past popes) would be in my top 3 picks. That man and his institute reek of evilness. I wouldn't waste my spit on him much less kiss his ring.....shivers.

Illuminati/Religion are both instruments of control by the "Kings". Like wars, the same people are funding and controlling the outcome. This isn't a battle between good (God) and evil (Satan). This is a battle between "us" and "them". God has given us the innate abilities to know right from wrong and the ability to make our own choices. Then he left the building leaving us with NO written instructions. Any "popular" written instructions put forth as the gospel has been tools for control/enslavement written by those who want to control us for their own benefit. It AMAZES me that anyone can read the bible and see anything different.

I'm just about done debating religion since I have no plans of being raptured by some benevolent Christian God and need to get serious about preparing for the upcoming mini-series called "Armageddon". The script has been written (Revelations), and the actors are learning their roles and lines. The unwitting extra's (that would be the sheeple) have been sufficiently primed for their roles. I wonder if the producers have cast the leading roles yet? Personally I think they are going to have to go with holographic images to pull off the miracles. Survival is my goal because I want to see how the movie ends. Wish I knew when the release date was.

Religion and politics are both the very same thing. They are both only, very old and very effective, means to control large masses of people. It has always only been that way, and it always only will be.

The ends do NOT justify the means.

[PatriotOne]

Yes, one world religion. Look initially to the Bahá'í Faith or a similar variant, steeped in the kabbalah (or a type of false kabbalah?) and spread by masons:

"Bahá'u'lláh wrote of the need for world government in this age of humanity's collective life. Because of this emphasis the international Bahá'í community has chosen to support efforts of improving international relations through organizations such as the League of Nations and the United Nations. The Bahá'í International Community is an agency under the direction of the Universal House of Justice in Haifa, and has consultative status with the following organizations:[79][80]


United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC)
United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF)
World Health Organization (WHO)
United Nations Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM)
United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP)


The Bahá'í International Community has offices at the United Nations in New York and Geneva and representations to United Nations regional commissions and other offices in Addis Ababa, Bangkok, Nairobi, Rome, Santiago, and Vienna.[80] In recent years an Office of the Environment and an Office for the Advancement of Women were established as part of its United Nations Office. The Bahá'í Faith has also undertaken joint development programs with various other United Nations agencies. In the 2000 Millennium Forum of the United Nations a Bahá'í was invited as the only non-governmental speaker during the summit.[81] See this article for further information on the relationship between the Bahá'í International Community and the United Nations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith

Thanks bunches Lucius. Trying to find more info on the specifics of the new One World Religion was just what I was planning on looking for. Tony Blairs foundation has nothing specific.

I can't believe they would choose Tony Blair to promote their new version of religion. They have truly lost their minds. I don't know whether to be encouraged by their lack of judgement or scared shitless that they are THAT crazy :p.

[PatriotOne]

According to Plato, there are informal truths and then there is the one formal Truth.


So which truth does God give to the Christians when they are praying to him? The informal or formal?

[PatriotOne]

That's precisely who I was referring to, without mentioning names.

Been past the church once or twice, the place is the size of a stadium.

Creepy message, even creepier messenger.

Really?! I haven't thought of the term "snake oil salesman" for decades. It dusted itself off and jumped immediately to my conciousness when I saw Joel :D.

[heavenlyboy34]

Religion and politics are both the very same thing. They are both only, very old and very effective, means to control large masses of people. It has always only been that way, and it always only will be.

The ends do NOT justify the means.

I wish they weren't so effective. :(

[Dr.3D]

Ya know....like being trained to help the Gov during martial law and plan on preaching obediance to our Gov using Romans 13.


From Robertson's Word Pictures about Romans 13:1.



Rom 13:1 - Every soul (pâsa psuchê). As in 2:9; Ac 2:43. A Hebraism for pâs anthrôpos (every man). To the higher powers (exousiais huperechousais). Abstract for concrete. See Mr 2:10 for exousia. Huperechô is an old verb to have or hold over, to be above or supreme, as in 1Pe 2:13. Except by God (ei mê hupo theou). So the best MSS. rather than apo theou (from God). God is the author of order, not anarchy. The powers that be (hai ousai). "The existing authorities" (supply exousiai). Art ordained (tetagmenai eisin). Periphrastic perfect passive indicative of tassô, "stand ordained by God." Paul is not arguing for the divine right of kings or for any special form of government, but for government and order. Nor does he oppose here revolution for a change of government, but he does oppose all lawlessness and disorder.

Emphasis mine.

You also have to understand the way things where when Paul wrote what he did.
If Christianity were to survive at all, Christians would have had to refrain from standing up against the government of that time.

[RonPaulMania]

Those who advocate the end of "religion" fail to understand they are a religion, although not institutional. Secularism is a religion. Freedom from God isn't freedom, it's slavery. You cannot remove the author from His work. You cannot remove the manuals from cars and choose the cars best path by your own choosing, the same with directions, and all other forms of order.

World without the true religion, which is Christianity, is a world without truth and order.

[heavenlyboy34]

Those who advocate the end of "religion" fail to understand they are a religion, although not institutional. Secularism is a religion. Freedom from God isn't freedom, it's slavery. You cannot remove the author from His work. You cannot remove the manuals from cars and choose the cars best path by your own choosing, the same with directions, and all other forms of order.

World without the true religion, which is Christianity, is a world without truth and order.

How much truth and order do you see going on in the world? ;)

[lucius]

...THEN I researched religion only to find out the churches didn't need to be corrupted. They were never really benevolent to begin with. Like all corrupt institutes though, they have their PR campaigns and front organizations to make them look good...

I think we are in partial aggreement...corrupted/created from the get-go for the organizations. Some ideals are universally sterling, and people independently gathering around these ideals to elevate their existence/understanding, which was a large product of spreading literacy/dissemination of previously occult [hidden and difficult to see] information. Buddha may be one of many, an example of a rebel/man challenging a tyrannical caste system belief structure, eventually tamed through a co-opting paradigm; we can see this over and over, which is esoteric knowledge/ploy. Extermination of aboriginals with their keen insightful spiritual belief structures, mostly rooted in nature and inimical to their systems, is a tangential esoteric agenda as well.

