Rock Music close ties to the Military Industrial Complex

[ronpaulforprez2008]

Did you know Jim Morrison's (The Doors) dad, George Morrison, a retired Navy admiral, was in charge of CINCPAC during the Gulf of Tonkin incident? Funny thing is, many of our famous rock n rollers came from families with high level military and intelligence background. Coincidence? Read the following series and listen to the interview below and make up your own mind.

Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation
Part 1 of 15
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html

Audio Part 1
http://beyondthegrassyknoll.com/audio/mcgowanlc.mp3

Audio part 2
http://beyondthegrassyknoll.com/audio/mcgowanlc2.mp3


If you find this intriguing, then I suggest that you research the Tavistock Institute and find out who was behind the Beattles.... they're song lyrics tell you what you need to know.

[lucius]

Good stuff: the rock-stars were mostly children of military and intelligence agencies. The scifi venue was also co-opted for predictive programing purposes in a similar fashion.

[ronpaulforprez2008]

Good stuff: the rock-stars were mostly children of military and intelligence agencies. The scifi venue was also co-opted for predictive programing purposes in a similar fashion.
Have you had an opportunity to research this yet? I knew our culture was handed to us, but geesh, all the major stars in our rock history had close ties to the MIC. It's really incredible.

[lucius]

Have you had an opportunity to research this yet? I knew our culture was handed to us, but geesh, all the major stars in our rock history had close ties to the MIC. It's really incredible.

I kept stumbling across this in my readings. Many of them were products of MKULTRA. Large amounts of resources to co-opting the country western venue as well. You described it succinctly--our culture is handed to us.

[jyakulis]

man funny you posted this. I ran across this at godlikeproductions.com like 2 days ago. It was one hell of the read. I didn't have time to confirm all the claims it made, but with some of the stuff I've learned about the NWO a lot of it didn't surprise me too much.

[BeFranklin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Parsons

I ran across the above I think looking for John Carter of Mars stuff (science fiction).

I was disappointed to see someone into areospace into this. I followed it through to the scientology connection - a lot scarier cult then I thought.

[BuddyRey]

This is interesting stuff, but I don't see how the pieces fit. What would the NWO have to gain from setting up a music scene that predominantly preached peace, love, and tolerance?

[dannno]

This is interesting stuff, but I don't see how the pieces fit. What would the NWO have to gain from setting up a music scene that predominantly preached peace, love, and tolerance?

Controlled opposition that they eventually destroyed.. Also made more people accepting of socialism.

[ronpaulforprez2008]

This is interesting stuff, but I don't see how the pieces fit. What would the NWO have to gain from setting up a music scene that predominantly preached peace, love, and tolerance?

In short, to ponerize the public.

If you go back to that time, you will find that there was serious resistance building,
especially at colleges and universities. The hippies, flower power, drugs, rock n roll
diffused those serious efforts, turned the kids to meaningless egocentonic activities
that were not serious threats to elite power.

It's the same reason new age religions and cults are covertly developed and run
by the MIC.... to spin the public off into small subgroups and bizzare belief systems
that ponerizes them, and keeps them from building any meaningful resistance.

One big part of all of this is to destroy our natural humanity, our naturally beliefs in right
and wrong, and our willingness to help our fellow man. Once this is accomplished,
they, the elite classes, can make us turn on each other and do anything they
want us to do.

Culture creation is a critical technique for control.


Ponerize (ie Ponerology)

Our society is soulless because the people who lead it and who set the example are soulless - they literally have no conscience.

When you come to understand that the reins of political and economic power are in the hands of people who have no conscience, who have no capacity for empathy, it opens up a completely new way of looking at what we call "evil". Evil is no longer only a moral issue; it can now be analyzed and understood scientifically.
.
.
.
When psychopaths are the policy makers in government and the CEOs of big business, the way they think and reason - their 'morality' - becomes the common culture and 'morality' of the population over which they preside. When this happens, the mind of the population is infected in the way a pathogen infects a physical body. The only way to protect ourselves against this pathological thinking is to inoculate ourselves against it, and that is done by learning as much as possible about the nature of psychopathy and its influence on us. Essentially, this particular 'disease' thrives in an environment where its very existence is denied, and this denial is planned and deliberate.

[Matt Collins]

Funny thing is, many of our famous rock n rollers came from families with high level military and intelligence background.



Yeah, it's called REBELLION!
http://images01.trafficz.com/cache/h3w4/500_1190931727_407747_8412.jpg

Now where is the sex and drugs at?!?!











.

[BeFranklin]

Yeah, it's called REBELLION!

Now where is the sex and drugs at?!?!



Not someone really likely to resist anything, including their own lusts.

Ding. We have a winner for a reason (and several related reasons)

Proverbs 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

This is interesting stuff, but I don't see how the pieces fit. What would the NWO have to gain from setting up a music scene that predominantly preached peace, love, and tolerance?

Controlled opposition.

Sucks to read that, I like that music.

[ronpaulforprez2008]

Sucks to read that, I like that music.
The lyrics will F you up.... many are written by old-farts well versed in psychology. Movies are worse.... very damaging.
They know how to manipulate us.

[BeFranklin]

The lyrics will F you up.... many are written by old-farts well versed in psychology. Then know how to manipulate us.

I didn't use to listen to the lyrics, but started to when I realized they might have an effect even when you don't - and the non-lyrical part may help drive the lyrics into you anyway even if you are not consciensly and completely listening to it.

One of the main reasons I started listening to gospel music was this. It seems a good antidote. I prefer southern gospel. If you're getting off rock music, johnny cash, charlie daniels has some bass, maybe followed by quartets - southern gospel, etc. Traditional hymns tried and tested are good listening to - the rest is to fill in.

Seems the culture they wanted to generate was one easily controlled, not given to real resistance but decadence to lusts, likely to be leaderless (don 't listen to your elders), familyless (look at the divorce rate), and anti-Christian (look at much of the lyrics).

Johnny Cash - Daddy sang bass - will the circle be unbroken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGUP8oc9Bgs

[BuddyRey]

Controlled opposition.

Sucks to read that, I like that music.

Yeah, sucks for me too. I love '60s rock, especially the Beatles! :(

Please tell me that jazz is safe to listen to. If I find out Louis Armstrong was a Tavistock agent, I'm going to break down and cry! :D

[BeFranklin]

FYI:

There is a *remarkable* number of original and good Christian songs written by fameous people that is not well known by the American people because
the media has supressed it (for the same reasons its encouraged the above apparently), so its connected to this thread.

Here's an original from Johnny Cash. (wrote a lot of gospel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W08MS3ndUX0

Trumpet of Jesus (70s sound) (not best version - later and live)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsifye2Hfec

I saw the light - Hank Williams Sr (wrote a lot of gospel - twangy country) get house of gold if you can
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32tcvdd4SCI&feature=related

Get away Jordan - statemen quartet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JugHUSSp4c

Can he, could he, would he, Cathedrals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UjD8gut6HM

Amazing Grace - Scottish bagpipes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO5y2O_hv3I

To be redeemed - Kingston Trio (cover :( )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-VvRZ4BIMo

Why don't you look into Jesus - Larry Norman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoDScV7Egew

When the saints come marching in - Louis Armstrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyLjbMBpGDA

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Little music list with bits of every style. It even has Sottish bagpipes in it :D

[BeFranklin]

House of Gold - Hank Williams Sr
http://www.last.fm/music/Hank+Williams/_/A+House+Of+Gold

Spiritual - Johnny Cash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7_kpLa3fyI&feature=related

Go Down Moses - Louis Armstrong
http://www.last.fm/music/Louis+Armstrong/_/Go+Down+Moses

Milky White Way - Elvis Presley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahimcjTrndg

[amonasro]

Just another reason to listen to real rock music!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_nhoZu2cp8&feature=related

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Even if there is some terrible secret behind its creation, I can't see myself letting go of good old rock any time soon (nor do I want to). But then, I've never taken the messages of songs that seriously, I just like the way they sound. To me, rock and its offspring are pleasing background noise to life. If it's supposed to induce controlled opposition, it hasn't done a very good job. I'm not shooting myself up with drugs yet or believing in communistic utopias, though I enjoy songs about both every week.

[LittleLightShining]

I read all those pages from davesweb about a month ago and they blew my mind. It all makes so much sense to me but I feel like I need more proof. Is there any other info besides Tavistock and GLP?

[kathy88]

This is interesting stuff, but I don't see how the pieces fit. What would the NWO have to gain from setting up a music scene that predominantly preached peace, love, and tolerance?

and advocated drug use for control

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Yeah, sucks for me too. I love '60s rock, especially the Beatles! :(

Please tell me that jazz is safe to listen to. If I find out Louis Armstrong was a Tavistock agent, I'm going to break down and cry! :D

Well, I honestly really don't care. I'm a total headbanger and that's not going to change. Didn't stop me from figuring out how the world really works.

And as for the suggestions from others, christian music really sucks and I have no interest in it at all. I used to listen to it back in the mid 90's when I became a born again evangelical for a few years and never liked it at that time either.

[PatriotOne]

Did you know Jim Morrison's (The Doors) dad, George Morrison, a retired Navy admiral, was in charge of CINCPAC during the Gulf of Tonkin incident? Funny thing is, many of our famous rock n rollers came from families with high level military and intelligence background. Coincidence? Read the following series and listen to the interview below and make up your own mind.

Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation
Part 1 of 15
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html

Audio Part 1
http://beyondthegrassyknoll.com/audio/mcgowanlc.mp3

Audio part 2
http://beyondthegrassyknoll.com/audio/mcgowanlc2.mp3


If you find this intriguing, then I suggest that you research the Tavistock Institute and find out who was behind the Beattles.... they're song lyrics tell you what you need to know.

Fantastically interesting interview and articles. Though I had already figured out in a different way that the "hippies" did not become a fad organically, it's always interesting to hear details like this.

It also got me thinking about other current fads. The one that popped into my mind first was the "Reality TV" fad that seemed to come out of nowhere. Of course I googled Mark Burnett first and even a cursory glance at his bio raises suspicions. Born in Tavistock central "London" and was in the special forces of the Parachute Regiment:

Airborne Infantry element of the British Army. It is an elite unit by virtue of its stringent selection process, rigorous training programme and by the requirement of its role to operate with minimal or no support behind enemy lines and against numerically superior forces. It forms the airborne infantry element of 16 Air Assault Brigade.

But I suppose that is a subject for another thread :).

[1000-points-of-fright]

Everything in the entire universe was created by the Powers That Be in order to control you, therefore you should kill yourself. Oh wait, that's what they want you to do. Fuck. Existence is futile.

[jyakulis]

so, why was jim morrison always calling himself the "lizard king"?

god, for my own sanity, i hope the reptilian conspiracy shit ain't true lol.

[ronpaulforprez2008]

Well, I honestly really don't care. I'm a total headbanger and that's not going to change. Didn't stop me from figuring out how the world really works.

I also really liked that music, but the more I learned about the lyrics and their desired impact, the more the appeal wore off. Now, it just kinda turns my stomach, no matter how infectious the beat is.


It also got me thinking about other current fads. The one that popped into my mind first was the "Reality TV" fad that seemed to come out of nowhere.

Do you recall the movie Ed.TV? That was predictive programming for what was to come.... this integration of the "real" world with the TV (virtual world), with everyone investing their time aspiring to be a "star" in this fiction. What a waste of human energy.


Everything in the entire universe was created by the Powers That Be in order to control you, therefore you should kill yourself. Oh wait, that's what they want you to do. Fuck. Existence is futile.

The point is to see and understand it, to be aware, so you can protect yourself from it. Then it doesn't work, and they don't get their way.... and then there is nothing to be afraid of. It's the manipulation that is scary. Once we stop that ability, their game is immediately over. That is why it is so important to point out these techniques and their intended consequences.

[BeFranklin]

Well, I honestly really don't care. I'm a total headbanger and that's not going to change. Didn't stop me from figuring out how the world really works.

And as for the suggestions from others, christian music really sucks and I have no interest in it at all. I used to listen to it back in the mid 90's when I became a born again evangelical for a few years and never liked it at that time either.

Christian music isn't one style, it extends from jazz music (louis armstrong), country (johnny cash), classical opera etc (handel's messiah), blues, etc. Early rock and roll seems to have offshoot from it as well through black gospel and southern gospel being mixed together (for instance Elvis Presley's gospel singing). A lot of bluegrass, country, and folk seems to have developed and been influenced by Christian singing as well.

