Can we really "fix" this country before the shtf?

[RCA]

If there's one thing that I've learned over the past 3 years is that most of the people in this country are beyond hope. Quite frankly, they're hardly human anymore, more like living zombies being pleased by tv, sex or sports or all 3 at the same time. I will continue "spreading the message" but I think the last possible time for the country to "be fixed" was the 1964 presidential election. Since then, we've been on a 45 degree incline down towards communism.

[eric_cartman]

no... we can't fix it before the shtf. but after the shtf... we have an opportunity to go back to the constitution rather than bigger government.

[Truth Warrior]

Nope! :(

[JohnMeridith]

Nope! :(
this

[RCA]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!"

[lynnf]

If there's one thing that I've learned over the past 3 years is that most of the people in this country are beyond hope. Quite frankly, they're hardly human anymore, more like living zombies being pleased by tv, sex or sports or all 3 at the same time. I will continue "spreading the message" but I think the last possible time for the country to "be fixed" was the 1964 presidential election. Since then, we've been on a 45 degree incline down towards communism.

it will take a 2x4 up the side of the head to wake many up, and that is the shtf or at least part of it.

lynn

[BeFranklin]

With God all things are possible.

[eric_cartman]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!"

we can say "see, told ya!" ... but then hopefully people will listen to us in the future and the people will elect a Ron Paul type candidate to fix the problems.

[Truth Warrior]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!" Like most things, it probably just varies from person to person.< IMHO > ;) :)

[lynnf]

With God all things are possible.


yes, but the Temple was still destroyed twice (or 3 if you count Jesus),

the Jews were still carted off to Babylon, or Diasporized,
or holocausted.

being realistic, not pessimistic.

lynn

[Michigan11]

No we can't fix it, the shit is already hitting the fan and soon the fan will stop.

But we are bolstering the spirits of fellow freedom fighters, by letting all know we exist and we don't plan on taking any shit once the fan stops. We are essentially prepping to take back our government when it is time to do so. That is my view of it.

[Truth Warrior]

With God all things are possible. With God and a FRN you can get a can of pop.

[Nate K]

it's hard to do it before it hits.. that's the point - we're most effective while the shit is hitting the fan.

[ShowMeLiberty]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!"

It's not futile because we may still awaken some who are less asleep than others.

I don't see the country as a whole being "fixable". It's like a used car that has reached the point where the cost of repair is greater than the cost of replacement. But there are still salvageable parts of the car that we will want and need someday so it is worth the effort to keep those parts before junking the car.

[JohnMeridith]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!"
I would venture to guess most of us are doing what we are doing because of our morals. The "I told you so's" are just a bonus.

[pacelli]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!"

Saying "see, told ya!" once the SHTF will be a dangerous act. I'd say the best anyone can do is to plant seeds and let them either grow or die on their own.

[Tatsit]

I would venture to guess most of us are doing what we are doing because of our morals. The "I told you so's" are just a bonus.


I agree with you;


I feel it is way to late to fix this before the shit has totally hits the fan, however like you said most of us are children of the 80's or older - we grew up in different times. We grew up learning about history and was taught history; the good, the bad, and the ugly truthes of it.

Our Grandparents and parents fought in WWII, and was taught first hand what that really means, and what it means to really be an American. This is why we are here.

It's not so much that it will be the I told you so but more as we will be the beacon of light to guide the rest through the muck.

[thehighwaymanq]

We can't fix it, but possibly we could stir up enough angry people to start the second Revolution.

Once that happens, our country full of followers might begin to slowly turn around...

[BeFranklin]

With God and a FRN you can get a can of pop.

Let your words mark which side of this fight you are on :)

[lynnf]

We can't fix it, but possibly we could stir up enough angry people to start the second Revolution.

Once that happens, our country full of followers might begin to slowly turn around...


problem is, most will want to change the Constitution, which will be worse than just a Constitutional Convention a few years back -- and we'll probably end up in almost as bad shape.

lynn

[LibertyEagle]

If there's one thing that I've learned over the past 3 years is that most of the people in this country are beyond hope. Quite frankly, they're hardly human anymore, more like living zombies being pleased by tv, sex or sports or all 3 at the same time. I will continue "spreading the message" but I think the last possible time for the country to "be fixed" was the 1964 presidential election. Since then, we've been on a 45 degree incline down towards communism.