I know that my belief structure has refined through research (I have shed some aspects and gathered altogether new ones), but essentially it is my understanding and of little worth to anyone else: imho, there is just one struggle and it is now, here on this planet and on a very personal level, meaning only for me to figure out--the rest is just window dressings/distractions--wish me luck. :)

ps: I enjoy this thread!


...This is a battle between "us" and "them"...

Agree: much of it is a designed distraction as well.

[Truth Warrior]

I wish they weren't so effective. :(

They've done their homework well, over six millenia. ;) :(

[PatriotOne]

From Robertson's Word Pictures about Romans 13:1.



Emphasis mine.

You also have to understand the way things where when Paul wrote what he did.
If Christianity were to survive at all, Christians would have had to refrain from standing up against the government of that time.

Isn't it a damn shame that the bible(s) just can't seem to be clear and so many people have to tell us what it really meant? Considering the punishment for not adhering to the word of the bible is eternal burning in hell, you would think it wouldn't have to depend on fallible men to tell us what it meant. And which fallable man do we look to to tell us what the word of God meant? Even Christian scholars and top Christian leaders can't agree so ???????

[heavenlyboy34]

They've done their homework well, over six millenia. ;) :(

Yeah. :(

[Dr.3D]

Isn't it a damn shame that the bible(s) just can't seem to be clear and so many people have to tell us what it really meant? Considering the punishment for not adhering to the word of the bible is eternal burning in hell, you would think it wouldn't have to depend on fallible men to tell us what it meant. And which fallable man do we look to to tell us what the word of God meant? Even Christian scholars and top Christian leaders can't agree so ???????

This is simple, read it for yourself and what you believe it says, is what it says. Just remember not to take it out of the context of the time it was written and to whom it was written.

[Perry]

A state without religion would be like...well China.
Fact is man has created this hell on Earth not religion. If it weren't religion it would be something else.
I should think anyone who has studied history would understand this.
Take a good look at China and the former Soviet Union.

[heavenlyboy34]

A state without religion would be like...well China.
Fact is man has created this hell on Earth not religion. If it weren't religion it would be something else.
I should think anyone who has studied history would understand this.
Take a good look at China and the former Soviet Union.

They have Confucionism in China. ;)

[PatriotOne]

[QUOTE=lucius;1884009]I think we are in partial aggreement...corrupted/created from the get-go for the organizations. Some ideals are universally sterling, and people independently gathering around these ideals to elevate their existence/understanding, which was a large product of spreading literacy/dissemination of previously occult [hidden and difficult to see] information. Buddha may be one of many, an example of a rebel/man challenging a tyrannical caste system belief structure, eventually tamed through a co-opting paradigm; we can see this over and over, which is esoteric knowledge/ploy.

Yes. Thanks for adding some nuances to my blunt black and white statement. The monolithic "organized religions" was formed to vector (my favorite new word...thanks IT) the grassroot individual's search for spirituality. I make a great distinction between "spirituality" and "organized religion". Like all good propaganda, disinformation always contains some truths. I believe there are truths contained in all major religous writings but figuring out which is truth and which is spin to control the people is problematic. History has been destroyed, history has been recreated. Even so-called "ancient writings" are subject to suspicion. We are left to figure things out on our own.


Extermination of aboriginals with their keen insightful spiritual belief structures, mostly rooted in nature and inimical to their systems, is a tangential esoteric agenda as well.

LOL. I had to read that a few times to get that you were saying the insightful spiritual belief was inimical to the NWO's system as opposed to the aboriginals system :o. Have you ever read a book called "Mutant Messages rom Down Under"? That was the book that originally got me interested in the genocide of the aboriginal people (I don't just mean the Austrailian aboriginals). The term "mutant" has all kinds of implications. We are referred to as "mutants" by the aboriginals. Even the term "aboriginal"should be explored more closely.

And yes, the NWO seems intent on "disappearing" or assimilating all aboriginals and their pesky spiritual belief systems. Should we be surprised when ancient knowledge of the conquered has many times been confiscated/banned/destroyed to remove from the conciousness of the people by the conquerers? Their faux God told them to do it:

When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land you are entering to possess, and drives out before you many nations, and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not allow any of them to live. This is what you are to do with them: break down their alters, smash their sacred stones, cut down their trees and burn them in the fire. For you are a people chosen by the Lord over all others on the face of the earth. Deu 7: 1-2, 5-6


I know that my belief structure has refined through research (I have shed some aspects and gathered altogether new ones), but essentially it is my understanding and of little worth to anyone else: imho, there is just one struggle and it is now, here on this planet and on a very personal level, meaning only for me to figure out--the rest is just window dressings/distractions--wish me luck. :)

Good luck. I don't profess to know everything either. But I sure as hell have eliminated most of the possibilities offered up by organized religion. I see them for what they are. By their fruits you shall know them. Busted by their own bible :p. hehe

[PatriotOne]

[QUOTE=Dr.3D;1884047]This is simple, read it for yourself and what you believe it says, is what it says.

Well now that just depends on which version of the bible I read doesn't it? Some bibles can be interpreted as meaning the reigning authority of it's time and some have conveniently removed the nuance and can mean all authority forever.


Just remember not to take it out of the context of the time it was written and to whom it was written.


Not for a second do I forget when it was written and who benefitted ;) Of course they had to tweak it a bit later and disappear the nuance of the "Gov of that time". Otherwise they wouldn't be able to tell the clergy to preach Romans 13 today when Martial Law breaks out in the future. Obey your Gov. God commands it.

Not so shockingly, the suspected future One World Religion also tells you to Obey your Government because they are put in power by God. Are you going to believe that also or are you going to wonder if that is, ummmm, self serving to the One World Government?

[LibertyEagle]

PatriotOne,

Research the Humanist Manifesto I, II and III. I think you will find it very interesting.

