reduen
12-03-2008, 09:15 AM
Below is a perfect example of why the GOP is hopeless! It is a conversation (via e-mail) between myself and a guy who claims that he wants to rebuild the GOP from South Carolina...! His name is Dean.
Read it from the bottom up and tell me what you think..
Chris,
I wish you well. Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
My focus is rebuilding the GOP to save America, not debating others who are just too far out for m to comprehend. You will receive no further mail from me.
Thanks,
Dean
--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Chris
From: Chris
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
To
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 1:54 AM
Frankly Dean, it is you who are mistaken and it appears that there is no hope for you. In my opinion it is people like you that are the reason that the GOP is dead. Yes I said dead and until you guys quit falling for all the lies and misinformation being spread around about how Iraqis and Iranians, and Syrians, etc.. and everybody with a rag on their head wants us dead because we are free you will never come to the truth...(Actually there is probably more truth to this today than before 9/11 because of this war of course..)
You say your goal is the safety of America and that you have also seen countries destroyed and civilians killed, maimed, and displaced in large numbers. There is absolutely nothing you will not do to see that this does not happen here in our country.
Why do you think that they are mad at us? Why do you think that they hate us enough to blow themselves up just to kill us? We have done this very thing to them in Iraq etc..
You seem to intentionally miss the point that no country did anything to us nor could they or would they. Why is this?
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 innocent people and injured 450 in his Oklahoma bombing but did we go bomb Ireland or the Vatican because he was of Irish Catholic decent? Where were the 9/11 terrorists from?
They were heartless criminals who are said to be part of a criminal organization and they should have and still should be dealt with in this fashion period. Would that not be enough blood for you soldier?
Call me crazy but I am one that believes that we should treat other nations as we would like to be treated and that this is the real key to our security here in the United States.
Do you really believe that my number one goal is not to protect my family? (We do live here in the United States of America by the way) I believe that this war has made us less safe than we were before it started.
I consider myself a respectable man within my community, and have very respectable friends here and I can tell you that we all fear our own government much more than we will ever fear Islamo-Fascist!
Again, why Iraq Dean? You might want to check your "facts" again on the "550 TONS of yellow cake uranium from Iraq to Canada".
Do you really believe anything that comes from the Bush administration?
By the way, you are not the only one with blood on your hands. However, mine have since been washed and I am just one who has "seen the light".
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean
To: Chris
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
Chris,
Yes, I read your letter carefully. I have received several letters from people who were conservative, except for the strong national defense that was a vital part of the Reagan revolution - and a vital part of the winning GOP coalition.
I am working on a response to those folks. However, I will give you the basic overview of my current thought. Bear in mind as you read this, my first goal is the safety of the United States of America. My second goal is to build a winning Republican party because I believe that is the best way - and the only non-violent way - to make America strong, free and prosperous.
I do not mean this to be unkind but I do not believe you share my goals. We are also going to disagree on another fundamental point. If I am reading your letter fairly, you are basically a pacifist who does not believe in war.
I have been to war three times. Once to Korea and twice to Vietnam. Nobody hates a war any more than a man who has seen one up close, as I have. However, I have also seen countries destroyed and civilians killed, maimed, and displaced in large numbers. There is absolutely nothing I will not do to see that this does not happen here in our country.
You are simply mistaken about the need for the war on Islamo-fascism and the fact that every part of it world wide is a wholistic and interconnected network.
You have also been misinformed about Weapons of Mass Destruction. We now know very clearly that the Saddam Hussein government did have a large and sophisticated program. One of many proofs was the shipment about a month ago of 550 TONS of yellow cake uranium from Iraq to Canada. That alone is clear proof of a nuclear program.
There are two things that you are very correct about. The Bush administration has left our southern border wide open which has exposed us to the probability of our enemies smuggling weapons into this country just as drugs are smuggled in.
