The SS just mailed me and is making threats

[Jeremy]

The "Selective Service System" has just sent me a threat in the mail. I know many of you have had similar threats from this particular organization.

"Refusal to register with Selective Service is a Federal crime punishable by a fine and imprisonment."

This group is requesting my personal information and is forcing me to join their organization. If I do not comply to the demands of this violent gang, I will be putting my life, liberty, and property in danger.

What should I do? :|

[nate895]

Join the Selective Service, it is the law and the SC has ruled against draft dodgers before. It is silly to get yourself arrested over this.

[Jeremy]

Join the Selective Service, it is the law and the SC has ruled against draft dodgers before. It is silly to get yourself arrested over this.

One piece of paper threatens me with jail, another one just says it's suggest and if I don't do it can't get a job with the federal government or financial aid for college... why are they so misleading? Which one is it? ._.

[BKom]

Give them your info:

Storm Commander, Jr.
105 Storm Commander Place
Storm, Iowa 60601
1-800-EatStorm toll free

[Jeremy]

Give them your info:

Storm Commander, Jr.
105 Storm Commander Place
Storm, Iowa 60601
1-800-EatStorm toll free

lol ._.

They printed my name and SS# for me already

[BKom]

One piece of paper threatens me with jail, another one just says it's suggest and if I don't do it can't get a job with the federal government or financial aid for college... why are they so misleading? Which one is it? ._.

They use the financial aid thing as their hammer. But being the small government constitutionalist you are, you would likely tell them to shove their aid where the sun don't shine. Why should the government be taking money from people working at Micky D's and working construction, and use it to guarantee a student loan for you? So, you're good.

[Jeremy]

They use the financial aid thing as their hammer. But being the small government constitutionalist you are, you would likely tell them to shove their aid where the sun don't shine. Why should the government be taking money from people working at Micky D's and working construction, and use it to guarantee a student loan for you? So, you're good.

Hell no. They're giving it out to everyone... it's all of our money too. I'd be dumb not to take advantage of their failing system.

But my point was that they aren't being clear. What happens if I don't do it. Jail or no financial aid?

[JoshLowry]

Hell no. They're giving it out to everyone... it's all of our money too. I'd be dumb not to take advantage of their failing system.

But my point was that they aren't being clear. What happens if I don't do it. Jail or no financial aid?

No financial aid. I don't know anyone that has been put in prison for failing to register in my lifetime.

I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice. :)

[Jeremy]

Then what should I do? I can't pay for college without financial aid D:

[JoshLowry]

Then what should I do? I can't pay for college without financial aid D:

You can get financial aid from sources other than the government, right?

[Jeremy]

Wait... do you think a scholarship from the National Science Foundation counts?

Also, I know all of these programs are illegal but I want to take advantage of them as much as possible. If anyone was getting this money I'd want it to be every constitutionalist / libertarian. Same with Obama's stupid work force... we should milk that thing dry

[nate895]

One, employers can't hire you legally.

Two, no one (not even private funds) can give you any financial aid of any variety.

[Jeremy]

One, employers can't hire you legally.

Two, no one (not even private funds) can give you any financial aid of any variety.

You sure?

[nate895]

You sure?

Oregon has a big problem with it, they have advertisements in the Southern part of the state all the time explaining the consequences from the US Code.

[JoshLowry]

I wasn't awake when I registered. I figured it was normal.

When they order you to report for mandatory training that's when I would object. That's called slavery.

[nate895]

I wasn't awake when I registered. I figured it was normal.

When they order you to report for mandatory training that's when I would object. That's called slavery.

I'd go to learn how to fight in case the government gets way too tyrannical. Then again, I am a glass half-full kind of guy.

[JoshLowry]

I'd go to learn how to fight in case the government gets way too tyrannical. Then again, I am a glass half-full kind of guy.

If a government is forcing you to risk your life for causes you don't believe in, don't you think it would be considered way too tyrannical by that point?

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

I refused to sign up too, and they haven't bothered me.

There are about three million of us, so what are they going to do, throw us in a concentration camp? I haven't heard any threats about it yet. But if they come after you, I'll stand with you, we'll go down together, brother!

[nate895]

If a government is forcing you to risk your life for causes you don't believe in, don't you think it would be considered way too tyrannical by that point?