Arguable, much of the development of western music probably links itself to Christian singing. Certainly, countless muscians have gotten their start singing at church.

I'm sure this topic is endless, and I'm not qualified to talk about it, but it is obviously a large topic.

Christian music is a lot more then CCM, since using that name encompases any genre a Christian might write a song in.

[BeFranklin]

so, why was jim morrison always calling himself the "lizard king"?

god, for my own sanity, i hope the reptilian conspiracy shit ain't true lol.

Don't know, but I've always approached this from the other side, that they're into doing wrong, not that they may be coordinating it higher up.

Morrison was obviously into witchcraft and drugs. The name of his band is from the "doorways of perception", which was a book by Huxley on drug use. He was into the occult, married a witch, did drugs, liked bloodletting and blood 'magic' (one of the reasons his picture is in the movie the lost boys about vampires), and did a great deal of harm in his short life. Actually, its pretty nasty if you just scratch the surface, and the media never really investigates any of this - because they are promoting it and therefore would be interested in covering it up.

[BenIsForRon]

GUYS!@!! Do some fucking research before you believe these paranoid conspiracy theorists! Read the articles they posted. Its all guilt by association stuff. Baby boomers... from military families... NOW WAY!!! When you live in an Imperial country you're going to have a lot of people with connections to the military. Most of us do to varying degrees.

The Doors, The Beatles, and Frank Zappa all made beautiful music. Don't trash that stuff because of a few forum posts.

[dannno]

classical oprah etc (handel's messiah)

HAHAHAH!! CAUGHT YOU BEFORE YOUR EDIT!!

:D


That just reminded me of a thread I made a while back where I wrote Opera in the title instead of Oprah :p

[BeFranklin]

HAHAHAH!! CAUGHT YOU BEFORE YOUR EDIT!!

:D


That just reminded me of a thread I made a while back where I wrote Opera in the title instead of Oprah :p

Arg :)

[dannno]

GUYS!@!! Do some fucking research before you believe these paranoid conspiracy theorists! Read the articles they posted. Its all guilt by association stuff. Baby boomers... from military families... NOW WAY!!! When you live in an Imperial country you're going to have a lot of people with connections to the military. Most of us do to varying degrees.

The Doors, The Beatles, and Frank Zappa all made beautiful music. Don't trash that stuff because of a few forum posts.

Did you read the article??? Obviously not.

From your post it sounds like Jim Morrison's father was just some dude in the military...




It is the first week of August, 1964, and U.S. warships under the command of U.S. Navy Admiral George Stephen Morrison have allegedly come under attack while patrolling Vietnam’s Tonkin Gulf.

...

One of the earliest on the Laurel Canyon/Sunset Strip scene is Jim Morrison, the enigmatic lead singer of The Doors. Jim will quickly become one of the most iconic, controversial, critically acclaimed, and influential figures to take up residence in Laurel Canyon. Curiously enough though, the self-proclaimed “Lizard King” has another claim to fame as well, albeit one that none of his numerous chroniclers will feel is of much relevance to his career and possible untimely death: he is the son, as it turns out, of the aforementioned Admiral George Stephen Morrison.



And so it is that, even while the father is actively conspiring to fabricate an incident that will be used to massively accelerate an illegal war, the son is positioning himself to become an icon of the ‘hippie’/anti-war crowd. Nothing unusual about that, I suppose. It is, you know, a small world and all that. And it is not as if Jim Morrison’s story is in any way unique.


That is some coincidence theory BIG time my friend. Big TIME.

In fact, I think the likelyhood of that happening is like 2 trillion to 1.

[Andrew-Austin]

No one is going to change what music they listen even if this lil conspiracy theory is true. I certainly won't, though I listen to everything under the sun anyways including 60s rock.

The song "Imagine" does not make me think of the one world government the elite are trying to build, I can interpret songs how I wish or just not interpret them at all. Music hasn't been a barrier to discovering the truth for me, though I have grown up in the age of the interweb.

[BeFranklin]

GUYS!@!! Do some fucking research before you believe these paranoid conspiracy theorists! Read the articles they posted. Its all guilt by association stuff. Baby boomers... from military families... NOW WAY!!! When you live in an Imperial country you're going to have a lot of people with connections to the military. Most of us do to varying degrees.

The Doors, The Beatles, and Frank Zappa all made beautiful music. Don't trash that stuff because of a few forum posts.

I've approached it from the other side. The doors, beatles, and many other bands are obviously now known for being into drugs, but back then they weren't known for being into drugs or witchcraft (thats a picture of Aleister Crowley and Karl Marx on the beatles cover btw). In fact, back then preachers were mocked for pointing it out, "oh that can't be true".

Since that is a big lie technique, it makes sense that it was coordinated. The mentioning alestier crowley all over the place (it certainly wasn't just the beetles doing this) seems to be an intentional promoting of drugs and witchcraft*1 on an unsuspecting population. Where did it come from?

*1 by witchcraft, I mean promoting one of those occult systems that makes being deluded, brainswashed, or controlled easier if you believe them and or while doing drugs. I am not advocatig a "supernatural" witchcraft, but the traditional defination of witchcraft - a system of lying and decieving of others.

[dannno]

No one is going to change what music they listen even if this lil conspiracy theory is true. I certainly won't, though I listen to everything under the sun anyways including 60s rock.

I don't think that's the goal. I think the goal is to be able to recognize current and future musicians who are affiliated with the Illuminati. Like Kanye.

[Rangeley]

My earphones have tin mesh, so I'm not worried.

[itsthepathocrats]

Morrison was obviously into witchcraft and drugs. The name of his band is from the "doorways of perception", which was a book by Huxley on drug use. He was into the occult, married a witch, did drugs, liked bloodletting and blood 'magic' (one of the reasons his picture is in the movie the lost boys about vampires), and did a great deal of harm in his short life. Actually, its pretty nasty if you just scratch the surface, and the media never really investigates any of this - because they are promoting it and therefore would be interested in covering it up.
You learn something new everyday. Thanks, Ben.

Hollywood Babylon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Babylon) , by Kenneth Anger, is a resource for those who want more info on how all of this ties together.



GUYS!@!! Do some fucking research before you believe these paranoid conspiracy theorists! Read the articles they posted. Its all guilt by association stuff. Baby boomers... from military families... NOW WAY!!! When you live in an Imperial country you're going to have a lot of people with connections to the military. Most of us do to varying degrees.

The Doors, The Beatles, and Frank Zappa all made beautiful music. Don't trash that stuff because of a few forum posts.

Cognitive dissidence on full display for everyone to see.

"You Can't Handle the Truth!"
Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men

[PatriotOne]

Do you recall the movie Ed.TV? That was predictive programming for what was to come.... this integration of the "real" world with the TV (virtual world), with everyone investing their time aspiring to be a "star" in this fiction. What a waste of human energy.

I was just thinking about that show today while pondering the Reality TV angle. Why have a life of your own when you can live through someone else 24/7 ? Or.....preparations for survellience society. Or perhaps both.

[BeFranklin]

I was just thinking about that show today while pondering the Reality TV angle. Why have a life of your own when you can live through someone else 24/7 ? Or.....preparations for survellience society. Or perhaps both.

I've thought of reality tv, especially cop and court shows, as bringing back the roman games. The movie "running man" has a similar idea too.

[heavenlyboy34]

I've thought of reality tv, especially cop and court shows, as bringing back the roman games. The movie "running man" has a similar idea too.

I always thought of it as voyeurism, but I like your way of thinking about it too. :D

[jyakulis]

GUYS!@!! Do some fucking research before you believe these paranoid conspiracy theorists! Read the articles they posted. Its all guilt by association stuff. Baby boomers... from military families... NOW WAY!!! When you live in an Imperial country you're going to have a lot of people with connections to the military. Most of us do to varying degrees.

The Doors, The Beatles, and Frank Zappa all made beautiful music. Don't trash that stuff because of a few forum posts.

Yeah, I can see what your saying. If you listen to the interviews the guy addresses your point. Essentially, the majority of them all grew up in the dc suburbs and then happened to get big and move to the same little area in California.

I dunno, a lot of conspiracies are mostly circumstantial evidence. However, at this point, I've seen too many "coincidences" to not give them any credence.