[PatriotOne]

A state without religion would be like...well China.
Fact is man has created this hell on Earth not religion. If it weren't religion it would be something else.
I should think anyone who has studied history would understand this.
Take a good look at China and the former Soviet Union.

China, nor Russia, have ever been without religion. We just think they were all athiests because Christianity wasn't the soup de jour :p Also their enemies like to call them "Godless" so we won't have any problem killing the heathens.

[Dr.3D]

Well now that just depends on which version of the bible I read doesn't it? Some bibles can be interpreted as meaning the reigning authority of it's time and some have conveniently removed the nuance and can mean all authority forever.

Not really, the letters from Paul to the Romans were written addressing those of that time. They don't address us but rather give us a view of the era. When it comes to articles pertaining to faith, we may subject ourselves to what it says, as long as we remember it was not addressed to us personally.




Not for a second do I forget when it was written and who benefitted ;) Of course they had to tweak it a bit later and disappear the nuance of the "Gov of that time". Otherwise they wouldn't be able to tell the clergy to preach Romans 13 today when Martial Law breaks out in the future. Obey your Gov. God commands it.

Not so shockingly, the suspected future One World Religion also tells you to Obey your Government because they are put in power by God. Are you going to believe that also or are you going to wonder if that is, ummmm, self serving to the One World Government?

Yes, it was written to the church of Rome before 70 CE. How anybody could misunderstand that it wasn't addressed to the current reader is beyond my comprehension. The people of the church of Rome benefited from it. The only benefit we get from it is in what it can teach us about what Paul said about faith and how we live today. There was no tweaking to it in the least. If you believe the different translations are tweaking, I can't help you there. There will be a one world government, but the one you are thinking of won't last long before the real one begins. There is no way what was written before 70 CE could be written to pertain to the currently growing One World Government you are thinking of.

[LibertyEagle]

China, nor Russia, have ever been without religion. We just think they were all athiests because Christianity wasn't the soup de jour :p Also their enemies like to call them "Godless" so we won't have any problem killing the heathens.

You are wrong. The USSR closed down places of worship.

[PatriotOne]

PatriotOne,

Research the Humanist Manifesto I, II and III. I think you will find it very interesting.

I probably will find it interesting. Luckily, their texts are available online. More than likely I will agree with much of what they say about current religion and disagree with their imposed alternatives :p I'll add the links to the texts in case someone else is interested.

Humanist Manifesto I (1933)

http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto1.html

Humanist Manifesto II (1973)

http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto2.html

A Secular Humanist Declaration (1980)

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=declaration

Humanist Manifesto 2000

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=manifesto

Amsterdam Declaration 2002

http://www.iheu.org/adamdecl.htm

Humanism and Its Aspirations: Humanist Manifesto III (2003)

http://www.americanhumanist.org/3/HumandItsAspirations.php

[PatriotOne]

You are wrong. The USSR closed down places of worship.

All religion or just certain religions? What period was this? I admit my Russia history can be improved upon :o

[LibertyEagle]

I probably will find it interesting. Luckily, their texts are available online. More than likely I will agree with much of what they say about current religion and disagree with their imposed alternatives :p I'll add the links to the texts in case someone else is interested.

Well, the people who wrote the first one were a pack of socialists. So, if you agree with them, well, .... :( Be sure you research the authors and their agenda.

[PatriotOne]

[QUOTE=Dr.3D;1884127]Not really, the letters from Paul to the Romans were written addressing those of that time. They don't address us but rather give us a view of the era. When it comes to articles pertaining to faith, we may subject ourselves to what it says, as long as we remember it was not addressed to us personally.

Someone needs to tell that to the clergy then. Clergy were told to preach it during Hurricane Katrina and did so their flock would cooperate with the Gov. They are also suggesting clergy to preach it for any future disaster during their training sessions with FEMA. If the Christian clergy don't know any better, then how do you expect heathens like me to understand?


How anybody could misunderstand that it wasn't addressed to the current reader is beyond my comprehension.

Ummm yeah...beats the hell out of me when the English Standard Version (for one) so clearly states that it only pertains to the gov of it's time :rolleyes:

Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Let every person(A) be subject to the governing authorities. For(B) there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

2Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you(C) will receive his approval, 4for(D) he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God,(E) an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also(F) for the sake of conscience. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7(G) Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

[heavenlyboy34]

All religion or just certain religions? What period was this? I admit my Russia history can be improved upon :o

My Russian history is a lil' rusty too, but I seem to recall that they Soviets allowed some religious activity, supervised by the State.

[lucius]

All religion or just certain religions? What period was this? I admit my Russia history can be improved upon :o

Soviets razed churches, spared synagogues:

"Fifteen years after the Bolshevist Revolution was launched to carry out the Marxist program, the editor of the American Hebrew could write: "According to such information that the writer could secure while in Russia a few weeks ago, not one Jewish synagogue has been torn down, as have hundreds—perhaps thousands of the Greek Catholic Churches...In Moscow and other large cities one can see Christian churches in the process of destruction...the Government needs the location for a large building," (American Hebrew, Nov. 18, 1932, p. 12) Apostate Jews, leading a revolution that was to destroy religion as the "opiate of the people" had somehow spared the synagogues of Russia." ("Democracy and World Dominion," 1939, p.211)

[Dr.3D]

Ummm yeah...beats the hell out of me when the English Standard Version (for one) so clearly states that it only pertains to the gov of it's time :rolleyes:

Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Let every person(A) be subject to the governing authorities. For(B) there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

2Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you(C) will receive his approval, 4for(D) he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God,(E) an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also(F) for the sake of conscience. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7(G) Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

So where does it say the government of that time? Remember, the letters were written before 70CE.

If you found a letter from your father to your mother and it was dated before you were born, would you think your father had written the letter for you to read and take personally? I guess you could take some parts of it personally if he had written he would love his children when they were born, but other than that, how could you consider the letter as being addressed to you?

The same holds true for the letters Paul wrote to the churches of his time. A lot of things may be taken as something the church of today may use as advise but those letters were not addressing the church of today but instead the churches at the time he wrote the letters.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[PatriotOne]

Well, the people who wrote the first one were a pack of socialists. So, if you agree with them, well, .... :( Be sure you research the authors and their agenda.

