Campaign For Liberty-- too Ron Paul-centric

[LittleLightShining]

Now that the store is officially open I have some concerns.

It's my belief that the Campaign For Liberty should move beyond Ron Paul. That doesn't mean that we should not be ignoring him (after all it is his organization). HOWEVER, in an effort to attract as many people as we possibly can I think we should be focusing more on the message and less on the man.

[WRellim]

Now that the store is officially open I have some concerns.

It's my belief that the Campaign For Liberty should move beyond Ron Paul. That doesn't mean that we should not be ignoring him (after all it is his organization). HOWEVER, in an effort to attract as many people as we possibly can I think we should be focusing more on the message and less on the man.


But do you mean to imply that one of the main purposes of CFL (other than employment for staffers, etc) shouldn't to act as the non-profit "Church of Ron Paul" -- and therefore to sell copies of his collected sermons, oops I meant "books of his essays" and leftover campaign shirts and stuff...

Seriously?

[LittleLightShining]

But do you mean to imply that one of the main purposes of CFL (other than employment for staffers, etc) shouldn't to act as the non-profit "Church of Ron Paul" -- and therefore to sell copies of his collected sermons, oops I meant "books of his essays" and leftover campaign shirts and stuff...

Seriously?
I think you must be being sarcastic but YES. I'm all for selling books and Campaign For Liberty merchandise but the leftover campaign materials really bug me. I was truly hoping that the store would feature more outreach materials-- slim jims, pamphlets, dvd's, etc which we could use to push the freedom and liberty message and reinforce the message not the man.

I am pretty active in my local and county GOP and there are plenty of folks who I think would be much more receptive to what we're trying to do if the Campaign For Liberty wasn't so focused on Ron Paul. Unfortunately there is still a stigma attached with the association.

[Truth Warrior]

Without Ron there is NO CFL.<IMHO>

[LittleLightShining]

Without Ron there is NO CFL.<IMHO> Yes and no.

[Sandra]

No, without Paul this movement would not be here.

[LittleLightShining]

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud but we saw during the presidential campaign what the majority of folks-- and conservatives-- thought about Ron Paul and how willing they were to support him.

I guess I thought that the Campaign For Liberty was more of a venue for us to pick up the message and run with it according to how our state committees concurred.

How can I say, "The Campaign For Liberty is about the Constitution and sound money and a sane foreign policy and a smaller decentralized government" then send people to the website and it's Ron Paul town?

I love him. I admire and respect him. But I do not worship him and the fact is that WE are the Campaign For Liberty. It's the Campaign for LIBERTY, not the (as WRellim put it) Church of Ron Paul.

[MRoCkEd]

good point

[Sandra]

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud but we saw during the presidential campaign what the majority of folks-- and conservatives-- thought about Ron Paul and how willing they were to support him.

I guess I thought that the Campaign For Liberty was more of a venue for us to pick up the message and run with it according to how our state committees concurred.

How can I say, "The Campaign For Liberty is about the Constitution and sound money and a sane foreign policy and a smaller decentralized government" then send people to the website and it's Ron Paul town?

I love him. I admire and respect him. But I do not worship him and the fact is that WE are the Campaign For Liberty. It's the Campaign for LIBERTY, not the (as WRellim put it) Church of Ron Paul.


What you saw were professionally paid pundits, not conservatives. You should know by now what that was about.

And besides it was his message they attacked, not so much the messenger. Do NOT let the MSM change your stance on Constitutional liberty to make it more palatable to these people, they weren't even real.

[Truth Warrior]

Yes and no. Well that pretty well covers the range of possibilities.<IMHO> ;) :)

[LittleLightShining]

What you saw were professionally paid pundits, not conservatives. You should know by now what that was about.

And besides it was his message they attacked, not so much the messenger. Do NOT let the MSM change your stance on Constitutional liberty to make it more palatable to these people, they weren't even real.
This has nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the people I know, the people in my local, county and state GOP who unfortunately were affected by the media. I know these people, I know where they stand on issues. There is still a stigma attached to Ron Paul and people like Mike Huckabee isn't doing conservatism any favors.

I'm not changing my stance on the issues. These people know me, know I've been an unabashed RP supporter and say things like, "Well, she likes Ron Paul but we still like her." They're open to the message NOT the man. It stinks but it's a fact. And if it's the case here I can assure you it's everywhere.

Are you involved in a party committee? What do you see on the ground?

[Bruno]

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud but we saw during the presidential campaign what the majority of folks-- and conservatives-- thought about Ron Paul and how willing they were to support him.

I guess I thought that the Campaign For Liberty was more of a venue for us to pick up the message and run with it according to how our state committees concurred.

How can I say, "The Campaign For Liberty is about the Constitution and sound money and a sane foreign policy and a smaller decentralized government" then send people to the website and it's Ron Paul town?

I love him. I admire and respect him. But I do not worship him and the fact is that WE are the Campaign For Liberty. It's the Campaign for LIBERTY, not the (as WRellim put it) Church of Ron Paul.

Sometimes the truth is hard to say and harder to hear. :( There are always some that will not look farther into the Campaign for Liberty simply because of their preconceived notions of Ron Paul or his supporters due to the effective MSM smear campaign.


No, without Paul this movement would not be here.

We owe him a national debt of thanks. :D


Without Ron there is NO CFL.<IMHO>


True, and this is his vision he is carrying out as he see it.

There is room in the Liberty movement to either have an existing group emerge or a new one form, detached from any particular person but encorporating the ideas of many, such as Paul, Schiff, Mises, Jefferson, etc. Very similar message, grassroots-based, and decentralized. It might also be more popular if it has is Independent, not Republican or Libertarian based.

[WRellim]

It's the Campaign for LIBERTY, not the (as WRellim put it) Church of Ron Paul.


Ah, but you see I am being BOTH sarcastic AND blatantly honest at the same time (they are NOT mutually exclusive things you know).

One of the major problems with CFL (and the "movement" in general) is that it HAS become, in essence... the Church of Ron Paul.

(And some would say I'm being overly nice... most people, GOP'ers especially... will see it as the Personality CULT of Ron Paul.)

:(


And the implications (as far as other politicians are concerned) is that ANY association they have with CFL will mean that they are then perceived as RP's "minions" or "disciples" -- and trust me, VERY FEW politicians (especially not current office holders) will want to be publicly linked that way.

[ingrid]

This has nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the people I know, the people in my local, county and state GOP who unfortunately were affected by the media. I know these people, I know where they stand on issues. There is still a stigma attached to Ron Paul and people like Mike Huckabee isn't doing conservatism any favors.

I'm not changing my stance on the issues. These people know me, know I've been an unabashed RP supporter and say things like, "Well, she likes Ron Paul but we still like her." They're open to the message NOT the man. It stinks but it's a fact. And if it's the case here I can assure you it's everywhere.

Are you involved in a party committee? What do you see on the ground?

I'm involved with my local GOP. I think a bigger problem with the GOP people is going to be that the C4L is not Republican specific rather than it's overly Ron Paul.

When I was telling GOP people about the Republican Liberty Caucus, the most common question was if it had anything to do with Libertarian party, because they didn't want to be a part of it if it was.

[Conza88]

I'm involved with my local GOP. I think a bigger problem with the GOP people is going to be that the C4L is not Republican specific rather than it's overly Ron Paul.

When I was telling GOP people about the Republican Liberty Caucus, the most common question was if it had anything to do with Libertarian party, because they didn't want to be a part of it if it was.

Then they can go off into the woods and die, alternatively go jump off a cliff for all I care.

These people are your oppressors. They seek to use the state and impose their will upon you. They are immoral in the highest regard.

Why are they scared of the Liberty Caucus? Those guys sold out.
Why are they scared of the Libertarian Party? Those guys sold out.

And if they are scared of it - because it claims to be the PART of PRINCIPLE, and they oppose it, even on the grounds of what it APPEARS or PRESENTS itself to be, they fail remarkably and have none of my sympathy when the FEMA camps open. </rant>

[TruthisTreason]

Now that the store is officially open I have some concerns.

It's my belief that the Campaign For Liberty should move beyond Ron Paul. That doesn't mean that we should not be ignoring him (after all it is his organization). HOWEVER, in an effort to attract as many people as we possibly can I think we should be focusing more on the message and less on the man.

I agree. Although, I'm a very big Ron Paul fan.:D

Whoever was in charge of putting together the store and merch., needs some help. I'd have to go weak sauce on the store launch. A month ago I couldn't wait to order the RFR DVD and maybe something else, now the store is open and I've ordered nothing.

I've designed shirts, stickers, DVDs, keychains, etc.. for bands in the past, so, I know a little about putting together a online store. Just giving my 2 cents. I know I was blasted the last time I criticized CFL.:rolleyes:

[ronpaulhawaii]

Issues raised in this thread are a large reason for the following thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=171696

[Pete]

I thoroughly agree with the OP.

I am not (yet) active in party politics, but know a lot of traditional Republicans, having been one myself. If 70% of the American public were going around wishing that they had voted for Ron Paul, then branding CFL in his image would be a smart move. However, he has been painted as an idealistic fringer and most people shut off their minds immediately upon hearing his name.

During the campaign, I sold Ron Paul to a reluctant audience based upon his great ideas. The ideas are the easy sell, so I think we ought to stick to them for now.

I was considering complaining to HQ about excessive RP adulation on the CFL home page, and now they've gone way over the top.

As regards new liberty-oriented portals and forums, I'd rather that HQ saw the light and started casting themselves as a legitimate think tank and lobbying organization and not 'Ron Paul 2012' or 'The Ron Paul Bookstore and Obsolete T-Shirt Emporium, Inc.'

[hypnagogue]

Totally agree with the concerns raised. It seems everyone is still stuck in Ron Paul 2008 mode. We need to shift this into the Liberty movement. That has not happened yet.

[WRellim]

Totally agree with the concerns raised. It seems everyone is still stuck in Ron Paul 2008 mode. We need to shift this into the Liberty movement. That has not happened yet.

That is more profound than you might think.

The whole "focus" of CFL seems to be (to my mind anyway) on refighting the past campaign.

"Precinct Leaders"??? Precincts are very useful and NEED to be organized... but at the proper time.

And that means in the run-up to the primaries. Organizing it now when so many people will "fall off" long before the next election seems rather pointless and foolish waste of a lot of people's efforts (it's the equivalent of running campaign ads on TV right now).
Its the equivalent of a farmer who is sorry because his corn crop failed this last year because he planted his corn too late in the spring -- so he decides he's NOT going to make THAT mistake again. No siree, this time he's going to get a "jump" on it. So he decides there is no time like the present, and starts planting his corn in the middle of winter, before the ground has even thawed out. He figures THAT should be early enough!
But hey... I'm sure it will all work out great!

[LittleLightShining]

"Precinct Leaders"??? Precincts are very useful and NEED to be organized... but at the proper time.


No, I disagree with this. They do need to be organized now. Connections in the community need to be made now. Background information on political parties, candidates and precinct demographics need to be collected now. Why? So there is time to organize and plan a strategy. 2 years is not that far off.

I don't know about everyone else but I've given up having any kind of impact on national politics. Maybe if we're more organized and can find good opponents to run against the incumbent Congressmen and Senators, fine. But as far as I'm concerned we need action at the state and local level. We need a means of distributing information to the electorate now, 2, 6 and 18 months from now so that they can see the patterns in policy making that those in office are giving us. We need to be a cohesive unit bringing issues to the surface and in an organized way holding our elected representatives (be they JP, sheriff, school board member or state senator) accountable for their actions and being at the ready to present our neighbors with alternatives.

[liberteebell]

This has nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the people I know, the people in my local, county and state GOP who unfortunately were affected by the media. I know these people, I know where they stand on issues. There is still a stigma attached to Ron Paul and people like Mike Huckabee isn't doing conservatism any favors.

I'm not changing my stance on the issues. These people know me, know I've been an unabashed RP supporter and say things like, "Well, she likes Ron Paul but we still like her." They're open to the message NOT the man. It stinks but it's a fact. And if it's the case here I can assure you it's everywhere.

Are you involved in a party committee? What do you see on the ground?

+2008

I have and am experiencing precisely the same thing. I am often treated as though I have an idol-worshiping mental problem that I'll get over some day. :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, by speaking more to the message rather than the messenger, I have been quite successful locally, even "turning" some hard core neo-cons.

My local committee is BEGGING for the couple of us RP supporters to stay involved. They're in desperate need of republicans these days and some on my committee are well aware of the problems (some even like RP a lot but still think the islamists want to kill us all).

[LittleLightShining]

+2008

I have and am experiencing precisely the same thing. I am often treated as though I have an idol-worshiping mental problem that I'll get over some day. :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, by speaking more to the message rather than the messenger, I have been quite successful locally, even "turning" some hard core neo-cons.

My local committee is BEGGING for the couple of us RP supporters to stay involved. They're in desperate need of republicans these days and some on my committee are well aware of the problems (some even like RP a lot but still think the islamists want to kill us all).
Thanks :)

So I just got home from my county meeting where I was elected Finance Chair. Woohoo! And I also put a plug in for the Campaign For Liberty.

On the way out one of the ladies (whose husband gave me a paper last month from a Muslim woman who is apparently going around the country telling people how bad Islam is) gave me a kiss on the cheek and said I was a brick. So believe me, I hear you!

Keep fighting the good fight!

[liberteebell]

No, I disagree with this. They do need to be organized now. Connections in the community need to be made now. Background information on political parties, candidates and precinct demographics need to be collected now. Why? So there is time to organize and plan a strategy. 2 years is not that far off.

I don't know about everyone else but I've given up having any kind of impact on national politics. Maybe if we're more organized and can find good opponents to run against the incumbent Congressmen and Senators, fine. But as far as I'm concerned we need action at the state and local level. We need a means of distributing information to the electorate now, 2, 6 and 18 months from now so that they can see the patterns in policy making that those in office are giving us. We need to be a cohesive unit bringing issues to the surface and in an organized way holding our elected representatives (be they JP, sheriff, school board member or state senator) accountable for their actions and being at the ready to present our neighbors with alternatives.

Another + 2008!

I spoke with a rep from C4L the other day and he said that the precinct leader program would also include campaigning for specific issues, such as in VA, Real (stoopid) ID and yes, local candidates.

Not that I don't think we ought to do anything at the national level but I completely and totally agree that the action and possibilities are at the local and state levels. Grassroots ----> bottom up ----> eventually to the top.

Just the weight of the vote alone at the local level and the fact that so few come out for local elections makes our chances sooooooooooooooooo much better.

[LittleLightShining]

not that i don't think we ought to do anything at the national level but i completely and totally agree that the action and possibilities are at the local and state levels. Grassroots ----> bottom up ----> eventually to the top.

Just the weight of the vote alone at the local level and the fact that so few come out for local elections makes our chances sooooooooooooooooo much better.exactly!

[ingrid]

Then they can go off into the woods and die, alternatively go jump off a cliff for all I care.

These people are your oppressors. They seek to use the state and impose their will upon you. They are immoral in the highest regard.

Why are they scared of the Liberty Caucus? Those guys sold out.
Why are they scared of the Libertarian Party? Those guys sold out.

And if they are scared of it - because it claims to be the PART of PRINCIPLE, and they oppose it, even on the grounds of what it APPEARS or PRESENTS itself to be, they fail remarkably and have none of my sympathy when the FEMA camps open. </rant>

Because they are Republicans with a capital R, they don't want to help libertarians get elected.

I did the same thing when I refused to participate in the August 8th money bomb that Break the Matrix did. The cause was good..I don't support FISA and I don't support Steny Hoyer...however the money raised would go to democrats running against Steny during the next primary. Who are these future democrats? Are they just as pro-gun control, pro-taxes, etc as Steny?

I would rather my money go toward Collins Bailey, a Ron Paul supporter and liberty candidate, who was running against Steny. Or towards flyers to educate people about what happened. So that's why I didn't support that money bomb, even though I agreed with the cause.

