don't let the door hit you in the a-- on your way out!

[PatriotG]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081215/ap_on_re_us/return_to_mexico

After going months without a full-time job, Daniel Ramirez has decided it's time to return to family in Mexico.

Vicenta Rodriguez Lopez says she can't afford to live in Colorado any more because her husband was deported.

Roberto Espinoza is going back, too. After 18 years as a mechanic for a General Motors dealership in Denver, his work permit wasn't renewed and he didn't want to remain in the country illegally.

All are leaving Colorado in time for Christmas — joining a traditional holiday migration that will number almost 1 million people, says Mexico's interior ministry. But they have no intention of returning to Colorado, a place that promised prosperity.

Layoffs, dwindling job opportunities, anti-immigrant sentiment and the crackdown on illegal immigrants are forcing hard choices on many Mexican nationals in Colorado. Though not an exodus, some are returning to a nation they haven't seen in years.

[Natalie]

That link doesn't work.

Well, at least he had a work permit.

[Mesogen]

Damn dude, that's harsh. What do you have against this family? What did they do to you?

[PatriotG]

Damn dude, that's harsh. What do you have against this family? What did they do to you?

Nothing personal to them and certainly mexicans as a whole.
I just have major issues with illegal immigration.

I have been hearing alot of horror stories lately from S. California, Arizona, New Mexico. I got a little pissed when I read the article.

[dannno]

I just have major issues with illegal immigration.

I have been hearing alot of horror stories lately from S. California, Arizona, New Mexico.

I've lived in Southern California my whole life.

I grew up within miles of one of the largest illegal encampments in all of California, I think it may have been the largest.

I've lived primarily in Mexican neighborhoods since then.

I have zero horror stories for you.

What you are hearing is likely propaganda.

As far as the immigration, that was caused by NAFTA when our government forced their government to change their constitution that they fought for. It doubled their poverty in a manner of years, which caused the max exodus. When the Zapatista rebels fought back against the Mexican army to restore their rights to their land, the US backed the Mexican army. So, essentially it's our fault because we supported their military to force a mass migration to the US.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I don't have a thing against them...My concern is loss of jobs for citizens and welfare issues. I quite like latin people..they are good moral people, usually good catholics. They stay with their families, they work their butts off. I have many latino friends ...from my military days etc. I just don't think the UsA can support so many at once. I'd rather them than the haitians who don't work at all. Tones

[Sergeant Brother]

Good riddance, hopefully this is the start of a new trend.

[pcosmar]

I haven't been able to find work for 3 years, and yet a bunch of Illegals were recently busted at a logging camp nearby.
Maybe with a few less of them some jobs may open for Americans.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[mtmedlin]

I would have a major problem with illegal immigration if it wasnt the US who stole most of Mexicos oil rich lands and robbed them of their future prosperity. Funny how our actions keep coming back to bite us i the ass.

[Mesogen]

I don't have a thing against them...My concern is loss of jobs for citizens and welfare issues. I quite like latin people..they are good moral people, usually good catholics. They stay with their families, they work their butts off. I have many latino friends ...from my military days etc. I just don't think the UsA can support so many at once. I'd rather them than the haitians who don't work at all. Tones

Define "support." If they are coming here and working and living, they are presumably buying things too. They are renting/buying houses and apartments.

They are now part of the local economy.


I haven't been able to find work for 3 years, and yet a bunch of Illegals were recently busted at a logging camp nearby.
Maybe with a few less of them some jobs may open for Americans.

But I'm not holding my breath.
Do people refuse to hire you or something? There are no jobs for you whatsoever?

Or is it that the law requires things of you that it doesn't require of the immigrants? If it's that, then the problem is with the law not with the immigrants.

[pcosmar]

Define "support." If they are coming here and working and living, they are presumably buying things too. They are renting/buying houses and apartments.

They are now part of the local economy.


Do people refuse to hire you or something? There are no jobs for you whatsoever?

Or is it that the law requires things of you that it doesn't require of the immigrants? If it's that, then the problem is with the law not with the immigrants.

I lived in the Fl. Keys for many years. I Knew Cuban Americans that were hard working, honest people. However they are the minority.
Most refuse to learn the language, and apply for all the perks as soon as they arrive.
It is common to see a new car and gold necklaces, while watching them pay with food stamps.
I have seen families here a week with a new truck pulling a new boat. They get a Govt backed credit card.
Those Honest Cubans that have been here a while and worked for their living are just as disgusted.

As far as my situation, I am puzzled too. But I have watched out of state folks and illegals working in the area. There are NO jobs for locals.
Walmart is the largest employer, other than the State. I was turned down there after passing all their Tests. Something in the Background check.
I don't understand that, as I have been through security checks before. The one in Key West for the Port Pass was done by the FBI.
The area I am in has the Highest unemployment in the country, and getting worse.

[Chosen]

If you support illegal immigration then you obviously have no understanding of the rule of law. This is the issue. But it is quite tiring to keep educating open borders socialists. I find it silly that socialists are even attracted to Ron Paul, since he is effectively opposed to most everything they stand for. This sort of non-sense is like the Pro Choice Ron Paul supporters I have seen. Mentally clueless.

It would be proper to uphold the notion that most pariah see heroic reflections in their vanity mirrors. Most surely the psychology of a person who is knowingly committing a crime, destroying another’s culture and society, believes in a mythical origin to their race (as is the concept of Aztlan), seeks to feed the ravenous monsters of their constant doubt with propaganda and denial. Illegal aliens from Mexico digest a constant stream of nationalistic hate and brainwashing from Mexican language television, radio and print media. These broadcasting networks, funded by special interests groups, invested and financed via hedge funds (which aren’t regulated or tracked), emit propaganda at a level that would make Stalin blush. Somehow, at some point, the illegal alien from Mexico’s mind has become an irreparable engine of broken thinking. For the normal person, in a situation where they are harming others, this normal person feels regret, remorse and tends to reflect on what they have done. For individuals with broken thinking, the reaction to causing harm ranges from denial, to utter joy and jubilation. Illegal aliens from Mexico seem to enjoy causing harm to others. If we simply look into the volumes of archival footage, pictures and recorded audio of their protests for amnesty from the felonies they have committed, we see illegal aliens causing harm and taking enjoyment in it. It is important to understand that they KNOW they have done wrong and have committed a crime, they are conscious of this, and they take great pleasure in the crimes destructive and hurtful aftermaths, they want the American public’s lives to be destroyed for the sake of their greed. They could care less about the rape, murders, the drunken driving accidents, std’s, theft of identity, fraud, larceny, and in some cases arson. Very simply in the illegal aliens mind, they can do as they please because they are just. They are simply reclaiming what was “stolen from them.” This of course replaces the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo with mythological, nationalistic Mexican creationism. Illegal aliens from Mexico believe that somehow, contrary to archaeology, science and history, that the area of the United States reaching up to Oregon and thru the Rockies was Aztec. They embrace this ideology, as make-believe as it is, in order to ignore the sovereignty of the United States so they may be able to do as they please in the United States and be above its laws and rules.

Of course having hordes of uneducated peasants, who are willing to subvert law abiding citizens has far reaching benefits for collectivists who wish to undermine United States sovereignty. The traditional American culture of Liberty, Independence and Self Reliance contains almost everything antithetical to collectivist doctrine, which holds that god is the state and that the sole purpose of man is to serve the collective. In short, Americans and their culture are obstacles to globalism and collectivist expansion. Illegal aliens from Mexico, Mexican soldiers out of uniform and Latino activists are the foot soldiers for tearing apart this last remaining obstacle. The collectivist onslaught is comprised of some basic goals, illegal aliens and the country of Mexico are the enforcers for this doctrine.

Some of the basic goals of illegal alien collectivism and illegal immigrants are designed to attack American culture, two main cultural attacks are:

1. The sabotage of the family. The main reason for this is that the traditional American family has sort of an odd Western version of filial piety that leads directly back to the founding fathers. From this connection we derive our history, sense of importance and identity. What we do and are comes from this connection. For the past 70 + years, collectivists have endeavored to destroy the family, with hopes of eliminating the father and rendering his useless. The idea is to destroy paternalism, or even male influence in the west, because it tends to teach self reliance and responsibility. Paternalism creates rites of passage for young individuals, which fosters traditionalism and connection. This is terrible for collectivists. In their eyes, the use of feminism, with its inherent characteristic of group nurture provides a strong method of disconnecting Americans from traditionalism and rites of passage. Collectivists want the American to dismiss and devalue any transmission of information from a paternal figure. The want the collective state to replace the father.
2. The elimination of nations as proposed in the Communist Manifesto. The illegal aliens from Mexico are ideally suited for collectivist puppeteers given their illegal presence in the United States. If amnesty is granted to illegal aliens, it will then devalue the rule of law as a whole and subsequently dismantle sovereign right. The rule of law is derived from the sovereign assertion of a right to exist. The very second an individual is allowed to ignore the national boundary of a country then avoid prosecution under the law, and ultimately have the law (which isn’t even theirs) changed to favor their violation and provide them with amnesty, the value of every law is negated and subjected to cosmopolitan whims. Cosmopolitan law is simple the language of decline and evident in the downward spiral phase of any fallen sovereign, this would surely be the condition collectivists wish for. All flavors of collectivism believe that they would be able to position themselves to inherit the weakened infrastructure of a nation in decline. In the case of Germany in 1919, the collectivist terrorist group the Spartacus League, sought to take advantage of Germany’s weakened state after World War I and overthrow the Republic. They conducted many violent attacks on the streets of Berlin against police, civilians and business owners. Once it was clear that the German Republic was able to stop the attempted overthrow, collectivist leaders started to denounce the attacks in an attempt to distance themselves. They proclaimed to then support peaceful overthrow. This is the way of most collectivist organizations, publically champion human rights if it can foster decay or provide power, and to also present a “moral” face, but underneath they support violence, propaganda and subjugation. Lenin felt obligated to comment on the Spartacus League coup d’état in Germany as mistimed, demonstrating the globalist reach and influence of collectivism, since of course Lenin was Soviet. Illegal aliens from Mexico are the new Spartacus League.

The war collectivism wages on America, as employed by illegal aliens from Mexico is a war on culture. This war on culture is simply due to the existence of a paternal culture, with norms of reciprocity, rights of passage and strong beliefs in identity derived from history. The following is simply a list of methodologies employed by illegal aliens from Mexico, global corporations and collectivist organizations in general.

Illegal Aliens from Mexico/Collectivist sabotage of American methodologies:

1. The destruction of religious identity and holiday as it relates to cultural practice.
2. The slander, denigration, vandalism and dismantling of cultural relics and icons.
3. Disconnection of spiritualism and higher belief of the individual outside of the state. This includes self reliance.
4. Hypocritical violence. A technique of using violence, slander and intimidation, but preaching peace, human rights and tolerance.
5. Academic reformation by infiltration. Collectivists have disconnected American higher learning institutions from science. They create an intellectual wall, only cloning themselves thru the selection of doctoral and masters candidates who share their ideology. Cutting off access to higher learning and research to non-collectivists.
6. Maintain the semblance and appearance of contemporary culture for external purposes, but changing the content.

Illegal aliens from Mexico are the biggest threat to the United States ever seen. They carry with them the willing compliance to carry out the destructive properties of collectivism. The goal of Mexico is to erode our Rule of Law.

[Kludge]

I quite like latin people..they are good moral people, usually good catholics.

Wtf am I doing here?

[Chosen]

This propaganda about illegal aliens not being a threat is just that, real propaganda.

Before anything else listen to mexican leaders and activists here in their own words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM


There is much information, on tape that documents the behavior of illegal aliens from Mexico.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mitptd2-tV4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y721T9nX0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34q9omSAR4w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vno2agyh484

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKxUlPzbCGc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KolbvYXhlCU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJOrIZ5ZrXY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDquuClWNsI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCo0gpSPlTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irFvUBdhEgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldbSrxyk1UI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRgTQcg7JTc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrRr66E0ofU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhovjSi0NLk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QICLyzsvtgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ6cCPbA8jo

This was just 5 minutes of video searching.

[Chosen]

Please watch the numbersusa video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgz6ZCqhtg

[heavenlyboy34]

Illegal "immigration" is part of the NWO scheme, IMHO. :p

BTW, the people who are now "Mexicans" were not the original people who lived here. It was Indian("native american") land.