Well, it's rare that I find any group that I can't find some common ground with...including Socialists and Christians :p. I have yet to find any group I totally support either. People may impose collectivist labels on me occasionally but I have yet to wear one willingly or comfortably. My mom use to say I was born independant.

[PatriotOne]

So where does it say the government of that time? Remember, the letters were written before 70CE.

If you found a letter from your father to your mother and it was dated before you were born, would you think your father had written the letter for you to read and take personally? I guess you could take some parts of it personally if he had written he would love his children when they were born, but other than that, how could you consider the letter as being addressed to you?

The same holds true for the letters Paul wrote to the churches of his time. A lot of things may be taken as something the church of today may use as advise but those letters were not addressing the church of today but instead the churches at the time he wrote the letters.


Since the whole damn bible was written before my time, I guess I should assume it wasn't meant for me. Is that the logic or just when it conveniently clarifies it's absurdity?

[lucius]

China, nor Russia, have ever been without religion. We just think they were all athiests because Christianity wasn't the soup de jour :p Also their enemies like to call them "Godless" so we won't have any problem killing the heathens.

From up thread, in china religion was almost completely eradicated in one generation (I have a chinese wife from mainland china, who followed me home from a business trip):

Orginally posted by lucius:
ARITHMETICAL CALCULATIONS AND MATERIAL NEEDS is dialectic materialistic secular humanism, which is the synthesis of modern history.

Do you think if there is another 1929-like depression, with our newfound belief structure, will the common man 'love their neighbor like thyself' or eat them?

I have seen this inculcating in china--Bon Appétit. Works great at further isolating the individual from his true strength: his fellow man.

So busy fighting each other, little to resist the state--excellent for control.

The cross in the crown was effective control for millenniums, in our stage of alchemy/social-engineering, it is time to ditch the cross (or whatever in general), we are now free to elevate science/state to fill this void.

[Dr.3D]

Since the whole damn bible was written before my time, I guess I should assume it wasn't meant for me. Is that the logic or just when it conveniently clarifies it's absurdity?

Not all of the Bible consists of letters written to churches.

[M House]

As far as I can tell Russia never was without religion at all. It just liked to select their leaders and purge a few groups here and there. I posted a link awhile back about the person who tried to remove the remaining communist influence on the Russian Orthodox church. China I don't know but I'm pretty sure they mainly just don't like certain groups as well aka Tibetan Monks.

[PatriotOne]

So where does it say the government of that time? Remember, the letters were written before 70CE.

If you found a letter from your father to your mother and it was dated before you were born, would you think your father had written the letter for you to read and take personally? I guess you could take some parts of it personally if he had written he would love his children when they were born, but other than that, how could you consider the letter as being addressed to you?

The same holds true for the letters Paul wrote to the churches of his time. A lot of things may be taken as something the church of today may use as advise but those letters were not addressing the church of today but instead the churches at the time he wrote the letters.

And I think you forgot to address my question as to why the Christian clergy are preaching it like it applies to Christians now. Are they confused? And if they are confused, why, when it is, as you say, so apparent?

[Dr.3D]

And I think you forgot to address my question as to why the Christian clergy are preaching it like it applies to Christians now. Are they confused? And if they are confused, why, when it is, as you say, so apparent?

Yes, they are more than likely confused. A great number of denominations try to use the letters from Paul to the churches as if they were written to them. Obviously it isn't apparent to them.

[PatriotOne]

From up thread, in china religion was almost completely eradicated in one generation (I have a chinese wife from mainland china, who followed me home from a business trip):

You mean the current generation is without religion or was this a different period? I thought Buddhism was the prevailing religion in China.

[lucius]

[QUOTE] ...Have you ever read a book called "Mutant Messages rom Down Under"? That was the book that originally got me interested in the genocide of the aboriginal people (I don't just mean the Austrailian aboriginals). The term "mutant" has all kinds of implications. We are referred to as "mutants" by the aboriginals. Even the term "aboriginal"should be explored more closely.

And yes, the NWO seems intent on "disappearing" or assimilating all aboriginals and their pesky spiritual belief systems. Should we be surprised when ancient knowledge of the conquered has many times been confiscated/banned/destroyed to remove from the conciousness of the people by the conquerers? Their faux God told them to do it:



I will try to get that book; it is an interest of mine. Mander in his 'Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television' argues that civilization is alien, especially widespread use of electrical lights (just a little bit over 100 years), but if we step back, in reality, civilization is their system and yes, aboriginal belief structures, intune with nature, are extremely inimical to their system.


[QUOTE] When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land you are entering to possess, and drives out before you many nations, and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not allow any of them to live. This is what you are to do with them: break down their alters, smash their sacred stones, cut down their trees and burn them in the fire. For you are a people chosen by the Lord over all others on the face of the earth. Deu 7: 1-2, 5-6...

Stressing just obedience with no moral relativity, 2,500 years of some of the greatest social engineering/cookbook that unfortunately the world has ever seen, courtesy of the Hebrew tribe of Levi. If you wish to study something extremely racist/spooky delve off into the Talmud, which makes fundy christians look placid/mundane.

[PatriotOne]

:eek:
Yes, they are more than likely confused. A great number of denominations try to use the letters from Paul to the churches as if they were written to them. Obviously it isn't apparent to them.

You would have thought since the Christian leaders have a direct line to God when they pray, God would have clarified this to them by now. It has been 2000 + yrs. Perhaps God better send Bible 3.0 to these people quickly before you Christians are mass vaccinated and turn over your guns or marched off to a concentration camp because you resisted the Gov during martial law. Hate for THAT to happen because your clergy are confused :eek:

[lucius]

You mean the current generation is without religion or was this a different period? I thought Buddhism was the prevailing religion in China.

China has eased up now and has many religions (Islam is dominate in many areas), still persecute Falun Gong, throw them into prison and sell their organs (it thats dramatic, kid little).

It took them one generation of social engineering to almost completely eradicate all religion; state didn't tolerate the competition, now they have TV (best mind twister of all).

[Dr.3D]

:eek:

You would have thought since the Christian leaders have a direct line to God when they pray, God would have clarified this to them by now. It has been 2000 + yrs. Perhaps God better send Bible 3.0 to these people quickly before you Christians are mass vaccinated and turn over your guns or marched off to a concentration camp because you resisted the Gov during martial law. Hate for THAT to happen because your clergy are confused :eek:

I'm 'clergy' and I am not confused. I don't have any kind of as you say, direct line to God. I can't help what others do.

[inibo]

Look initially to the Bahá'í Faith or a similar variant, steeped in the kabbalah (or a type of false kabbalah?)

I'm glad to see you've been paying attention. :)

Carry on.

[PatriotOne]

[QUOTE=lucius;1884231][QUOTE=PatriotOne;1884091]

I will try to get that book; it is an interest of mine. Mander in his 'Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television' argues that civilization is alien, especially widespread use of electrical lights (just a little bit over 100 years), but if we step back, in reality, civilization is their system and yes, aboriginal belief structures, intune with nature, are extremely inimical to their system.

Make sure you read up on the history of the book also. It''s similar to the situation of the Report from Iron Mountain. Reprints has been forced to be claimed as fiction due to "pressure".




Stressing just obedience with no moral relativity, 2,500 years of some of the greatest social engineering/cookbook that unfortunately the world has ever seen, courtesy of the Hebrew tribe of Levi. If you wish to study something extremely raciest/spooky delve off into the Talmud, which makes fundy christians look placid/mundane.

I've seen enough. Scary stuff indeed :eek:. I would hope Christians would read the Talmud before making their next bank deposit.

[Cowlesy]

Yes, and the "Christians" booed him at the "Values Voters" debate for daring to name the Prince of Peace and suggesting what he would think of things.

As a "spiritual Christian", I am pretty disgusted by what I see coming out of the church these days.

Seems to be little more than Tony Robbins with a bible or insane rantings of the likes of Parsley or Hagee.

David J. Smith and Chuck Baldwin excepted.

It's too bad the rabid shih tzu's labeled Baldwin as a Theocrat --- one of my litmus tests for him was that he would respect all religion/non-religion, and he passed even as a Pastor.

I'm tired of the constant religion fights on here. I am probably one of the christian-silent-majority on here who aren't Pastor Hagee devotees, or one who feels the need to defend my beliefs at every turn. I've seen maybe one or two threads that were in response to the attacks on christianity, and the anti-christians just use them as more fodder to say "HEY SEE WE'RE BEING ATTACKED!"

Little angry shih tzu's....I can't come up with anything better.

Ya'll can re-commence typing in circles!

[PatriotOne]

I'm 'clergy' and I am not confused. I don't have any kind of as you say, direct line to God. I can't help what others do.

There's no direct line to God :eek:. Then who are those Christian Leaders really talking too when they tell their flock that they talk/pray to God and God gives them guidance all the time? Their bankers perhaps?

[inibo]

Mander in his 'Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television' argues that civilization is alien


Make sure you read up on the history of the book also. It''s similar to the situation of the Report from Iron Mountain.


I would hope Christians would read the Talmud before making their next bank deposit.

I'm not touching the Talmud thing with a ten foot pole, but the other two books are available online:

Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television (http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1978-09-01/Subliminal-Messages-From-TV.aspx)

Report from Iron Mountain (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_ironmountain0.htm)

[PatriotOne]

It's too bad the rabid shih tzu's labeled Baldwin as a Theocrat --- one of my litmus tests for him was that he would respect all religion/non-religion, and he passed even as a Pastor.

I'm tired of the constant religion fights on here. I am probably one of the christian-silent-majority on here who aren't Pastor Hagee devotees, or one who feels the need to defend my beliefs at every turn. I've seen maybe one or two threads that were in response to the attacks on christianity, and the anti-christians just use them as more fodder to say "HEY SEE WE'RE BEING ATTACKED!"

Little angry shih tzu's....I can't come up with anything better.

Ya'll can re-commence typing in circles!

How ironic. The now persecuted Christians can't understand why everyone doesn't throw a parade in their honor after thousands of years of persecuting non-Christians, genocide and slavery in the name of their God. I'm guessing it's called "blowback" Cowlesy ;).

[Dr.3D]

There's no direct line to God :eek:. Then who are those Christian Leaders really talking too when they tell their flock that they talk/pray to God and God gives them guidance all the time? Their bankers perhaps?

There is the Holy Spirit and people do rely on it for guidance. Of course, they don't get a phone call or hear a voice from the Holy Spirit. If they do, then perhaps they are really hearing a banker.

I often feel led by the Holy Spirit and act accordingly. I don't hear voices or get a phone call though.

Please don't group all Christians into the TV evangelist group. Most of the TV evangelists are probably working for money rather than God.

[Cowlesy]

How ironic. The now persecuted Christians can't understand why everyone doesn't throw a parade in their honor after thousands of years of persecuting non-Christians, genocide and slavery in the name of their God. I'm guessing it's called "blowback" Cowlesy ;).

"throw a parade in their honor"

"thousands"

arf! arf! arf!

I didn't persecute anyone, I didn't own slaves, I didn't start any wars, you didn't go through the Spanish inquisition and you aren't descended from Puritans.

Carry on with your arf'ing lol. And no, don't come back later and ask to have all your posts erased.

[lucius]

PatriotOne Quote:
...Have you ever read a book called "Mutant Message Down Under"? That was the book that originally got me interested in the genocide of the aboriginal people (I don't just mean the Austrailian aboriginals). The term "mutant" has all kinds of implications. We are referred to as "mutants" by the aboriginals. Even the term "aboriginal"should be explored more closely.

And yes, the NWO seems intent on "disappearing" or assimilating all aboriginals and their pesky spiritual belief systems. Should we be surprised when ancient knowledge of the conquered has many times been confiscated/banned/destroyed to remove from the conciousness of the people by the conquerers?


[QUOTE][QUOTE=lucius;1884231]

Make sure you read up on the history of the book also. It''s similar to the situation of the Report from Iron Mountain. Reprints has been forced to be claimed as fiction due to "pressure"...

Just picked it up for $4 total. Judging from how amazon displays all one-star reviews first (unusual anomaly), out of print, maybe somewhat suppressed? Thanks for the prompt.

[PatriotOne]

I'm not touching the Talmud thing with a ten foot pole, but the other two books are available online:

Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television (http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1978-09-01/Subliminal-Messages-From-TV.aspx)

Report from Iron Mountain (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_ironmountain0.htm)

Thanks for the links. Reminded me that I wanted to revisit Iron Mountain Report to see what they said about religion. Now I know why I couldn't remember. They didn't propose a substitution for religon back then. Merely:

In this respect, the possible substitute enemies noted earlier would be insufficient. One exception might be the environmental-pollution model, if the danger to society it posed was genuinely imminent. The fictive models would have to carry the weight of extraordinary conviction, underscored with a not inconsiderable actual sacrifice of life; the construction of an up-to-date mythological or religious structure for this purpose would present difficulties in our era, but must certainly be considered.

They've been testing several options by throwing several out there to see which one would catch on I think.

[PatriotOne]

I didn't persecute anyone, I didn't own slaves, I didn't start any wars, you didn't go through the Spanish inquisition and you aren't descended from Puritans.


And yet you choose to associate yourself with a religion that did and still does. Can't you smell the stench of rotten corpses who died in the name of spreading the gospel of Christianity yet? Let me give you a hint. It smells similar to the rotten corpses we have left around by spreading democracy.

[LibertyEagle]

Ok, now you are being offensive and REALLY PISSING ME OFF!!!! :mad:

[PatriotOne]

Just picked it up for $4 total. Judging from how amazon displays all one-star reviews first (unusual anomaly), out of print, maybe somewhat suppressed? Thanks for the prompt.

Awesome. It's controversial so typical of the treatment of most controversial books. Genocide of a race is a pollitically incorrect subject ya know.

[LibertyEagle]

You know, the people who still come around here now, seem to really know what they hate, but few seem to know what they are fighting for. It's real easy to say "freedom" or "liberty", but they are more than just words. They are principles. If you cannot respect another fellow freedom fighter's religious beliefs, then I submit that you have no understanding of what liberty is all about and are little more than hypocrites. It makes me sad really. Because if the rest of the movement is like what I am seeing here these days, I know we have no hope.

My 2 cents as a forum member.

[PatriotOne]

Ok, now you are being offensive and REALLY PISSING ME OFF!!!! :mad:

But he called me a "little angry shih tzu's". I don't care much for little dogs. I prefer Labs and it really hurt my feelings :(

[Dr.3D]

Thanks for moving this thread to Hot Topics.......

Now at least only a few will be offended by it. :)

[LibertyEagle]

PatriotOne and the other Christian-bashers:

You do not want me to comment further right now, because you have REALLY pissed me off. I'm sick to death of the Christian-bashing around here. If that is the way you truly feel, then I guess we are not in the same movement at all. :mad:

[PatriotOne]

You know, the people who still come around here now, seem to really know what they hate, but few seem to know what they are fighting for. It's real easy to say "freedom" or "liberty", but they are more than just words. They are principles. If you cannot respect another fellow freedom fighter's religious beliefs, then I submit that you have no understanding of what liberty is all about and are little more than hypocrites. It makes me sad really. Because if the rest of the movement is like what I am seeing here these days, I know we have no hope.

My 2 cents as a forum member.

My 2 cents. Anyone who identifies with Christianity and claims to get their prinicples from a book that condones genocide and slavery hasn't a clue what Liberty is all about. Or is Liberty only for Christians?. Either that or Christians don't know what Christianity has been all about and maybe they should know what they are a card carrying member of, eh? A popular cult. A tool of the Government and Kings to manipulate the people to kill other people. Liberty my ass.

It's YOUR God. It's YOUR rules. You go to hell :p

[LibertyEagle]

Nope, we definitely are not in the same movement.

Let's see, you clearly hate Christians.

Our Founding Fathers were Christians, so that must mean you hate them too.

They wrote our Constitution, so you must hate that too.

Ron Paul is a Christian, do you hate him too?

:rolleyes:

What is it exactly that attracted you to Ron Paul and this movement?

[Dr.3D]

My 2 cents. Anyone who identifies with Christianity and claims to get their prinicples from a book that condones genocide and slavery hasn't a clue what Liberty is all about. Or is Liberty only for Christians?. Either that or Christians don't know what Christianity has been all about and maybe they should know what they are a card carrying member of, eh? A popular cult. A tool of the Government and Kings to manipulate the people to kill other people. Liberty my ass.

It's YOUR God. It's YOUR rules. You go to hell :p

Obviously, you don't know what Christianity is or you wouldn't believe it is about genocide and slavery.

[driller80545]

The movement is big enough for the both of you. It is called personal liberty. Respect that.

[Dr.3D]

the movement is big enough for the both of you. It is called personal liberty. Respect that.

qft

[lucius]

I'm glad to see you've been paying attention. :)

Carry on.

I'm stumbling around but find the more I read, the greater the interest: about to start 'The Cabala: Its Influence of Judaism and Christianity' published 1913 by Dr. Bernard Pick. Any insight on this book?

Also wading through Johann Andreas Eisenmenger's 'The Traditions of the Jews' and Hoffman's 'Judaism Discovered.' But have bogged down, put aside for awhile, a bit dark.

[LibertyEagle]

The movement is big enough for the both of you. It is called personal liberty. Respect that.

That's what I used to think, but now that I'm seeing that some here absolutely HATE Christians, I am rethinking that. I certainly would not turn my back to someone who had such little respect for individual liberty. No way, NO HOW.

[PatriotOne]

PatriotOne and the other Christian-bashers:

[QUOTE]You do not want me to comment further right now, because you have REALLY pissed me off.

Fine by me. The conversation about religion is always more productive and interesting without the Christian input :cool:.


I'm sick to death of the Christian-bashing around here. If that is the way you truly feel, then I guess we are not in the same movement at all. :mad:

Your either with the Christians or your against the Christians :confused:. I hope you don't plan on committing genocide on us :eek:

Good night LE. I'm done :p.

Peace.

[lucius]

...REALLY pissed me off. I'm sick to death of the Christian-bashing around here. If that is the way you truly feel, then I guess we are not in the same movement at all. :mad:

That was the intent of this thread when it was launched (imho), using a Hollywood vetted insider, left-wing gatekeeper shill--Maher. Overall, I found a wealth of information, illustrating a large difference between mega 403(c) religious organizations and actual uplifting personal spirituality, along with policy agenda in-action equating all things spiritual as synonymous with insanity--more divide et imperium, but very interesting information just the same. It's truly a big tent...

[Patriot123]

Blaming religion for mankind's problems is like blaming guns for violence.

I personally don't like religion - I'm atheist/somewhat Jewish, but really. If you get rid of religion, mankind will simply find a new way to blame and kill eachother. You take away religion and they'll align with their ethnicities and there will still be problems. You take away ethnicities and people will align with their age groups. You take away age groups and people will align with people of the similar hair color. Come on - really? You can't blame religion. You can blame mankind, but not religion. To do so would, again, be the same as blaming guns for peoples actions instead of blaming the actual person. And I believe we're all pro-gun, here, yes?

[Anti Federalist]

It's too bad the rabid shih tzu's labeled Baldwin as a Theocrat --- one of my litmus tests for him was that he would respect all religion/non-religion, and he passed even as a Pastor.

I'm tired of the constant religion fights on here. I am probably one of the christian-silent-majority on here who aren't Pastor Hagee devotees, or one who feels the need to defend my beliefs at every turn. I've seen maybe one or two threads that were in response to the attacks on christianity, and the anti-christians just use them as more fodder to say "HEY SEE WE'RE BEING ATTACKED!"

Little angry shih tzu's....I can't come up with anything better.

Ya'll can re-commence typing in circles!

I made the mistake of running an image search for "circle jerk", which is what these threads usually turn into, especially if Uncle is involved somehow.:D

Big mistake, don't do it.:D

Anyway, I find myself in the "silent majority" as well. I think what is being displayed here is a brand of "self nihilism" or perhaps some offshoot of objectivist thinking, with all that entails. And there is the age factor as well. I'm guessing most of the "bashers" are younger people. I see in their arguments my own from about 25 years ago. But with age, comes wisdom, the greatest wisdom being that "you haven't even come close to figuring this all out".

Or, as the old timer from the movie Shooter put it:

"Just when you think you've got it all figured out, you're wrong".

I've seen enough, watched enough monoliths fall, to know that there are but few unshakable truths, two of those being, "what you see before you is not all there is", this applies to the physical as well as spiritual realm and "that without freedom, the quest to know any of these truths will be forever blocked".

Sadly an objectivist view, or other realms of nihilistic thought, reject "intangibles", love, honor, duty, faith or service, to name a few. Now, those intangibles are impossible to define for any group of people, they define, literally, the pursuit of happiness, which changes from person to person.

Freedom is another intangible.

I seek nothing more than the freedom to exercise my quest for spiritual fulfillment, and to bring others to it, if they wish.

I reject any form of coercion to do so, as I reject any form of government coercion as well.

How that then turns me into a potential Inquisitor is beyond me.

[Truth Warrior]

They have Confucionism in China. ;)

They have Falun Gong also, persecuted by the CCP, of course. :p :mad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong)

[Truth Warrior]

You are wrong. The USSR closed down places of worship. Nope, the Communist Party AKA Bolsheviks AKA GOVERNMENT did.

[Truth Warrior]

Darn, I missed some fun. I just hate when that happens. RATS!!! :p

"Mods Gone Wild!". :D Sorry folks, I just gotta pass on your "sit down, shut up and do as you're told, Liberty ( so called ) movement". ;)

Politics Is a Sociopathic Cult (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer96.html) ( and that ain't the only one.<IMHO> ;) )

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/when_fascism_comes_300.gif

[LibertyEagle]

Darn, I missed some fun. I just hate when that happens. RATS!!! :p

"Mods Gone Wild!". :D

Yes, we badly needed a good cut-and-paste. :p:rolleyes:

[Truth Warrior]

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Contextomy (http://www.reference.com/search?q=Contextomy)

[LibertyEagle]

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Contextomy (http://www.reference.com/search?q=Contextomy)

I quoted your entire post, so what on earth are you talking about? Yes, you edited your post after the fact to add a little insult and of course your trademark, a cut-and-paste, but are you expecting us to go back and edit our posts to include any edits you make? :rolleyes:

[Truth Warrior]

I quoted your entire post, so what on earth are you talking about? Yes, you edited your post after the fact to add a little insult and of course your trademark, a cut-and-paste, but are you expecting us to go back and edit our posts to include any edits you make? :rolleyes:

Thank you. May I have another?

[LibertyEagle]

Thank you. May I have another?
Is this your answer to the question I asked?

Okey dokey. :rolleyes:

[Truth Warrior]

Is this your answer to the question I asked?

Okey dokey. :rolleyes:

Thank you. May I have another?

[LibertyEagle]

Thank you. May I have another?

Up to you.

[Truth Warrior]

Up to you.


Nope. Don't think so, but thanks for participating. :)

:D

[Truth Warrior]

I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin

[Truth Warrior]

I made the mistake of running an image search for "circle jerk", which is what these threads usually turn into, especially if Uncle is involved somehow.:D

Big mistake, don't do it.:D

Anyway, I find myself in the "silent majority" as well. I think what is being displayed here is a brand of "self nihilism" or perhaps some offshoot of objectivist thinking, with all that entails. And there is the age factor as well. I'm guessing most of the "bashers" are younger people. I see in their arguments my own from about 25 years ago. But with age, comes wisdom, the greatest wisdom being that "you haven't even come close to figuring this all out".

