The REAL Anita Andrews

[Misesian]

I've seen some posts on here about her and I was also at the FL session and I try my best to give everybody a fair shake and I really think some of you guys are NOT giving her a fair shake.

The message/tactics she gave us WOULD deliver us a win undoubtedly if we followed this plan. Now I personally would say that I agree with about 90-95% of what she said.

I was the one who brought up the issue of the rEVOLution logo to her too considering how it's become the de facto trademark brand of this grassroots revolution. She pretty much flat out stated that NO we cannot use that anymore if we expect to win. This is something I both disagree and agree with. We cannot just up and out DITCH this logo as many of us have materials that still have this on there. However she has a valid point in that this does not appeal towards the 90% as Ron Paul's message/sign does of "Hope For America" or even "Peace, Prosperity, Freedom". This message wouldn't put off anybody like the rEVOLution probably does. Though I don't think the official message would attract the real revolutionaries as the rEVOLution will as well. What I plan on doing is phasing out the usage of the rEVOLution logo as it comes around to the point of 6-8 weeks before our primary.

Now I cannot question her support and determination of getting Ron Paul elected as I've heard from some people here. Do I think she is libertarian minded and "gets it" as far as government goes? I'm not so sure, but she is definitely supporting Ron Paul. You have to also consider that as a campaign advistor/strategist you will end up representing different ideologies every single campaign so I'd imagine it's difficult for these types to get too emotionally attached to a particular campaign. Though it is evident she is anti (female) socialist and also a question was asked of her by an attendee on what is actually shady about RP's positions/past and she didn't know of any but firmly stated how there is absolutely "nothing shady about Ron".

She wants us to win, she wants to win, she's offering her advice. The best advice I would say it to also take 90-95% of it but don't forget that you're an individual and NOT a robot so even if she has a 91% success rate she does not have that 100% and incorporate your own style into what she has taught us.

She IS listed as a member of the campaign' staff on their website and I don't think it matters how long she's been up there. Saying she would sue is blown out of proportion. This is what she does, this is her own private property and we sign a contractual obligation to NOT violate her property. We all know about property rights so if you are guilty of violating hers than she has every right to seek damages.

Again, if you haven't had her training session yet do NOT form a judgement about her and her strategies (even from my post) until you attend it. I'd recommend EVERYBODY do what they can to attend this as well. When you do attend please also keep an open mind, and also do not ask a million questions and do not answer questions for her as well. This happened a lot in the FL session and caused a couple of people to unprofessionally blow their gaskets.

I just hope this controversy around Anita Andrews could be dropped already and you guys can listen to what advice she has to give us (as hired by the campaign to do so) to help ensure WE WIN.

[Mr. White]

Bump for rational thinking

[MsDoodahs]

but she is definitely supporting Ron Paul.


She wants us to win, she wants to win,


Saying she would sue is blown out of proportion.



:)

Much better.

[Kregener]

To be honest, I never did like the "Love" Revolution sign. At all.

[beermotor]

There's nothing rational about the way people try to protect intellectual property anymore, nothing whatsoever. Let us not forget, this is not land, this ideas and words.

You put chains on that and you put chains on everyone, every single one of us. It is fundamentally incompatible with the very notion of revolutionary change, the thing that Ron Paul represents. She may be able to hack out a win for Paul, but what does it profit a man to win the world if he lose his soul? While this may not be exactly a soul-losing scenario, I am deeply troubled by the more "mainstream" and "focus-group tested" crap I have been hearing about. It is antithetical to the grassroots movement.

[constituent]

beermotor...

i don't know how old you are, but i think it is a generational thing. my first year of college was napster at almost 100meg/second... software, let's not even get in to that one...

yea, intellectual property rights are a load of crap. but if they want to claim them, let 'em... In the intellectual field of battle, time is on our side.

i'm sure anita andrews will do great things for the campaign, and i'm sure that those who follow her suggestions will be glad they did so... this is really kinda a way of broadening accessability and hopefully splintering us a little bit, lest the knives come out before we get to the primary season...

an official campaign liason of sorts is a good thing for those wanting to get involved in an official organized campaign... for those who like the guerilla style
tactics that have gotten us this far, keep it up. you're right, the official campaign idea is antithetical to the grassroots idea...

but that's what some folks are looking for.

however, we need to call a truce between the two factions. try not to dog the "official" efforts, and try not to dog the "grassroots" effort. if you disagree w/ someone on something, agree to disagree and just make sure you work that much harder to ensure that their achievements are eclipsed by your own....

but don't waste each other's time derailing threads and projects w/ petty bickering and scorn (go ahead if you want to, but from here on out you'll
be a complete wanker for salting the wounds). and that's a message to everyone (feel free to shout me down).

[micahnelson]

There's nothing rational about the way people try to protect intellectual property anymore, nothing whatsoever. Let us not forget, this is not land, this ideas and words.

You put chains on that and you put chains on everyone, every single one of us. It is fundamentally incompatible with the very notion of revolutionary change, the thing that Ron Paul represents. She may be able to hack out a win for Paul, but what does it profit a man to win the world if he lose his soul? While this may not be exactly a soul-losing scenario, I am deeply troubled by the more "mainstream" and "focus-group tested" crap I have been hearing about. It is antithetical to the grassroots movement.

Then don't get involved with it. As far as property rights being just about land...

"To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;"

[beermotor]

Then don't get involved with it. As far as property rights being just about land...

"To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;"


It was never intended to be in perpetuity, like it is nowadays. Note that the limited times has been extended... from wikipedia - With the passage of the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, these works are granted copyright protection for a term ending 70 years after the death of the author. If the work was a work for hire (e.g., those created by a corporation) then copyright persists for 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication, whichever is shortest. Not exactly a constitutional "limited time" do ya think? I mean, this is sorta like how the Supreme Court has said money doesn't really have to be gold or silver . . .

At any rate, I didn't get involved in it. To each his own, as I have said; however, that means I get to say my piece, too, ya know.

[MsDoodahs]

http://xkcd.com/294/

(tips hat to AGregory at LRCblog)

[Mr. White]

Intellectual property rights are meant to encourage innovation by allowing the innovator to profit and recoup the cost.

While from a Disney's Pocahontas standpoint your idea of not owning ideas looks nice, from society's standpoint it doesn't hold water.

Consider it analogous to the production of a drug. If a pharmaceutical company spends millions on research, they are entitled to the fruits of their labor are they not? What if a worker in their plant took their research and provided it to the public allowing for anyone to make that pill for free? Companies would be much more reluctant to spend on research what they had no hope of getting back.

Anita is being paid for her ideas. If you provide those ideas to others, you deny her the fruits of her labor.

That being said should you choose to violate that right (a reasonable decision under the circumstances) you should be prepared to face society's punishment.

Common law exists for a reason in that it allows society to work towards achieving the greatest collective benefit.

[nullvalu]

Yeah copyright laws need to go back to the original 25 years (i think?).. I've heard that the Disney Corp had a lot to do with the copyright extension.

[Misesian]

Intellectual property rights are meant to encourage innovation by allowing the innovator to profit and recoup the cost.

While from a Disney's Pocahontas standpoint your idea of not owning ideas looks nice, from society's standpoint it doesn't hold water.

Consider it analogous to the production of a drug. If a pharmaceutical company spends millions on research, they are entitled to the fruits of their labor are they not? What if a worker in their plant took their research and provided it to the public allowing for anyone to make that pill for free? Companies would be much more reluctant to spend on research what they had no hope of getting back.

Anita is being paid for her ideas. If you provide those ideas to others, you deny her the fruits of her labor.

That being said should you choose to violate that right (a reasonable decision under the circumstances) you should be prepared to face society's punishment.

Common law exists for a reason in that it allows society to work towards achieving the greatest collective benefit.

Well said Mr. White.

Not to mention we all had the ability to get up and leave without signing the Non-Disclosure Agreement.

If we are not to respect contract law, or think that property is limited to land, than we must go back to Mises 101.

The bottom line is that Anita's training sessions are extremely valuable, and in the end they are suggestions. You are not FORCED to listen to 100% of what she has to say and I don't think we should because this campaign is non-orthodox. We haven't had one probably since Barry Goldwater and ours is probably even more revolutionary than his due to the growth of the powers that be since that time.

Simply keep an open mind, and incorporate her ideas into what you're already doing and we will win.

[Misesian]

To be honest, I never did like the "Love" Revolution sign. At all.

I actually hated it at first. I thought the emphasis on the LOVE made us look like hippies.

Though then I got it and the sign grew on me. This is probably the last chance we have this being a rEVOLution because if we fail, than sooner or later it's going to have be another bloody Revolution if we could even win that.

Though she is right, the logo appeals to US here in this forum and in the meetup groups. Though we are only the 10% and we have to appeal to the 90% in order to get their votes and win.

I think for the smaller/newer groups that haven't been very active we can give the rEVOLution stuff to them to get them going but for those active and established groups that logo has served its purpose for us now so we have to move on to the 90% appeal which is the stuff they are using at RonPaul2008.com

[murph]

As someone who has had the privelege of attending one of Anita Andrews' meetings, I fully agree Misesian. Are we going to do 100% of everything she said? Probably not. However our local group is much better off because of what she taught us.

The training does not say to stop grass roots activities - rallies, handing out literature, collecting ballot petition signatures, etc. What I learned that there is a way to do these things far more effectively by having a coordinated plan aimed at a goal.

Most of us have figured out "what" to do already. Her training answers the "when" and "where" to have the greatest impact.

[constituent]

it is all about audience... i know here (in victoria) the revolution theme doesn't make any sense b/c everyone would just say,

"Ron Paul, what's revolutionary about that?"

[LibertyBelle]

To be honest, I never did like the "Love" Revolution sign. At all.

I never liked it because that symbol looked like something Dr. Evil would come up with. That red symbol on the black. It had a negative effect on me. Just being honest.

[katao]

Is there a schedule for future trainings? Anything out west?

[katao]

Much of the appeal for the Revolution signs by Meetup groups is cost - inexpensive, quick to do, etc. How does Anita suggest we produce/obtain better, more official signage for name recognition? I want to follow campaign suggestions when they make sense, but we need alternatives fast.

[Misesian]

Much of the appeal for the Revolution signs by Meetup groups is cost - inexpensive, quick to do, etc. How does Anita suggest we produce/obtain better, more official signage for name recognition? I want to follow campaign suggestions when they make sense, but we need alternatives fast.

katao,

the inexpensiveness, cost, quickness, etc. would all apply just the same to a different logo with another message on it.

She said that there needs to be 3 things for an effective sign.

1. The message
2. Ron Paul For President
3. The phone number (they're working on a new fully featured one now but until then you could just use the URL). Also overall it appears that phone numbers are better than URL's.

[constituent]

misesian-

so 800-Ron-Paul then?

[mdh]

To be honest, I never did like the "Love" Revolution sign. At all.

Most of them fail at simply putting forward a message. Any message. Seeing the revolution banners does nothing for someone who doesn't know who Ron Paul is. Something that says "Ron Paul 2008" or something about the presidency/presidential election is much more straight-forward and much more efficient at getting the simple point across that Dr. Paul is running for president in 2008. :)

[Stealth4]

Please be careful what you say on this forum regarding what was discussed in those meetings with AA.

I think the groups would do very well to consider what she says.

My thought regarding campaigning has always been lets follow Dr. Pauls example. How he handled Hannity post debate was inspiring to me. He made Hannity laugh twice when Hannity was being rude. He also didnt react angrily when Hannity was being an ass.

What I've learned is what we have to kill them with kindness and set the example for others to follow. Anger is a natural reaction, but we need to learn to use it in a positive way (I now do not write any angry emails to newspapers or stations. I write thoughtful emails, using spell check and proof-reading twice) We dont need to oversaturate - we need to express ourselves well.

I suggest meetup groups do at least one charity event en-mass, wearing ron paul shirts. Help your community and make people aware of RP in a positive way.

Lets keep this positive.

Cheers,

-Mark

[michaelwise]

I must disagree with Anita on the Revolution banners. She is thinking old school. This campaign involves many young tech and internet savvy voters. The young voters are becoming a powerful base for the Ron Paul campaign. The revolution banners appeal to the young idealistic voters. However, her opinion is not completely wrong. The use of the revolution banners should be tempered. They will work well on college campuses, concert venues, and other places where young people gather. They can also be used in the proper proportion in local areas of young voters to older voters. What I mean by this is one revolution banner to to 5 other Ron Paul banners. That's my opinion.

[constituent]

What I mean by this is one revolution banner to to 5 other Ron Paul banners. That's my opinion.

how ironic. it is commonly held that at the time of the revolution... well you know the story.

[LibertyEagle]

The Revolution banners do not say he is running for President, nor is the term "Revolution" something that middle-aged mainstream America finds appealing. That term was used a lot by, how should I say it, more leftist-leaning, err... Communist groups, back in the day. That is what a lot of people remember.

I agree that Revolution signs have their place, but up until now, they have been the preponderance of the signs we have been using. It sounds like Anita is suggesting we change that. I agree. We now need to broaden our tent.

[Mr. White]

I agree as well.

Lose the revolution banners, keep the revolution.

It's time to promote the man to the masses, not ourselves.

[Misesian]

The Revolution banners do not say he is running for President, nor is the term "Revolution" something that middle-aged mainstream America finds appealing. That term was used a lot by, how should I say it, more leftist-leaning, err... Communist groups, back in the day. That is what a lot of people remember.

I agree that Revolution signs have their place, but up until now, they have been the preponderance of the signs we have been using. It sounds like Anita is suggesting we change that. I agree. We now need to broaden our tent.

Yep, don't trash them of course, just phase them out.

It's unfortunate that term is tied to socialists like Che Guevara as our country here was established from a revolution as well.

The ones that have the website URL let people know that it has to do with the an '08 election and it does catch the eye and get his name out there. Obviously there's a better one we can do that incorporates his messages of "Hope For America" or "Peace, Freedom, and Properity" says his name 4 president and than gives information on where to find out more.

The only thing we have to do is just build another stencil. Again this mostly applies to the established groups where the rEVOLution logo has already run its course.

[constituent]

well if the goal is to do the whole warhol tomato soup thing...

wouldn't it make sense to do a whole series of signs targeted
at differnet demographic groups... signs that the suits in the
official campaign can approve, even if they don't necessarily appeal
to their senses persay but get the messages out...

that way in one urban area... the young people that want to soup
can market their college campus can do so w/ the signs they find
appealing... and all of the Neighborhood association types can
plaster their... well, they can put up some nice official looking signs
up in the business district, in their office... whatever...

[Henry]

Why don't we just lay out the whole program for the world to see?:mad:

[Mr. White]

Go ahead, but man up to the consequences imposed by our system of law.

[Misesian]

Why don't we just lay out the whole program for the world to see?:mad:

Because there's at least 4 other very dangerous people seeking the GOP nomination.

Plus I also signed a contract that I would NOT do that such thing you suggested.

[LibertyEagle]

Why don't we just lay out the whole program for the world to see?:mad:

I dunno.... because it's stupid??

[Henry]

Because there's at least 4 other very dangerous people seeking the GOP nomination.

Plus I also signed a contract that I would NOT do that such thing you suggested.


My statement was one of outrage for even discuusing the issue!!!!!!!!!

[Wyurm]

I've seen some posts on here about her and I was also at the FL session and I try my best to give everybody a fair shake and I really think some of you guys are NOT giving her a fair shake.

The message/tactics she gave us WOULD deliver us a win undoubtedly if we followed this plan. Now I personally would say that I agree with about 90-95% of what she said.

I was the one who brought up the issue of the rEVOLution logo to her too considering how it's become the de facto trademark brand of this grassroots revolution. She pretty much flat out stated that NO we cannot use that anymore if we expect to win. This is something I both disagree and agree with. We cannot just up and out DITCH this logo as many of us have materials that still have this on there. However she has a valid point in that this does not appeal towards the 90% as Ron Paul's message/sign does of "Hope For America" or even "Peace, Prosperity, Freedom". This message wouldn't put off anybody like the rEVOLution probably does. Though I don't think the official message would attract the real revolutionaries as the rEVOLution will as well. What I plan on doing is phasing out the usage of the rEVOLution logo as it comes around to the point of 6-8 weeks before our primary.

Now I cannot question her support and determination of getting Ron Paul elected as I've heard from some people here. Do I think she is libertarian minded and "gets it" as far as government goes? I'm not so sure, but she is definitely supporting Ron Paul. You have to also consider that as a campaign advistor/strategist you will end up representing different ideologies every single campaign so I'd imagine it's difficult for these types to get too emotionally attached to a particular campaign. Though it is evident she is anti (female) socialist and also a question was asked of her by an attendee on what is actually shady about RP's positions/past and she didn't know of any but firmly stated how there is absolutely "nothing shady about Ron".

She wants us to win, she wants to win, she's offering her advice. The best advice I would say it to also take 90-95% of it but don't forget that you're an individual and NOT a robot so even if she has a 91% success rate she does not have that 100% and incorporate your own style into what she has taught us.

She IS listed as a member of the campaign' staff on their website and I don't think it matters how long she's been up there. Saying she would sue is blown out of proportion. This is what she does, this is her own private property and we sign a contractual obligation to NOT violate her property. We all know about property rights so if you are guilty of violating hers than she has every right to seek damages.

Again, if you haven't had her training session yet do NOT form a judgement about her and her strategies (even from my post) until you attend it. I'd recommend EVERYBODY do what they can to attend this as well. When you do attend please also keep an open mind, and also do not ask a million questions and do not answer questions for her as well. This happened a lot in the FL session and caused a couple of people to unprofessionally blow their gaskets.

I just hope this controversy around Anita Andrews could be dropped already and you guys can listen to what advice she has to give us (as hired by the campaign to do so) to help ensure WE WIN.

I want nothing to do with Anita. It's none of your business why and I will never allow you to tell me what I should or shouldn't do. That's it.

[Mr. White]

Okay.

[Misesian]

My statement was one of outrage for even discuusing the issue!!!!!!!!!

Why? As you can see in this forum there's a LOT of negative comments being attributed to Anita and to her training material.

[Henry]

Why? As you can see in this forum there's a LOT of negative comments being attributed to Anita and to her training material.

The less we say the better!!

[micahnelson]

Where can we attend a meeting with her? Is there a schedule?

[mdh]

The less we say the better!!

Almost a universally untrue statement. :)

[mdh]

I have one big question though...

If this woman is so successful and good at this stuff, how come she has no background information on the web? None. Seriously, if you do some even minor cursory checking of me, you will find quite substantial evidence of my involvement in political causes all over the place, but Anita Andrews? Not a thing.

This is, of all the stuff that's been pointed out, the thing that strikes me as the weirdest. How can you be a successful political consultant/activist sort but be completely unknown? If she were a consultant, you'd expect to see her advertise her consulting services.

[LibertyEagle]

Well, supposedly she dropped out of politics for quite awhile and just came back because of Dr. Paul.

[Henry]

[QUOTE=mdh;178392] Almost a universally untrue statement.
QUOTE]


You will then understand my comment. That's all i'm willing to say!!

[mdh]

Well, supposedly she dropped out of politics for quite awhile and just came back because of Dr. Paul.

Can anyone substantiate this stuff:



-She claimed she worked on a campaign that was outspent 32 million to 300 thousand and still won. Only senate campaigns reach the 30 million mark. There has not been that big of a senate upset in decades.
-She claims she worked on a campaign in which the headquarters were blown up.


These are big/weird claims. :confused:

Dropping out of politics and just coming back still doesn't explain a lack of presence on the net - that kind of upset would be newsworthy, and her name would've been attached if she had any real part in the strategizing/etc. Furthermore, people tend not to just run around being political consultants and never make news. Most people who are in politics are also in it in more ways than one - some folks even go so far as to have sit on the executive board of a state party affiliate, run a PAC, and be heavily involved in a presidential campaign. :p Not that everyone goes that far - but you'd expect, y'know, something, right? :confused:

[stalcottsmith]

I was at the Florida training along with 10 of the most committed meetup members in our county.

A lot of people just "get it" and see that what we received was very much needed. It was exactly what I thought it would be. I was suprised that others who attended and thought it was great found it to be something other than what they were expecting. What *were* they expecting?

There is a genius in her plan in how well it allows us to customize our campaign to our local needs and use ALL the resources at our disposal to maximum effect. For those of you who will be operating under this framework but do not understand it yet, have some faith and patience.

To those of you who have had the training, please do no lord your training over others or act like some kind of insider. That behavior is poison.

The way you talk about the plan with your groups is key. Drop the secrecy talk -- most people find it suspicious. Just don't talk about things you are not supposed to but do address concerns people have. They need know how things are going to develop in general and that there is a place and a role for everyone and that there is considerable flexibility for incorporating the talents and activites that we have been using until now.

It makes sense that what worked in the early stages will not work in the home stretch of the campaign. This applies to revolution banners as well as many other things. We are here to win for Ron Paul and to make great friends and contacts for a lifetime.

Some will be politely allowed to go their own way. We had an incident this weekend where someone who attended an event was calling people communists and stuff. The human/ soft side of this training needs to be spread far and wide and is not overly secretive. We can all be better supporters for Ron by learning how best to communicate and sell him.

[richard1984]

I still just don't understand the privacy/secrecy issue. Is she teaching magic spells or something (which would that would be really cool)?
What about people who aren't/weren't able to attend the meeting(s) with her? Are they just left out of the campaign/mission?
I don't see what she could say that is so progressive and (potentially) effective that it justifies or requires secrecy.
Are her ideas really that original, powerful, and "revolutionary"?
I hope so, but I just don't see how they could be.

It should also be remembered that we don't have much time left! It sure seems to me like it's far more important to get Ron Paul the nomination than it is to keep Anita's ideas/message a secret (if they're as good as people seem to think they are). It seems like if she really cared, she'd make the information available to everyone who wants to help--or at least put a video online and make people sign a pledge before they can view it. I just don't understand the secrecy. You know what I'm sayin'?

Am I way off base here?

[inibo]

My statement was one of outrage for even discuusing the issue!!!!!!!!!

I picked up on it if no one else did. One of the first thing I was taught in the military was to always assume every phone is tapped unless you know it has been secured.

At the very least we should assume every message posted on these forums is being read by the campaign managers of all the other candidates, Republican and Democratic and by the FEC. To think otherwise is foolish.

[mdh]

I picked up on it if no one else did. One of the first thing I was taught in the military was to always assume every phone is tapped unless you know it has been secured.

At the very least we should assume every message posted on these forums is being read by the campaign managers of all the other candidates, Republican and Democratic and by the FEC. To think otherwise is foolish.

Absolutely.

And we should be so righteous as to revel in this transparency and enjoy the fact that we win with pure substance and without going to great lengths to participate in weird subterfuge or any other behavior that we would not want such folks to know about.

[Stealth4]

Can the admins delete this and the other AA thread?

I approve of that deletion

[mdh]

Can the admins delete this and the other AA thread?

I approve of that deletion

No.

And quite frankly, your approval doesn't mean squat. As I said, we are transparent in public, and it's one of our strengths.

[Mister Grieves]

I just don't understand the secrecy. You know what I'm sayin'?

I understand where you're coming from. However, in order for this campaign to be a success, there will have to be elements of the campaign that do not have the wide-eyed optimism in the power of truth over lies, good over evil, and right over wrong.

In other words, it may be prudent to keep some tactics off the radar in order to make them harder to nullify.

[Henry]

Can the admins delete this and the other AA thread?

I approve of that deletion

AMEN BROTHER!!!

[angelatc]

Because there's at least 4 other very dangerous people seeking the GOP nomination.

Plus I also signed a contract that I would NOT do that such thing you suggested.

I'm pretty sure Henry was being sarcastic and indicating that people are already saying too darned much.

[Spirit of '76]

Why don't we just lay out the whole program for the world to see?:mad:

Well I'm sure glad that Henry and a tiny coterie of others who are privy to the Big Secret(tm) are going to single-handedly win this campaign for Ron Paul.

The rest of us can just sit back and watch, I reckon.

[Revolution9]

It was never intended to be in perpetuity, like it is nowadays. Note that the limited times has been extended... from wikipedia - With the passage of the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, these works are granted copyright protection for a term ending 70 years after the death of the author. If the work was a work for hire (e.g., those created by a corporation) then copyright persists for 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication, whichever is shortest. Not exactly a constitutional "limited time" do ya think? I mean, this is sorta like how the Supreme Court has said money doesn't really have to be gold or silver . . .

At any rate, I didn't get involved in it. To each his own, as I have said; however, that means I get to say my piece, too, ya know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo

Disney mashup on Fair use..heh

Best
Randy

[Don]

The average voter is 57 years old.

[Henry]

Well I'm sure glad that Henry and a tiny coterie of others who are privy to the Big Secret(tm) are going to single-handedly win this campaign for Ron Paul.

The rest of us can just sit back and watch, I reckon.

to join an RP meetup group, and if you are in one, get her to come to your state and see for yourself why discretion is crucial.

[Stealth4]

Well I'm sure glad that Henry and a tiny coterie of others who are privy to the Big Secret(tm) are going to single-handedly win this campaign for Ron Paul.

The rest of us can just sit back and watch, I reckon.

If the campaign and Ron Paul himself hired Anita Andrews dont you think we should have a little faith in her?

If you did attend the event and disagree with her approach, can you just say you disagree and leave it at that - you're welcome to disagree and support RP in your own way, but please dont hurt what the campaign is doing by spreading information or misinformation.

I havent even met her or attended "the" event, but lets recognize that this isnt High School and were not trying to keep secrets from each other just to be popular. The information will get to us in good time, but lets not distort or perhaps even ruin what the campaign is trying to do.

Politics is about compromise sometimes. If you cant recognize or understand that, then we cant win. A compromise like this does not hurt our ideals. I sincerely hope this and the other AA thread gets deleted.

This is thread is more painful to me than watching fox spin and try to marginalize Dr. Paul because we are hurting ourselves.

[mdh]

I'll be content to let these threads die when the important questions I have posed have been tackled. The simple fact is that they have not.

[Spirit of '76]

to join an RP meetup group, and if you are in one, get her to come to your state and see for yourself why discretion is crucial.

Yeah, I would have invited her weeks ago, except everyone who knows how to get ahold of her is afraid to say how!

Anyway, she called last night out the blue and gave us four days to find a location and get everyone there on a weekday in a very decentralized, rural state.

If we can arrange a location, I am very interested in hearing what she has to say.

In the meantime, I'm going to consider anyone who keeps going on and on about what a hush-hush big secret it is and how we shouldn't even give the slightest clue to the majority of the grassroots supporters as to the direction the campaign wants us to take to be an utter annoyance.

Thanks for playing, though.

[constituent]

The average voter is 57 years old.

and that's the problem. if you want ron paul to win, he has to mobilize the demographics
that seek to benefit from the change he is proposing.

mr./mrs. 57 yrs old does not even want to give his kids the chance to "opt-out" of
social security, he wants all of his meds and procedures payed-for for life,
and he doesn't know what the federal reserve is, but he is afraid that
restraining it might put a damper on his early retirement.

of course there are countless exceptions to this rule.

however,

when ron paul wins (the nomination and election) it will be on the day that the average 25 year
old voter came out en masse... and they're gunna... don't worry about that...

unless the muckity mucks muck this up.

All the central campaign really needs to do is chill, prioritize speaking appearances,
and work w/ some of those many muckity muck think tanks and non-profit organizations that
support Ron Paul to get some $1000 plate dinners kickin'

invites coinciding w/ important legislation as it is introduced or co-sponsored by the good dr.


Barebones on the ground. A couple signs here and there just to show everyone else where to gather.
I think it is important to remember the score here...

ever see that movie field of dreams...

"if you build it, they will come"


well the people are here already, the campaign exists [.] and as it stands, the official
building of the national presidential campaign has just begun...in other words, the people are so
ready for change that they've beaten you (imaginary dr. paul) to the punch... just ride the wave, don't try to tame it.

As far as campaign staff is concerned... they just need to hire abunch of warm bodies in every
state to do the "official" bidding. hit manpower or some other day labor organization, throw
down $7/hr and pay somebody to go around and put up the "official" flyers on friendly property owner's fence lines.

how do we know the friendly property owners? by checking your list of donors... pay a couple of
people to call those donors and see if they or their family would let someone stop by and post the sign... these things are simple...

but altogether i think the lesson here is to try and not cross wires. keep the official and unofficial campaigns offically and completely seperate.

just my .... oh... buck and half.

[rightcoast]

I have to echo Misesian's sentiments. It was highly productive, and the truth is ... it is far from conventional campaign, what she is recommending.

For it to succeed, everyone would have to work pretty hard together. "Grassroots" as we have been doing would be a hugely integral part of what she says.

[Misesian]

C'mon guys, geez, some of you guys are completely missing the point here.

Sure so if you google her name not much comes up but so what?! If she NEVER had any experience with campaigns in the past before and this was all new "theoretical" information from her than it would still be just as valid and beneficial to the campaign because the vast majority of it MADE SENSE. You are still judging her based off of some other negative threads about her without having even taken the class yet.

Now you got others saying some of us, or just me, have divulged her full training plan when all I said was pretty common knowledge about what type of signage we have to move over TO when we we away FROM the rEVOLution sign.

You got others who are putting on the brown shirts and calling for deletion of these topics for what reason?

Some of you guys are seriously losing FOCUS. This is why I have less than < 100 posts here because I also have to waste time writing threads like this rather than being more productive with my time and efforts in the end goal of getting Ron Paul to win the primary in our state.

Signing off in this thread.......

[cac1963]

Are all the people who follow her suggestions going to do it in secret, underground, away from cameras and newsprint? Because if ANYTHING they do reaches the surface, people like us are going to notice, and decide whether we want to copy those activities or not. That's what this entire grassroots effort has been built on so far, copying the activities others have been doing, by first discovering them in person as a casual participant, or on the web via footage of the activity.

So, are these people going underground to conduct their operations, and will they be invisible to the rest of us? Because if they're not, you can rest assured anybody catching wind of a particular activity that sounds productive will pick it up themselves and incorporate it into their own strategies, in what basically amounts to theft of her intellectual property.

[jonahtrainer]

I have to echo Misesian's sentiments. It was highly productive, and the truth is ... it is far from conventional campaign, what she is recommending.

For it to succeed, everyone would have to work pretty hard together. "Grassroots" as we have been doing would be a hugely integral part of what she says.

I agree also. I attended Anita's course and think she has a lot of good advice. I have a negative gut feel towards some other stuff but she has the experience and is probably right. The campaigning world is in flux and they need to adapt or go the way of the dodo just like Realtors, MSM, newspapers and travel agents.

The landscape of politics is changing because of the Internet. We need to keep in mind that only one thing matters in campaigning: The Vote.

How many slim-jims we pass out, billboards we erect, signs we waive, etc. is irrelevant. For example, what garners more votes: (1) watching the 9 minute YouTube with my postman or (2) passing out 50 business cards in door handles at the mall? With which one can I measure the votes returned on the investment? I watched the YouTube with my postman and he said 'He has my vote and I'll tell my wife about him tonight!'

We need to work smarter and harder. Often times there are activities we do that, while well intentioned, may result in negative votes. This is very detrimental to the campaign.

For example, we did a Paint the Town Ron and the local Fox interviewed some average people. One person was asked about the Revolution sign and she said 'I think it is a cult?' Negative vote? Good idea?

Our activities need to be measurable, scalable, repetitive and effective.

With most people if you can get a person to watch Dr. Paul for over 5 minutes you will have them hooked as a voter. The message is that powerful and Dr. Paul is that good. So the question becomes: How can you get lots of people to watch 5 minutes of Dr. Paul?

I think the car wash idea is pretty effective. Selling T-Shirts at a sign waiving also seems effective (include an issues statement, voter registration and CD/DVD that they can listen to in the car). If you put out signs there needs to be a 'call to action' For example, Google Ron Paul instructs people to do something.

We put signs up in rush-hour areas. We need a call to action for the drivers. A sign that says 'Ron Paul for President; Tired of Iraq?; 800-BYE-IRAQ' would be extremely effective because it has his name, identifies what is at issue (presidency and Iraq) and has a call to action (call the phone number and listen to Ron Paul for 5 minutes in rush hour and they will be hooked as a voter).

Anyway, we have the brightest grassroots effort out there. Now we need to focus the beam into a laser instead of an ineffective flashlight.

[Korey Kaczynski]

The internet is changing politics, but it's still going to be a long time before it's the primary means of distributing information to core voters. Typically, internet users are younger and more politically aware than the primary GOP voting bloc.

[jonahtrainer]

The internet is changing politics, but it's still going to be a long time before it's the primary means of distributing information to core voters. Typically, internet users are younger and more politically aware than the primary GOP voting bloc.

Yes, but here is an example.

I joined Meetup and live in SD. I was visiting some people in FL. While there I looked at the Meetup group and saw a Republican lunch meeting for some county. I was the only Meetup member who attended. I was very courteous and not pushy in any way.

The people present were not 'internet' savvy. I doubt many had the Internet. Tax Collector, County Commissioner, sheriff, etc. were all present. Almost all were Goldwater/Reagan type Republicans and were upset with the current happenings. Someone asked about Presidential candidates and what was going on. Someone talked about Rudy and another about Mitt.

I talked about Ron Paul. He did not register to any of them probably because of the media blackout. They all left with slim-jims. That night was the Sep. 5th debate.

It is all about online-offline and offline-online. We have to get face-face with a lot of people. Hopefully I got some votes!

[Dustancostine]

At this point I would never attend one of her meeting or suggest anyone to do so. I wouldn't discourage anyone to go though.

My biggest beef is with the nondiscloseur aggreements. It seems extremely unprofessional to me. If she is so good at what she does she would not need these agreements. Also how in the hell are we supposed to run a grassroots campaign if we can't even talk to each other about what to do. I am a meetup leader, does that mean if I go I can't implenment anything she talked about because of this stupid agreement? What if I already plan on doing something that she talks about, am I then prevented from telling other people it is a good idea?

Never ever ever sign a nondiscloseur agreement, it is hardly ever a good idea and opens you up to all kinds of liabilities.

[po14015]

I was at the FL meeting. This is what I have to say: If your group is small and unorganized, go to her training. If you are already well organized, then it should be a maybe. Some people are ahead of the curve and some behind. As for the disclosure, I didn't sign it. Sounds stupid to me. And how she could claim to copyright these ideas would be near impossible.

The most important part of the meeting was getting to know your fellow organizers. We had over 105 people in one room. I wish every organizer would have stood up and introduced themselves. I knew who they were, but many others didn't.

In the last week, I have been to 3 events here in Florida with over 100 people at each one. The only way this can happen is if we work together. Email and call your neighbor Meetup Group. If you have a big event, ask them to come. When they have a big event, go to their event.

I will REPEAT THIS OVER AND OVER: GET STUFF!!!!!
Wear a shirt. Put a sign in your yard. Wear a button. Put a bumper sticker on your car.
Talk to people!!! Don't talk about issues.
Tell them about HOW MANY OF US THERE ARE!!!!
Most people just want to be part of a group.
Just get them to the point where they want to find out for themselves.
No one explains Ron Paul better then Ron Paul.

[McDermit]

I was at the FL meeting. This is what I have to say: If your group is small and unorganized, go to her training. If you are already well organized, then it should be a maybe. Some people are ahead of the curve and some behind. As for the disclosure, I didn't sign it. Sounds stupid to me. And how she could claim to copyright these ideas would be near impossible.

The most important part of the meeting was getting to know your fellow organizers. We had over 105 people in one room. I wish every organizer would have stood up and introduced themselves. I knew who they were, but many others didn't.

In the last week, I have been to 3 events here in Florida with over 100 people at each one. The only way this can happen is if we work together. Email and call your neighbor Meetup Group. If you have a big event, ask them to come. When they have a big event, go to their event.

I will REPEAT THIS OVER AND OVER: GET STUFF!!!!!
Wear a shirt. Put a sign in your yard. Wear a button. Put a bumper sticker on your car.
Talk to people!!! Don't talk about issues.
Tell them about HOW MANY OF US THERE ARE!!!!
Most people just want to be part of a group.
Just get them to the point where they want to find out for themselves.
No one explains Ron Paul better then Ron Paul.
So you were able to attend the meeting and hear her ideas without signing the NDA?

[Matt Collins]

If she is so good at what she does she would not need these agreements. If she is good at what she does, then people WILL want to get their hands on her material, including the opposition! That's the reason she is trying to keep material from getting out in the open - to protect her income, and to protect the strategy of the RP campaign.

[Matt Collins]

And how she could claim to copyright these ideas would be near impossible.Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only the expression of those ideas (creative works of art). However whether or not something is copyrighted has no bearing on being able to discuss it with others.

The NDA was primarily for "trade secrets" which is more akin to patents instead of copyrights. Agreeing NOT to discuss something in public has nothing to do with copyright.

[libertarian4321]

If she NEVER had any experience with campaigns in the past before and this was all new "theoretical" information from her than it would still be just as valid and beneficial to the campaign because the vast majority of it MADE SENSE.

I know nothing of this Andrews person other than whats in this thread.

However, if she says she has all this experience (winning a senate campaign with $300k when the opponent had 30 MILLION? My BS meter is going off BIG TIME- I'd bet thats NEVER been done by anyone), but a search comes up with essentially NOTHING?

Sorry, that sounds like BS to me. I suggest someone ask her what campaign it was- if she tells you "its secret" or some similar nonsense, you know she's full of it.

Remember, every con artist will MAKE SENSE, otherwise, the con won't work!

Someone who has been successful in politics ain't going to be secretive about it, folks. Whenever someone starts telling you "its secret", whether they be in politics, finance, or business, your BS flags better start going up! The reason its "secret" is probably because it isn't true...

Maybe she's "legit", but if so, why play games?

There are dozens of top political organizers- many of them are household names- Carville, Matalin, Rove, Rollins, Dick Morris, etc- and many of them have worked for more than one party/ideology- when you ask them "what campaigns have you worked on", I guarantee they won't say "its secret", lol.

[abstrusezincate]

I would say, if her material is that good, this wouldn't be the hardest campaign to infiltrate.

[Matt Collins]

IHowever, if she says she has all this experience (winning a senate campaign with $300k when the opponent had 30 MILLION? My BS meter is going off BIG TIME- I'd bet thats NEVER been done by anyone), but a search comes up with essentially NOTHING?She says she had 3 kids, and she isn't wearing a wedding ring. It is possible she is going by her maiden name or pseudonym which would explain why there are no search results.

[mdh]

There are dozens of top political organizers- many of them are household names- Carville, Matalin, Rove, Rollins, Dick Morris, Harris, etc- and many of them have worked for more than one party/ideology- when you ask them "what campaigns have you worked on", I guarantee they won't say "its secret", lol.

Fixed. :D

[constituent]

I would say, if her material is that good, this wouldn't be the hardest campaign to infiltrate.

let's just not feed this whole "infiltrate" garbage....