The Spaniards interbred with people in many of the lands they conquered (mezzo/south America), which is why Spanish is the prevalant language there. Even today, the Mexican caste system places descendants of Spaniards in the upper strata, and the descendents of Mezzo-American Indians at the bottom. If you ever come to Arizona, you can visit the museums and learn all about this kind of stuff. :D

[heavenlyboy34]

Did you get video of the "Phoenix March" a few years ago? I don't have time to look at all these right now. It was a bizarre display indeed. If not, you should find some footage to show the naysayers on this thread.



This propaganda about illegal aliens not being a threat is just that, real propaganda.

Before anything else listen to mexican leaders and activists here in their own words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM


There is much information, on tape that documents the behavior of illegal aliens from Mexico.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mitptd2-tV4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y721T9nX0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34q9omSAR4w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vno2agyh484

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKxUlPzbCGc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KolbvYXhlCU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJOrIZ5ZrXY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDquuClWNsI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCo0gpSPlTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irFvUBdhEgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldbSrxyk1UI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRgTQcg7JTc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrRr66E0ofU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhovjSi0NLk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QICLyzsvtgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ6cCPbA8jo

This was just 5 minutes of video searching.

[heavenlyboy34]

Wtf am I doing here?

Fucking up, same as you do everywhere else!

[Chosen]

Did you get video of the "Phoenix March" a few years ago? I don't have time to look at all these right now. It was a bizarre display indeed. If not, you should find some footage to show the naysayers on this thread.

I did see it, but I do not have a link. I also saw the people who came at to protest Arpaio. The illegal aliens brought shotguns and Kalishnakovs!

[Mesogen]

If you support civil disobedience then you obviously have no understanding of the rule of law. This is the issue.

Just do whatever the law tells you from now on.


There should be no such thing as "illegal" immigration. From any country to any country.



1. The sabotage of the family.

Most Mexicans and Central Americans have much stronger family ties than most US Americans.

The rest of it seems to be a lot of fear mongering about how Mexicans are going to annihilate your culture. It's just not realistic.



Please watch the numbersusa video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgz6ZCqhtg

It has nothing to do with "concern for the third world." It has to do with freedom. If I want to transport myself to some other point on the surface of the planet, why do I have to pay fees and fill out paperwork to get permission from some office? Maybe they fear that I'll go over and ruin someone else's culture or something.

[TruckinMike]

(US)Borders, (english) Language, and (our)Culture. -- and respect for OUR history, and OUR founding Fathers.

Without it our country dissolves into a number, a sector, just a region on the map at the United Nations. The Global corporatist have been pushing the immigration, melting pot, propaganda for years. And for years it has been undermining our Country. Our founding fathers are NOT their founding fathers. It does not matter what color the skin colors are, or where they come from, the result is still the same. Our Constitution, our history, our culture, our country is being destroyed by the global elites that push this PC crap on Americans.

The feel good multiculturalism has pervaded our culture and now we get to live in it. A cess pool of divisiveness, created by the our handlers, designed to divide so they can conqour(while we sleep). --- enter Jesses Jackson, La Raza, La Mecha et al

Bring in the lower strata from across the globe, bring in their socialist ideology, bring in their selfish desire for the government to feed them --- And lose your country.

PS- a heavy heaping of the hispanic green carders(and illegals) as well as a heavy heaping of Anglo- eastern european green carders(and illegals) are on social services. Mooching on the teet, suckling like little socialist pigs. Waiting for their turn to vote YOU out of your Country--- Its not about color. Its about globalism and the destruction of the US Constitution.

200,000 immigrants illegal/legal enter America's shores every month. 100,000 Natural born Americans enter this country via birth every month. There is a picture here. If you can't see it - then you have been blinded by the propaganda.

TMIKE

[brandon]

I for one welcome Mexicans or anyone else who want to come to our country. I don't think people need "legal permission" to move across some arbitrary border.

[brandon]

If you support illegal immigration then you obviously have no understanding of the rule of law. This is the issue. But it is quite tiring to keep educating open borders socialists. I find it silly that socialists are even attracted to Ron Paul, since he is effectively opposed to most everything they stand for. This sort of non-sense is like the Pro Choice Ron Paul supporters I have seen. Mentally clueless.


lol, what does socialism have to do with open borders? I would say virtually nothing. Socialism requires that all citizens be documented so the government can collect tax money from them, so socialism and open borders could never exist together!