No, we probably won't be able to "fix" the whole country in time. BUT, the inroads we make at the local and state levels are going to benefit us GREATLY when the proverbial s*** does hit. The further we can get, the better. Imagine a police chief that does not go along with some national dictate. Imagine mayors and state reps doing that too. Imagine people in your local areas, more prepared than they are now and at least a little wiser from the seeds you have planted. Some will be more prepared; others might at least know what kind of government we do not want when and if we have a chance to begin anew.

What we are doing is not for naught. And approaching this from the ground floor up makes all the sense in the world. Regardless of how far we get, it will be extremely helpful.

[LibertyEagle]

problem is, most will want to change the Constitution, which will be worse than just a Constitutional Convention a few years back -- and we'll probably end up in almost as bad shape.

lynn

I don't know. The second a Constitutional Convention convenes, the current Constitution is null and void. If you think the 1st 10 amendments are being ignored NOW, well, wait until they're totally GONE.

The bad guys have been trying to get a Constitutional Convention convened for YEARS.

I agree with you though... "angry" isn't enough. "Angry" also facilitated the Bolshevik Revolution and also brought Castro to power. None for me, thanks.

[moostraks]

I would venture to guess most of us are doing what we are doing because of our morals. The "I told you so's" are just a bonus.

:D

[Truth Warrior]

Let your words mark which side of this fight you are on :)
I'm still just on the "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" side since even long before signing up for the RPF.

Your God is too small.<IMHO> ;) :) I'll bet that I like Jesus more than you do. :D

[Athan]

People are only STARTING to wake up. So no. Focus on prepping yourselves and getting some shtf plans made with fellow Ron Paul supporters.

[Original_Intent]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!"

I think we are making the effort so there is enough of us that we have a chance after tshtf.

[Pericles]

I don't know. The second a Constitutional Convention convenes, the current Constitution is null and void. If you think the 1st 10 amendments are being ignored NOW, well, wait until they're totally GONE.

The bad guys have been trying to get a Constitutional Convention convened for YEARS.

I agree with you though... "angry" isn't enough. "Angry" also facilitated the Bolshevik Revolution and also brought Castro to power. None for me, thanks.

In my mind, it is getting the current Constitution enforced. We won't need a new one - just use the one we have. The scrap heap of history is littered with useful constitutions, placed there through lack of enforcement mechanisms and the lack of action by the citizens to preserve them.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

It is precisely due to the fact that it cannot be fixed that TS will HTF.

I do feel it is very important to keep ourselves working towards and living what we believe in and know to be right.

[Truth Warrior]

it is precisely due to the fact that it cannot be fixed that ts will htf.

I do feel it is very important to keep ourselves working towards and living what we believe in and know to be right.

Qft!

[Agent CSL]

So, is our effort futile until the shtf? Or, are we making the effort now so we can say "see, told ya!"
Make the effort quietly, continue to build your knowledge and your reserves. Create friends within and without the system. Most people don't know what's about to hit them and the only way for them to realize it is to just let it happen. When they realize the last 100 years of history has all been manufactured to suit the needs of a few men, they will be angry. The civil unrest that follows will be massive. Channel that unrest to our views, give the public the knowledge and ideas to do our work for us.

I never reveal myself until I'm summoned.

[BeFranklin]

I'm still just on the "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity" side since even long before signing up for the RPF.

Your God is too small.<IMHO> ;) :) I'll bet that I like Jesus more than you do. :D

Hardly. God will win this fight, and the opinions of most of you matter not at all. I am not groveling for numbers, and hence don't care much when some of you show yourselves to be snakes, other than to note the fact.

Case in point, I'm not concerned one wit with numbers of people that agree or not with a subset of the freedom ideal, and hence I'm not compromising one bit. If left in the hands of men, there is nothing that can be done. The nation will be saved by God to his glory alone. The destruction coming from every direction seems pretty evident.

[2young2vote]

we can say "see, told ya!" ... but then hopefully people will listen to us in the future and the people will elect a Ron Paul type candidate to fix the problems.

But they won't ever do that...by then most people will be brain washed into thinking that they are happy without their freedoms...Why should they vote for a "Pro-Freedom" candidate if they don't need freedom?

[Theocrat]

Hardly. God will win this fight, and the opinions of most of you matter not at all. I am not groveling for numbers, and hence don't care much when some of you show yourselves to be snakes, other than to note the fact.