They haven't yet, they are just telling me to sign up in case. If they do, I will cross that bridge when the time comes.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

One, employers can't hire you legally.Wut. I wasn't aware of this part

FUCK ME:mad:

[TonySutton]

I never signed up!

of course I was already on active duty when they passed that silly law. equally silly, they continued to send me mail threatening me if I did not sign up. this correspondence was sent to my military address :P

our tax money at work...

[M House]

I refused to sign up too, and they haven't bothered me.

There are about three million of us, so what are they going to do, throw us in a concentration camp? I haven't heard any threats about it yet. But if they come after you, I'll stand with you, we'll go down together, brother!

Doesn't sound so far off. The SS did have alittle something to do with the Nazis awhile ago.

[powerofreason]

Join the Selective Service, it is the law and the SC has ruled against draft dodgers before. It is silly to get yourself arrested over this.

What an idiotic statement. I think he should join too, but for completely different reasons. Never ever justify doing something through legal positivism (and call yourself a libertarian or RP supporter anyways). WTF does that even mean? Some bureaucrat put pen to paper so do whatever he/she wrote? The SC ruled Dredd Scott was the property of another human being, is that ok too?


Right != Legal
Wrong != Illegal


To the OP: I would do as the mafia says to avoid being kidnapped and/or stolen from. Signing up doesn't actually do much. But, I bet if you didn't sign up they wouldn't do anything unless you get into some other type of legal trouble. I'll be turning 18 soon so I'll probably be contacted by these people soon. I'll do what they say most likely.

[Jeremy]

To the OP: I would do as the mafia says to avoid being kidnapped and/or stolen from. Signing up doesn't actually do much. But, I bet if you didn't sign up they wouldn't do anything unless you get into some other type of legal trouble. I'll be turning 18 soon so I'll probably be contacted by these people soon. I'll do what they say most likely.

This is basically why I'm most likely going to do it. Got that from Aaron Russo I believe.

I just have one question. What does signing up technically do? Is being drafted the only thing? Because first off... I don't think there will be a draft without the entire American population exploding in rage. Secondly, wouldn't they find me either way if there was one?

[nate895]

What an idiotic statement. I think he should join too, but for completely different reasons. Never ever justify doing something through legal positivism (and call yourself a libertarian or RP supporter anyways). WTF does that even mean? Some bureaucrat put pen to paper so do whatever he/she wrote? The SC ruled Dredd Scott was the property of another human being, is that ok too?


Right != Legal
Wrong != Illegal


To the OP: I would do as the mafia says to avoid being kidnapped and/or stolen from. Signing up doesn't actually do much. But, I bet if you didn't sign up they wouldn't do anything unless you get into some other type of legal trouble. I'll be turning 18 soon so I'll probably be contacted by these people soon. I'll do what they say most likely.

I wasn't arguing what the SC did was right, I was just saying that he is of no use to the freedom movement locked in a jail cell. Only get yourself locked in a jail cell when it is the absolute last resort, all other options have been exhausted. That time hasn't come yet.

[Jeremy]

I think civil disobedience is a good thing, but I am personally not currently interested in using that method (in this case at least... I'm not willing to be locked in a cage atm). If there IS a draft I will probably start using it though...

[nate895]

I think civil disobedience is a good thing, but I am personally not currently interested in using that method. If there IS a draft I will probably start.

My thinking exactly. The only way I wouldn't resist in such a circumstance is if the enemy we were facing was a clear and present danger (to borrow Tom Clancy) to the little freedom we have left. They draft me to fight Iran, no way Jose, but if China is the enemy after they have attacked, I'd probably have volunteered already.

[powerofreason]

I think civil disobedience is a good thing, but I am personally not currently interested in using that method (in this case at least... I'm not willing to be locked in a cage atm). If there IS a draft I will probably start using it though...

If there's a draft I would never in a million years show up and I hope no RP supporter/libertarian would either. That goes against everything I believe. I agree that you being in a jail cell over this would not help the movement. Unless you thought you could get some media coverage over it, then it could definitely help.

[powerofreason]

My thinking exactly. The only way I wouldn't resist in such a circumstance is if the enemy we were facing was a clear and present danger (to borrow Tom Clancy) to the little freedom we have left. They draft me to fight Iran, no way Jose, but if China is the enemy after they have attacked, I'd probably have volunteered already.

I'd fight too but not as part of the government army. Decentralized resistance movements beat invaders, government armies get steamrolled. Look at what happened in Iraq when the US military invaded them and when the Soviet military invaded Afghanistan. If at the end of the Civil War General Lee had decided to continue his fight for freedom through guerilla warfare instead of surrendering, the fight could have continued for many years.

[nate895]

I'd fight too but not as part of the government army. Decentralized resistance movements beat invaders, government armies get steamrolled. Look at what happened in Iraq when the US military invaded them and when the Soviet military invaded Afghanistan. If at the end of the Civil War General Lee had decided to continue his fight for freedom through guerilla warfare instead of surrendering, the fight could have continued for many years.

I would fight a decentralized resistance if they invaded as well (I live less than 100 miles from the coast, I wouldn't have much of a choice to begin with), but if they hadn't yet invaded and had only attacked naval installations, I'd join and get ready for invading their mainland.

As far as General Lee, the reason he opposed guerrilla warfare was because he knew that despite the fact that the South would ultimately win a war this way, it would mean the loss of everything and the South would have to start over with nothing but scorched Earth.

[IPSecure]

If they know who you are, and know you are supposed to 'register', why do not they do it?

Why do they need you to do it? What is so special, that they need you to do it?

[powerofreason]

If they know who you are, and know you are supposed to 'register', why do not they do it?

Why do they need you to do it? What is so special, that they need you to do it?

Because then its voluntary of course!

[Richie]

I turned 18 this past summer, and registered with the Selective Service without them even telling me I had to. Just for clarification, I am morally opposed to war. I would NEVER serve in the military. I registered, though, because getting fined and/or locked-up for not registering is simply not worth it. In my situation, this was not a good hill to die on. They already have all of your information. As long as you're a United States citizen with a social security number, they can do whatever they want to you anyway. Filling out a form with information that they already have is worth being left along. You can register online without signing anything, if that helps the matter.

[RickyJ]

What should I do? :|

Do what you should do, register. If they draft you in the future then tell them you are a storm commander. :D

[Andrew Ryan]

I think civil disobedience is a good thing, but I am personally not currently interested in using that method (in this case at least... I'm not willing to be locked in a cage atm). If there IS a draft I will probably start using it though...
If the draft is enacted it'll be WAY past the time for civil disobedience.

[heavenlyboy34]

Then what should I do? I can't pay for college without financial aid D:

Save your pennies till you can afford to go, same as anything else. :)

[KenInMontiMN]

Send a tornado or two their way, maybe they'll relent.

[jkm1864]

Yeah I had to do that when I hit 18. I remember the commercials on TV telling everyone is was mandatory and easy. Well hopefully I'll be to old when they decide to draft and if then my job might get me out of it due to energy being a national security risk. I am not saying i'll be safe because I think if We do get to that point jets will be sinking barges and ships in the gulf left and right. So in the future if that happens and some marine acts like he is bad ass i'll have to remind them that people will end up dying here too.

[Madcat455]

I never did it.. at least I don't remember doing it..

But all your questions, can be answered on their web site...

http://www.sss.gov/FSbenefits.htm

that link was under the "what happens if I don't register" question.

I just gave the site a quick glance.. but didn't notice any direct threats about jail or anything if you didn't register. Good luck

[Matt Collins]

Right != Legal
Wrong != Illegal

Morality and legality are two separate and distinct lines. Sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't. But morality and legality do not equate to each other.

[nate895]

I never did it.. at least I don't remember doing it..

But all your questions, can be answered on their web site...

http://www.sss.gov/FSbenefits.htm

that link was under the "what happens if I don't register" question.

I just gave the site a quick glance.. but didn't notice any direct threats about jail or anything if you didn't register. Good luck

Hmm...doesn't say anything that the ads said, but it does look like a lot of states ban you from getting a driver's license, especially Southern ones.

[powerofreason]

Morality and legality are two separate and distinct lines. Sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't. But morality and legality do not equate to each other.

You know thats what I meant right?

[Matt Collins]

There are about three million of us, so what are they going to do, throw us in a concentration camp?


Shhhh...Don't give them any ideas....

[Matt Collins]

You can get financial aid from sources other than the government, right?Unfortunately almost all FA sources, government and non-government require you to fill out the FAFSA (http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/) form.

[Matt Collins]

When called up for duty, why not just say you are a "conscientious objector"?

[powerofreason]

BTW, definitely take federal aid for college. I know I am. Do your parents work their asses off so that you can opt out of getting some stolen funds back? Loot the government in any way you can. Not only is it your right to recover stolen funds, its your obligation in my opinion. You don't want this government to stick around any longer than it has to, right? ;)

[Matt Collins]

Oh, and I did fill the form out when I was 18 because I didn't know any better. Unfortunately I don't remember what was on it.

But I don't think they can FORCE you to sign anything. In other words, under penalty of perjury you attest that the information you put on the document is true, they cant force you to sign it because that would be self-incrimination.

[powerofreason]

When called up for duty, why not just say you are a "conscientious objector"?

Is it that simple?

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

When called up for duty, why not just say you are a "conscientious objector"?This is part of my reason for not complying, though. If a draft comes, how can I claim to be a conscientious objector - morally or legally - if I've already filed my consent for a public service system?

[powerofreason]

Oh, and I did fill the form out when I was 18 because I didn't know any better. Unfortunately I don't remember what was on it.

But I don't think they can FORCE you to sign anything. In other words, under penalty of perjury you attest that the information you put on the document is true, they cant force you to sign it because that would be self-incrimination.

Meh, they do what they want. You're supposed to disclose all your income on the income tax form, and for many people thats self-incrimination.

[powerofreason]

This is part of my reason for not complying, though. If a draft comes, how can I claim to be a conscientious objector - morally or legally - if I've already filed my consent for a public service system?

Its not real consent. Its coerced consent. Which isn't consent at all. Its voluntary to sign up for the SS in the same way some people will claim taxation is voluntary.

[tangent4ronpaul]

On CO status, you generally have to back that up. Joining a Quaker (Friends) church and attending regularly would do the trick. They might still try and force you into being a medic or a Chaplin, however.

It's my understanding that if you do get drafted, you are not in the military till you take that pledge. Refuse to take it. They can't MAKE you take it, and unless you enter into that agreement, you are not in the military.

You can also try some traditional methods to get yourself declared unfit if you get called in for a physical - off color jokes about "fragging" officers and killing babies being fun... coming off like a total "flaming fagot" and hitting on everyone in uniform that is the same gender as yourself, tattooing "F*CK ARMY" on the side of your right hand or coming off like a radical commie who's anxious to pick up skills and access to materials so you can "liberate" them for the coming revolution to overthrow the proletariat, talk about how much you want to get assigned to Afghanistan so you can get your hands on some good opium and heroin, etc.

You might look up the War Resistors League for additional suggestions:

http://www.warresisters.org/

OK - to be completely counter-intuitive, you could preempt them by joining up with a MOS that will guarantee you will never see combat. There are also little known branches of the uniformed services that qualify as being in the military, but aren't really - for example NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration).

And at least in the past, being an active student was good for a deferment.

Now about paying for school - there are tons of scholarships out there that you can win given the foot work and lead time - something most students don't do, so many go un-awarded. These can be based on heritage, academics, chosen field and tons of other reasons. Private schools always have their in-house aid and at least some of them will give you a 100% paid education if you have the financial need. A HUGE factor here is your GPA - if it's high, you will have schools competing for you as a student, if it's average to low you will have a lot more of a problem getting in.

At least 2 states (NM and W.VA) have public universities where residents get 100% of their tuition covered. To be a resident, you have have lived in that state for a year.

Also thinking that non-intuitive approach, I believe it's called the Uniformed Services Institute, but they will pay for medical school and you go to theirs. MD's are never on the front lines.

You might also look at going to school overseas...

-t

[mport1]

I wish I had never signed up for it. My parents made me and at the time I was much less radical than I am today.

[Pericles]

I never signed up!

of course I was already on active duty when they passed that silly law. equally silly, they continued to send me mail threatening me if I did not sign up. this correspondence was sent to my military address :P

our tax money at work...

Me too - so I photocopied my military ID card and returned the photocopy in their envelope.

Never heard from them again.

[Jeremy]

I'm about to sign up online (so I sign nothing). Any last words from you guys before I do? =(

[Matt Collins]

Meh, they do what they want. You're supposed to disclose all your income on the income tax form, and for many people thats self-incrimination.Well... just don't sign it. Or do what I do and cross out the line that says "under penalty of perjury"

[Matt Collins]

I'm about to sign up online (so I sign nothing). Any last words from you guys before I do? =(Yeah - Clinton signed a law making "online signatures" the equivalent of paper / pen signatures.



Final words? I wouldn't worry about it. I signed up for it but this country won't be able to use a draft for a very long time, if ever, after what happened in Vietnam. If we are attacked and have to go chase a terrorist or if we have to retaliate to another country, trust me PLENTY of people will sign up voluntarily. If we are invaded, then MILLIONS will sign up voluntarily. Short of that, there is no reason the American public would accept a draft that I can think of.

[anaconda]

Huh? There is a selective service? What? I thought that ended in 1975.

[Matt Collins]

It's my understanding that if you do get drafted, you are not in the military till you take that pledge. Refuse to take it. They can't MAKE you take it, and unless you enter into that agreement, you are not in the military.I hear Leavenworth is nice this time of year :(

[Jeremy]

Huh? There is a selective service? What? I thought that ended in 1975.

Then our friend Jimmy Carter came a long :rolleyes:

[fr33domfightr]

Then are friend Jimmy Carter came a long :rolleyes:

That's when I had to register, arrrgh. The not-so-funny thing was, I was getting peer pressure to make sure I registered.

I mean, at that time, I (and my friends) were all afraid of actually getting drafted. Iran had the hostages then, and I really wondered if our government would turn on the draft engine.

Today, I'm not really afraid anymore. Not because I worry about a draft, but because I believe that our military services do train the soldiers really well.

Regarding the "draft," however, I totally disagree with it now. Not because I'm afraid to fight for my country, but because the Federal Government DOES NOT OWN ME!!! The Federal Government WAS NEVER AUTHORIZED TO OWN PEOPLE.

If war comes to our country, there will be NO PROBLEM getting volunteers to help repel any aggression toward our country. If our government goes out of its way to start unnecessary wars, the volunteers probably won't be there. It's a good way to keep our government in check, IMHO.

Don't worry. Sign up for now, as I don't expect they'll be starting a draft anytime soon.


FF

[Pericles]

I hear Leavenworth is nice this time of year :(

You are not in until you sign DD Form 4 - Enlistment in the Armed Forces of the United States - then you go to Leavenworth. If you just don't show up - it is Fed prison.

[AJ Antimony]

Just sign up, only worry about it if they actually draft you

[Matt Collins]

You are not in until you sign DD Form 4 - Enlistment in the Armed Forces of the United States - then you go to Leavenworth. If you just don't show up - it is Fed prison."Federal pound-me-in-the-ass-prison" :D













.

[Sematary]

The "Selective Service System" has just sent me a threat in the mail. I know many of you have had similar threats from this particular organization.

"Refusal to register with Selective Service is a Federal crime punishable by a fine and imprisonment."

This group is requesting my personal information and is forcing me to join their organization. If I do not comply to the demands of this violent gang, I will be putting my life, liberty, and property in danger.

What should I do? :|

Do what you think is best. If you do not want to sign up for selective service, understanding that there may be consequences for that action, then do so. If you are not willing or are unable to accept those consequences, then sign up.

[fr33domfightr]

"Federal pound-me-in-the-ass-prison" :D



.

I guess if you're going there you might as well "pack" in some K-Y to make it a little easier on you once you arrive. Doh!! :eek:


FF

[invisible]

When called up for duty, why not just say you are a "conscientious objector"?

Is it that simple?


Yes! This is exactly what I did to resolve their law with my moral and spiritual beliefs, but you need to do it when you register, not when they're telling you on the phone that you've been drafted and are to report to some location next week to start basic. This was told to me word of mouth just before I registered in the mid 1980's: you state your conscientious objector status on your registration form - there is no blank or checkbox for it, of course, so I wrote it over and over in the margins and any other available unused space elsewhere on the form. If they were ever going to try to call me up, I would have simply told them that my religious and spiritual beliefs would not allow me to kill anyone, that I would refuse to take another life. Granted, you could still be "volunteered" to do some sort of "service", but would not be placed into a situation where lethal force would be encountered (medic, cook, paperpusher, loading trucks, etc). This is not the mentality they're looking for, so your name goes to the absolute bottom of the list and you'll be literally one of the last people they would ever call up. They never bothered to call me, and I never heard from them after that. I turned 18, sent my draft registration in (with "conscientious objector" written about 25 times all over it, of course) at the same time as my voter registration, and in the first election that came along after that, voted for Ron Paul when he ran in 1988! It really was that simple.


(edit: typo corrected)

[puppetmaster]

I never signed up and I have had student loans and I have a job.

[berrybunches]

One, employers can't hire you legally.

Two, no one (not even private funds) can give you any financial aid of any variety.

In order to register you do not even need a social security number although they want you to list one. They actually require illegal aliens to register, anyone living in the country even though there is no way to check on them.
You can easily get hired and get loans, there are no checks on this and I do not think it is a law, I can not find that information.
You can't get federal loans or grants or federal jobs though and if you try to apply it will send a red flag and they will start harassing you to file.

The last time anyone was jailed for it was almost 30 years ago I believe.

My husband never registered and after you are 30 years old they can no longer prosecute you for it.

I don't think anyone should register but I understand not wanting to make your life any harder than it has to be especially if you want student loans.

[Pericles]

That's when I had to register, arrrgh. The not-so-funny thing was, I was getting peer pressure to make sure I registered.

I mean, at that time, I (and my friends) were all afraid of actually getting drafted. Iran had the hostages then, and I really wondered if our government would turn on the draft engine.

Today, I'm not really afraid anymore. Not because I worry about a draft, but because I believe that our military services do train the soldiers really well.

Regarding the "draft," however, I totally disagree with it now. Not because I'm afraid to fight for my country, but because the Federal Government DOES NOT OWN ME!!! The Federal Government WAS NEVER AUTHORIZED TO OWN PEOPLE.

If war comes to our country, there will be NO PROBLEM getting volunteers to help repel any aggression toward our country. If our government goes out of its way to start unnecessary wars, the volunteers probably won't be there. It's a good way to keep our government in check, IMHO.

Don't worry. Sign up for now, as I don't expect they'll be starting a draft anytime soon.


FF

I would point out that male citizens should be a members of the militia from age 18 to 45 and Congress does have the authority to call out the militia to repel invasions, enforce the Constitution, etc.

Thomas Paine - "those who expect to reap the blessings of liberty, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it"

[jm1776]

Please tell me how the federal government has jurisdiction over you with this law? Do you live on federal land or is this law somehow under the interstate commerce clause? :rolleyes: Or some other enumerated power?

If your union state has consequences that could be a different matter.

[Jeremy]

Please tell me how the federal government has jurisdiction over you with this law? Do you live on federal land or is this law somehow under the interstate commerce clause? :rolleyes: Or some other enumerated power?

If your union state has consequences that could be a different matter.

No... it's in case of a draft

The department's existence is illegal by the 10th Amendment and its actions are illegal by the 13th Amendment.

[olehounddog]

Is it that simple?

Sgt York was a conscientious objector. He ended up killin a whole lot of Germans.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Regarding the "draft," however, I totally disagree with it now. Not because I'm afraid to fight for my country, but because the Federal Government DOES NOT OWN ME!!! The Federal Government WAS NEVER AUTHORIZED TO OWN PEOPLE.

If war comes to our country, there will be NO PROBLEM getting volunteers to help repel any aggression toward our country. If our government goes out of its way to start unnecessary wars, the volunteers probably won't be there. It's a good way to keep our government in check, IMHO.

Any government that has to rely on conscript troops does not deserve to exist.



Don't worry. Sign up for now, as I don't expect they'll be starting a draft anytime soon.


FF

Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, North Korea, China, Russia...

Don't count on it - an Oh-Bomb-Us administration will have us looking back and thinking how good we had it under Bush...

-t

[Matt Collins]

I guess if you're going there you might as well "pack" in some K-Y to make it a little easier on you once you arrive. Doh!! :eek:


Here is a skinhead's guide to surviving prison:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=122082

[BarryDonegan]

One, employers can't hire you legally.

Two, no one (not even private funds) can give you any financial aid of any variety.

this is not true.