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BeFranklin
12-05-2008, 05:34 PM
A different perspective. This would also allow bringing into evidence Obama's natural born British citizenship that came from his father's parentage - apart from the certificate of birth (the other proof).

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news.cfm?newsid=20210273


Mr. Vieira explained although legal standing is difficult to get around in Federal courts, the document could be produced in any criminal cases stemming from legislation passed in the Obama administration.

"Let's assume that an Obama administration passes some of these controversial pieces of legislation he has been promising to go for, like the FOCA (Freedom of Choice) Act," said Mr. Vieira. "I would assume that some of those surely will have some severe civil or criminal penalties attached to them for violation. You are now the criminal defendant under this statute, which was passed by an Obama Congress and signed by President Obama. Your defense is that is not a statute because Mr. Obama is not the president. You now have a right and I have never heard this challenged, to subpoena in a criminal case, anyone who has relevant evidence relating to your defenses. And you can subpoena them duces tecum, meaning 'you shall bring with you the documents.' "

Such a criminal defense would enable the defendant to subpoena any person to testify in court and any person to bring evidence in their possession to the court.

Further, records could be subpoenaed directly, in the case of a birth certificate. Once the record could be subpoenaed, the birth certificate could be examined by forensic experts, who would then be able to testify to the document's veracity as expert witnesses. Any movement by the judges to make a special exception to the president in a criminal case would hurt the legitimacy of that presidential administration.

"I can't believe I'm the only lawyer who would think of this," said Mr. Vieira. "I think any criminal lawyer defending against one of these politically charged statutes is going to come up with this. That means it will never go away until that document is laid down on the table and people say, 'yes, there it is.' And therefore they're caught. If people keep challenging this and the judges out of fear keep saying 'no, go to jail, go to jail, go to jail' then that's the end of the Obama administration's legitimacy. On the other hand if they open the file and it's not there, then that's really the end of the administration's legitimacy."

torchbearer
12-05-2008, 05:36 PM
bookmarked this thread.

BeFranklin
12-05-2008, 06:01 PM
Might as well put some of the places to get current news:

Philip J Berg Lawsuit Donofrio versus Wells
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/
Lawsuit currently on Supreme Court's step. This one is about Obama being a natural born British citizen at birth through his father.

Lawsuit from Alan Keyes
http://www.soundinvestments.us/files/final_writ_keyes_v_bowen.pdf
This is the lawsuit by Keyes over Obama's birthplace. Keyes could be said to have a direct interest in the matter by being a candidate, and therefore standing.

Orly Tatz (see above writ)
http://drorly.blogspot.com/

Gary G. Kreep (see above writ)
Executive Director United States Justice Foundation
http://www.usjf.net/

BeFranklin
12-05-2008, 06:22 PM
bookmarked this thread.

Thanks. Added some links to current cases, but at the point Obama hits president, they aren't going to be able to conceal it anymore as above.

lynnf
12-05-2008, 08:29 PM
here's why it won't go away unless the court issues a ruling:

there are plans to sue each time an Obama administration action takes place if this issue is not settled. this would theoretically bog down the administration so nothing would get done until the issue is settled.

lynn

scandinaviany3
12-05-2008, 10:21 PM
that will be very intense...

BeFranklin
12-06-2008, 07:54 AM
Here's Donofrio's blog (the lawyer whose case is being looked at to see if the Supreme Court will hear it. His arguments are a lot like the ones I've been posting the whole time. Maybe his case is being looked at because its a stong argument.

http://www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/article/29871.html

BeFranklin
12-06-2008, 08:48 AM
here's why it won't go away unless the court issues a ruling:

there are plans to sue each time an Obama administration action takes place if this issue is not settled. this would theoretically bog down the administration so nothing would get done until the issue is settled.

lynn

You need to reread what the lawyer in the first post said.

"If people keep challenging this and the judges out of fear keep saying 'no, go to jail, go to jail, go to jail' then that's the end of the Obama administration's legitimacy. On the other hand if they open the file and it's not there, then that's really the end of the administration's legitimacy."

lynnf
12-06-2008, 08:57 AM
You need to reread what the lawyer in the first post said.

"If people keep challenging this and the judges out of fear keep saying 'no, go to jail, go to jail, go to jail' then that's the end of the Obama administration's legitimacy. On the other hand if they open the file and it's not there, then that's really the end of the administration's legitimacy."



not really, that first post refers to criminal cases, I refer to civil cases; different animals.

lynn

BeFranklin
12-06-2008, 09:05 AM
not really, that first post refers to criminal cases, I refer to civil cases; different animals.

lynn

No kidding. The whole point of this thread is not the civil cases, but the criminal cases, and why the issue won't go away because of that. :confused:

lynnf
12-06-2008, 09:30 AM
No kidding. The whole point of this thread is not the civil cases, but the criminal cases, and why the issue won't go away because of that. :confused:


agreed; but I'm pointing out that it is at least twice as likely that it won't go away because of the civil cases -- the number of possible criminal cases is limited whereas the number of possible civil cases is unlimited - one for every action that the administration takes.

lynn

BeFranklin
12-06-2008, 11:06 AM
agreed; but I'm pointing out that it is at least twice as likely that it won't go away because of the civil cases -- the number of possible criminal cases is limited whereas the number of possible civil cases is unlimited - one for every action that the administration takes.

lynn

The criminal cases have (will have) the power to produce the birth certificate, but the civil cases can't. What the lawyer is pointing out, if they deny that criminal case after criminal case, the whole house of cards comes down.

BeFranklin
12-06-2008, 11:18 AM
The criminal cases have (will have) the power to produce the birth certificate, but the civil cases can't. What the lawyer is pointing out, if they deny that criminal case after criminal case, the whole house of cards comes down.

"Should Senator Obama be discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President of the United States of America and, thereby, his election declared void, Petitioners, as well as other Americans, will suffer irreparable harm in that (a) usurper will be sitting as the President of the United States, and none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal," the action challenges.
Alan Keyes

torchbearer
12-06-2008, 02:26 PM
"Should Senator Obama be discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President of the United States of America and, thereby, his election declared void, Petitioners, as well as other Americans, will suffer irreparable harm in that (a) usurper will be sitting as the President of the United States, and none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal," the action challenges.
Alan Keyes

I was thinking about this today... if he is found to be not qualified.. then he lied on 50 different qualifying forms... signed statements attesting that all the information provided is truth.
I'm sure there are penalties for lying to the state under affidavit.

BeFranklin
12-19-2008, 02:03 PM
Seems like a good thread to post this to.

The original complaint from Berg that he is not a natural born citizenship is still on and scheduled to be heard January 9th.
Seems some people reported what was dismissed wrong (ie Worldnetdaily)

Writ of Certiorari is still pending and is now scheduled for Conference before U.S. Supreme Court on January 9, 2009.
http://www.obamacrimes.com/ (Berg's site)

lynnf
12-19-2008, 05:39 PM
I was thinking about this today... if he is found to be not qualified.. then he lied on 50 different qualifying forms... signed statements attesting that all the information provided is truth.
I'm sure there are penalties for lying to the state under affidavit.


but if he makes it into office, he can't be arrested until after his term ends and whoever succeeds him will likely pardon him. if he doesn't take office, McCain would no doubt pardon him if McCain gets in, and surely any Democrat that got in would pardon him. and impeachment? Democrats in control of that, they won't even impeach Bush and before that they did impeach Clinton but wouldn't go any farther with a punishment. that's probably going nowhere unless like Nader or other no-name candidate were to get in, but that's very unlikely.

lynn

bojo68
12-19-2008, 06:15 PM
Seems like a good thread to post this to.

The original complaint from Berg that he is not a natural born citizenship is still on and scheduled to be heard January 9th.
Seems some people reported what was dismissed wrong (ie Worldnetdaily)

Writ of Certiorari is still pending and is now scheduled for Conference before U.S. Supreme Court on January 9, 2009.
http://www.obamacrimes.com/ (Berg's site)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83980