A Grassroots Portal Project

[ronpaulhawaii]

Following are preliminary discussions regarding www.libertyforest.com (http://www.libertyforest.com/).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii
As David Weigel stated in Reason Magazine, the RP grassroots are “inefficiently organized”.

It is obvious that CFL will not be a central point for the for-seeable future and I think that gives us an opportunity. I believe they are building a valuable tool, but will never come close to harnessing the power of our full spectrum grassroots.

What is going on with LibertyForest.com ?

The grassroots needs a portal to the outside world. A place most anyone can feel comfortable recommending to a recruit. A welcoming and informative front door to the most comprehensive library of liberty information on the net.

I think we could have fun with this as a community; volunteers, committees, polls, etc...

Pure Grassroots :D

Do you guys mind if I float some ideas in GC? :eek:

much aloha :)

m

``````````````````````````
Originally Posted by JoshLowry

I'm game. I'd be open to just about anything.

Bryan and I had talked about doing sort of a homepage with this vbulletin plugin: http://www.vbadvanced.com/

````````````````````
Originally Posted by Bryan

Yes, there is a window open- and there are things that can be done. Adding vbadvanced and blogs would be a first start.

I keep wondering if there is value in trying to build other alliances. Maybe talk with / work with Ron at freeople.com to see if we can work one something to get some of his campaign support / credit card processing features for vBulletin that would be win-win for all.


`````````````````````````
Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii

:cool:

here is a draft I've been working on...



This sentence irks me...



So the Paul people are out there, and online... but they are either organized ineffectively or treated like a virus that takes over "real" organizations. - http://www.reason.com/blog/show/130261.html OK, so it is a bit of both, but the first, "organized ineffectively", is our responsibility and if we tackle that, the second will pretty much cure itself. CFL is building a powerful toolset, but not the grassroots center many of us hoped it would be. Upon reflection I can see where a single organization could never hope to encompass and serve the entire full spectrum grassroots. The problem is that our power is in our full-spectrum qualities. While I am not looking for a silver bullet or a smoking gun, I am looking for anything that will help us focus and grow.

One thing I think would help is a "front end". A combination, welcome center/Library/Hub. Not a new community; a showcase and archive. Someplace that most everyone can recommend to a new prospect, use on handouts, etc. A welcoming and informative front door to the most comprehensive library of liberty information on the net.

I have an active imagination and can see variations on this theme that would rock. It could be built/managed by committee and poll and that would help us practice organizational skills...

I think it could be called www.LibertyForest.com (http://www.libertyforest.com/)
I agree that some projects can be absorbed and others built on/in. Freeople, OpCatHerder, Freedoms Ground... I definitely think we need to build alliances...

A welcoming showcase/library/hub...

What do you guys think of creation/management by committee/poll from our membership?

````````````````````````
Originally Posted by Bryan

Big thumbs up! I really like it, the idea / concept, etc. I like the idea of creating management by committee/poll from our membership - but by those who produce. I support OpCatHerder & Freedoms Ground.. I know Nathan (tangent) wants to create a solid grassroots org. FG also has some great promise and I have talked with Katherine about alliances.

I've tried to look at what is most important for me to work on-- I keep seeing our community has as best since it has history of a solid community. If we put more into it, it will grow.

Also- we can do things that CFL can't, nor would want to.

``````````````````````
Originally Posted by JoshLowry

I think the best thing to do is just install the software and see if the grassroots embraces it as our first simple step. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if we let all of the members of RPF elect a board of some type to have input on the Liberty Forest home page.

I'm not sure how to go about the alliances, that's almost a seperate issue. I was disappointed that DailyPaul/RPF/BTM were not supported at all by the CFL. I understand not totally endorsing, but it's like we don't even exist.

I don't plan on just turning the forums over, but here is one possibility: I think an alliance in the form of something called like "Online Liberty Alliance" could be formed and it would be a footer put on the bottom of every web page for every site that is in the group. I wouldn't call it the Liberty Forest Alliance as it would need to be separate and not automatically include LF. Maybe have a quad-annual voting where we limit it to ten websites. Unpopular sites would get knocked off and the popular sites would stay on.

Some type of either membership or board would vote on the first few sites and then when new sites came along they would be voted on to be included every three months. The pool would eventually grow over time, but it keeps all the grassroots with similiar ideas somewhat intertwined. If the CFL wanted to be included then they would have to display the footer as well. There would need to be some kind of document that the OLA abides by similiar to the "we agree" thing that Ron Paul had the four third party candidates agree to.

Text of we agree: http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/others/weagree091008.html (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eaction/2008/others/weagree091008.html)

`````````````````````
Yep, that's the idea. This idea was born mulling over the developments regarding CFL and a thought that the best way to get them to play along is to pass them by. I agree that RPFs/DP/FG/BTM were all treated shabbily by the CFL elite and, once again, they have blown a great opportunity.

I do believe that Andrew means well and would like to see CFL integrate better into the movement. They are building a decent tool for community organizing and it would be a plus to have them in our fold. Key words there are "in our fold", (not the other way around...)

I really like the OLA idea and was wondering how to do that...

``````````````````

Thoughts ?

[acptulsa]

Interesting.

It seems to me that many of us are caustic enough that it shouldn't be a blog or else it might not be very welcoming. At least, I've seen unpleasant things happen to n00bs a time or two around here... It also seems to me that there's a wealth of good information and good presentations buried in the archives of this site, and that a huge, comprehensive and informative 'welcome to the fight to preserve liberty' site could be created just on this material alone. Perhaps we should track back and hunt down our favorite posts?

Of course, this isn't a source of organization yet. But then, if all politics is local we'd just be reinventing the wheel (or reinventing the meetup). It would need to at least link to some source of action, however. But it seems to me that with the wealth of material we have here we should be able to set up such a 'welcome portal' with speed and ease.

[JVParkour]

That is the whole problem right now. The masses of Freedom lovers are ready to go, but there is no unifying force directing and collaborating with us. I think CFL has great potential, and a gateway/ welcoming page with lots of good info would be essential. I also think that a forum is a must. I try to post suggestions on this forum and they are not taken seriously, but at CFL they could be more PROJECT ORIENTED, which i think would help considerably.
JV

[thechitowncubs]

Does anyone need help creating it, graphics, etc?

[ronpaulhawaii]

Interesting.

It seems to me that many of us are caustic enough that it shouldn't be a blog or else it might not be very welcoming. At least, I've seen unpleasant things happen to n00bs a time or two around here... It also seems to me that there's a wealth of good information and good presentations buried in the archives of this site, and that a huge, comprehensive and informative 'welcome to the fight to preserve liberty' site could be created just on this material alone. Perhaps we should track back and hunt down our favorite posts?

Of course, this isn't a source of organization yet. But then, if all politics is local we'd just be reinventing the wheel (or reinventing the meetup). It would need to at least link to some source of action, however. But it seems to me that with the wealth of material we have here we should be able to set up such a 'welcome portal' with speed and ease.

Yes, the archive here is a treasure trove...

I agree that blogs could be a part of the portal, but should be a link from a basic welcoming page.

I don't see this as re-inventing a wheel. I see this as collecting the wheels we have and building a bus.

The first thing I am interested in are discussions of management issues. I think for this to be effective it should be as inclusive as possible.


That is the whole problem right now. The masses of Freedom lovers are ready to go, but there is no unifying force directing and collaborating with us. I think CFL has great potential, and a gateway/ welcoming page with lots of good info would be essential. I also think that a forum is a must. I try to post suggestions on this forum and they are not taken seriously, but at CFL they could be more PROJECT ORIENTED, which i think would help considerably.
JV

CFL is a different animal and, as it seems now, will never be able to do what we can. CFL is building a decent community organizing tool, but their policies prevent them from being a broad-spectrum grassroots org that can harness the power of the true grassroots.

[acptulsa]

So, should this portal be more why we're concerned for liberty, what we think and why, or a showcase of what we've done and are doing? Or some combination thereof? What proportions? How much should we categorize this information? We know we have a great resource in the archive of this forum--what parts should we cherry pick?

When I succumbed to this line of thinking there was no 'net whatsoever. Someone think back to when you first started feeling the effects of that red pill and tell me what a welcome portal should be. What parts of this forum were most helpful to you when you first appeared? Because I had ingested that red pill before Josh was born, much less this site.

[yongrel]

Sounds spiffy to me.

Randy should get a blog. Now.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Does anyone need help creating it, graphics, etc?

Yes, thanks :)

I envision this being managed by volunteers with input/direction from our entire membership.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I like this idea!

Lets do it!

-t

[acptulsa]

Yes, the archive here is a treasure trove...

I agree that blogs could be a part of the portal, but should be a link from a basic welcoming page.

I don't see this as re-inventing a wheel. I see this as collecting the wheels we have and building a bus.

The first thing I am interested in are discussions of management issues. I think for this to be effective it should be as inclusive as possible.

Well, to quote Dubya's Daddy, we do need to get the Vision Thing together pretty quick as well. I definitely see links to CFL for tools and RPF for discussion. Input would be good, but I'd be for heavy moderation so the new site is all about not argument but action. So, let calls to action be posted there and let the whys be debated here--that site is not for encouraging or discouraging but for organizing.

But I can sure see it being set up as a libertarian library. I certainly trust the owners, administrators and moderators here. Can we just search this archive for the posts we learned the most from and nominate them in this thread, and let the staff sort them out? Is the staff willing?

[ronpaulhawaii]

So, should this portal be more why we're concerned for liberty, what we think and why, or a showcase of what we've done and are doing? Or some combination thereof? What proportions? How much should we categorize this information? We know we have a great resource in the archive of this forum--what parts should we cherry pick?

When I succumbed to this line of thinking there was no 'net whatsoever. Someone think back to when you first started feeling the effects of that red pill and tell me what a welcome portal should be. What parts of this forum were most helpful to you when you first appeared? Because I had ingested that red pill before Josh was born, much less this site.

I imagine a combination. Basically, what I am hoping we build is a simple and welcoming front page that links to the greater movement. We could have "featured" causes, "featured" blogs, "featured videos. Resource links, educational links, "best of" links, etc.

The "open source" nature of the forum was the most attractive to me...


Sounds spiffy to me.

Randy should get a blog. Now.

+1


I like this idea!

Lets do it!

-t

Thought you'd it :D. I expect OCH will integrate well into the mix

[Nate K]

nice thread hawaii..

To be appealing to newcomers we'd have to consider the prospect of a decent design. I'll volunteer to help in any way, I love the library idea.

Conza will be a big asset lol.

[Deborah K]

Use Liberty Forest as a way to form a coalition with other orgs. Just a suggestion.

[thechitowncubs]

Keep it simple stupid.

We should focus on extreme simplicity with an appealing look for all demographics, the CFL website is an example of what not to do.

[ronpaulhawaii]

nice thread hawaii..

To be appealing to newcomers we'd have to consider the prospect of a decent design. I'll volunteer to help in any way, I love the library idea.

Conza will be a big asset lol.

+1

Thanks x 2


Use Liberty Forest as a way to form a coalition with other orgs. Just a suggestion.

Yes, The OLA - (online liberty alliance) like what Josh suggested in the OP


Keep it simple stupid.

We should focus on extreme simplicity with an appealing look for all demographics, the CFL website is an example of what not to do.

Yep, I agree on the KIS aspect...

Maybe a design contest ?

[Nate K]

Maybe a design contest ?

I second that !

[Deborah K]

Yes, The OLA - (online liberty alliance) like what Josh suggested in the OP


Sorry I missed that. :o

[liberteebell]

Use Liberty Forest as a way to form a coalition with other orgs. Just a suggestion.

+1

[JoshLowry]

I think it'd be best to start on some kind of Online Liberty Alliance. Liberty Forest is something these forums can turn into with a front page and what not, but is Ron running in 2012?

We need some funds to pay a coder. I'd be happy to go the volunteer root, but I don't know if we have any polished web guys (or gals) who would contribute for free.

I could send an email out and see what that turns up.

[Nate K]

I think it'd be best to start on some kind of Online Liberty Alliance. Liberty Forest is something these forums can turn into with a front page and what not, but is Ron running in 2012?

We need some funds to pay a coder. I'd be happy to go the volunteer root, but I don't know if we have any polished web guys (or gals) who would contribute for free.

I could send an email out and see what that turns up.

Chip-in at worst?

[Bryan]

A few thoughts.

I think starting off with a good "send to" page for those new to the ideas of liberty would be great. Start off simple on the main page, then break it down into topics (sound money, civil liberties, health freedom) and explain the current problems with each then show how this results from bad government policies. At the end of each section provide a link to the related liberty forest forum "for your own discussion on this".

We need some guiding principles for the org and for anyone who is to assume some leadership. For example, IMO, to keep it pure and true it should be a totally non-paid grassroots org that seeks no profit for anyone. Transparency in income vs. expenses is good. IMO, we need a model that people will feel happy to contribute to and not feel later like they or their work is being taken advantage of. We need to be like an open-source resource for the freedom movement, maybe write a public license (GNU style) that we can put all works under. We need to define these principles, ones that can never change. We need leaders who will openly pledge to support those principles.

I agree the archive here is a treasure trove, and I've always tried to treat it accordingly-- which is also a large part of why it is of great value to POST TOPICS IN THE BEST FIT SUB-FORUM so the archives can be as useful as possible and not just a big blob.

In a sorts, RPFs has always been the anti-thesis of "all politics is local" - the community here has always allowed for sharing of best practices, information and talent with collaborating on projects. We're not a meet-up replacement, just a world wide gather place (and have had solid international contributors that have ended up making a difference on various local levels). We can use and leverage the CFL tools (which of course we'll all basically totally support) but our organization model is different (open source and grassroots), and as I said in PM, there are some areas they aren't going to want to touch that we can.

I talked to Liberty Eagle some last weekend, she had some good ideas- hope she will post (or I will for her).

[acptulsa]

So, does it provide a basis for organization itself or does it provide a wealth of links to both informational sites and action sites? And does it merely have a nice little intro and links from there or does it provide an information digest?

If it is an information digest, the good stuff in these archives needs to be sorted and some of it needs to be repackaged for the site. In addition, we'll need to decide what groups we link to where. A link to the CFL and the meetup site (assuming most of the local groups are using it) could go at the bottom of the statement of purpose and a history of this grassroots movement. The CFL could be listed as an 'information' link and the meetup connection as an 'action' link...

And if we're going to package information, we do need most of us to sort through the archives using the search functions here and try to find our favorites so we don't have to start from scratch. This alone could make all the difference in how well it turns out.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I think it'd be best to start on some kind of Online Liberty Alliance. Liberty Forest is something these forums can turn into with a front page and what not, but is Ron running in 2012?

We need some funds to pay a coder. I'd be happy to go the volunteer route, but I don't know if we have any polished web guys (or gals) who would contribute for free.

I could send an email out and see what that turns up.

Re: OLA - what groups do people think we could start reaching out to?

Re: RPFs - I don't know that anything needs to change here. What I envision is RPFs being part of LF...

Re: coders - I have seen people repeatedly talk of how we could do better with volunteers. Can we? Perhaps a team? I know two I could ask, for starters... Perhaps the pay route is better, need more discussion...


A few thoughts.

I think starting off with a good "send to" page for those new to the ideas of liberty would be great. Start off simple on the main page, then break it down into topics (sound money, civil liberties, health freedom) and explain the current problems with each then show how this results from bad government policies. At the end of each section provide a link to the related liberty forest forum "for your own discussion on this".

We need some guiding principles for the org and for anyone who is to assume some leadership. For example, IMO, to keep it pure and true it should be a totally non-paid grassroots org that seeks no profit for anyone. Transparency in income vs. expenses is good. IMO, we need a model that people will feel happy to contribute to and not feel later like they or their work is being taken advantage of. We need to be like an open-source resource for the freedom movement, maybe write a public license (GNU style) that we can put all works under. We need to define these principles, ones that can never change. We need leaders who will openly pledge to support those principles.

I agree the archive here is a treasure trove, and I've always tried to treat it accordingly-- which is also a large part of why it is of great value to POST TOPICS IN THE BEST FIT SUB-FORUM so the archives can be as useful as possible and not just a big blob.

In a sorts, RPFs has always been the anti-thesis of "all politics is local" - the community here has always allowed for sharing of best practices, information and talent with collaborating on projects. We're not a meet-up replacement, just a world wide gather place (and have had solid international contributors that have ended up making a difference on various local levels). We can use and leverage the CFL tools (which of course we'll all basically totally support) but our organization model is different (open source and grassroots), and as I said in PM, there are some areas they aren't going to want to touch that we can.

I talked to Liberty Eagle some last weekend, she had some good ideas- hope she will post (or I will for her).

+2010

:)

[acptulsa]

Are we to the point where someone can say, "This is what we need" and fire that starting gun?

[tangent4ronpaul]

So, does it provide a basis for organization itself or does it provide a wealth of links to both informational sites and action sites? And does it merely have a nice little intro and links from there or does it provide an information digest?

If it is an information digest, the good stuff in these archives needs to be sorted and some of it needs to be repackaged for the site. In addition, we'll need to decide what groups we link to where. A link to the CFL and the meetup site (assuming most of the local groups are using it) could go at the bottom of the statement of purpose and a history of this grassroots movement. The CFL could be listed as an 'information' link and the meetup connection as an 'action' link...

And if we're going to package information, we do need most of us to sort through the archives using the search functions here and try to find our favorites so we don't have to start from scratch. This alone could make all the difference in how well it turns out.

We tried to do that before - but it never really took off:

http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Grassroots_r3VOLution_Field_Manual

Most of the current content is under getting the word out.

Be happy to try jump starting it again!

-t

[ronpaulhawaii]

Are we to the point where someone can say, "This is what we need" and fire that starting gun?

((((BANG)))) :eek::D

slow, and steady wins many races.

I'd imagine we could start a new sub-forum in "grassroots projects" for collecting the "best of" info from the archives.



We tried to do that before - but it never really took off:

http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Grassroots_r3VOLution_Field_Manual

Most of the current content is under getting the word out.

Be happy to try jump starting it again!

-t

One of my prime motivations for this project is the under utilization of our vast resources, such as OCH. The question is how do we best integrate/consolidate?

I'd like to see an absolutely kick-ass "front door"; a piece of art, a thing of beauty :D. Something even our counterparts will have to admit is "well done"...

We need to decide what kind of elements we want.

(The following is simply thrown out as a starting point)

Logo (contest?)

Welcome Statement (something that will draw in the broadest range of people, hopefully a group effort on the composition...)

Video?

Pages


Issues (as Bryan mentioned)
Resources (like OCH)
Projects (like End the Fed)
News (select stories and a blogroll)
Forums (Here, perhaps with links to forums of OLA members)
About (never forget the about page:))
???

Featured (daily?)


project (like The Boston Tea Party 08 (http://www.bostonteaparty08.com), this weekend;))
blog
video
pic
post
member
???

What else, or less?

[JamesButabi]

Personally I find the vast array of Liberty, revolution, and Dr Paul sights almost overwhelming. While Ive always toyed with the idea of an alliance type site I want to raise a different method.

As fun as it is to register to 10 different sites, and visit each independently daily or weekly to comment, suggest, and see whats going on in the grassroots......wouldn't it be splendid if the owners of these sites would get together, figure out what worked and what didnt on each site, and with the help of the grassroots, incorporate the best elements of each site into a central hub.

One place, one name, one mass usergroup, all managed cohesively by the people who have brought this grassroots movement to where it is now.

I don't know about you, but the last thing I would want is to sign up to yet another site. I think its time to combine efforts, and redirect domains into the middle.

[JoshLowry]

There seem to be two projects that are being talked about here.

One is an alliance site, and the other is a portal.

James recommends people combine their sites. That won't happen. People enjoy running their websites and having control over their individual projects that they have started. That's why I think some sort of alliance is our best bet. It is a pain in the ass to keep up with ten different sites but I think the purpose of the footer is that the best run website will attract people from all over and the mass will naturally collaborate there.

RPF/LF are just forums at the moment. I'd love to make it "the" portal with a snazzy front page but I need to find a good web person. I don't plan on turning this website over to a board. I'm going to send an email out and start looking for someone to turn RPF/LF into more than just forums...

We should start some kind of footer alliance and have it move over to a non-profit board. It seems to be the best way to include everyone and avoid stepping on toes. For the first go about you could reach out to BreakTheMatrix, LibertyForest/RPF, Free State Project, Operation Cat Herder, EndTheFed, RestoreTheRepublic, The Freedom Revolution, CFL, FreedomsGround, Freeople, Revolution Broadcasting, The Free Turkey, I'm sure I missed others... All of these sites would have a nicely designed footer at the bottom of every page. I don't know if we call it the Online Liberty Alliance as there is already a "Liberty Alliance" but names are easy to come up with. This should be a nuetral organization.

How you go about picking board members, what your we agree statement is, and how people vote for the sites are important questions for probably another thread.

Something like this:

http://i37.tinypic.com/14jylok.png

[JamesButabi]

James recommends people combine their sites. That won't happen. People enjoy running their websites and having control over their individual projects that they have started.

I agree, but you never really know if thats true without an invitation for discussion. What harm would it be to sit down with these individuals and see if everyone could agree on a combination of all the strengths and discarding of waste, under a new impeccable design of a site. Maybe not even everyone decides its for them and immediately dismiss it. Then again maybe 4 or 5 commodities out of the bunch recognize the opportunity and similarity and a spark ignites. Each site may have different attributes (radio, news, forum, education material, meetups, etc). Each owner still has the option to control the strength their site possessed, it would just be supplemented by the strengths of the other site and coordinated together as a whole.




It is a pain in the ass to keep up with ten different sites but I think the purpose of the footer is that the best run website will attract people from all over and the mass will naturally collaborate there.

I don't disagree with you there, I just think there is a better chance of success, less downtime, and faster creation if you have more people working together with a central focus. You will never get everyone to agree because of some personal interests, but if you put the word out there and get a few major entities to join forces with a fresh, professional look; I think that would provide the pull to the masses you were seeking.

[JVParkour]

Ill try to whip something up in photoshop over the next month or so. Maybe get some good graphic ideas for a main page of this website! It might take a while, but i'll try to work on something snazzy...

Wouldn't it be great if we got another domain name, RPF's did, and linked it to this forum? Basically we could start something similar to CFL but more consise and information oriented. A nice clean feel with a link at the top to the forums... Hmmmm...A little more work to the grassroots project section for collaboration of meetups and wallah!

[tangent4ronpaul]

There seem to be two projects that are being talked about here.

One is an alliance site, and the other is a portal.

James recommends people combine their sites. That won't happen. People enjoy running their websites and having control over their individual projects that they have started. That's why I think some sort of alliance is our best bet. It is a pain in the ass to keep up with ten different sites but I think the purpose of the footer is that the best run website will attract people from all over and the mass will naturally collaborate there.


I don't know about that. I wouldn't mind if you did a mashup incorporating at least parts of OCH here or even moving the site (OCH) here and incorporating it - We would like to keep managing those assets, however.

Alternately, maybe there could be something on each page of the various sites (programming I know) that would act like tabs taking people to different parts of a single resource (site) or whole resource (site) - glued together that way so we all became one huge site - in essence. But not just the front door - rather major resources on each site - archives, classifieds, forum, skill bank, grassroots roadmap, video, live radio broadcast, etc.

-t

[JoshLowry]

I don't know about that. I wouldn't mind if you did a mashup incorporating at least parts of OCH here or even moving the site (OCH) here and incorporating it - We would like to keep managing those assets, however.

Alternately, maybe there could be something on each page of the various sites (programming I know) that would act like tabs taking people to different parts of a single resource (site) or whole resource (site) - glued together that way so we all became one huge site - in essence. But not just the front door - rather major resources on each site - archives, classifieds, forum, skill bank, grassroots roadmap, video, live radio broadcast, etc.

-t

You could do a tabbed header and that would be interesting.

[Epic]

A number of us have been working on such a site. It is nearing completion. I posted the following in a different thread:

There are a number of features that an effective Internet hub for the liberty movement should have:

-- Social networking features (think facebook), users should be able to: register, post photos, post videos, join groups, discuss/post in those groups, send public (think wall postings) or private messages to others. User pages should summarize all user activity on the site (all blogs, forum posts, comments, groups, group posts, etc.)

-- Blog System for all users (with commenting). blogs are very popular/important to the two main liberal hubs (huffingtonpost and dailykos).

-- Forum system. Obviously. Should break down in specific subforums that allow organizing at a more local level. RPF is great. But more is needed than just forums.

-- Event system. Listing/info of all events related to liberty movement. Ability for users to post events.

-- Digg-type link submission and voting system. (as mentioned in previous posts)

-- Generally attractive, simple design. A frontpage that gives a snapshot of what's going on in all the sections (blogs, forum, etc.)

A site with these features would be an effective ENABLING site, rather than just an information one. Currently, one has to go to lewrockwell.com or mises.org to read articles by "professional" libertarians/austrians, then go to ronpaulforums to hear the latest from the average guys, maybe go to dailypaul to read some blog entries, then go to campaignforliberty to see if the site has improved.

We need a better platform. Or at least some competition so that campaignforliberty.com knows who to copy.

With all of this in mind, I introduce Liberty Playground: www.LibertyPlayground.com

You can see a sample digg-type page at: http://www.libertyplayground.com/buzz/upcoming.php

The site is not ready. Registrations have not enabled. There is only placeholder content right now. Some links are not correct. I don't have massive servers yet.

But the infrastructure is in place. All of the features listed above currently work, and more are in the pipeline.

I have no illusions that this site will instantly turn into a magical hub of libertarian activity. However, "free market" competition needs to exist so that there eventually be a comfy internet home for the liberty movement. I hope to provide some of this competition.

If interested, any benefactors/contributors/volunteers can message me (fyi - I am using the Joomla content management system).

Thanks,
Jack

----------------------

PS - this could be linked in to RPF if the powers that be wanted that. (accounts would carry over, etc.)

[Nate K]

^^ nice

[tangent4ronpaul]

We are taking back the movement.

Something to be what we expected - not what we got.

Expect major announcements and changes in the next 45 days.

We expect you to BE THE MOVEMENT! - not lemmings. C4L is a piece of this, but not the center - the center needs to be distributed and open. And it will be.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

-t

[Josh_LA]

just what we need, another portal/social network.

dailypaul, rtr, btm, etf are not enough.

[tangent4ronpaul]

just what we need, another portal/social network.

dailypaul, rtr, btm, etf are not enough.

no - glue - coming out of and part of a very major site that will not fracture the major groups, but make them one.

Think mashup.

-t

[newyearsrevolution08]

no - glue - coming out of and part of a very major site that will not fracture the major groups, but make them one.

Think mashup.

-t

A directory?

Or actually linking the sites together, or trying to take from other sites to all go on one?

OR.....

Something like iframes or framing of some type to keep them on the main site BUT still viewing the other sites and or pages?

if its frames, many sites will have advert issues due to frames/masking/fraud flags.

I would like to know more about this though. As far as TOO MANY social groups, websites and everything. Who cares really. They said the same thing about the money bombs and even our worst money bomb STILL made money and would be considered a success.

I think that various groups of people mesh better with others and is why this site is home to many whereas the cfl daily paul and other blogs are home to others. Trying to cram everything into one site might cause SOME issues but odds are you have thought that part through. Simply meaning, there are reasons people start their own sites, to get away from anothers policies or politics and go with something more inline with their style AND so on.

I can't wait to see the many things that will soon be happening. Social Networks, meetup groups, cfl precinct leaders and other clubs, groups and organizations. Exciting things are happening and to try and cage all of that grassroots excitement would be counterproductive.

[tangent4ronpaul]

A directory?

Or actually linking the sites together, or trying to take from other sites to all go on one?

OR.....

Something like iframes or framing of some type to keep them on the main site BUT still viewing the other sites and or pages?

if its frames, many sites will have advert issues due to frames/masking/fraud flags.



<WINK!> But we are still in the very early stages - hay - this has only been rolling a few hours... give us a chance to work out the details...

Other major projects will be rolling out in conjunction...

[newyearsrevolution08]

<WINK!> But we are still in the very early stages - hay - this has only been rolling a few hours... give us a chance to work out the details...

Other major projects will be rolling out in conjunction...

I know it is new and is why stuff like this should be brought up now rather than later. Anything to get rid of any kinks now I would assume to be beneficial to the project in the end.

[ronpaulhawaii]

A number of us have been working on such a site. It is nearing completion. I posted the following in a different thread:

...

A site with these features would be an effective ENABLING site, rather than just an information one. Currently, one has to go to lewrockwell.com or mises.org to read articles by "professional" libertarians/austrians, then go to ronpaulforums to hear the latest from the average guys, maybe go to dailypaul to read some blog entries, then go to campaignforliberty to see if the site has improved.

We need a better platform. Or at least some competition so that campaignforliberty.com knows who to copy.

With all of this in mind, I introduce Liberty Playground: www.LibertyPlayground.com (http://www.LibertyPlayground.com)


Thanks,
Jack

----------------------

PS - this could be linked in to RPF if the powers that be wanted that. (accounts would carry over, etc.)

Nice site, what we are talking about here is a different idea though... Not re-inventing a wheel, but building a bus...

Further, the name you have chosen hints at a lack of seriousness, to me...

lol on the CFL things.


A directory?

Or actually linking the sites together, or trying to take from other sites to all go on one?

OR.....



A front door and foyer... ;)

One of my main concerns at the moment is that I have nowhere to send new recruits. No site that simply welcomes, and introduces your avg Joe to the movement and the ideas behind it. Anyone that knows me will understand how frustrating that is. My greatest strength is in face to face recruiting...

LP (above) is moving in that direction, but is re-inventing many wheels. I don't think we need new Soc-nets/forums/etc.. I do think we need a place that utilizes what we do have and lets people find the place they are most comfortable (if they are the type of person to interact on-line, much). A place they, in turn, will feel comfortable recommending to their contacts...

Another concern of mine is the under-utilization of good ideas. Freeople is an example of such a place. Indeed, is does not look much different than what LP is setting up and has other features which surpass what others have done. While these are great ideas and designs, they just do not draw the traffic and are unsuitable for new recruits...

And shouldn't raising our numbers be our primary objective?

[ronpaulhawaii]

bump

[fr33domfightr]

Nice site, what we are talking about here is a different idea though... Not re-inventing a wheel, but building a bus...

Further, the name you have chosen hints at a lack of seriousness, to me...

lol on the CFL things.



A front door and foyer... ;)

One of my main concerns at the moment is that I have nowhere to send new recruits. No site that simply welcomes, and introduces your avg Joe to the movement and the ideas behind it. Anyone that knows me will understand how frustrating that is. My greatest strength is in face to face recruiting...

LP (above) is moving in that direction, but is re-inventing many wheels. I don't think we need new Soc-nets/forums/etc.. I do think we need a place that utilizes what we do have and lets people find the place they are most comfortable (if they are the type of person to interact on-line, much). A place they, in turn, will feel comfortable recommending to their contacts...

Another concern of mine is the under-utilization of good ideas. Freeople is an example of such a place. Indeed, is does not look much different than what LP is setting up and has other features which surpass what others have done. While these are great ideas and designs, they just do not draw the traffic and are unsuitable for new recruits...

And shouldn't raising our numbers be our primary objective?


I like the idea of an alliance site (or "Bus," if you will).

I specifically would like to see more coordination regarding political activism.

Given any current event, blog/forum discussions could lead to activism to make changes in our government. I'd like to see that discussion lead, in a smooth way, toward a coordinated physical effort, facilitated through Meetup, RestoreTheRepublic, or other similar sites. This does not mean those sites are dependent on the alliance site, only that ideas can be smoothly coordinated for introduction and possible acceptance by the masses at the grassroots for the necessary political pressure.

Would this alliance site be biased toward conservativism? Would a new liberal visitor not feel the love? It would be like someone asking you to join MoveOn.org, would you be happy when you visited the website?


FF

[ronpaulhawaii]

I like the idea of an alliance site (or "Bus," if you will).

I specifically would like to see more coordination regarding political activism.

Given any current event, blog/forum discussions could lead to activism to make changes in our government. I'd like to see that discussion lead, in a smooth way, toward a coordinated physical effort, facilitated through Meetup, RestoreTheRepublic, or other similar sites. This does not mean those sites are dependent on the alliance site, only that ideas can be smoothly coordinated for introduction and possible acceptance by the masses at the grassroots for the necessary political pressure.

Would this alliance site be biased toward conservativism? Would a new liberal visitor not feel the love? It would be like someone asking you to join MoveOn.org, would you be happy when you visited the website?


FF

I am a big tent guy and hope this will evolve into a non-partisan site that focuses on issues common to most everyone. I feel that most avg. people, who identify with either side, do not understand the underlying forces that drive the false left/right monopoly in power. I have had good luck with people from both sides, once I got them to listen. (In fact, I think I have had better luck converting people from "the left" to our platform, than I have with "the right"... )

Your third paragraph hits the nail on the head. The independent orgs that make up the alliance would still run their projects, we would merely lead people to them...

I hope that answers your question, and thanks

:)

[acptulsa]

(In fact, I think I have had better luck converting people from "the left" to our platform, than I have with "the right"...

Yeah, me too.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=104698

[fight4liberty]

Originally posted by ronpaulhawaii
Basically, what I am hoping we build is a simple and welcoming front page that links to the greater movement. We could have "featured" causes, "featured" blogs, "featured videos. Resource links, educational links, "best of" links, etc.

My thought would be that whether you are talking about searching the archives for "the posts we learned the most from" or the "best of" videos, speeches, etc. or whether you are trying to determine which grassroots projects members are interested in and willing to support or you are determining exactly which website features members want, the managers of this site definitely need to have a polling feature they can use. One that is more versatile than the current one used by RPF so it can handle multiple questions with multiple answers for each question.

Let's do it!!

[thechitowncubs]

Who's got some innovative ideas for the graphics? Have we discussed enough to come up with a rough sketch of things? Have we agreed on the purpose?

Chime in.

So far, I'm thinking:

Purpose: Introduce newcomers and interested people to the message of Liberty. Guide them through the forest, if you will. Our goal is for the newcomer to feel welcome to join the R3volution and to make it known there are people out there: this where the Lead-ins for all our great cyberspaces out there would be.

Style: Creative flash video introduction with liberty forest graphics surrounding and perhaps a video of our choice as the focal point, and then a Skip button to continue on. Who doesn't like a good video?

[ronpaulhawaii]

Originally posted by ronpaulhawaii
Basically, what I am hoping we build is a simple and welcoming front page that links to the greater movement. We could have "featured" causes, "featured" blogs, "featured videos. Resource links, educational links, "best of" links, etc.

My thought would be that whether you are talking about searching the archives for "the posts we learned the most from" or the "best of" videos, speeches, etc. or whether you are trying to determine which grassroots projects members are interested in and willing to support or you are determining exactly which website features members want, the managers of this site definitely need to have a polling feature they can use. One that is more versatile than the current one used by RPF so it can handle multiple questions with multiple answers for each question.

Let's do it!!

I have been working with someone else who will be rolling out a survey project. They have used "survey monkey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/Home_Pricing.aspx)" in the past. I'm not sure what else is out there, or how hard it would be to make a custom polling feature. I agree that polling should play a large part in the development/management of the portal...


Who's got some innovative ideas for the graphics? Have we discussed enough to come up with a rough sketch of things? Have we agreed on the purpose?

Chime in.

So far, I'm thinking:

Purpose: Introduce newcomers and interested people to the message of Liberty. Guide them through the forest, if you will. Our goal is for the newcomer to feel welcome to join the R3volution and to make it known there are people out there: this where the Lead-ins for all our great cyberspaces out there would be.

Style: Creative flash video introduction with liberty forest graphics surrounding and perhaps a video of our choice as the focal point, and then a Skip button to continue on. Who doesn't like a good video?

I like both above. We talked about having a weekly sunday night conference call. I don't know how to run a CCall, and actually prefer something like PALTALK, but will be happy with whatever is best for most. On that line, I think it would be cool to have a "conference room" on site, along the lines of PALTALK without the need to sign up on another site...

[thechitowncubs]

I have been working with someone else who will be rolling out a survey project. They have used "survey monkey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/Home_Pricing.aspx)" in the past. I'm not sure what else is out there, or how hard it would be to make a custom polling feature. I agree that polling should play a large part in the development/management of the portal...



I like both above. We talked about having a weekly sunday night conference call. I don't know how to run a CCall, and actually prefer something like PALTALK, but will be happy with whatever is best for most. On that line, I think it would be cool to have a "conference room" on site, along the lines of PALTALK without the need to sign up on another site...

Couldn't teamspeak serve as a good communication medium?

[ronpaulhawaii]

Couldn't teamspeak serve as a good communication medium?

Yep, I forgot about that :) - Thanks

[fight4liberty]

I have been working with someone else who will be rolling out a survey project. They have used "survey monkey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/Home_Pricing.aspx)" in the past. I'm not sure what else is out there, or how hard it would be to make a custom polling feature. I agree that polling should play a large part in the development/management of the portal.

I'm not an IT person but I'm familiar enough with "SurveyMonkey" to know that it is versatile enough for our needs but it is an on-line service that hosts all the survey (poll) data collection and then reports it which costs about $200 a year. There is free downloadable survey software (plug-ins) on the Net (at least there used to be a few years ago). But even if you have to buy the software it would be far cheaper in the long run to install a polling feature on RPF (it would be more secure too). We can always run a Chip In widget if needed.

I just googled "vBulletin survey software free" and found one free downloadable plug-in but I had to send an email to the owners of the site to see if it is compatible with RPF's vBulletin Version 3.7.2 and am still waiting to hear from them. (It's hard to believe they didn't make that info available before you decide to download it.)

If anyone knows of (or wants to put some time into finding) a free downloadable survey tool, I'm sure the info will be helpful and if you find something just post it to this thread.

Thanks.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I talked to Nystrom, Reddy, and others, at the BTP08, about this, everyone likes the idea.

I think a video for the front-page would be good, but not necessarily a flash "intro" page.

Other elements have been listed in other posts in this thread.

I like three column layouts. Primary links on top, secondary links in the left column. Center is the main column, (for our front page could just be a welcome statement and video). the right column could have our "featured" sections...

Bottom could have an OLA widget.

We could use a list of potential ally sites...

We could start having scheduled weekly meetings...

Thoughts???

[RoamZero]

After a bit of a hiatus due to RL issues, coming back it's good to see that there is some excitement in the movement. I think some of the suggestions are good, but the problem with some of them is that too much would be put on one plate. There should at least be some consideration for third party sites like DailyPaul, etc., because the essence of the movement really is about going from the bottom-up and decentralization. One idea I'd like to thrown in is somekind of single-sign-on, or simple registration system/api.

In other words, if the portal is going to be used to refer new people, then it should be used to help facilitate interaction with the many other movement related sites/projects. A single sign on type system could do that, so with the click of a button you could register with whatever sites/projects interest you (something like OpenID might be a good idea, but I think it's rather difficult to implement). Tighten the API a bit and you could manage stuff like private messaging between sites. An RSS aggregator is a must also if you ask me.

[ronpaulhawaii]

After a bit of a hiatus due to RL issues, coming back it's good to see that there is some excitement in the movement. I think some of the suggestions are good, but the problem with some of them is that too much would be put on one plate. There should at least be some consideration for third party sites like DailyPaul, etc., because the essence of the movement really is about going from the bottom-up and decentralization. One idea I'd like to thrown in is somekind of single-sign-on, or simple registration system/api.

In other words, if the portal is going to be used to refer new people, then it should be used to help facilitate interaction with the many other movement related sites/projects. A single sign on type system could do that, so with the click of a button you could register with whatever sites/projects interest you (something like OpenID might be a good idea, but I think it's rather difficult to implement). Tighten the API a bit and you could manage stuff like private messaging between sites. An RSS aggregator is a must also if you ask me.

Glad to have you back.

I like the idea of a centralized sign-up system for the various components of our movement. Not sure how that could be accomplished but worth pursuing - IMO. The entire idea is to build a front door and parlor which lead people to alliance sites, such as RPFs, DP, RtR, BtM, etc ...

Thanks for the input :)

[mediahasyou]

I like the sounds of it.

[ronpaulbillboards]

I talked to Nystrom, Reddy, and others, at the BTP08, about this, everyone likes the idea.

I think a video for the front-page would be good, but not necessarily a flash "intro" page.

Other elements have been listed in other posts in this thread.

I like three column layouts. Primary links on top, secondary links in the left column. Center is the main column, (for our front page could just be a welcome statement and video). the right column could have our "featured" sections...

Bottom could have an OLA widget.

We could use a list of potential ally sites...

We could start having scheduled weekly meetings...

Thoughts???


Since the conclusion of ronpaulbillboards.com after the primaries, I started working on a new website to provide info, promote activist events, and to get people to collaborate and work together on projects.

I launched in late spring and it's been growing by the month. I have all the features that have been talked about in this thread. It's a neutral presentation, meant to bring people from ALL perspectives and expose them to new information and ideas that will hopefully increase their knowledge.

Any sites that sprout from this brainstorm, please list us in your links and we will do the same. I will cross post any articles and info on our site as well for more exposure.

There simply isn't enough sites that fall under our umbrella, we need to support each other to help spread this knowledge to as many as possible.

Harold

JustGetThere.us

Email: join @ justgetthere.us

[sarahdeez]

I am very excited about this project. It can help solve the problem that Ron Paul supporters often come across abrasive and fanatical. This is just because we understand the urgency. The more we learn of injustice, the more obsessed we become. This, however, is not the best first impression we can make. Many Americans can find common beliefs here if introduced in the proper manner. This new avenue will be most helpful for the person who likes to ease in and not jump in head first. We will have everyone swimming before we know it.

And a centralized log in would be so amazing!

[Aratus]

mid-morning caffinated merrie happy bump!

[geodan]

New member here, coming a bit late to the party.

Suppose you were able to empower new members? Empower them to actually offer their individual "consent to govern" in all three branches separately for every legal issue, both at the state and national level? Wouldn't that keep 'em coming back any time they perceived that government needed another nudge?

For starters, I'm talking about building a forum and consequent data base open to all voters and structured on every national (i.e. constitutional) legal issue; later to be used as a model for comparable state forums (perhaps using different websites). Databases would include appropriate links to reference materials, etc.

Each forum thread would identify a popular legal issue, such as 'Redress of Grievances', Eminent Domain', the 'Commerce Clause', 'Natural Born Citizen', 'Declaration of War', etc., and would ultimately paint the colors of that legal issue, where colors express the range and popularity of various interpretations, applications, scope, and/or limits of the law as derived from forum inputs. These then would serve as templates for the creation, implementation, and interpretation of subsequent law.

Every forum participant would necessarily broaden his presentation skills and knowledge to successfully argue his points in coloring the consent to the particular law. Databases would serve as the source of "consent to govern" for the three branches of the affected government.

A comparable national forum could serve to document and qualify every candidate for public office, later to be used as a model for state candidate forums. That being an ongoing window on candidates would obviate the need for MSM theatrics at election time, because people will have picked their candidates long before then, based on much better input than media can deliver.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Since the conclusion of ronpaulbillboards.com after the primaries, I started working on a new website to provide info, promote activist events, and to get people to collaborate and work together on projects.

I launched in late spring and it's been growing by the month. I have all the features that have been talked about in this thread. It's a neutral presentation, meant to bring people from ALL perspectives and expose them to new information and ideas that will hopefully increase their knowledge.

Any sites that sprout from this brainstorm, please list us in your links and we will do the same. I will cross post any articles and info on our site as well for more exposure.

There simply isn't enough sites that fall under our umbrella, we need to support each other to help spread this knowledge to as many as possible.

Harold

JustGetThere.us

Email: join @ justgetthere.us

Nice !!! , you are on the list :D


I am very excited about this project. It can help solve the problem that Ron Paul supporters often come across abrasive and fanatical. This is just because we understand the urgency. The more we learn of injustice, the more obsessed we become. This, however, is not the best first impression we can make. Many Americans can find common beliefs here if introduced in the proper manner. This new avenue will be most helpful for the person who likes to ease in and not jump in head first. We will have everyone swimming before we know it.

And a centralized log in would be so amazing!

that's the idea, glad you see the vision :) I'll be a bit tied up till the New Year, but look forward to advancing this more as time allows...


New member here, coming a bit late to the party.

Suppose you were able to empower new members? Empower them to actually offer their individual "consent to govern" in all three branches separately for every legal issue, both at the state and national level? Wouldn't that keep 'em coming back any time they perceived that government needed another nudge?

For starters, I'm talking about building a forum and consequent data base open to all voters and structured on every national (i.e. constitutional) legal issue; later to be used as a model for comparable state forums (perhaps using different websites). Databases would include appropriate links to reference materials, etc.

Each forum thread would identify a popular legal issue, such as 'Redress of Grievances', Eminent Domain', the 'Commerce Clause', 'Natural Born Citizen', 'Declaration of War', etc., and would ultimately paint the colors of that legal issue, where colors express the range and popularity of various interpretations, applications, scope, and/or limits of the law as derived from forum inputs. These then would serve as templates for the creation, implementation, and interpretation of subsequent law.

Every forum participant would necessarily broaden his presentation skills and knowledge to successfully argue his points in coloring the consent to the particular law. Databases would serve as the source of "consent to govern" for the three branches of the affected government.

A comparable national forum could serve to document and qualify every candidate for public office, later to be used as a model for state candidate forums. That being an ongoing window on candidates would obviate the need for MSM theatrics at election time, because people will have picked their candidates long before then, based on much better input than media can deliver.

Welcome to the forum; not late, just in time :)

One thing to keep in mind is that this particular project is intended to drive traffic to existing sites, not build new ones. While any new sites, that share our basic goals, will be encouraged to join, I wonder that your forum idea can be built in an existing forum structure, such as here on RPFs? Or is anyone already doing something similar?

However it turns out, I hope this remains a group effort and everyone contributes in one way, or another. Thanks for posting your ideas

[ShowMeLiberty]

Something that might be looked at for ideas (not to directly imitate because it has issues of its own to resolve) is Top Conservatives On Twitter (TCOT).

http://www.topconservativesontwitter.org/

And the associated news site, TCOT Report 2009: http://www.tcotreport.com/

I'm pretty sure this group formed only recently and it has over 1500 members already including some big name conservatives like Bobby Jindal and Michelle Malkin (I know, I know, I'm just saying). They have a few projects running and some already complete.

I joined this a while ago to see what it was all about. One thing I like is hearing different points-of-view on Twitter from other members. Many of them are not so different from us. There are even a number of small "l" libertarians like myself in the group.

Anyway, it's just something I thought I'd mention as a similar project that seems to be having some early success.

[geodan]

ronpaulhawaii, thanks for the reply.

On an open Campaign for Liberty blog, and through other comments at that site, I had previously suggested empowering voters: http://campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=6390 There has been no particular interest shown, so it still remains a wide open application.

This project would really need to be started as an experiment and perfected on the fly. I am not that familiar with forums, but suspect RPF would do well. The challenge would be to extract and retain valuable information from each forum thread as described in post #59.

A "Constitution" forum/database could be used to document existing legal v. illegal applications of federal law, which would then be useful to illuminate abuses and to argue for downsizing the federal government. That would be a full plate.

If successful we would want states to use this project as a template for establishing autonomous state wide forums for state and national legal issues, forums that could be linked from here. For the sake of time we would want the states coming on board in parallel, which could open floodgates.

My expertise was digital electronic design, not complex computer applications. Is there someone here who could help roughly assess the database software requirement and availability to determine the practicality of a pilot project, given a written proposal?

Thanks again for your interest.

[tangent4ronpaul]

One thing to keep in mind is that this particular project is intended to drive traffic to existing sites, not build new ones. While any new sites, that share our basic goals, will be encouraged to join, I wonder that your forum idea can be built in an existing forum structure, such as here on RPFs? Or is anyone already doing something similar?

However it turns out, I hope this remains a group effort and everyone contributes in one way, or another. Thanks for posting your ideas

On what he's talking about - extracting issues information and where elected reps stand on things (voting record, etc). OCH kinda started in this direction but differently. We started out with grassroots methods - ie: the grassroots field manual and decided that the best way to go forward was to do some data mining of RP sites - you know create a kind of "ron paul site google" then have volunteer collectors come in take a topic each, and condense all the meat out of relevant threads and pass it on to a writer to organize and put into a coherent format. The base research on how and obtaining some tools to do it was done, but it never went further than that - other than what was collected and put online.

On the voting record, we didn't have enough volunteers and found other sites that kinda do this - but to really do it right, we would need to go though every bill and collect every vote - categorizing them as to topic, etc. - a LOT of work. We never considered doing issues.

Wouldn't mind picking this up again - but would need a to pull together programmers, DB people, collectors, researchers/fact checkers and authors/editors. Also a site for the spider/database and development team.

-t

[geodan]

Who is OCH?

Perhaps I’m naive, but my hopes were to structure info gathering to minimize manual data mining. I envisioned each legal issue (i.e. forum narrative thread) being represented by a linked (Wiki styled?) database token, each token having descriptive fields, any combination of which could become sort fields.

Token parameters would pin down the legal issue as to the usual subject, class, category, etc. with as many embedded levels as necessary to fully identify its proper place in the database, and would split into sibling and/or child tokens, as needed, all having a common identity, to accommodate different facets of the legal issue narrative, until all facets important to the users have been treated. A new facet might suggest an exception to the general rule of law, for example.

Each facet (i.e. token) would have measurable degrees of expressed interest, priority, and importance, and a hidden poll of user answers to unique user questions germane to that facet of the legal issue.

Each user, being identifiable, would be limited to one set of answers per token, answers that could be modified as often as desired (without bumping the interest or event count). Each token would have a link interface to external data sources. Tokens spun off or merged by a user would be historically identifiable to that user.

The intended result is to be able to sort down to a set of tokens that could be displayed, possibly in an array of formats, all tokens being common to the legal issue. The data observer would able to analyze public interest in the various facets of a given issue. The assumption being that issues split evenly among many interests, as reflected in the polls, should not be law at that level (though possibly so at some lower level), whereas highly popular and heavily biased issues should be satisfied through identifiable existing law, or become candidate for new legislation.

[tangent4ronpaul]

OCH = Operation Cat Herder
http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Main_Page

It sounds like you want to re-create the semantic web (still very much in it's infancy) from scratch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web

It kinda sounds like you are describing what we have in this forum software but with umpteen zillion sub forums, of sub forums of sub forums and voting on individual posts. Or more like a Wiki... with a message forum and voting system attached to each section of each topic.

From the Wiki standpoint - you have a couple of problems: 1) your users need to learn or know the syntax and 2) they have to agree to abide by formatting, classification and reference rules. (They also need to be able to spell and use the correct keywords - GOOD LUCK!). Wiki sorta works because other people can come along and edit your posts and there is a small army of editors lurking in the background that step in and really know that they are doing.

As you are coming from a one post per topic, per person standpoint - what makes Wiki work breaks down. Also, you really haven't reduced the amount of information posted on a topic - just forced each contributor to post in one place. You may still have 500 contributors now making really loooong posts on a specific topic. And like Wiki, there is still a need for discussion about what is posted. At least with a Wiki- you get ONE article about a specific topic, not one for each poster. Or am I not understanding what you are trying to do. Your description was a bit confusing.

Are you thinking of a Daily Kaos(sp?) or Digg approach where articles get voted up or down? (but with the overhead of all these levels?) - That's still lossy, as those with an agenda can bury good info and inflate bad info - also, an article can be garbage but have one or two great links and get buried.

Also, this should be / shouldn't be law bit and the really fine grain level voting system... - How does that relate to what you were describing before? Who is the intended audience? and have you got any idea how many variables you are talking about and what kind of taxonomy this is going to require? - it sounds like a DB nightmare!

Before you were talking about documenting our representatives voting records and summarizing / providing links to specific issues. Now your talking about voting individuals posts up and down to determine if the topic should become law? What are you trying to describe here?

And what happens to the votes if someone changes their post?

For all you are describing - why not just crawl Thomas and organize the lower level, only based on their tags as an extension - linking to them for content, beyond a basic bill title, number and status? Become an extension of their system, without recreating and re-organizing everything.

As to the data/text mining I was referring to the point is to aggregate the data and create a single search point in order to make the process less labor intensive.

-t

[ronpaulhawaii]

:eek::cool::)

A couple things:



what do people think of http://openid.net , and would it work for our purposes?
What are possible/alternative urls? Should we even use terms Liberty, Freedom, etc? Would it be better to stay with something generic like "xyz-net", or something descriptive like onlinelibertyalliance? Maybe something playing off the term activism? I'd like to see some ideas thrown around...

[tangent4ronpaul]

openid looks like just the ticket!

-t

[RoamZero]

The problem with OpenID is that the client sites (the ones you log into) need to have it supported on the application level. And while most common cms/blog systems have some sort of openID plugin (Joomla/Wordpress/Drupal/etc), there is the possibility that the underlying server backend (such as PHP) lacks the ability to run the plugins :/ So if you're still running php 4 then there is a good chance you are out of luck.

The other issue is that you log in with a url and not a username/pass.

But yes if you could go around the hurdles of OpenID it would work, and you'd get the benefit of prepackaged plugins (sadly some work and some dont) and libraries. The other option is a new system altogether, which could be simple and secured with ssl, but libraries/plugins would need to be written for common platforms.

[geodan]

[tangent4ronpaul;1886963]
OCH = Operation Cat Herder
http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Main_Page
This is a new tool to me. Does not seem to fit these needs.

It sounds like you want to re-create the semantic web (still very much in it's infancy) from scratch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web
Definitely not trying to use or re-create semantic web, nor to re-invent.

It kinda sounds like you are describing what we have in this forum software but with umpteen zillion sub forums, of sub forums of sub forums and voting on individual posts. Or more like a Wiki... with a message forum and voting system attached to each section of each topic.
This has been a first cut. I'm not sufficiently familiar with forums and Wiki to relate well to their usage. Actually, I'm making this up as we go!

From the Wiki standpoint - you have a couple of problems: 1) your users need to learn or know the syntax and 2) they have to agree to abide by formatting, classification and reference rules. (They also need to be able to spell and use the correct keywords - GOOD LUCK!). Wiki sorta works because other people can come along and edit your posts and there is a small army of editors lurking in the background that step in and really know that they are doing.
For a "Constitution" forum the breakdown is either Article/Section/Clause or is Amendment/Clause (or something similar). Each clause has fixed and variable topics of interest to be discussed. Fixed data, including an abstract, poll Q & A's, and links to reference material would be preserved in text format. Variable topics are a grey area needing to be explored further, i.e. what is the purpose of the clause (say, eminent domain), range of interpretations, practical limits of application, punishments and/or penalties, etc. This requires considerable discussion whose purpose should be to translate these parameter variables (previously called facets) into cryptic tokens (voting ballots) that each carry an array of fixed data (i.e. voter ID and parameer ID), and an array of variable data from voter input regarding the parameter (such as a poll result, a scaled value of 1 thru 9, or whatever) formatted in such a way as to be weighed or tallied with other same parameter token variables (perhaps in linked lists containing up to thousands of tokens representing one for each voter?).

As you are coming from a one post per topic, per person standpoint - what makes Wiki work breaks down. Also, you really haven't reduced the amount of information posted on a topic - just forced each contributor to post in one place. You may still have 500 contributors now making really loooong posts on a specific topic. And like Wiki, there is still a need for discussion about what is posted. At least with a Wiki- you get ONE article about a specific topic, not one for each poster. Or am I not understanding what you are trying to do. Your description was a bit confusing.
Unfortunately I do not know what pigeon holes exist, therefore cannot at this time describe my pigeon in terms acceptable to existing holes. I can only describe the desired result (a culmination of voter preferences on partiular legal issues) and a possible method of arriving there. I have some familiarity with linked lists of tokens, which can be very versitile in dedicated computer applications. Here we are trying to use existing web tools. I cannot even speak HTML, so I know not what can readily be done on existing website systems.

Are you thinking of a Daily Kaos(sp?) or Digg approach where articles get voted up or down? (but with the overhead of all these levels?) - That's still lossy, as those with an agenda can bury good info and inflate bad info - also, an article can be garbage but have one or two great links and get buried.
I dunno.

Also, this should be / shouldn't be law bit and the really fine grain level voting system... - How does that relate to what you were describing before? Who is the intended audience? and have you got any idea how many variables you are talking about and what kind of taxonomy this is going to require? - it sounds like a DB nightmare!
Intended audience is the large community of voters, of course, their legislatures, and possibly judges and scholars.
It is probable that the variable portion of each legal issue token would be unique in length and content, in which case there would need to have a corresponding description for that token's layout resident in the database.

Before you were talking about documenting our representatives voting records and summarizing / providing links to specific issues.
I do not recall doing that. However, I did suggest a comparable forum for candidates, but comparable perhaps only from the standpoint of the user.

Now your talking about voting individuals posts up and down to determine if the topic should become law? What are you trying to describe here?
First (pilot) application would be the U.S. Constitution, for its universal appeal especially to to Ron Paul types, but also to all stripes of voters. Legislatures, etc., would need to be able to discern from the resulting data the public's consent to the purpose of each clause (say, eminent domain), range of interpretations, practical limits of application, punishments and/or penalties, etc.

And what happens to the votes if someone changes their post?
Sorry for the confusion. Hopefully a voter could retrieve his token(s) and change them to suit changing events and times; but that such changes would not affect the apparent number of voters, or whatever.

For all you are describing - why not just crawl Thomas and organize the lower level, only based on their tags as an extension - linking to them for content, beyond a basic bill title, number and status? Become an extension of their system, without recreating and re-organizing everything.
Not sure I follow you. Who is Thomas. Would he get ticked off if I crawl him? Seriously, if this can be done at all, I'm open to whatever tools will do the job. I can only hope to steer towards obtaining useful results.

As to the data/text mining I was referring to the point is to aggregate the data and create a single search point in order to make the process less labor intensive.
Thought you meant manual data/text mining. Again, whatever works.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Thomas - everything Congress is working on:
http://thomas.loc.gov/

So you want to see what parts of the Constitution people would be open changing? - I think that would run contrary to what most here believe in. OTOH: a listing of current laws and how they violate the Constitution by Article and Section might be good - except that Article 1, Section 3 would spike as would the BoR, while the rest would be pretty flat. Also, many laws violate multiple sections.

For what you are describing - we are WAY past linked lists! - why don't you look up a book or three on data structures.

But most generally - you're talking about a tool for the general public but talking about integrating it into a portal for a special, and obviously biased audience - ie: Ron Paul supporters. That's not going to give a representative view of what the public thinks but might be great for identifying how specific laws violate what sections of the Constitution. We seem to attract Constitutional Wonks here.

-t

[geodan]

Tangentforronpaul,

Your questions are tangential to the purpose of the proposed Constitution forum. They touch on, but are not pertinent to the project, save for the question of venue.

For the record, I am dead set AGAINST changes to the U.S. Constitution. Rather, I would like to see the “Constitution forum” highlight the growing misapplication of various constitutional clauses by spelling out valid clause applicability via public consent. (However, I would be in favor of repealing certain misguided amendments sometime after control of the U.S. central government has been regained.)

OK. We are WAY past linked lists. We are also WAY past shrugging off government. We need solutions now, not more problems.

What do you suspect is required to implement the desired goal of converting the public’s limits on ‘consent of the governed’ into specific and machine measurable public consent to existing or proposed legislation, application, and interpretation? Agreed, there are no instant answers. We gotta make ‘em up as we go along. No biggie. It’s done all the time by successful people.

What is a Constitutional Wonk? (This best be important.)

[geodan]

How do I delete the unintended 2nd posting of this message?

[ronpaulhawaii]

How do I delete the unintended 2nd posting of this message?

Click on this button (top right on dupe post)

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/buttons/report.gif

and flag the post.

You can edit and delete text, but we need to delete the post itself...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pondering...

[tangent4ronpaul]

Still trying to figure out what you want to do and how it would fit in.

wonk (wngk)
n. Slang
1. A student who studies excessively; a grind.
2. One who studies an issue or a topic thoroughly or excessively: "leading a talkathon of policy wonks in a methodical effort to build consensus for his programs" Michael Kranish.

-t

[ronpaulhawaii]

The problem with OpenID is that the client sites (the ones you log into) need to have it supported on the application level. And while most common cms/blog systems have some sort of openID plugin (Joomla/Wordpress/Drupal/etc), there is the possibility that the underlying server backend (such as PHP) lacks the ability to run the plugins :/ So if you're still running php 4 then there is a good chance you are out of luck.

The other issue is that you log in with a url and not a username/pass.

But yes if you could go around the hurdles of OpenID it would work, and you'd get the benefit of prepackaged plugins (sadly some work and some dont) and libraries. The other option is a new system altogether, which could be simple and secured with ssl, but libraries/plugins would need to be written for common platforms.

Thanks, so what I see is that OpenID could be looked further into, but we still may be better off with something custom...


Still trying to figure out what you want to do and how it would fit in.

wonk (wngk)
n. Slang
1. A student who studies excessively; a grind.
2. One who studies an issue or a topic thoroughly or excessively: "leading a talkathon of policy wonks in a methodical effort to build consensus for his programs" Michael Kranish.

-t

Seems like a decent angle, for a separate project, that our portal could link to. One question is which other orgs are already doing something similar (like OCH) that this can be incorporated into? Or would a completely separate site be needed? Regardless, such a project seems outside the scope of the portal project...

[geodan]

Thanks for your comments.

Having come late to the party I wasn't sure where the focus of your portal project needs and interests lie. It did seem like an opportunity to introduce this concept of a forum on legal issues, and I appreciate the interest that you've shown but, as you say, it's outside the scope.

Good luck on your portal project.

[ronpaulhawaii]

1st attempt at outlining is here...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1896949

[mediahasyou]

I like the idea of a "Welcoming Mat" for new recruits. The site should be simple for newcomers and the ideas a bit "toned" down. Conspiracies would send them walking the other way.

[mediahasyou]

we had operation cat herder as a wiki but that never went anywhere.

[JoshLowry]

1st attempt at outlining is here...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1896949

That looks good!

I've been missing around here because of holidays but I'm back. :)

[tangent4ronpaul]

we had operation cat herder as a wiki but that never went anywhere.

It's still around and quite a lot happened! - question is what to do with it. Some projects have been rather successful. Others not so.

-t

[fight4liberty]

1st attempt at outlining is here...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1896949

I'm getting the vision and I can see how this new site could really harness/channel a lot of folks into the movement.



:eek::cool::)


What are possible/alternative urls? Should we even use terms Liberty, Freedom, etc? Would it be better to stay with something generic like "xyz-net", or something descriptive like onlinelibertyalliance? Maybe something playing off the term activism? I'd like to see some ideas thrown around...


Since you are going to want to attract visitors from a very broad spectrum of people I would suggest that words like Liberty or Freedom by themselves would appeal to a narrower band of people then we would want so your onlinelibertyalliance would not have broad enough appeal. I personally like it but I'm an insider. If words like Freedom are used in combination with other issue type words such as RP's original slogan, "Freedom, Prosperity and Peace" then it would, of course, appeal to a much broader spectrum. "FreedomProsperityPeaceAlliance"? Too long? Not sure.

What I do know as a marketing person is that the key to the successful wording for the url and the name would be to actually survey people from other sites and have them choose from multiple choice questions and have one question for them to suggest names. You know visit sites of Dems, Indies, Repubs, Peace folks, etc. You would have to provide a link to a survey/poll site for them to go to and vote. You eventually narrow it down to two or three possible names and then make the rounds again to the same sites as before and survey them again and you'll end up with a broad appealing name.

One last tip. The name of the website and ideally the url, too, should as you suggest be instantly recognizable or self explanatory. Not to pick on the name "Liberty Forest" but this is an example of a name that I would bet if you did a survey on a hundred frequent on-line users (excluding people who have been to the RPF site, of course) you'd be lucky to find one person who knows or recognizes the meaning of it. You would even find it difficult to find someone who knows what it means among people that consider themselves American patriots. So we need to make sure the name is self explanatory. The words "online" or "Internet" and "alliance" or "coalition" are good words. I would have to give it more thought which I don't have time to do now.

Hey everybody. Put your thinking caps on.

But this portal site concept is a great idea!

[ronpaulhawaii]

I like the idea of a "Welcoming Mat" for new recruits. The site should be simple for newcomers and the ideas a bit "toned" down. Conspiracies would send them walking the other way.

Yes, the style can be described as "red-pill lite." My thinking is that all frontdoor/foyer content will stick to basics, palatable to most... Further, the affiliate descriptions on the sitemap (parlor) should hint at how far down the rabbit hole the individual unit frequents...


That looks good!

I've been missing around here because of holidays but I'm back. :)

The pics look like you had fun :) Glad you like the direction this is moving...

I have been looking into Open Source tools for this. To start with, we may have a work-around for implementing OpenID. I just created a limesurvey account to play around a bit. And openmeetings may be just the ticket for the conference hall.


I'm getting the vision and I can see how this new site could really harness/channel a lot of folks into the movement.

Since you are going to want to attract visitors from a very broad spectrum of people I would suggest that words like Liberty or Freedom by themselves would appeal to a narrower band of people then we would want so your onlinelibertyalliance would not have broad enough appeal. I personally like it but I'm an insider. If words like Freedom are used in combination with other issue type words such as RP's original slogan, "Freedom, Prosperity and Peace" then it would, of course, appeal to a much broader spectrum. "FreedomProsperityPeaceAlliance"? Too long? Not sure.

What I do know as a marketing person is that the key to the successful wording for the url and the name would be to actually survey people from other sites and have them choose from multiple choice questions and have one question for them to suggest names. You know visit sites of Dems, Indies, Repubs, Peace folks, etc. You would have to provide a link to a survey/poll site for them to go to and vote. You eventually narrow it down to two or three possible names and then make the rounds again to the same sites as before and survey them again and you'll end up with a broad appealing name.

One last tip. The name of the website and ideally the url, too, should as you suggest be instantly recognizable or self explanatory. Not to pick on the name "Liberty Forest" but this is an example of a name that I would bet if you did a survey on a hundred frequent on-line users (excluding people who have been to the RPF site, of course) you'd be lucky to find one person who knows or recognizes the meaning of it. You would even find it difficult to find someone who knows what it means among people that consider themselves American patriots. So we need to make sure the name is self explanatory. The words "online" or "Internet" and "alliance" or "coalition" are good words. I would have to give it more thought which I don't have time to do now.

Hey everybody. Put your thinking caps on.

But this portal site concept is a great idea!

Thanks for adding your thoughts here. I just opened a survey account and will be learning the software. I could use help with the questions...

SEO and the Ideal URL ???

While the best url is being sought, can we could still move forward with any decent available url. Could we just build it using onlinelibertyalliance (or something else we already own), until we find something better?

Yes, thinking caps will help heaps at this point...

Something using Four Points, perhaps?

onward and forward :D

[ronpaulhawaii]

Re: the survey tool

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=174856

[fight4liberty]

...the Ideal URL ???

While the best url is being sought, can we still move forward with any decent available url. Could we just build it using onlinelibertyalliance (or something else we already own), until we find something better?

onward and forward :D

I meant to mention this earlier and dropped the ball. Yes, we should move forward on building the site using "onlinelibertyalliance" or some other url we already have.

However, doing a decent survey quite often gives useful data that can be used for either content or layout decisions for a site so it shouldn't be put off until the last thing.

If needed I can help with the survey questions, the general strategy and goals of the survey but I won't have time to get involved in drumming up participants to do the surveys. I'm sure we can get many people involved in this step - you know... "many hands make light work", etc.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I meant to mention this earlier and dropped the ball. Yes, we should move forward on building the site using "onlinelibertyalliance" or some other url we already have.

However, doing a decent survey quite often gives useful data that can be used for either content or layout decisions for a site so it shouldn't be put off until the last thing.

If needed I can help with the survey questions, the general strategy and goals of the survey but I won't have time to get involved in drumming up participants to do the surveys. I'm sure we can get many people involved in this step - you know... "many hands make light work", etc.

Thanks :)

I have been quietly building other tools in preparation for this, don't really see a problem drumming up participants. I will move forward on starting up the OLA site, (will start with a skeleton) Will definitely need question sets for the Survey tool and agreed we could use a set for building the site. I am thinking to store the question sets in the WIKI, perhaps build the question sets there, and then link to the survey thread ^^^

At the moment, I have the full survey tool installed on the C4Liberty server. I will install it on the OLA once I get the frame together...

Facets I have been working on include:

Mission Statement - Could use some drafts here, I can create a simple one, but others will probably be better than mine for a final.

Issue Statements - ditto ^^^ - 4 points based for the foyer, and additions for the parlor (Environment, HealthCare, etc...)

Also, a programming friend has mentioned building a vertical search engine that I am now looking into...

onward and forward

[ronpaulhawaii]

A front door mock up...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb19/mkauai/RPFs/OLAfrntpgMU1.png

The quote will be from a random generator. All elements are just place holders waiting for better... The idea is simple and inviting. Don't know if the "redpill" enter button is appropo :D

[mediahasyou]

A front door mock up...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb19/mkauai/RPFs/OLAfrntpgMU1.png

The quote will be from a random generator. All elements are just place holders waiting for better... The idea is simple and inviting. Don't know if the "redpill" enter button is appropo :D

If there is to be a enter page. There should be a simple list of issues that people can click on to learn more. However, the issues should be very broad like individual liberty, financial liberty, equality, and general issues of liberty.

The homepage of the site must be very broad and appealing to everyone. But once the site visitor goes deeper into the site, there must be more links for further research.

So the red pill is not very appropriate on the front page. Especially, since the matrix is a fictional conspiracy movie. The site should stay away from conspiracies. Conspiracies are not appealing.

[mediahasyou]

The site does not have to be fancy. A simple blog would do fine.

The site does not have to persuade others to join the liberty movement the exact moment they visit the home page. All it has to do is point them to the right places on the web.

[mediahasyou]

Thanks :)

I have been quietly building other tools in preparation for this, don't really see a problem drumming up participants. I will move forward on starting up the OLA site, (will start with a skeleton) Will definitely need question sets for the Survey tool and agreed we could use a set for building the site. I am thinking to store the question sets in the WIKI, perhaps build the question sets there, and then link to the survey thread ^^^

At the moment, I have the full survey tool installed on the C4Liberty server. I will install it on the OLA once I get the frame together...

Facets I have been working on include:

Mission Statement - Could use some drafts here, I can create a simple one, but others will probably be better than mine for a final.

Issue Statements - ditto ^^^ - 4 points based for the foyer, and additions for the parlor (Environment, HealthCare, etc...)

Also, a programming friend has mentioned building a vertical search engine that I am now looking into...

onward and forward

Mission Statement: To promote liberty.
Is this obvious?

[ronpaulhawaii]

If there is to be a enter page. There should be a simple list of issues that people can click on to learn more. However, the issues should be very broad like individual liberty, financial liberty, equality, and general issues of liberty.

The homepage of the site must be very broad and appealing to everyone. But once the site visitor goes deeper into the site, there must be more links for further research.

So the red pill is not very appropriate on the front page. Especially, since the matrix is a fictional conspiracy movie. The site should stay away from conspiracies. Conspiracies are not appealing.

Two reasons I am proposing an enter page, like above, is:


There are many reasons people take one look and never return; apathy is among the top. I hope to be able to plant a seed in every mind who glances at the site.
It starts the process of digging deeper, which is something I think we want people to get used to doing.

I wonder how many would have noticed the "redpill" had I not mentioned it?


The site does not have to be fancy. A simple blog would do fine.

The site does not have to persuade others to join the liberty movement the exact moment they visit the home page. All it has to do is point them to the right places on the web.

The idea is to be inviting to as broad a spectrum as possible. That means appealing to emotions. I agree that it need not be fancy, but do think it should be elegant.


Mission Statement: To promote liberty.
Is this obvious?

haha - howabout?


To showcase the people, and organizations, who promote, and defend, the socio-economic value of liberty


Or ???

Thanks :)

[tajitj]

Great topic.

I have always been frusturated at the C4L in not trying to bring in the other major Ron Paul inspired sites.

There is so much room on the C4L homepage. Even a small section showing what is HOT on the sites. Something needs to happen before the next election, that way we are ready to battle the MSM effectively.

Spare me the "we don't need top down control" crap. Those ideas are for govt, not business and entrepreneurial online efforts.

I do think that ronpaulforums.com, and dailypaul.com are the top dogs. Someone can be tuned in to Paul friendly news and info by going to only those sites.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Great topic.

I have always been frusturated at the C4L in not trying to bring in the other major Ron Paul inspired sites.

There is so much room on the C4L homepage. Even a small section showing what is HOT on the sites. Something needs to happen before the next election, that way we are ready to battle the MSM effectively.

Spare me the "we don't need top down control" crap. Those ideas are for govt, not business and entrepreneurial online efforts.

I do think that ronpaulforums.com, and dailypaul.com are the top dogs. Someone can be tuned in to Paul friendly news and info by going to only those sites.

Glad you like it. I am hoping this will eventually be turned over to committee, from the several sites, providing structure.

[PitViper]

OK I am a Noob here, so holler if I step on any toes and I will get to the back of the bus. Sorry this is so long. :o

-- What follows is my image of an Ideal website for the “Liberty movement” composed of any sites liberty oriented, not jut Ron Paul. --

{If this is off topic, please delete, I actually thought it contributes.}

0. But first: Man! I thought I was all alone in seeing CFL as an "inhibition" to the movement. Thank goodness a few agree! I find its main weaknesses to be that the member blog posts are only up for a single day and then (for all practical purposes) disappear into oblivion! A waste of time for most posters making it discouraging to ever post again. Further more there is no networking, it reminds me Wholly of a site created by the CIA! Why? One word - Compartmentalization!

It seems to isolate and single out, more than it helps network and gain for any member any significant impetus. I actually stopped going there because of it., and refused to link to it from my website.

I see a lot of ideas on sites in this post, on unifying all the Freedom fighters, on concentrating our power to a significant force, etc. I do think the OCH is a nice tool offered up (thanks). I also strongly believe in what one other poster listed:

1. KISS!!! Keep it simple stupid! :)

I saw many sites listed which were very, very professionally done, well done . . . but IMHO, simply MHO, there was too much info on them! Maybe not for us . . . but, a lot of viewers, especially the sleeping sheep, will be turned away by the slightest demand of effort. Again just my opinion, offered in respect not spite.
I used to pedal books to the sheep, then I found I wasn’t getting the message across because few would read them, and of that few, fewer would finish them, and of that few, fewer would comprehend what they just read!
So I switched to simple documents . . . Same result, few would read . . . etc.
Now I am at videos. And STILL some people won’t even take 5 “F”ing minutes to watch a life changing video, but will charge through Armageddon to watch a football game! ARG! Why do I even try???? :(
So I think it is important to keep things VERY simple, because, honestly, there are some very “simple” people in this present world. In fact, they outnumber us.

2. Tools

Just like the OCH site listed above, excellent tools need to be provided by us for free, for the use of ourselves and any newcomer, consolidated clearly into One Place. Tools only empower. So the end goal of this section of the site is to empower, to streamline and expedite the evolution/development of our members and potential members. If everyone has to spend weeks searching the net for decisive info to act and react, our movement shall remain cumbersome, clumsy, stepping and fetching, stumbling and crawling. Again the OCH is a good example on how to give people tools, but it doesn’t have to be limited to just this type of tool, but always - KISS. For example I read aloud the constitution and other docs to save others the effort, and organized my website (www.individualism.asia) according to all the principles I mention in this post. Anything saving others time and effort effectively saves the entire group time and effort. Selflessly combining our works will empower us all equally, I call this “the force of inspiration” in my book.
By freely sharing your knowledge or works with others, they become empowered and thereby generate their own works, which they then share with you; thus empowering you. So, to share actually empowers yourself and the community exponentially. In this way we can actually out grow the “Old Machine” because the corrupt bureaucrats do everything for money, thus slow down their evolution. So even though they have a 100 year head start, by exponential growth, we can overtake them. A nice, clear list of “tools” in an easy to find place would be a good part of the Ideal site.

3. One Plan of action

IMHO. Soo many people are out there who are all fired up and ready to do something but – have no idea what to do or how to do it! (Not us, but you know, . . . them. :p) Part of this (A) would be in the “tools” section, like, how to take action etc.
But the other side (Us) already have their own ideas, goals, methods etc. Therefor I suggest (B) to gather ALL OF OUR GOALS together, in one comprehensive place, and synthesize them into a detailed “Archgoal” and detail the steps necessary to reach each aspect. For example, say we all want the fed repealed, then we want the Patriot act repealed, then we want . . . whatever. Each one of us may be specialized in one area of this Archgoal, thus they will naturally be inclined to handle that aspect, in fact the mere suggestion of a part of the Archgoal may have come from that “team” specialized to tackle it. However one item may be held as priority by multiple groups, allowing them to combine their efforts and resources.
Then we simply, simultaneously and systematically begin initiating actions to achieve this Archgoal with realistic but STRICT deadlines. Using our “tools”; as we progress we will generate more powerful tools for our web community tool box, thus exponentially empowering the impetus of the entire community! Hence there would be an Archgoal page in this Ideal website with each subsection having a link to the “team”(specialized website/group/organization/ect.) tackling that section and their progress.
A volunteer team of moderators would need be set up to oversee the entire progress of the Archgoal and maintain the deadlines, and also provide impartial feedback to the community at large as to the level of cooperation of each team, e.g., are they serious or just wannabees. This central communication with each team will act as a cohesive force, and efficient conductor of work energy. Eg if one team completes all its goals, it can help another team who may be behind. This central communication will also be encouraging because all our separate websites will feel encouraged that we have become allies to One synthesized cause, which wholly recognizes our independent goals, and is a bountiful source of free tools and info.
This central group will “harvest” all the data from each team and post it on the “Archsite”(the Ideal site), from new tools, articles, progress, complaints, etc.
Another job of this volunteer team is to seek and contact potential member sites. No Militant sites should be included in case a possible haphazard action disgraces our One Flag. But being that I am a pro militia man, maybe this exact same model could be used for a strictly militant central hub site, in tandem with the Ideal site.
Finally this central communication IS BY NO MEANS a commander, it is simply a reporter and suggester/organizer, no independent site has to comply with anything, but its actions will be listed for the community at large to view and judge. Also the community can post requests for the central volunteers to persue.
With all the illumianti hype, and the constant images of the eye in the pyramid, I suggest this central group be called “The Greater Eye of the Populus” or GEP. As a rival to that “evil eye”. :D In fact, the whole central website could be called that! Symbolizing that the eyes of the people have finally opened! :eek:

I hereby volunteer to the above central monitor :D

Here are my “Goals” I hope to see yours:

http://www.individualism.asia/Pages/Mega%20reform.html

http://www.individualism.asia/Pages/bills.html


4. One Flag

IMHO To gain any kind of recognition we must operate under one “flag” (such as GEP above). Because say we pick up steam and we start getting acts repealed and making real concrete changes, and media, and representatives, and corporate owners start having to take notice, it would not be taken seriously if one week they (whoever) get a letter, or witness a successful action from , “Joewebsite”, then 2 days later from “Campaign to end corrupt idiots”, the next day from “whatever”. So, IMHO, I believe if they realized that all these forces have “mutually pledged to each other their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor” and coalesced, organized into a cohesive whole, they might actually tremble, and slip. So the Ideal site, AND the movement as a whole, needs One flag, One unifying symbol, IMHO

5. Economy of Force

To illustrate: I love everyone, and want to help everyone, but time is limited. So, to spend great time and effort teaching the “real” way things work to a stubborn old man who never comes out of his house and talks to anyone anyway is a waste of your useful skills, effort and time - the force has been devoured, dead ended.

A. VIRAL EMPOWERING. OK the above example is wholly wasteful in time and energy to recruit an impotent soul, even if you dearly love them. Now a simple yet powerful website like this post speaks of, is little energy on our part with contact to many Potent individuals who then tell many individuals each of them empowered by our efficient tools and data base. We all already run our own sites, with the center site and a handful of volunteers = the economy I speak of. “1000 acorns rightfully placed will become 1000 oaks, otherwise they make but one meal for one Hog.”

B. KEY INDIVIDUALS
Your next door neighbor, or friend at work might be all well and fine to invest your time and energy into BUT. . . I suggest that that should be second priority. First priority is Key Figures, like Judges, Magistrates, Police chiefs, military service, and your immediate local government officials. Simply befriend them!! Then go to lunch/dinner a few times a month, reason with them . . . I have also found that the volunteer fire company is an excellent resource. The people who selflessly serve are genuine and good people. They quickly see the truth and they are Engrained into the locality, firemen seem to know everybody!! With a 1or2 hr talk at the fire hall, you could have many powerful allies viraling the movement throughout the entire community. Show a movie if you can’t talk, or if they aren’t into speeches, tailor a bit to the crowd. My only point is Economy of Force.

I Know the above seems Off Topic, but I needed it to lead into this next item:

6. Active website

I know this is common sense to almost all of us but I felt compelled to mention it. This Ideal Site needs to be actively pedaled by ALL of US! Not just on the web, but as you go through life, make business cards with the site and simply hand many out per day, remember the KEY FIGURES thought. Thus the popularity grows in the real and virtual world. Just making the website and sitting back . . . is passive and dead, we all know that.

Now on this Ideal Site, there is a link farm to ALL our independent sites. Thus as I said before, by working together on such a central site, we will actually exponentially empower our own sites, which will loop back to the “Archsite” which loops back to us, etc etc etc, exponential growth in a massive loop controlled by . . . US! We will dominate the search engines on liberty topics! This mechanism should encourage us all to work together on such a central site.

Also, eventually we could get mirroring for all our sites on all our servers (for those who have unlimited space) therefore, if the internet is ever threatened, or one of us singled out, none of us will easily be forced offline.

Finally:

7. Real world meetings of the site contributers/members.

We ALL should meet at least once per year in the center of the nation (simply to equalize travel distances), for a weekend event, fri night to sun eve. Preferably longer. Real world meeting strengthens the ties towards our brothers and sisters, and provides great encouragement, and more rapid exchange of ideas. This doesn’t have to be expensive, I even suggest an outdoor event, on a 15 acre farm, tents and camping type setup, reminding us (slightly) of the hardships of our founders and causing appreciation for our luxury and liberty, desiring to defend it even stronger. My friends often throw concerts like this with great success.

I hope I have contributed a few ideas, and thanks for tolerating my verbosity! :)

[ronpaulhawaii]

OK I am a Noob here, so holler if I step on any toes and I will get to the back of the bus. Sorry this is so long. :o

-- What follows is my image of an Ideal website for the “Liberty movement” composed of any sites liberty oriented, not jut Ron Paul. --

{If this is off topic, please delete, I actually thought it contributes.}

...
I hope I have contributed a few ideas, and thanks for tolerating my verbosity! :)

lol - Welcome to the forum



agreed
the tools I have proposed include the "Library", a survey tool, and an online meeting tool. The library would be the natural place downloadable materials, tutorials, reference materials, etc. Much of this can be built on Tangents work with OCH
Yes, defining a common set of principles is essential. This goes back to point #1. What has been proposed is keeping the portal's initial positioning to the "four points" agreed upon by RP and the major third parties during the last election cycle. I think we could expand upon these in the "parlor", but not necessarily in the "foyer" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=174416). You touch on many of the potential benefits of the portal and have obviously put some time into developing a plan/goal (that I do not have the time to dissect at the moment). In the interest of #1 though, I think this site should focus on the draft mission statement above, "To showcase the people, and organizations, who promote, and defend, the socio-economic value of liberty"
is debatable, and unlikely, regardless. If one flag arises in this movement, it will rise organically. I, also, wonder that representatives getting input from multiple organizations would have a good effect, as well.
fair enough...
That is the idea...
Agreed, but kinda OT, as well. An alliance would help with these kind of meetings and the meeting tool could help plan them.

I appreciate your input, I imagine toning down the verbosity would be better on a message board, but I'm just one voice...

A note about the meeting tool: one reason I am proposing this is cause I dislike conference calls for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the thought that my fellow campaigners are holding cel phones to their heads for hours...:eek:

[LibertyIn08]

Anyway we could merge this with Freeople and link news from LibertyMaven?

The more we unify the various sites, the better.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Anyway we could merge this with Freeople and link news from LibertyMaven?

The more we unify the various sites, the better.

You mention two of the best sites to come out of this movement and the hope is to promote them all by showcasing.

A convoy, rather than a bus...

If anyone wants to help, please PM; could use writers, graphic designers, and open-source web-gurus...

Thanks :)

[JoshLowry]

I can do some graphics work.

I'm hoping it is you that has already bought the domain names for OLA?! :eek:

[fr33domfightr]

Finally:

7. Real world meetings of the site contributers/members.

We ALL should meet at least once per year in the center of the nation (simply to equalize travel distances), for a weekend event, fri night to sun eve. Preferably longer. Real world meeting strengthens the ties towards our brothers and sisters, and provides great encouragement, and more rapid exchange of ideas. This doesn’t have to be expensive, I even suggest an outdoor event, on a 15 acre farm, tents and camping type setup, reminding us (slightly) of the hardships of our founders and causing appreciation for our luxury and liberty, desiring to defend it even stronger. My friends often throw concerts like this with great success.

I hope I have contributed a few ideas, and thanks for tolerating my verbosity! :)



It might be difficult or cumbersome to get everyone together in one place. What about multiple locations throughout the U.S. and use technology to link us together, like Video Conferencing?

I found this on Microsoft's website:

Windows Meeting Space gives you the ability to share documents, programs, or your desktop with other people whose computers are running Windows Vista. Some advantages are:

• You can share your desktop or any program with other meeting participants.

• You and other meeting participants can distribute and co-edit documents.

• You can pass notes to other participants.

• You can connect to a network projector to give a presentation.

Windows Meeting Space uses peer-to-peer technology and automatically sets up an ad hoc network if it can't find an existing network. So you can use it in a conference room, a favorite hotspot, or a place where no network exists. You can join a meeting that someone else sets up, or you can start a new meeting and invite other people to join it.


Maybe this could be setup in multiple locations throughout the U.S. and we could have a virtual U.S. conference.

You know, this just gave me an idea. Perhaps this could be used to link people in Meetup.com that are spread over the U.S. For instance, those in the high level End The Fed Meetup, http://www.meetup.com/End-The-Fed/ . I know they use teleconferencing, but maybe video would be nicer. StickAM or Ustream might come into play as well.


FF

[ronpaulhawaii]

I can do some graphics work.

I'm hoping it is you that has already bought the domain names for OLA?! :eek:

:) Yes, I bought OLA...

A few design needs are; logo submissions, page element/layout submissions, and themes for the survey tool. I imagine the front door and foyer need to be very simple and attractive, the parlor would be more of a traditional page, built on a theme we can maintain throughout the rest of the site... I am thinking the front two pages should be as simple as possible, so that people who pull up the site from a 3G phone will be able to easily see what we are about...

Thanks :) (and let me know if you want to play with the survey tool themes, I'll just need to create an account for you...)


It might be difficult or cumbersome to get everyone together in one place. What about multiple locations throughout the U.S. and use technology to link us together, like Video Conferencing?

I found this on Microsoft's website:

Windows Meeting Space gives you the ability to share documents, programs, or your desktop with other people whose computers are running Windows Vista. Some advantages are:

• You can share your desktop or any program with other meeting participants.

• You and other meeting participants can distribute and co-edit documents.

• You can pass notes to other participants.

• You can connect to a network projector to give a presentation.

Windows Meeting Space uses peer-to-peer technology and automatically sets up an ad hoc network if it can't find an existing network. So you can use it in a conference room, a favorite hotspot, or a place where no network exists. You can join a meeting that someone else sets up, or you can start a new meeting and invite other people to join it.


Maybe this could be setup in multiple locations throughout the U.S. and we could have a virtual U.S. conference.

You know, this just gave me an idea. Perhaps this could be used to link people in Meetup.com that are spread over the U.S. For instance, those in the high level End The Fed Meetup, http://www.meetup.com/End-The-Fed/ . I know they use teleconferencing, but maybe video would be nicer. StickAM or Ustream might come into play as well.


FF

I was thinking OpenMeetings (http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/) would be more suitable and customizable. Would love for an open source guy to go through it and see what they think. I am especially interested in if people would be able to call in to meetings from a phone...

[PitViper]

It might be difficult or cumbersome to get everyone together in one place. What about multiple locations throughout the U.S. and use technology to link us together, like Video Conferencing?


FF

I do agree, . . . I just think there is an important element in real world contact . . . a stronger binding force. Plus, sometimes things are best discussed face to face.

I do like the OpenMeeting. Never saw that before, me like:D

[PitViper]

lol - Welcome to the forum




the tools I have proposed include the "Library", a survey tool, and an online meeting tool. The library would be the natural place downloadable materials, tutorials, reference materials, etc. Much of this can be built on Tangents work with OCH
Yes, defining a common set of principles is essential. This goes back to point #1. What has been proposed is keeping the portal's initial positioning to the "four points" agreed upon by RP and the major third parties during the last election cycle. I think we could expand upon these in the "parlor", but not necessarily in the "foyer" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=174416). You touch on many of the potential benefits of the portal and have obviously put some time into developing a plan/goal (that I do not have the time to dissect at the moment). In the interest of #1 though, I think this site should focus on the draft mission statement above, "To showcase the people, and organizations, who promote, and defend, the socio-economic value of liberty"
is debatable, and unlikely, regardless. If one flag arises in this movement, it will rise organically. I, also, wonder that representatives getting input from multiple organizations would have a good effect, as well.
fair enough...
That is the idea...
Agreed, but kinda OT, as well. An alliance would help with these kind of meetings and the meeting tool could help plan them.

I appreciate your input, I imagine toning down the verbosity would be better on a message board, but I'm just one voice...

A note about the meeting tool: one reason I am proposing this is cause I dislike conference calls for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the thought that my fellow campaigners are holding cel phones to their heads for hours...:eek:

Thanks for the detailed response, I have a clearer image of your desires.

"I imagine toning down the verbosity would be better on a message board"

Will do so! I just got excited :D I get overjoyed when I find souls who are willing to act . . . and act wisely at that! There are so few anymore:(

[fight4liberty]

...(and let me know if you want to play with the survey tool themes, I'll just need to create an account for you...)

I'm not tracking with you when you say, "survey tool themes". Please clarify. What would be an example of a "survey tool theme"? :confused:

[ronpaulhawaii]

The survey tool, limesurvey, has a, "Template editor for creating your own page layout" (http://www.limesurvey.org/content/view/13/80/lang,en/)

The test survey I made was very bland and I imagine it could be dressed up a bit.

Along those same lines, I have gotten a request for Candidate surveys tailored to our movement for preliminary vetting. I have been looking at various surveys, but if someone wants to work on that, the help would be much appreciated. I imagine we could build question sets in the WIKI...

and PitViper, lol :) Excitement can be infectious :D

Thanks all :)

[ronpaulhawaii]

What do people think of "www.fourpointsalliance.com" ?

[mediahasyou]

What do people think of "www.fourpointsalliance.com" ?

libertyhub.org

[wizardwatson]

A few thoughts.

I think starting off with a good "send to" page for those new to the ideas of liberty would be great. Start off simple on the main page, then break it down into topics (sound money, civil liberties, health freedom) and explain the current problems with each then show how this results from bad government policies. At the end of each section provide a link to the related liberty forest forum "for your own discussion on this".

We need some guiding principles for the org and for anyone who is to assume some leadership. For example, IMO, to keep it pure and true it should be a totally non-paid grassroots org that seeks no profit for anyone. Transparency in income vs. expenses is good. IMO, we need a model that people will feel happy to contribute to and not feel later like they or their work is being taken advantage of. We need to be like an open-source resource for the freedom movement, maybe write a public license (GNU style) that we can put all works under. We need to define these principles, ones that can never change. We need leaders who will openly pledge to support those principles.

I agree the archive here is a treasure trove, and I've always tried to treat it accordingly-- which is also a large part of why it is of great value to POST TOPICS IN THE BEST FIT SUB-FORUM so the archives can be as useful as possible and not just a big blob.

In a sorts, RPFs has always been the anti-thesis of "all politics is local" - the community here has always allowed for sharing of best practices, information and talent with collaborating on projects. We're not a meet-up replacement, just a world wide gather place (and have had solid international contributors that have ended up making a difference on various local levels). We can use and leverage the CFL tools (which of course we'll all basically totally support) but our organization model is different (open source and grassroots), and as I said in PM, there are some areas they aren't going to want to touch that we can.

I talked to Liberty Eagle some last weekend, she had some good ideas- hope she will post (or I will for her).

This is the important part. (what is bolded) Most everything else I see on this thread is related to feed aggregation and trying to universalize the liberty message which won't work. People need to be approached from their own perspective. We need a networked and integrated backbone but MORE not less entry points.

[wizardwatson]

The problem with OpenID is that the client sites (the ones you log into) need to have it supported on the application level. And while most common cms/blog systems have some sort of openID plugin (Joomla/Wordpress/Drupal/etc), there is the possibility that the underlying server backend (such as PHP) lacks the ability to run the plugins :/ So if you're still running php 4 then there is a good chance you are out of luck.

The other issue is that you log in with a url and not a username/pass.

But yes if you could go around the hurdles of OpenID it would work, and you'd get the benefit of prepackaged plugins (sadly some work and some dont) and libraries. The other option is a new system altogether, which could be simple and secured with ssl, but libraries/plugins would need to be written for common platforms.

Yes, OpenID requires that the RP (Relying Party; i.e. the website that uses OpenID) have a application level plugin, but Janrain's newest (came out in '09 I think) solution is called RPX. It's rather nifty and allows users to login with their Yahoo/Facebook/Google account among others. And it is even simpler than the free plug-in libraries (that you'd use for standard OpenID) to implement.

But OpenID is a convenience issue (SSO - Single Sign On) is isn't an identity management mechanism, which is something that would be much cooler to have for a liberty type alliance.

[mediahasyou]

I would start out simple as a blog and add on later if we must. We should get this up and going though.

How close to finishing are you, RPH?

[Aakron]

There seem to be two projects that are being talked about here.

One is an alliance site, and the other is a portal.

James recommends people combine their sites. That won't happen. People enjoy running their websites and having control over their individual projects that they have started. That's why I think some sort of alliance is our best bet. It is a pain in the ass to keep up with ten different sites but I think the purpose of the footer is that the best run website will attract people from all over and the mass will naturally collaborate there.


Agreed! I'm creating the CommunityCrown.com website and would not hand full control over to another individual. Whether or not I'd somehow hand it out to the community at large is another idea completely though.


RPF/LF are just forums at the moment. I'd love to make it "the" portal with a snazzy front page but I need to find a good web person. I don't plan on turning this website over to a board. I'm going to send an email out and start looking for someone to turn RPF/LF into more than just forums...

You don't need to find a good web person. Projects can get done *very* cheaply through Rentacoder. My website is going to get done for less than $200, BUT I do know a lot of website programming. If I didn't know any programming at all I could still have done it for under $500.

[quote]We should start some kind of footer alliance and have it move over to a non-profit board. It seems to be the best way to include everyone and avoid stepping on toes. For the first go about you could reach out to BreakTheMatrix, LibertyForest/RPF, Free State Project, Operation Cat Herder, EndTheFed, RestoreTheRepublic, The Freedom Revolution, CFL, FreedomsGround, Freeople, Revolution Broadcasting, The Free Turkey, I'm sure I missed others... All of these sites would have a nicely designed footer at the bottom of every page. I don't know if we call it the Online Liberty Alliance as there is already a "Liberty Alliance" but names are easy to come up with. This should be a nuetral organization.[quote]

This is a great idea. However, it should have a membership requirement. I mean, I don't think my website deserves to be part of the list unless it can get at least a certain number of members, visitors, supporters, or something of that nature. Furthermore, the footer will grow to some size too large quickly. Should it not be limited to about 15 or 20 websites?

[Aakron]

Also, I think the ingredients of any portal include:
1. News
2. A search engine
3. Directories, Information References, Etc.
4. Free Email/Messaging Services

1. In terms of news I was actually working before reading this is as follows:
Give anybody who wants one a "channel". So Liberty Forest could get a channel, BreakTheMatrix could get a channel, etc. Then have a digg-like system to vote up any of the news from any of the channels.
2. Expensive! Instead of search engines perhaps we could have a directory where the search function simply searches for websites rather than individual pages? At least that is what I was thinking about programming into my own website.
3. Very easy, and I don't know why this has not been done already. It could work similar to DMOZ only better because we would update a lot more than one time every three years or so.
4. I'm not sure how easy it would be to automatically set up new email accounts for anybody who wants one. I do however know that it should be encrypted and private like hushmail.

But also important, in terms of collaboration, my idea is to do these two steps:
1. Allow approved websites to stash certain information in a public database
2. Allow those same websites to grab information from that database for their own use.

For example, Liberty Forest could put their number of members logged in over the last 24 hours in the public database. Then, RonPaulGraphs for example could grab that number and put it into a graph. This is something I actually started to impliment but some how lost track of that goal.

[tangent4ronpaul]

This is a great idea. However, it should have a membership requirement. I mean, I don't think my website deserves to be part of the list unless it can get at least a certain number of members, visitors, supporters, or something of that nature. Furthermore, the footer will grow to some size too large quickly. Should it not be limited to about 15 or 20 websites?

I don't know about a "membership requirement" - OCH doesn't really have "members". We have a smaller number of volunteers/participants/contributors. People that actually do things. We don't collect members - we collect and distribute information. Don't even know how many individual visitors we've had, but we have had over 87,000 page views and had over 40 people working on projects at a time.

Other sites are similar - ronpaullibrary, ronpaulmusic, ronpaulvideo, etc. They don't have members - just resources.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Ron Paul Hawaii wrote:

> 1.the tools I have proposed include the "Library", a survey tool, and an online meeting tool. The library would be the natural place downloadable materials, tutorials, reference materials, etc. Much of this can be built on Tangents work with OCH


Well, let me throw my 2 cents into the equation...

First we need to figure out what we want to do, what resources and people (skills) will be needed to do that and establish a critical path for what order things need to happen in. Some of these things are happening in this thread.

The movement, this project and OCH needs volunteers. Two principles here:

A – A single “opt in” volunteer form that lets people volunteer for whatever they are interested in working on is much more productive than doing a recruiting program for every particular project. Integrating an opt in into a main site – say on the start page, for projects that pop up would be ideal for the projects that pop up as we get going.

B – The appearance of activity and product to show for it, encourages people to step up and volunteer. A vision doesn't cut it. We need “meat” on the table.


On a survey tool – OCH uses survey monkey. Advantages: exports to spreadsheets, unlimited surveys and responses (premium version). Disadvantages: costs money, not that robust. We would welcome an alternative that did the same for free. In general, I view such tools as a way to collect information and volunteers for projects. For the most part, I really don't care what “the choir” thinks about an issue (It's not representative of the populace), but people like to participate in polls and have their opinion expressed – so it's a good tool to encourage repeat visits. It also helps build community.


On focus – everything the CFL won't touch and we can as well as everywhere they are duplicating our efforts and doing it very poorly. The natural “sweet spot” for us is the 2010 Congressional elections. This would suggest an alliance with the Replace Congress project. Some reservations I have with that project is that they base it on 3 principles, as opposed to RP's 4. And they have not gotten back about the candidates they claim are on board. It's worth looking at what happened before and what we need to do again in this area:

There were Two sites that listed candidates. This is obviously what “Replace Congress” wishes to do – list candidates. We need to do this again. Unfortunately, candidates were removed as they dropped out or were defeated. OCH also has a list of candidates, but only lists 49 of them. I believe we had around 80 initially. We need to contact all these people and see if they would be willing to run again. Further, we need to contact our base and see who might step up! A number of people have publicly stated a willingness to run on various forums – we need to data mine and FIND THEM! In support of this, we need to reach out on a national level and gather volunteers – both to work on campaigns in their local area but also to act as a pool of workers for things like mailings and phone banking in a more broad perspective.

http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Our_Candidates

Two projects were established to provide a “Campaign in a Box” for candidates. These merged and eventually transformed into the skills bank. We need to continue this, and not just for the candidates. By “this” I mean both the original concept of software tools/website/tutorials as well as technical volunteers willing to help any project/campaign (The Skills Bank).

Then we had the Candidates Meetup. It's really hard to judge how successful that was. Roughly half the campaigns active at the time, joined. The idea was to share enthusiasm and strategies. The newer candidates chatted a lot, one former candidate helped the new folks. The ones that had done this before, tended to be very quiet or used back channels as we provided everyones contact info online. This was a closed, invite only and very quiet group.. We need to FIX this! (lack of communication) What we did provide is complete access to the skills bank and one person was mentoring people on Voter Vault. We were also trying to get people experienced in running phone bank and robo-calling projects organized and hooked up with campaigns, though this didn't work out well. Partially due to scattering to the wind and trying to track down folks, and also due to people protecting “turf” - something we need to get over, as the technology will be needed on a very local basis. Related was trying to gather voter registration databases – another project that needs to go further, as not all our candidates will be Republicans and thus qualify for Voter Vault access. We also made efforts to hook candidates up with bands for fund raisers.

A secondary problem with all campaigns was the lack of “boots on the ground”. Tons of people wanted to support Paul, but wouldn't support a local Congressional candidate. As there will be no presidential candidate in 2010, we should be able to get devoted people for this cause without distraction.

This brings us back to another Cat Herder project – that of tracking, re-contacting and networking all the grassroots groups out there. With the presidential campaign winding down and C4L coming into existence groups went away, merged, changed names, etc. It's become a huge mess and we don't know exactly who is still out there and how active. There are, however, over 1,000 Meetups still around. While we have a rough idea and a lot of contact information, an effort needs to be made again to get an accurate accounting and contact people again. Specifically, to find supporters and potential candidates:

The low fruit:
Contact those candidates that ran before.
Members of active forums, usergroups and Meetups.

A bit harder:
Those people that expressed that they wanted to run in 2010. This is a data mining project.

Much Harder:
C4L members – must be messaged individually.
Former members of defunct Meetups – again, must be messaged individually as they will be listed as “looking for a Ron Paul Meetup”, but the best bet is to try contacting the former Meetup organizers and asking who was most active and if they have contact info. Even just a list of names will tell who would be most useful to contact. We don't need everyone back – just the 10% that will actually get out there and do stuff.
Lastly, those individuals that donated to Ron Paul. These folks will have to be tracked down via phone books and reverse directories, and as a last resort, by mailing them. Data mining could reduce manual labor in most of these areas.

OK – that should cover re-activating the movement and getting supporters for candidates as well as candidates. We still need to deal with getting staffs and the “little problem” of a lot of these folks not having a clue about how to run for office, but we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves here...

Really, the first thing we should be doing is looking at every House and Senate seat. Some are friends of liberty and don't need to be replaced. Who's left? - that's where our focus should be.

While we should have a chance for every House seat, Senate seats are up every 6 years, so we only have a chance of winning a third of them. 16 Democratic seats are up next time so if 3 states backed each candidate trying to unseat a Dem Senator, that might give us a better chance. Here's a list of when Senate terms are up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_Senators#Members


So anyway, other than re-mapping (State by State status) and working to re-activating the grassroots, some subsections of OCH that are relevant and could be plugged in to the portal include:

The Grassroots Roadmap – listing of RP / Liberty sites maintained by Snapple Lama. This listing might be good to look at to see what other content might be drawn in and useful.

The Skills Bank – ideally in collaboration with RPF, and possibly other sites. We really need to get a grassroots technical group back together.

The Bands 4 Ron Paul project. - ALL these bands need to be contacted, a directory and DB put together and organized to do fund raiser concerts, Ronstalks and ideally resurrect the CD project to record and send music to college, alternative, etc. radio stations. This will take a lot of either manpower or time due to Myspaces anti-spam policies.

The Grassroots Field Manual is pretty dormant, but could make good content. It needs work though.

Grassroots Classifieds is also dormant, but will become relative again.

Congress Critter contact info needs updating, but again useful reference material for content.

The Liberty Library only has 3 items in it, but it's a good start for that kind of a section.

Running for public office – again, not a lot in this section – but a start.

Our Candidates could be revamped to be a road map for recruiting and supporting 2010 candidates.

Past Events might be a starter for a Grassroots History section.

One section of the above is Cat Wrangler, that with it's associated tool (program) would be good to help automate the mass contact projects again.

Anyway, those are my thoughts for now,

-t

[PitViper]

Question:

Until the "master" site is hashed out and created, what about immediately setting up:

1. A simple "Liberty Alliance Web ring" (LAW lol!) :D

2. a simple sticky alert banner posted initially on this site and then given to all sites who join the ring (to post on their site).

3. A master webring directory that shows all on the ring in a few different selectable views, like:

by Specialty Focus (taxes, end the fed, militias etc)
by popularity
by design (forum, news, activists etc.)
by alphabetically
by "rating"
by Whatever . . .

Directory Must include full contact info of all on ring because the people on the ring will use that directory to get in touch with like minded websites to pull and share resources, empowering each others efforts.
eventually a "rating" system could also be listed on the directory, which would allow people to describe their experiences (or dispute) they had with each site.
Example:

"I tried too contact site XYZ and asked to share ABC and they were very rude and said GFU!" This will allow all of us to see who is truly an Ally.

A Simple Welcome letter sent to all who join the ring, listing that (reasonable) cooperation is expected - with no threats other than the honest rating system.

Also little icons on the master directory next to each site showing "Allied with" and/or a bar or pie graph (like webalizer) showing which site cooperates with each other site and to what extent.

In that way the organic growth of the "Fronts" or Forces, will be able to be seen by all.

Example: XYZ and ABC site are always cooperating and are always involved in real world court cases. GG, HH an JJ websites all often work together cause they all are adept at news media, so you or I knowing this, will go to this "Front" for news media assistance or the other "front" if we wind up in court! Thus, we become One efficient unit of independent cells! Sovereignty Maintained Sir! :D

and . . .

4. A master "resource pool" (listed on the directory) where any one can contribute anything, links, events, mailing lists, . . . possibly a wiki would do this. This is just shared stuff which can empower any on the ring.

If this already exists, please clue me in. :D

[ronpaulhawaii]

Wow, I was flat on my back sick for a couple few days and this thread had some action :) It'll take me a bit to go through this and I have some theater gigs this week so will be busy...

As far as how far I have gotten along, I'm usually working on multiple projects and this is just one of them. I could use help... One member has been kind enough to build a database of quotes, we already have lists of sites and such (in the wiki thanks to RCA).

We need submissions for a welcome statement, position statements for the four points, and and submissions for overall design. We, also, need web gurus to help out. I have to go to NYC today for some rehearsals, but am back in the saddle and will be putting more time into this project.

I'm glad to see some action here

:)

[sarahdeez]

I was just checking for progress. After much discussion we are converting our local Ron Paul meetup to a C4L group and would love to refer prospects to a page like we have been discussing.