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View Full Version : Bill O'Reilly Doesn't Want A History Lesson...




FluffyUnbound
09-10-2007, 06:38 PM
...because he knows that history doesn't support his mendacious fantasies about an aggressive or expansive Iran.

james1844
09-10-2007, 06:47 PM
That interview was not good. O'Rilley owned Paul.

james1844
09-10-2007, 06:50 PM
I don't, Paul was on the defensive the whole time. Thats not what we need in front of a national audience if our candidate is going to get elected president.

Kuldebar
09-10-2007, 06:52 PM
It was good interview considering the arena where it occurred.

O'Reilly pretty much admitted that he didn't have time for history, well he never has time for historical lessons it appears to me. I think BO illustrated the central problem with the pro-GWOT'ers; they don't like considering current and passing events in any historical context. And we all know what it means when you disregard history.

I especially liked Paul's run down of the aggressive actions that our nation has directed toward Iran over the decades and how Paul mentioned that Iran was acting logically (understandably) in regards to stepping up their resistance to US foreign intervention in the region. The comment about how our pressure undermines the peace movement or political resistance to the Iranian government within Iran was also a good one. It becomes apparent that BO and the others that support the neo-con agenda have no ability to place him self in the shoes of "the enemy" as a means to attempt to understand them.

BO's long winded questions aside, I think Paul was able to get his position out to some extent, hopefully enough for the curious to be inspired to look further on their own.

edmnn
09-10-2007, 06:53 PM
I didn't think the interview was that good since O'Reilly didn't let him answer but I thought that Ron Paul telling him to be careful with his quoting and saying that he did vote to go after bin Laden may have redeemed himself a little.

jd603
09-10-2007, 06:53 PM
He handled things polite and professionally, Bill O did not. Ron let Bill's colors shine through. What's Ron going to do, lose his cool and start screaming?

Bill used his standard, muffle the guest when he starts to win the argument approach. It is just sad his alleged 2 million viewers do not see how much of a fake bill oreily really is...



I don't, Paul was on the defensive the whole time. Thats not what we need in front of a national audience if our candidate is going to get elected president.

itsnobody
09-10-2007, 06:55 PM
O'Reilly completely DESTROYED Ron Paul in that interview, that was Ron Paul at his absolute WORST....this was by far the WORST publicity for Ron Paul EVER...all those 2 million viewers aren't going to go for Ron Paul...

I'm not trying to be against Ron Paul, I just call it like I see it...

john_anderson_ii
09-10-2007, 06:56 PM
He handled things polite and professionally, Bill O did not. Ron let Bill's colors shine through. What's Ron going to do, lose his cool and start screaming?

Bill used his standard, muffle the guest when he starts to win the argument approach. It is just sad his alleged 2 million viewers do not see how much of a fake bill oreily really is...

I saw a tie. Each one gave a little and got a little. Each one had valid points. I don't want a nuclear capable Iran either.

However, that wasn't a debate. Our politicians need to be debating the merits of these issues with each other. Not stupid reporters who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. This country needs a lot more discussion on this issue, not a knee jerk reaction.

Orly is a complete ass and detrimental to the republic, of that there is no doubt. Stifling open debate is the reason this country is the way it is in the first place.

Kuldebar
09-10-2007, 06:58 PM
O'Reilly completely DESTROYED Ron Paul in that interview, that was Ron Paul at his absolute WORST....this was by far the WORST publicity for Ron Paul EVER...all those 2 million viewers aren't going to go for Ron Paul...

I'm not trying to be against Ron Paul, I just call it like I see it...


You sure you watched the same interview?

I don't see anything like what you are saying. Paul made logical points, used history and explained his reasoning. O'Reilly's long winded questions and invalid assertions do not make an argument.

AFTFNJ
09-10-2007, 06:58 PM
MSM will never let RP look good. People in power will not give up that power without a fight.

alexlcameron
09-10-2007, 06:58 PM
This is bad guys. I agree that he probably done the best he could however the average viewer just watched Ron get owned. I hope that we can recover from this.

apropos
09-10-2007, 06:59 PM
On the positive side, that's the worst situation Paul will ever be in.

The thing that people won't remember about this interview is that O'Reilly didn't want to hear the historical context of his reasoning. That's important. When historical context is ruled out of bounds or is considered unimportant, than it is hard to argue for any point. Even O'Reilly couldn't make a point without using historical knowledge and historical context. Tonight was an example of 'good for me but not for thee'.

(most) Americans want to hear the wisdom of the past. We don't need Paul to win every debate every time. We just need to get someone curious enough to think about his views. The hardest part of this battle will be getting people to actually stop and examine the issues. Remember: Paul is the message, not the man.

Kuldebar
09-10-2007, 07:00 PM
Well, perspective helps. I recall people saying Ron Paul did poorly after each presidential debate, and we later find that not to be the case. Wait and see.

nunaem
09-10-2007, 07:00 PM
O'Reilly completely DESTROYED Ron Paul in that interview, that was Ron Paul at his absolute WORST....this was by far the WORST publicity for Ron Paul EVER...all those 2 million viewers aren't going to go for Ron Paul...

I'm not trying to be against Ron Paul, I just call it like I see it...

Care to explain?

itsnobody
09-10-2007, 07:02 PM
Care to explain?

Sure, in EVERY other debate or interview Ron Paul always was calm and confident of himself and confronted the actual issues....in this debate however he appeared nervous and unsure of himself, escaping the issue...I've NEVER seen Ron Paul like that EVER...

beermotor
09-10-2007, 07:02 PM
This is bad guys. I agree that he probably done the best he could however the average viewer just watched Ron get owned. I hope that we can recover from this.


Are you joking? Do you think Bill Fucking OReilly can kill the Freedom train? Holy crap ... "I find your lack of faith disturbing..." We are talking about an inconsequential NOBODY in the grand scheme. I'm sure 85% of Bill's viewers didn't vote in the last election.

The ones that did would likely never vote for Ron Paul anyway. But the ones that did not vote are the ones we can still reach. That is the point, that is the goal. Stick to your guns, guys.

0zzy
09-10-2007, 07:03 PM
Sure, in EVERY other debate or interview Ron Paul always was calm and confident of himself and confronted the actual issues....in this debate however he appeared nervous and unsure of himself...I've NEVER seen Ron Paul like that EVER...

Because he was never approached like that in an interview? Have you ever had someone talking over you when you are trying to give an answer, stating false facts, and won't let you talk for more than 12 seconds at a time? I think not.

ButchHowdy
09-10-2007, 07:05 PM
It seems the newbie (100 or less) posters think Ron Did NOT do well and the veterans (100 or more) think Ron DID do well.

I think Ron was intellectually superb, as always. Perhaps he should get a tad more rest next time before wrestling with a rabid Neocon

nunaem
09-10-2007, 07:05 PM
Sure, in EVERY other debate or interview Ron Paul always was calm and confident of himself and confronted the actual issues....in this debate however he appeared nervous and unsure of himself, escaping the issue...I've NEVER seen Ron Paul like that EVER...

I guess I'll have to watch it again, didn't notice that. I noticed he didn't put up much of a fight to Orly's false statements, but its sort of futile to debate that moron.

itsnobody
09-10-2007, 07:06 PM
Because he was never approached like that in an interview? Have you ever had someone talking over you when you are trying to give an answer, stating false facts, and won't let you talk for more than 12 seconds at a time? I think not.

Well I call it like I see it, Ron Paul should've known how O'Reilly acts, like everyone else does, he could handle that guy in the 80s who shouted at him saying "I WOULD PUKE ON YOU" but he can't handle O'Reilly?

skilt
09-10-2007, 07:07 PM
BO likes spin, as long as it's his own. RP didn't get owned, or beat down, he was treated rudely, and any objective individual could see that. Was he able to communicate, no - because in reality the whole interview was a statement of F/U on Hannity's comments post debate. BO was just stating the fox position. And to prevent a dissenting opinion he would ask a question, and then interrupt to prevent intelligent discourse. He looked like an ass, RP looked like class. The point for RP is his name was in front of ~ 2 million people, of which 10% may google him tonight, of which 10% may be inspired and empowered. I think we could use an extra 20k people in the movement to spread the word.

So chill the phuck out and get perspective, and quit spending so much time on this forum and more time making signs, organizing and donating. Less time in front of the computer, more time pounding the pavement. We're on here way too much, me included, and not doing enough substantive work to get him the nomination. All the energy needs to push positive, trust me, that piece will not keep RP from getting elected, wasting time and energy on it will.

My thoughts

sk

Electrostatic
09-10-2007, 07:07 PM
Ok, I'm here to piss you off,... (Sorry, but someone has to do it :p )

FACT: Bill O'Reilly is a scumbag pontificating warmonger yellow journalist with less credibility that spray cheese.

FACT: We all already knew this.

FACT: Bitching about it on the boards will do nothing to help win this campaign.

I'm getting ready to deliver several hundred Ron Paul Event signs through downtown Seattle so Friday here will be a success. There are others working the phones to get friendly organizations out as well. We are also working the local media angle, although that hasn't taken off yet (we are still trying! Politely!) We put up about 100 more RP signs in an overnight last night. We have a table at one of the largest fairs in the state right now. We handed over 10,000 flyers out at hempfest last month. We have started door to door canvassing (Although we need to do more!) We have started organizing local GOP activists. (Although we need more of them also!) Don't get me wrong... EVEN WITH ALL THIS WE ARE WAY FAR BEHIND HERE!!! Where would you say you are right now?

Now, taking into account that bashing O'Reilly on this board does nothing to help in the real world, what have you done to get Ron Paul elected today?

(Please do not hate me, but it has to be asked, we are down to WEEKS, not seasons.)

Kuldebar
09-10-2007, 07:07 PM
I guess I'll have to watch it again, didn't notice that. I noticed he didn't put up much of a fight to Orly's false statements, but its sort of futile to debate that moron.


Actually Paul did counter BO's false assertions, but BO said he didn't have time for a history lesson.

Bill O'Reilly didn't want to be confused with the facts.

Johnnybags
09-10-2007, 07:10 PM
Actually Paul did counter BO's false assertions, but BO said he didn't have time for a history lesson.

Bill O'Reilly didn't want to be confused with the facts.

and never guage history as any kind of predictor of the future.

Every day I touch the flame on my stove and every day I get burned, hopefully one day I won't. Forget history.

Dary
09-10-2007, 07:12 PM
O'reilly shows his ass again.

Paul makes the point that the reformers are trying to gain control of Iran and we are about to attack them, which would cause an outcome that would directly contradict our national security interests.

Of course O'reilly ignores it.

O'Reilly won’t let Paul answer the questions because he isn’t answering them in the way he wants him to.

Ron does make the point at the end that we don’t need to be into nation building and that we need to defend ourselves here at home.

FluffyUnbound
09-10-2007, 07:13 PM
I didn't choose the name of this thread by accident.

That has to be the meme from this appearance: Bill O'Reilly doesn't want to hear about history.

OURPLAN
09-10-2007, 07:14 PM
Ron looked like he wasn't feeling well.
His mouth looked weird.
Like he had been to the dentist.

SewrRatt
09-10-2007, 07:16 PM
People who think arguments are won by being an ass, controlling the discussion through loudness and interrupting think O'Reilly won. People who think logical arguments, decorum, perspective and educated big-picture thinking win arguments think the Dr. won. That's my observation so far. As for me, I'm in the Ron Paul kicked O'Reilly's closed-minded, fearmongering, fit-throwing ass camp.

RP4ME
09-10-2007, 07:18 PM
I just felt it was kind of a non - event. It wasnt as good a showcase of RP as teh debates were - I relaize he had no oppty to really get his entire thought out - as Billo would interrupt him when he knew he was gonna school him. I think he will shine where he can fully express his thoughts. Debates offer more for RP. 20 sec responses dont really help anyone communicate complex ideas. JHU tommorow - someone please post video or transcripts! I misse dteh fire in his belly but ya know it may have been smarter not to mirror Billo.

pcosmar
09-10-2007, 07:19 PM
Electrostatic

Ok, I'm here to piss you off,... (Sorry, but someone has to do it )

FACT: Bill O'Reilly is a scumbag pontificating warmonger yellow journalist with less credibility that spray cheese.