[jyakulis]

I've approached it from the other side. The doors, beatles, and many other bands are obviously now known for being into drugs, but back then they weren't known for being into drugs or witchcraft (thats a picture of Aleister Crowley and Karl Marx on the beatles cover btw). In fact, back then preachers were mocked for pointing it out, "oh that can't be true".

Since that is a big lie technique, it makes sense that it was coordinated. The mentioning alestier crowley all over the place (it certainly wasn't just the beetles doing this) seems to be an intentional promoting of drugs and witchcraft*1 on an unsuspecting population. Where did it come from?

*1 by witchcraft, I mean promoting one of those occult systems that makes being deluded, brainswashed, or controlled easier if you believe them and or while doing drugs. I am not advocatig a "supernatural" witchcraft, but the traditional defination of witchcraft - a system of lying and decieving of others.


Yep, this guy knows his stuff. Zeppelin was heavily into Crowley. It just so happens "stairway to heaven" is backmasked with a short little poem dedicated to satan lol. I mean I still like the band, but a lot of these bands were into some pretty dark stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec3RaItdmsk

[ronpaulforprez2008]

Yeah, I can see what your saying. If you listen to the interviews the guy addresses your point. Essentially, the majority of them all grew up in the dc suburbs and then happened to get big and move to the same little area in California.

I dunno, a lot of conspiracies are mostly circumstantial evidence. However, at this point, I've seen too many "coincidences" to not give them any credence.
The main reason I published the original post was not to show that a bunch of children of military familes all moved to a little enclave in LA and become global rock stars, as this is merely a means to an end... breadcrumbs to the bigger issue, which is that our culture is meticulously planned and carried-out by insiders. That's the take-away here.... to understand that we are molded from a very early age. We must begin to see this, and protect ourselves from it... that is what is critical here. For those who want to watch a movie that articulates the issue, check out "They Live (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/)"

[PatriotOne]

For those who want to watch a movie that articulates the issue, check out "They Live (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/)"

They Live - 84 minutes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9005367754264973286

[BenIsForRon]

I think ronpaulforprez2008 is an insider posting on forums to make potential grassroots activists paranoid and keep them on the internet all day.

[Mini-Me]

I've approached it from the other side. The doors, beatles, and many other bands are obviously now known for being into drugs, but back then they weren't known for being into drugs or witchcraft (thats a picture of Aleister Crowley and Karl Marx on the beatles cover btw). In fact, back then preachers were mocked for pointing it out, "oh that can't be true".

Since that is a big lie technique, it makes sense that it was coordinated. The mentioning alestier crowley all over the place (it certainly wasn't just the beetles doing this) seems to be an intentional promoting of drugs and witchcraft*1 on an unsuspecting population. Where did it come from?

*1 by witchcraft, I mean promoting one of those occult systems that makes being deluded, brainswashed, or controlled easier if you believe them and or while doing drugs. I am not advocatig a "supernatural" witchcraft, but the traditional defination of witchcraft - a system of lying and decieving of others.

As far as your last paragraph goes, and in light of some of your other posts in the thread...honestly, you could say the same thing about anyone with any particular dogmatic religious faith, as well. I know you're a strong Christian (though I don't know what type or if you subscribe to organized religion), and I'm not actually attacking your beliefs in this post, but it does seem like you have a double standard for Christianity vs. what you call various kinds of "witchcraft." For all we know, Christianity and organized religion in general may also be "witchcraft" that was purposely created thousands of years ago as nothing more than a means of control! Or maybe Christianity started out as an honest religion and remains so to this day, despite all of the unfortunate times throughout history that it has been used by ruling elites to control people. Or maybe, when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, the canonical books of the Bible could have been chosen at the Council of Nicea or even edited at that time for the specific purpose of making the religion a tool of the Roman state. Sure, we have written history of that time, but I think it should be apparent to anyone that even our modern history is heavily manipulated and written "by the victors." I'm not saying that any particular scenario above is the case in reality, just that any of them could be true. No Christian would be any the wiser for it either, because they assume based on faith that the original revealed truth in their holy book has remained intact from the first day it was written down.

In truth, every single belief system based primarily on faith makes the mind more susceptible to brainwashing in the exact same way, because they all condition the mind to be more accepting of authority and of being handed a belief set that requires faith above all other things (including critical examination). By definition, any belief in divinely revealed truth is proof of this, because it is a concrete example of a person being handed a belief set by some "moral authority" and taking it on faith (and taking it on faith that their source is indeed the moral authority it claims to be). Although I'm not a Christian, I'm not trying to make any kind of anti-Christian flame...I'm just saying that by its very nature - even if a religion happens to be 100% correct about everything - all religious faith ultimately requires the same basic mindset that makes people easy to control and manipulate. On one hand, a great example of this is the way the establishment has manipulated the religious right over the years. On the other hand, interpreted the right way, Christianity can also make Christians some of the greatest enemies of the establishment and some of the greatest assets of freedom lovers in general. For example, the words of the Bible should certainly give its believers a built-in and unshakeable faith-based suspicion of one world government.

I'm not trying to attack Christians here or you personally. I just feel obligated to point out that the way you came to your own beliefs is not necessarily all so different from the way all of the believers in "witchcraft" came to theirs. Because of that, it's important not to ever forget that you're just as susceptible to manipulation as "they" are, you're not immune, and you should not let your guard down merely because you eschew "unwholesome" things like drugs, the occult, etc. You might already know all this...it's just that your posts give me the impression that you hold Christianity to an entirely different standard from everything else, for no other reason than because it is your own religion.

Make no mistake: Christianity's status as a two-thousand year old religion does not make it somehow exempt from being able to be used as a means of control. Contrary to the idea that Christianity is somehow the ultimate enemy of the NWO, using that particular religion above all others to divide and control people is not just a tool but frankly a favorite pasttime of the elite. Too often, Christians seem to think of the elites as if they are demonically inspired, and as if their primary goal is to drive Christians away from God and their religion with New Age hocus pocus, etc. Have you not considered that the elites might be purposely promoting this idea about their motives? Because of the attitude that someone is out to get their religion and that this is the worst and most dangerous possible thing in the entire world, devout Christians cling ever harder to their religion and fear influence from secular thought or association with people who have different philosophical ideas about the nature of the universe, our purpose, etc...but in reality, THIS is exactly what the elites want. The elites don't care one bit about whether people believe in Christianity, and they're not secret agents of Satan trying to drive people away from God! What they are is a bunch of inbred, sheltered, and arrogantly aloof narcissists and psychopaths with zero empathy, who care only about power, control, feeling superior, and maintaining perpetual wealth...and enough is never enough. Sure, some of them are probably into the occult and trying to seek power from nonexistent evil spirits, etc., but as Hannibal Lecter says in one of his creepy little Hannibal Lectures, "Nooo, that is incidental. What is the first and principal thing [they do]? What needs [do they] serve by [their interest in the occult]?" They covet...not just what they don't have, but what they have and crave more of. Their favorite tactic is divide and conquer, and it's what they're good at. They're not "behind" the push towards secular humanism in America, etc. What they are behind is the conflict between secular and religious people! They don't care about deluding Christians into leaving God and becoming "lost;" what they care about is making Christians paranoid and giving them the impression that demonic forces are out to do exactly this. That way, they can fool Christians into mistaking a political and ethical battle for some cosmic battle for their souls and the fate of their religion. By setting the Christians and everyone else against each other, they can keep us too busy fighting amongst ourselves to take a united stand against them! One of the most important lessons from Sun Tzu's Art of War is that to win, you must know your enemy. Unfortunately, the elites seem to be much better at this than most, because they have the psychology of different "groups" down to a T. They're experts at playing on the fears of both the religious and the secular to turn them against each other (and the religious against the other religious, for that matter). At the same time, far too many defensive Christians - and atheists, for that matter - know so little of their enemy that they have fallen for these manipulations hook, line, and sinker. They've mistaken their enemy's motivations so completely that they're looking for enemies in all the wrong places. :(

[BeFranklin]

As far as your last paragraph goes, and in light of some of your other posts in the thread...honestly, you could say the same thing about anyone with any particular dogmatic religious faith, as well. (

Nope. I carefully defined it as an occult system that makes being deluded, brainwashed or controlled easier if you believe them. As the traditional understanding of witchcraft, a system of lying or deceiving others. I also had a specific purpose for saying it - that I was not promoting the belief in a "supernatural" witchcraft - and in fact the promotion of the 'supernatural powers of demons' in some occult works, which is superstitution, is in itself a system of lying and controlling others.

