Storable Food Advice Thread

[RedStripe]

I'm thinking about purchasing a food supply plan from www.efoodsdirect.com. Can anyone verify the quality of their products, or recommend other storable food distributors that I should investigate?

A year ago I would have never thought that I would be one of "those crazy people" who buys storable food en mass and prepares for a total breakdown of the economic system... but here i am :D

So beyond my original inquiry, feel free to post other questions or comments regarding long-term survival food storage plans or tactics.

[enjerth]

Crazy people survive. "Normal" people are sheep for the slaughter.

But no. I haven't purchased from them and I can't recommend another place to purchase emergency food. My plans are based on a much cheaper source, since I live in Nebraska. I'm buying grain from a local grain elevator and packing it myself. Price per bushel of wheat (60 pounds) is between $7-8 right now.

[RedStripe]

Crazy people survive. "Normal" people are sheep for the slaughter.

But no. I haven't purchased from them and I can't recommend another place to purchase emergency food. My plans are based on a much cheaper source, since I live in Nebraska. I'm buying grain from a local grain elevator and packing it myself. Price per bushel of wheat (60 pounds) is between $7-8 right now.

That sounds like a good plan. I am thinking about looking around locally for some food supplies, but I'm not sure if I would be able to find a source of cheap, long term storable fruits, veggies, and meats. If I come across any good options I will post them here.

[dannno]

Costco has 50 lb bags of rice for $20

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/a/4/a/a4aaf3a3063634b0cb2d76e43de1b250.jpg

[roho76]

Costco has 50 lb bags of rice for $20

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/a/4/a/a4aaf3a3063634b0cb2d76e43de1b250.jpg

I got 5 bags and counting myself. I hate WalMart (my kids always get sick when we shop there) but when they have sales on certain canned goods I will raid them. I recommend watching sales on these and other long term storage stuff. Most dry goods like mac and cheese should last at least a year or so.

Does anyone know how much rice I should have on hand for 2 adults and 3 small children under 7?

[enjerth]

I got 5 bags and counting myself. I hate WalMart (my kids always get sick when we shop there) but when they have sales on certain canned goods I will raid them. I recommend watching sales on these and other long term storage stuff. Most dry goods like mac and cheese should last at least a year or so.

Does anyone know how much rice I should have on hand for 2 adults and 3 small children under 7?

As a family, we go through about 1.5 cups of rice per day, eating rice with every meal, 2 adults and 1 child (2 years old). I would suggest 1/2 cup per adult per meal if eating rice alone. That may be a bit high, particularly if you have other foods or you're rationing. At around 150 cups per bushel (45 pounds for rice) a 50 pound bag would last 1 adult around 120 days, I estimate.

Then the question is, to have on hand for how long? 1 year? 3 years? Do you want to buffer your stock for spoilage or other contaminating factors?

[LibertyEagle]

I'm thinking about purchasing a food supply plan from www.efoodsdirect.com. Can anyone verify the quality of their products, or recommend other storable food distributors that I should investigate?

A year ago I would have never thought that I would be one of "those crazy people" who buys storable food en mass and prepares for a total breakdown of the economic system... but here i am :D

So beyond my original inquiry, feel free to post other questions or comments regarding long-term survival food storage plans or tactics.

You may want to check into the following:
http://www.aa-foods.com/
http://www.nitro-pak.com/index.php?cPath=147_58_245

[tmosley]

Get a good grain mill, and you can get wheat berries that store more or less indefinitely (20+ years). You can grind your own flour for bread.

Variety is key. If you just have rice, or just have beans or just have whatever else, things are going to get real dull real fast.

I would suggest you make friends with any farmers you have in the area, and learn how to process and can food. If you are friends with farmers, you can make arrangements with them to get free food in exchange for processing some amount of food for them for storage. We got enough to last a whole year done in just a month of work, with lots of variety just from one farm.

You can not just survive, but prosper in this kind of environment by networking. Know everyone that makes stuff. Know HOW to make stuff. You'll be able to get finders fees in a lot of situations as well.

[psywarrior13]

Or if you have a place to plant a garden.

http://www.survivalistseeds.com/Home_Page.html

[tangent4ronpaul]

Food Storage FAQ:
http://www.captaindaves.com/foodfaq/

TX: Internet Grocer: (good on canned meats, butter, cheese, etc.)
http://www.internet-grocer.net/

UT: Emergency Essentials (check out water storage, superpails, etc. Note that shipping is a flat $6 per order, but if you get superpails - these are nitrogen packed - you must buy a minimum of 200 pounds. They have monthly specials).
http://beprepared.com/

ID: Walton Feed (backed up - 8 week lead time on orders)
http://www.waltonfeed.com/

UT: Honeyville Grain
http://honeyvillegrain.com/

About food grade buckets:
http://preparingutah.com/2008/05/howto-acquiring-food-storage-buckets/

Buying food storage locally (this article lists additional suppliers)
http://preparetodaynewsletter.blogspot.com/2008/07/buying-storage-food-locally.html

OK, lets talk about local acquisition of food storage:

First, you can follow sales at grocery stores or go to membership places like COSTCO - the problem here is that the shelf life isn't great. Still, picking up a case at a time can save a lot of money - then just "Store what you eat and eat what you store" - you need to do that anyway, as a sudden diet change will not be great for your health - especially if you are already stressed out.

Some restaurant supply houses will sell directory to the public. They will be listed in the business pages (different than the yellow pages). You can get a copy of the business pages by calling your phone company and asking for a copy. Some libraries may have it also. Another source would be searching via google.

Next there are Food Co-ops where you can order in bulk. Some larger natural food stores will also sell in bulk or let you put in special orders. Find a food coop near you here:
http://www.coopdirectory.org/
http://www.localharvest.org/food-coops/
http://www.cooperativegrocer.coop/coops/

For honey, find your local beekeepers association and ask to be put in touch with beekeepers. They will sell direct, generally in 30 or 60 gallon drums.

The Mormon church maintains canneries all over the country and if you approach them, they will often let you use them. You pay actual cost, and do the canning yourself - they will show you how. One tip, however - if you have so much as the cent of a cigarette on your clothing - you will be instantly persona non grata there!

If you have Mennonite or Amish communities near by, they generally have small stores where you can buy bulk grain.

Some farmers will sell direct - you just have to find them. Ask around at farmers markets. You may find a beekeeper this way too.

Finally - Farm, Ranch and Feed stores have grains for animal food. It's the same thing as human food with one important exception - you have to inspect it carefully for small rocks! ditto with buying direct from a farmer. You should also ask about pesticides whenever you buy direct.

as an after thought, don't forget about pet food and litter (if cats).

and if you need AK chow, try here (shipping included - generally 10% off listed prices if you pick up in person - lower NJ)
http://ammoman.com

OK, so you've got hundreds of pounds of grain - how do you pack it for long term storage? Get FOOD GRADE 5 gallon buckets and lids (with the o-ring) and either dry ice from an ice cream store or a CO2 tank and a hose from an industrial gas company. You can also buy dry ice makers that fit on the CO2 tank from science supply houses. place half a pound to a pound of dry ice on the bottom of the bucket and cover with paper towels - then add grain and place the lid on top without hammering it down. Wait... when a match goes out when you lower it just below the rim in the bucket, it's ready to be sealed. A rubber mallet is ideal, a hammer will do. There are special tools to get the lids off that are well worth the couple of bucks they cost. You're done!

As to how much of what to store, there are a couple of software programs that will help you. The first one is free:
http://www.thefoodguys.com/freesoftware.htm

The second one is $40 - but you can download a demo version and see if you like it.
http://www.revelar.com/

You will also need a book or three on cooking with survival/basic foods - it's a lot different than cooking with grocery store stuff. The various suppliers have these.

One good book is "The Mix a Meal Cookbook" that tells you how to make your own mixes from basic ingredients:
http://www.mixameal.com/

OK, so much for grains - one thing you will absolutely need is green veggies in your diet. The easiest way to get them is via sprouts. Emergency Essentials sells sprouting kits and bulk sprout seeds or you can pick up the seeds at health food stores and use a canning jar and either window screen or cheese cloth over the top. Twice a day rinse them with water, let drain and prop up and place propped up somehow with the opening (screen, etc) so it gets some ventilation in a window sill. Takes about a week, so have multiple jars going at once with different start days.

After that, get into gardening and ONLY USE HEIRLOOM SEEDS! - they hybrid stuff won't give you viable seeds for next year! Look into deep bed gardening and composting.

After that, you can build or buy a dehydrator and dry then vacuum pack or store like grain all sorts of things for more variety in your diet. banana slices, tomato's and so on as well as fruit rolls.

You will need a couple of other things that are really basic! The first is a water purifier and extra filters. You might also want to store water. See Emergency Essentials for some solutions, though other places sell containers too. The boxed kits look like the best deal. Access to water, be it a stream, rain barrel or whatever is a very big thing! You will go through more than you expect. it is possible to distill water by inverting a pot lid over a pot with water and suspending a coffee cup so condensed water drips down the lid and handle into the cup. suspend with a coat hanger. Boil. Bleach can be used to sterilize water but clorox only lasts about a year. HTH pool sanitizer lasts a lot longer. Iodine will also work, half of one of the prep pads will do 1 qt of water.

You will need a grain grinder and get the best one you can afford along with spare parts. It's really a key item.

The various suppliers sell toilet seats that fit on a bucket - get some slaked lime to keep the odor down and buy a case of TP.

now we come to a rather difficult area - fuel! You can only store so much and should use a stabilizer if you store gasoline or it will break down. Wood is the only dependable reusable, but remember that it has to cure for a year before you should use it. Cooking on a wood stove is a LOT different than cooking on a modern stove. Get used to it now, not when you need it. Cooking over a open fire also has it's own learning curve but root crops wrapped in foil and stuck in ashes/embers cook in about an hour (re-use the foil) and cooking can also happen in a billy can - that is a tin can that has been put on a fire empty to burn out all the plastic as this is bad for you. It will last a while. You ideally want cast iron cookware. Solar ovens are also a possibility - if the sun is out. In olden days everyone gathered and slept in one small room with the fireplace. Conserving heat and minimizing fuel use is REALLY important!

bandages, sanitary pads and diapers will once again need to be made of cloth.

a hand operated washing machine can be made of a 5 gal bucket and a toilet plunger. Cut a hole in the center of the bucket lid. if near a stream, tie knots on arms legs of clothing and add rocks and toss in stream. There are other methods, but we are getting too far off topic.

For refrigeration - one of the small 12v fridges and a solar panel will do. Otherwise, build a rood cellar. A waterproof container placed in the water on the outer bank of a stream in the shade also makes an acceptable refrigerator. salt and KNO3 have been used as meat preservatives - drying strips to make jerky is another alternative. spices have traditionally been used to offset the slightly rancid taste in colonial times. If consuming rotten meat, parbroil it. During winter - build a box out a window and put an insulated "door" on the inside.

Hope this has been of some help!

-t

[RedStripe]

So much amazing advice, thank you all so much - especially Tangent for that extensive write-up. I am going to try to motivate my family to join me in acquiring the survival knowledge, tools, and food that we will need in the upcoming years. Even nothing else, self-suficiency will be a way of saving our money for other things (like ammo). Hahah

[mellamojuana]

One thing we have done is to plant berry-and-fruit-bearing bushes appropriate for our area of the country.

Thanks for starting this practical thread, and for super info, Posters! :)

[Josh_LA]

Looking at their "holiday unit" the price is $1295

Now, for $1300

You can get, $1-2 cans of tuna, beans, olives, chili beans, pineapple...etc.
Pasta is about $1 a bag as well.

So, if there's 365 days in a week. You eat $2 worth of cans a day, you can eat these cans for 2 years, not one, as the holiday unit recommends. Provided, 1-2 cans is not all you eat today, if you're surviving, you'll learn to cut down to that.

Therefore, if I had $1300, I'd just go out and buy a few hundred cans from a supermarket, 99 cent store or discount grocery store.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Looking at their "holiday unit" the price is $1295

Now, for $1300

You can get, $1-2 cans of tuna, beans, olives, chili beans, pineapple...etc.
Pasta is about $1 a bag as well.

So, if there's 365 days in a week. You eat $2 worth of cans a day, you can eat these cans for 2 years, not one, as the holiday unit recommends. Provided, 1-2 cans is not all you eat today, if you're surviving, you'll learn to cut down to that.

Therefore, if I had $1300, I'd just go out and buy a few hundred cans from a supermarket, 99 cent store or discount grocery store.

hmmm... 2 cans of something a day for a year will cost you $730 and will have a shelf life of 2-3 years, so you will have to eat it regularly to rotate it. The stored stuff will give you 3 meals a day and has a shelf life of 25 years.

decisions, decisions...

But when if comes down to it, if you seek out local sources and do your own storage packaging you can cut their price at least in half if not to a quarter of the price.

variety is good! - from experience, I can tell you that if you are eating nothing but canned stuff you will be craving grains... remember that thing called "nutrition" - you might have heard about it in school. :) a hybrid approach is ideal.

btw: the easiest way to put some storage away is to pick up a few extra cans or whatever every time you go to the store. Keep in mind some things have horrible shelf lives - like flower. Then try and pick up at least one bulk item a month - like 40 pounds of rice or wheat.

-t

[s35wf]

efoodsdirect is tooo expensive for shipping almost $300 in freight for the holiday pkg to be shipped to me in fl. Im sticking with beprepared.com
ive gotten in some stuff in the past from them and i also just ordered their 12 case traditional supply. there out of stock right now, but expect to be able to ship within the next 2-3 weeks.

Im also looking into patriotfoods.com and waltonfeed; but waltons is currently about 8 weeks behind.:(

Anyone here do business with patriotfood or survivalistseeds ??? as i have a 3 person household & with what i have already & whats just been ordered I need to stock more and want some more variety???

also for those who want to know the MH blueberry granola is fantastic. also the red feather butter from mredepot is excellent! everything else is still unopened.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Food Storage FAQ:
http://www.captaindaves.com/foodfaq/

TX: Internet Grocer: (good on canned meats, butter, cheese, etc.)
http://www.internet-grocer.net/

UT: Emergency Essentials (check out water storage, superpails, etc. Note that shipping is a flat $6 per order, but if you get superpails - these are nitrogen packed - you must buy a minimum of 200 pounds. They have monthly specials).
http://beprepared.com/

ID: Walton Feed (backed up - 8 week lead time on orders)
http://www.waltonfeed.com/

UT: Honeyville Grain
http://honeyvillegrain.com/

About food grade buckets:
http://preparingutah.com/2008/05/howto-acquiring-food-storage-buckets/

Buying food storage locally (this article lists additional suppliers)
http://preparetodaynewsletter.blogspot.com/2008/07/buying-storage-food-locally.html

OK, lets talk about local acquisition of food storage:

First, you can follow sales at grocery stores or go to membership places like COSTCO - the problem here is that the shelf life isn't great. Still, picking up a case at a time can save a lot of money - then just "Store what you eat and eat what you store" - you need to do that anyway, as a sudden diet change will not be great for your health - especially if you are already stressed out.

Some restaurant supply houses will sell directory to the public. They will be listed in the business pages (different than the yellow pages). You can get a copy of the business pages by calling your phone company and asking for a copy. Some libraries may have it also. Another source would be searching via google.

Next there are Food Co-ops where you can order in bulk. Some larger natural food stores will also sell in bulk or let you put in special orders. Find a food coop near you here:
http://www.coopdirectory.org/
http://www.localharvest.org/food-coops/
http://www.cooperativegrocer.coop/coops/

For honey, find your local beekeepers association and ask to be put in touch with beekeepers. They will sell direct, generally in 30 or 60 gallon drums.

The Mormon church maintains canneries all over the country and if you approach them, they will often let you use them. You pay actual cost, and do the canning yourself - they will show you how. One tip, however - if you have so much as the cent of a cigarette on your clothing - you will be instantly persona non grata there!

If you have Mennonite or Amish communities near by, they generally have small stores where you can buy bulk grain.

Some farmers will sell direct - you just have to find them. Ask around at farmers markets. You may find a beekeeper this way too.

Finally - Farm, Ranch and Feed stores have grains for animal food. It's the same thing as human food with one important exception - you have to inspect it carefully for small rocks! ditto with buying direct from a farmer. You should also ask about pesticides whenever you buy direct.

as an after thought, don't forget about pet food and litter (if cats).

and if you need AK chow, try here (shipping included - generally 10% off listed prices if you pick up in person - lower NJ)
http://ammoman.com

OK, so you've got hundreds of pounds of grain - how do you pack it for long term storage? Get FOOD GRADE 5 gallon buckets and lids (with the o-ring) and either dry ice from an ice cream store or a CO2 tank and a hose from an industrial gas company. You can also buy dry ice makers that fit on the CO2 tank from science supply houses. place half a pound to a pound of dry ice on the bottom of the bucket and cover with paper towels - then add grain and place the lid on top without hammering it down. Wait... when a match goes out when you lower it just below the rim in the bucket, it's ready to be sealed. A rubber mallet is ideal, a hammer will do. There are special tools to get the lids off that are well worth the couple of bucks they cost. You're done!

As to how much of what to store, there are a couple of software programs that will help you. The first one is free:
http://www.thefoodguys.com/freesoftware.htm

The second one is $40 - but you can download a demo version and see if you like it.
http://www.revelar.com/

You will also need a book or three on cooking with survival/basic foods - it's a lot different than cooking with grocery store stuff. The various suppliers have these.

One good book is "The Mix a Meal Cookbook" that tells you how to make your own mixes from basic ingredients:
http://www.mixameal.com/

OK, so much for grains - one thing you will absolutely need is green veggies in your diet. The easiest way to get them is via sprouts. Emergency Essentials sells sprouting kits and bulk sprout seeds or you can pick up the seeds at health food stores and use a canning jar and either window screen or cheese cloth over the top. Twice a day rinse them with water, let drain and prop up and place propped up somehow with the opening (screen, etc) so it gets some ventilation in a window sill. Takes about a week, so have multiple jars going at once with different start days.

After that, get into gardening and ONLY USE HEIRLOOM SEEDS! - they hybrid stuff won't give you viable seeds for next year! Look into deep bed gardening and composting.

After that, you can build or buy a dehydrator and dry then vacuum pack or store like grain all sorts of things for more variety in your diet. banana slices, tomato's and so on as well as fruit rolls.

You will need a couple of other things that are really basic! The first is a water purifier and extra filters. You might also want to store water. See Emergency Essentials for some solutions, though other places sell containers too. The boxed kits look like the best deal. Access to water, be it a stream, rain barrel or whatever is a very big thing! You will go through more than you expect. it is possible to distill water by inverting a pot lid over a pot with water and suspending a coffee cup so condensed water drips down the lid and handle into the cup. suspend with a coat hanger. Boil. Bleach can be used to sterilize water but clorox only lasts about a year. HTH pool sanitizer lasts a lot longer. Iodine will also work, half of one of the prep pads will do 1 qt of water.

You will need a grain grinder and get the best one you can afford along with spare parts. It's really a key item.

The various suppliers sell toilet seats that fit on a bucket - get some slaked lime to keep the odor down and buy a case of TP.

now we come to a rather difficult area - fuel! You can only store so much and should use a stabilizer if you store gasoline or it will break down. Wood is the only dependable reusable, but remember that it has to cure for a year before you should use it. Cooking on a wood stove is a LOT different than cooking on a modern stove. Get used to it now, not when you need it. Cooking over a open fire also has it's own learning curve but root crops wrapped in foil and stuck in ashes/embers cook in about an hour (re-use the foil) and cooking can also happen in a billy can - that is a tin can that has been put on a fire empty to burn out all the plastic as this is bad for you. It will last a while. You ideally want cast iron cookware. Solar ovens are also a possibility - if the sun is out. In olden days everyone gathered and slept in one small room with the fireplace. Conserving heat and minimizing fuel use is REALLY important!

bandages, sanitary pads and diapers will once again need to be made of cloth.

a hand operated washing machine can be made of a 5 gal bucket and a toilet plunger. Cut a hole in the center of the bucket lid. if near a stream, tie knots on arms legs of clothing and add rocks and toss in stream. There are other methods, but we are getting too far off topic.

For refrigeration - one of the small 12v fridges and a solar panel will do. Otherwise, build a rood cellar. A waterproof container placed in the water on the outer bank of a stream in the shade also makes an acceptable refrigerator. salt and KNO3 have been used as meat preservatives - drying strips to make jerky is another alternative. spices have traditionally been used to offset the slightly rancid taste in colonial times. If consuming rotten meat, parbroil it. During winter - build a box out a window and put an insulated "door" on the inside.

Hope this has been of some help!

-t

I cross posted this somewhere else and got a very useful reply - so am posting that here:

-t

Couple of things to add to this.

Dry ice expands something like 800 times its solid volume. A half pound of dry ice in a 5 gal food grade bucket is a lot. I use less than an egg sized piece at best. Make sure it is completely sublimated before you seal the lid or it will pop the top off. I wrap the dry ice in a piece of paper toweling before putting it in the bottom of the bucket.

Lids should be gasketed. If not then a small bead of silicone will make the seal.

Something to consider is that buckets are not completely air tight. Over time Oxygen will pass through the material.

A step up in storage is to use Mylar bags inside your bucket along with O2 absorbers. Place the bag inside the bucket, fill, drop in an O2 absorber appropriate to the size of your container, heat seal the mylar then seal the bucket.

Be sure that you seal your container of O2 absorbers EACH TIME you pull one out or you will waste your absorbers. I use a swift little clamp for this purpose.

Also, I can't say enough about vac sealing systems. You can store things in smaller packages vac sealed and in rodent proof tubs or buckets. Some systems have Jar sealers and personally, I use these a lot.

Gamma Lids are quite handy for handling opened buckets. They have a screw type closure and work well for buckets you are currently in the process of using. Just drop an O2 absorber in after you take what you need out (I transfer to quart jars for everyday use)

Buckets can be found at Hardware stores, Look for the #2 designation on the bottom.

Some thoughts about what to get for your family:

Store what you use cannot be stressed enough.

One of the easiest ways to start is to keep a running tab of what you use over the course of a month. Don't limit it to food. Keep a list of EVERYTHING including cleaning supplies, personal hygiene etc. If you will be diligent about it and include the amounts you use you'll have a pretty good idea about what it takes to last you through whatever time you are striving for.

As you go to the store to replenish what you've used then double or triple it depending on what your budget can handle.

I can't stress enough how much more efficient it is to buy in bulk.

Label, date and rotate your stores. I use a sharpie pen and write on the lid the date and year. I suggest keeping it in a not so obvious system i.e. 812 = year 2008, 12th month. It saves a lot of explaination and if you decide to pass some things to a food bank its not so obvious.