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Harald
05-30-2007, 10:16 AM
We have Ron Paul supporters (or just interested people) coming from very different philosophical / political backgrounds.

I noticed that, ocassionally, we have heated arguments between liberals and libertarians (as in "Negative things about Paul" thread), where, for example, BuddyRey mentioned a few things in post #94 that made libertarians jump on him and started bumper sticker fight. ie. taxes is the price of freedom vs taxation is slavery.

I don't believe those kind of arguments can move somebody from their current position, since both sides are offering rather simplictic arguments.

I propose to have a section on our forum where Ron Paul supporters coming from different political sides can have a discussion on taxation, civil rights, free trade, ... focusing on a narrow topic, rather than doing scattershot discussion that covers 15 different topics in one thread "Negative things about Paul" being one example.

Also, in the "Criticizing Ron Paul" thread, we have a topic that is worth discussing, namely http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul188.html (The Trouble With Forced Integration), where Paul questions the common wisdom on Civil Rights act).
That can also be taken out and debated separately on "Debate" subforum.

JoshLowry
05-30-2007, 10:23 AM
I'd like to see everyone work on getting Ron Paul elected rather than have people sit on their computers and debate with one another. That's the main focus and the reason this forum was created.

People are spinning their wheels if they come here to chit-chat. No offense, but there are many more important things as a group that we could be doing.

If Ron Paul gets elected President I'll make as many debate forums as you want me to make.

Dave
05-30-2007, 10:31 AM
I'd like to see everyone work on getting Ron Paul elected rather than have people sit on their computers and debate with one another. That's the main focus and the reason this forum was created.

People are spinning their wheels if they come here to chit-chat. No offense, but there are many more important things as a group that we could be doing.

If Ron Paul gets elected President I'll make as many debate forums as you want me to make.

Good answer, Josh. Let me suggest this for all posters:

Before making any post, please consider whether it furthers our goal of promoting Dr. Paul's candidacy.
If someone makes a post that you feel is contradictory to #1 then IGNORE IT. Don't feel compelled to respond, which only elevates the issue and makes it MORE counter-productive.
Spend as much time (or more preferably) promoting Dr. Paul offline as you do online.

drinkbleach
05-30-2007, 10:34 AM
I see. In that case I'll debate things about Ron Paul on other forums then. My mistake I suppose:rolleyes:

Harald
05-30-2007, 10:36 AM
My reasoning for this proposal was that when there is a slogan fest between, say Liberal vs Libertarians in one of the threads, those few coming from democratic side might get discourated to participate and support Ron Paul.

So it is more of a "Liberal outreach" place where unconventional libertarian position can be reconciled with the years of exposure to MSM.

RP needs a broad coalition crossing the party lines to win, we should not piss off supporters that are not libertarians (yet :D)

I understand your reluctance in making the debate forum and I am only mildly in favor of creating such. Though, I have feeling that at some point something needs to be done to allow Ron Paul supporters to reconcile their differences in political philosophies in a form that encourages their participation and not driving them away

Harald
05-30-2007, 10:38 AM
I see. In that case I'll debate things about Ron Paul on other forums then. My mistake I suppose

See, I told you so. It is driving people away ;)

Bryan
05-30-2007, 11:16 AM
I've been thinking about something similar to this but have it more of a "Q&A" for people that are investigating different candidates (and not Ron Paul supporters) and looking for information but have questions- there is no doubt that some of the "guests" we have here fall into this camp. In this regard discussions can turn into a bit of a debate but it has a purpose of us helping to show others why Ron Paul is the best choice. I think this has value, I'll agree with Josh in that us debating amongst ourselves isn't going to win the election.

Shmuel Spade
05-31-2007, 01:28 AM
A quote from one of my posts in the thread mentioned above, "Negative Things About Paul":


Lastly, I don't see much point to a thread in which we all list instances of our disagreement with Dr. Paul, as it can only serve to shatter our delicate cross ideological/cross political union with accusations and corrections. Stating that I disagree with Dr. Paul in a few matters legal, historical, and factual, as well as disagreeing with him on immigration, and state's rights in regards to, abortion, drugs, and gay marriage, is basically meaningless. If anything, a thread focusing specifically on defending particular views Dr. Paul has would be far more constructive. With that his supporters could find the best ways and phrases to answer the inevitable questions that would pop up in people's minds during our advocacy of his campaign.

JaylieWoW
05-31-2007, 07:25 AM
A quote from one of my posts in the thread mentioned above, "Negative Things About Paul":

Quote:
Lastly, I don't see much point to a thread in which we all list instances of our disagreement with Dr. Paul, as it can only serve to shatter our delicate cross ideological/cross political union with accusations and corrections. Stating that I disagree with Dr. Paul in a few matters legal, historical, and factual, as well as disagreeing with him on immigration, and state's rights in regards to, abortion, drugs, and gay marriage, is basically meaningless. If anything, a thread focusing specifically on defending particular views Dr. Paul has would be far more constructive. With that his supporters could find the best ways and phrases to answer the inevitable questions that would pop up in people's minds during our advocacy of his campaign.:

I agree! I think it is important to talk about the negative criticsms against Ron Paul so we can educate one another on some of the finer points.

I have an example I will share with you regarding the "blowback" in the debate.

Someone in my family brought up to me how Paul stuck his foot in his mouth at the debate with Giuliani. I countered that on the contrary it was Giuliani that made hisself look like a fool. Of course I received an indignant (you're crazy) kind of scoff at saying thus so I pressed further. I insisted that Giuliani has made a great deal of money speaking as an "expert" on security matters. I told this person that even if Giuliani did not agree with the "blowback" contention, as a security expert he should have at least been familiar with the concept. The reply I got was, "well, I don't know anything about blowback", to which I responded, "I'm sure you don't, but nor would I expect you to since you don't tour the country getting paid to speak as a "security" expert."

Needless to say the subject was immediately changed to illegal immigration and the latest "amnesty" bill. ;)

lucky
05-31-2007, 07:38 AM
While I agree that we all should focus on getting Ron Paul elected. There should also be debates if we want. Maybe not on this main forum but another. There is the issues forum that has most of the issues in it and we can talk back and forth in them and get different viewpoints.

It is a motley crew in here and we have come from all over the political spectrum and I am astonished in that we have not degenerated into juvenile crap ...yet.

I see many asking questions that someone else is able to answer. I myself am trying to understand why certain people of a political persuasion is on board with Ron Paul. This will help us all out in the future. As we go on and after the next debates and so on we are gonna get a lot more people here and it will be useful that us that are early to the forums to help the new people that come in. The new ones are gonna need to feel welcomed and that they are important. We will be able to do that by understanding all these differences now rather than later.