A good look at this is witchdoctors. They'll use poisons and drugs, trance states, get people to look for hidden symbols in everything, do things backwards to keep them in a confused state, deprive them of sleep, etc etc. All those things are physical, not supernatural, ways of breaking down a persons will and mind. Some systems aren't really belief systems about convincing anyone of anything. They're a set of techniques like that to actually control people. Very similar to what some people in the intelligence community have been doing as well.

I'm not talking about beliefs in the sense you are. I'm talking about a set of techniques useful to subject humans - and the occult knowledge in that sense isn't so a person can "talk to the demons", the hidden knowledge in these systems is the brainwashing knowledge. If the system is not based around a hidden knowledge of brainwashing people, it is not the occult type system I am talking about.

[Mini-Me]

Nope. I carefully defined it as an occult system that makes being deluded, brainwashed or controlled easier if you believe them. As the traditional understanding of witchcraft, a system of lying or deceiving others. I also had a specific purpose for saying it - that I was not promoting the belief in a "supernatural" witchcraft - and in fact the promotion of the 'supernatural powers of demons' in some occult works, which is superstitution, is in itself a system of lying and controlling others.

A good look at this is witchdoctors. They'll use poisons and drugs, trance states, get people to look for hidden symbols in everything, do things backwards to keep them in a confused state, deprive them of sleep, etc etc. All those things are physical, not supernatural, ways of breaking down a persons will and mind. Some systems aren't really belief systems about convincing anyone of anything. They're a set of techniques like that to actually control people. Very similar to what some people in the intelligence community have been doing as well.

I'm not talking about beliefs in the sense you are. I'm talking about a set of techniques useful to subject humans - and the occult knowledge in that sense isn't so a person can "talk to the demons", the hidden knowledge in these systems is the brainwashing knowledge. If the system is not based around a hidden knowledge of brainwashing people, it is not the occult type system I am talking about.

Sorry then, my mistake! I was under the impression you were referring to mental conditioning through indoctrination in strange beliefs (New Age stuff, Scientology, etc.) rather than literal physical brainwashing techniques, and it seemed as though the mention of drugs was essentially separate from that. I get your meaning now. :)

[RSLudlum]

They Live - 84 minutes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9005367754264973286


The author of "The THEorY of LIVEvolution: "Great" Society of the UN-dead", Robert Roselli, was interviewed today on our mid-day local radio show, Radio Free with Rocky D and he mentioned the movie as an example of what we see with the media (even down to billboards esp. the many 'socially oriented gov't ad billboards). It was quite an interesting interview about international gov't, money, and global warming. Also talked of many seemingly wanting to replace belief in a creator/god with gov't.

His website is here: http://theoryoflivevolution.com

[BuddyRey]

Christian music isn't one style, it extends from jazz music (louis armstrong), country (johnny cash), classical opera etc (handel's messiah), blues, etc. Early rock and roll seems to have offshoot from it as well through black gospel and southern gospel being mixed together (for instance Elvis Presley's gospel singing). A lot of bluegrass, country, and folk seems to have developed and been influenced by Christian singing as well.

Arguable, much of the development of western music probably links itself to Christian singing. Certainly, countless muscians have gotten their start singing at church.

I'm sure this topic is endless, and I'm not qualified to talk about it, but it is obviously a large topic.

Christian music is a lot more then CCM, since using that name encompases any genre a Christian might write a song in.

This is true! CCM has never done anything for me whatsoever, but I'll be dipped if bluegrass, southern gospel, black gospel, and pretty much all of the great "old time religion" music isn't some of the most moving, powerful, and cathartic American music I've ever heard.

Listening to Dorothy Love Coates, The Soul Stirrers, Mahalia Jackson, The Golden Gate Quartet, etc., I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in a very real and visceral way. And this is coming from somebody who hasn't seen the inside of a church in a good five years. :D

[ronpaulforprez2008]

I think ronpaulforprez2008 is an insider posting on forums to make potential grassroots activists paranoid and keep them on the internet all day.

What I love about this country is how great people can be, even in the worst of
times. The American spirit, and sense of humor is alive and well, no matter how hard
they try to convince us otherwise.

Good goin', Ben.