PDA

View Full Version : Mental illness risk ‘rises 30 per cent for women who have abortions’




literatim
11-30-2008, 08:08 AM
Mental illness risk ‘rises 30 per cent for women who have abortions’
By Rachel Ellis

Women who have an abortion are three times more likely to develop a drug or alcohol addiction and 30 per cent more likely to have mental disorders compared with other women, research has revealed.

The evidence from two studies comes as the number of women having an abortion in England and Wales exceeded 200,000 for the first time last year.

More abortions – 57,000 – were carried out on women aged 20 to 24 than any other age group. However, there were 4,400 on the under-16s.

Anxiety and drug abuse are the most common mental problems after an abortion, according to a study of 500 women published today in the British Journal of Psychiatry.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1090535/Mental-illness-risk--8216-rises-30-cent-women-abortions-8217.html

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 08:11 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1090535/Mental-illness-risk--8216-rises-30-cent-women-abortions-8217.html

A survey of a whole 500 people. I bet I could get some really interesting views with a range of only 500 people on any topic. It's just a way of shaping public opinion to limit the rights of an individual to make a decision about their life, but instead of framing it as protecting the unborn, they are trying to say "oh don't have the abortion bc it can lead to mental illness." The agenda is evident.

Dojo
11-30-2008, 08:14 AM
A survey of a whole 500 people. I bet I could get some really interesting views with a range of only 500 people on any topic. It's just a way of shaping public opinion to limit the rights of an individual to make a decision about their life, but instead of framing it as protecting the unborn, they are trying to say "oh don't have the abortion bc it can lead to mental illness." The agenda is evident.

Agree........and well put

freedom-maniac
11-30-2008, 08:21 AM
Poetic justice. Besides, we already knew this.

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 08:37 AM
Not only is the sample size rediculously small and easily able to manipulate, you are also intellectually dishonest by only including tidbits you picked out of the article to fit your position but not the other article points as well...such as:

But his team at the University of Otago, New Zealand, said the overall effect of abortion on mental health was small. They estimate it is responsible for between 1.5 per cent and 5.5 per cent of disorders.

or maybe....

Ann Furedi, of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, admitted abortion could cause a huge amount of stress and anxiety but added: ‘Abortion does not necessarily cause the problem. It can be linked to other events in their life.’

Natalie
11-30-2008, 08:40 AM
A girl I know had an abortion, and then she felt so bad about it that she tried to kill herself :eek:

AutoDas
11-30-2008, 08:40 AM
And 70% of those other women live happier lives. So what? It's their lives.

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 08:40 AM
And to finish off this debate with the hope that such ignorant smut is not tossed around again, here is an article from the NY Times that references a study done by the American Psychological Association that found no link between abortion and mental illness.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/health/research/13brfs-ABORTIONDOES_BRF.html?_r=1

Truth Warrior
11-30-2008, 08:42 AM
Prevent unwanted pregnancies!

It's the grown up way and thing to do.<IMHO> ;)

AutoDas
11-30-2008, 08:46 AM
News break: Mental illness risk ‘rises 30 per cent for women who have babies’

literatim
11-30-2008, 09:10 AM
Not only is the sample size rediculously small and easily able to manipulate, you are also intellectually dishonest by only including tidbits you picked out of the article to fit your position but not the other article points as well...such as:

Tidbits I picked out? I quoted the first few paragraphs.

freedom-maniac
11-30-2008, 09:10 AM
There is a good case against abortion, but this is not it.

literatim
11-30-2008, 09:11 AM
News break: Mental illness risk ‘rises 30 per cent for women who have babies’

The study says otherwise.


Professor David Fergusson, who led the research, said the findings had ‘important implications’ – because more than 90 per cent of British abortions were authorised on the grounds that keeping an unwanted baby would cause the mother mental health problems.

He said: ‘This evidence clearly poses a challenge to the use of psychiatric reasons to justify abortion. There is nothing in this study that would suggest that the termination of pregnancy was associated with lower risks of mental health problems than birth.

M House
11-30-2008, 09:13 AM
Maybe women who have abortions just have higher rates of mental illness. So that would make the article a good support for what exactly?

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 09:14 AM
The study says otherwise.

Yes and the study is also small, biased and insignificant. The study I clearly linked you to was performed by the APA. This argument is pure ignorance. As said before, you can make arguments against abortion but this isn't one of them, it's rediculous and I have adequately disproven your shakey evidence.

literatim
11-30-2008, 09:16 AM
How about all these other studies?

Royal college warns abortions can lead to mental illness (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3559486.ece)

Abortion exposes women to higher risk of depression (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article615150.ece)

Study: Abortion increases suicide risk (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47705)

Abortion, Depression, Suicide (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/621005/abortion_depression_suicide.html?cat=2)

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 09:20 AM
How about all these other studies?

Royal college warns abortions can lead to mental illness (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3559486.ece)

Abortion exposes women to higher risk of depression (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article615150.ece)

Study: Abortion increases suicide risk (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47705)

Abortion, Depression, Suicide (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/621005/abortion_depression_suicide.html?cat=2)

Look if I have to sit here and pull these studies case by case and show you they are all faulty, I will. I noticed you still have made no comment on the APA study. Dude face it, you came in with bad evidence, pushing bad science and you lost your argument. It would save us both a lot of time if you didnt' make me disprove your "studies" even more, but if it means I dont' have to read rediculous smut like this anymore, I'll take the time to do it.

literatim
11-30-2008, 09:22 AM
I have no argument. I am merely posting studies. I personally couldn't careless if someone who has an abortion has a mental breakdown. They deserve a far worse punishment.

M House
11-30-2008, 09:23 AM
Wouldn't doubt it'd actually have an effect. Artificially impacting their reproductive track would lead to massive hormonal changes. But like I said couldn't women who have abortions simply just have higher rates to begin with? I mean it's tough to draw conclusions from studies that are very vague and general. Considering the depth and scientific precision the medical research field is capable of this kinda shit adds nothing to anyones lives.

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 09:47 AM
How about all these other studies?

Royal college warns abortions can lead to mental illness (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3559486.ece)

Abortion exposes women to higher risk of depression (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article615150.ece)

Study: Abortion increases suicide risk (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47705)

Abortion, Depression, Suicide (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/621005/abortion_depression_suicide.html?cat=2)

Ok here we go. Showing how stupid this argument is, lets start with "study" 1.

Royal College Warns Abortions can (that's a dead giveaway right there) lead to mental illness. (So can debating with people on message boards who have no idea what they are talking about)

Here's a few snippits you might want to read from your own article:

Women may be at risk of mental health breakdowns if they have abortions, a medical royal college has warned. The Royal College of Psychiatrists says women should not be allowed to have an abortion until they are counselled on the possible risk to their mental health. (but then again, maybe not)

Several studies, including research published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry in 2006, concluded that abortion in young women might be associated with risks of mental health problems. (I might be going crazy in this convo with you....might not. Doesn't prove a thing).

The underlying fact here is in that article there is not 1 thing that says abortions cause mental illness. Not one. Quit wasting our time.

Kludge
11-30-2008, 09:58 AM
Prevent unwanted pregnancies!

It's the grown up way and thing to do.<IMHO> ;)

Ewwwe... Advocating responsibility is what holier-than-thou parents do.


You just don't understand me!!!! I'm UNIQUE and have UNIQUE opinions! You just want me to conform! You're such a control freak! I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOOOOOU!!!! *illegible screams followed by thundering stomps*

Dojo
11-30-2008, 10:02 AM
I have no argument. I am merely posting studies. I personally couldn't careless if someone who has an abortion has a mental breakdown. They deserve a far worse punishment.


Talk about punishment.............. Let me post a study just as ridiculous, anyone can play this game...

Study Suggests Vasectomy-Dementia Link
Ties to Rare Form of Dementia Seen in Early Research Must Be Confirmed

By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Health News

Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD
on Thursday, February 22, 2007



Feb. 22, 2007 -- Having a vasectomy may increase a man's risk of developing a rare form of dementia , early research suggests, although more study is needed to confirm the finding.

Researchers at Chicago's Northwestern University found that men with a neurological condition known as primary progressive aphasia, or PPA, were more likely to have had the sterilization surgery than men without the disorder.

PPA is a rare condition characterized by a steady loss of language skills.

It primarily occurs after age 50. Those with the disorder have increasing difficulty expressing themselves and understanding speech.

"We definitely aren't saying that having a vasectomy causes this condition or that men should not have vasectomies," researcher Sandra Weintraub, PhD, tells WebMD. "It is way too early for that. We need to do more research to understand this."

Truth Warrior
11-30-2008, 10:11 AM
Ewwwe... Advocating responsibility is what holier-than-thou parents do.


You just don't understand me!!!! I'm UNIQUE and have UNIQUE opinions! You just want me to conform! You're such a control freak! I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOOOOOU!!!! *illegible screams followed by thundering stomps*

And sadly, thus the tyrannical Empire is continually fed. :p :rolleyes: :(

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 10:11 AM
Talk about punishment.............. Let me post a study just as ridiculous, anyone can play this game...

Study Suggests Vasectomy-Dementia Link
Ties to Rare Form of Dementia Seen in Early Research Must Be Confirmed

By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Health News

Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD
on Thursday, February 22, 2007



Feb. 22, 2007 -- Having a vasectomy may increase a man's risk of developing a rare form of dementia , early research suggests, although more study is needed to confirm the finding.

Researchers at Chicago's Northwestern University found that men with a neurological condition known as primary progressive aphasia, or PPA, were more likely to have had the sterilization surgery than men without the disorder.

PPA is a rare condition characterized by a steady loss of language skills.

It primarily occurs after age 50. Those with the disorder have increasing difficulty expressing themselves and understanding speech.

"We definitely aren't saying that having a vasectomy causes this condition or that men should not have vasectomies," researcher Sandra Weintraub, PhD, tells WebMD. "It is way too early for that. We need to do more research to understand this."

I do believe you have effectively driven the nail in the coffin of this thread. I salute you good sir:)

Pete
11-30-2008, 10:20 AM
The very idea that anyone could have remorse over killing their own child is patently absurd.

literatim
11-30-2008, 10:46 AM
Talk about punishment.............. Let me post a study just as ridiculous, anyone can play this game...

Study Suggests Vasectomy-Dementia Link
Ties to Rare Form of Dementia Seen in Early Research Must Be Confirmed

By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Health News

Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD
on Thursday, February 22, 2007



Feb. 22, 2007 -- Having a vasectomy may increase a man's risk of developing a rare form of dementia , early research suggests, although more study is needed to confirm the finding.

Researchers at Chicago's Northwestern University found that men with a neurological condition known as primary progressive aphasia, or PPA, were more likely to have had the sterilization surgery than men without the disorder.

PPA is a rare condition characterized by a steady loss of language skills.

It primarily occurs after age 50. Those with the disorder have increasing difficulty expressing themselves and understanding speech.

"We definitely aren't saying that having a vasectomy causes this condition or that men should not have vasectomies," researcher Sandra Weintraub, PhD, tells WebMD. "It is way too early for that. We need to do more research to understand this."

What game? Having an unnatural procedure done to your body that could effectively emasculate the person could very well have a negative effect on the recipient.

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 10:47 AM
What game? Having an unnatural procedure done to your body that could effectively emasculate the person could very well have a negative effect on the recipient.

I seriously have never met someone that clearly misses the point as much as you do. Seriously.

brandon
11-30-2008, 10:50 AM
More abortions – 57,000 – were carried out on women aged 20 to 24 than any other age group. However, there were 4,400 on the under-16s.
The risk of developing mental illness is much much higher among the 21-24 age group then the rest of the population. I would love to see the control group they used for this study. I have a feeling they just used the general public as a control.

TrueFreedom
11-30-2008, 10:56 AM
The risk of developing mental illness is much much higher among the 21-24 age group then the rest of the population. I would love to see the control group they used for this study. I have a feeling they just used the general public as a control.


Yeah I get the feeling this "study" was probably a college kids class project in a sophomore methods class.

cheapseats
11-30-2008, 10:59 AM
The very idea that anyone could have remorse over killing their own child is patently absurd.

No, that is not an imaginative leap. But it is important to distinguish between anguish and remorse.

I would like to think that many people in soldiering and law enforcement have felt anguish over killing innocent people along with the guilty. Remorse is another story. That's where you get into what were the CIRCUMSTANCES. If killing those innocent villagers saves a platoon...

Rationalization, like abortion, like complicity in injustice, like gluttony, like faith, is an exercise in Free Will.

What IS patently absurd is one person declaring what another person feels. What is even MORE absurd, just off-the-charts ridiculous, is a man presuming to know the mind and heart of a woman.

paulpwns
11-30-2008, 11:47 AM
How about all these other studies?

Royal college warns abortions can lead to mental illness (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3559486.ece)

Abortion exposes women to higher risk of depression (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article615150.ece)

Study: Abortion increases suicide risk (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47705)

Abortion, Depression, Suicide (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/621005/abortion_depression_suicide.html?cat=2)


Probably because people like you make them feel guilty.

RonPaulMania
12-01-2008, 12:30 PM
A survey of a whole 500 people. I bet I could get some really interesting views with a range of only 500 people on any topic. It's just a way of shaping public opinion to limit the rights of an individual to make a decision about their life, but instead of framing it as protecting the unborn, they are trying to say "oh don't have the abortion bc it can lead to mental illness." The agenda is evident.

Actually genius there are plenty of studies. This is just one more. You should read stories of ex-abortionists who are suicidal and their stories of all the suicidal women after abortions.

Why don't you read and study a bit rather than spit out a bunch of garbage.

Read this and look at the other studies cited:
http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/abortion_and_suicide.asp

The agenda is evident when someone who hates God attacks everyone on this board they disagree with.

RonPaulMania
12-01-2008, 12:31 PM
Probably because people like you make them feel guilty.

Probably because they feel guilty. Probably because you want to make an excuse for a fact, because against a fact there is no argument, so you twist the argument against us to avoid facts.

danberkeley
12-01-2008, 12:43 PM
Probably because people like you make them feel guilty.

Guilty of what?

TrueFreedom
12-01-2008, 12:50 PM
Actually genius there are plenty of studies. This is just one more. You should read stories of ex-abortionists who are suicidal and their stories of all the suicidal women after abortions.

Why don't you read and study a bit rather than spit out a bunch of garbage.

Read this and look at the other studies cited:
http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/abortion_and_suicide.asp

The agenda is evident when someone who hates God attacks everyone on this board they disagree with.

Ah I hate God now. Awesome.

I'm wanting for the comparison to Hitler and then this thread will be complete.

angelatc
12-01-2008, 12:51 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1090535/Mental-illness-risk--8216-rises-30-cent-women-abortions-8217.html

I'm not sure that abortions cause mental illness. I suspect it is the other way around.

TrueFreedom
12-01-2008, 12:53 PM
Probably because they feel guilty. Probably because you want to make an excuse for a fact, because against a fact there is no argument, so you twist the argument against us to avoid facts.

Yeah I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.

I've already presented studies from the APA, which completely indict the flakey sources above, and show that the "link" is shakey at best (the APA board actually deemed that it was nonexistant).

Just because you deem something a "fact" doesn't make it one.....

angelatc
12-01-2008, 12:53 PM
And 70% of those other women live happier lives. So what? It's their lives.

Happier? What's your source on that?

RonPaulMania
12-01-2008, 07:48 PM
Yeah I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.

I've already presented studies from the APA, which completely indict the flakey sources above, and show that the "link" is shakey at best (the APA board actually deemed that it was nonexistant).

Just because you deem something a "fact" doesn't make it one.....

The same APA which says sodomizing children is ok as long as the child consents? I'm 100% positive you are clueless. The APA has been a bastion of overturning responsibility to environmental forces and against personal responsibility for years.

An argument by one group's authority against countless studies is lame at best, sheepish at worst.

pcosmar
12-01-2008, 08:09 PM
Ah I hate God now. Awesome.

I'm wanting for the comparison to Hitler and then this thread will be complete.

Cool. I could help you with that.
How about connections between the Founder of Planed Parenthood and old Adolph.

Ah heck, you can research that yourself if you have any interest in truth.
It is common knowledge and well documented.

pacelli
12-01-2008, 08:24 PM
And to finish off this debate with the hope that such ignorant smut is not tossed around again, here is an article from the NY Times that references a study done by the American Psychological Association that found no link between abortion and mental illness.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/health/research/13brfs-ABORTIONDOES_BRF.html?_r=1

Thanks for posting that, saved me a moment to dig up the reference.

pacelli
12-01-2008, 08:28 PM
The same APA which says sodomizing children is ok as long as the child consents? I'm 100% positive you are clueless. The APA has been a bastion of overturning responsibility to environmental forces and against personal responsibility for years.

An argument by one group's authority against countless studies is lame at best, sheepish at worst.

Please provide a link indicating that the American Psychological Association reports that "sodomizing children is ok as long as the child consents". As a clinical psychologist, I would be VERY interested in seeing a direct APA source on this quote, as I am ethically and legally mandated to file an ethics violation if I am exposed to it. I am unable to find this direct quote. However, I need a direct source from the APA and/or one of it's actual divisions. Since you are making the allegation, I am asking for your help in finding the direct quote.

KenInMontiMN
12-01-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm not sure that abortions cause mental illness. I suspect it is the other way around.

Very good, correlation (if it exists) does not prove causation.

My conclusion is that women who hang around men too much risk greater chance of both pregnancy and mental illness! :D

constituent
12-01-2008, 09:13 PM
masturbation will make you go blind.


in case you didn't know.

















you've been warned.

LibertyEagle
12-01-2008, 09:28 PM
The same APA which says sodomizing children is ok as long as the child consents? I'm 100% positive you are clueless. The APA has been a bastion of overturning responsibility to environmental forces and against personal responsibility for years

Please provide your source.

RickyJ
12-01-2008, 09:45 PM
A girl I know had an abortion, and then she felt so bad about it that she tried to kill herself :eek:

Yeah, many that have abortions regret it. It's the ones that have them and feel no regret that should off themselves, not the ones that are sorry about it.

TrueFreedom
12-01-2008, 10:56 PM
Please provide your source.

He won't provide the source. That's because he can't provide the source. That's because the source doesn't actually exist.

This whole thread has been this way. I effectively ended this debate like three pages back :)

RonPaulMania
12-02-2008, 09:14 AM
He won't provide the source. That's because he can't provide the source. That's because the source doesn't actually exist.

This whole thread has been this way. I effectively ended this debate like three pages back :)

As if I have the time, but to amuse you I did a small search and provided a link, which I know won't change your mind:

http://pedophileophobia.com/disorder.htm

"In a step critics charge could result in decriminalizing sexual contact between adults and children, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants discussed the removal of pedophilia from an upcoming edition of the psychiatric manual of mental disorders.

Some mental health professionals attending an annual APA convention May 19 in San Francisco proposed removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness - including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)."

They sponsored an event to discuss the removal of such things. The APA funded a meeting to get rid of sexual deviancy. Not shut your hole and get an education.

Truth Warrior
12-02-2008, 09:46 AM
I'm not sure that abortions cause mental illness. I suspect it is the other way around. Me too. :( ;)

pacelli
12-02-2008, 10:17 AM
As if I have the time, but to amuse you I did a small search and provided a link, which I know won't change your mind:

http://pedophileophobia.com/disorder.htm

"In a step critics charge could result in decriminalizing sexual contact between adults and children, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants discussed the removal of pedophilia from an upcoming edition of the psychiatric manual of mental disorders.

Some mental health professionals attending an annual APA convention May 19 in San Francisco proposed removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness - including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)."

They sponsored an event to discuss the removal of such things. The APA funded a meeting to get rid of sexual deviancy. Not shut your hole and get an education.

During the convention, the American Psychiatric Association panel discussed not including the above disorders in the upcoming DSM-V (to be published in 2012) because currently individuals convicted of practicing acts of pedophilia are able to avoid prison sentences and claim mental illness in order to do their time in a mental hospital. Research was reviewed regarding prevalence rates, recidivism rates, associated disorders of clinical concern, and treatment efficacy. Differential diagnosis was also discussed.

The American Psychiatric Association is not a law-making body.

The APA never stated, "sodomizing children is ok as long as the child consents".

Full disclosure information on the APA's Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders Work Group, as well as it's members, can be found here:

http://www.psych.org/MainMenu/Research/DSMIV/DSMV/WorkGroups/SexualGID.aspx

lucius
12-02-2008, 10:17 AM
Please provide your source.

LE,

I think it is this one: "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," Psychological Bulletin, 1998, Vol. 124, No. 1, 22-53

The APA did some serious damage control; the outrage was too great.

Ultimately, sex with children will be policy agenda--it promotes control by fracturing their minds. If you wish delve into this very dark subject, look to MK-ULTRA, which is based on ancient occult Monarch Mind Control. Just another negative aspect of the esoteric agenda's march to collectivism.

Utopian Dreams are always psychotic...

acptulsa
12-02-2008, 10:18 AM
Some mental health professionals attending an annual APA convention May 19 in San Francisco proposed removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness - including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)."

They sponsored an event to discuss the removal of such things. The APA funded a meeting to get rid of sexual deviancy. Not shut your hole and get an education.

This isn't saying the same thing as 'sodomizing a child is o.k. if the child consents'. It doesn't even come anywhere close.

This is more of a, 'if you were thinking of using insanity as a defense for any of these behaviors, forget it'.

Meanwhile, back on subject, abortion and mental issues comprise (in my opinion) a chicken-and-egg riddle.

constituent
12-02-2008, 10:24 AM
masturbation will make you go blind.


in case you didn't know.

















you've been warned.




















ok, but don't blame me.

acptulsa
12-02-2008, 10:26 AM
ok, but don't blame me.

Should have heeded your own warning, constituent.

constituent
12-02-2008, 10:30 AM
Should have heeded your own warning, constituent.

good one!

pacelli
12-02-2008, 10:33 AM
LE,

I think it is this one: "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," Psychological Bulletin, 1998, Vol. 124, No. 1, 22-53

The APA did some serious damage control; the outrage was too great.

Ultimately, sex with children will be policy agenda--it promotes control by fracturing their minds. If you wish delve into this very dark subject, look to MK-ULTRA, which is based on ancient occult Monarch Mind Control. Just another negative aspect of the esoteric agenda's march to collectivism.

Utopian Dreams are always psychotic...

http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug99/as4.html

lucius
12-02-2008, 10:34 AM
LE,

I think it is this one: "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," Psychological Bulletin, 1998, Vol. 124, No. 1, 22-53

The APA did some serious damage control; the outrage was too great.

Ultimately, sex with children will be policy agenda--it promotes control by fracturing their minds. If you wish delve into this very dark subject, look to MK-ULTRA, which is based on ancient occult Monarch Mind Control. Just another negative aspect of the esoteric agenda's march to collectivism.

Utopian Dreams are always psychotic...

And so they spun:

American Psychiatric Association
Medical Director Critizes
Other APA'S Publication
of Pedophilia Study

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- In a letter dated May 27, Dr. Steven Mirin, Medical Director for the American Psychiatric Association, criticized the conclusions contained in a study published by the American Psychological Association that suggests sexual relationships between adults and children are not as harmful as once believed. "It is encouraging to see the American Psychiatric Association distance itself from junk science. Children cannot consent to sex and any study that does not accept this premise should be dismissed," Janet Parshall, Family Research Council's Chief Spokerson, said Monday. "The American Psychological Association should wake up and smell the trash it published."

Dr. Mirin's letter to FRC's Senior Director of Cultural Studies Robert Knight thanked FRC for acknowledging pedophilia as a mental disorder. He also expressed the American Psychiatric Association's disagreement "with the implications of the authors' conclusions" contained in the journal article "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," Psychological Bulletin, 1998, Vol. 124, No. 1, 22-53. "From a psychological perspective, sex between adult and child is always abusive and exploitative because the adult always holds the power in the relationship," wrote Dr. Mirin. Therefore, "[a]cademic hair-splitting over whether the act should be considered adult-child sex or child sexual abuse . . is not in the public interest and obfuscates the moral issues involved."

On May 12, Family Research Council joined Dr. Laura Schlessinger and a coalition of Congressmen, child protection advocates, and pedophilia victims to call on the American Psychological Association to renounce the aforementioned study. In response, the American Psychological Association has defended the study's publication.

"Pedophilia has no presentable face," said Parshall. "We should treat it as the ugly demon it is and do everything we can to preserve our children's innocence. Adult-child sex is always reprehensible, always harmful and always forced." Indeed, Dr. Mirin stated that his organization's "strongly held position" is "that sex between adult and child can never be condoned or considered 'normal' behavior."

"The American Psychological Association should realize it stands alone in lending credence to the flawed study on 'adult-child sex' that it foolishly published in its prestigious journal," Parshall concluded.

More:

Innocence Lost?

By Kelly Patricia O'Meara
Insight Magazine
Cover Story, Vol. 15, No. 22, 05/24/99
Excerpts:

Few thought the day would come when sexual abuse of a child might be called "a positive experience." Not long ago it was unimaginable that, in an attempt to bring legitimacy to criminal and immoral sexual acts, the term "child molestation" would be restyled into value-neutral language such as "adult-child sex."

. . . . But the American Psychological Association, or APA, published in July 1998 in its prestigious Psychological Bulletin a study by three professors -- [snip] which basically redefines "child sexual abuse."

Their conclusions further suggest that when negative effects do occur they often are temporary, and that consensual sex between children and adults, and adolescents and children, should be described in more positive terms, such as "adult-child sex" and "adolescent-child sex."

Anthony Falzarano, director of P-Fox, a national organization of homosexuals who are seeking "reparative therapy" and heterosexual orientation, couldn't be more outraged by the study's findings. [snip] "It is utterly incredible to think that a child can 'consent' to sex with an adult. Believe me, there are lasting, harmful effects."

Falzarano is just one of a great many Americans who are expressing shock and anger at the implications of the new APA advocacy.

Republican Rep. Matt Salmon of Arizona, who visibly was angered by the APA's position, said, "It is beyond the realm of possibility that we're even here today talking about this. But what are we to do when we have groups like the APA who don't stand up and say that this is sick and twisted. I don't want to understand pedophiles, I want to put them in prison."

Resolutions of outrage also are being offered in the states. The first of these passed the Alaska state Senate by a 20-0 vote.

On its Website, NAMBLA praises the APA's study as "good news."

Bob Flores, senior counsel for the National Law Center for Children and Families, isn't surprised by NAMBLA's elation. "The report will validate many pedophiles. It will make them think that what they're doing to the child is actually helping them. This isn't brain surgery. Even the village idiot understands what this study is suggesting."

Full news article at -- Insight Magazine

From here: http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/rebuttal.htm#APA

lucius
12-02-2008, 10:37 AM
http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug99/as4.html

I understand, but the vetting process is pretty substantial for medical articles, but not in this case; you wouldn't believe the hoops it takes to get into New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM). I would imagine this is similar.

dannno
12-02-2008, 11:02 AM
The risk of developing mental illness is much much higher among the 21-24 age group then the rest of the population. I would love to see the control group they used for this study. I have a feeling they just used the general public as a control.

Not only that, people who are mentally unstable are more likely to engage in drug use and promiscuous sexual activity. The study should say that "women who have drug problems and mental disorders are more likely to have abortions"

pacelli
12-02-2008, 11:02 AM
I understand, but the vetting process is pretty substantial for medical articles, but not in this case; you wouldn't believe the hoops it takes to get into New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM). I would imagine this is similar.

That's quite true, and the reviewers of the article who approved it's publication fucked up! Biased research is unfortunately one of the problems in any field-- look at Vioxx, Phen-Fen, Thalidomide, etc. That doesn't make it right. I've read the article and see a number of methodological problems aside from the authors injecting opinion.

I don't think the prior & subsequent research conducted on the subject of pedophilia supports the conclusions of the 1998 meta-analysis. The authors of the article clearly injected their own opinions into the literature review and omitted several key studies. I have no idea what the reviewers were thinking, let alone the authors. I seriously doubt that anyone with any experience in dealing with convicted pedophiles would write or approve such an article.

A single study does not represent the entire field of mental health, nor it's practitioners.

lucius
12-02-2008, 11:23 AM
...A single study does not represent the entire field of mental health, nor it's practitioners.

By all means no, but if you do not believe that policy agenda will be encouraging sex with children, you have not been looking hard enough at the vanguard in the European Union. Plus there is already some sordid history with the APA, from 'How America Went Gay' by Charles W. Socarides, M.D.:

"...targeted the members of a worldly priesthood, the psychiatric community, and neutralized them with a radical redefinition of homosexuality itself. In 1972 and 1973 they co-opted the leadership of the American Psychiatric Association and, through a series of political maneuvers, lies and outright flim-flams, they "cured" homosexuality overnight-by fiat. They got the A.P.A. to say that same-sex sex was "not a disorder." It was merely "a condition"-as neutral as lefthandedness.

This amounted to a full approval of homosexuality. Those of us who did not go along with the political redefinition were soon silenced at our own professional meetings. Our lectures were canceled inside academe and our research papers turned down in the learned journals. Worse things followed in the culture at large. Television and movie producers began to do stories promoting homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle. A gay review board told Hollywood how it should deal or not deal with homosexuality. Mainstream publishers turned down books that objected to the gay revolution. Gays and lesbians influenced sex education in our nation's schools, and gay and lesbian libbers seized wide control of faculty committees in our nations' colleges. State legislatures nullified laws against sodomy.

If the print media paid any attention at all, they tended to hail the gay revolution, possibly because many of the reporters on gay issues were themselves gay and open advocates for the movement. And those reporters who were not gay seemed too intimidated by groupthink to expose what was going on in their own newsrooms.

And now, what happens to those of us who stand up and object?"

Charles W. Socarides, M.D., is clinical professor of psychiatry at Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center in New York.

Then this little telling-gem:

Tavistock Institute for Medical Psychology

In Mental Health, vol. 1, no. 4, October 1940, one finds a speech by John Rawlings Rees
(deputy director of the Tavistock Institute for Medical Psychology, begun in
1920) on June 18, 1940, in which he reveals:

"We can therefore justifiably stress our particular point of view with regard
to the proper development of the human psyche, even though our knowledge
be incomplete. We must aim to make it permeate every educational
activity in our national life. . . . Public life, politics, and industry should
all of them be within our sphere of influence. . . . Especially since the last
world war we have done much to infiltrate the various social organizations
throughout the country.... Similarly we have made a useful attack upon a
number of professions.

The two easiest of them naturally are the teaching profession and the
church: the two most difficult are law and medicine.... If we are to infiltrate
the professional and social activities of other people, I think we must
imitate the Totalitarian and organize some kind of fifth column activity! If
better ideas on mental health are to progress and spread we, as the salesmen,
must lose our identity. . . . Let us all, therefore, very secretly be "fifth
columnists." . . . We have often been too spasmodic in our work and I feel
we need a long-term plan of propaganda. . . . I doubt the wisdom of a direct
attack upon the existing state of affairs; even though there is a war on,
that would still raise opposition, whereas the more insidious approach of
suggesting that something better is needed—"why shouldn't we try so and
so"—is more likely to succeed. . . . Many people don't like to be "saved,"
"changed" or made healthy. I have a feeling, however, that "efficiency and
economy" would make rather a good appeal because there are very few people
who would not welcome these two suggestions."

The APA has been infiltrated; not unlike how psychiatry was utilized in the Soviet Union: Bertrand Russell called it using "injunctions".

Not to say that you are part of this.

RonPaulMania
12-02-2008, 02:55 PM
This isn't saying the same thing as 'sodomizing a child is o.k. if the child consents'. It doesn't even come anywhere close.

This is more of a, 'if you were thinking of using insanity as a defense for any of these behaviors, forget it'.

Meanwhile, back on subject, abortion and mental issues comprise (in my opinion) a chicken-and-egg riddle.

Champ, I wasn't finding the original article. I don't have time, but I recommend you study the issue. It's not incumbant upon anyone who points out a problem to prove everything on a casual message board. Here is what you need to know, just about every major agency in this country has been compromised to indecency for the sake of making people slaves to the gov't. The articles provided by Lucius may be sufficient, but from my history in online debating I realize those that promote perversity provide no proofs at all, and those that fight against must "prove" themselves and no answer is sufficient.

The bottom line is anyone who is against what Rand correctly identifies as a "right" (the classical definition) as a moral imperative for the good of society is part of the problem.

If you think a country filled with sexual perversity, whether it be homosexuality or addictions to pornography, or physical perversity can exist in a state of equilibrium is insane. No country can last when the minds of the people have been so eviscerated to logic and ethics as a non-issue then the country is over. People today love debating without debating logically or honestly.

That's our future, and the reason why this "movement" will never be anything more than tools of the establishment who believe they are promoting liberty when in fact they promote slavery to immorality, which is the anti-thesis of "rights".

acptulsa
12-02-2008, 03:05 PM
That's our future, and the reason why this "movement" will never be anything more than tools of the establishment who believe they are promoting liberty when in fact they promote slavery to immorality, which is the antithesis of "rights".

Well, that is a point. The Founding Fathers themselves said that in order for a republic to work, the populace must be moral. And, yes, there has been a big shift in the morality of this nation--and, interestingly enough, the tax code has been a big part of it. I remember when moral people wouldn't cheat on their taxes, and other people (who basically were moral people) laughed at them for not being willing to cheat the obvious cheaters. One could understand both sides. So, yes, I basically agree with you that this is going on and it isn't helpful to the cause of liberty.

That said, times do change as well. The invention of birth control, for example, made it possible for people to enjoy life a little more without taking on added responsibility they might not want. Call it immoral if you wish, but we've adapted to it so it's a fact of life now. And not all such change is immoral. The end of slavery was not immoral.

"One might as well expect a man to wear the same suit of clothes that fit him as a boy as to expect a people to live under the laws of their barbarous ancestors."--Thomas Jefferson.

lucius
12-02-2008, 03:17 PM
Well, that is a point. The Founding Fathers themselves said that in order for a republic to work, the populace must be moral. And, yes, there has been a big shift in the morality of this nation--and, interestingly enough, the tax code has been a big part of it. I remember when moral people wouldn't cheat on their taxes, and other people (who basically were moral people) laughed at them for not being willing to cheat the obvious cheaters. One could understand both sides. So, yes, I basically agree with you that this is going on and it isn't helpful to the cause of liberty.

That said, times do change as well. The invention of birth control, for example, made it possible for people to enjoy life a little more without taking on added responsibility they might not want. Call it immoral if you wish, but we've adapted to it so it's a fact of life now. And not all such change is immoral. The end of slavery was not immoral.

"One might as well expect a man to wear the same suit of clothes that fit him as a boy as to expect a people to live under the laws of their barbarous ancestors."--Thomas Jefferson.

Very well put. Brings to mind a W. Durant quote:

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."

This is SOP for the cryptocracy.

The_Orlonater
12-02-2008, 07:12 PM
Prevent unwanted pregnancies!

It's the grown up way and thing to do.<IMHO> ;)

True, but many of you don't realize that it will still happen. It can happen on accident too.

Smiley Gladhands
12-02-2008, 09:04 PM
True, but many of you don't realize that it will still happen. It can happen on accident too.

There's always sodomy.

I'm just sayin'...

TrueFreedom
12-02-2008, 10:54 PM
As if I have the time, but to amuse you I did a small search and provided a link, which I know won't change your mind:

http://pedophileophobia.com/disorder.htm

"In a step critics charge could result in decriminalizing sexual contact between adults and children, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants discussed the removal of pedophilia from an upcoming edition of the psychiatric manual of mental disorders.

Some mental health professionals attending an annual APA convention May 19 in San Francisco proposed removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness - including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)."

They sponsored an event to discuss the removal of such things. The APA funded a meeting to get rid of sexual deviancy. Not shut your hole and get an education.


Ouch, this really hurts my case. I mean how can I argue with such a well known, well respected site of academic knowledge like www.pedophileophobia.com:rolleyes: