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smartguy911
12-03-2008, 09:30 PM
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Obama_1961_birth_announcement_from_Honolulu_Advert iser

is that good enough??

CzargwaR
12-03-2008, 09:55 PM
I'm satisfied

Eroberer
12-03-2008, 09:58 PM
No.

JRegs85
12-03-2008, 09:59 PM
No. We are literally talking about the most powerful person in the world.

Show us the birth certificate!

libertarian4321
12-03-2008, 10:23 PM
Probably not enough for the wing nuts- they'll claim that Obama had operatives go back and alter the microfilm at all the libraries in Hawaii- probably on the same trip as when he convinced the Republican governor to cover up his birth certificate.

bojo68
12-03-2008, 10:37 PM
It doesn't matter if he was born on the white house steps, he's not a natural born citizen, and never can be. Of course, I suspect there are those that will harp about this endlessly, just to obfuscate the reality.

John E
12-03-2008, 10:44 PM
I don't doubt the authenticity of the paper clipping but I think in the interest of an open government, it should be provided given the fact that plausible concerns were raised by well intentioned american citizens.

socialize_me
12-03-2008, 11:01 PM
It doesn't matter if he was born on the white house steps, he's not a natural born citizen, and never can be. Of course, I suspect there are those that will harp about this endlessly, just to obfuscate the reality.

LOL...but you're a US Citizen because you popped out in your mother's boyfriend's backseat to his 1969 Dodge Charger on the way to the hospital, right??

rofflecoptor

libertarian4321
12-03-2008, 11:16 PM
It doesn't matter if he was born on the white house steps, he's not a natural born citizen, and never can be.

Dude, you've got to back away from the world net daily (or whatever right wing fringe) stuff.

If he was born in the USA, he's a natural born citizen.

If you didn't want him to be President, you should have worked harder to stop it...

Flirple
12-03-2008, 11:27 PM
Dude, you've got to back away from the world net daily (or whatever right wing fringe) stuff.

If he was born in the USA, he's a natural born citizen.

If you didn't want him to be President, you should have worked harder to stop it...

Yeah. What he said.

bojo68
12-03-2008, 11:41 PM
LOL...but you're a US Citizen because you popped out in your mother's boyfriend's backseat to his 1969 Dodge Charger on the way to the hospital, right??

rofflecoptor

No, I'm a Us citizen because both my parents were US citizens, and I was born in the us. Further, it was a 54 Ford PU.

brandon
12-03-2008, 11:44 PM
Probably not enough for the wing nuts- they'll claim that Obama had operatives go back and alter the microfilm at all the libraries in Hawaii- probably on the same trip as when he convinced the Republican governor to cover up his birth certificate.

Says the "libertarian" who voted for and donated money to Barry O.

RickyJ
12-03-2008, 11:44 PM
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Obama_1961_birth_announcement_from_Honolulu_Advert iser

is that good enough??

No. Good try though. :D

Well actually it is pretty pitiful that anyone would think a listing in a newspaper, equivalent to a classified ad, would be good enough to prove natural born citizenship in the USA. The listing doesn't even say he was born there, just that he was born. It is not surprising the proud grandparents would want to list it in the paper at all. It does not prove where he was born though in any way, shape, or form.

bojo68
12-03-2008, 11:45 PM
Dude, you've got to back away from the world net daily (or whatever right wing fringe) stuff.

If he was born in the USA, he's a natural born citizen.

If you didn't want him to be President, you should have worked harder to stop it...

So, if your right, all those laws and court cases about citizenship are all hogwash, and your right because your you. Get a clue.

AutoDas
12-03-2008, 11:51 PM
he aint no american citizen

USA!
USA!!!

anaconda
12-03-2008, 11:55 PM
LOL!! A birth announcement from a newspaper. HA! Give me a break.

Nooooooo! That IS NOT proof of anything except that someone called it in to the paper in 1961.

All Barky has to do is bring out the vault copy and we're all good to go! Should be a really simple thing. And respectful of the Constitution and the People.

libertarian4321
12-04-2008, 12:10 AM
Says the "libertarian" who voted for and donated money to Barry O.

This Libertarian has donated thousands of dollars to the party, run for office 5 times, and held leadership posts in the local LP.

What have you done, skippy?

BTW, there were no Libertarians running for President in November (and for those of you who haven't figured it out yet, Bob Barr is no Libertarian).

lynnf
12-04-2008, 04:25 AM
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Obama_1961_birth_announcement_from_Honolulu_Advert iser

is that good enough??

sadly, no -- apparently at that time, Hawaii allowed registration at birth no matter where in the world the birth took place, so appearance of an entry in the paper means nothing. note that the paper also doesn't say where the birth took place.

lynn

LibertyEagle
12-04-2008, 04:51 AM
BTW, there were no Libertarians running for President in November (and for those of you who haven't figured it out yet, Bob Barr is no Libertarian).

And you think Obama IS? :rolleyes:

BeFranklin
12-04-2008, 04:56 AM
This Libertarian has donated thousands of dollars to the party, run for office 5 times, and held leadership posts in the local LP.

What have you done, skippy?

BTW, there were no Libertarians running for President in November (and for those of you who haven't figured it out yet, Bob Barr is no Libertarian).

So did a libertarian in Washington state that was also running a grow lamp shop and turning in a list of all customers to the DEA.

The Libertain party is riddled with people who actually are going in the opposite direction. So yeah, what have you done? Donated to Obama. :cool:

BeFranklin
12-04-2008, 04:59 AM
LOL!! A birth announcement from a newspaper. HA! Give me a break.

Nooooooo! That IS NOT proof of anything except that someone called it in to the paper in 1961.

All Barky has to do is bring out the vault copy and we're all good to go! Should be a really simple thing. And respectful of the Constitution and the People.

The more this goes on, the more convinced I am the other way. If it was so easy for immigrates to get to the country this way.

HOLLYWOOD
12-04-2008, 05:30 AM
Don't we have any RPF member who can confirm the mircofih at the libraries?

No one in Keyna newspapers, BC, etc?

How come no one here has persue in Hawaii?

Pepsi
12-04-2008, 05:40 AM
I know this is from a Kenyan newspaper, but I think it's really more about his families roots there. It's a painting of Obama and his Grandmother that lives there in Kenya.

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/12/4/t_File0001jpem_5447b97.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/3/12/4/f_File0001jpem_5447b97.jpg&srv=img33)

Gin
12-04-2008, 06:50 AM
Dude, you've got to back away from the world net daily (or whatever right wing fringe) stuff.

If he was born in the USA, he's a natural born citizen.

If you didn't want him to be President, you should have worked harder to stop it...

He had a DUAL CITIZENSHIP at Birth... It doesn't matter where he was born... His Father was British and is Mother was not old enough to pass her US Natural Born Citizenship on to Obama souly.... On top of that His Mother relinquished both his and her Citizenship when they became a citizen of Indonesia and he went to school there. Obama is a Naturalized Citizen and Can Not be President.

The Constitution States you have to be born to 2 American Parents...and on US Soil. That was stated to protect our Country from being taken over..

Do you think that Europe, Italy, China, Germany would let a naturalized citizen run their Country... I don't think so... so why should we be any different?

Elwar
12-04-2008, 07:39 AM
Naturalized != natural born

the latter being the requirement for presidency

rational thinker
12-04-2008, 07:39 AM
Frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of these false accusations that "Obama wasn't born here" crap. This has been disproven repeatedly, and yet you guys still persist.

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 07:41 AM
It doesn't matter if he was born on the white house steps, he's not a natural born citizen, and never can be. Of course, I suspect there are those that will harp about this endlessly, just to obfuscate the reality. Incorrect! That's the WHOLE point. Born in the USA, you qualify. Even the pregnant Mexican "criminal aliens" KNOW that. :rolleyes:

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 07:41 AM
Frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of these false accusations that "Obama wasn't born here" crap. This has been disproven repeatedly, and yet you guys still persist.

Obama has proved nothing "rational" one.

nodope0695
12-04-2008, 07:41 AM
Nope, not good enough....all that proves is that his mother posted the announcement after returning to Hawaii from Kenya, where Obama was born. Its not proof, and if it convinces you, then you're a SHEEPLE. He could settle all this by simply producing his fucking birth certificate....if he's got nothing to hide, why not show it? How about his college records too? Where's the "change" he promised? Where's the "transparancy" he promised? He's scum, and worse, he's foriegn scum.

nodope0695
12-04-2008, 07:43 AM
Incorrect! That's the WHOLE point. Born in the USA, you qualify. Even the pregnant Mexican "criminal aliens" KNOW that. :rolleyes:

Exactly...and that seems to be something Obama can't, or won't prove by showing his birth cert.

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 07:44 AM
Nope, not good enough....all that proves is that his mother posted the announcement after returning to Hawaii from Kenya, where Obama was born. Its not proof, and if it convinces you, then you're a SHEEPLE. He could settle all this by simply producing his fucking birth certificate....if he's got nothing to hide, why not show it? How about his college records too? Where's the "change" he promised? Where's the "transparancy" he promised? He's scum, and worse, he's foriegn scum.


He's even worse than foreign scum, he is elite butt boy scum. :eek:

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 07:45 AM
Exactly...and that seems to be something Obama can't, or won't prove by showing his birth cert.

If he could he would have done so by now instead of paying law firms half a million to fight it. He was definitely not born in the USA.

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 07:45 AM
Frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of these false accusations that "Obama wasn't born here" crap. This has been disproven repeatedly, and yet you guys still persist. Let's just let the courts decide shall we? Oh, Obama and the DNC are stone walling and fighting that, now I remember. :p :rolleyes: Hmm, I wonder why?

Elwar
12-04-2008, 07:45 AM
I agree that the whole birth cirtificate thing is akin to the Democrats "Bush wasn't elected" nonsense.

But there is a legitimate question in that, even though Obama is a naturalized citizen, it is not clear whether or not a child born of foreign parents is a "natural born citizen". The Constitution is unclear on this issue and if anything it would be nice to at least have the term defined properly.

Elwar
12-04-2008, 07:51 AM
Exactly...and that seems to be something Obama can't, or won't prove by showing his birth cert.

Doesn't the proof tend to fall upon the accusor? Innocent until proven guilty and all of that?

"Jimmy killed Susan last Friday night, if he was innocent he'd show us the movie ticket stub proving that he was at the movies instead of at Susan's house killing her that night. Just telling us that he was at the movies isn't good enough."

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 07:51 AM
I agree that the whole birth cirtificate thing is akin to the Democrats "Bush wasn't elected" nonsense.

But there is a legitimate question in that, even though Obama is a naturalized citizen, it is not clear whether or not a child born of foreign parents is a "natural born citizen". The Constitution is unclear on this issue and if anything it would be nice to at least have the term defined properly.

No, the two are not equivalent at all. No one is saying Obama didn't win the election, we are saying he is not qualified to serve as President of the USA according to the Constitution. Obama could easily produce a birth certificate if he was born in the USA, but instead he pays law firms to fight it. He could be facing felony charges here, no wonder he is fighting it instead of showing his birth certificate. The elite have him just where they want him, one screw up and they send his ass to jail. He will be a good little puppet and do whatever they say.

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 07:53 AM
Doesn't the proof tend to fall upon the accusor? Innocent until proven guilty and all of that?

"Jimmy killed Susan last Friday night, if he was innocent he'd show us the movie ticket stub proving that he was at the movies instead of at Susan's house killing her that night. Just telling us that he was at the movies isn't good enough."

An innocent person doesn't throw half a million dollars away in lawyers' fees to stop people from seeing his birth certificate and college admission records. You are darn right Obama saying he was born in Hawaii is not good enough.

PatriotOne
12-04-2008, 07:56 AM
The elite have him just where they want him, one screw up and they send his ass to jail. He will be a good little puppet and do whatever they say.


How refreshing. Someone who gets it.

Elwar
12-04-2008, 08:04 AM
Seriously, I think you guys are digging your own grave with this whole "where's the birth certificate" thing...

There's a legitimate question as to whether or not he is a "natural born citizen". His father was not a US citizen. This is the key issue, not his birth certificate.

If his father was a US citizen he could've been born on Mars and he'd still be a natural born citizen.
Naturalization Act of 1790: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 08:07 AM
Exactly...and that seems to be something Obama can't, or won't prove by showing his birth cert.

If the courts merely refuse to do their JOBS, it's a moot point, and the Kenyan POTUS wins. Is this a great system or what? :p :rolleyes:


Any "system" crucially dependent on human reliability is inherently unreliable.

Bruno
12-04-2008, 08:30 AM
Anyone with a DeLorean could have recreated this newsclipping. It proves nothing.

smithtg
12-04-2008, 08:34 AM
Anyone with a DeLorean could have recreated this newsclipping. It proves nothing.

love the Back to the future reference... Too funny

I actually saw a Delorean on the highway the other day, took a photo with my camera phone. I love that movie man.

1.21 GIGAWATTS!!

RonPaulFanInGA
12-04-2008, 08:41 AM
Let's face facts: the people still believing in the Obama birth certificate thing are the types who are not going to believe he was born in Hawaii no matter what: "real" birth certificate shown, put into a court, etc.

It will never be good enough for these types. These are the types who will try (and fail) to explain away anything and everything that doesn't fit into their delusions.

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 08:46 AM
Anyone with a DeLorean could have recreated this newsclipping. It proves nothing. If it's genuine, it's merely supporting evidence for the defense, AT TRIAL, IN COURT.< IMHO > :rolleyes:

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 08:49 AM
Let's face facts: the people still believing in the Obama birth certificate thing are the types who are not going to believe he was born in Hawaii no matter what: "real" birth certificate shown, put into a court, etc.

It will never be good enough for these types. These are the types who will try (and fail) to explain away anything and everything that doesn't fit into their delusions. Yep, those eye witness Kenyan grannies can sure be a pretty tough crowd to convince otherwise. :rolleyes:

Bruno
12-04-2008, 08:50 AM
If it's genuine, it's merely supporting evidence for the defense, AT TRIAL, IN COURT.< IMHO > :rolleyes:

Would love to see it go to trial.

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 08:54 AM
Would love to see it go to trial. Me too, the defendants are merely stone walling. :p :rolleyes:

torchbearer
12-04-2008, 08:57 AM
Any "system" crucially dependent on human reliability is inherently unreliable.[/B]

Same goes for computer systems...

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 09:07 AM
Same goes for computer systems... Indeed, for those crucially dependent on human reliability, hence the "ANY". ;)

BeFranklin
12-04-2008, 09:10 AM
Exactly...and that seems to be something Obama can't, or won't prove by showing his birth cert.

14th Amendment citizenship isn't exactly the same as natural born that a president needs to be eligible.

AutoDas
12-04-2008, 09:12 AM
umm can anyone tell me exactly why it matters where he was born? Or is the Constitution so sacrosanct that it's beyond reproach and that it may in fact just be a piece of paper? nah.

BeFranklin
12-04-2008, 09:18 AM
umm can anyone tell me exactly why it matters where he was born? Or is the Constitution so sacrosanct that it's beyond reproach and that it may in fact just be a piece of paper? nah.

It only matters where you are born for 14th Amendment citizenship status.

Presidential eligibility requires something more. It requires you to be natural born.

That is a legal word from that time period which you can look up in blackstone. It means you have to be a citizen at birth by either being born in the country or your father being a citizen. If given birth outside the country of your father, you become a citizen of your father's country anyway. That is natural born.

Obama was a British citizen at birth according to Obama's own websites. He was a british citizen because of the British definition of natural born - *which is the same as ours* because we were their colony at one time. By the same token, he isn't a natural born citizen here. He may be a citizen, but he isn't a natural born citizen as the constiution requires to be elible for president.

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 09:20 AM
umm can anyone tell me exactly why it matters where he was born? Or is the Constitution so sacrosanct that it's beyond reproach and that it may in fact just be a piece of paper? nah.

Because his mother was not old enough to automatically give Obama citizenship no matter where he was born. And his dad could only give him citizenship of Kenya. So he was a citizen of Kenya when born in Kenya. If he were born in the USA though it would not matter if both his parents were not US citizens, he would still be a natural born citizen. That's why it matters where he was born. If it was Kenya then he is not a natural born citizen and cannot, according to the Constitution, serve as president of the USA.

AutoDas
12-04-2008, 09:24 AM
Because his mother was not old enough to automatically give Obama citizenship no matter where she was born. And his dad could only give him citizenship of Kenya. So he was a citizen of Kenya when born in Kenya. If he were born in the USA though it would not matter if both his parents were not US citizens, he would still be a natural born citizen. That's why it matters where he was born. If it was Kenya then he is not a natural born citizen and cannot, according to the Constitution, serve as president of the USA.

uh I don't care about the qualifications for running for President. I asked if anyone could tell me why it matters where he was born. We've had a natural born President for the last 8 years so qualifications shouldn't be treated as a measurement of how much dedication they should have to the Constitution.

BeFranklin
12-04-2008, 09:24 AM
Because his mother was not old enough to automatically give Obama citizenship no matter where he was born. And his dad could only give him citizenship of Kenya. So he was a citizen of Kenya when born in Kenya. If he were born in the USA though it would not matter if both his parents were not US citizens, he would still be a natural born citizen. That's why it matters where he was born. If it was Kenya then he is not a natural born citizen and cannot, according to the Constitution, serve as president of the USA.

His father gave him British citizenship, and then Kenya became independent.

That is an important point because the reason his father gave him citizenship is because the British concept of "natural born", which is the same as the one used in the US Constitution.

Truth Warrior
12-04-2008, 09:27 AM
Regardless, Kenya is NOT the USA.

Keep it simple. ;)

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 09:30 AM
uh I don't care about the qualifications for running for President. I asked if anyone could tell me why it matters where he was born.

If you don't think the Constitution matters then why are you on this forum?

Being a natural born citizen is a reasonable minimum requirement for the highest office of the USA. He doesn't need to be natural born for any other office. This has to do with loyalties. A person tends to be more loyal to their native nation.

Bruno
12-04-2008, 09:37 AM
uh I don't care about the qualifications for running for President. I asked if anyone could tell me why it matters where he was born. We've had a natural born President for the last 8 years so qualifications shouldn't be treated as a measurement of how much dedication they should have to the Constitution.

It matters where he was born to see if he meets the qualifications for president. Otherwise, who cares where the hell he was born.

If it didn't matter where a presidential candidate was born, maybe Arnold would have run for president.

tonyr1988
12-04-2008, 09:38 AM
seriously, i think you guys are digging your own grave with this whole "where's the birth certificate" thing...

There's a legitimate question as to whether or not he is a "natural born citizen". His father was not a us citizen. This is the key issue, not his birth certificate.

If his father was a us citizen he could've been born on mars and he'd still be a natural born citizen.
Naturalization act of 1790: "and the children of citizens of the united states that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the united states, shall be considered as natural born citizens."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/natural_born_citizen

qfa

mconder
12-04-2008, 09:41 AM
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Obama_1961_birth_announcement_from_Honolulu_Advert iser

is that good enough??

Is this good enough for you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqOLREmCJOo

Elwar
12-04-2008, 10:08 AM
Naturalization act of 1790: "and the children of citizens of the united states that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the united states, shall be considered as natural born citizens."

Just as this is true for the United States, it is true for British citizens. Obama's father was a British citizen.

It'd be like any one of our children being born in Britain and then them running for "president". They would be natural born citizens of the United States.

AutoDas
12-04-2008, 01:32 PM
If you don't think the Constitution matters then why are you on this forum?

Being a natural born citizen is a reasonable minimum requirement for the highest office of the USA. He doesn't need to be natural born for any other office. This has to do with loyalties. A person tends to be more loyal to their native nation.

Thank you for completely avoiding the rest of my post.

Maybe it's because I agree with the Constitution that restricts the power of government over personal liberty? mmkay? How is focusing on Obama's birthplace an effective way to campaign for personal liberty and when you have been disproven? Admit defeat, move on.

So it's blind patriotism you want from the President cause he was "born in the USA!"

AbolishTheGovt
12-04-2008, 01:38 PM
For Pete's sake, people, disproving Obama's citizenship is the most worthless waste of time ever. If you boot him out of office, then we just get Joe Biden. Whoop dee freakin' doo. Start doing something more meaningful and productive with your time, you foilheads.

humanic
12-04-2008, 02:12 PM
For Pete's sake, people, disproving Obama's citizenship is the most worthless waste of time ever. If you boot him out of office, then we just get Joe Biden. Whoop dee freakin' doo. Start doing something more meaningful and productive with your time, you foilheads.

First sentence in the article entitled Obama Must Stand Up or Step Down (http://newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin84.htm) by Edwin Vieira (10/29/08):

America is facing potentially the gravest constitutional crisis in her history. Barack Obama must either stand up in a public forum and prove, with conclusive documentary evidence, that he is “a natural born Citizen” of the United States who has not renounced his American citizenship—or he must step down as the Democratic Party’s candidate for President of the United States—preferably before the election is held, and in any event before the Electoral College meets.

Edwin Vieira, Jr., holds four degrees from Harvard: A.B. (Harvard College), A.M. and Ph.D. (Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences), and J.D. (Harvard Law School). He appears alongside Ron Paul in Fiat Empire and America: Freedom To Fascism. He is also on the Board of Advisors of the Foundation for the Advancement of Monetary Education with Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, Larry Parks, and others - some of the greatest scholars the freedom movement has to offer. For more than thirty years he has practiced law, with emphasis on constitutional issues. In the Supreme Court of the United States he successfully argued or briefed the cases leading to the landmark decisions Abood v. Detroit Board of Education, Chicago Teachers Union v. Hudson, and Communications Workers of America v. Beck, which established constitutional and statutory limitations on the uses to which labor unions, in both the private and the public sectors, may apply fees extracted from nonunion workers as a condition of their employment.

What a foilhead.

CzargwaR
12-04-2008, 03:38 PM
if he's got nothing to hide, why not show it? How about his college records too? Where's the "change" he promised? Where's the "transparancy" he promised? He's scum, and worse, he's foriegn scum.

Don't use the "he's got nothing to hide so he should show it" argument here. This is the same argument used for patriot act : "If you're not a terrorist, you have nothing to hide so you won't mind if we peek around" etc etc.

Yes he should show the certificate, but it's because he must prove beyond reasonable doubt his eligibility to be a president.

Still, I agree that he's a scum. Foreign scum? That's me calling you a terrorist because you won't prove me wrong. Unless I can prove you're a terrorist beyond reasonable doubt.

I looked at the "he was born in Kenya" side and it's not beyond reasonable doubt for me. (was the released birth certificate proven to be forged beyond reasonable doubt?) Just my honest opinion.

anaconda
12-04-2008, 04:01 PM
This has been disproven repeatedly

Where?

anaconda
12-04-2008, 04:06 PM
uh I don't care about the qualifications for running for President. I asked if anyone could tell me why it matters where he was born. We've had a natural born President for the last 8 years so qualifications shouldn't be treated as a measurement of how much dedication they should have to the Constitution.

Your point is well taken. HOWEVER, the issue at hand is whether we are going to follow our Constitution. If enough people agree with you, we should have no problem amending the Constitution.

Obama apparently taught constitutional law. So, if he is not natural born, then he knows he is guilty of fraud and god knows what else by representing himself as a candidate for president. If this is the case, he also must think (like another recent president) that the Constitution is "just a goddamn piece of paper."

anaconda
12-04-2008, 05:26 PM
For Pete's sake, people, disproving Obama's citizenship is the most worthless waste of time ever.

It's time we start following the Constitution. I don't think it's a waste of time. People picking and choosing which parts of the Constitution they want to follow has got us into a whole pack of problems.

Number19
12-04-2008, 06:08 PM
I keep finding new "facts", which, while not conclusive, raises more questions. The latest find comes from this website. I don't know the integrity level.

http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=135

It seems that hospitals have been checked in Honolulu County, Hawaii - 13 in all - and there is no record of admittance for Barack's mother or any record of Obama ever being there.

anaconda
12-04-2008, 07:30 PM
It seems that hospitals have been checked in Honolulu County, Hawaii - 13 in all - and there is no record of admittance for Barack's mother or any record of Obama ever being there.
Reply With Quote

Surprise surprise..

heavenlyboy34
12-04-2008, 07:32 PM
find it from a more credible source than "wikileaks", and I'll believe it. :)

Dianne
12-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Well, my concern is why is the man hiding his original birth certificate, and only sending forth forgeries?

Look guys, since it appears the Council of Foreign Relations will always control who is the dictator of the United States of American from now on.... at least they should appear to adhere to the Consitution. That is the one document we have to justify our revolution. Right now the CFR is testing us to see what we will take, and apparently the sheeple will take any liar... regardless of gender ... color , etc.

This is a big issue, as we now have a pathalogical liar running the country.. a CFR patsy. Let him bring forth the evidence requested. What is he hiding?

If you are willing to accept that, sad........... I am not....

Zera
12-04-2008, 08:13 PM
I think it's funny people are quick to believe some random recording that says Obama isn't a citizen or do some half assed original research and jump to the conclusion that he was born in Kenya, yet simply refuse to believe what's actually been proven. The state of Hawaii itself, the birth certificate itself that's been seen, this 1961 newspaper clipping, etc.

Hell, I don't think the supreme court looking at the certificate themselves and claiming it's real will be enough. Why? Because they'll be "far left liberal judges with their own agenda".

nate895
12-04-2008, 08:24 PM
I think it's funny people are quick to believe some random recording that says Obama isn't a citizen or do some half assed original research and jump to the conclusion that he was born in Kenya, yet simply refuse to believe what's actually been proven. The state of Hawaii itself, the birth certificate itself that's been seen, this 1961 newspaper clipping, etc.

Hell, I don't think the supreme court looking at the certificate themselves and claiming it's real will be enough. Why? Because they'll be "far left liberal judges with their own agenda".

The birth certificate itself has never been shown, only announcements and records that the birth occurred. They are good enough to get you into public school, but they are not good enough to prove natural born citizenship.

Nationwide
12-04-2008, 09:12 PM
If your support the Constitution you support the Income Tax.
Nope, the Income Tax only applies to maybe 3% of the population. http://www.losthorizons.com

runningdiz
12-04-2008, 09:27 PM
A birth certificate would be nice but I am sure there will be plenty of people here who wont believe it when they see it.

I would like to point out looking at the PDF the top of the column says "Health Burea Statistics" Everyone keeps saying its an announcement so anyone could of put it in there. That would appear to be a false assumption since this is a statistic. Also look in your own paper at the birth announcements. Those who submit them individualize them. All of these are the same uniformed format.

Number19
12-04-2008, 10:33 PM
Why is there a fear to have all "the facts" presented in a Court of Law, and in fact the Supreme Court of the Land, and for a ruling adjudicated based on the presentation of these facts?

RickyJ
12-04-2008, 10:41 PM
If your support the Constitution you support the Income Tax.

Wrong. The 16th amendment was never properly ratified. So it is not legally part of the Constitution.

hotbrownsauce
12-05-2008, 07:09 AM
It seems the original intent of the founders of the U.S.A. meant for Natural Born Citizenship was that at least one parent must be a citizen of a state. The person born may be born abroad so long as they don't denounce the U.S.A. Also, just because you were born in the U.S.A. didn't mean you were a citizen. (say for instance 2 foreigners come here for one day and have a baby. That baby isn't Natural born). On the other hand in England common law says someone born in the jurisdiction of Brittan was a subject and considered "British National" which then would apply to how our "natural born" works as per how our Supreme Court works. But the laws were so askew about natural born and no clear definition was ever given which leaves the "Natural Born" part of our constitution under much "play" for meaning. (Please keep in mind I haven't been able to dig up any constitutional convention / Federal Convention details about "Natural Born" / presidency. So there may be something I'm missing)

The U.S.A. has seen the Naturalization act which has confused Citizenship meanings even more. Accompanied with the 14th amendment's adds to the confusion. Although the act and amendment aren't really descriptions of Natural Born.

We do have statutory laws http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html this is current as of Jan 3 2007.

The questions come down to this.
1.) What were the laws for a Natural Born Citizen when Obama was born?
2.) Was he Born in Hawaii or Kenya (if it matters depending on the law at the time of his birth)?
3.) Did Obama renounce his U.S.A. citizenship?
4.) If it is ultimately ruled there is no standing ground for a lawsuit or that Barack has a 4th amendment right does that make it possible for electors from the states to vote whom they want and not obama?
5.) If the electors are punished by state laws because they didn't vote in line with their state popular vote. Would that be a violation of the "Cruel and unusual punishment" or go against the constitution on how to elect a president? Since the electors are trying to ensure the constitution is followed.

Easiest ways to settle it A.) Obama shows Birth Certificate and explains what happened in Indonesia and why his Grandmother said he was born in Kenya. B.) Everyone who wants proof of his eligibility forgets about it.

speciallyblend
12-05-2008, 07:31 AM
And you think Obama IS? :rolleyes:

personally most people who voted for obama, where not given an option to vote republican and the lp lost their option to vote lp by nominating barr! the fact is the only people to blame for voting for obama are the gop for not giving us a viable option to vote republican. the motives of most obama voters were to vote against mccain and the corrupt gop. they had no other options, though some will say vote 3rd party ,many did not want or endorse the gop or mccain. the blame lies with the gop leadership for every republican that voted for obama.


the gop loves obama that is why they alienated republicans like me and corrupted their primaries with mccain and gop leadership that are basically liars!!!!



the gop deserves obama. the gop's actions enabled obama to win!!!


i voted baldwin though i think the CP needs to go away and merge into a new brand name. I want a Liberty Party,until then the gop is dead in my eyes!!!
disgusted republican can you tell???

hotbrownsauce
12-05-2008, 03:36 PM
The supreme court didn't mention Donofrio vs. Wells today even after getting the case. We may hear something about it Monday.

torchbearer
12-05-2008, 03:44 PM
naaaaaaaaw I'm reading the Constitution right now, its in there :)

Just because they government put it in there doesn't mean it was ratified.
the guys in DC wanted the amendment, they put it in there regardless.

libertarian4321
12-05-2008, 04:39 PM
And you think Obama IS? :rolleyes:

I never said Obama was libertarian. In fact, I clearly said he was liberal.

Obviously, neither Barr nor McWar was libertarian either.

Given three awful candidates on the ballot, I chose the one I believed was the lesser evil.

How did some of you people manage to even get through high school with such poor reading comprehension skills?

libertarian4321
12-05-2008, 04:45 PM
personally most people who voted for obama, where not given an option to vote republican and the lp lost their option to vote lp by nominating barr! the fact is the only people to blame for voting for obama are the gop for not giving us a viable option to vote republican. the motives of most obama voters were to vote against mccain and the corrupt gop. they had no other options, though some will say vote 3rd party ,many did not want or endorse the gop or mccain. the blame lies with the gop leadership for every republican that voted for obama.


the gop loves obama that is why they alienated republicans like me and corrupted their primaries with mccain and gop leadership that are basically liars!!!!



the gop deserves obama. the gop's actions enabled obama to win!!!


i voted baldwin though i think the CP needs to go away and merge into a new brand name. I want a Liberty Party,until then the gop is dead in my eyes!!!
disgusted republican can you tell???

The 2008 election cycle began with more promise than any I can remember. With Ron Paul running, I thought I might, for the first time in my life, have a candidate on the ballot that I not only believed in, but who had at least a chance to win.

The 2008 election ended up being the worst in memory- we had NO ONE to vote for- it was a matter of not voting, voting for the 'lesser evil", or casting a pointless write in.

If it wasn't for down ballot candidates (I voted for a pile of Libertarians) and ballot initiatives, I wouldn't have even bothered this year.

scandinaviany3
12-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Seriously, I think you guys are digging your own grave with this whole "where's the birth certificate" thing...

There's a legitimate question as to whether or not he is a "natural born citizen". His father was not a US citizen. This is the key issue, not his birth certificate.

If his father was a US citizen he could've been born on Mars and he'd still be a natural born citizen.
Naturalization Act of 1790: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen

Wasnt the 1790 act repealed and not in force when he was born.

scandinaviany3
12-05-2008, 10:07 PM
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Obama_1961_birth_announcement_from_Honolulu_Advert iser

is that good enough??

someone on here claimed a post of the address being his grandparents..anyway to check on this...

BeFranklin
12-06-2008, 07:16 AM
Wasnt the 1790 act repealed and not in force when he was born.

Natural born is a legal term in common law defined at the time the constitution was written and capable of being looked up in such works as Blackstones Commentaries. Later statue laws like the 1790 act or the 1948 British act are only recognizing a pre-existing legal principle.

I saw on the news the idea that "natural born" is intentionally hazy and no one knows what it means. I find it really doubtful that the founders didn't know what the words meant that they wrote, and many of them were lawyers.

So look the damn thing up.

lynnf
12-06-2008, 08:21 AM
Wasnt the 1790 act repealed and not in force when he was born.

1790 act repealed and replaced by the act of 1795 and later acts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1795


lynn

Pepsi
12-08-2008, 12:26 AM
I am going to bump this..