I would like to attempt to clear up any Campaign for Liberty misinformation you have!

[ShannonOBrien]

I see so many posts on this forum where people have misinformation about Campaign for Liberty. I think that part of the blame can go to the campaign itself for not communicating enough with the grassroots. The reason that is such a problem is because 1.) They are a very small staff with a mountain of tasks to complete 2.) You have to sign up to be a precinct leader before you can get all of the information! The reason you have to be a precinct leader before you can get the information is because it contains information that can't be given out willy nilly.

I have requested the C4L to clear up all of the confusion but they are unable to give the grassroots its full and undivided attention right now. (They did say that they will have more contact as soon as they possibly can though.) So instead of waiting, I have decided to answer any questions about C4L to the best of my knowledge. I am just a precinct leader but I was very confused when I first signed up and did a lot of asking up the chain of command to get answers. Hopefully I can be of some help to those just as confused as I was.

[acptulsa]

I could and would do the precinct leader thing but the whole operation was in such a mess at first that I feared I would spend all my time asking questions and no time accomplishing anything. So, now that it seems the dust is settling, what do you get to accomplish as precinct leader in exchange for your time invested? Can you give me a rundown?

Hope I'm not the only one who could learn from your explanation. Thanks.

[JK/SEA]

Precinct leader is not the same as a Precinct Committe Officer?

i'm the latter, newly elected (118 votes) and it does confuse me.

[ShannonOBrien]

I could and would do the precinct leader thing but the whole operation was in such a mess at first that I feared I would spend all my time asking questions and no time accomplishing anything. So, now that it seems the dust is settling, what do you get to accomplish as precinct leader in exchange for your time invested? Can you give me a rundown?

Hope I'm not the only one who could learn from your explanation. Thanks.

As a precinct leader you are given tasks so that you are completely prepared to win your precinct for anything liberty related. You do these tasks in steps. By the time you complete your first step you feel 100% confident in your ability to win over your precinct. Everything is very clear. An example of a task might be to read strategy material or get an accurate list of every household/person in your precinct. I like it because it's completely action oriented and the tasks are things that will directly change the outcome of elections.

I didn't have much hope for CFL. I'd never even been to a meetup but I signed up on a whim. After doing that first step I can't believe I was so hesitant. I know there are a lot more people out there like me so I'm trying to get the information out there!

[ShannonOBrien]

Precinct leader is not the same as a Precinct Committe Officer?

i'm the latter, newly elected (118 votes) and it does confuse me.

That was the whole reason I didn't become a precinct leader in the first place! It is confusing! What I found out was that a precinct leader is separate from a precinct committee officer. A precinct leader is strictly for C4L. You can have as many precinct leaders as you want. The more the merrier. You get access to tools to win over your precinct that non-precinct members do not. (However, we want them to help out too.) A precinct committee officer works for either the democratic or republican party only. Ideally the CFL would like to have a precinct committee officer who is also a precinct leader in every precinct. But for right now C4L is non-partisan.

[Elwar]

Why is it that the Ron Paul Revolution is pushing so hard on this whole CFL thing? Some of us aren't really into Canadian football.

[dude58677]

why is it that the ron paul revolution is pushing so hard on this whole cfl thing? Some of us aren't really into canadian football.

lmao!

[ShannonOBrien]

Why is it that the Ron Paul Revolution is pushing so hard on this whole CFL thing? Some of us aren't really into Canadian football.

I don't think the Ron Paul Revolution is pushing hard for the CFL thing at all. I see a lot of people loudly expressing their frustration with the lack of communication and I see a lot of people quietly working with the CFL. If you don't want anything to with it, that's fine. I'm not going to put a gun to your head. I'm just trying to help the people who would want to help if only they had more information about what they are getting into.

You lost me on the canadian football joke. LOL

[dude58677]

I don't think the Ron Paul Revolution is pushing hard for the CFL thing at all. I see a lot of people loudly expressing their frustration with the lack of communication and I see a lot of people quietly working with the CFL. If you don't want anything to with it, that's fine. I'm not going to put a gun to your head. I'm just trying to help the people who would want to help if only they had more information about what they are getting into.

You lost me on the canadian football joke. LOL

Canadian Football League!

Jim Kelly of the Buffalo Bills played in that league as well as Doug Flutie and Hershel Walker.

http://www.cfl.ca/

[RickyJ]

You guys can campaign all you want to and it will get you nowhere. Now if you decide to join the revolution then I will pay attention.

[acptulsa]

Why is it that the Ron Paul Revolution is pushing so hard on this whole CFL thing? Some of us aren't really into Canadian football.

Eh?

You get ten whole extra yards ya hoser!

[RickyJ]

Ideally the CFL would like to have a precinct committee officer who is also a precinct leader in every precinct. But for right now C4L is non-partisan.

I'm sure glad you cleared that up for us. ;)

Why two organizations?

What's the difference between the CFL and the C4L?


Is the CFL partisan and the C4L non-partisan?

Is the C4L kind of like Switzerland and the CFL kind of like Germany?

[Deborah K]

The best thing C4L can do is set up workshops to teach how people to awaken the sleeping. Too many RP supporters are having trouble backing up their stances with facts. We all need to learn how to be informed debaters. Some of us can figure it out on our own and others really need help. jmho

[RickyJ]

Precinct leader is not the same as a Precinct Committe Officer?

i'm the latter, newly elected (118 votes) and it does confuse me.

Wait a minute? You just got elected to a post you don't even know much about?

Are you related to Obama?

[ShannonOBrien]

You guys can campaign all you want to and it will get you nowhere. Now if you decide to join the revolution then I will pay attention.

Well CFL is campaigning to get liberty minded people into office by getting people who are part of the RP revolution to get involved in the party and/or get them out to the polls 100% when it comes time to vote.

[ShannonOBrien]

I'm sure glad you cleared that up for us. ;)

Why two organizations?

What's the difference between the CFL and the C4L?


Is the CFL partisan and the C4L non-partisan?

Is the C4L kind of like Switzerland and the CFL kind of like Germany?

There is actually one organization. Campaign for liberty aka CFL aka C4L. Some people prefer to use CFL, some prefer to use C4L. I've been using them interchangeably so I am probably contributing to the confusion! I'll just say campaign for liberty. Campaign for liberty is non-partisan but trying to get as many RP supporters politically active as possible.

[ShannonOBrien]

The best thing C4L can do is set up workshops to teach how people to awaken the sleeping. Too many RP supporters are having trouble backing up their stances with facts. We all need to learn how to be informed debaters. Some of us can figure it out on our own and others really need help. jmho


I agree. They have set up an education tab at the Campaign for Liberty website but there is a TON of information so it takes a while. Hopefully we can find those who are sympathetic to liberty and direct them to the education tab of the website to get started. Of course, not without some gentle nudging. :)

[RickyJ]

The best thing C4L can do is set up workshops to teach how people to awaken the sleeping. Too many RP supporters are having trouble backing up their stances with facts. We all need to learn how to be informed debaters. Some of us can figure it out on our own and others really need help. jmho

You can't wake people up that don't want to be woken up. Facts are not the problem, getting people to believe the facts or care about the facts are. Most people just think you are crazy when you talk about the FED, or 9/11 truth, or the elite. Really, even Ron Paul thinks 9/11 truthers are nuts. If we can't even convince the good doctor then what hope do we have to convince the average Joe on the street that our government has been taken over?

[ShannonOBrien]

Wait a minute? You just got elected to a post you don't even know much about?

Are you related to Obama?

Precinct leaders aren't elected. Anybody can be a precinct leader. You just have to sign up, pay $35 for dues and sign a non-disclosure agreement. (The non-disclosure agreement is there because they give you a list of people in your precinct and their phone numbers. They don't want you to abuse that information.) Right now any higher position (such as a county coordinator) is unelected as well. As soon as a state gets a good amount of precinct leaders, a convention will be held and the precinct leaders will elect their leaders, who will elect their leaders and so on up the food chain. Just like a republic. The number of precinct leaders depends on the state. Some states are small and will require a smaller number of precinct leaders to start elections. As far as I know there is no set in stone number.

[pacelli]

Does it bother you at all that the only people on the actual board are either members of his family or members of the prior campaigns?

[ShannonOBrien]

Does it bother you at all that the only people on the actual board are either members of his family or members of the prior campaigns?

Well, when I put myself in his shoes I guess I would feel more comfortable having family members because I can trust them and members of prior campaigns because I already know what to expect of them. But I can understand why that could be a problem. If they are completely incompetent, because of the close ties, he might not want to fire them.

The bottom line is that they are all temporary and they know that. RP set up the campaign for liberty so that once we get enough people we can hold elections and the grassroots can elect the higher ups. That way, if one of his family members is incompetent, we can put someone else in their position that will do a better job. That's why in the end I'm not too concerned, though I'm still going to be skeptical.

[raystone]

Does it bother you at all that the only people on the actual board are either members of his family or members of the prior campaigns?

You and the rest of the grassroots are the Campaign for Liberty, not HQ. Questioning the HQ staff is not accomplishing a damn thing.

Let me know of another liberty organization that has multiple communication tools, voter database tools, political action training, is non-partisan, and that we can attach Ron Paul's name to, and I'll get behind it.

[angelatc]

I see so many posts on this forum where people have misinformation about Campaign for Liberty. I think that part of the blame can go to the campaign itself for not communicating enough with the grassroots. The reason that is such a problem is because 1.) They are a very small staff with a mountain of tasks to complete 2.)

Pfffft. Sounds like it's being run just like the campaign. Imagine that. God forbid they actually use some of that grassroots support to actually accomplish anything.

[slacker921]

Does it bother you at all that the only people on the actual board are either members of his family or members of the prior campaigns?

.. Yes.

[ShannonOBrien]

Pfffft. Sounds like it's being run just like the campaign. Imagine that. God forbid they actually use some of that grassroots support to actually accomplish anything.

Actually, if you sign up to be a precinct leader there are a ton of tasks delegated to you that actually make a concrete difference. Basically, everyone is in charge of their own precinct and they give you all the tools, strategy and materials to win your precinct for liberty. I have not needed anything from the HQs. Any questions I had that couldn't be answered by other precinct leaders were always answered by my state coordinator immediately.

[constituent]

You and the rest of the grassroots are the Campaign for Liberty, not HQ. Questioning the HQ staff is not accomplishing a damn thing.

rofl, neither does giving them free reign.

sounds like a lose/lose to me, but hey, not my problem.

[pacelli]

Well, when I put myself in his shoes I guess I would feel more comfortable having family members because I can trust them and members of prior campaigns because I already know what to expect of them. But I can understand why that could be a problem. If they are completely incompetent, because of the close ties, he might not want to fire them.

The bottom line is that they are all temporary and they know that. RP set up the campaign for liberty so that once we get enough people we can hold elections and the grassroots can elect the higher ups. That way, if one of his family members is incompetent, we can put someone else in their position that will do a better job. That's why in the end I'm not too concerned, though I'm still going to be skeptical.

Thank you for the rational response, you make some good points.

[raystone]

rofl, neither does giving them free reign.

sounds like a lose/lose to me, but hey, not my problem.


free reign as in the reign of a king ?

I'm my own king, aren't you ?

[Sandra]

You and the rest of the grassroots are the Campaign for Liberty, not HQ. Questioning the HQ staff is not accomplishing a damn thing.

Let me know of another liberty organization that has multiple communication tools, voter database tools, political action training, is non-partisan, and that we can attach Ron Paul's name to, and I'll get behind it.


If you reread your post , you'll see you didn't choose the best words in a liberty forum.

Voter databases can also be obtained through your registrar for a small fee. Mine was 10.00 for a download.

[Theocrat]

I'm cool with the "Campaign For Liberty," just as long as they don't try anything foolish like reforming the Republican Party.

[ShannonOBrien]

Thank you for the rational response, you make some good points.

:)

[ShannonOBrien]

Voter databases can also be obtained through your registrar for a small fee. Mine was 10.00 for a download.

Tell me more about this find!

[torchbearer]

Tell me more about this find!

Here you go: http://www.sos.louisiana.gov/tabid/156/Default.aspx
I had a meeting back in september where I explained to a lot of our activist how to acquire voter list for their precincts.
It would be good information for all state coordinators to have published for everyone.

[torchbearer]

people in Louisiana on top of it.

[Eric21ND]

Here you go: http://www.sos.louisiana.gov/tabid/156/Default.aspx
I had a meeting back in september where I explained to a lot of our activist how to acquire voter list for their precincts.
It would be good information for all state coordinators to have published for everyone.
No kidding! I tried to purchase my list and they said it was $200 :rolleyes:

Also I don't know if you guys have this on there or not, but a google map of just your district or precint would be most helpful and listing where and when to vote. Basic stuff like that. On Feb 5th all I did the entire night is direct RP voters to a district map to find theirs and vote accordingly. It was chaos.

[newyearsrevolution08]

No kidding! I tried to purchase my list and they said it was $200 :rolleyes:

Also I don't know if you guys have this on there or not, but a google map of just your district or precint would be most helpful and listing where and when to vote. Basic stuff like that. On Feb 5th all I did the entire night is direct RP voters to a district map to find theirs and vote accordingly. It was chaos.

There is sometimes a trick to it as well though. Go to the place in person and let them know you want the list for general political efforts versus telling them specific candidates or campaigns.

Our precincts were $0.50 a piece I believe and you can get the whole city of a disk for $20 to $50 that lists their political affiliation and the whole deal. It does help out MUCH more than google maps can do.

An easy way to do this is get with your local group and go in together on the list IF it is infact more expensive then that. You would have your fresh list and odds are more fresh than the cfl could provide depending on how they get their lists and how new they are.

It never hurts to try local first then go with the national connections if all else fails.

[LibertyEagle]

Well, when I put myself in his shoes I guess I would feel more comfortable having family members because I can trust them and members of prior campaigns because I already know what to expect of them. But I can understand why that could be a problem. If they are completely incompetent, because of the close ties, he might not want to fire them.

The bottom line is that they are all temporary and they know that. RP set up the campaign for liberty so that once we get enough people we can hold elections and the grassroots can elect the higher ups. That way, if one of his family members is incompetent, we can put someone else in their position that will do a better job. That's why in the end I'm not too concerned, though I'm still going to be skeptical.

Well, that's good to know. That resolves a good deal of my concerns.

[LibertyEagle]

Pfffft. Sounds like it's being run just like the campaign. Imagine that. God forbid they actually use some of that grassroots support to actually accomplish anything.

Well, the grassroots came up with the logo. But, I haven't heard anyone remarking how wonderful that is. :p

[constituent]

Well, the grassroots came up with the logo. But, I haven't heard anyone remarking how wonderful that is. :p

actually, i like the logo quite a bit, though i realize i'm apparently alone on that one.

[constituent]

free reign as in the reign of a king ?

I'm my own king, aren't you ?

lol, try again jr.

[Expatriate]

Why is it that the Ron Paul Revolution is pushing so hard on this whole CFL thing? Some of us aren't really into Canadian football.

Haha, every time I hear about the CFL on the radio or TV up here my brain thinks for a second they are talking about the Campaign for Liberty and not football :p

[ShannonOBrien]

Haha, every time I hear about the CFL on the radio or TV up here my brain thinks for a second they are talking about the Campaign for Liberty and not football :p

OOOOH! Now I get it!

[Pete]

I'm cool with the "Campaign For Liberty," just as long as they don't try anything foolish like reforming the Republican Party.

Huh? :confused:

I guess that was tongue in cheek. Actually, C4L will not attempt to reform the party. The will simply educate voters as to the issues and candidates.

However, if any individual members wish to become involved in party politics... :)

At my county meetup, we decided that during election season, once the C4L meetings are adjourned, the RP2012 meetings or whatever will be called to order.

[ShannonOBrien]

Here you go: http://www.sos.louisiana.gov/tabid/156/Default.aspx
I had a meeting back in september where I explained to a lot of our activist how to acquire voter list for their precincts.
It would be good information for all state coordinators to have published for everyone.

I'm in Washington. I already have a list. Ours are free. :p

[Theocrat]

Huh? :confused:

I guess that was tongue in cheek. Actually, C4L will not attempt to reform the party. The will simply educate voters as to the issues and candidates.

However, if any individual members wish to become involved in party politics... :)

At my county meetup, we decided that during election season, once the C4L meetings are adjourned, the RP2012 meetings or whatever will be called to order.

I can assure you it wasn't tongue-in-cheek. I was serious. The Republican Party had their time, and they failed miserably. In my opinion, it's time for the GOP to go extinct and for another conservative party take the reins of advancing our nation towards sound republican principles before it's too late.

I am glad that the CFL is not getting involved with trying to change the GOP, though. Education on the issues is good. I shall continue to march with them.

[Melissa]

I see so many posts on this forum where people have misinformation about Campaign for Liberty. I think that part of the blame can go to the campaign itself for not communicating enough with the grassroots. The reason that is such a problem is because 1.) They are a very small staff with a mountain of tasks to complete 2.) You have to sign up to be a precinct leader before you can get all of the information! The reason you have to be a precinct leader before you can get the information is because it contains information that can't be given out willy nilly.

I have requested the C4L to clear up all of the confusion but they are unable to give the grassroots its full and undivided attention right now. (They did say that they will have more contact as soon as they possibly can though.) So instead of waiting, I have decided to answer any questions about C4L to the best of my knowledge. I am just a precinct leader but I was very confused when I first signed up and did a lot of asking up the chain of command to get answers. Hopefully I can be of some help to those just as confused as I was.

Wonderful that you are doing this, thanks and I too can help with questions if anyone has any, but as my state is doing you have to get involved to decide what course CFL is going to take in your own state, we are having a state meeting here in Indiana on Saturday to get the ball rolling here

[Pete]

Theocrat, our platform is entirely reasonable for Republicans, and I think it's wiser to work the swing vote within the party, then the swing vote within the population. We really do have a constituency in the GOP (and in the DNC for that matter); they just don't know it yet, which is C4L's job.

The outcome of battles such as the one in Washington State will point the way:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=170921

[angelatc]

Actually, if you sign up to be a precinct leader there are a ton of tasks delegated to you that actually make a concrete difference. Basically, everyone is in charge of their own precinct and they give you all the tools, strategy and materials to win your precinct for liberty. I have not needed anything from the HQs. Any questions I had that couldn't be answered by other precinct leaders were always answered by my state coordinator immediately.

I am not a people person. I can't sell heaters to eskimos and I couldn't win a precinct for Jesus. If and when a viable leader steps up in Livingston County I will happily host every meeting in my house - during the summer we can have cookout and pool parties, and in the winter we can have bonfires and sit in the sauna.

But I am not a good leader and I am not going to pretend that I am. I used to throw up after making cold calls - talking to strangers and trying to sell them something isn't something that comes easily for me and I'll not put myself through that again.

What I was referring to was the constant whining from the C4L staff about how busy they are. Adam can't fix anything because he's too busy. The store isn't open. The DVDs aren't ready. They can't clean spam out of their YouTube comments, all because they're too busy.

I worked my ass off during the campaign, and I saw a lot of the exact some behaviors and tired old excuses then.

There are literally hundreds of people sitting around waiting for a task or a mission while the C4L staff can't get anything done.

Looks like I am not the only one who isn't a very good leader.

[ShannonOBrien]

I am not a people person. I can't sell heaters to eskimos and I couldn't win a precinct for Jesus. If and when a viable leader steps up in Livingston County I will happily host every meeting in my house - during the summer we can have cookout and pool parties, and in the winter we can have bonfires and sit in the sauna.

But I am not a good leader and I am not going to pretend that I am. I used to throw up after making cold calls - talking to strangers and trying to sell them something isn't something that comes easily for me and I'll not put myself through that again.

What I was referring to was the constant whining from the C4L staff about how busy they are. Adam can't fix anything because he's too busy. The store isn't open. The DVDs aren't ready. They can't clean spam out of their YouTube comments, all because they're too busy.

I worked my ass off during the campaign, and I saw a lot of the exact some behaviors and tired old excuses then.

There are literally hundreds of people sitting around waiting for a task or a mission while the C4L staff can't get anything done.

Looks like I am not the only one who isn't a very good leader.

I don't know. I think you sound like a really great leader. It takes a lot of work to host an event. We all have our roles. In your case, you hate calling people on the phone but you love opening up your home to events. That's great. I understand your frustration with the Campaign for Liberty but I hope you reconsider. It would be a shame for your talents not to be put to good use.

[MRoCkEd]

What I was referring to was the constant whining from the C4L staff about how busy they are. Adam can't fix anything because he's too busy. The store isn't open. The DVDs aren't ready. They can't clean spam out of their YouTube comments, all because they're too busy.
I think we need streaming video and audio of inside the HQ so we can be assured that they are working efficiently. ;)

I'm half joking - but maybe recording their meetings would be a good idea.

[Pete]

There are literally hundreds of people sitting around waiting for a task or a mission while the C4L staff can't get anything done.

A point I keep trying to make is that we don't have to wait for the C4L staff. They have put up a pretty nice website and I am grateful for it, but it's up to us to organize C4L in our cities, counties, and states. Our county group is doing OK; we are going to start doing multimedia shows in two communities per month starting in January, the main purpose being to draw in the liberty-minded and do some recruiting. We're also going to form our own not-for-profit, and solicit donations, mainly to cover literature costs and advertising. We have elected officers and a fundraising committee.

One very valuable job I see for non-PLs is reporting news and/or becoming issues experts, and being our own media. This could be awesome. Imagine having our people in city council meetings, school board meetings, and courtrooms, or keeping tabs on statehouse proceedings. We could blog, then use the blog articles for monthly newsletters covering local, state, and federal issues to be distributed by PLs. There can be more than one PL per precinct, or nonpaying members could just help in their precincts, join a political party, etc., etc., etc.

Heck, Angel, you can design your own mission and run it under C4L.

[Elwar]

I can assure you it wasn't tongue-in-cheek. I was serious. The Republican Party had their time, and they failed miserably. In my opinion, it's time for the GOP to go extinct and for another conservative party take the reins of advancing our nation towards sound republican principles before it's too late.

