How to win over Christians

[Matt Collins]

My sister is a 39 year old Southern Baptist mother of 3 and sends out e-mails all the time to me and all of her church with whatever chain e-mail happens to come across her inbox (you know - God will bless you 80 times if you send this e-mail out to over 50 people within the next 10 minutes etc). :rolleyes:

Anyway, she sent one out tonight about the Values Voter debate next week and of course CC'd everyone on the list including me. So I responded "reply to all" with the following:


_____________________________
Laura,

Did you know that Fred Thompson was a lobbyist for abortion activists?

According to the NY Times in July:
"Billing records show that former Senator Fred Thompson spent nearly 20 hours working as a lobbyist on behalf of a group seeking to ease restrictive federal rules on abortion counseling in the 1990s"

Article is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://gk.nytimes.com/mem/gatekeeper.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26URIQ3DhttpQ3AQ2FQ2Fwww.nytimes.comQ2F2 007Q2F07Q2F19Q2FusQ2FpoliticsQ2F19thompson.%3Cbr%3 EhtmlQ26OQ51Q3D_rQ513D3Q5126orefQ513DsloginQ5126or efQ513DsloginQ26OPQ3D5fb783b5Q512FJ2B9JQ5%3Cbr%3E1 3Be6t(eeoQ5126JQ5126MM.JM.JLQ512BJ7tJPeTDoD6tJLQ51 2BozehPtea!zohT&OP=60dc1091Q2FQ2BlXWQ2BorQ7DXMKxQ2B1Q7DqMuuoHQ2BuQ 60fQ7DX1Q7DXKQ2BZMQ7DX4XXuXQ60Q3B1Q7Dq


ALSO -
Rudy Guiliani thinks that "abortions are a Constitutional right...and that there ought to be taxpayer funded abortions"
You can see him say that in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QZe1j4csMq8

Mitt Romney is pro abortion too and says:
"I believe abortion should be safe and legal in this country...and I will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose"
You can see him say that in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=dzZC92IXHyw


The more and more I look at the Republicans the more nauseated I get. The only exception is Congressman Ron Paul from Texas. He seems to be the only honest and conservative politician running. Oh and Ron Paul delivered 4000+ babies as a doctor so you can guess as to what his stance on abortion is.

Dr. Ron Paul's short statement of faith is here for everyone to see:
http://www.covenantnews.com/ronpaul070721.htm

Pass this on to your friends if you wish. I am sure they would want to know.

Your "favorite" brother, ;-)

-Matt

[Matt Collins]

Anyway, my point is that if we HAMMER those points about "the other guys" and then talk about how Ron Paul is the best choice for the Christian vote, I think we can win some people over.

[jblosser]

Repeating myself from another thread:


You don't need to pander to Christians to get their (our) vote. Ron's statement of faith has been one of the most powerful tools for getting churches to listen to him because it does *not* pander and it talks about the Christian half of the origins of the rule of law in this country. The doctrine of Just War that Ron cites as one reason we should have a humble foreign policy comes from St. Augustine, for one example.

The biggest thing that keeps Christians from voting for someone like Ron is their confusion that if something is evil and must be stopped, government is the tool to do it. They forget that the Bible teaches that man is sinful and depraved and will not do good things. The Biblical Christian view of modern government is a minarchist one: we need a government defined as that group which is allowed to assert itself against the rights of others so we don't kill each other and can prosecute criminals after the fact, but because that government is necessarily made up of depraved men it must not be allowed to do anything that doesn't actually require that use of force, or it only becomes a target for corruption and depravity itself.

If you want to reach Christians with this notion, carry around some copies of Bastiat's _The Law_ in your bag. They are like $1 on Amazon. This is one of the first books Ron recommends to people, and it does an incredible job of explaining in terms a 4 year old can understand exactly why we need a negative view of law and not a positive one. Like most documents from the 1800s it is written with an explicit view that God is real and therefore speaks particularly well to Christians, but non-theists can skip the God parts and see the truth in the rest as well. The non-theist position hasn't come up with a good argument why man should be inherentely good vs. selfish either, after all.

[tnvoter]

well done matt

[Matt Collins]

well done mattThanks

[Shellshock1918]

As a Christian myself, I see the departure from the Just War Theory, the fact that Dr. Paul has delivered 4000 babies and the fact that he has been pro-life, good enough reasons to vote for him on moral grounds.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Good going.

Next time, inform them that Fred Thompson lobbied for TAXPAYER-FUNDED abortion, so all those Christians can pay for the abortions out of their own money. That was what the "easing of restrictions" was all about. (Regardless of how you feel about abortion, I assume everyone on this list could agree that tax dollars shouldn't be spent there.)

[wgadget]

I had fun the other day debunking Huckleberry, and all it took was showing that he's a softie on illegal immigration and wants a nanny state.

