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View Full Version : A baliout for the auto companies is acceptable to me......




The One
12-04-2008, 04:08 PM
.......because the CEOs drove cars to D.C. rather than taking their private jets.:rolleyes:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081204/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos_executives_1

WASHINGTON – Embattled auto company chief executives scored some points with Congress by driving — instead of flying — to the hearings on a possible federal assistance package.

Sen. Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican, remained dubious, though.

"I wonder if they're going to drive back?" he asked, to the sound of chuckles in the Banking Committee hearing room Thursday.

The heads of Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC had taken a hit last month when they traveled to the capital on their private jets to plead for a federal bailout.

The auto executives this time made the 520-mile trip to Washington in hybrid cars. Underscoring the different approach, GM chief executive officer Rick Wagoner and other executives with his company ate lunch Wednesday at Quiznos at a Pennsylvania rest stop along the way.

constitutional
12-04-2008, 04:10 PM
I support the bail out too. They should always arrive in cars and not in their private jets to get the billion dollars. They convinced me, kudos!

Danke
12-04-2008, 04:14 PM
.......because the CEOs drove cars to D.C. rather than taking their private jets.:rolleyes:


The Quiznos part swayed me. I love Quiznos!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/runaround.gif

Deborah K
12-04-2008, 04:16 PM
People need to understand that this is a repeat of the Great Depression tactics: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/69421

http://shortsaleblogger.com/auto-bail-out-rearranging-deck-chairs-on-the-titanic/

JK/SEA
12-04-2008, 04:20 PM
Jack Cafferty said they should have walked..lol!

this whole thing is pathetic.

It looked like Dodd was the only Senator left in the room to say goodbye...

coyote_sprit
12-04-2008, 04:20 PM
The Quiznos part swayed me. I love Quiznos!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/runaround.gif

Agreed.

lodge939
12-04-2008, 04:28 PM
Shelby was joking. He roasted the auto execs and said they would be back for more money and frankly, he didnt think the bailout would make a difference

The One
12-04-2008, 04:31 PM
Shelby was joking. He roasted the auto execs and said they would be back for more money and frankly, he didnt think the bailout would make a difference


Not sure I see your point........

UtahApocalypse
12-04-2008, 04:54 PM
Bailout won't matter. The reason the (U.S.) auto companies are failing has ZERO to do with economy. I can buy a Toyota, Nissan, even a Kia and they all will outlast, over perform, and beat the millage of anything our big 3 will put out. Some of the foreign auto makers now have plants here in America. If (and when) the big 3 fail I don't fear a loss of jobs for our great American factory workers. I expect that some of these much better auto manufacturers will scoop up the factories in a fire sale and then get to building better cars in America. Sure they wont be American... but hey they will be better and made here.

newyearsrevolution08
12-04-2008, 05:41 PM
As long as they still put the new camaro out I say LET chevy have all the money!

lol

EPIC1934
12-04-2008, 05:45 PM
The real reason the pols are attacking the auto companies has nothing to do with laissez faire ideology. No country has ever really run according to this stuff.

The real reason is the auto bailout will not directy money upwards as much as the bank bailouts.

Xenophage
12-04-2008, 05:56 PM
Bailout won't matter. The reason the (U.S.) auto companies are failing has ZERO to do with economy. I can buy a Toyota, Nissan, even a Kia and they all will outlast, over perform, and beat the millage of anything our big 3 will put out. Some of the foreign auto makers now have plants here in America. If (and when) the big 3 fail I don't fear a loss of jobs for our great American factory workers. I expect that some of these much better auto manufacturers will scoop up the factories in a fire sale and then get to building better cars in America. Sure they wont be American... but hey they will be better and made here.

Our auto industry was destroyed by by big government regulation and intervention into the market. It *IS* the economy, stupid! (To reuse an old line... I'm not really calling you stupid)

The reason you can't buy a decent American car is because you can't build a decent American factory, and you can't buy decent American steel, and you can't hire decent American workers! The taxes and red tape kill the whole idea. A real American car would be so costly to produce that nobody would buy it, but back in the 60's we had tons of 'em and those cars will still run circles around any piece of crap Honda.

DFF
12-04-2008, 06:17 PM
I'm fine with a bailout so long as Detroit demonstrates a sincere commitment to building cleaner, reliable, more fuel efficient vehicles (ideally sans fuel and electric). To let the American auto-industry collapse would be a monumental mistake, IMO, and would (probably) catapult us straight into a depression. And the thing about the execs arriving in private airplanes is soooo overblown and hypocritical, considering the international foreign bankers whom Bernanke and Paulson bailed out own a freakin' fleet.

paulitics
12-04-2008, 06:36 PM
Detroit is on a much lower rung on the totem pole obviously. Out of the 8 trillion dollars that Americans did not want congress to spend, 25 billion to possibly save an industry seems reasonable. Why should every dollar go to greedy bankers who are creating this nightmare for us. It is so apparant who these politicians are working for you have to be blind not to see it.
Philisophically I'm against bailouts in general, but to see how trillion dollar banks get to have their bad debt erased, while auto companies get the shaft is absurd. It completely contradicts the government's reason they gave us for the bailout. No surprise, they are liars.

AutoDas
12-04-2008, 06:49 PM
I'm fine with a bailout so long as Detroit demonstrates a sincere commitment to building cleaner, reliable, more fuel efficient vehicles (ideally sans fuel and electric). To let the American auto-industry collapse would be a monumental mistake, IMO, and would (probably) catapult us straight into a depression. And the thing about the execs arriving in private airplanes is soooo overblown and hypocritical, considering the international foreign bankers whom Bernanke and Paulson bailed out own a freakin' fleet.


Detroit is on a much lower rung on the totem pole obviously. Out of the 8 trillion dollars that Americans did not want congress to spend, 25 billion to possibly save an industry seems reasonable. Why should every dollar go to greedy bankers who are creating this nightmare for us. It is so apparant who these politicians are working for you have to be blind not to see it.
Philisophically I'm against bailouts in general, but to see how trillion dollar banks get to have their bad debt erased, while auto companies get the shaft is absurd. It completely contradicts the government's reason they gave us for the bailout. No surprise, they are liars.

How many billions of dollars do these conglomerates need to make in transactions before they are considered a "bank"?

SeanEdwards
12-04-2008, 06:50 PM
Watching TV the other night there was a commerical for some American made truck. In the commercial they show this truck driving through some fantastical obstacle course with explosions and flames going off, and big chopper blades just missing the vehicle.

It was utterly freakin ridiculous. Rather than make reliable vehicles with good gas mileage, they think people will buy some stupid fantasy of driving unscathed through a combat zone on the way to the mini mall.

forsmant
12-04-2008, 06:52 PM
The Quiznos part swayed me. I love Quiznos!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/runaround.gif

But did they order the Prime Rib Sandwich!

ihsv
12-04-2008, 06:58 PM
But did they order the Prime Rib Sandwich!

No. Money is so tight they had to settle for the SUB-prime Rib Sandwich :D

Sorry, I couldn't help it. :)

satchelmcqueen
12-04-2008, 11:18 PM
Bailout won't matter. The reason the (U.S.) auto companies are failing has ZERO to do with economy. I can buy a Toyota, Nissan, even a Kia and they all will outlast, over perform, and beat the millage of anything our big 3 will put out. Some of the foreign auto makers now have plants here in America. If (and when) the big 3 fail I don't fear a loss of jobs for our great American factory workers. I expect that some of these much better auto manufacturers will scoop up the factories in a fire sale and then get to building better cars in America. Sure they wont be American... but hey they will be better and made here.

and thats the way it should work...if our government would get out of the way that is.

if you suck, you should fail.

seapilot
12-05-2008, 12:12 AM
Bailout of the Big three should recieve the Lenin Award!

http://www.xsz.ks.ua/en/Award-Lenin.jpg

lodge939
12-05-2008, 01:44 AM
Not sure I see your point........i thought you were saying Shelby was for the bailout because they drove

tggroo7
12-05-2008, 08:19 AM
The fact that GM is considering disbanding Saturn is the last straw for me. If anything, they should just cut everything except Chevy and Saturn and focus on those two. Saturns are great cars, I have a 2000 SC2 that gets 33 mpg (automatic transmission too!) plus Saturn's new lineup looks awesome.

pacelli
12-05-2008, 08:47 AM
Great, they drove huh? Welcome to the life of the serfs. When they get their cash, I hope they choke on it.

Deborah K
12-05-2008, 08:51 AM
I saw that buying all three of them would come to half of what they are asking for. Does any of this make sense? I sometimes feel like I'm living in an alternate universe.

SLSteven
12-05-2008, 09:14 AM
If the CEOs would just agree to lower their salaries to 50 cents instead of 1 whole dollar, I think we should throw in another 10 billion.

mczerone
12-05-2008, 09:50 AM
The Quiznos part swayed me. I love Quiznos!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/runaround.gif

I am boycotting until they bring back those little creatures. Those guys really knew their stuff about subs. And coupons, even for oil changes.

I'd only support the bailout if they had stopped at a Tim Horton's.

acptulsa
12-05-2008, 09:51 AM
Great, they drove huh? Welcome to the life of the serfs. When they get their cash, I hope they choke on it.

Hardly. They're just getting a little closer.

When they park the new Cadillac and take the Greyhound, I'll actually be impressed...

mczerone
12-05-2008, 09:52 AM
How many billions of dollars do these conglomerates need to make in transactions before they are considered a "bank"?

They own lending banks as subsidiaries. GMAC provides most loans for newly purchased GM products, unless the buyer is paying cash (not most Americans) or have a better loan option through a credit union.

Cowlesy
12-05-2008, 09:58 AM
http://www.crowsystems.com/rehab/images/cupoca2.JPG

The big three through my eyes.

Feenix566
12-05-2008, 10:03 AM
Detroit is on a much lower rung on the totem pole obviously. Out of the 8 trillion dollars that Americans did not want congress to spend, 25 billion to possibly save an industry seems reasonable. Why should every dollar go to greedy bankers who are creating this nightmare for us. It is so apparant who these politicians are working for you have to be blind not to see it.
Philisophically I'm against bailouts in general, but to see how trillion dollar banks get to have their bad debt erased, while auto companies get the shaft is absurd. It completely contradicts the government's reason they gave us for the bailout. No surprise, they are liars.

Save an industry?

This phrase cracks me up.

Save an industry?

Nobody's talking about saving an industry. The "industry" doesn't need saving. Ford, GM, and Chrysler are asking us to "save" them from their own bad decisions, but the "industry" is doing just fine. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Kia, and Hyundai are doing just fine. Americans' demand for automobiles is doing just fine.

If Ford, GM, and Chrysler go out of business, Americans aren't going to stop wanting automobiles. Even if every single auto manufacturer on the planet went out of business, people wouldn't stop wanting automobiles.

Any unfulfilled demand is an opportunity for business to grow. "Industries" are what spring up to meet consumers' demands. The backbone of the "industry" is the consumers' willingness to pay for the product being produced. Keeping the same three big auto makers in business has absolutely nothing to do with "saving the industry", and everything to do with maintainig the status quo.

werdd
12-05-2008, 11:03 AM
"The plan is certainly looking more appealing"

Bullshit man, bullshit.

They want a bridge loan, so they can try and do something and then come back for a real bailout a few months down the road.

Fuck them, they need to fail. Someone else domestic needs to buy them out. We cant reward bad business practices and keep the same management and expect a different result because there is now congress oversight. Maybe the unions need to be broke up and maybe we need real automobile competition again.