Or, as the old timer from the movie Shooter put it:

"Just when you think you've got it all figured out, you're wrong".

I've seen enough, watched enough monoliths fall, to know that there are but few unshakable truths, two of those being, "what you see before you is not all there is", this applies to the physical as well as spiritual realm and "that without freedom, the quest to know any of these truths will be forever blocked".

Sadly an objectivist view, or other realms of nihilistic thought, reject "intangibles", love, honor, duty, faith or service, to name a few. Now, those intangibles are impossible to define for any group of people, they define, literally, the pursuit of happiness, which changes from person to person.

Freedom is another intangible.

I seek nothing more than the freedom to exercise my quest for spiritual fulfillment, and to bring others to it, if they wish.

I reject any form of coercion to do so, as I reject any form of government coercion as well.

How that then turns me into a potential Inquisitor is beyond me.

I just knew that I had some additional good reasons to really like you. ;)

Thanks! :)

[inibo]

I'm stumbling around but find the more I read, the greater the interest: about to start 'The Cabala: Its Influence of Judaism and Christianity' published 1913 by Dr. Bernard Pick. Any insight on this book?

Also wading through Johann Andreas Eisenmenger's 'The Traditions of the Jews' and Hoffman's 'Judaism Discovered.' But have bogged down, put aside for awhile, a bit dark.

If you really want to know about Kabbalah I would suggest you read Kabbalah, by Gershom Scholem (http://www.amazon.com/Kabbalah-Meridian-Gershon-Scholem/dp/0452010071). He was not a kabbalist himself, but he was a world class scholar who devoted most of his academic career to the study of the history and influence of Kabbalah. Some of his material is a bit outdated by later research by folks like Daniel Matt and Mohshe Idel, but his book is still the standard. You should also try reading books by people who actually practice Kabbalah. The two that I recommend are Aryeh Kaplan and Daniel Matt. Kaplan's Sefer Yetzirah: The Book of Creation in Theory and Practice (http://www.amazon.com/Sefer-Yetzirah-Creation-Aryeh-Kaplan/dp/0877288550) is probably the best introduction to the practice of Kabbalah outside of actually studying under a practicing kabbalist. Daniel Matt's The Essential Kabbalah: The Heart of Jewish Mysticism (http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Kabbalah-Heart-Jewish-Mysticism/dp/0062511637) is another good introduction.

I'm not familiar with the book you mention by Dr. Bernard Pick, but I promise you this, any book written about Kabbalah prior to Scholem, unless it was actually written by a kabbalist, is going to be filled with inaccuracies an half truths. It will tell you more about the author's preconceptions of Jews, Judaism and Kabbalah than it will about Kabbalah itself because, as I said in an earlier post on a different thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1866519&postcount=56), prior to the mid-to-late 20th century Kabbalah was hidden to anyone who did not have access to either the thousand of manuscripts written in Hebrew or Aramaic or to the oral tradition. It was a secret to any outside of Judaism. Well, not a secret so much as obscure and very misunderstood. More than likely Pick's book is based on writers such as Eliphas Levi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_L%C3%A9vi), Gerard Encausse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papus) and Cornelius Agrippa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Cornelius_Agrippa). These men were not kabbalists, they were alchemists and ceremonial magicians. They were attempting to use their very limited knowledge of Kabbalah to reconcile their understanding of Hermetic Magic with Christianity. That was the same tradition that gave rise to Masonic and quasi-masonic secret societies such as the Rosicrucians, the Golden Dawn, the O.T.O (http://oto-usa.org/) and the A∴A∴ (http://www.outercol.org/).

I'm saying all this to say if you want to know about Kabbalah you have to go to the sources. If you are only trying to reinforce some notion that the evil wicked joos are secretly running the world behind the scenes I can't help you, but by all means continue to read books by people you already agree with. I'm sure you will find it useful, it just won't tell you anything about Kabbalah or much about reality either.

If the tone of that last paragraph seem snarky I apologize, but every time this topic comes up it really pisses me of because there is a wealth of accurate information these days for anyone who actually wants the truth. Instead, people keep bringing up hundred-year-old half-backed Protocols of Zion bullshit which has long since been refuted.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/309_big_mo.gif (http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103886)

[Working Poor]

I am late getting in on this discussion. Since I am not at my home computer I will not have an oppertunity to read all the responces prior to my comment or probally not after either. Forgive me if I repeat something someone else has already said.....

To me religion is not the same as love. Love of God or people is done with the heart, mind, and spirit the things not seen. Just because someone habitually goes to church and practices saying things(religion) and observes holidays does not mean they have love for God in their heart, mind ,and spirit. It is possible that people who do love God will practice religious habits and it is also possible that their are people who practice religion to try to convince others that they love God. It is also possible that there are people who love God with all their heart mind and spirit that practice no religious rituals at all.

I believe Jesus did say something about this in calling certain ones hippocrits. They are only making a show of their religion but they are not loving God.

I feel that Bush may have been a hippocrit by using the abortion issue to secure his position yet he has not introduced one piece of legislation to ensure the oppertunity for life. The people who nominated him have not held him accountable on his position on abortion and I think that kind of makes them hippocrits as well.

So to me religion makes it much easier to be a hippocrit. If you think you are better than someone you see on your way to church on Sunday morning who is living on the street and perhaps doing things that you consider illmoral and condemn them in your heart are you not a religious hippocrit?

[torchbearer]

I think jordan maxwell brings up some good points that hit at this topic.
We need a new understanding of god through modern eyes.
A god of the universe, not of man exclusively.
No more snake oil salesmen living lush on the "God show".
More of an understanding that something as powerful as a divine of the universe doesn't play favorites among the different tribes of men, doesn't have a laundry list of things you can wear or eat.....
And doesn't have a chosen people.

Now, to get people to that point... impossible.

[Truth Warrior]

"It doesn't seem to me that this fantastically marvelous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions, and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil — which is the view that religion has. The stage is too big for the drama."
(1959), quoted by James Gleick in Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman (1992)