[ingrid]

+2008

I have and am experiencing precisely the same thing. I am often treated as though I have an idol-worshiping mental problem that I'll get over some day. :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, by speaking more to the message rather than the messenger, I have been quite successful locally, even "turning" some hard core neo-cons.

My local committee is BEGGING for the couple of us RP supporters to stay involved. They're in desperate need of republicans these days and some on my committee are well aware of the problems (some even like RP a lot but still think the islamists want to kill us all).

Well, if you are 'Ron Paul this' and 'Ron Paul that' you won't get anywhere.

The only Republican whose name you are allowed to constantly mention is Reagan. :D


I do mention Ron Paul, but I don't harp on it. I have found though that since the economic crisis, they've been more interested in him. 'What does Ron Paul have to say about the economic situation now? What does Ron Paul think will happen next?'

At the Republican convention a few weeks back, the chairman of the Maryland Republican Party asked another supporter and a friend of mine if Ron Paul was happy right now.

So he asked him why Ron Paul should be happy.

"Because," he said, "he was right about everything." But then he added Ron Paul would have won if he wasn't such a "damn isolationist" :rolleyes:

[Pete]

No, I disagree with this. They do need to be organized now. Connections in the community need to be made now. Background information on political parties, candidates and precinct demographics need to be collected now. Why? So there is time to organize and plan a strategy. 2 years is not that far off.

I don't know about everyone else but I've given up having any kind of impact on national politics. Maybe if we're more organized and can find good opponents to run against the incumbent Congressmen and Senators, fine. But as far as I'm concerned we need action at the state and local level. We need a means of distributing information to the electorate now, 2, 6 and 18 months from now so that they can see the patterns in policy making that those in office are giving us. We need to be a cohesive unit bringing issues to the surface and in an organized way holding our elected representatives (be they JP, sheriff, school board member or state senator) accountable for their actions and being at the ready to present our neighbors with alternatives.

Well said!

If we were up to strength, I'd love for us to distribute a newsletter that could be tailored to each community, with information about local, state, and national issues, and just blow people away with (1) how our governments are selling us out with both hands, with the press ignoring or misrepresenting the issues all the while, and (2) the power of grassroots activism. It's a small step from this to inviting people to join telephone and e-mail chains and really get a hue and cry going when things happen.

The idiots, ahem, esteemed legislators in Ohio today passed a requirement that all 4-8 year olds must have auto booster seats. If CFL were fully operational, we could probably get this thing repealed in about a week. Well, at least we have the tabling of the call for a Con Con as a successful action in which CFL was instrumental.

We need to get acquainted with our neighbors and earn their respect. If we are at their homes every 4-6 weeks with hot issues and corrective actions, we will accomplish this, and they will come to trust our judgment on future matters, and national issues.

[Godfather89]

I think C4L should move beyond RP. HOWEVER, when he speaks we should listen... You know? This shouldn't just be one congressman group but every Americans group we need to grow and expand rapidly! We should be able to focus on just what the matters are:

* The Constitution
* Small Government
* Low Taxes
* Free Market
* Liberty

It started with one man, it ends with all people. Their not above us they are our servants yet we are equal to them. America is about self-sufficiency wouldn't it be just about that time to work in a self-sufficient way and be individuals without the Ron Paul Religion? Yes we can thank RP and all of that, and he does deserve it but the time for rewards is not yet here we have work to do and we cannot be based on one man.

[Matt Collins]

Well that pretty well covers the range of possibilities.<IMHO> ;) :)Don't forget "maybe" :p

[Matt Collins]

Well I am running into the problem of getting people involved. The best way to get people involved currently is to draw from those who supported him during the campaign.

I think it should be called "Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty" until 2010 and at that point we can drop many references to Ron Paul. Ron Paul is the attraction for many people who helped during the campaign to join. If we haven't gotten these people involved by the end of next year, then we never will. But after 2009 we should continue with the CFL full-speed ahead and tone down the RP references in order to make it more palatable to the average free market Republican and individual liberties Democrat. In other words, use Ron as a recruiting tool until his name value wears down a bit.