Now, would you like to try to educate an open borders capitalist such as myself?



What do you call it when one group of people is afraid of competition in the marketplace, so they get a government to forcefully neutralize said competition? I would contend that those who are for closed borders are against the free market.

[brandon]

Look at this beach.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Borderbeachtj.jpg


If you swim out to the end of that fence and try to go to the other side, big men with guns will put you into a cage or kill you. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

[Andrew Ryan]

"A nation without borders is not a nation"

[TruckinMike]

Look at this beach.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Borderbeachtj.jpg


If you swim out to the end of that fence and try to go to the other side, big men with guns will put you into a cage or kill you. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?


You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere... and that looks like a mighty fine spot to me. :D

...I guess I really didn't answer the implied question "look at this beach?" As if I'm suppose to get all emotional about it. That happens to be the problem. YOU can't afford emotionalism to get in the way of fact.

If you value the Constitution and country, you better value our border and fear mass immigration.

TMike

[Dieseler]

I for one welcome Mexicans or anyone else who want to come to our country. I don't think people need "legal permission" to move across some arbitrary border.

You just made me fucking hate bunchies.

[Chosen]

Just do whatever the law tells you from now on.




You intentionally misquoted me. I said:
If you support illegal immigration then you obviously have no understanding of the rule of law.

You replaced illegal immigration with civil disobedience.

http://aztlandestroyer.com/public/originswebsmall.png

[Chosen]

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9730/absolutaztlanow3.png

[Chosen]

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/989/albertspeertk2.png

[PatriotG]

Mexico opens help line for migrants to Arizona
Tue, Dec 16 11:03 AM EST

By David Schwartz

PHOENIX (Reuters) - The Mexican government has opened a special call center in Arizona to provide a sympathetic ear for citizens caught up in crackdown on illegal immigration in the desert state.:confused:

Officials at the Mexican consulate in Tucson said they opened the center last week. It is available 24-hours-a-day to field complaints from Mexican nationals about their treatment in the border state, where as many as half a million illegal immigrants live and work in the shadows.

"We want to offer a human voice at the other end of the line, so they can feel protected and know that someone is here for them," Alejandro Ramos, head of the consulate's Department of Protection, told Reuters.

Feelings run high about illegal immigration in the United States, where an estimated 12 million undocumented workers and their children hide from authorities.

After the U.S. government failed to pass legislation overhauling immigration laws last year, many U.S. states and some local authorities have acted to clamp down on illegal immigrants, including Arizona, which passed a law to block the hiring of illegal workers.

Ramos said that these and other anti-immigrant measures are responsible for a hike in the number of calls to the five Arizona consulates. A combined 2,400 calls are logged each week.

"We're getting more and more calls from people requiring our services," Ramos said. "One of the factors is that, in a way, life has become harsher for them in the state of Arizona."

Ramos said the call center idea stemmed from a new initiative issued last year by Mexico President Felipe Calderon to improve communications with Mexicans living outside the country.

The line was greeted with skepticism by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who launched his own efforts to crack down on illegal immigrants in the Phoenix area, roughly 200 miles from the border, with highly publicized raids.

"I hope that if someone calls in and is in violation of the law that they would pass it along to me," Arpaio said. "I hope they tip me off, so I can do my job."

[angelatc]

I would have a major problem with illegal immigration if it wasnt the US who stole most of Mexicos oil rich lands and robbed them of their future prosperity. Funny how our actions keep coming back to bite us i the ass.

Oh quit whining. We didn't steal anything. They lost at war. That's how the world works.

They still have plenty of oil. They have tons of natural resources, but they're just too lazy to stay home and fix their own country. Freaking cities in Mexico have double digit, subsidized unemployment, but Danno lives next to thousands of people who are working here illegally. What's wrong with this picture?

The corporations used the cheap illegal labor to enslave us all.

The bankers screwed them, we didn't. They're here illegally and they need to go home.

[angelatc]

What do you call it when one group of people is afraid of competition in the marketplace, so they get a government to forcefully neutralize said competition? I would contend that those who are for closed borders are against the free market.

Great. End the entitlements, and I'll happily open the borders. But our government has no intention of endling entitlements, and all that extra labor kept wages down and hurt the American worker.

Send their illegal asses home. Anchor babies too.