Ya, the Libertarian Party had their chance...the Republican Party had their chance too.

Maybe we can have 5 parties go up against the Democrats. 5 vs 1 should work a lot better.

[DFF]

If I might make a suggestion: People don't understand the Federal Reserve System.

An forum dedicated solely to exploring and exposing the Fed (not just links to books, etc.) would be immensely helpful.

[Sematary]

I see so many posts on this forum where people have misinformation about Campaign for Liberty. I think that part of the blame can go to the campaign itself for not communicating enough with the grassroots. The reason that is such a problem is because 1.) They are a very small staff with a mountain of tasks to complete 2.) You have to sign up to be a precinct leader before you can get all of the information! The reason you have to be a precinct leader before you can get the information is because it contains information that can't be given out willy nilly.

I have requested the C4L to clear up all of the confusion but they are unable to give the grassroots its full and undivided attention right now. (They did say that they will have more contact as soon as they possibly can though.) So instead of waiting, I have decided to answer any questions about C4L to the best of my knowledge. I am just a precinct leader but I was very confused when I first signed up and did a lot of asking up the chain of command to get answers. Hopefully I can be of some help to those just as confused as I was.

I would have signed up as a precinct leader long ago but the system is set up for a pay per precinct leader and I simply don't have any money. So - no sign up.

[angelatc]

Well, the grassroots came up with the logo. But, I haven't heard anyone remarking how wonderful that is. :p

I don't hate it. Actually hadn't heard anything about it until now.

[angelatc]

I would have signed up as a precinct leader long ago but the system is set up for a pay per precinct leader and I simply don't have any money. So - no sign up.

Well move to Livingston County and we'll team up.

[Melissa]

I would have signed up as a precinct leader long ago but the system is set up for a pay per precinct leader and I simply don't have any money. So - no sign up.

Do you have a meetup close to you, we took and helped give to some of our members that could not pay for it by getting donations from our local group

[ShannonOBrien]

I would have signed up as a precinct leader long ago but the system is set up for a pay per precinct leader and I simply don't have any money. So - no sign up.

Melissa had a good suggestion below about that. You can always be a non-dues paying member be just as helpful. You could contact the precinct leaders closest to you through the website. They will need all the help they can get.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, I'm not sure what the big secret is. Yes , You can work your arse off for liberty, but you have to pay us 35 dollars to get the big secrets first., That just makes no damn sense to me...either they WANT to spread liberty or they don't...If I wanted footsoldiers i damn sure wound't CHARGE them to volunteer. I really have an issue wiht this..."ok ..for 35 dollars you can be in the "in crowd"...and that is sure enough blocking me from joining. I feel like if I am willing to drag myself out of the house to go get active...that should be payment enough. It's not the MONEY it is the principle. they should SCRAP the stupid 35 bucks and they would probably get all the precinct leaders they could handle. <EYEROLL> ToneS

[MRoCkEd]

Well, I'm not sure what the big secret is. Yes , You can work your arse off for liberty, but you have to pay us 35 dollars to get the big secrets first., That just makes no damn sense to me...either they WANT to spread liberty or they don't...If I wanted footsoldiers i damn sure wound't CHARGE them to volunteer. I really have an issue wiht this..."ok ..for 35 dollars you can be in the "in crowd"...and that is sure enough blocking me from joining. I feel like if I am willing to drag myself out of the house to go get active...that should be payment enough. It's not the MONEY it is the principle. they should SCRAP the stupid 35 bucks and they would probably get all the precinct leaders they could handle. <EYEROLL> ToneS
The complete yearly updating voter list for all precincts in the nation is $350,000.
They plan to recruit 10,000 precinct leaders in one year.
Being a precinct leader costs $35.
$35 x 10,000 = $350,000

[tonesforjonesbones]

I i can get whatever lists I need from my supervisor of elections for free. I call them and say..I want this or that ..and they send me an email and I print it out. Pretty simple. I was able to get the entire list of libertarians in my county for free...name address phone and email. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

so,.If i get my own list will they waive the 35 bucks? tones

[newyearsrevolution08]

Maybe we can setup a page that has lists and information for various cities on how to get their precinct lists locally. The grassroots could totally do this just by anyone who checks on their cities pricing and so forth can then post it on the site, info, address and so on.

I am actually going to set that up, that would be a great resource. I can set them up and have the price, or list a FREE next to those where the cities give the stuff away as well as ones that provide it online or in person.

Now that $35 hopefully goes towards more than just precinct lists im sure..

[angelatc]

I don't know. I think you sound like a really great leader. It takes a lot of work to host an event. We all have our roles. In your case, you hate calling people on the phone but you love opening up your home to events. That's great. I understand your frustration with the Campaign for Liberty but I hope you reconsider. It would be a shame for your talents not to be put to good use.

Your district is going to do just fine. :)

[newyearsrevolution08]

Your district is going to do just fine. :)

+1776 I completely agree

Keep up the great work everyone

[ShannonOBrien]

Maybe we can setup a page that has lists and information for various cities on how to get their precinct lists locally. The grassroots could totally do this just by anyone who checks on their cities pricing and so forth can then post it on the site, info, address and so on.

I am actually going to set that up, that would be a great resource. I can set them up and have the price, or list a FREE next to those where the cities give the stuff away as well as ones that provide it online or in person.

Now that $35 hopefully goes towards more than just precinct lists im sure..

Way to take the reins! That would be really useful. Let me know when you're looking for lists in Washington state so I can try to send them your way. Oh and maybe it could have some way that only we could get the lists so that the neocons and democrats don't get it. I'm not sure how that would work (a litmus test?) but we want to make things as difficult as possible for them. :)

[ShannonOBrien]

Well, I'm not sure what the big secret is. Yes , You can work your arse off for liberty, but you have to pay us 35 dollars to get the big secrets first., That just makes no damn sense to me...either they WANT to spread liberty or they don't...If I wanted footsoldiers i damn sure wound't CHARGE them to volunteer. I really have an issue wiht this..."ok ..for 35 dollars you can be in the "in crowd"...and that is sure enough blocking me from joining. I feel like if I am willing to drag myself out of the house to go get active...that should be payment enough. It's not the MONEY it is the principle. they should SCRAP the stupid 35 bucks and they would probably get all the precinct leaders they could handle. <EYEROLL> ToneS

Maybe you would be interested in helping out as a non-dues paying member. You can help out just as much as a paying member. You won't have access to the website materials but you could always work with other people in your precinct who do have them. I think you can still use the social networking section to contact the precinct leaders if I'm not mistaken.

[Bradley in DC]

so,.If i get my own list will they waive the 35 bucks? tones

no, that's for Jesse's mortgage and Lexus (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=170986)

[ShannonOBrien]

no, that's for Jesse's mortgage and Lexus (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=170986)

There are so many things wrong with that:
1. You imply that Jesse bought a new house and owns a Lexus because the campaign gave him the donation money for it. You won't even go out and say it.
2. Your only source is a rumor you heard from "some friends."
3. You have a Bob Barr picture as your avatar. And we all know how much we can trust Bob Barr, right?

Sorry, I'm not that stupid. See, when someone makes an accusation like that, I like to see things like "facts" directly from the source. If you can do that, then I'll consider taking you seriously.

[Bradley in DC]

There are so many things wrong with that:
1. You imply that Jesse bought a new house and owns a Lexus because the campaign gave him the donation money for it. You won't even go out and say it.
2. Your only source is a rumor you heard from "some friends."
3. You have a Bob Barr picture as your avatar. And we all know how much we can trust Bob Barr, right?

Sorry, I'm not that stupid. See, when someone makes an accusation like that, I like to see things like "facts" directly from the source. If you can do that, then I'll consider taking you seriously.

Shannon,

I don't know you or have any reason to think you're stupid. I said what I said. It is true that the RP people in Lake Jackson are poking fun about it all. "Some friends" are long time RP community whom I know and trust (and know and trust me). ;)

If you know they're wrong, and can show me, I'll be happy to make a correction and chastise them.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Precinct leaders aren't elected. Anybody can be a precinct leader. You just have to sign up, pay $35 for dues and sign a non-disclosure agreement. (The non-disclosure agreement is there because they give you a list of people in your precinct and their phone numbers. They don't want you to abuse that information.) Right now any higher position (such as a county coordinator) is unelected as well. As soon as a state gets a good amount of precinct leaders, a convention will be held and the precinct leaders will elect their leaders, who will elect their leaders and so on up the food chain. Just like a republic. The number of precinct leaders depends on the state. Some states are small and will require a smaller number of precinct leaders to start elections. As far as I know there is no set in stone number.

I'd imagine many people lead somewhat transient lives, and the expectations of a PL look to be more geared toward settled folk...

I don't know that I care for an election system that excludes dues paying non-PLs.

I wonder at a system that divides its membership with a non-disclosure agreement. (Hell, wasn't it Anita's NDA that caused the first SS in the grassroots...?) The statement that they don't want us to abuse the list just doesn't cut it. Voter lists are public knowledge. Further, the r3VOLution grew as an open source campaign; that is one of our prime attractions. An NDA seems to create an elitist culture. (In fact, ironically, it could be said to be a "secret society" - Bearers of the Sacred Knowledge:eek:.) :p

One problem with secrets is the power it gives the holder to string others along., Another is the the endless opportunity it provides doubters and naysayers to shift focus. Haven't we seen enough of that? And is it worth it?


Well, when I put myself in his shoes I guess I would feel more comfortable having family members because I can trust them and members of prior campaigns because I already know what to expect of them. But I can understand why that could be a problem. If they are completely incompetent, because of the close ties, he might not want to fire them.

The bottom line is that they are all temporary and they know that. RP set up the campaign for liberty so that once we get enough people we can hold elections and the grassroots can elect the higher ups. That way, if one of his family members is incompetent, we can put someone else in their position that will do a better job. That's why in the end I'm not too concerned, though I'm still going to be skeptical.

I'd like to know where this process is described? If such a design goes straight to the top, then I think publicizing it might help recruitment...


Tell me more about this find!

We got our county voter files last fall, from the election board, for $20 a disc. People should call their election office and ask...

[raystone]

Maybe we can setup a page that has lists and information for various cities on how to get their precinct lists locally. The grassroots could totally do this just by anyone who checks on their cities pricing and so forth can then post it on the site, info, address and so on.

I am actually going to set that up, that would be a great resource. I can set them up and have the price, or list a FREE next to those where the cities give the stuff away as well as ones that provide it online or in person.

Now that $35 hopefully goes towards more than just precinct lists im sure..


Based on conference calls with the voter list database programmer Adam de Angeli, voter lists are required at the state level for consistent formatting, datafile type, consistent voter information (opinion on guns, prolife, etc), rather than obtaining for each precinct ward.

My state has 3,000+ precinct wards, it seems to make sense it would be aherculean task to get 2,000 or 5,000 different files to line up to produce a programmable file for each state.

Now, if someone can find state level, current voter lists for free, that's a different story.

[tonesforjonesbones]

It is not about 35 dollars for me it is a matter of principle. I realize a lot of organizations have dues...I thought this was grassroots. I liked it better when we had meet ups and were able to be creative in our own right. I guess it's their way or the highway now...that's not grassroots. Besides, if they were just donation driven, many people would probably donate more than 35 bucks..why put a cap on it? Tones

[newyearsrevolution08]

I agree fully.

[tangent4ronpaul]

It is not about 35 dollars for me it is a matter of principle. I realize a lot of organizations have dues...I thought this was grassroots. I liked it better when we had meet ups and were able to be creative in our own right. I guess it's their way or the highway now...that's not grassroots. Besides, if they were just donation driven, many people would probably donate more than 35 bucks..why put a cap on it? Tones

We still have Meetups and at least Florida and Pennsylvania either coagulated their fecal matter before CFL got around to it or revolted and formed their own state organization. Something like this is afoot in Maryland to. I would be amazed if other states hadn't bailed too.

Your right, this isn't grassroots.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Based on conference calls with the voter list database programmer Adam de Angeli, voter lists are required at the state level for consistent formatting, datafile type, consistent voter information (opinion on guns, prolife, etc), rather than obtaining for each precinct ward.

My state has 3,000+ precinct wards, it seems to make sense it would be aherculean task to get 2,000 or 5,000 different files to line up to produce a programmable file for each state.

Now, if someone can find state level, current voter lists for free, that's a different story.

Not that much of a hurculean task at all because there should be 50 files - each state should be consistent in their format. From what I understand, the grassroots already has 13 of the state VRL's that were used for the Call for Paul project and other uses.

Note that some states include phone numbers and others do not.

The value added here, is the few fields - gun rights, pro-life, etc - 4-6 of them. This data could be collected from private databases.

As to it being such private data - anyone can come up with the money and buy their states voter database. For that matter, there are reverse directories in either hardcopy that many libraries have and available online for a fee - so "to protect private data" is a lark - it's easy to access.

I would be amazed if all the data in the voter vault couldn't be obtained from the states and some private databases for a fraction of the $350,000 being paid for it. The only other good point about the voter vault is the promices of updates - but for how long?

-t

[raystone]

It is not about 35 dollars for me it is a matter of principle. I realize a lot of organizations have dues...I thought this was grassroots. I liked it better when we had meet ups and were able to be creative in our own right. I guess it's their way or the highway now...that's not grassroots. Besides, if they were just donation driven, many people would probably donate more than 35 bucks..why put a cap on it? Tones


We are using C4L as needed in our state to achieve our grassroots goals. We are now executing a strategy to stop Dangerous ID. This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement. We are not waiting for orders from HQ nor asking permission on this or other issues we want to take on.

There's a Donate link top right of C4L site, no cap.



Not that much of a hurculean task at all because there should be 50 files - each state should be consistent in their format. From what I understand, the grassroots already has 13 of the state VRL's that were used for the Call for Paul project and other uses.

Note that some states include phone numbers and others do not.

-t

The herculean task I was referring to would be combining the files that some individuals in some states are able to obtain at no cost. Those thousands of files from individual precinct wards in each state don't come with consistent information, columns, types, etc.
Voter files get outdated quickly. The cost of the voter files from my state's fall presidential election is $12,500.


C4L IS making available shortly a free huge list to re ID past Ron Paul supporters for current members to additional members.

Also BTW, not sure if it has been mentioned, but it should be announced soon there is a long time grassroots member joining the C4L board of directors.

I expect negative posts on how the C4L board is still mostly Ron Paul's family, from his campaign, etc. I'm simply going to continue to work with our state's C4L membership community and tools from the imperfect C4L to fight our fights in my state until there is something better.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Keep up the fight indeed, exciting stuff is happening. I do agree, work with what you have.

[tangent4ronpaul]

We are using C4L as needed in our state to achieve our grassroots goals. We are now executing a strategy to stop Dangerous ID. This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement. We are not waiting for orders from HQ nor asking permission on this or other issues we want to take on.



OK - so your violating your NDA from day one - I'm sure C4L will be thrilled to hear that.

We're trying to get them to do away with it or at least relax it instead.

-t

[LibertyEagle]

Shannon,

I don't know you or have any reason to think you're stupid. I said what I said. It is true that the RP people in Lake Jackson are poking fun about it all. "Some friends" are long time RP community whom I know and trust (and know and trust me). ;)

If you know they're wrong, and can show me, I'll be happy to make a correction and chastise them.

Bradley, will you never stop having a temper tantrum that Ron Paul would not hire you to work for his campaign? Does Jean know you're back to your games? Maybe I should give her a call.

[angelatc]

Bradley, will you never stop having a temper tantrum that Ron Paul would not hire you to work for his campaign? Does Jean know you're back to your games? Maybe I should give her a call.

Why would you do that? Just to stir up crap?

I really wish you and Bradley would just block each other.

[raystone]

OK - so your violating your NDA from day one - I'm sure C4L will be thrilled to hear that.

We're trying to get them to do away with it or at least relax it instead.

-t


Not violating it a bit...the NDA refers to voter data. We haven't even seen that yet from C4L, let alone using it. When we do, the NDA is a needed legal CYA.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Not violating it a bit...the NDA refers to voter data. We haven't even seen that yet from C4L, let alone using it. When we do, the NDA is a needed legal CYA.

WHEREAS, the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY agrees to furnish you with voter data for your precinct, training materials, and the like:

YOU agree as follows:

You shall use the data, lists, and materials *ONLY* for purposes explicitly stated on the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY website, including canvassing and related purposes, as assigned to you to carry out your responsibilities.

...

You shall not download, possess, retain, or disclose any information of or pertaining to any Precinct Leaders in your county or state, except for personal usage for the purpose of supporting the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY Precinct Leader program as described by the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY.

...



This is the same agreement - right?

-t

[raystone]

tangent4ronpaul - I think we are on the same side of the battle. Yes, same agreement. ...training materials, and the like: refers to PL training and things like voter data and PL training matls.
The other lines also refer to the PL program. The entire NDA is signed by PLs for the PL program.
In other words, we are not using the C4L PL program for our current issue fights like Dangerous ID. The C4L is also simply a community of Ron Paul supporters. In fact, only about 7% of C4L members are PLs at this time in our state, which is about the national average. We are contacting people that signed up for user accounts in C4L, and we are using the C4L messaging system to share strategies, inform of upcoming meetings and actions, and find volunteers.
Again, when the voter lists do come out, we'll abide by the PL NDA.

[Wendi]

I'm a precinct leader, but I still don't know what's going on.

[raystone]

I'm a precinct leader, but I still don't know what's going on.

Have you started on the Precinct Leader steps....the first 4 help get PLs up to speed on area political parties and elected officials. Step 5 will be the first outreach activity...finding Ron Paul supporters and getting them involved in your local C4L community. Then you can work with your PL team and your precinct voters in the future to 1) help put pressure on elected officials to vote on the side of liberty and 2) help get elected liberty minded candidates. (the C4L can't endorse candidates, but each C4L member can work towards getting candidates elected.)


Step 1: Get to Know Your Precinct
Step 2: Get to Know the Party Players
Step 3: Get to Know Your Elected Officials
Step 4: Get to Know the Rules (Coming soon)
Step 5: Build Your Precinct Team (Re-ID RP supporters)
Step 6: Set Your Goals and Draft Your Precinct Plan
Step 7: Get to Know the Voters in Your Precinct

[tangent4ronpaul]

tangent4ronpaul - I think we are on the same side of the battle. Yes, same agreement. ...training materials, and the like: refers to PL training and things like voter data and PL training matls.
The other lines also refer to the PL program. The entire NDA is signed by PLs for the PL program.
In other words, we are not using the C4L PL program for our current issue fights like Dangerous ID. The C4L is also simply a community of Ron Paul supporters. In fact, only about 7% of C4L members are PLs at this time in our state, which is about the national average. We are contacting people that signed up for user accounts in C4L, and we are using the C4L messaging system to share strategies, inform of upcoming meetings and actions, and find volunteers.
Again, when the voter lists do come out, we'll abide by the PL NDA.

You keep changing your story.

Here you are saying the NDA is for the training program, while before you said it was for voter data.

and what about:

> This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement.

the NDA specifically refers to lists - and this is a huge fight I'm having with our state group and why we should either get them to reform or start over from scratch.

The NDA also says you can't use CFL resources for anything that isn't C4L blessed and orders from on high. That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

Yes you are violating it. But you are not the problem - C4L is!

-t

[LibertyEagle]

That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

No offense, but this makes sense to me. I'm sure you wouldn't use a membership list for something stupid, but I doubt you're the person they were trying to guard against. Think about it. All I can speak for is myself, but I wouldn't take it too kindly if someone started using a list they got from C4L, with my name and contact info on it, to try to get me to attend some kind of white nationalist event, or something. The possibilities for misuse are endless.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Have you started on the Precinct Leader steps....the first 4 help get PLs up to speed on area political parties and elected officials. Step 5 will be the first outreach activity...finding Ron Paul supporters and getting them involved in your local C4L community. Then you can work with your PL team and your precinct voters in the future to 1) help put pressure on elected officials to vote on the side of liberty and 2) help get elected liberty minded candidates. (the C4L can't endorse candidates, but each C4L member can work towards getting candidates elected.)


Step 1: Get to Know Your Precinct
Step 2: Get to Know the Party Players
Step 3: Get to Know Your Elected Officials
Step 4: Get to Know the Rules (Coming soon)
Step 5: Build Your Precinct Team (Re-ID RP supporters)
Step 6: Set Your Goals and Draft Your Precinct Plan
Step 7: Get to Know the Voters in Your Precinct

Seems simple enough, now for the precincts to actually go out and implement these 7 steps in all cities across America. What is the current CFL Precinct count up to currently?



You keep changing your story.

Here you are saying the NDA is for the training program, while before you said it was for voter data.

and what about:

> This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement.

the NDA specifically refers to lists - and this is a huge fight I'm having with our state group and why we should either get them to reform or start over from scratch.

The NDA also says you can't use CFL resources for anything that isn't C4L blessed and orders from on high. That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

Yes you are violating it. But you are not the problem - C4L is!

-t


I think the Grassroots vs. CFL will continue no matter what happens. Most organizations can't function well without some form of structure. Now it does defeat the grassroots style of campaigning though, if the rp2008 was setup this way then we wouldn't have gotten as far as we did or at least that is the way I see it. BUT in the end, like the rp2008 official campaign the CFL has its own agenda and objectives to deal with WHILE grassroots efforts can continue whether through the cfl OR other online and offline groups and projects.

We worked well with the official campaign, there were plenty of complaints and I do hope the CFL does infact run much smoother than the rp08 campaign did. No matter what though, the cfl will end up doing great things the ,YAL will do great with the college kids, online communities like RPF's will remain alive and expand awareness online and offline as well.

It seems as though people are trying to corral the grassroots as a whole into one group and it really doesn't work that way ESPECIALLY when you have a million different points of views and objects that each person feels is important to them personally.

Simple fix, stay local, fix your own backyard and not worry about others and hope they are doing the same thing. Leave the national efforts to the larger groups LIKE the cfl itself and when the time comes the various grassroots groups and the larger ones will end up backing odds are the same "Few" candidates in the end ESPECIALLY if the candidates are true patriots. They are easy to spot and easy to weed out just as fast.

[Sandra]

The latest and most concise voter data will be at your REGISTRAR OF VOTERS. They will send it to you be CD, download or printed list. Usually for under 15.00. I discovered that second party data is a few months outdated and can lead to pulling your hair out.

[Pete]

You keep changing your story.

Here you are saying the NDA is for the training program, while before you said it was for voter data.

and what about:

> This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement.

the NDA specifically refers to lists - and this is a huge fight I'm having with our state group and why we should either get them to reform or start over from scratch.

The NDA also says you can't use CFL resources for anything that isn't C4L blessed and orders from on high. That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

Yes you are violating it. But you are not the problem - C4L is!

-t

My NDA is no longer available to look at because I OKed it and went to the next step, but I recall it as being quite reasonable: (1) that it's OK to hand out paper copies of voter lists for volunteer use, but they must be collected from the volunteers within 48 hours, and (2) no material is to be distributed BEARING THE C4L LOGO without HQ approval. In other words, you can hand out Das Kapital as long as you don't use their logo or letterhead.

WRT member info, members can choose whether or not to display their real name. Full contact info is only available to coordinators, and then only for the relevant district or county.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Actually, if they are not PL's those lists have to be collected back within 8 hours.

-t

[Pete]

I found that I still have a link to the NDA and it has changed a bit. Nothing about an hour limit on lists used by volunteers, but to collect them when the project is complete.

Any literature to be presented as CFL literature is to be produced and distributed by CFL. I guess the approval process was seen as onerous. Fair enough, although I would like us to do newsletters under our county banner. I will look into this.

Information about PLs is to be used only for supporting supporting the PL program. Also fair.

Newyearsrevolution08, I like your thinking about coexistence of CFL and other efforts. As it is, a lot of CFL members are doing other things as well as CFL and, besides, CFL cannot endorse candidates. The great things about CFL, assuming we fill the precincts, will be (1) wall-to-wall coverage of voters and (2) mobilization on issues, so I hope that many grassroots will consider covering a precinct besides doing their own thing.

[Imperial]

I must note though that CFL state organizations and lower may endorse candidates.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, can you distribute information with out that logo that you make yourself? They probably want to make money by you having to purchase all the materials from them. I ain't crazy about all that...I can print stuff and copy it cheaper on my own...unless theirs are very inexpensive. I found there is NOTHING inexpensive at LPstuff...very expensive. tones

[LibertyEagle]

Well, can you distribute information with out that logo that you make yourself? They probably want to make money by you having to purchase all the materials from them. I ain't crazy about all that...I can print stuff and copy it cheaper on my own...unless theirs are very inexpensive. I found there is NOTHING inexpensive at LPstuff...very expensive. tones

You are creating your own strawman here, Tones, and then shooting it down.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I could while away the hours, conversin with the flowers, consortin with the rain...
and my head I'd be scratchin while my thoughts were busy hatchin ...if i only had a brain..

Great song. Tones :)

[newyearsrevolution08]

I must note though that CFL state organizations and lower may endorse candidates.

Will they be able to endorse AS A CFL Organization itself OR are you saying that the groups themselves will back candidates?

[Pete]

I must note though that CFL state organizations and lower may endorse candidates.

I don't know what they have in mind. In my county, we are talking about having a 501(c)(4) which can't, plus a PAC which can.

[raystone]

Will they be able to endorse AS A CFL Organization itself OR are you saying that the groups themselves will back candidates?


Any 501(c)(4), which is Campaign for Liberty and possibly future state chapters, cannot endorse a specific candidate at the organization level. That does not prohibit individual members from working towards getting particular candidates elected and using the organization to coordinate efforts. Much like the 501(c)(4) Moveon.org members did everything in their power to help get Obama elected.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Any 501(c)(4), which is Campaign for Liberty and possibly future state chapters, cannot endorse a specific candidate at the organization level. That does not prohibit individual members from working towards getting particular candidates elected and using the organization to coordinate efforts. Much like the 501(c)(4) Moveon.org members did everything in their power to help get Obama elected.

Move-on PAC is not Move-on Civic Action


The MoveOn family of organizations is made up of a couple of different pieces. MoveOn.org Civic Action, a 501(c)(4) nonprofit organization, formerly known just as MoveOn.org, primarily focuses on education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn.org Political Action, a federal PAC, formerly known as MoveOn PAC, mobilizes people across the country to fight important battles in Congress and help elect candidates who reflect our values. Both organizations are entirely funded by individuals.
http://www.moveon.org/about.html

[ingrid]

I must note though that CFL state organizations and lower may endorse candidates.

My understanding is that they can't endorse candidates. It would be great if the state organizations could do so.

[JS4Pat]

Is there still an active thread somewhere for C4L comments, suggestions and criticisms?

A thread viewed by someone at C4L?

[raystone]

Looks like Andrew Ward, Director of Outreach, Campaign for Liberty, andrew@campaignforliberty.com

will respond to questions started in a new thread.

[JS4Pat]

Looks like Andrew Ward, Director of Outreach, Campaign for Liberty, andrew@campaignforliberty.com

will respond to questions started in a new thread.

Thanks RayStone.

This is the message I will send....




Andrew –

I am writing to offer my assessment & suggestions for the Campaign for Liberty. I have posted this message on both Daily Paul and Ron Paul Forums. Feel free to respond there so as to reach a larger audience.

My Background:

I’m 39 years old and followed politics since the late 80s.
Served in the military for 13 years
Worked in a paid senior staff position on Pat Buchanan’s Reform Party Presidential Race in 2000 (Ballot Access & Advance Team)
Was the Meetup Organizer for the Jacksonville, FL Ron Paul Meetup Group starting n May 2007
Attended the Rally for the Republic Events in Minneapolis in September 2008
Appointed as the Florida District 7 Campaign for Liberty Representative
Currently serving as the Vice Chair and Membership Director for the Republican Liberty Caucus of Northeast Florida


Campaign for Liberty Overall Assessment

My expectations were very low from the start because I have worked in and for national organizations and understand their impediments & limitations

I did however believe that the movement needed a way to define itself nationally beyond the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign

I thought the grassroots training provided in Minneapolis was excellent

I think building on the Precinct Information (Walking Lists) online software is excellent.
But in assessing the C4L over its first 5+ months my conclusion is that the primary problems is the organization is trying to do too much and is not tightly focused enough on the true needs of the movement.



Re-Inventing the Wheel

This movement does not and did not need a new website for communicating what is going on within the movement. Every day I plug into the following 3 excellent websites for national and local information & communication as to what is happening in the small “C” campaign for liberty :

1. Daily Paul (http://www.dailypaul.com/)
2. Ron Paul Forums (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/)
3. The Republican Liberty Caucus of Northeast Florida (http://republican.meetup.com/609/)

I maintain a Facebook account which provides the means for mass communication beyond our movement’s inner circle. And I am on a multitude of e-mail distribution lists for liberty. Restore the Republic has also established a similar online communication vehicle.

The last thing I needed was ANOTHER website for communicating “what’s going on in the liberty movement”. To me the time. money and effort C4L is spending on a website to communicate Ron Paul’s latest media appearance or important pieces of legislation is a waste.



De-Centralization

The very message of Ron Paul and our movement is decentralization and freedom - so trying to development a leadership structure at the national level down seems to me to be a case of not practicing what we preach.

I want to support C4L because I believe in our cause – but to be honest – the organization has served more as a distraction from the real work we are doing in my local community and state. We have developed a local Charter, new Meetup Group, officers, events, literature etc. for the Republican Liberty Caucus of Northeast Florida. This is how we are keeping the Revolution alive and making a difference . And I know there are other states with other examples of success - doing it their way.

Why burden us with an additional “position” in C4L that is outside of the organization we are building locally?



My Suggestions for Going Forward



Refocus the mission of the Campaign for Liberty. Have it be the national hub for tools for moving the liberty movement forward.


Piggyback on what is already working – Daily Paul, Ron Paul Forums, Restore the Republic, John Birch Society etc.


Have it be a source for contact information for successful revolutionaries in other cities and states. So before I decide to host an event or head up a project in NE Florida – I can contact C4L and find out what other people have already done what I am going to do. This way maybe they can provide me some insight & guidance.


Produce marketing materials - High Quality DVDs, PowerPoint Presentations, Brochures, Rack Cards that explain our movement and specific issues . So if I am given the opportunity to do a 10 minute presentation at my local monthly GOP club meeting – I don’t have to start from scratch.


Be a source for fundraising assistance. Find out what has been successful around the country and help local movements replicate what works.


Reduce the full time C4L “paid staff” and instead encourage short internships (with a stipend) for the best local movement leaders around the country so there is constantly fresh ideas generated at the national level of the organization.


Host regional events that any group involved in the liberty movement (no matter what the vehicle) can promote and use as a local recruiting tool.


Design a New C4L Logo. The current C4L is not effective. It is “old looking” and not easily identifiable. Something more modern and youthful is needed. I guarantee if you sponsor a national contest to redesign the logo and have the C4L membership vote on the winner – we will have a much more effective logo.


In order for all this to work the attitude at C4L has to be “what is best for promoting the movement and the message” – NOT necessarily what is best for making C4L stronger. In other words C4L can’t see itself in competition with the Libertarian Party, JBS, Constitution Party, The Republican Liberty Caucus etc. They have to be willing to reach out and try to build more coalitions – rather than an independent empire.

There is plenty of opportunity for C4L even with the myriad of freedom organizations already in existence.

[raystone]

Be sure to send this to your Florida C4L state coordinator, too. Would be interesting to see his response. I think it's Mark Cross, also running for Republican state chairman.

[Andrew Ward]

I am writing to offer my assessment & suggestions for the Campaign for Liberty. I have posted this message on both Daily Paul and Ron Paul Forums. Feel free to respond there so as to reach a larger audience.

Thanks for your detailed feedback, JS4Pat. I'm sorry it took me this long to get back to you. We've all been very busy.



This movement does not and did not need a new website for communicating what is going on within the movement.

We're trying to be informative for our members and visitors to the website. We're currently working to strengthen our front page commentary. Anthony Gregory is on board to help us present featured articles from seasoned writers.


The last thing I needed was ANOTHER website for communicating "what's going on in the liberty movement". To me the time. money and effort C4L is spending on a website to communicate Ron Paul's latest media appearance or important pieces of legislation is a waste.

We don't believe that a national organization showcasing what's going on in the liberty movement is a waste.


The very message of Ron Paul and our movement is decentralization and freedom - so trying to development a leadership structure at the national level down seems to me to be a case of not practicing what we preach.

It's true, we're a top-down organization. But so are most successful organizations.. :) however, state chapters will be largely autonomous. We understand that decentralized activist activity is vital to the movement. We hope to subsidize those activities.


I want to support C4L because I believe in our cause – but to be honest – the organization has served more as a distraction from the real work we are doing in my local community and state. We have developed a local Charter, new Meetup Group, officers, events, literature etc. for the Republican Liberty Caucus of Northeast Florida. This is how we are keeping the Revolution alive and making a difference . And I know there are other states with other examples of success - doing it their way.

Well, we certainly appreciate all the hard work you're doing out there. Could you tell me more about the local Charter? We're developing better tools for communication between site users to let them know that they aren't alone in their struggle locally. Our existence will help many individuals at the local level understand that there are many activists within a national organization who are committed to working for liberty in America.


Why burden us with an additional "position" in C4L that is outside of the organization we are building locally?

I don't think you have to have a burdensome "position" to make use of the tools we provide. Quite a few local C4L groups are starting up, and many of our members belong to local groups as well.



* Refocus the mission of the Campaign for Liberty. Have it be the national hub for tools for moving the liberty movement forward.

That's where we are going with it! ;)


* Piggyback on what is already working – Daily Paul, Ron Paul Forums, Restore the Republic, John Birch Society etc.

Not likely to happen. We can all be friends, but it would be wise of us (and best for the movement) for us to keep things at arms length. Our members are free to post and cite sources from laces like RPF, DP or other liberty sites. For instance: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=7512



* Have it be a source for contact information for successful revolutionaries in other cities and states. So before I decide to host an event or head up a project in NE Florida – I can contact C4L and find out what other people have already done what I am going to do. This way maybe they can provide me some insight & guidance.

The site is getting there. The State pages need more work, that's for sure. We've developed a Recent Member Post section as a way to advance communication between our members. A forum is still being programmed, but it has made substantial progress.


* Produce marketing materials - High Quality DVDs, PowerPoint Presentations, Brochures, Rack Cards that explain our movement and specific issues . So if I am given the opportunity to do a 10 minute presentation at my local monthly GOP club meeting – I don't have to start from scratch.

We've hired a Director of Marketing. Matt Holdridge is currently working quite a bit on brochures to present at CPAC! I'll forward him your suggestions. You can do so, too: designs@campaignforliberty.com


* Be a source for fundraising assistance. Find out what has been successful around the country and help local movements replicate what works.

I don't believe we can fundraise for candidates. I'm sure we'll aid our state chapters in raising funds. I'll talk to our Director of Development and President about this.


* Reduce the full time C4L "paid staff" and instead encourage short internships (with a stipend) for the best local movement leaders around the country so there is constantly fresh ideas generated at the national level of the organization.

We're getting more interns. We certainly need them... I believe we are to remain somewhat small for the time being. Our staff listing can be found here: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/staff.php


* Host regional events that any group involved in the liberty movement (no matter what the vehicle) can promote and use as a local recruiting tool.

This is in the works. Major progress has been made here by VP of Membership, Debbie Hopper.



* Design a New C4L Logo. The current C4L is not effective. It is "old looking" and not easily identifiable. Something more modern and youthful is needed. I guarantee if you sponsor a national contest to redesign the logo and have the C4L membership vote on the winner – we will have a much more effective logo.

This was a while back, but I'm quite certain that the logo was picked from a contest.. we might have to rethink the logo, at it is, as my friend puts it "straight from a 1950s Disney movie". . .:o

I will say this: Given that we are addressing quite a few controversial issues, the logo does help us come off as not evil, and pro American. I don't see how we could be construed as the bad guys with a logo like the one we have! :) Logo changes do happen, so it's certainly possible.


In order for all this to work the attitude at C4L has to be "what is best for promoting the movement and the message" – NOT necessarily what is best for making C4L stronger. In other words C4L can't see itself in competition with the Libertarian Party, JBS, Constitution Party, The Republican Liberty Caucus etc. They have to be willing to reach out and try to build more coalitions – rather than an independent empire.

While I don't think we can work closely with parties, state chapters will be able to do it. Either way, many of our members are also members of those organizations. Expect more coalition building in the future..


There is plenty of opportunity for C4L even with the myriad of freedom organizations already in existence.

We think so too. Again, thanks much for your feedback. Let me know if I can be of any assistance to you.