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itsthepathocrats
12-13-2008, 02:45 PM
Please drop by your local school and drop off food, a dignity bag, a toy or some clothes (see article call-to-action). Things are that bad.


"Mrs. K, I have nothing to barter." "Mrs. K, I don't have lunch money"
by bkamr
Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 04:48:02 PM PST
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/12/19482/679/290/651601

The American Public School system is the the only institution where there is compulsory attendance for a huge percentage of Americans, everyday. And, those young Americans who pass through our doors bring with them a diverse and immediate picture of the state of America, because in their eyes and with their stories, we see and hear about their families, hopes, dreams and fears.

If you want to know how a community is really doing, you don't have to wait for unemployment statistics. Just ask a community teacher. We have been hearing how children are moving around and moving in with Grandparents. We began scrambling in October to to meet the needs of initially just a few kids who suddenly started to show up dirty and rumpled. We've arranged for them to use the locker rooms in the morning to get cleaned up.

We've been seeing signs like these that Main Street's kids and families are REALLY hurting for a few months, even in the pretty well-off, suburban community we live in.

BUT, today took the cake for me. It was a BIG wake-up call, and I'm still crying. I have a story and Call for Action after the fold.



* bkamr's diary :: ::
*

Today, I inadvertently made 4 of my precious students cry. There is NOTHING worse for a teacher than to see one of your ducklings tear up. I didn't mean too. I was actually trying to be a good teacher. I teach in a Middle School. We have a terrific school with a fine core curriculum, and we even have additional, special classes for the Arts and Music including chorus, band, and strings.

We also offer special, additional classes in specific core subject areas, and that's where I fit in:

For 8th graders who struggle in core social studies classes, I offer an additional class in government where I get to do LOTS of hands on things like role plays, debates, projects, spirited discussions, videos ... I wear crowns and patriot hats, use puppets, and throw kids in jail under their desks for sedition! I also have the opportunity to do one-on-one tutoring with extra chances on tests to ensure mastery in key principles for future voters.

For 7th graders, physics is a bear of a content area, and I offer a focused course on the physics of energy! (We actually met this year and decided that this would be the key science area for this generation's future, so while I am also helping students with other science skills ... the focus is energy. And, I like to think we are on the cutting edge with the program) My 7th graders also have classroom pets and plants they care for to demonstrate how energy transfers through the web of life. I teach with LOTS of toys to demonstrate energy transfer. And since they always pass the final, they get rewarded with the video "An Inconvenient Truth."

For my 6th graders, reading non-fiction and critical thinking are their top challenges, so I teach the engaging social studies subjects of anthropology, archeology, and economics (they LOVE it) to motivate them to read. We do hands on digs, study diverse cultures, and learn how business works with Junior Achievement. They voted to use their profits to give a gift of chicks and bees to Heifer International, this year.

I try to make each of my classes an adventure in learning. And even though my classes are filled with students who often struggle in their core subjects, I regularly see them come alive as they not only master the content, but also develop self-directed learning skills that will help them succeed in other classes, as well.

I'm sharing all this, not to toot my horn, but so you will know 4 things upfront:

1. We are just a mid-performing (test-wise) suburban school in Anywhere, KY.

2. I'm really not unusual. Our school is filled with teachers doing the same kinds of thing, day after day.

3. THIS is the "terrible school system" you hear about in the papers. Um hmm.

4. I am NOT the kind of teacher who regularly makes kids cry!

Soooo, I was just doing my regular job, today. That's where things fell apart thanks to the real pain of our Main Street meltdown hitting real children.

For my 8th graders, some of my kids didn't get an 80% (mastery) on the Forms of Government test. As per my usual routine, I gave up my lunch and offered a LUNCH BUNCH study time and test re-take opportunity. One student arrived early sans lunch. I was busy gathering up lab equipment off tables from my 7th grade science class, so I wasn't looking at my early student as I said, "Hey, go on and get your lunch. You can eat while we do our Rapid Study Technique before the re-take."

I could feel the silence and non-movement of my student. So, I turned and looked. There were tears on the table beneath his bowed head. I pulled up a chair and asked, "Family or friends." Silence. That meant it was a family issue. Probing gently, I got, "Mrs K., both my Mom and Dad got laid off and our house ... our house. I was too worried to ask for a check for lunch money, and I'm too embarrassed to ask for the P&J lunch." When he said "our house," it came out like a moan.

I was immediately heart-broken. Other students were beginning to arrive in my classroom, so I covertly passed him a $10 bill from my pocket and loudly said - "Hurry up, now. Thanks so much for thinking about me! Are you sure can you carry 2 lunches back for the both of us?" He got fed and got an A on the test.

I called his Mom, and they will be filling out the Free Lunch form that I'm mailing to her. Since the form won't get through processing for a week or so, I put $15 in his lunch account to cover, next week, and I added the family to our "Holiday Feast Food Drive" list.

His parents were laid off from Citicorp and DHL. They live in our neighborhood of 200K homes. They are losing their home. Neither has health insurance anymore, and few prospects. They were an upper middle class family who just fell into poverty. Their son is grieving his home, is scared, hungry and crying.

In my 6th grade class, we are learning about different types of economies. One fun, active learning experiences I have done for years is Barter Day! We have trading rules that call for students to bring $5-10 dollars worth of USED toys, Gameboy games, videos or books etc. to school to trade in a barter market. In previous years, this has NEVER been an issue. No child in OUR school didn't have a book, a Matchbox car and video or used Gameboy to bring in! Plus, we do a regular size candy bar trade that I hold for the last day before the holiday for them to enjoy while we watch and analyze our "treat video" Indiana Jones vs. "real" archeologists. The kids have great fun comparing and contrasting Hollywood vs reality and analyzing the Thugee's culture.

For the first time, I had 3 children come to me before our Barter Day class -- in tears! Two of them shared that their parents had told them that their old toys were being wrapped up and given to younger siblings or cousins for Christmas and one told me that ALL his toys were on Ebay! I wiped away tears, gave big hugs, and told them not to worry.

Fortunately, I have a 12 year-old son, and we only live a mile from the school. So, I pulled my son out of class for a 2 minute conference to ask him if I could buy some of his old things in the basement. He has literally hundreds of little cars, piles of books he's already read, and I had my own stash of stocking stuffers. (Special note about my little, big guy, he refused to take money and asked to just make it a gift of his things.)

Back I rushed with 10 Barter Bags! Because, I suspected that if 3 came to me, there might be more who were suffering in silence. I was sadly right. I handed out 2 additional bags for children who had nothing to barter. It turned out to be a happy ending; Barter Day was a resounding success, this year.

BUT, I learned my lesson, and I hope you will hear my message. THINGS ARE WORSE than the traditional media is reporting. As a teacher in what was a previously average, Middle Class school, I am seeing children who are hurting and an in need.

And, I inadvertently made them cry, today. LIFE is DRASTICALLY NOT the SAME!

Here is my Call to Action: -- Even if you think "This is NOT needed in MY Middle Class School! Sadly, it very might be very, very needed.

1. Food Drives at your schools -- DO IT! If you can afford to do it, please remember to send food in with your kids. We are not just "making bags of food for some food bank, somewhere." We know the families of kids on Free and Reduced Lunch and we know that they may not get anything during the holidays. Many schools and teachers are quietly delivering those bags of food to those families. We need your help.

2. Just for You (Dignity) Bags -- Make them. Kids are showing up smelly. That is HORRIBLE for Middle Schoolers and High Schoolers. Just drop off a bag of soap, toothbrush toothpaste, small shampoo and deoderant. Just drop off a bag at your school's front desk for "someone who might need it."

3. A TOY! or Clothes! -- Go to a used clothing store and deliver a few Ambercrombie shirts or look in your closets for extra outer wear. We are giving out jackets and hats and mittens like you wouldn't believe.

It is NOT just giving as usual, folks. It IS a time like we have never known in our lifetimes. YES, good used, washed things are welcome and give them to your local MIDDLE CLASS schools. We will find kids to help with them.

And, thanks for reading this rant. Just writing the day out helped a little.

Deborah K
12-13-2008, 03:17 PM
OMG!! I'm tearing up.

heavenlyboy34
12-13-2008, 03:21 PM
This is sad. :(

blocks
12-13-2008, 03:22 PM
Great post!

DONATE people! Volunteer if you have the time. What is a small amount to us can make a huge difference to family somewhere out there.

tremendoustie
12-13-2008, 03:40 PM
Don't think I missed the main point of this, because I didn't, it's very sad, and we need to help.

That said, they get rewarded with a propaganda piece like Inconvenient Truth!?

If you're a parent, and you're not homeschooling, you probably should be.

angelatc
12-13-2008, 03:44 PM
It's from the Daily Kos. THey're the grasshoppers, we're the ants. My heart doesn't bleed for liberals, even if they're kids.


And since they always pass the final, they get rewarded with the video "An Inconvenient Truth."

Yawn.

The teachers make 3 x's what I do. Let them feed the kids, since they feed off of them.

tremendoustie
12-13-2008, 03:49 PM
It's from the Daily Kos. THey're the grasshoppers, we're the ants. My heart doesn't bleed for liberals, even if they're kids.


I strongly believe we should be helping people who need it. The bleeding heart bit isn't what's wrong, it's the forcibly making your neighbor pay for it part that's wrong.

Andrew Ryan
12-13-2008, 03:53 PM
Hmmm this is tugging at my heart strings.

blocks
12-13-2008, 03:55 PM
It's from the Daily Kos. THey're the grasshoppers, we're the ants. My heart doesn't bleed for liberals, even if they're kids.

So pretty much you couldn't give a shit about a starving kid unless he was a Ron Paul supporter?

AutoDas
12-13-2008, 03:57 PM
So pretty much you couldn't give a shit about a starving kid unless he was a Ron Paul supporter?

These kids aren't starving. Go to Africa and you'll see starving children. I'm just pissed off at the kids parents. How can they not be prepared to be laid off and with a kid?

angelatc
12-13-2008, 03:58 PM
I strongly believe we should be helping people who need it. The bleeding heart bit isn't what's wrong, it's the forcibly making your neighbor pay for it part that's wrong.

The underlying message here is that the government must take care of the kids because the parents can't. "Our school is filled with teachers doing the same thing..." Whatever. My school is filled with members of the community doing the same thing, but we think it is in bad taste to talk about our charitable efforts.

DHL just laid off their staffers a few weeks ago. I am hard pressed to believe those folks are already entirely out of money. You'd think they'd start missing mortgage payments before they quit buying food.

Look at the BS schedule! 7th graders struggling with physics? That's because they're 13 years old! Physics is at least a high school class, if not a college level course! (No problem - just teach it anyway.)

If the schools weren't sucking the taxpaying homeowners dry with their never ending list of needs, perhaps the system wouldn't be so hopeless.

angelatc
12-13-2008, 04:02 PM
So pretty much you couldn't give a shit about a starving kid unless he was a Ron Paul supporter?

I'd rather see families turning to churches, rather than the government, for help.

These kids aren't starving. If they are, it's because their parents are too lazy to fill out the one page "free lunch program" application.

I think this is a bullsh*t article, almost entirely fictional. And the person that wrote it is a drain on the system, not an asset to the community.

UtahApocalypse
12-13-2008, 04:52 PM
The underlying message here is that the government must take care of the kids because the parents can't. "Our school is filled with teachers doing the same thing..." Whatever. My school is filled with members of the community doing the same thing, but we think it is in bad taste to talk about our charitable efforts.

DHL just laid off their staffers a few weeks ago. I am hard pressed to believe those folks are already entirely out of money. You'd think they'd start missing mortgage payments before they quit buying food.

Look at the BS schedule! 7th graders struggling with physics? That's because they're 13 years old! Physics is at least a high school class, if not a college level course! (No problem - just teach it anyway.)

If the schools weren't sucking the taxpaying homeowners dry with their never ending list of needs, perhaps the system wouldn't be so hopeless.


This article, while touching is full of holes. Just a senstational article to drum up more suport for socialism.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
12-13-2008, 05:06 PM
This article, while touching is full of holes. Just a senstational article to drum up more suport for socialism.
bingo

I'm sorry, but when teary-eyed women and children get involved in politics, that's when shit really hits the fan.

THESE CHILDREN NEED NEW TOYS AND 200K HOMES, PLEASE HELP US, WAGGH

Cowlesy
12-13-2008, 05:33 PM
Crowns and Pirate Hats in 8th grade? PHYSICS in 7th grade? Junior Achievement and Econ in 6th grade?

Things have changed quite a bit since I was in grade school. We did Junior Achievement as Sophomores or Juniors I believe, and Physics was 10th grade and above.

I think the article is fake, but I do like the spirit of it. I don't believe in "sacrifice", but that doesn't mean I don't give a lot of items to charity. Picking the RIGHT charities is the most important part.

Stay local as much as possible so you avoid having your hard-earned donation eaten up by car-service, fundraising costs or admin fees. Physical goods probably go the furthest. When I get home for Christmas I'll be dropping off items at the Salvation Army, because I can be sure they go to lots of people who really need help in the local area.

I would hazard a guess that a great deal (not all) of internet messageboard users have not experienced abject poverty where putting food on the table or putting clean clothes on your kid is a daily concern. I hope I never end up in that situation but if I do someday I'd be eternally grateful for any help others can provide from their surpluses.

t0rnado
12-13-2008, 05:39 PM
I like reading fiction so I enjoyed reading this. I'm a junior in high school and this reminds me of something funny I witnessed the other day.

I was buying lunch at school and there was this kid in front of me who was wearing a $30 Hollister t-shirt. I saw him pull out a free lunch ticket from his pocket and give it to the lunch lady. At that point, I just started laughing. Kids can afford overpriced t-shirts just to appear rich, but they can't afford food.

As much as I don't want to make a sweeping statement, most of these kids are just parasites.

If people didn't have to pay 30% of their income at gun point to the government, they might be more charitable. Even if people did start donating, it would only condition this generation to think that they don't have to earn what they have.

Physics is 12th grade at my high school and economics isn't even offered.

Cowlesy
12-13-2008, 05:42 PM
I see your point t0rnado, but it is hard to say. It could have been a Holister shirt his 'rents picked up for him at Goodwill.

I know I've dropped off plenty of expensive clothes at Salvation Army in the past that must find their way to someone.

t0rnado
12-13-2008, 05:50 PM
I see your point t0rnado, but it is hard to say. It could have been a Holister shirt his 'rents picked up for him at Goodwill.

I know I've dropped off plenty of expensive clothes at Salvation Army in the past that must find their way to someone.

Yeah, but these kids carry themselves around in a way that's supposed to imply that they're above everyone else. This isn't just a few people, it's most of the school. I live in a middle class town in NJ and it's filled with people who worry more about their appearance than health or buying food.

I can't speak for the people in that town in Kentucky, but I'd be willing to bet that the kids who attend my school would rather spend money on clothes than on food, just to attempt to fit in.

cybloo
12-13-2008, 07:33 PM
Quite frankly, I am appalled at some members' reactions. The author is not saying the government needs to step in and force people to donate to people in need. Yes, she obviously teaches in a public school and yes, obviously many of you disagree with government schooling (as do I). However, this isn't about some socialistic government agenda, this is about what kids are going through because of their parents' mistakes.

I take this personally, because I was one of those kids.

I had the standard middle-class upbringing and was lucky enough to go to a private school pre-k through 5th grade. We moved to a nicer neighborhood at the end of my 5th grade year and I switched to the nearby public school. When we moved, it's obvious now that we lived beyond our means. My mother was obsessed with material goods (like the nicest furniture, etc) and my father didn't have much say. He worked in manufacturing and she collected disability. When he was laid off from his very nice manufacturing job, he had to go work at a shit place. In my 8th grade year, they filed for bankruptcy and by the end of my sophomore year, they filed for divorce.

My father sold the house and I moved into a tiny 2-bedroom apartment with my mother. Living on her disability and a small amount of child support, we had barely enough money to buy food for a week, let alone a month (my mother wasn't that great at spending money wisely). Add into the fact that my mother is an agoraphobic as well as a binge-eater, my sole meal was lunch at school -- if there was enough money; I couldn't count on food being at home. I often stayed in the bandroom during lunch because I didn't want to deal with sitting at a table, watching people eat. That year, I lost about 30 pounds. I got a job so that I could eat and oftentimes, I would steal leftover food at the end of the night and hide it so my mother couldn't find it.

I understand that my situation was not horrible in comparison to others. But I also understand how it felt to be constantly singled out because my clothes were old and worn or not "in-fashion" (because walking down the hall and getting called an 80s ****** or having someone shoving me from behind and pulling my hair hard just because it was long and frizzy was great fun). I don't like to talk about this and there are many details that I've left out because I don't want to have to deal with that emotional baggage at this moment, but I felt like I had to say something to those who responded so negatively.

Before you pass judgment, remember that just as I had no real choice over what my parents did, neither do other kids now. When we (my mother and I) got a bag of food from some random person on Christmas day, I just cried because I knew that at least I wasn't going to go hungry the next few days. And fuck... I'm crying right now.

So yeah, screw the government, it sucks. But don't say screw those kids just because they go to a public school. Especially now that more and more people are hurting for basic things like food.

The morale of an article like this, whether it's completely factual or not, is that if you have something you don't need that could help someone else or a few cans of food lying around your house, donate them to a trustworthy place where you know people who need them will get them. That's all. End of story. Times are going to get rougher and it isn't going to be our government who helps us -- it's going to be us helping each other in spite of the government.

That's all I got to say on this.

liberteebell
12-13-2008, 07:55 PM
These kids aren't starving. Go to Africa and you'll see starving children. I'm just pissed off at the kids parents. How can they not be prepared to be laid off and with a kid?

I know that generally, we in America aren't starving like kids in 3rd world countries. Nevertheless, being pissed at the kids' parents for "not being prepared"? You must be either very young, very naive, or both.

You can be all the prepared in the world and life will still toss you some curve balls that happen in the blink of an eye and that make all preparations go out the window. Been there, done that, didn't even get a tee shirt and I know plenty of others in the same boat, especially in this economy.

Note that the one kid didn't say that he didn't have lunch money, just that he didn't want to ask his parents under the circumstances.

Yeah, this is a "liberal" rant and some of it does sound a bit fictional but so what? Except for the "free" lunch, where does the teacher ask for a government handout? The teacher seems to be pointing out that everyone needs to look around and help out locally if they are able.

Sort of like this guy: http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/beach-lawyer-pays-childrens-coats-layaway

What could be wrong with that?

Dustancostine
12-13-2008, 07:59 PM
This article is pure fiction you can tell by the way it is written. Know when you trying to be sold something.

liberteebell
12-13-2008, 08:02 PM
Quite frankly, I am appalled at some members' reactions. The author is not saying the government needs to step in and force people to donate to people in need. Yes, she obviously teaches in a public school and yes, obviously many of you disagree with government schooling (as do I). However, this isn't about some socialistic government agenda, this is about what kids are going through because of their parents' mistakes.

I take this personally, because I was one of those kids.

I had the standard middle-class upbringing and was lucky enough to go to a private school pre-k through 5th grade. We moved to a nicer neighborhood at the end of my 5th grade year and I switched to the nearby public school. When we moved, it's obvious now that we lived beyond our means. My mother was obsessed with material goods (like the nicest furniture, etc) and my father didn't have much say. He worked in manufacturing and she collected disability. When he was laid off from his very nice manufacturing job, he had to go work at a shit place. In my 8th grade year, they filed for bankruptcy and by the end of my sophomore year, they filed for divorce.

My father sold the house and I moved into a tiny 2-bedroom apartment with my mother. Living on her disability and a small amount of child support, we had barely enough money to buy food for a week, let alone a month (my mother wasn't that great at spending money wisely). Add into the fact that my mother is an agoraphobic as well as a binge-eater, my sole meal was lunch at school -- if there was enough money; I couldn't count on food being at home. I often stayed in the bandroom during lunch because I didn't want to deal with sitting at a table, watching people eat. That year, I lost about 30 pounds. I got a job so that I could eat and oftentimes, I would steal leftover food at the end of the night and hide it so my mother couldn't find it.

I understand that my situation was not horrible in comparison to others. But I also understand how it felt to be constantly singled out because my clothes were old and worn or not "in-fashion" (because walking down the hall and getting called an 80s ****** or having someone shoving me from behind and pulling my hair hard just because it was long and frizzy was great fun). I don't like to talk about this and there are many details that I've left out because I don't want to have to deal with that emotional baggage at this moment, but I felt like I had to say something to those who responded so negatively.

Before you pass judgment, remember that just as I had no real choice over what my parents did, neither do other kids now. When we (my mother and I) got a bag of food from some random person on Christmas day, I just cried because I knew that at least I wasn't going to go hungry the next few days. And fuck... I'm crying right now.

So yeah, screw the government, it sucks. But don't say screw those kids just because they go to a public school. Especially now that more and more people are hurting for basic things like food.

The morale of an article like this, whether it's completely factual or not, is that if you have something you don't need that could help someone else or a few cans of food lying around your house, donate them to a trustworthy place where you know people who need them will get them. That's all. End of story. Times are going to get rougher and it isn't going to be our government who helps us -- it's going to be us helping each other in spite of the government.

That's all I got to say on this.

Wow, great post, even as sad as it is. And I hope everyone reads it!! I too am appalled at the callousness of some of the remarks here.

Agent CSL
12-13-2008, 08:09 PM
The teachers make 3 x's what I do. Let them feed the kids, since they feed off of them.
Really. I have nothing but disdain for most teachers. Well, at least in the Seattle area. They are closing schools and cutting programs because "teachers need the pay." It's a big mess.

tremendoustie
12-13-2008, 08:10 PM
Quite frankly, I am appalled at some members' reactions. The author is not saying the government needs to step in and force people to donate to people in need. Yes, she obviously teaches in a public school and yes, obviously many of you disagree with government schooling (as do I). However, this isn't about some socialistic government agenda, this is about what kids are going through because of their parents' mistakes.

I take this personally, because I was one of those kids.

I had the standard middle-class upbringing and was lucky enough to go to a private school pre-k through 5th grade. We moved to a nicer neighborhood at the end of my 5th grade year and I switched to the nearby public school. When we moved, it's obvious now that we lived beyond our means. My mother was obsessed with material goods (like the nicest furniture, etc) and my father didn't have much say. He worked in manufacturing and she collected disability. When he was laid off from his very nice manufacturing job, he had to go work at a shit place. In my 8th grade year, they filed for bankruptcy and by the end of my sophomore year, they filed for divorce.

My father sold the house and I moved into a tiny 2-bedroom apartment with my mother. Living on her disability and a small amount of child support, we had barely enough money to buy food for a week, let alone a month (my mother wasn't that great at spending money wisely). Add into the fact that my mother is an agoraphobic as well as a binge-eater, my sole meal was lunch at school -- if there was enough money; I couldn't count on food being at home. I often stayed in the bandroom during lunch because I didn't want to deal with sitting at a table, watching people eat. That year, I lost about 30 pounds. I got a job so that I could eat and oftentimes, I would steal leftover food at the end of the night and hide it so my mother couldn't find it.

I understand that my situation was not horrible in comparison to others. But I also understand how it felt to be constantly singled out because my clothes were old and worn or not "in-fashion" (because walking down the hall and getting called an 80s ****** or having someone shoving me from behind and pulling my hair hard just because it was long and frizzy was great fun). I don't like to talk about this and there are many details that I've left out because I don't want to have to deal with that emotional baggage at this moment, but I felt like I had to say something to those who responded so negatively.

Before you pass judgment, remember that just as I had no real choice over what my parents did, neither do other kids now. When we (my mother and I) got a bag of food from some random person on Christmas day, I just cried because I knew that at least I wasn't going to go hungry the next few days. And fuck... I'm crying right now.

So yeah, screw the government, it sucks. But don't say screw those kids just because they go to a public school. Especially now that more and more people are hurting for basic things like food.

The morale of an article like this, whether it's completely factual or not, is that if you have something you don't need that could help someone else or a few cans of food lying around your house, donate them to a trustworthy place where you know people who need them will get them. That's all. End of story. Times are going to get rougher and it isn't going to be our government who helps us -- it's going to be us helping each other in spite of the government.

That's all I got to say on this.

+1

Ignorant statists think that libertarianism is selfishness. Let's not make it true.

tremendoustie
12-13-2008, 08:11 PM
bingo

I'm sorry, but when teary-eyed women and children get involved in politics, that's when shit really hits the fan.

THESE CHILDREN NEED NEW TOYS AND 200K HOMES, PLEASE HELP US, WAGGH

It's NOT POLITICS, it's CHARITY. BIG difference.

tremendoustie
12-13-2008, 08:13 PM
These kids aren't starving. Go to Africa and you'll see starving children. I'm just pissed off at the kids parents. How can they not be prepared to be laid off and with a kid?

So, you'll be helping out the kids in Africa then, is that what you're saying?

Scribbler de Stebbing
12-13-2008, 08:54 PM
I'll give some more to the private charity shelter and charity food shelf and Toys For Tots, but can I ask why these kids are showing up dirty?

cybloo
12-13-2008, 09:01 PM
I'll give some more to the private charity shelter and charity food shelf and Toys For Tots, but can I ask why these kids are showing up dirty?

Sometimes it's a choice between (extraneous) things such as electricity/water, or gas in your car so you can get to work and enough money to buy food to get some nutrition into your kids and maybe you. Thank god that choice never had to happen to my family (more like, which ones will we risk by paying the bill late) but I've heard of some instances with others where that choice had to be made.

Some opt for the belly over dirt on the face and a little bit of smell.

t0rnado
12-13-2008, 09:05 PM
I checked out this lady's other blog posts. All of them are begging for donations and all of her posts take aim at people's emotions. Here's one:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/9/165124/222/0/625449

cybloo
12-13-2008, 09:23 PM
Ignorant statists think that libertarianism is selfishness. Let's not make it true.

One big part of the free market has to do with reputations -- such as, if you know a company has a bad reputation for something like treating their employees badly or making low-quality products, you're less likely to buy from that company. I was kind of musing about libertarianism, charity and this statement reminded me of it.

Just like the importance of reputation in the world of business, I think when we are charitable (as in, we aren't forced to subsidize someone else's needs but rather choose to help a cause close to our hearts) we boost our personal reputation. Part of reputation, at least how I see it, is comprised of different parts -- like character, integrity, etc. If people know about our good deeds, our reputation becomes better. And even if people don't necessarily know we donated food or sent some money or whatever, it shows in our character. When we help someone out, we usually get a good feeling about it. We feel good about helping someone in need and that person feels good because they got something they needed. This translates into a happier person, thereby making the environment around them more positive.

This is why I think that libertarianism is not a negative selfish. We're essentially helping ourselves by helping others. We make the community around us a better place and by doing it of our own free will, we are positively impacted rather than the negative impact forced charity produces.

I know that may sound cheesy, but it's just a musing.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
12-13-2008, 09:48 PM
I'd rather see families turning to churches, rather than the government, for help.

These kids aren't starving. If they are, it's because their parents are too lazy to fill out the one page "free lunch program" application.

I think this is a bullsh*t article, almost entirely fictional. And the person that wrote it is a drain on the system, not an asset to the community.

I am a teacher in my local school system and while I do not know if this story is legit, I can honestly tell you that this is happening. I am seeing kids show up every day with nothing in their lunch boxes and I have seen kids cry in the past week when the kids get handed a "what do you want for christmas" worksheet because they know full well that there may not be a christmas this year. Many parents are applying for the free lunch program but there is a long wait and many of these parents are younger people who have not had a long time to build up extensive savings.

tremendoustie
12-13-2008, 10:33 PM
One big part of the free market has to do with reputations -- such as, if you know a company has a bad reputation for something like treating their employees badly or making low-quality products, you're less likely to buy from that company. I was kind of musing about libertarianism, charity and this statement reminded me of it.

Just like the importance of reputation in the world of business, I think when we are charitable (as in, we aren't forced to subsidize someone else's needs but rather choose to help a cause close to our hearts) we boost our personal reputation. Part of reputation, at least how I see it, is comprised of different parts -- like character, integrity, etc. If people know about our good deeds, our reputation becomes better. And even if people don't necessarily know we donated food or sent some money or whatever, it shows in our character. When we help someone out, we usually get a good feeling about it. We feel good about helping someone in need and that person feels good because they got something they needed. This translates into a happier person, thereby making the environment around them more positive.

This is why I think that libertarianism is not a negative selfish. We're essentially helping ourselves by helping others. We make the community around us a better place and by doing it of our own free will, we are positively impacted rather than the negative impact forced charity produces.

I know that may sound cheesy, but it's just a musing.

I think many people also help those in need simply because they care about them. It doesn't need to trace back to reputation, or even a good feeling, although those things are nice. And I absolutely agree that voluntary charity produces many good results, where forced charity has many negative impacts.

Libertarianism simply recognizes that it would be immoral for me to use violence to force you to do moral things. The fact remains that helping people of one's own free will is the right thing to do. Libertarians should be the most generous people on earth, for the same reason that statists are on average the most stingy: because we recognize that improving things and helping people is our own responsibility, not the government's, and not our neighbor's.

I'm a big fan of a lot of what Rand said, but she got that one wrong IMO.

Jeremy
12-13-2008, 11:19 PM
A lot of kids in my school never ate lunch. I graduated last June. But I feel really sad because I know these people don't know how this could happen or what's going on. We have the solution... I just wish we could use it. :( Darn rich politicians.

Tatsit
12-14-2008, 12:13 AM
Quite frankly, I am appalled at some members' reactions. The author is not saying the government needs to step in and force people to donate to people in need. Yes, she obviously teaches in a public school and yes, obviously many of you disagree with government schooling (as do I). However, this isn't about some socialistic government agenda, this is about what kids are going through because of their parents' mistakes.

I take this personally, because I was one of those kids.


I agree, why when someone posts something nice that someone did for someone else its suddenly it's government this, liberal that... blah blah blah...

Read the article for what it is - quit digging so much into it.
It is a good heart felt story - and I too was one of those kids - I was raised along with 2 brothers and my sister by my single mother - who lost her job when I was in 5th grade, right before the holidays.

tropicangela
12-14-2008, 12:50 AM
School lunches are expensive. Sad story. Will probably be us someday.

devil21
12-14-2008, 12:57 AM
Im also kinda surprised by the negative reactions to this "article". After all, Ron Paul himself has been saying all along that it is PEOPLE HELPING PEOPLE that makes the difference, not the government helping people. Charity, human decency, and kindness. I see nothing remotely socialistic about the post as long as you are being asked to help others voluntarily, which is what it stated. Being forced to help is something entirely different and I think we know the difference. Sadly, I think too many just see DailyKos as the source and write it off as Dem propaganda without really thinking about what it says.

I think I may just grab some travel size toiletries on my next grocery trip and drop them off at my local elementary school. And I don't even have kids.

tropicangela
12-14-2008, 01:16 AM
The problem I could see, if any, is the free lunch program offered that parents apply for. That is what would forcefully take from other people's pockets. That application is offered to every single person who starts school, though, not just people who ask for it or need it.

If charity organizations could provide to these parents, with items donated by people who can, that is what would help.

WRellim
12-14-2008, 04:59 AM
Crowns and Pirate Hats in 8th grade? PHYSICS in 7th grade? Junior Achievement and Econ in 6th grade?


Note this cognitive dissonance in those things.

She claims to teach with "LOTS of TOYS" and wearing (childish) crowns & pirate hats -- and yet then claims to be teaching "physics."

I can assure you of several things.

1) The kids are really NOT learning anything of substance about "physics" (or any real "Economics" either) -- it's all dumbed-down "activities" and "group discussions" with intervening "puppet shows".

2) They are being fed a steady diet of "socialist/environmentalist" mumbo-jumbo that they are instructed and expected to regurgitate.

3) They are NOT being taught anything that will have any value in real-life.



Is this a sad story? Yes, but I find the "unspoken" things here to be even sadder.

First is that the problem here is irresponsible parents. It has been obvious for years that the economy was running on "fumes" -- and for MONTHS now anyone in the banking sector should have been preparing for the worst. If they are *SO* unprepared that they not only cannot afford to give their children lunch money, but that they are so *totally* clueless as to not even think about sending a bag-lunch instead -- means that Mom & Dad are just plain old self-centered dipshits. (We already kind of know that, in that they obviously overbought a house and were dependant upon TWO incomes to pay the mortgage, CC payments, and other bills -- i.e. they were probably BARELY living paycheck to paycheck prior to the layoffs. And they had ZERO in a rainy day fund. How do I know this? Simple. If they were both recently unemployed, then they both are getting unemployment, which is about 1/2 normal pay -- add the two checks together and you have the equivalent of ONE full paycheck -- which SHOULD be sufficient to maintain a minimal life. The fact that it isn't sufficient to even pay for a kid's lunch -- and that some of them are putting the kids TOYS on ebay? Means they are in DEEP credit card hell.)


THE ABOVE IS NOTHING NEW! It has happened to many families in the past several years. I had a young coworker (with a well-paid salary job) a few years back, who came to me one week as a Chistian Brother and asked for a $100 loan because (literally) their kitchen cupboards were bare (as in his wife was crying that they would have NOTHING to eat that weekend) and he had ZERO cash or credit left (he had expected to get an expense reimbursement check that week... but it was delayed, his wife had lost her part-time job, 5 -- count 'em FIVE kids in the house, etc). I gave him a GIFT of $300 (not a loan... I don't do "loans" to friends) to tide them over the hump.

About a month later the same thing happened... again. I agreed to give him another gift (I think it was $1,000 but it might have been only $500, I actually don't recall) ...but with the proviso that *I* would sit down with him AND his wife and we would go over their finances -- ALL of their finances, hiding nothing; I didn't expect him to accept, but he agreed (and amazingly enough his wife did too). It took two separate nights, but I was able to teach them some proper budgeting. We (literally) "froze" their credit cards that night (in ice trays) and went through what they would need to do to get on an even keel, and start making progress (which also included bringing their two oldest kids "in" on the state of the family finances, and how they could help). I gave them a couple books to read, etc.

Long story short, within 6 months they had a small "emergency" savings account (enough to tide pay all regular expenses for a full month) -- a year on they were out of CC debt and making substantial progress financially. The marriage (which had been rocky due mainly to the financial situation) has been saved, house problems fixed, etc. He got a promotion, then a better job with another firm (with them "banking" instead of wasting the increased wages), and things are really looking up. They LEARNED from their near-disaster, so much so that my (now former) coworker shared with me that he "paid me back" for my gifts and advise by "paying it forward" with a younger coworker at his new job who was having similar problems.

So to me, I see a second SAD thing here -- a solid "teaching" opportunity will be lost (for the kids if not also the parents) -- not because of any lack of compassion, but because of a lack of knowledge on the part of this "teacher". Those kids COULD learn many valuable lessons from the way their parents screwed-up -- but from THIS TEACHER they are very likely going to be taught that not only wasn't it the KIDS fault, but that it wasn't their parents fault either -- and instead it's those nasty "capitalists" who are to blame, and that the "government" will be their salvation (as in the proverbial "free lunch").

Now maybe, just *maybe* a small number of those kids will figure out the TRUTH of the matter for themselves, but the vast majority will believe the BS they are being indoctrinated with. And thus we'll have yet another generation looking to the government for "salvation."


Plus ca change, plus ce la meme chose.

WRellim
12-14-2008, 05:32 AM
I am a teacher in my local school system and while I do not know if this story is legit, I can honestly tell you that this is happening. I am seeing kids show up every day with nothing in their lunch boxes and I have seen kids cry in the past week when the kids get handed a "what do you want for christmas" worksheet because they know full well that there may not be a christmas this year. Many parents are applying for the free lunch program but there is a long wait and many of these parents are younger people who have not had a long time to build up extensive savings.

My personal opinion is that in a LOT of ways, this is a GOOD thing.

I've SEEN what a lot of these kids have had for "Christmas lists" in the past several years (even kids with parents on welfare)... and quite frankly the vast majority of the kids in this nation have been spoiled ROTTEN for the past several decades.

While it is the PARENTS who are truly being irresponsible, the kids have been learning that they can have "anything they want" and that mom & dad will just put in on the credit card... as a result, they kids have become whining, demanding little imps (who then have NO appreciation for the TONS of toys they get, break them instantly and demand something else a day later... which they usually get!)

[grumpy-old-man rant]
When I was a kid, we got to pick ONE toy from the Sears catalog for Christmas -- and some years my brother and I got to pick ONE toy *together* -- we VALUED what we had, and our toys lasted a long time because we took care of them.
[/grumpy-old-man rant]

I agree with the poster earlier -- these kids are NOT starving. They are simply being deprived of their former "have it all now -- pay for it later" lifestyle. They (and their families) will need to learn to live WITHOUT $100 designer jeans, without $200 Reeboks not to mention the $300 iPods, personal Camera-cell-phones, brand-new laptops every fall, etc.

If they need to go without a lunch for a few days -- maybe it will make them appreciate even a brown-bag lunch when they have it again -- and coming home to a decent dinner will be something to look forward to instead of something to avoid while chomping on snickers & playing Wii. (A growling stomach teaches a LOT of important lessons in priorities -- lessons that are simply hard to learn any other way).

And as far a Christmas -- it's NOT supposed to be about how big of a "haul" you can get -- besides a little "delayed gratification" never hurt anyone. Most of these kids have closets FILLED with toys that were beyond our imaginations when we were kids (I had a box of legos, a half-dozen "matchbox" cars and books, and I was never bored.)

And those "younger parents" have had plenty of time -- but they spent it gathering a lot of EXPENSIVE JUNK -- Xboxes, Nintendo Wii, cell-phones, brand new cars, etc. -- and nearly all of it on a "buy now, pay later" pile of credit cards.

Well guess what? IT'S LATER RIGHT NOW.

If anyone ever read them the story about the "Grasshopper and the Ant" they were not paying attention, so whose fault is that?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way... THESE are starving kids:

http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/starving-kids-demotivational-posters.jpg


These are NOT.

http://www.playbackstl.com/images/stories/films/film_alphadog.jpg

WRellim
12-14-2008, 06:00 AM
Sometimes it's a choice between (extraneous) things such as electricity/water, or gas in your car so you can get to work and enough money to buy food to get some nutrition into your kids and maybe you. Thank god that choice never had to happen to my family (more like, which ones will we risk by paying the bill late) but I've heard of some instances with others where that choice had to be made.

Some opt for the belly over dirt on the face and a little bit of smell.


On a temporary basis -- sure. But on a continued basis? Then it's more likely it's just laziness, irresponsibility, and a distorted set of priorities.

And yet... somehow the cellphone bills and the cable TV (with HBO and Showtime) still manage to get paid. (I've seen this with my own eyes so many times it's sickening: "WAAA we can't afford to pay the heat/water bill [...] followed five minutes later by oooh... did you see what happened on "True Blood" last night? Excuse me, that's my cellphone ringing... Oops, it's my daughter's cell phone... Britney! Mom, that's not MY cellphone, it's Alisha's... ALISHA! ")

BTW, if you weren't aware, ALL of the utilities have "hardship" and "assistance" programs available to help those truly in need; all it takes is a phone call to keep from having water/electricity cut off.

And yes, there have been several times in my life where I have been "dirt poor" -- where a can of peanut butter and a loaf of bread had to be my whole menu for a full week -- it is survivable, and TEACHES good priorities. (And I never used it as an excuse to walk around looking homeless).

Truth Warrior
12-14-2008, 06:19 AM
How much is spent per pupil, per year, on average, on "government schooling" ( so called ) in Amerika?

Gee, I'm really sorry kid, that your folks didn't give you any lunch money. < SNIFF >

TANSTAAFL! ;)

Sometimes reality just sucks. Ya better just start getting used to it, and consider THAT an ESSENTIAL part of your education TOO.

BTW, the DOE, NEA cabal "brain damaged" government schooled, middle school ( in particular ) kids often just LIE to the "bleeding hearts" for no discernible reason in particular.<IMHO>

BTW #2, SCREW Daily Kos!!! It's merely "liberal" ( socialist ), dishonest, lame, pathetic and worthless.<IMHO>

kathy88
12-14-2008, 06:23 AM
On a temporary basis -- sure. But on a continued basis? Then it's more likely it's just laziness, irresponsibility, and a distorted set of priorities.

And yet... somehow the cellphone bills and the cable TV (with HBO and Showtime) still manage to get paid. (I've seen this with my own eyes so many times it's sickening: "WAAA we can't afford to pay the heat/water bill [...] followed five minutes later by oooh... did you see what happened on "True Blood" last night? Excuse me, that's my cellphone ringing... Oops, it's my daughter's cell phone... Britney! Mom, that's not MY cellphone, it's Alisha's... ALISHA! ")

BTW, if you weren't aware, ALL of the utilities have "hardship" and "assistance" programs available to help those truly in need; all it takes is a phone call to keep from having water/electricity cut off.

And yes, there have been several times in my life where I have been "dirt poor" -- where a can of peanut butter and a loaf of bread had to be my whole menu for a full week -- it is survivable, and TEACHES good priorities. (And I never used it as an excuse to walk around looking homeless).



I see this all the time. I'm the mother of a teenager and just last night his friend was over. His mother runs a daycare, and makes a modest living. The step father is on disiblity (recovering from several bouts with cancer). He came up here to go sledding with my son because we have great hills. The child had with him a snowboard comlete with gear ($450 Burton boots, $200 jacket, $150 gloves, etc......), 3 other sleds and a big tube. My son went out in his brght orange hunting gear (because it's the warmest clothing he has) with his $5.00 dollar store plastic disk and a garbage can lid. Guess what, he had just as much fun. I've got video to prove it. This child's mother complains all the time about how little money she makes, yet every time I talk to her she's either just coming from, going or is currently "shopping."

Truth Warrior
12-14-2008, 07:32 AM
I see this all the time. I'm the mother of a teenager and just last night his friend was over. His mother runs a daycare, and makes a modest living. The step father is on disiblity (recovering from several bouts with cancer). He came up here to go sledding with my son because we have great hills. The child had with him a snowboard comlete with gear ($450 Burton boots, $200 jacket, $150 gloves, etc......), 3 other sleds and a big tube. My son went out in his brght orange hunting gear (because it's the warmest clothing he has) with his $5.00 dollar store plastic disk and a garbage can lid. Guess what, he had just as much fun. I've got video to prove it. This child's mother complains all the time about how little money she makes, yet every time I talk to her she's either just coming from, going or is currently "shopping." I'd be willing to bet that the odds, that the mother in your story was merely "government schooled" too, are very high. ;) :( :mad:

jkm1864
12-14-2008, 11:56 AM
These kids aren't starving. Go to Africa and you'll see starving children. I'm just pissed off at the kids parents. How can they not be prepared to be laid off and with a kid?


Man You are heartless... I can't believe You would not help a child in need. You know these situations are not the child's fault or most of the time isn't the parents fault. So you might want to change your attitude because You could be next on the chopping block. I have been layed off before and guess what its not nice especially since it was a situation that was totally out of my control. I plan on doing something when I get home and hopefully I can get rid of a lot of toys that are clogging up my house.

Truth Warrior
12-14-2008, 12:29 PM
Freedom, Peace and Prosperity ARE the answers. Charity and handouts to the undeserving are not. It only tends to breed a resentful dependency.

WRellim
12-14-2008, 12:45 PM
Man You are heartless... I can't believe You would not help a child in need. You know these situations are not the child's fault or most of the time isn't the parents fault. So you might want to change your attitude because You could be next on the chopping block. I have been layed off before and guess what its not nice especially since it was a situation that was totally out of my control. I plan on doing something when I get home and hopefully I can get rid of a lot of toys that are clogging up my house.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

He stated a FACT (the kids are not "starving") -- and you come back with an unnecessary accusation and a bunch of BS.

And I'm sure all of those used toys (the ones that are "clogging up" your house) will really help those kids stomachs "feel" fuller.

Oh, and make sure you tell them again how IYO, it is NOT their parents responsibility to keep them fed & clothed.

Then you can trot on out and join the Socialist Workers Party... may as well carry the party card that matches your political beliefs.

AutoDas
12-14-2008, 12:51 PM
I know that generally, we in America aren't starving like kids in 3rd world countries. Nevertheless, being pissed at the kids' parents for "not being prepared"? You must be either very young, very naive, or both.

Go tell all the people in the liberty forest that all of their preparing is for naught.:rolleyes:

AutoDas
12-14-2008, 12:52 PM
So, you'll be helping out the kids in Africa then, is that what you're saying?

No.

AutoDas
12-14-2008, 12:59 PM
Man You are heartless... I can't believe You would not help a child in need. You know these situations are not the child's fault or most of the time isn't the parents fault. So you might want to change your attitude because You could be next on the chopping block. I have been layed off before and guess what its not nice especially since it was a situation that was totally out of my control. I plan on doing something when I get home and hopefully I can get rid of a lot of toys that are clogging up my house.

Wow you're such a better person than me for giving toys away when this child is "starving":rolleyes:
Where the fuck did I lay the blame on the child?

I just think by you giving money to these kids then you're only going to make them reliant on donations when they don't need it when you have kids in Africa that are in far worse shape than middle America. Why does this case tug at your heart strings and not the thousands of cases around the world?

itsthepathocrats
12-14-2008, 01:01 PM
What is quite evident on this forum, and what I've observed for quite some time in
the real world, is that we've lost our humanity. In short, we've been ponerized.

In his own way, Ron mentioned this during the campaign, saying something to
effect of....we're an amoral society...and an amoral society get the kind of
leadership that reflect its values.

Nirvikalpa
12-14-2008, 01:04 PM
I volunteered at a soup kitchen in Scranton over Thanksgiving break, and 3 times the number that usually come in for food came this past Thanksgiving. 3x the number. We usually can feed 1,500 people... we easily had more than 4000 people descend upon us for ANYTHING we had, and a surprising number were families that just couldn't afford it.

I heard from people that it was the same story for those who volunteered in food pantries in NJ and NY as well.

The media is wrong. The crisis is a lot worse than what they are reporting. They are worried about the scandle in IL and forgetting about the biggest scandle of all - the screwing of the American people. Such a shame.

If you have the free time, please volunteer your services, goods, time, etc for those who might really need it. It's an eye-opening experience and you might leave with more than you had coming in.

Truth Warrior
12-14-2008, 01:11 PM
What is quite evident on this forum, and what I've observed for quite some time in
the real world, is that we've lost our humanity. In short, we've been ponerized.

In his own way, Ron mentioned this during the campaign, saying something to
effect of....we're an amoral society...and an amoral society get the kind of
leadership that reflect its values.

"Society are people." -- Frank Chodorov

"Humanity" has been merely preempted, outsourced and delegated to the government, by their invitation. And, of course, as usual, they just merely TOTALLY SNAFUBARd it. :p :rolleyes:

LittleLightShining
12-14-2008, 04:03 PM
School lunches are expensive. Sad story. Will probably be us someday.
Since the beginning of the school year I've been working in the school cafeteria (combined elementary and middle school) helping the kids separate food waste from trash and recyclables. There are kids who come with no lunch. I noticed a boy who had no lunch for 2 days in a row and bought him lunch. A few times. He confided in me that his parents have been having a hard time lately. I wondered at first if he was taking advantage of me, got him a free lunch form and kept buying him lunch til he had it all straightened out. I don't think he was lying to me, his shoes are so worn and he wears the same 3 outfits in rotation. He now gets hot lunch-- which is a decent balanced meal that costs cash paying kids $2-- and eats every bite. This is just one example of what I see.

What's disgusting to me is the amount of food that gets thrown away. Kids will take every single piece of food that's available to them and will throw away a perfectly good banana or milk or serving of mashed potatoes or soup or whatever. I have started trying to rescue the bananas, milks and other packaged foods that come from home. Sometimes I salvage 25 bananas a day. I bring them home and my kids eat them or I make banana bread. If a kid is still hungry they know they can take them from my cart.

Speaking of lunches from home-- parents, please talk to your kids about what they can finish before you pack their lunchboxes. I cannot tell you how many whole, lovingly or hastily made sandwiches, carrot sticks, apples, pears, etc. end up in the food waste untouched.

Anyway, that's my school lunch rant. There are kids in school who are needy and it is not our place to lay blame on the parents for falling on tough times. There are also families that still have more than enough and those kids have no idea how hungry some of their classmates really are.

moostraks
12-15-2008, 09:58 AM
For those of you who arrogantly think you have prepared and nothing could happen to you so you look down your nose and berate those who are falling on hard times...KARMA! Only by the grace of G*d have you been spared!!!

Truth Warrior
12-15-2008, 10:58 AM
For those of you who arrogantly think you have prepared and nothing could happen to you so you look down your nose and berate those who are falling on hard times...KARMA! Only by the grace of G*d have you been spared!!! No one, so far, that I have seen post here has bashed those that have temporarily fallen on hard times through no fault of their own.

There are just far too many of the "entitled" undeserving that merely continue to choose to make their hard times an ongoing way of life.<IMHO>

To them, TANSTAAFL!

moostraks
12-15-2008, 01:12 PM
No one, so far, that I have seen post here has bashed those that have temporarily fallen on hard times through no fault of their own.

There are just far too many of the "entitled" undeserving that merely continue to choose to make their hard times an ongoing way of life.<IMHO>

To them, TANSTAAFL!

I reckon we interpret some of these responses here quite differently then. There has always been a certain meanspiritedness in many people at this forum, some of these responses on this thread are indicative of just that sort of character flaw.

The fact that several here want to act as if this is all a hoax response for a call towards more socialism shows just how disconnected from the real world quite a few people who post on here are. Everyone isn't out to steal you money because they are too lazy to make it on their own. Some people have genuinely fallen on hard times and the children are the ones who often bear the visible witness to the reality not being spoken of in the press and often not seen by those priviledged enough not to be suffering from the economic downturn.

The bitterness that many here feel towards caring for one's fellow man is what will stifle this movement because no one will trust in the capacity of society to care for the underpriviledged without being forced to do so as long as those calling for freedom and liberty act as if the underpriviledged have all brought it upon themselves and deserve to die a slow painful death.:mad:

To say that there is not poverty here in the US because one has the capacity to be master of their future ignores the reality of the level of economic destruction occurring in our midst. It ignores the people who live in tent cities because the money is not there to pay for a roof over their heads. It ignores the number of people in limbo trying not to ask for government assistance but unable to find a living wage while we eat our own fighting to keep money stolen from the tax-payers in the hands of the elite and bankster class.

The children are dirty because there is either not money for water or they are living in a circumstances that procludes the evening bath, yet some here want to pretend this does not occur and the incidences aren't increasing or that somehow it is a circumstance that could have been prevented but for their parents' stupidity and selfishness.

Maybe if one would take the time to reallize that those doing without are the very ones not being cared for by social services and you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. Instead of getting on a high horse and being disdainful, prove the value of getting the government out of social issues by being the greater resource. It isn't about enabling people to be lazy but increasing those who value liberty enough not to approach the government as soon as disaster strikes. It is not letting starvation and destitution be the result of a government/elite engineered disaster, but community response independant of government interference which leads to a valuing of individual response and call to action in times of crisis.

TANSTAAFL? Yeah TANSTAAFL...You want a freedom movement then prove its value in times of crisis or accept that most people will settle for whatever security the government is willing to offer. The freedom movement will not come without a cost and this is an area that could be a better investment then that stupid blimp. People want to limit the exposure of the next generation to the government indoctrination program? Then become a resource, some states allow non-relatives to aid in homeschooling without being a relative or licensed. TANSTAAFL!!! No people here are too busy looking for the get rich quick scheme or moaning about how stupid society is rather than looking at being a counter-response to that which is detested:government intervention.

Truth Warrior
12-15-2008, 01:31 PM
I reckon we interpret some of these responses here quite differently then. There has always been a certain meanspiritedness in many people at this forum, some of these responses on this thread are indicative of just that sort of character flaw.

The fact that several here want to act as if this is all a hoax response for a call towards more socialism shows just how disconnected from the real world quite a few people who post on here are. Everyone isn't out to steal you money because they are too lazy to make it on their own. Some people have genuinely fallen on hard times and the children are the ones who often bear the visible witness to the reality not being spoken of in the press and often not seen by those priviledged enough not to be suffering from the economic downturn.

The bitterness that many here feel towards caring for one's fellow man is what will stifle this movement because no one will trust in the capacity of society to care for the underpriviledged without being forced to do so as long as those calling for freedom and liberty act as if the underpriviledged have all brought it upon themselves and deserve to die a slow painful death.:mad:

To say that there is not poverty here in the US because one has the capacity to be master of their future ignores the reality of the level of economic destruction occurring in our midst. It ignores the people who live in tent cities because the money is not there to pay for a roof over their heads. It ignores the number of people in limbo trying not to ask for government assistance but unable to find a living wage while we eat our own fighting to keep money stolen from the tax-payers in the hands of the elite and bankster class.

The children are dirty because there is either not money for water or they are living in a circumstances that procludes the evening bath, yet some here want to pretend this does not occur and the incidences aren't increasing or that somehow it is a circumstance that could have been prevented but for their parents' stupidity and selfishness.

Maybe if one would take the time to reallize that those doing without are the very ones not being cared for by social services and you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. Instead of getting on a high horse and being disdainful, prove the value of getting the government out of social issues by being the greater resource. It isn't about enabling people to be lazy but increasing those who value liberty enough not to approach the government as soon as disaster strikes. It is not letting starvation and destitution be the result of a government/elite engineered disaster, but community response independant of government interference which leads to a valuing of individual response and call to action in times of crisis.

TANSTAAFL? Yeah TANSTAAFL...You want a freedom movement then prove its value in times of crisis or accept that most people will settle for whatever security the government is willing to offer. The freedom movement will not come without a cost and this is an area that could be a better investment then that stupid blimp. People want to limit the exposure of the next generation to the government indoctrination program? Then become a resource, some states allow non-relatives to aid in homeschooling without being a relative or licensed. TANSTAAFL!!! No people here are too busy looking for the get rich quick scheme or moaning about how stupid society is rather than looking at being a counter-response to that which is detested:government intervention.

Nice rant there. KUDOS!

Simple response, most here DETEST socialism. Daily Kos is ONLY that. ;)

You can put lipstick on that pig, but it's still just a pig, now with lipstick. :p :rolleyes:

asimplegirl
12-15-2008, 01:34 PM
I have to say that while I feel sorry for kids doing without, or feeling guilty for needing to ask for help, even from their own parents, I must say that I have seen too many times the parents that do nothing, and teach their kids to rely on others for monetary needs- and that includes buying them lunch. That being said, if you feel in your heart that someone is in need and want to help, do that, and do it being proud of yourself and not asking, "what if".
I have been had more times than I could count, but I will never regret the times that I helped because I did what I felt right at that moment, and the person that does not follow their heart, is just being dishonest with themselves. This may seem really off base, or out there, but you should know that I was also one of those children.
I grew up under the poverty level, but my mother was a very self centered, materialistic person, and saw only the need for new clothes, a new car every 6 months, and name brand everything....but when it came to food...well, honey, you'd better fend for yourself.
I will tell you that I have yet in this life to rise above the poverty level, but am much better off. We (dh, dss, and I)drive a vehicle we paid cash for. We live in a modest home that we own. We wear lightly used clothing, and do not even buy that often. We do not take hand outs, yet we have not gone without yet. Our bills are always paid- on time, we only use cash, we are in no debt at all, and we eat more nutritious meals than people who make triple our income eat.
My stepson understands the value of a dollar. And while, up to this point he has never done without, and can tell you exactly what that means. He is told everyday of people that have it much harder than we do, and it is HIS place and no one else's to make his life better, and that doesn't only have to do with money, but the decisions you make with that money, and your time. We do not feed into the commercialism of this society, and don't intend to ever do so..... the difference between us and families that live opposite us?

We can look at each other and smile, knowing we are content, we are happy with what we have. When there is something one of us really wants, alot of times we can buy it- with cash, and we really appreciate that item.

I know what it means to be hungry, I know what it means to be cold, I also know what it means to feel embarrassed of your parents' actions.... I see that alot of the responses here may seem cold and heartless, but they are merely saying the same thing, parents are usually to blame...just remember, though, there are kids that do appreciate what YOU do for them...don't FORCE them to ask the government for help.

Merry Christmas! Remember to celebrate simply, and remember the true meaning.

Truth Warrior
12-15-2008, 01:44 PM
"Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

moostraks
12-15-2008, 02:08 PM
Nice rant there. KUDOS!

Simple response, most here DETEST socialism. Daily Kos is ONLY that. ;)

You can put lipstick on that pig, but it's still just a pig, now with lipstick. :p :rolleyes:

Then look for this same situation outside of the kos article. This crap is going on, and many here want to act is if it doesn't because it hasn't reached them yet. I am not discussing the merits of the article's origination but taking issue with the attitude of the respondents to this thread.

Glad to oblige btw with the rant.:D

Can't help but notice you glossed over being hoisted on your own petard.:p

moostraks
12-15-2008, 02:25 PM
He who lives only to benefit himself confers on the world a benefit when he dies.
Tertullian

liberteebell
12-15-2008, 02:29 PM
I reckon we interpret some of these responses here quite differently then. There has always been a certain meanspiritedness in many people at this forum, some of these responses on this thread are indicative of just that sort of character flaw.

The fact that several here want to act as if this is all a hoax response for a call towards more socialism shows just how disconnected from the real world quite a few people who post on here are. Everyone isn't out to steal you money because they are too lazy to make it on their own. Some people have genuinely fallen on hard times and the children are the ones who often bear the visible witness to the reality not being spoken of in the press and often not seen by those priviledged enough not to be suffering from the economic downturn.

The bitterness that many here feel towards caring for one's fellow man is what will stifle this movement because no one will trust in the capacity of society to care for the underpriviledged without being forced to do so as long as those calling for freedom and liberty act as if the underpriviledged have all brought it upon themselves and deserve to die a slow painful death.:mad:

To say that there is not poverty here in the US because one has the capacity to be master of their future ignores the reality of the level of economic destruction occurring in our midst. It ignores the people who live in tent cities because the money is not there to pay for a roof over their heads. It ignores the number of people in limbo trying not to ask for government assistance but unable to find a living wage while we eat our own fighting to keep money stolen from the tax-payers in the hands of the elite and bankster class.

The children are dirty because there is either not money for water or they are living in a circumstances that procludes the evening bath, yet some here want to pretend this does not occur and the incidences aren't increasing or that somehow it is a circumstance that could have been prevented but for their parents' stupidity and selfishness.

Maybe if one would take the time to reallize that those doing without are the very ones not being cared for by social services and you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. Instead of getting on a high horse and being disdainful, prove the value of getting the government out of social issues by being the greater resource. It isn't about enabling people to be lazy but increasing those who value liberty enough not to approach the government as soon as disaster strikes. It is not letting starvation and destitution be the result of a government/elite engineered disaster, but community response independant of government interference which leads to a valuing of individual response and call to action in times of crisis.

TANSTAAFL? Yeah TANSTAAFL...You want a freedom movement then prove its value in times of crisis or accept that most people will settle for whatever security the government is willing to offer. The freedom movement will not come without a cost and this is an area that could be a better investment then that stupid blimp. People want to limit the exposure of the next generation to the government indoctrination program? Then become a resource, some states allow non-relatives to aid in homeschooling without being a relative or licensed. TANSTAAFL!!! No people here are too busy looking for the get rich quick scheme or moaning about how stupid society is rather than looking at being a counter-response to that which is detested:government intervention.


Excellent! And I agree.

Truth Warrior
12-15-2008, 02:46 PM
Then look for this same situation outside of the kos article. This crap is going on, and many here want to act is if it doesn't because it hasn't reached them yet. I am not discussing the merits of the article's origination but taking issue with the attitude of the respondents to this thread.

Glad to oblige btw with the rant.:D

Can't help but notice you glossed over being hoisted on your own petard.:p

Yeah my eyes tend to just glaze over when confronted with posts even approaching "wall o' text" proportions. I tend to miss some things, but usually not much of any real importance, I've usually found. ;)

Care to try that "claimed" petard hoisting again, this time without the camouflage? :D