Does the movement have anything resembling a plan?

[wizardwatson]

I doubt it but lets see what you believe. And if you say yes, I think we'd all like to know what it is.

[wizardwatson]

Read what Rothbard said about Libertarian strategy here:

http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics/thirty.asp

[IPSecure]

Similar to the RonPaul2008 site, with regards to setting up local chapters / contacts / etc...

[Truth Warrior]

The plan of the movement is to "fix" the system, whatever that means. :rolleyes:

The plan of the revolution is still a secret. Shhhh! ;)

:D

[LiveToWin]

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt



Soap - Failed
Ballot - Failed
Jury - Attempting
Ammo - Pending


We are on the Jury box, teetering on Ammo. If your not doing anything realted to Jury, try Soap again. If all else fails we still have one more box.

[Deborah K]

We're all over the place. The liberty movement needs to align with already established pro-liberty orgs. like the NRA, MCDC, JBS, Grassfire.org and the like. We need a coalition of sorts, to start with.

[newyearsrevolution08]

We're all over the place. The liberty movement needs to align with already established pro-liberty orgs. like the NRA, MCDC, JBS, Grassfire.org and the like. We need a coalition of sorts, to start with.

I think focusing on local election and public offices would be easiest for everyone AND keep us accountable for our own cities and towns.

As far as getting in with other orgs, they all have a drawback of some form. Like with the cfl they can't endorse anyone....

Maybe staying grassroots locally but get organized on the national level with various liberty minded groups would be beneficial.

So the question is, would the cfl be willing to do this with other various orgs or would they prefer to be strictly cfl with everything they do?

And if that is the case, what would our national "GRassroots" platform be if we had to do it WITHOUT the help of the cfl. We can't really just jump into another liberty group and push rules and so on of our own IF their org already has laws or rules that are different. With liberty comes individuals and most if not all, don't all agree on the same things and is why we tend to have 100+ liberty groups. While they all are working towards the same goal, they all have a different objective in their fight.

[ronpaulhawaii]

The liberty movement has plans. Some are new, some are old. Some are being implemented, some are nascent.

CFL (http://campaignforliberty.com) is setting up a decent precinct level organizing tool.

RtR (http://www.restoretherepublic.com/) has done well starting up the End The Fed aspect.

RMF (http://www.revolutionmarch.com) has plans for another DC rally.

LRP (http://www.libertyrestorationproject.org/) has some good stuff happening in KC

The Boston Tea Party 08 (http://www.bostonteaparty08.com/) is this weekend

I recently floated "The Repeal a Law Project (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=171435)", which people seem to like...

And just today floated an idea for consolidating with the Grassroots Portal Project (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=171696)

I suppose it depends on your definition of "the" movement...

;)

[Nate K]

To coalesce with any organization who doesn't share our sentiments is to lower our standards and compromise our principles.

[TruthisTreason]

Educate, get involved, and pray for rain.

[Truth Warrior]

To coalesce with any organization who doesn't share our sentiments is to lower our standards and compromise our principles. Bingo!!! Have a cookie. :D

[Deborah K]

To coalesce with any organization who doesn't share our sentiments is to lower our standards and compromise our principles.

Well no shit. But does that mean that if their focus is not exactly, precisely the same focus as ours that we would be compromising our principles? If the goal is to throw off a tyrannical gov't, then we need a multi-pronged approach. We need the numbers. There are more of us than there are of the tyrants. We need to ban together. We should use the writings during the first revolution as a way to unite us all under the same banner.

[Nate K]

Well no shit. But does that mean that if their focus is not exactly, precisely the same focus as ours that we would be compromising our principles? If the goal is to throw off a tyrannical gov't, then we need a multi-pronged approach. We need the numbers. There are more of us than there are of the tyrants. We need to ban together. We should use the writings during the first revolution as a way to unite us all under the same banner.

The republican party is probably the best example I can give you.

[thechitowncubs]

We need to have an agenda, ASAP... with dynamic deadlines.
Get people on the same page.

[Rangeley]

The "liberty movement" isn't a collective, it's a group of individuals. We all were involved in Ron Paul's campaign, because it was a national effort that everyone could be involved in. Now, there are smaller, more local level things going on. People in college are joining YAL groups, or even making them (as I hope to do soon.) Others are becoming involved in their local parties, even planning on running in the future. Other's are taking other paths to educate people. This isn't a comprehensive list, it's just a few things people can be doing.

The question shouldn't be "does the movement have a plan," but instead, do you have one.

[Truth Warrior]

The only problem with pragmatism is that it doesn't work. :D

[Deborah K]

I think focusing on local election and public offices would be easiest for everyone AND keep us accountable for our own cities and towns.

As far as getting in with other orgs, they all have a drawback of some form. Like with the cfl they can't endorse anyone....

Maybe staying grassroots locally but get organized on the national level with various liberty minded groups would be beneficial.

So the question is, would the cfl be willing to do this with other various orgs or would they prefer to be strictly cfl with everything they do?

And if that is the case, what would our national "GRassroots" platform be if we had to do it WITHOUT the help of the cfl. We can't really just jump into another liberty group and push rules and so on of our own IF their org already has laws or rules that are different. With liberty comes individuals and most if not all, don't all agree on the same things and is why we tend to have 100+ liberty groups. While they all are working towards the same goal, they all have a different objective in their fight.

I've been part of a coalition in the past. We, in the border security movement, formed one in 2007 to stop the amnesty bill. You don't push rules on others, etc. Think of it as an alliance with another nation. The objective being that you have eachother's back.

[newyearsrevolution08]

This is why I think it would be best if people just took care of their own backyards first. Everyone can do that, we can design a strategy that can be duplicated in most any city. We won't have to worry about statewide or national efforts to trickle down and we would be able to accomplish more in MORE cities this way.

Harder to stop us this way as well.

[Deborah K]

The republican party is probably the best example I can give you.

Since I am a non-partisan who rails against the party system, then this example is meaningless to me.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I've been part of a coalition in the past. We, in the border security movement, formed one in 2007 to stop the amnesty bill. You don't push rules on others, etc. Think of it as an alliance with another nation. The objective being that you have eachother's back.

I totally agree, reason being why I was wondering if the CFL would be fine with that or not and if not what grassroots platform are we going to use to form these alliances from.

[Deborah K]

This is why I think it would be best if people just took care of their own backyards first. Everyone can do that, we can design a strategy that can be duplicated in most any city. We won't have to worry about statewide or national efforts to trickle down and we would be able to accomplish more in MORE cities this way.

Harder to stop us this way as well.

This should be done in conjunction with a coalition. As Ben Franklin said and I paraphrase: "If we don't hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately".

[Nate K]

Since I am a non-partisan who rails against the party system, then this example is meaningless to me.

We need extremists not loafers.

[Truth Warrior]

This should be done in conjunction with a coalition. As Ben Franklin said and I paraphrase: "If we don't hang together, we will most assuredly hang seperately". So being hanged together is better? :D

[Deborah K]

We need extremists not loafers.

Yes! Agreed.

[Deborah K]

So being hanged together is better? :D


hehe. I don't wanna die alooooone!!

[Truth Warrior]

hehe. I don't wanna die alooooone!! I'll hold your hand. ;)

[Gosmokesome]

Yes we should all act as individuals and forget about 'The Movement' for a second. Think what YOU can do for YOURSELF and your loved ones liberty and freedom. Micro level, not one giant national movement just waiting to be infiltrated and corrupted but instead a hundred million individuals making their own moves to enhance and maximize their freedom as best as they can.

Ask yourself what can you do for yourself to help increase your own freedom. Buy a gun? Move to New Hampshire? We don't need a national movement. By taking care of all the little things the big things will happen MAGICALLY by themselves.

[Truth Warrior]

Yes we should all act as individuals and forget about 'The Movement' for a second. Think what YOU can do for YOURSELF and your loved ones liberty and freedom. Micro level, not one giant national movement just waiting to be infiltrated and corrupted but instead a hundred million individuals making their own moves to enhance and maximize their freedom as best as they can.

Ask yourself what can you do for yourself to help increase your own freedom. Buy a gun? Move to New Hampshire? We don't need a national movement. By taking care of all the little things the big things will happen MAGICALLY by themselves. Bingo!! Have a cookie. :D

[Deborah K]

Yes we should all act as individuals and forget about 'The Movement' for a second. Think what YOU can do for YOURSELF and your loved ones liberty and freedom. Micro level, not one giant national movement just waiting to be infiltrated and corrupted but instead a hundred million individuals making their own moves to enhance and maximize their freedom as best as they can.

Ask yourself what can you do for yourself to help increase your own freedom. Buy a gun? Move to New Hampshire? We don't need a national movement. By taking care of all the little things the big things will happen MAGICALLY by themselves.

As I stated, we should do both. WE should be the ones infiltrating the gov't! Think of how they did it during the revolution - it wasn't everyone for themselves. Remember the original Minutemen? What about the underground railroad?

[Deborah K]

I'll hold your hand. ;)


Awwww! What a guy. :D

[Truth Warrior]

As I stated, we should do both. WE should be the ones infiltrating the gov't! Think of how they did it during the revolution - it wasn't everyone for themselves. Remember the original Minutemen? What about the underground railroad? Let's see the Redcoats were organized. And by and large the revolutionaries were guerrillas. Hmmm? Think USSR v. Afghanistan, USA v. Viet Nam and now Iraq. ;)

[JamesButabi]

I feel there are many many important and well organized elements currently out there as stated above. The problem is that people attach themselves to specific organizations, websites, or groups and temporarily ignore the big picture.

Ron Paul was the rope that lassod in all of these groups and elements, providing quick satisfaction for liberty enthusiasts, and a common goal. Now that the election is over, many of these groups have segregated once again. The C4L was the attempt to keep everything connected and moving (which if you look into it, is doing a decent job). Yet people still scattered around and the movement has slowed.

While the C4L continues to grow at a good pace, RTR is still active, liberty blogs flow, ron paul meetup groups still exist, endthefed was a popular showing, YAL is showing quick growth, and grassroots is moving ahead quietly. There is no single unifying attribute without Ron Paul at the moment. Regardless of age, this is why I hope he runs again in 2012. For the passion, the unity, and education it would bring.

[Deborah K]

I feel there are many many important and well organized elements currently out there as stated above. The problem is that people attach themselves to specific organizations, websites, or groups and temporarily ignore the big picture.

Ron Paul was the rope that lassod in all of these groups and elements, providing quick satisfaction for liberty enthusiasts, and a common goal. Now that the election is over, many of these groups have segregated once again. The C4L was the attempt to keep everything connected and moving (which if you look into it, is doing a decent job). Yet people still scattered around and the movement has slowed.

While the C4L continues to grow at a good pace, RTR is still active, liberty blogs flow, ron paul meetup groups still exist, endthefed was a popular showing, and various groups still work, There is no single unifying attribute without Ron Paul at the moment. Regardless of age, this is why I hope he runs again in 2012. For the passion, the unity, and education it would bring.

Point being, every movement needs a leader?

[Deborah K]

Let's see the Redcoats were organized. And by and large the revolutionaries were guerrillas. Hmmm? Think USSR v. Afghanistan, USA v. Viet Nam and now Iraq. ;)

And then there was David and what's his name...

[Deborah K]

Okay, I would like to know who the smartass was that responded to the poll by stating that he/she doesn't answer polls! :D

[JamesButabi]

Point being, every movement needs a leader?

It certainly is the strongest focal point :)

[heavenlyboy34]

And then there was David and what's his name...

you mean Prometheus? He's a myth too. ;)

[Deborah K]

you mean Prometheus? He's a myth too. ;)


NOOOoooo! Goliath - you nimrod! :D

[Deborah K]

It certainly is the strongest focal point :)

Yes, I agree. It is human nature to migrate toward those with leadership qualities.

[wizardwatson]

Yes, I agree. It is human nature to migrate toward those with leadership qualities.

"In the long history of martial arts, the instinct to follow and imitate seems to be inherent in most martial artists, instructors and students alike. This is partly due to human tendency and partly because of the steep traditions behind multiple patterns of styles. Consequently, to find a refreshing, original, master teacher is a rarity. The need for a pointer of the way echoes."

-Bruce Lee

Replace 'martial arts' with liberty movement and martial artist with libertarians. It's applicable if you know of Bruce. His philosophy was based on Taoism, which was one of the roots of Libertarianism.

The Ancient Chinese Libertarian Tradition - Murray Rothbard (http://mises.org/story/1967)

[wizardwatson]

Bet you didn't know there was a connection between Rothbard and Bruce didya. :D

It's a lot deeper than that folks. ;)

[thechitowncubs]

I say we should initiate a Ron Paul Forums central planning rule that says: Unless you have something productive to report, get it out of Grassroots Central and get off your ass :)

Hehe.

[JamesButabi]

Bet you didn't know there was a connection between Rothbard and Bruce didya. :D

It's a lot deeper than that folks. ;)


Thats pretty sick,

To further my point before, I want you to picture this day...... A Ron Paul video randomly appears on C4Ls front page. In the video Ron solemnly thanks the revolution and tells then to keep goingstrong........BUT out of nowhere he claims the liberty message must be heard on the big stage once again... "I will lead this revolution into the white house in 2012!"

Now think about how you would feel personally......then think about what the internet and the forementioned internet sites would look like on that day. I think your mental picture would speak for itself how important this aspect is.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

We have a plan in Minnesota. Have each of you been working with your state and district coordinators to develop your own plans?

We're also using the C4L setup, and that's been helpful, though we should be making an effort to use it more.

[RevolutionSD]

We need to abandon government altogether.
There's nothing moral about a system that robs from people and kills people.
We can argue about the fed and the income tax and the war until we're blue in the face, but nothing will change until we address the argument from morality.

Having said that, Schiff has some big plans so stay tuned...I think the imploding economy could help us get our ideas out into the public debate, which can't be a bad thing.

[Truth Warrior]

We need to abandon government altogether.
There's nothing moral about a system that robs from people and kills people.
We can argue about the fed and the income tax and the war until we're blue in the face, but nothing will change until we address the argument from morality.

Having said that, Schiff has some big plans so stay tuned...I think the imploding economy could help us get our ideas out into the public debate, which can't be a bad thing. Bingo! Have a cookie. :D

[LiveToWin]

Thats pretty sick,

To further my point before, I want you to picture this day...... A Ron Paul video randomly appears on C4Ls front page. In the video Ron solemnly thanks the revolution and tells then to keep goingstrong........BUT out of nowhere he claims the liberty message must be heard on the big stage once again... "I will lead this revolution into the white house in 2012!"

Now think about how you would feel personally......then think about what the internet and the forementioned internet sites would look like on that day. I think your mental picture would speak for itself how important this aspect is.

That would be Amazing. If that happened I would actually have hope again that this all might end peacefully.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I've been part of a coalition in the past. We, in the border security movement, formed one in 2007 to stop the amnesty bill. You don't push rules on others, etc. Think of it as an alliance with another nation. The objective being that you have eachother's back.

And that's the main problem with the C4L

And the reason so many are not signing up.

-t

[RevolutionSD]

Bingo! Have a cookie. :D

Thanks TW! :D

When does the mass CD start?

[Deborah K]

We need to abandon government altogether.
There's nothing moral about a system that robs from people and kills people.
We can argue about the fed and the income tax and the war until we're blue in the face, but nothing will change until we address the argument from morality.

Having said that, Schiff has some big plans so stay tuned...I think the imploding economy could help us get our ideas out into the public debate, which can't be a bad thing.

What we need to do is dismantle tptb.

[wizardwatson]

I feel there are many many important and well organized elements currently out there as stated above. The problem is that people attach themselves to specific organizations, websites, or groups and temporarily ignore the big picture.

Ron Paul was the rope that lassod in all of these groups and elements, providing quick satisfaction for liberty enthusiasts, and a common goal. Now that the election is over, many of these groups have segregated once again. The C4L was the attempt to keep everything connected and moving (which if you look into it, is doing a decent job). Yet people still scattered around and the movement has slowed.

While the C4L continues to grow at a good pace, RTR is still active, liberty blogs flow, ron paul meetup groups still exist, endthefed was a popular showing, YAL is showing quick growth, and grassroots is moving ahead quietly. There is no single unifying attribute without Ron Paul at the moment. Regardless of age, this is why I hope he runs again in 2012. For the passion, the unity, and education it would bring.

Ron Paul was not the unifying force, he was only the symbol of it in the minds of many. It was liberty that moved his supporters. This is from his own words. Ron Paul is not going to win in 2012 unless of course there is some huge liberty uprising between now and then, that I'm not even sure God himself could conjure up.

The only reason I even became involved with the Ron Paul movement is because a friend emailed me about him and I found out he was anti-fed. That is all I needed to know. Everything else was icing, as I knew if he was anti-Fed then he understood much.

The unifying force of liberty isn't going away, but if we don't unite around a PLAN the supporters of this branch of liberty might go away.

[Truth Warrior]

Thanks TW! :D

When does the mass CD start? You're welcome! Enjoy!

Well first we need to get a mass. ;) How did Gandhi do it? :) Perhaps things still need to get much worse. :eek:

[fr33domfightr]

We're all over the place. The liberty movement needs to align with already established pro-liberty orgs. like the NRA, MCDC, JBS, Grassfire.org and the like. We need a coalition of sorts, to start with.

I really like this idea. We're almost like a bunch of cats! Yes, we can do things individually, and we should. But together, with common goals, we can have a more noticeable effect working toward government reform. For example, maybe the NRA could use some help pushing 2nd Amendment rights. If we feel compelled, we might be able to help. Conversely, if we want to push our End The Fed events, we could hopefully count on the NRA membership to try and learn about the Fed, and participate if they feel its to their benefit.

By working together, our numbers will appear much larger to the media. All these various groups actually do have a lot in common.


FF

[wizardwatson]

You're welcome! Enjoy!

Well first we need to get a mass. ;) How did Gandhi do it? :) Perhaps things still need to get much worse. :eek:

People give Ghandi too much credit. Most people in India don't have as much of a iconic image of him as the rest of the world.

Bhagat Singh was instrumental in starting the revolt against the British, and Subhas Chandra Bose was the guy who finished the job. Gandhi was the milquetoast lawyer in the middle who got all the credit.

The other two were freedom fighters.

Granted he died in the process, so I think the martyr status did more for his image that might otherwise have occurred.

[wizardwatson]

Well so far 8.57% of those who answered the poll are liars. :D

[Deborah K]

Well so far 8.57% of those who answered the poll are liars. :D


LOL, I noticed that too. Jokesters they be.

[Truth Warrior]

People give Ghandi too much credit. Most people in India don't have as much of a iconic image of him as the rest of the world.

Bhagat Singh was instrumental in starting the revolt against the British, and Subhas Chandra Bose was the guy who finished the job. Gandhi was the milquetoast lawyer in the middle who got all the credit.

The other two were freedom fighters.

Granted he died in the process, so I think the martyr status did more for his image that might otherwise have occurred. I have to give him credit as a spiritual leader and national focal point. ;)

http://www.sfheart.com/Gandhi.html (http://www.sfheart.com/Gandhi.html)

[Athan]

I say horde up any allies and be highly selective of our leaders. Fuck their leaders since they aren't worth squat.. but we want their vote. :D

[heavenlyboy34]

what we need to do is dismantle tptb.

+1776. :)

[wizardwatson]

What we need to do is dismantle tptb.

This is an end, a goal. Strategy and planning deals with the means to achieve those goals.

All goals apart from the means are illusions.