Case in point, I'm not concerned one wit with numbers of people that agree or not with a subset of the freedom ideal, and hence I'm not compromising one bit. If left in the hands of men, there is nothing that can be done. The nation will be saved by God to his glory alone. The destruction coming from every direction seems pretty evident.

That is why our "movement" will fail. Like most failing institutions in our society, when God is removed, it collapses to its own folly and destruction. Sadly, most of the Ron Paul supporters on here fail to see that, as well. They would do well to heed Congressman Paul's own words about the effects of secularism upon our society, as viewed here (http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=337).

We complain about "shit hitting the fan," yet some of the execrement comes at the hands of many in this very "movement" by their own libertine ways and disrespect towards the God Who gives us our rights and blesses us with all things, including life, liberty, and property. Our country deserves whatever it gets. Thank God He always preserves a remnant, though. :)

[nate895]

That is why our "movement" will fail. Like most failing institutions in our society, when God is removed, it collapses to its own folly and destruction. Sadly, most of the Ron Paul supporters on here fail to see that, as well. They would do well to heed Congressman Paul's own words about the effects of secularism upon our society, as viewed here (http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=337).

We complain about "shit hitting the fan," yet some of the execrement comes at the hands of many in this very "movement" by their own libertine ways and disrespect towards the God Who gives us our rights and blesses us with all things, including life, liberty, and property. Our country deserves whatever it gets. Thank God He always preserves a remnant, though. :)

I like that article by Dr. Paul.

[Truth Warrior]

Hardly. God will win this fight, and the opinions of most of you matter not at all. I am not groveling for numbers, and hence don't care much when some of you show yourselves to be snakes, other than to note the fact.

Case in point, I'm not concerned one wit with numbers of people that agree or not with a subset of the freedom ideal, and hence I'm not compromising one bit. If left in the hands of men, there is nothing that can be done. The nation will be saved by God to his glory alone. The destruction coming from every direction seems pretty evident. Then just stick with your Roman Empire created religion ABOUT Jesus. Maybe Zeus and crew will jump in and help out to save the world also. :D

WWJD?

[heavenlyboy34]

Then just stick with your Roman Empire created religion ABOUT Jesus. Maybe Zeus and crew will jump in and help out to save the world also. :D

WWJD?


Well said! :)

[Truth Warrior]

That is why our "movement" will fail. Like most failing institutions in our society, when God is removed, it collapses to its own folly and destruction. Sadly, most of the Ron Paul supporters on here fail to see that, as well. They would do well to heed Congressman Paul's own words about the effects of secularism upon our society, as viewed here (http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=337).

We complain about "shit hitting the fan," yet some of the execrement comes at the hands of many in this very "movement" by their own libertine ways and disrespect towards the God Who gives us our rights and blesses us with all things, including life, liberty, and property. Our country deserves whatever it gets. Thank God He always preserves a remnant, though. :)

"The World's Most Dangerous Book" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=158914)

[Theocrat]

"The World's Most Dangerous Book" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=158914)

I'm sorry, but Alan Watts is not the final authority on what the Bible is. God is, and He grants its understanding and teachings by His Holy Spirit to those who love Him and follow Him in truth and sincerity of heart, not the whims of a mediocre "scholar" whose presuppositions about a sacred text are less than favorable.

[Truth Warrior]

I'm sorry, but Alan Watts is not the final authority on what the Bible is. God is, and He grants its understanding and teachings by His Holy Spirit to those who love Him and follow Him in truth and sincerity of heart, not the whims of a mediocre "scholar" whose presuppositions about a sacred text are less than favorable. Are YOU "the final authority on what the Bible is. God is, and He grants its understanding and teachings by His Holy Spirit to those who love Him and follow Him in truth and sincerity of heart"? :confused: How about the Pope?

Just curious. :)

[Andrew-Austin]

If left in the hands of men, there is nothing that can be done. The nation will be saved by God to his glory alone.



Alert me when God starts shining down from the heavens to save us, or at least save the few worthy. Alert this forum when God's hand starts to "reach down from the heavens" as a corrective. Please I beg of you, when you turn out to be right I want you to say "Hah! I told you so! God was just punishing the present atheist pagan society and he hath saved us few Christians of x stripe."




The destruction coming from every direction seems pretty evident.

The destruction the NWO elite carry out is proof of what?




I'm sorry, but Alan Watts is not the final authority on what the Bible is. God is, and He grants its understanding and teachings by His Holy Spirit to those who love Him and follow Him in truth and sincerity of heart, not the whims of a mediocre "scholar" whose presuppositions about a sacred text are less than favorable.

You are basically the final authority on everything, our representative ordained from God! Hot damn why didn't you just tell us before. :confused:

Go ahead Theo, from this point on I grant you my sanction to set up everything in our society as you see fit. Your view is in accordance to God's will, since you dearly love God more so than anyone else on this forum. We need a divinely sanctioned elite, instead of the present atheist elite.

[Truth Warrior]

It's all very clearly explained in Romans 13, v 1 - 7.<IMVHO> ;)

[Theocrat]

Are YOU "the final authority on what the Bible is. God is, and He grants its understanding and teachings by His Holy Spirit to those who love Him and follow Him in truth and sincerity of heart"? :confused: How about the Pope?

Just curious. :)

Of course I'm not the final authority, and neither is the Pope. As I've stated before, God is the ultimate authority on Who He Himself is, what His word declares, and what His purposes are for His creation. You have to let the Bible speak on its own authority, and one must come to the Bible without the controlling assumption that human reason is the only way to judge the Scriptures on its own merits.

It's apparent that Alan Watts doesn't even begin to deal philosophically with his own "religious baggage" that he brings to the discussion on the greatest Book in the history of mankind. Therefore, it would not be wise to trust much of what he says on the subject, especially since he does not cite any faithful theologians and Biblical scholars in his article. He just gives his own opinion.

Now, back to the "regularly scheduled program."

[Truth Warrior]

Of course I'm not the final authority, and neither is the Pope. As I've stated before, God is the ultimate authority on Who He Himself is, what His word declares, and what His purposes are for His creation. You have to let the Bible speak on its own authority, and one must come to the Bible without the controlling assumption that human reason is the only way to judge the Scriptures on its own merits.

It's apparent that Alan Watts doesn't even begin to deal philosophically with his own "religious baggage" that he brings to the discussion on the greatest Book in the history of mankind. Therefore, it would not be wise to trust much of what he says on the subject, especially since he does not cite any faithful theologians and Biblical scholars in his article. He just gives his own opinion.

Now, back to the "regularly scheduled program." Don't even want to touch Romans 13, I see AGAIN? NO surprise there. :( :rolleyes: I wouldn't either if I were you. ;)

"It doesn't seem to me that this fantastically marvelous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions, and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil — which is the view that religion has. The stage is too big for the drama."
(1959), quoted by James Gleick in Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman (1992)

[Andrew-Austin]

I'm sorry, but Alan Watts is not the final authority on what the Bible is. God is, and He grants its understanding and teachings by His Holy Spirit to those who love Him and follow Him in truth and sincerity of heart, not the whims of a mediocre "scholar" whose presuppositions about a sacred text are less than favorable.


Of course I'm not the final authority, and neither is the Pope. As I've stated before, God is the ultimate authority on Who He Himself is, what His word declares, and what His purposes are for His creation. You have to let the Bible speak on its own authority, and one must come to the Bible without the controlling assumption that human reason is the only way to judge the Scriptures on its own merits.


Why do you even bother giving your interpretation of the bible so arrogantly? And in other matters which the bible says little about, such as systems of government?

I'll try and answer that. Because if we are in any way to organize society around the bible (God's alleged will), then we would like to do so accurately. There are unquestionably many views on the bible and God's alleged intentions. Therefor what should our yard stick be for determining who has the greatest understanding of God's will? How do we discover people like yourself who have been granted such divine insights (you do after all, maintain that you at least understand God's will more than others) do to your exceptional love of God? Reason having little to do with ascertaining God's will, what mystic quality allows you to more fully understand the bible in comparison to Alan Watts?

[Truth Warrior]

Religion and politics are both the very same thing. They are both only, very old and very effective, means to control large masses of people. It has always only been that way, and it always only will be.

The ends do NOT justify the means.

[ninepointfive]

I think you all need to focus on your similarities, and not your differences! :mad:

How else can you divide our movement? By pitting the religious vs the non! :(

Its really obvious we need to stay on track, and work towards our goals. I believe many of us have similar morals in the end, so it really all just evens out!:cool:

[AbolishTheGovt]

I don't know if we can.

I do know I'm going to do my part, though.