FACT: We all already knew this.

FACT: Bitching about it on the boards will do nothing to help win this campaign.
I like it, especialy the "spray cheese"
BTW, it's late here.

syborius
09-10-2007, 07:21 PM
I hate to say it, but Bill O'reilly did very well here, despite being wrong of course, he still came off as rational. Ron Paul is correct when he says it is our foreign policy that is the root cause of Islamic extremism, unfortunately the masses will forever be blinded by the argument that this has become a threat that we must solve only through war. There will always be a base of people that will be guided by their irrational fear of terrorism, and that is exactly how the Problem-reaction-solution paradigm works, and the argument for staying is bolstered by our very own actions. The neocons knew once this war was started it would probably be endless. It is like attacking a 500 pound gorilla. The reality is that nobody has the nerve to stop fighting the gorilla because in the long run that gorilla will probably pounce on you, and that is unfortunately not far from the truth. Some fights were better off left alone. This fight against Islam for Oil and Corporate interests does exactly what Ron Paul claims, makes us less safe. The question still persists though. What do we do about it? In either case you can lay the blame squarely on the neocons for whatever disasters loom in the not to distant future.

ItsTime
09-10-2007, 07:22 PM
I watched thinking BO would not allow Ron to speak and just yell at him. Well BO didnt yell like I thought he would but did talk all over RP. RP held his ground and looked really good doing so! You could see that BO was frustrated with the facts that RP was giving Good job RP!

catwoman
09-10-2007, 07:23 PM
I don't, Paul was on the defensive the whole time. Thats not what we need in front of a national audience if our candidate is going to get elected president.

Everyone is on defense on O'Reilly. He's the only one ALLOWED on offense. If he sees someone gaining on him, he just shouts over them.

JPFromTally
09-10-2007, 07:23 PM
Why didn't we go after the Saudis?

SewrRatt
09-10-2007, 07:24 PM
Sure, in EVERY other debate or interview Ron Paul always was calm and confident of himself and confronted the actual issues....in this debate however he appeared nervous and unsure of himself, escaping the issue...I've NEVER seen Ron Paul like that EVER...

Congratulations, you've allowed yourself to be blatantly manipulated by O'Reilly. Ron appeared uncomfortable, which is understandable given he was under attack. He was, however, not unsure of himself or trying to escape the issue. O'Reilly (falsely) accused Ron of dodging the issue when in fact he was trying to put some context into it. If the person you're debating is required to directly answer your questions completely out of context, of course you're going to "win". The point is O'Reilly manipulated you into thinking Ron Paul was evasive when in fact O'Reilly was demanding an unreasonably and ridiculously limited answer, devoid of context and misleading. He might as well have asked Ron, "So why are you an unrepentant child molester?" and insisted the fact that Ron is not was irrelevant and not allowed.

Alabama Supporter
09-10-2007, 07:25 PM
I think he performed as well as can be expected. Don't forget that these interviews are highly edited in favor of the Spinmeister.

There were 3 telling moments that I think people would respond favorably to.

1. Billo stating at the beginning of the show he is only giving Patraeus 1 more year, then they need to get the heck out of the middle east.
2. Billo stating that "its debatable" that Iran won by us invading. Debatable = Fact in the no spin zone.
3. I don't have time for "history". Old people that watch this show remember history because most of them lived through it.

Electrostatic
09-10-2007, 07:27 PM
Electrostatic

I like it, especialy the "spray cheese"
BTW, it's late here.

Oh, sorry.. Didn't think of that. (it was only 6 here when I posted..):o

ItsTime
09-10-2007, 07:28 PM
ps, we are forgetting this is fox no one with rational thinking ever looks good there :)

Omnis
09-10-2007, 07:29 PM
Why did RP keep looking to the side?

ClockwiseSpark
09-10-2007, 07:30 PM
Ok, I'm here to piss you off,... (Sorry, but someone has to do it :p )

FACT: Bill O'Reilly is a scumbag pontificating warmonger yellow journalist with less credibility that spray cheese.

FACT: We all already knew this.

FACT: Bitching about it on the boards will do nothing to help win this campaign.

I'm getting ready to deliver several hundred Ron Paul Event signs through downtown Seattle so Friday here will be a success. There are others working the phones to get friendly organizations out as well. We are also working the local media angle, although that hasn't taken off yet (we are still trying! Politely!) We put up about 100 more RP signs in an overnight last night. We have a table at one of the largest fairs in the state right now. We handed over 10,000 flyers out at hempfest last month. We have started door to door canvassing (Although we need to do more!) We have started organizing local GOP activists. (Although we need more of them also!) Don't get me wrong... EVEN WITH ALL THIS WE ARE WAY FAR BEHIND HERE!!! Where would you say you are right now?

Now, taking into account that bashing O'Reilly on this board does nothing to help in the real world, what have you done to get Ron Paul elected today?

(Please do not hate me, but it has to be asked, we are down to WEEKS, not seasons.)


I'll see you there. ;)

rp08rp
09-10-2007, 07:31 PM
Ron should have demanded more respect, he is RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT and here's a pundit schmo who never served not letting him talk.

Cindy
09-10-2007, 07:32 PM
O'Reilly completely DESTROYED Ron Paul in that interview, that was Ron Paul at his absolute WORST....this was by far the WORST publicity for Ron Paul EVER...all those 2 million viewers aren't going to go for Ron Paul...

I'm not trying to be against Ron Paul, I just call it like I see it...

Thats pretty much my unfortunate take on it. From the get go Paul was tense, in defencive mode and sour faced.

Ussually when welcomed to an interview Paul says with a smile, " Hello, Good to be with you."

This time, he just sat there with a tensed up scowl on his face. I knew it was going to go down hill from there.

What happened to Paul?

Kuldebar
09-10-2007, 07:33 PM
Ron should have demanded more respect, he is RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT and here's a pundit schmo who never served not letting him talk.

I understand the sentiment, but demanding "more respect" is like the worst way to get it. It's like slapping down the business card that says "U.S. Senator" down at the police station, it's somewhat ineffectual.

LibertyEagle
09-10-2007, 07:35 PM
That interview was not good. O'Rilley owned Paul.

That's not true. O'Reilly yelled over him and cut him off multiple times, but that does not equate with "owning". The mere fact that O'Reilly doesn't want to consider history or the reality that the CIA has said that Iran can't have nuclear weapons, even if they wanted them, for at least 10 years, is very telling. Did O'Reilly even mention the IAEA report that came out a few days ago. They advise against escalating this war mongering, as they are satisfied with Iran's cooperation on investigation of their nuclear program.

rp4prez
09-10-2007, 07:38 PM
That interview was not good. O'Rilley owned Paul.

Anyone with a half a brain will think otherwise IMO (hopefully I didn't insult you eek!) But the people who watch him support him. The people who have never seen the show who have half a brain will see the rudeness that BO is. The others that just don't have a clue about what goes on in this country and only listens to the MSM *might* have caught on that BO was being a jackass. Other than that I think over 50% of the people probably "got it" meaning that they saw right through Mr. "B"ody "O"der. ;)

themanhere
09-10-2007, 07:43 PM
Orielly does this with every guest except the ones that talk about lesbians. You have to understand most of the people who watch his show hate his effing guts!

RON DID GOOD!

nunaem
09-10-2007, 07:45 PM
It's sad to see so many people have fallen for the new notion that talking over and misconstruing your opponents words is equal to winning a debate, and that speaking the truth softly and humbly is equal to losing a debate.

rjl
09-10-2007, 07:47 PM
I just felt it was kind of a non - event. It wasnt as good a showcase of RP as teh debates were - I relaize he had no oppty to really get his entire thought out - as Billo would interrupt him when he knew he was gonna school him. I think he will shine where he can fully express his thoughts. Debates offer more for RP. 20 sec responses dont really help anyone communicate complex ideas. JHU tommorow - someone please post video or transcripts! I misse dteh fire in his belly but ya know it may have been smarter not to mirror Billo.

I agree. It was pretty much a non-event and I think it was meant to be a non-event. O'Reilly wasn't OVERLY inflammatory--as per his usual BS--and never gave RP a chance to get much out. Bottom line is that most people will see what they want.

The positive is that at least some of O'Reilly's brain-dead viewers will be curious and look up the good doctor. Anyone who was turned off probably would never have voted for RP in the first place. For anyone to have a knee-jerk reaction a la "O'Reilly owned RP" is just immature. That show has approximately 2 million viewers which is little more than a fart in the wind in the grand scheme of things. It's a long way to the primaries and we need to stay focused on the big picture.

Original_Intent
09-10-2007, 07:47 PM
I thought it went just fine. But I thought, well I am probably too much of a fan to be objective.

So I asked my wife what she thought - she is a fan also, just not a fanatic - and she said she thought it went well for Paul.

I agree that most BO fans were not wone over by this, but I certainly don't feel like RP was hurt and in fact I think all things considered, this was a great outcome.

Delaware
09-10-2007, 07:50 PM
I wish Ron Paul would show that Spark like he did back in that 1988 Morton Downey show, i wish he had of completely owned O'Reilly and disproved his arguments and outshouted him and called him a hypocrite for inviting him on and then not letting him speak.

The American people dont want a meek president.

Ron needs to get in some peoples face when he knows what they are trying to do to him.

stevedasbach
09-10-2007, 07:52 PM
This interview will be a big positive for the campaign. Viewers who liked what Ron had to say will visit his website -- some will become supporters, donors, volunteers. Those who hated Ron will continue to hate him. For everyone else, this interview will be utterly forgotten by the time the primaries roll around.

Ron Paul Fan
09-10-2007, 07:54 PM
He did have a strong presence at the debate last week. He doesn't need to be erratic like he was in '88 where he yelled at a guy to lose weight. Americans want a strong President, but they don't want some quack like Howard Dean. Look what happened to him when he displayed some emotion. I like the calm and reasoned Dr. Paul who fights opponents with facts and history instead of resorting to shouting and yelling. Dr. Paul should not have to resort to Bill O'Reilly's tactics to be considered a strong candidate.

fedup100
09-10-2007, 08:00 PM
The only reason the bloviator wanted Paul on his show was to trounce him unfairly.

Paul should have never agreed to the interview. O'reilly is scum and he did his masters biding. Paul was walked on and treated like dirt and now the bloviator will bloviate about it all the way to the elections.

The following video shows the real ace holeriley

http://openyourmindseye.blogspot.com/2006/04/deep-fried.html

Spirit of '76
09-10-2007, 08:04 PM
It was a shitty interview. Ron did not do well for himself tonight, but it was to be expected. He never should have gone on that show.

In any event, we can only console ourselves with the fact that people who watch that show because they like Bill O'Reilly never would have voted for Ron in the first place, since they're the type who like to get their rattling gourds pumped fulled of neocon propaganda 24/7.

The people who watch it because they hate Bill O'Reilly were quietly rooting for Ron, I'm sure. I doubt he won anyone over tonight, but c'est la vie.

smtwngrl
09-10-2007, 08:12 PM
People who think arguments are won by being an ass, controlling the discussion through loudness and interrupting think O'Reilly won. People who think logical arguments, decorum, perspective and educated big-picture thinking win arguments think the Dr. won. That's my observation so far.

I think you hit it on the head.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

That's what I heard when I heard O'Reilly make his absurb statement about not wanting a history lesson. Hopefully, there were other viewers who didn't think O'Reilly won by refusing to let Ron Paul answer his questions. If there were some who decided to find out more about RP after listening to the interview, then it wasn't a waste.

I wouldn't advise Ron to go out of the way to fit Bill into his busy schedule if Bill asks again, though. :p

rg123
09-10-2007, 08:17 PM
Personally I feel he should never go on Fox at all he is just setting himself up
and their is nothing to be gained by being on Fox. Billo gave Tiki Barber
more respect than he did a 20 yr congressman. What Ron should have said is if you are going to ask me a
question and you do not have the respect to hear my answer
then why have me waste my time for you to answer your own questions.
This interview is over and get up and leave. Tell him when you decide you want
to have a dialouge contact my campaign.

Dan Coble
09-10-2007, 08:18 PM
That interview was not good. O'Rilley owned Paul.

I tend to disagree....He didn't own Ron, he tried to BULLY him and NOT let him answer his insipid questions...Ron did as well as he could, but how much bullying can one take? .....Ron showed great restraint in not telling Bill what an assh*le he is.

Objective (Yeah, RIGHT) Journalism at it's worst.

TheEvilDetector
09-10-2007, 08:24 PM
People who think arguments are won by being an ass, controlling the discussion through loudness and interrupting think O'Reilly won. People who think logical arguments, decorum, perspective and educated big-picture thinking win arguments think the Dr. won. That's my observation so far. As for me, I'm in the Ron Paul kicked O'Reilly's closed-minded, fearmongering, fit-throwing ass camp.

I suppose the former can beat O'Reilly by screaming non stop "Bill you are wrong. I dont have time to explain to you why. But you are wrong" and just repeat.

PMatt
09-10-2007, 08:38 PM
I don't think Ron Paul did a good job to appeal to the average O'Reilly viewer. However, how many of those people are actually potential voters for Ron Paul.

I'm just a little upset because my dad knows that I support Paul and this is going to be the first time he sees him speak when they do the rerun at 10. Better prep myself for the ensuing debate that'll come from this.

SewrRatt
09-10-2007, 08:47 PM
I don't think Ron Paul did a good job to appeal to the average O'Reilly viewer. However, how many of those people are actually potential voters for Ron Paul.

I'm just a little upset because my dad knows that I support Paul and this is going to be the first time he sees him speak when they do the rerun at 10. Better prep myself for the ensuing debate that'll come from this.

If you have to prep yourself to defend your ideals from your own father I get the impression the two of you will be re-enacting the O'Reilly/Paul "debate". If so, he's not worth debating. You either get a fair chance to think and explain your positions, and not have to constantly refute bullshit propaganda, or he's a waste of time and should talk to your hand. The last person on earth allowed to argue with you on O'Reilly style terms is your own father. This is all, of course, hypothetical.

alicegardener
09-10-2007, 08:47 PM
I was gratified that the good doctor kept his cool under fire. A smartass or angry response to the unfair treatment would have been more entertaining for all but, for president, I would much prefer someone who is capable of maturity and grace when dealing with rough characters. The world is full of much worse personalities who have real power and who could respond to a hotheaded president with disasterous consequences. Ron Paul is sure of his facts and anchored by a lifetime of integrity. It showed tonight.

Paulitician
09-10-2007, 09:01 PM
I wish he performed today the way he did in 1988 with these types of questions

Check out this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anmlPvmd1Ew) 5:00 into it

He looked so calm and confident in himself then and beat the interviewer with cold hard facts. But what are you going to do? Bill O' is a rude, jackass propagandist.

Pauliana
09-10-2007, 09:10 PM
People know what to expect from BO. He's a blowhard who likes to hear himself bloviate. (but no one else) If that was the only BO interview you ever tuned in to, I might understand why you'd think RP got 0wnd, but that's BO's style and its up to the guests (who have the balls to go on the show) to deal with it the best they can and get a word in. RP did fantastic in my book and many viewers will hear what he's saying under BO's crap. All that was just the O'Reilly treatment, and why he gets a ton of viewers. RP dealt with it very well.

PMatt
09-10-2007, 09:12 PM
If you have to prep yourself to defend your ideals from your own father I get the impression the two of you will be re-enacting the O'Reilly/Paul "debate". If so, he's not worth debating. You either get a fair chance to think and explain your positions, and not have to constantly refute bullshit propaganda, or he's a waste of time and should talk to your hand. The last person on earth allowed to argue with you on O'Reilly style terms is your own father. This is all, of course, hypothetical.


It was kind of a joke, but what you said is basically true :(

dircha
09-10-2007, 09:16 PM
That interview was not good. O'Rilley owned Paul.

Paul certainly wasn't "owned". He was mediocre, sure, didn't seem on top of his game, sure, but he certainly wasn't "owned".

Don't jump on that bandwagon. You apparently haven't seen Bill own someone!

O'Reilly was very charitable to Dr. Paul; extremely. He let him get a great deal of speaking, in, actually.

Billy Baro7
09-10-2007, 09:24 PM
I don't understand what everyone thought was going to happen on O'Reilly??? You new this wasn't going to be pretty! Main thing is we were able to get Paul out there for everyone to see!!! Public exposer!!!! You knew O'Reilly was going to try and bash him!!! Even Paul knew this! Why do you think he looked uneasy the whole time! Best part was when O'Reilly got him fired up, he knew it was time to get him off the air before he made him look stupid!!!!
FUCK O'Reilly fucken Neocon, Spin this ass hole!!!!

Ron did fine, I was a little upset because of the way he looked! You knew he was on the defense and this wasn't the best spot for him!

Like I said Public Exposer and that is what we got!!! Pretty no, but we were able to land him on prime time!!!!

Billy

thomj76
09-10-2007, 09:25 PM
I sent this email to O'Reilly. After watching the segment for the 2nd time, in my opinion, I thought that Ron Paul did better than the fist time watching it. Of course we had some serious interference in the feed. The sound got way off track.

Good Evening, Mr. O'Reilly:

Thank you for having Ron Paul on the show. Hopefully, there can be another time where both of you could intelligently discuss some more of the issues that face our country. I do have one complaint that I am compelled to earnestly point out. When you replied "That we don't need a history lesson", in the following time before the debate moved forward again, Ron Paul could have finished putting forth provable facts.

As the son of a teacher, and as someone who has been called upon to teach certain subjects as well, it is detrimental to the process of communication to interrupt, and waste more time than it would have taken to allow the other person to finish their thought. I would also have to differ with you in regard to 'We don't need a history lesson'. It has become painfully obvious to me that we do indeed need a history lesson lest we continue to repeat past mistakes.

Thank you very much for inviting Ron Paul on, I yearn for the day that there can be more positive issues to discuss.

freedomsoundmoney
09-10-2007, 09:38 PM
At the beginning, bill gave Ron some good time to speak and he made some really excellent points and strongly supported his position. Funny how bill didn't even want to touch what Ron said and did a cop out "well that may or may not be true..thats a debatable issue.." and then from there on out started into more of an attack mode cutting ron off multiple times, talking over his answers so he could be heard and shit like that.

after Bill said "I don't, we don't need a history lesson..."ron says back "but you have to understand..." once again trying to explain his position (which is the point of an interview right?) bill quickly talks over Ron and "i do understand the region but be don't have time to do the history lesson.." i was expecting Ron to say "no bill, i don't think you do!" but he probably didn't cause its obvious what bills response would have been to that. ron did fine though.

Kregener
09-10-2007, 09:40 PM
If you expected Ron to be ANYTHING other than "on the defensive", then you were simply not looking at the real world.

Cliff
09-10-2007, 09:46 PM
O'Reilly completely DESTROYED Ron Paul in that interview, that was Ron Paul at his absolute WORST....this was by far the WORST publicity for Ron Paul EVER...all those 2 million viewers aren't going to go for Ron Paul...

I'm not trying to be against Ron Paul, I just call it like I see it...

You exaggerate much?

JaylieWoW
09-10-2007, 09:46 PM
For the BO (I like how that could easily be misconstrued as body odor), viewer who perhaps saw Ron Paul for the first time, and given they are likely BO fans, then yes, I'd say THOSE people think he was owned. And, just like it is easy for us, who understand the HISTORY behind Ron Paul's decisions, I'll guarantee you the BO fans easily overlook BOs talking over Ron Paul and not allowing him to answer.

However, I'd be willing to bet at least a few of BOs less committed viewers will be looking him up. Heck maybe even some of the more committed viewers will look him up and who knows WHAT might happen.

So, I have to agree with the 100+ posters. This wasn't a win or lose at all, it was EXPOSURE and given the BLATANT hostility of the person doing the questioning, I'd say he did a whole heck of a lot better than a few contributors to this forum would have. (Grrrr.... but a nice one, confrontation isn't my specialty).

In any case, you have to consider, what type of people saw this and how many of those are open to the idea of freedom (and likely against the Iraq war).

Pete Kay
09-10-2007, 09:48 PM
I think some of you are in a state of denial here. I have supported Ron Paul since the first Republican debates and I donate to his campaign every month, but it was clear to anyone that Ron Paul lost the argument. And that's exactly what Bill O'Reilly does - he starts arguments. And Bill even set up huge softballs for Ron Paul to hit and he completely missed them. Bill's badgering about why Dr. Paul isn't afraid of Iran was a perfect exmaple. Dr. Paul should have answered, "Of course I'm not afraid of this 3rd world nation. They aren't a threat to America. We are the most powerful nation in the world!" That's the kind of answers he needed to give in this format. O'Reilly Factor viewers aren't deep thinkers. Simple answers that appeal to American's sense of patriotism is what he should have been prepared to give. Know your audience.

Bison
09-10-2007, 09:51 PM
Its the same story. BO wants a simple answer. But RP's answers need to be set up with some history or you wont get the context of what he is talking about. So BO accuses of him of not answering the question.

Salamando
09-10-2007, 09:54 PM
Has this gone on youtube yet?

rp4prez
09-10-2007, 09:56 PM
I think some of you are in a state of denial here. I have supported Ron Paul since the first Republican debates and I donate to his campaign every month, but it was clear to anyone that Ron Paul lost the argument. And that's exactly what Bill O'Reilly does - he starts arguments. And Bill even set up huge softballs for Ron Paul to hit and he completely missed them. Bill's badgering about why Dr. Paul isn't afraid of Iran was a perfect exmaple. Dr. Paul should have answered, "Of course I'm not afraid of this 3rd world nation. They aren't a threat to America. We are the most powerful nation in the world!" That's the kind of answers he needed to give in this format. O'Reilly Factor viewers aren't deep thinkers. Simple answers that appeal to American's sense of patriotism is what he should have been prepared to give. Know your audience.

I agree with you and that's what I think RP's only real weakness is. The short answers like you point out that hit a home run.

However, IMO I think this interview was a good learning lesson for RP because now his team can go back and look at it and prepare for next time someone from Faux acts like this. He'll cream them then!

I just wonder if they would have let it go on if BO didn't keep cutting him off and make it look like he "won".. wonder what would of happened if RP was really kick'n his ass like we all know he can.

Hm.. maybe an idea for RP is to ask all these morons to a real debate? I bet you money they would never accpet! haha. ;)

PMatt
09-10-2007, 09:57 PM
Its the same story. BO wants a simple answer. But RP's answers need to be set up with some history or you wont get the context of what he is talking about. So BO accuses of him of not answering the question.

I pointed this out in another thread. Ron Paul needs a little bit of time to explain his position and why it is the right path to take. The other side is just "Take them out first" or "Fight them over there."

stones88
09-10-2007, 10:11 PM
Bill wouldn't give Ron the time of day. Dude was as combative as he could be. It's clear the GOP establishment and its collective assholes with megaphones feel Ron is a threat. Ron probably should polish up his stance on Iran - articulate better. He seemed somewhat agitated, his eyes darted a bit much.

Ron just needs to realize when he's playing an away game or stepping into enemy territory. A little confidence and composure next time.

You can always count on substance and integrity though.

freedomsoundmoney
09-10-2007, 10:17 PM
Has this gone on youtube yet?

yes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Orl17ozAU

Slugg
09-10-2007, 10:17 PM
I think some of you are in a state of denial here. I have supported Ron Paul since the first Republican debates and I donate to his campaign every month, but it was clear to anyone that Ron Paul lost the argument. And that's exactly what Bill O'Reilly does - he starts arguments. And Bill even set up huge softballs for Ron Paul to hit and he completely missed them. Bill's badgering about why Dr. Paul isn't afraid of Iran was a perfect exmaple. Dr. Paul should have answered, "Of course I'm not afraid of this 3rd world nation. They aren't a threat to America. We are the most powerful nation in the world!" That's the kind of answers he needed to give in this format. O'Reilly Factor viewers aren't deep thinkers. Simple answers that appeal to American's sense of patriotism is what he should have been prepared to give. Know your audience.

It wasn't bad. You can't 'beat' O'rielly at his own game on his own show. The few that do, are made to look like crazy people. If Ron would have been more forceful or tried to talk over Bill. Bill would have turned on him and it would have been really bad. This is no different than the first spat with Shawn Hannity. Let's see what happens the next time Ron is on.

skipdisk
09-10-2007, 10:25 PM
I can go on a show and upset people also like he does..... Simple, Don't let them speak and keep changing the questions as he does.. Dr. Ron Pauls' supporter he did loose any. How many times has he been on fox and kicked their asses? Dr. Ron Paul was just another of yea put him on, I will not let him speak and degrade myself some more i will have to say. And he did this with the wrong person I have to say. We all know Bill is like this. I just wish he would do this to other candidates to see how they do under pressure. Trust me when I say the average American would try to keep calm, But when you hide behind a camera and not in person shows the weekness of that person.. Colbert should go back on his show and rip Bill a new . Well you get the point.......

rockfree33
09-10-2007, 10:25 PM
A large portion of BO's audience are probably still supporting the war and think everything is going lovely in Iraq. If these people still can't be convinced that we need to leave Iraq immediately then I'm afraid they are a lost cause. At least this interview gives Dr. Paul some name recognition that way when we come out on top they can't say they never heard of us :)

speciallyblend
09-10-2007, 10:55 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=17284

Duckman
09-11-2007, 07:20 AM
I can't believe how many people thought this went badly for Ron Paul. This interview went about as well as it could possibly go for someone who doesnt' agree with OReilly on his show, and Ron Paul got a counterpoint out there to the idea that we have to go after Iran at all costs because they are "scary." Plus OReilly's comment that we "dont need a history lesson" reeks of ignorance, and I think the audience will see that.

I think our ranks will swell because of this interview.

glts
09-11-2007, 07:37 AM
People who think arguments are won by being an ass, controlling the discussion through loudness and interrupting think O'Reilly won. People who think logical arguments, decorum, perspective and educated big-picture thinking win arguments think the Dr. won. That's my observation so far. As for me, I'm in the Ron Paul kicked O'Reilly's closed-minded, fearmongering, fit-throwing ass camp.

I agree! Ron Paul did great! Just because O'Reilly wouldn't let Paul respond entirely to a question DOESN'T make O'Reilly the winner. It just showed he only wanted Ron Paul on to put him down. People that watch O'Reilly propably would never vote for Ron Paul anyway. After all who in their right mind would watch him night after night and not see the same old crap. If he interviews someone he agrees with he lets them talk if he interviews someone he doesn't agree with he doesn't let them speak and attacks.

undergroundrr
09-11-2007, 07:42 AM
I too was frustrated after watching the youtube. But this subsided quickly, because O'Reilly truly tripped himself up. He had a Giuliani moment -

Remember the Giuliani debate confrontation? Remember how Paul looked a little awkward and agitated and bumbly there? Remember how Giuliani got all the applause? Who won? Paul won, decisively, and ended up with an incredible surge of support.

There is desperation by neocons not to allow historical context into the argument. It was a tough moment for O'Reilly when Paul started recounting US Middle East involvement and the blowback from it. If O'Reilly had let Paul go on, coming up with an effective response would have been very difficult. Instead O'Reilly conceded with the "We don't need a history lesson" interruption. This concession strengthens Paul and won't be forgotten.

kylejack
09-11-2007, 10:39 AM
On the positive side, that's the worst situation Paul will ever be in.

The thing that people won't remember about this interview is that O'Reilly didn't want to hear the historical context of his reasoning. That's important. When historical context is ruled out of bounds or is considered unimportant, than it is hard to argue for any point. Even O'Reilly couldn't make a point without using historical knowledge and historical context. Tonight was an example of 'good for me but not for thee'.

(most) Americans want to hear the wisdom of the past. We don't need Paul to win every debate every time. We just need to get someone curious enough to think about his views. The hardest part of this battle will be getting people to actually stop and examine the issues. Remember: Paul is the message, not the man.
Ron should have hit him with the George Santayana quote about those who ignore history being doomed to repeat it.

ape
09-11-2007, 10:42 AM
O'reilly just got done calling RP a " cut & runner " on his radio program. :rolleyes:

Buffalo Bruce
09-11-2007, 10:43 AM
Bill O'Reilly uses bracketing to make his point. His program began with his talking point defining his position as it was spelled out on the TV screen to help drill in his message. Next, he tells his audience that he will be having a bunch of kooks on while showing a scantily clad woman being groped. Then he brings out Ron Paul. RP is then questioned and lectured about the same thing the audience was educated about at the beginning of his program. After the RP interview, the kooks are exhibited.

From now on, just the interview will be seen on video without the brackets. Re-watching the O'Reilly interview, I realized that RP did a pretty good job. He kept going back to his point that our foreign policy makes us less safe. BO's regular audience may have been exposed to a new idea despite BO's efforts to jerk RP around allowing only yes or no answers. At the end of the interview, BO cordially thanked RP for being his guest.

kylejack
09-11-2007, 10:49 AM
O'reilly just got done calling RP a " cut & runner " on his radio program. :rolleyes:

He cut and ran to England when our boys were in Vietnam.

JAHOGS
09-11-2007, 10:57 AM
I was on there asking him about the movie, which will cause more muslims to be terrorist. Jeff, Little Rock, AR

i was getting to my point and then all of a sudden BO went into his talking and waiting for me to say something, but for some reason my voice was not being heard on the radio. HMMMM.....

kickzman
09-11-2007, 10:58 AM
I recently turned my dad on to Ron Paul, ( He voted Bush 2000, Kerry 2004) it was hard b/c he has become disillusioned w/ our election process like most people, but after the last debate he definitely is thinking about voting Paul. Anyways we both watched O'reilly last night and he kept on telling me how Ron should've never accepted Bills "interview" invitation...

ARealConservative
09-11-2007, 11:00 AM
MSM can't allow history lessons.

"Who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present controls the past."

The OLD media controls the present and controls the past.

SewrRatt
09-11-2007, 11:00 AM
I was on there asking him about the movie, which will cause more muslims to be terrorist. Jeff, Little Rock, AR

i was getting to my point and then all of a sudden BO went into his talking and waiting for me to say something, but for some reason my voice was not being heard on the radio. HMMMM.....

Was this yesterday? I think I heard you. The ass claimed you passed out from logic when you"quit" talking, right? What a dick.

JAHOGS
09-11-2007, 11:01 AM
Was this yesterday? I think I heard you. The ass claimed you passed out from logic when you"quit" talking, right? What a dick.

No this was just a little while ago. But I did hear yesterday what you are talking about.

It's funny how he talks but want let you make your statement once he knows where the topic of the call is going.

Shink
09-11-2007, 11:10 AM
I don't see how anyone can say 'Bill DESTROYED Ron' when it wasn't even an ACTUAL DEBATE. All Bill did was talk over Ron the whole time and with such a very small amount of time dedicated to it there was never any hope for Ron to get through his reasoning anyway. "We don't need a history lesson." AKA: "We don't need you fleshing out your stance and making everyone understand why you're right and I'm a fucking asshole." That's all that happened. Totally predictable.

Wilkero
09-11-2007, 11:28 AM
Last night was not RP's best interview, however I don't think that anyone (including Dr. Paul) could have done any better. O'Reilly would not let him finish answering a question before interrupting with a long diatribe consisting of numerous unsupported assumptions and ending with a new question. Dr. Paul was at a significant disadvantage from the beginning.

Given all of that, it was still probably a good idea to do the show. Increased name recognition will only help at this point. The more people exposed to RP's candidacy, the better.

SeanEdwards
09-11-2007, 11:42 AM
It was a terrible interview. Pure hatchet job by faux news.

Ron should never have graced that stooges show with his presence.

Fuck fox, and fuck o'lielly.

kylejack
09-11-2007, 11:49 AM
Last night was not RP's best interview, however I don't think that anyone (including Dr. Paul) could have done any better. O'Reilly would not let him finish answering a question before interrupting with a long diatribe consisting of numerous unsupported assumptions and ending with a new question. Dr. Paul was at a significant disadvantage from the beginning.

Given all of that, it was still probably a good idea to do the show. Increased name recognition will only help at this point. The more people exposed to RP's candidacy, the better.

Bingo bango. Even the worst interview is better than no interview, because, what's our biggest challenge? All together now, name recognition.

undergroundrr
09-11-2007, 12:15 PM
Mark my words. "We don't need a history lesson" is the only quote anybody will remember from that exchange.

Another of my favorite moments was when Paul stated that the CIA says it will be 10 years before Iran has nuclear capability. O'Reilly interrupted him to point out that "everybody" says it will be five and went on to the next non-question.

People, you need to learn from the Giuliani reaction! Paul benefits from these difficult, high-tension moments. We're talking about the man who wants to open diplomacy with Ahmadinejad. Some of you are saying he shouldn't have spent 10 minutes with O'Reilly? He successfully evaded all of the "Do you still beat your wife" questions and hammered the message. He majorly discredited one of the keystone neocons last night and deserves passionate applause.

Spread far and wide the new mission statement of neoconservatism - "We don't need a history lesson!" It's already flying all over the internet.

MsDoodahs
09-11-2007, 12:22 PM
I've been thinking about the ORiley interview and I realized that the hardcore ORiley fan is a blathering fool and will never be swayed from blindly cheering for whatever load of crap comes out of BOs mouth. These people are pretty much lost causes, they're Fredheads and Rudyfans. :rolleyes:

But there is a whole NOTHER group of viewers.

They watch BO because they hate him, and all that he stands for. Those people know BO for what he is - but they may NOT have known much at all about Dr. Paul.

After last night, they may have enough info that it sends them on a search for info about the good doc...

:)

rp4prez
09-11-2007, 01:11 PM
"We don't need a history lesson." AKA: "We don't need you fleshing out your stance and making everyone understand why you're right and I'm a fucking asshole." That's all that happened. Totally predictable.

I laughed out loud reading this... A long long time ago in the same "dreamland" BO is in I actually used to watch his show every night. Then (being a smart person) I actually realized and saw what BO was actually doing. Your quote is exactly what he does every single time to all his guesses that don't agree with him. He is a fucking asshole and that's exactly why I stopped watching! I just feel so proud of myself for figuring it out on my own! :) Yay us!

Liberty
09-11-2007, 01:12 PM
Please don't be bamboozled by O'Reilly and Fox. I'm sure they're pleased that some of you think Bill trounced Ron, which he didn't. Bill doesn't care to learn from mistakes our government has made in the past. How naive! There's a larger agenda here and there's no place for the common sense offered by Ron Paul. Why is there a 15 million dollar pro-war ad campaign going on right now?

Syren123
09-11-2007, 01:22 PM
I guess I'll have to watch it again, didn't notice that. I noticed he didn't put up much of a fight to Orly's false statements, but its sort of futile to debate that moron.

Exactly. There is no winning on that show when they set you up for attack, which is what people tune in for. Bill O'Reilly is the Jerry Springer of news. Dr Paul doesn't do that. If he sounded weak, it's because he was being pelted with incomprehensible shouting, and if he looked tired, well...don't you think they did that on purpose? Lighting is everything. And maybe he was tired. It happens when you work long days.

wgadget
09-11-2007, 01:24 PM
Yeah, those commercials are disgusting. Seems like they started running right after Labor Day.

Also, it's quite sickening to hear all these callers to radio talk shows who ooh and ahh and flatter these hosts to the point of making me want to puke. CAN'T THEY SEE THAT ALL THESE GUYS DO IS DIVIDE, DIVIDE, DIVIDE, and 90% of their speech is "those horrible Democrats" ad infinitum? Gag me. Then to add insult to injury, they spout on about the Fairness Doctrine, just making these people really think they're on the right side of things.

That said, I've never seen any politician that can unite people like Dr. Ron Paul. Wake up, people!

smtwngrl
09-12-2007, 03:39 PM
Here's the email I sent to O'Reilly:

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

For a person who is opinionated about foreign policy, your dislike of
history is inexcusable.

Fortunately, Dr. Paul found a better forum for intelligent discussion
yesterday at John Hopkins University's School of Advanced International
Studies.

Johnnybags
09-12-2007, 03:43 PM
Bill, I like the new segment Patriots and Pinheads, and since you said perception becomes reality, I expect to see you in the pinhead segment soon.