I directed them to www.ontheissues.org

Worked like a charm.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

well... I think maybe say "would jesus support institutional murder?" "would jesus tell people how to run their lives?" "would jesus be a homophobe?"

I'd probably start there :p

I'm agnostic... but I picture jesus as a live and let live kind of guy... ancient hippie lol

[micahnelson]

well... I think maybe say "would jesus support institutional murder?" "would jesus tell people how to run their lives?" "would jesus be a homophobe?"

I'd probably start there :p

A tad agressive, lol. But I know you are kidding.

Seriously, the Just War doctrine.

Mention that Babylon and Persia (Iraq and Iran) have been fighting since the old testament, is there any reason why we think we can change that? Is it even our place?

Ron Paul is still married to his first wife and they have 5 kids.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I think libertarianism is the best place for christians. Yes, I was kidding. I think my suggestion would be a great way to make them hate you lol

[Matt Collins]

Next time, inform them that Fred Thompson lobbied for TAXPAYER-FUNDED abortion Ahh.. the hot lady from Minnesota again... :D

Do you have a link to back this up?

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Ahh.. the hot lady from Minnesota again... :D

Do you have a link to back this up?

Here's the first link from a very quick google:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07070906.html

"In his capacity as lobbyist Thompson allegedly worked to have the George H.W. Bush Administration reverse a policy barring federal aid for health clinics that promote abortion."

I should probably find something more substantial, but to bed for now.

[Matt Collins]

Here's the first link from a very quick google:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07070906.html

"In his capacity as lobbyist Thompson allegedly worked to have the George H.W. Bush Administration reverse a policy barring federal aid for health clinics that promote abortion."

I should probably find something more substantial, but to bed for now.

Thanks!

[Matt Collins]

Anyone had any success with these?

[Captain Shays]

This is a response I made in a Christian forum relative to Ron Paul vs Mike Huckabee. I hope this information helps.

There is another HUGE difference between Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee with regard to government education/home schooling and government mandated mental health screening of our children.
Below I provide some information that many of you may not know about but should before you step into the voting booth. A few years ago as part of the Dept of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act, the government proposed mandatory mental health screenings for ALL school aged children and eventually this program is expected to expand to ALL US citizens. If or when the screeners have determined that your child has a problem they will be required to take the medication that is prescribed. This may include rittilin, prozac or some other anti-depressant.

PLEASE read all the information that you can absorb about this.
Also;

There is an international effort through the World Trade Orginization (WTO) to control ALL substances that go into every body on the planet. No, this is not a conspiracy and I'm not making this up. Europe already has Coedex Alentarius in place and they can't even get simple vitomens or other natural suppliments there, without a doctors prescription.
Codex and many of our elected officials are also behind this effort to have mandatory mental health screenings for all children.

This issue goes hand in hand with the (vital to Christians) issue of home schooling and parental rights.
Federal Funding for Mental Health Screening for Kids by Ron Paul
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul258.html

Congressional Control of Health Care is Dangerous for Children by Ron Paul
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul411.html

A Week of Bush is Like a Year of Clinton
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul411.html

Watch These Codex Videos on Mandatory Health Screening
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php

What is Huckabee’s Position on These Programs?


Health has been a special area of concern for Huckabee. Arkansas is among the few states to devote all of its tobacco-settlement dollars to health care.
A particularly ambitious program is AR Kids, which provides health coverage to some 200,000 children. As a result, Arkansas in recent years has had one of the best records nationwide in lowering the number of its citizens without heath insurance. “It was a great program and a great idea and he takes some credit for it and I think rightfully so,” says Max Brantley, editor of the Arkansas Times and a frequent Huckabee critic.
In addition to pushing health efforts in his state — including the nation’s most ambitious childhood obesity-screening program — Huckabee has made the issue central to his current chairmanship of the National Governors’ Association. He has devoted much of his time in recent months to promoting NGA’s proposed Medicaid changes, which formed a basis of discussion of the program in Washington this fall.
http://www.governing.com/poy/2005/huckabee.htm

Cloaked in an other wise, very complimentary article about Mike Huckabee is a very dangerous statist position.

Home Schoolers World Wide for Ron Paul.
A Wealth of Information and Comparisons Between Ron Paul and Huckabee on Home Schooling. This is very important when considering the Bush’s “No Child Left Un-Drugged” policies and the plans to have mandatory mental health screenings for our children. While Ron Paul’s effort to require parental notification went down in flames, it shows his efforts to help parents maintain control over the health care choices of the their children to be valiant.
Both home schooling and mandatory mental health screeing go hand in hand and I promise you this will be a HUGE issue in the next few years.
Remember that no parental notification is allowed and if these health screenings reveal a problem your child will be required BY LAW to ingest the medications that the screeners say they need. This alone is reason enough to choose Ron Paul over Huckabee.
http://homeschoolersforpaul.blogspot.com/

[rooteroa]

good stuff

[weatherbill]

I have a note in my flyer of Huckabee of how he is all about neocon pro war politics and anyone who is for that is going along with CFR, one world government/globalization agenda. Most christians know that is part of the "antichrist's" plan, a one world government, so for them to vote for the huckster would be supporting antichrist agenda. taxhikemike.org is site exposing the huckster for who he really is. Also, the CATO Institute gave Huck a D rating for spending 3 times the maount of inflation while gov. of AK. He just a tax n spend liberal clocking himself in "christian" garb.......A s aChristian, it is the most vile thing to me, that he would pander using Jesus to get votes and for a corrupt foreign policy at that! When I look into the eyes of the huckster, I see fear behind those eyes. I see genuineness in the eyes of Ron Paul, but there's something troubling when I looking into the eyes of Huck!
As far as Fred Special Interest Thompson, his record speaks for itself! He is so boring and ugly, he could never beat hillary or obama anyways, so why would christians vote for him over Ron Paul who has a way better conservative record than ole fred. I can;t help it. i had to say that. When I look at fred, I have to turn away. he is one ugly mug.....poor guy..... well actually, he's not poor. he's banked millions as a DC lobbyist for 18 years....... why doesn't the media ever talk of this???? my oh my....does that not in itsefl tell you something is freeking wrong with the media, like controlled!
I hope we shock the vote big time and send a message to all these liars in conservative clothing that we are informed!

[jmdrake]

well... I think maybe say "would jesus support institutional murder?" "would jesus tell people how to run their lives?" "would jesus be a homophobe?"

I'd probably start there :p

I'm agnostic... but I picture jesus as a live and let live kind of guy... ancient hippie lol

Well your first two messages might go over well. Actually no, the second message wouldn't work. Jesus definitely told people how to run their lives. He was a religious teacher after all. He just wasn't about His kingdom being promoted by force.

As for the "homophobe" comment, that's a good way to turn Christians off. Unfortunately the "homophobe" term has been used for more than just hate mongers that beat up gays and tie them to fences. For example, some radicals have tagged beloved gospel artist Donnie McClurklin as being a "homophobe" simply for advocating that it's possible for some gays to leave that lifestyle. But Donnie was raped as a boy and it's well documented that male rape victims have issues with their sexuality. Rather than simply chalk this up as someone overcoming a painful past, some in the gay community have treated Donnie as "public enemy # 1" to the point of calling for Barak Obama to quit being seen with him.

So talking about not being a "homophobe" raises the specter of politically correct "hate crimes" laws that Christians feel will mean the government getting into their pulpits and telling them what they can and can't preach.

Here's my suggestion. The neocons have been appealing to fear. But 2 Timothy 1:7 says "God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love and of power and of a strong mind". Ask Christian friends who still think that we have to give up our freedoms because "the constitution is not a suicide pact" if such a spirit of fear could possible come from God?

Regards,

John M. Drake

[LJHudd]

Pat Buchanon supports Ron Paul

http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=831
Conservative Republicans Have Only One Choice In 2008

http://buchanan.org/blog/?cat=25

Pat Buchanon has a new book coming out...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9pb.htm


>

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/election2008.php (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/election2008.php)

>
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/election2008/reps/MikeHuckabee.html
(http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/election2008/reps/MikeHuckabee.html)

THIS is very good to read:

THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT: DUMB AND DUMBER (http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan15.htm)


By the way, I'm religious (Christian) and I'm Republican (but not for long if Dr. Paul doesn't win - however I believe he will) -- but I do not consider myself a part of "the religious right" -- I support Ron Paul - because I studied the issues and the candidates and he is the only one that has an answer for all of America's problems. (Well, that's just one reason why I support him) :)

[yaz]

maybe someone should post this on the huckabee forums?

[Matt Collins]

maybe someone should post this on the huckabee forums?

Which part?

[L.A.mama]

Ron Paul is still married to his first wife and they have 5 kids.

Dr. and Mrs. Paul have a beautiful family! I think the YouTube clip, The Ron Paul story can go a long way in convincing pro-family Christians as it features not only the Paul's children but granchildren singing!

It's an easy url to remember. Just send folks to RONPAUL.ORG (http://ronpaul.org/)

Great OP, btw. I have a single page dedicated to showing Christians why Huckabee is NOT who they should give their vote to and why Ron Paul IS. I would be open to suggestions for and help in making the page better! It's here:

http://www.freewebs.com/daughtersofsara/christians4ronpaul.htm

[Matt Collins]

We could simply show the video of Huckabee telling everyone that his opponents should commit suicide.

[freedom-maniac]

"Ye shall proclaim liberty throughout all the land," Leviticus 25:10