You are also correct that President Bush has grossly mismanaged the conduct of the war, starting with the appointment of Don Rumsfeldt as Secretary of Defense. Rumsfeldt was a bumbling idiot who got us bogged down when we should have been - in the words of Elvis presley - Taking care of business quick as a flash.
I will give you a more detailed response later. I am swamped with hundreds of e-mails. (I also had to stop for three phone calls while writing this.)
Best Wishes,
Dean
From: Chris
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
To: Dean
Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:39 PM
Very good stuff in this attachment Dean, I agree with 100% of it but did you even bother to read my last response to you below?
I am very Pro-Life but not just American lives. I believe that the Iraqi's that have died because of this war deserved to live also...
Chris R.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean
To: Chris
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
See attached & give feedback.
From: Chris
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
To: Dean
Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 12:19 PM
Dean,
Though I agree with much of the material you sent me here, I am afraid that it is a hopeless cause.
I have recently decided to associate myself with the Constitution Party for many of the very reasons you have pointed out. I used to consider myself a Conservative Christian Republican but I have found that these three words have somehow taken on an entire different meaning than they use to have.
Consider this:
Republican - Use to mean that you were for small government and low taxes basically.
Conservative - Meant that one supports the preservation of the heritage of our nation and culture, and prudence in government spending and debt.
Christian - Use to mean that you were a believer and follower of Jesus the Christ and that you obeyed His commandments and followed His teachings.
The war in Iraq and the corporate bailouts showed me that today's "Conservative Christian Republicans" are nothing like the above anymore and from your information you sent me, I gather that you and I would disagree on a few very important topics.
The Iraq war goes against all of the Conservative Christian Republican principles I have laid out above. I can't believe for a second that those who call themselves "Conservative Christian Republicans" like Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee can not see this clearly and yet they still support it to this day. (I gather that you are a big Palin/Huckabee fan..) There is nothing Conservative, Christian, or Republican about it..
Christian - I personally do not believe that a Christian is able to go to war and a Christian leader may not declare war but even if you could make a case for a "Just War" scenario, the Iraq war could never be considered a "Just War".
Conservative - The founders of this nation would have never approved of the Iraqi war. It is nothing less than foreign interventionalism at its finest and as Cheney himself pointed out a decade before this war, the cost would be immeasurable in both lives and dollars...
9/11 - A. Was not carried out by any country or by any army who represented a country or religion in general.
B. Was carried out by a bunch of Saudi Arabian Extremists or Al-Qaida. (Who could have been stopped by the way, had our government not been so incompetent.) Not Iraqi or Iranian, or Syrian, or Pakistani etc...
Iraq and/ or Saddam - A. Did not harbor any Al-Qaida members before the war.
B. Had no WMD's that would threaten the United Stated.
C. Got any WMD's or chemical weapons that they ever had from US! (United States of America)
The very weapons that Hussein used against his own people, he got from the United States when he was our buddy and we already knew that he had used them many years before the war in Iraq!
Do you or anybody else really think that we could not have just taken Saddam out of power without killing thousands or millions of other innocent people and destroying billions worth of infrastructure?
Tell me again, what was the reason for going to war there in the first place?
Does 3 or 4 thousand American deaths on American soil justify 3 or 4 thousand or more American deaths on foreign soil and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis?
Again, why Iraq and Pakistan and not Saudi Arabia where the terrorists really came from?
Exactly what gives our Republic the right to go around the world using a Dictator to promote Democracy?
There is much more that I could say about this war but really no need to continue....
You see, I have become disillusioned with just about all career politicians for the simple fact that they all lie... (Ron Paul being one of the very few exceptions to this case.) One can never know where they really stand until after the damage has already been done because of this fact...
Did you notice how poorly Huckabee treated Dr. Paul during the debates and the campaign in general? Why would a Christian man treat someone in such a manner? (Especially another Christian...)
I look forward to your response..
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean
To:
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
Chris and Sonny,
Please keep in touch with me. Also, please read the attachments to this letter and give me your feedback and advice.
Best Wishes,
Dean
Read it from the bottom up and tell me what you think..
Chris,
I wish you well. Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
My focus is rebuilding the GOP to save America, not debating others who are just too far out for m to comprehend. You will receive no further mail from me.
Thanks,
Dean
--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Chris
From: Chris
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
To
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 1:54 AM
Frankly Dean, it is you who are mistaken and it appears that there is no hope for you. In my opinion it is people like you that are the reason that the GOP is dead. Yes I said dead and until you guys quit falling for all the lies and misinformation being spread around about how Iraqis and Iranians, and Syrians, etc.. and everybody with a rag on their head wants us dead because we are free you will never come to the truth...(Actually there is probably more truth to this today than before 9/11 because of this war of course..)
You say your goal is the safety of America and that you have also seen countries destroyed and civilians killed, maimed, and displaced in large numbers. There is absolutely nothing you will not do to see that this does not happen here in our country.
Why do you think that they are mad at us? Why do you think that they hate us enough to blow themselves up just to kill us? We have done this very thing to them in Iraq etc..
You seem to intentionally miss the point that no country did anything to us nor could they or would they. Why is this?
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 innocent people and injured 450 in his Oklahoma bombing but did we go bomb Ireland or the Vatican because he was of Irish Catholic decent? Where were the 9/11 terrorists from?
They were heartless criminals who are said to be part of a criminal organization and they should have and still should be dealt with in this fashion period. Would that not be enough blood for you soldier?
Call me crazy but I am one that believes that we should treat other nations as we would like to be treated and that this is the real key to our security here in the United States.
Do you really believe that my number one goal is not to protect my family? (We do live here in the United States of America by the way) I believe that this war has made us less safe than we were before it started.
I consider myself a respectable man within my community, and have very respectable friends here and I can tell you that we all fear our own government much more than we will ever fear Islamo-Fascist!
Again, why Iraq Dean? You might want to check your "facts" again on the "550 TONS of yellow cake uranium from Iraq to Canada".
Do you really believe anything that comes from the Bush administration?
By the way, you are not the only one with blood on your hands. However, mine have since been washed and I am just one who has "seen the light".
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean
To: Chris
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
Chris,
Yes, I read your letter carefully. I have received several letters from people who were conservative, except for the strong national defense that was a vital part of the Reagan revolution - and a vital part of the winning GOP coalition.
I am working on a response to those folks. However, I will give you the basic overview of my current thought. Bear in mind as you read this, my first goal is the safety of the United States of America. My second goal is to build a winning Republican party because I believe that is the best way - and the only non-violent way - to make America strong, free and prosperous.
I do not mean this to be unkind but I do not believe you share my goals. We are also going to disagree on another fundamental point. If I am reading your letter fairly, you are basically a pacifist who does not believe in war.
I have been to war three times. Once to Korea and twice to Vietnam. Nobody hates a war any more than a man who has seen one up close, as I have. However, I have also seen countries destroyed and civilians killed, maimed, and displaced in large numbers. There is absolutely nothing I will not do to see that this does not happen here in our country.
You are simply mistaken about the need for the war on Islamo-fascism and the fact that every part of it world wide is a wholistic and interconnected network.
You have also been misinformed about Weapons of Mass Destruction. We now know very clearly that the Saddam Hussein government did have a large and sophisticated program. One of many proofs was the shipment about a month ago of 550 TONS of yellow cake uranium from Iraq to Canada. That alone is clear proof of a nuclear program.
There are two things that you are very correct about. The Bush administration has left our southern border wide open which has exposed us to the probability of our enemies smuggling weapons into this country just as drugs are smuggled in.
You are also correct that President Bush has grossly mismanaged the conduct of the war, starting with the appointment of Don Rumsfeldt as Secretary of Defense. Rumsfeldt was a bumbling idiot who got us bogged down when we should have been - in the words of Elvis presley - Taking care of business quick as a flash.
I will give you a more detailed response later. I am swamped with hundreds of e-mails. (I also had to stop for three phone calls while writing this.)
Best Wishes,
Dean
From: Chris
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
To: Dean
Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:39 PM
Very good stuff in this attachment Dean, I agree with 100% of it but did you even bother to read my last response to you below?
I am very Pro-Life but not just American lives. I believe that the Iraqi's that have died because of this war deserved to live also...
Chris R.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean
To: Chris
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
See attached & give feedback.
From: Chris
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
To: Dean
Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 12:19 PM
Dean,
Though I agree with much of the material you sent me here, I am afraid that it is a hopeless cause.
I have recently decided to associate myself with the Constitution Party for many of the very reasons you have pointed out. I used to consider myself a Conservative Christian Republican but I have found that these three words have somehow taken on an entire different meaning than they use to have.
Consider this:
Republican - Use to mean that you were for small government and low taxes basically.
Conservative - Meant that one supports the preservation of the heritage of our nation and culture, and prudence in government spending and debt.
Christian - Use to mean that you were a believer and follower of Jesus the Christ and that you obeyed His commandments and followed His teachings.
The war in Iraq and the corporate bailouts showed me that today's "Conservative Christian Republicans" are nothing like the above anymore and from your information you sent me, I gather that you and I would disagree on a few very important topics.
The Iraq war goes against all of the Conservative Christian Republican principles I have laid out above. I can't believe for a second that those who call themselves "Conservative Christian Republicans" like Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee can not see this clearly and yet they still support it to this day. (I gather that you are a big Palin/Huckabee fan..) There is nothing Conservative, Christian, or Republican about it..
Christian - I personally do not believe that a Christian is able to go to war and a Christian leader may not declare war but even if you could make a case for a "Just War" scenario, the Iraq war could never be considered a "Just War".
Conservative - The founders of this nation would have never approved of the Iraqi war. It is nothing less than foreign interventionalism at its finest and as Cheney himself pointed out a decade before this war, the cost would be immeasurable in both lives and dollars...
9/11 - A. Was not carried out by any country or by any army who represented a country or religion in general.
B. Was carried out by a bunch of Saudi Arabian Extremists or Al-Qaida. (Who could have been stopped by the way, had our government not been so incompetent.) Not Iraqi or Iranian, or Syrian, or Pakistani etc...
Iraq and/ or Saddam - A. Did not harbor any Al-Qaida members before the war.
B. Had no WMD's that would threaten the United Stated.
C. Got any WMD's or chemical weapons that they ever had from US! (United States of America)
The very weapons that Hussein used against his own people, he got from the United States when he was our buddy and we already knew that he had used them many years before the war in Iraq!
Do you or anybody else really think that we could not have just taken Saddam out of power without killing thousands or millions of other innocent people and destroying billions worth of infrastructure?
Tell me again, what was the reason for going to war there in the first place?
Does 3 or 4 thousand American deaths on American soil justify 3 or 4 thousand or more American deaths on foreign soil and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis?
Again, why Iraq and Pakistan and not Saudi Arabia where the terrorists really came from?
Exactly what gives our Republic the right to go around the world using a Dictator to promote Democracy?
There is much more that I could say about this war but really no need to continue....
You see, I have become disillusioned with just about all career politicians for the simple fact that they all lie... (Ron Paul being one of the very few exceptions to this case.) One can never know where they really stand until after the damage has already been done because of this fact...
Did you notice how poorly Huckabee treated Dr. Paul during the debates and the campaign in general? Why would a Christian man treat someone in such a manner? (Especially another Christian...)
I look forward to your response..
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean
To:
Cc:
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Shopping Money : see attached
Chris and Sonny,
Please keep in touch with me. Also, please read the attachments to this letter and give me your feedback and advice.
Best Wishes,
Dean