What did Goldwater do wrong?

[Matt Collins]

Let's list everything Goldwater did wrong so that we can examine these items so that we don't end up repeating them.

[Elwar]

He mentioned liberty without throwing in the meat of hating communists.

[BarryDonegan]

said he would throw a nuclear warhead inside the kremlin.

[Truth Warrior]

He threatened to shrink the government. :eek: Sound like someone else we know?

[BuddyRey]

He was seen by most people as a neocon, and he did make a few bellicose statements that might have given that impression.

[Primbs]

Compared to Reagan who presented a similar message in a friendly manner, Goldwater came across as a meaner hotter personality.

Friendly wins.

[Rangeley]

Goldwater was really sunk by his comments about nuclear war, which LBJ hit him hard on (ie, Daisy Ad.) I see this one as a pretty easy problem to avoid.

[Kludge]

Died.

[fr33domfightr]

Yes, I think inspiration is a big part of it. Reagan and Obama are/were both considered inpirational. It probably doesn't matter what they say, since people like their ability to convey a positive message.

If this is true, inspirational president trumps substance, RP would never win.



FF

[Truth Warrior]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater)

[LibertyEagle]

He was seen by most people as a neocon, and he did make a few bellicose statements that might have given that impression.

What are you talking about? Neocons didn't even exist then.

[LibertyEagle]

Goldwater was really sunk by his comments about nuclear war, which LBJ hit him hard on (ie, Daisy Ad.) I see this one as a pretty easy problem to avoid.

Yeah, it was that ad. I remember the day it ran. Let's just say, my parents being big Goldwater supporters, were not happy campers.

The ad was brilliant actually. It fed on people's fears of us getting nuked.

[Natalie]

My history teacher said that Goldwater said he wished he could saw off the Northeast US and watch it float out to sea or something. (Because it's a liberal area) Ha!

[AbolishTheGovt]

Supported getting into nuclear "hot war" with the Soviet Union.

[BuddyRey]

What are you talking about? Neocons didn't even exist then.

Not by name, but the ideology itself has been around for at least fifty years, when it was just called Straussianism.

I'm not saying Goldwater was one, but that perception existed.

[LibertyEagle]

Not by name, but the ideology itself has been around for at least fifty years, when it was just called Straussianism.

I'm not saying Goldwater was one, but that perception existed.

Well, the thing is Buddy, that Goldwater was not an advocate of empire building, as opposed to Straussians. That I knew of anyway.

[Bro.Butch]

You are asking a question of people, who in the majority of cases weren't even alive. He wasn't an INSIDER, hence "saw off the N.E." where they were HQed. He defeated Nelson Rockefeller for the nomination among others. I know it gets old to some, but truth is truth. The main media was controlled "way back" in 1964. IMO he was the last "non-insider" to gain the nomination of the two largest partries...:(

Too many overlook the importance of free coverage by the major television networks. They mold the "majority" opinion of the nation. Their bosses decide who gets that free coverage.

Media Caught Lying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iW5kOB1pmg

How The Elite Control Politics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTahZE4q90U

It will be a massive undertaking. However, it could be done. Grassroots activism, positive local media, and paid advertising can defeat them...

[LibertyEagle]

Supported getting into nuclear "hot war" with the Soviet Union.

Huh? No he didn't. Back in those days the Soviets were the empire builders and they were overtaking country after country. Soviet spies were in our own country and at all levels of government, our colleges and our media. So yeah, Goldwater thought they were a threat and thought we shouldn't act like pussies and let them walk all over us. So, when you wonder what happened to our schools and our media, there's your answer.

It was LBJ who pushed the nuclear angle. Fear-mongering at its best.

[Truth Warrior]

Sen. Barry Goldwater wrote in his book With No Apologies: "In my view, the Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power: political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical. All this is to be done in the interest of creating a more peaceful, more productive world community. What the Trilateralists truly intend is the creation of a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nation-states involved. They believe the abundant materialism they propose to create will overwhelm existing differences. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future."

Excerpted from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission)

I really liked Barry, but the above just seems, shocks and strikes me as just a little too NWO-ish. :eek:

[LibertyEagle]

This might be more productive if we looked at what he did RIGHT. He did get the Republican nomination, after all. And it sure didn't happen by magic. There was a huge amount of hard, SMART, work, done by a ton of volunteers and campaign staff. They learned how to play the game and they played it better than their opposition. What I was told by someone who was there, is that they plain overwhelmed them with numbers. Yes, way back then there was funny business at the straw polls too. BUT, the media was better, but still horrible; the voting public was not as nearly as dumbed-down.

[Bro.Butch]

Huh? No he didn't. Back in those days the Soviets were the empire builders and they were overtaking country after country. Soviet spies were in our own country and at all levels of government, our colleges and our media. So yeah, Goldwater thought they were a threat and thought we shouldn't act like pussies and let them walk all over us. So, when you wonder what happened to our schools and our media, there's your answer.

It was LBJ who pushed the nuclear angle. Fear-mongering at its best.

:eek:I don't want to get thrown off here Mr. Moderator, however I must reprimand you. "shouldn't act like pussies" Is completely Politically INCORRECT ! You must be as old as I am ;) :D

[LibertyEagle]

:eek:I don't want to get thrown off here Mr. Moderator, however I must reprimand you. "shouldn't act like pussies" Is completely Politically INCORRECT ! You must be as old as I am ;) :D

lol. Probably, sir. I was a kid when Goldwater ran for President. My Mother was a delegate for him.

And... it's MS. Moderator. :) Yes, and I was absent the day they taught political correctness.

[Bro.Butch]

I apologize "MADAM" Moderator, I too was a mere child in those GOOD OLE DAYS...:)

[malkusm]

From the Wiki page on Goldwater:

"His defeat allowed Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats in Congress to pass the Great Society programs, but the defeat of so many older Republicans in 1964 also cleared the way for a younger generation of American conservatives to mobilize.

Get ready to mobilize.

[LibertyEagle]

Mal... you're BACK. :D

[malkusm]

I never left, I've just been lurking more ;)

[mrwiizrd]

I think most democrats would point to this:


Civil Rights Act of 1964

Although majorities in both parties voted for the bill, there were notable exceptions. Republican senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona voted against the bill, remarking, "You can't legislate morality." Goldwater had supported previous attempts to pass Civil Rights legislation in 1957 and 1960. The reason for his opposition to the 1964 bill was Title II, which he viewed as a violation of individual liberty. Most Democrats from the Southern states opposed the bill, including Senators Albert Gore Sr. (D-TN), J. William Fulbright (D-AR), and Robert Byrd (D-WV). Goldwater went on to secure his party's nomination for the presidency, and in the ensuing election, Goldwater won only Arizona and five of the Deep South states, two of which (Alabama and Mississippi) had not voted Republican since the disputed presidential election of 1876.

Title II

Outlawed discrimination in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce; exempted private clubs without defining the term "private."


There's an excellent Goldwater documentary done by HBO, I would suggest giving it a watch.

[mrwiizrd]

Let's list everything Goldwater did wrong so that we can examine these items so that we don't end up repeating them.

To the OP, I think this is a great question to ask, but I think the better question is:

"Let's list everything Reagan did wrong so that we can examine these items so that we don't end up repeating them"

Mainly because:

1. Reagan was elected
2. He didn't practice what he preached
3. More current GOPer's identify with and idolize Reagan

[Matt Collins]

There's an excellent Goldwater documentary done by HBO, I would suggest giving it a watch.Do you know the name of it?

[Truth Warrior]

From the Wiki page on Goldwater:

"His defeat allowed Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats in Congress to pass the Great Society programs, but the defeat of so many older Republicans in 1964 also cleared the way for a younger generation of American conservatives to mobilize.

Get ready to mobilize.

http://www.yaf.com/ (http://www.yaf.com/)

[mrwiizrd]

Do you know the name of it?


Sorry, been a little tied up for the last few days, here you go:

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/mrconservative/

[Matt Collins]

Sorry, been a little tied up for the last few days, here you go:

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/mrconservative/
Awesome. Surprisingly enough I've already had it in my Netflix queue. :)

[Eric21ND]

Yeah sawing off the east coast liberals comment was made into a pretty striking campaign attack against him.

The Vietnam war/communism boogeyman he went after.

Allowing his political opponents to define him as a racist, since he did not support Civil Rights legislation.

His acceptance speech was something for the ages, it played well in the microcosm of the GOP, but throughout the entire nation it was of questionable stratedgy. Here's his speech in four parts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQlfS5maeHA

By the way you guys should watch, HBO Mr. Conservative: Goldwater on Goldwater
Here's the trailer for it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRq-gelZFgg

[WRellim]

Let's list everything Goldwater did wrong so that we can examine these items so that we don't end up repeating them.

Goldwater ran against a ghost/myth.



Seriously.

Johnson didn't win the election -- and Goldwater didn't really lose the election.

The population was voting for the "hallowed/glorified" memory of the assassinated JFK the "youthful/hopeful" president of the "Camelot" years.

IMHO, it was all based on emotion.


Heck... people still aren't over that ...hence Caroline Kennedy can just waltz into a Senate appointment to universal acclaim. Same with any other Kennedy kid.

[powerofreason]

I had a teacher once who said he didn't win because he made everyone think he was gonna nuke the soviets. Don't know if theres any truth to that.

[LibertyEagle]

The GOP primary race between Taft and Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1952 was a particularly close and bitterly contested affair that lasted right up to the convention. Once the convention opened, the Eisenhower camp, unsure of its chances of winning fair and square, persuaded the convention to replace pro-Taft delegates from a number of states with pro-Eisenhower delegates, alleging that the Taft camp had unfairly stolen them (echoes of more recent treatment of Ron Paul supporters in several state conventions). In spite of the Taft camp’s angry denials, the convention voted in favor of this so-called “Fair Play” proposal, and Eisenhower, by convention-floor sleight of hand, wrested the nomination from Robert Taft.

Only once in modern times has a candidate in violation of establishment orthodoxy secured the presidential nomination. In 1964, Senator Barry Goldwater, a conservative who did not fit the establishment mold, managed to get the GOP presidential nomination. Comments Quigley, “The capture of the Republican National Party by the extremist elements of the Republican Congressional Party in 1964, and their effort to elect Barry Goldwater to the Presidency with the petty-bourgeois extremists [note the Marxist terminology] alone, was only a temporary aberration on the American political scene.” Indeed, Goldwater soon found not only the Democratic Party but the leadership of his own party working against him. Nelson Rockefeller, a New York governor and leader of the liberal establishment wing of the GOP, helped to sabotage Goldwater’s campaign. The Arizona Senator was smeared as a war-monger, and an infamous anti-Goldwater campaign commercial showed a small child picking a daisy right before an atomic bomb detonated. The implication was that the fiery Goldwater would start a nuclear war, and it helped sink the GOP standard-bearer’s campaign. Barry Goldwater lost the 1964 election to Lyndon Johnson, another big-government liberal who plunged America into the Vietnam War and whose Great Society welfare program of the sixties was surpassed only by the New Deal in scope and cost.

Since the Goldwater campaign, America’s ruling establishment has successfully denied non-housetrained candidates a realistic shot at the presidency. Ronald Reagan talked a good talk, but his pick of arch-insider George Bush as his veep signaled his intention not to rock the boat. As president, Reagan continued to give lip service to limited government, but supported business as usual — bigger government, more favors to special interests, refusal to abolish programs he campaigned against — with his signing pen.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/166-apples-to-oranges

[nodope0695]

A better question would be: What happened to Americans, and when did they start taking freedom for granted?

[Suzu]

Sen. Barry Goldwater wrote in his book With No Apologies: "In my view, the Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power: political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical. All this is to be done in the interest of creating a more peaceful, more productive world community. What the Trilateralists truly intend is the creation of a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nation-states involved. They believe the abundant materialism they propose to create will overwhelm existing differences. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future."
He was singing a different tune when he ran as the GOP nominee.

[LibertyEagle]

He was singing a different tune when he ran as the GOP nominee.

Huh? He was against these guys back then too. In a MAJOR way.

[scandinaviany3]

My history teacher said that Goldwater said he wished he could saw off the Northeast US and watch it float out to sea or something. (Because it's a liberal area) Ha!

still agree with that starting at Washington DC:rolleyes: