PDA

View Full Version : Libertarian Socialists




Nate K
11-29-2008, 10:11 AM
Do we have any?

Interesting concept I've been reading about.. still learning.

What is your opinion of them?

heavenlyboy34
11-29-2008, 10:34 AM
Never heard of such people. Examples, please? :confused:

travisAlbert
11-29-2008, 10:54 AM
The closest examples to a libertarian socialist society that I can think of are the Paris Commune which was brutally slaughtered, and the CNT in the Spanish Civil War, which was also brutally slaughtered by Franco.

basically, they tried to set up a system of consensus. Also, in the case of the Anarchists in the Spanish Civil War, the factories that they worked in were ran by the workers. There were no bosses.

danberkeley
11-29-2008, 11:08 AM
I am supposing that these are libertarians who volutanrily enter into a socialist society/community/whatever. But don't be fooled. When we compare libertarianism to socialism, we imply a coercive form of socialism as implemented by the state.

Conza88
11-29-2008, 11:29 AM
Chomsky is one... I am sure :confused:

Economic illiterates. Have no idea what they are on about :|

slothman
11-29-2008, 01:01 PM
I'm one of those.
I'm half and half
I'm libertarian in that I don't want many things illegal like guns but I'm socialist in that I want "wealth distibution".

Truth Warrior
11-29-2008, 01:04 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libertarian (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libertarian)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialist)


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron)

danberkeley
11-29-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm one of those.
I'm half and half
I'm libertarian in that I don't want many things illegal like guns but I'm socialist in that I want "wealth distibution".

Coercive or non coercive "wealth distribution"?

Grimnir Wotansvolk
11-29-2008, 01:11 PM
The notion that land can actually be owned doesn't sit well with me, but the Final Arbiter is even worse

heavenlyboy34
11-29-2008, 01:18 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libertarian (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libertarian)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialist)


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron)

lol!;)

danberkeley
11-29-2008, 01:54 PM
The notion that land can actually be owned doesn't sit well with me, but the Final Arbiter is even worse

Why does it not sit well with you?

slothman
11-29-2008, 03:05 PM
Coercive or non coercive "wealth distribution"?

If by coercive you mean taxes and welfare then coercive.

danberkeley
11-29-2008, 03:11 PM
If by coercive you mean taxes and welfare then coercive.

That is very un-libertarian of you.

Paulitician
11-29-2008, 06:14 PM
I'm down with libertarian socialism that mutualists and certain individualists advocate.

Check out this blog if you want to learn more: http://mutualist.blogspot.com/

Nate K
11-29-2008, 10:25 PM
I have a bunch of questions for those who advocate it.. Only a few I'm remembering right now..

If in a libertarian socialist society, labor was what prosperity was based on.. that is assuming the conditions are perfect for everyone to be a laborer, correct? I mean for instance, when you invent something that benefits society, do you consider that labor?

I just want to know how innovations would work.

Second, what about the disabled or those who cannot perform physical labor? Is every member getting a "share" of the total goods society has to offer? If this is so then what have you to say of the socialist thanksgiving story?

mediahasyou
11-30-2008, 10:56 AM
Ask Kade.

sailor
11-30-2008, 04:13 PM
I'm one of those.
I'm half and half
I'm libertarian in that I don't want many things illegal like guns but I'm socialist in that I want "wealth distibution".

You do not need to be a socialist to be in favour of wealth distribution. A Libertarian does argue for redistribution of wrongfuly begotten wealth back to ordinary folk. For example somebody who gained wealth on the account of a government monopoly would have to give it back. Or for example Rothbard argues that rightfuly the slaves when they were fred should had been given the land of the plantationists being its rightful owners.

There has actuly been alot written about this entitlement theory by Libertarians, I think the trend was started by Nock. Look around for it if you are interested.


So you only need to consider yourself a socialist if you belive in redistribution of wealth earned under free market conditions. Say if you want to robb an overachiving farmer or the Wal Mart and so on.


If by coercive you mean taxes and welfare then coercive.

OK, that is just plain wrong though.

sailor
11-30-2008, 05:05 PM
Do we have any?

Interesting concept I've been reading about.. still learning.

What is your opinion of them?

Seems pretty boring and not very relevant to me to be honest.

Historicaly there have been anti-statist agrarian socialists in 19th century Russia that would fit the "Libertarian Socialist" label and they were not without merit, but conditions then and there were feudal and it was a country without much of a Liberal tradition so it was a different situation and makes it easier to forgive them their ideological mistakes. Far less excuses nowdays.

werdd
12-01-2008, 06:34 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libertarian (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libertarian)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialist)


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oxymoron)

perfect.

Truth Warrior
12-01-2008, 07:00 AM
perfect.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect) ;) :D

Nah, not me or mine, just a humble warrior.

Thanks! :)

Pennsylvania
12-01-2008, 07:06 AM
The notion that land can actually be owned doesn't sit well with me

same

Danke
12-01-2008, 07:26 AM
You do not need to be a socialist to be in favour of wealth distribution. A Libertarian does argue for redistribution of wrongfuly begotten wealth back to ordinary folk. For example somebody who gained wealth on the account of a government monopoly would have to give it back.


That is part of the reasoning behind the income tax. Just now, it is commonly misunderstood to apply to most of our ordinary receipts. (which it doesn't).

lodge939
12-01-2008, 07:39 AM
I have met people who claim to be libertarian but then support massive government projects on education and "green energy" and the like. basically, statist liberals jumping on the bandwagon.

Truth Warrior
12-01-2008, 07:49 AM
I have met people who claim to be libertarian but then support massive government projects on education and "green energy" and the like. basically, statist liberals jumping on the bandwagon. I think it's just intentional planned and calculated libertarian message distortion, dilution and confusion. Kinda like the LP oxymoron. :p

heavenlyboy34
12-01-2008, 08:33 AM
i think it's just intentional planned and calculated libertarian message distortion, dilution and confusion. Kinda like the lp oxymoron. :p

+99999