PDA

View Full Version : TVA dike breaks - floods homes in TN




Matt Collins
12-22-2008, 01:19 PM
HARRIMAN, Tenn. — A retention pond wall collapsed early Monday morning at a power plant run by the nation's largest public utility, releasing a frigid mix of water and ash that flooded as many as 10 homes and put hundreds of acres of rural land under water.

The 40-acre pond was used by the Tennessee Valley Authority to hold a slurry of ash generated by the coal-burning Kingston Steam Plant in Harriman, about 50 miles west of Knoxville, said TVA spokesman Gil Francis. An earthen wall gave way just before 1 a.m., flooding the road and railroad tracks leading to the plant, which is located in a mostly rural area.

The rush of water, ash, and debris pushed one home completely off its foundation and into the street with the homeowner inside.

The man was the only person inside his house at the time of the landslide. Relatives of the homeowner said he was trapped in a deluge of muck and sheetrock before kicking out a window to escape his crushed home.


The daughter and other family members expressed joy that her father was safe, but were devastated at the loss of their home. She said the mudslide swallowed the home along with all of their material possessions, including all of their recently purchased Christmas presents. The daughter sobbed as she indicated her father had spent most of his free time and money renovating the home over the past three years.

The homeowner is an employee of TVA, according to his family members.

The pond is used for dumping a slurry of waste from burning coal at the steam plant, Francis said. TVA will check for signs of problems at its 10 other coal-fired plants, most of which were built in the 1950s.

The pond is not regulated by the state because it is part of a federal project, said Tisha Calabrese-Denton, spokesman for the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation.


The ash stored in the pond contained metals and suspended solids, Martocci said. Some of the material remains on the land and some of it flowed into the Emory River, which flows into the Tennessee River, she said.


Knoxville-based TVA supplies electricity to 8.8 million consumers in Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia.
SOURCE:
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20081222/NEWS01/81222006


http://cmsimg.tennessean.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DN&Date=20081222&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=81222006&Ref=AR&Profile=1006&MaxW=550&MaxH=650&title=0

Matt Collins
12-22-2008, 01:21 PM
This is what happens when government is put in charge of something. I hope these victims get MILLIONS of dollars in a lawsuit. The only problem is that those millions will be paid in the form of either higher taxes, or higher electric rates....

phill4paul
12-22-2008, 01:35 PM
HARRIMAN, Tenn.

The homeowner is an employee of TVA, according to his family members.


http://www.tennessean.com/article/20081222/NEWS01/81222006


http://cmsimg.tennessean.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DN&Date=20081222&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=81222006&Ref=AR&Profile=1006&MaxW=550&MaxH=650&title=0




What the TVA giveth it taketh away.

Mesogen
12-22-2008, 02:31 PM
Wait, let me channel some of the conservative/libertarian rhetoric going around after Katrina.

"They shouldn't have lived in that area. They knew what they were risking."

"How can they expect the government to bail them out because it was their own fault for living next to a dike."

I don't agree with these sentiments, but I just wanted to remind anyone who might have agreed with them after Katrina.

phill4paul
12-22-2008, 02:48 PM
Wait, let me channel some of the conservative/libertarian rhetoric going around after Katrina.

"They shouldn't have lived in that area. They knew what they were risking."

"How can they expect the government to bail them out because it was their own fault for living next to a dike."

I don't agree with these sentiments, but I just wanted to remind anyone who might have agreed with them after Katrina.

I was looking at a home 10yrs ago that was in a 100 year flood plain. Beautiful place. Was a an old church that had been refurbished with a lot of potential. A steal of a price.

The trouble came when I started looking at loans and specifically insurance. It awoke me to the fact that it was indeed a flood plain and that their had been a major castatrophy in that area in the last 100 years. I decided that it was not the place for me.

I don't get your point.

Matt Collins
12-22-2008, 03:05 PM
I just wanted to remind anyone who might have agreed with them after Katrina.Good try but you fail to realize the differences between this situation and Katrina.

First off this is a man-made government created situation. The government / TVA is WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for this.

Katrina / N.O. was a natural disaster. And while the govt was incompetent in their response, there was nothing the govt could've done to prevent it.

Also it was widely known that N.O. would flood if a major hurricane ever hit, the levees would break, and the city would be under water. In fact it had happened previous. In the TN situation this government created ash pool had no pre-conceived ideas about it ever failing. And besides, some of these homes, if not all, were probably built prior to the govt / TVA creating the dike.

Nice try, but no cigar...

Mesogen
12-22-2008, 03:09 PM
I was looking at a home 10yrs ago that was in a 100 year flood plain. Beautiful place. Was a an old church that had been refurbished with a lot of potential. A steal of a price.

The trouble came when I started looking at loans and specifically insurance. It awoke me to the fact that it was indeed a flood plain and that their had been a major castatrophy in that area in the last 100 years. I decided that it was not the place for me.

I don't get your point.

The OP said these people should sue the government. I brought up the fact that after Katrina all talk of suing the Army Corps of Engineers or the Federal Government in general was met with the reply of "no one made you live there." I brought up Katrina just in case anyone reading this somehow saw this as a different situation.

acptulsa
12-22-2008, 03:11 PM
Katrina / N.O. was a natural disaster. And while the govt was incompetent in their response, there was nothing the govt could've done to prevent it.

Also it was widely known that N.O. would flood if a major hurricane ever hit, the levees would break...

Contradict yourself much?

Wish the damned Federal morass would get the hell out of it. Wish they'd let the state of Tennessee inspect anything the residents of the state want inspected, and I wish cities like New Orleans weren't teased and kept waiting, teased and kept waiting over federal funds so they'd go ahead and scrounge their own.

Mesogen
12-22-2008, 03:14 PM
Good try but you fail to realize the differences between this situation and Katrina.

First off this is a man-made government created situation. The government / TVA is WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for this.

Katrina / N.O. was a natural disaster. And while the govt was incompetent in their response, there was nothing the govt could've done to prevent it.

FTFA:
Investigators were trying to determine exactly what caused the breach, but the TVA spokesman said heavy rains and freezing temperatures may be to blame.


I'd call that natural, eh?

And what could the TVA have done to prevent this? Build a better floodwall or levee (dike)?

It's the same situation. The only difference is scale.



Also it was widely known that N.O. would flood if a major hurricane ever hit, the levees would break, and the city would be under water. In fact it had happened previous. In the TN situation this government created ash pool had no pre-conceived ideas about it ever failing. And besides, some of these homes, if not all, were probably built prior to the govt / TVA creating the dike.

Nice try, but no cigar...

Most of N.O. was built PRIOR to the levees. Yeah, a lot of the houses were that old. The levee system isn't as old as you might think.

Matt Collins
12-22-2008, 04:16 PM
Wish the damned Federal morass would get the hell out of it. Wish they'd let the state of Tennessee inspect anything the residents of the state want inspected, I wish the TVA was dissolved and the federal government stripped of their usurped and unconstitutional power in this area.

Matt Collins
12-22-2008, 04:19 PM
FTFA:
Investigators were trying to determine exactly what caused the breach, but the TVA spokesman said heavy rains and freezing temperatures may be to blame.


I'd call that natural, eh?
Nope. Rains and cold temps are not impossible in TN. Granted it's not as frequent as say Pennsylvania, but it's not impossible. It's bad engineering on the part of TVA.

"Nature" may have been the trigger, but this was completely the fault of the TVA for not having a dike properly engineered. This could've been avoided in other words.


And what could the TVA have done to prevent this? Build a better floodwall or levee (dike)? Yep. Or not at all seeing as the TVA is an unconstitutional entity created by FDR as a make-work program.

WRellim
12-22-2008, 04:54 PM
Good try but you fail to realize the differences between this situation and Katrina.

First off this is a man-made government created situation. The government / TVA is WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for this.

Katrina / N.O. was a natural disaster. And while the govt was incompetent in their response, there was nothing the govt could've done to prevent it.

Also it was widely known that N.O. would flood if a major hurricane ever hit, the levees would break, and the city would be under water. In fact it had happened previous. In the TN situation this government created ash pool had no pre-conceived ideas about it ever failing. And besides, some of these homes, if not all, were probably built prior to the govt / TVA creating the dike.

Nice try, but no cigar...

Actually, while I don't disagree with your tirade against TVA, I would protest that New Orleans was a man-made disaster; it was a disaster that has been waiting to happen for decades. Hurricanes are not a "new" or unexpected phenomena for the gulf coast... Katrina was not a once in a millennium "tsunami" nor was the city itself immune to lesser catastrophes.

I remember when I visited New Orleans back in the mid 1980's being told repeatedly by "proud" (?) Nawlins folk that majority of the city itself was several feet below sea level, and that if the pumps (or the dikes) ever failed the city would flood pretty quickly; and that in fact it had happened several times before.

While every location on the earth is potentially subject to some types of major "natural disaster" (whether tornadoes, earthquakes, drought, etc) -- it is rather obvious that the probabilities are NOT all alike.

Anyone who build their house near an active volcano, over a known fault, or in a known flood plain or previously "swampy" land (think Florida) is taking a significantly higher risk.

And for those foolish enough to build beneath a dam, or in any other area dependent upon continuous, properly maintained man-made technology... well, seriously!

All dams, dikes, pumps, berms, etc will eventually fail. Just as all buildings will eventually collapse.

Nothing, no matter how well designed or maintained, will last forever;

Eventually either the surrounding environment will change and overwhelm the assumptions underlying the original design parameters -- or someone doing the maintenance or upgrades will make a mistake in calculations -- or poor quality materials be used, or workmanship will be less than adequate... and down it comes.

torchbearer
12-22-2008, 04:56 PM
Wow, and the TVA was one of the few things generating a profit for the government.
Oh well.

torchbearer
12-22-2008, 04:57 PM
Actually, while I don't disagree with your tirade against TVA, I would protest that New Orleans was a man-made disaster; it was a disaster that has been waiting to happen for decades. Hurricanes are not a "new" or unexpected phenomena for the gulf coast... Katrina was not a once in a millennium "tsunami" nor was the city itself immune to lesser catastrophes.

I remember when I visited New Orleans back in the mid 1980's being told repeatedly by "proud" (?) Nawlins folk that majority of the city itself was several feet below sea level, and that if the pumps (or the dikes) ever failed the city would flood pretty quickly; and that in fact it had happened several times before.

While every location on the earth is potentially subject to some types of major "natural disaster" (whether tornadoes, earthquakes, drought, etc) -- it is rather obvious that the probabilities are NOT all alike.

Anyone who build their house near an active volcano, over a known fault, or in a known flood plain or previously "swampy" land (think Florida) is taking a significantly higher risk.

And for those foolish enough to build beneath a dam, or in any other area dependent upon continuous, properly maintained man-made technology... well, seriously!

All dams, dikes, pumps, berms, etc will eventually fail. Just as all buildings will eventually collapse.

Nothing, no matter how well designed or maintained, will last forever;

Eventually either the surrounding environment will change and overwhelm the assumptions underlying the original design parameters -- or someone doing the maintenance or upgrades will make a mistake in calculations -- or poor quality materials be used, or workmanship will be less than adequate... and down it comes.

Guess what they did with the levees afterwards?
The rebuilt them to handle the same Cat 3 huricane that is could handle before.

nobody's_hero
12-22-2008, 06:13 PM
Wasn't the TVA one of those "New deal" projects?

Obama's gonna be all over this, wanting to construct dams and power plants on every creek and duck pond. And save the economy. :(

TruthisTreason
12-22-2008, 06:53 PM
I wish the TVA was dissolved and the federal government stripped of their usurped and unconstitutional power in this area.

How are you liking that 20% fuel surcharge? :o

Matt Collins
12-22-2008, 09:30 PM
Wasn't the TVA one of those "New deal" projects?

Obama's gonna be all over this, wanting to construct dams and power plants on every creek and duck pond. And save the economy. :(Yes, it's like when someone is broke and in debt their financial counselor tells them to go and remodel their bathroom and kitchen. :rolleyes:

Matt Collins
12-22-2008, 09:34 PM
How are you liking that 20% fuel surcharge? :oI just wish it came with Vaseline :mad:

TruthisTreason
12-22-2008, 09:39 PM
I just wish it came with Vaseline :mad:

Added 60$ + to my last bill.:( I haven't heard any peep of it coming down; fuel is way down.:mad: