The Campaign for Icompetency.. (CFL)

[Nate K]

Mods please don't move this thread.. it needs to be viewed by more than 2 people.


Reading some of the scarce threads on the CFL subforum.. it's pretty obvious almost everyone is frustrated with their incompetence. Aren't these the same people that lead Paul's terribly staffed campaign?

Can anyone give me evidence that the staff working for this organization has anything more than a pulse? Can someone show me evidence that the CFL staff is trying their best everyday to innovate their site to be the primary force of this movement? Isn't anyone a bit embarrassed to know this is the best we have after all we've done? These guys don't communicate with us, rarely answer questions and don't seem to have any goals or motivation. Nobody is donating because they don't see a REASON.. there is absolutely positively no communication between the CFL staff and ronpaulforums or ANY other community for that matter. If you don't think that's a problem, please don't ever try to start an organization.


My solution:

Change the staff. Put in people who are so motivated to help the cause of liberty that they will not rely on income solely from the CFL. People donate money - they should also donate services. Put in guys who are connected to the movement so that people like myself aren't so frustrated by the disconnect. That's so crucial. I don't have anything to do with the CFL however so all I can offer here is advice, how a staff change is performed is beyond me - maybe if we all email them about this and call in.

Then there's Plan B to my solution, they ignore us. I think at that point we should have some kind of chip-in and invest in a group of people here in the forums willing to have a site that serves the same function - just with competent people.

[AJ Antimony]

I wouldn't say they're incompetent, but they can't get something right.

I've been waiting months for the CFL website to become something really useful and productive, but after all these months it's still nothing more than a blog.

[roho76]

I don't need the C4L to tell me how to pursue freedom in our country. I will run for School board in the next election to get my feet wet in politics and then fight to move to a higher office where I can start to make a difference in my state.

[Deborah K]

I have to admit I am disappointed in C4L.

[Nate K]

I wouldn't say they're incompetent, but they can't get something right.

I've been waiting months for the CFL website to become something really useful and productive, but after all these months it's still nothing more than a blog.

Exactly.. they're incompetent. lol

If they weren't - they'd set a date for when these useful functions would be available so that people don't forget about it completely. Their whole staff never thought of that?


I don't need the C4L to tell me how to pursue freedom in our country. I will run for School board in the next election to get my feet wet in politics and then fight to move to a higher office where I can start to make a difference in my state.

The point of CFL isn't to tell you what to do.. They're not commanding anybody. It's organization. People network, communicate, and do other useful things to serve our cause. The telegraph era is over.

[american.swan]

Exactly what are you expecting? For them to buy a blimp and fly it over your house saying "Peter Schiff was right?" in large neon colors? For them to have a freedom conference in your house attended by your mayor and local representatives? Get real people.

I couldn't care less what the CFL does. Get involved in your local GOP and make a local difference. Far more would get done if we'd act instead of posting useless threads complaining about the CFL.

If your a member of your local GOP and actively promoting liberty to your town and neighbors then your doing your job and the CFL can die a miserable slow painful death and you shouldn't care.

You need some materials to help promote liberty in your area???? make them yourself.

Stupid thread in my opinion.

[american.swan]

I don't need the C4L to tell me how to pursue freedom in our country. I will run for School board in the next election to get my feet wet in politics and then fight to move to a higher office where I can start to make a difference in my state.

RIGHT ON!! That's the spirit we need here.

[Nate K]

Exactly what are you expecting? For them to buy a blimp and fly it over your house saying "Peter Schiff was right?" in large neon colors? For them to have a freedom conference in your house attended by your mayor and local representatives? Get real people.

I couldn't care less what the CFL does. Get involved in your local GOP and make a local difference. Far more would get done if we'd act instead of posting useless threads complaining about the CFL.

If your a member of your local GOP and actively promoting liberty to your town and neighbors then your doing your job and the CFL can die a miserable slow painful death and you shouldn't care.

You need some materials to help promote liberty in your area???? make them yourself.

Stupid thread in my opinion.

If you weren't aware we are in an economic crisis and power is shifting further away - we do not have time for things to work their way from precincts to counties to states to the federal government. If that was the case Ron Paul would be governor of Texas..

Stupid post in my opinion.

[Deborah K]

I dont think anyone is relying on C4L to do it all for us. But I think we were hoping they would galvanize Ron Paul supporters behind specific projects and really get some shit done since they ARE supposed to be representative of the RP grassroots. Otherwise what the hell good are they? That's all.

[TruthisTreason]

I'd like to do more on my own.
I'd like CFL to do more.
I'd like everyone to do more.
I'll take what we have and start from there.

[Nate K]

To all the people that are going to come here and tell me this is a non-issue and to just DO YOUR JOB IN THE STATE. You obviously have never went out and given slim-jims or anything for our cause.. Why do I say that?

Guess where we refer people to on all of our advertising? Campaignforliberty.com?

Oh, shit.. did you think people were just going to see a billboard of Ron Paul and become a die-hard supporter?! Think before you post, please, I'm tired of your kind.

[orafi]

I don't need the C4L to tell me how to pursue freedom in our country. I will run for School board in the next election to get my feet wet in politics and then fight to move to a higher office where I can start to make a difference in my state.

don't you mean get your feet dirty? politics is gross.

[roho76]

don't you mean get your feet dirty? politics is gross.

I stand corrected. Thank you.

[Austin]

Don, what do you propose the solution be?

[Pete]

To all the people that are going to come here and tell me this is a non-issue and to just DO YOUR JOB IN THE STATE. You obviously have never went out and given slim-jims or anything for our cause.. Why do I say that?

Guess where we refer people to on all of our advertising? Campaignforliberty.com?

Oh, shit.. did you think people were just going to see a billboard of Ron Paul and become a die-hard supporter?! Think before you post, please, I'm tired of your kind.

You have a good point here. I have been thinking of C4L simply as a vehicle for organizing (keeping track of people in your district, etc.) and local networking, and for that it's OK.

But for a new recruit, someone new to our principles, yeah, it leaves a lot to be desired. If I were new to the movement, my first reaction would be, "Why am I here?" The home page has no punch at all. Even organizing as a news/commentary site with the precinct tools in the background would be an improvement.

Right now, I am not expecting the national organization to be doing much more than it is, i.e., preparing education tools.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I think what needs to be done is simple.

Look back at what actually worked for us and duplicate that effort.

Only difference is to make things MORE organized while doing it.

We all hoped that the CFL would come through especially with the amount of money we all assumed they would be throwing at that "org" BUT so far, I don't see anything that we could build from, yet......

Could it make itself more clear later on? Of course BUT it depends on how long people want to wait around for someone else to come up with a great idea.

I personally think that if we have to, use meetup.com or form our own top down organization grassroots style.

All we would need is the following.

1. Main website
2. 50 State organizers
3. Ability for those 50 state organizers to locate "city organizers"
4. City organizers to work locally at building their "grassroots campaign" ready

It wouldn't take a ton of money, the state organizers would simply need to keep in contact with each other and each state organizer would have to keep track of the efforts in their state and assign "city by city" new local organizers who can LEAD and ORGANIZE local efforts.

Keep the entire efforts POLITICIAN NAME FREE, as in not call it "the ron paul experience" or anything like that BUT very generic in nature to attract the GENERAL VOTING PUBLIC.

Simple locate those locally who believe in the basics OF local liberty and so on VERSUS trying to scream END THE FED and 9-11 was an inside job. Keep it basic and simple and to the MOST general topics and ideas that can create some excitement locally WITHOUT having to back a single candidate anytime soon.

This will allow us to take each of these various "levels of organization" to work towards local, state and federal political positions.

Local Organizers could keep tabs on their local elections and at the same time locating candidates to fill EACH AND EVER position locally and allow those within their group to help do the canvassing, promoting and fund raising.

State Organizers could keep tabs on the state elections and locate (with the help of the local organizers) candidates who could take on congressional, senate, house positions based on what location they need to be in.

All the while, we could odds are locate the REAL DEAL CANDIDATES throughout this entire effort who we could potentially run for president within ALL political parties.

---

just wrote that on the fly but that is what I think could and would work, grassroots style and pretty much free.

All that would be needed is

1. hosting - I can do that
2. domain name and catchy "General Org" name
3. design of the site
4. state to state, state to local contact ability
5. flyers and other general information to hand out to generate VOLUNTEERS only and not voters. Why go door to door trying to generate voters with 10 volunteers when you can use those 10 volunteers to focus on getting 10 more volunteers themselves.


-----

the issue, is the cfl going to get their stuff together and if so WHEN?

[Athan]

Well lets assume that it is a possible problem EVEN if it isn't. Let new staff be injected to get it moving where others want it to.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Well lets assume that it is a possible problem EVEN if it isn't. Let new staff be injected to get it moving where others want it to.

Or allow them to work with the cfl as they see fit and maybe us as a grassroots can setup something that works for us and won't cost us anything at all......

Then if the cfl gets things moving we could combine efforts or simply help with the national effort when the time arises.

[Bryan]

I agree they should seek to leverage as much of the grassroots and provide us some suggested direction.



But for a new recruit, someone new to our principles, yeah, it leaves a lot to be desired. If I were new to the movement, my first reaction would be, "Why am I here?"
I agree with this- so what web sites are out there that do have the best home page to recruit someone new to our principles? (Open question for all)



Mods please don't move this thread.. it needs to be viewed by more than 2 people.

Reading some of the scarce threads on the CFL subforum.. it's pretty obvious almost everyone is frustrated with their incompetence.
Great to see that the sub-forum served it's purpose by making it easy to do that. :)


Hopefully this thread can be constructive but, IMO, starting off by assigning people into groups by applying (derogatory) labels isn't a great way to start. Just my $0.02.

[Matt Collins]

I don't have much to criticize Ron about but really the nepotism with Benton should end. He was incompetent, inexperienced, ineffectual, rude, and caused many problems within the campaign. I can't believe he has still continued to serve on the CFL staff after the things he mishandled during the campaign. It's because he married Ron's granddaughter I am pretty sure.

But I must be honest when I say that working with Jeff Frazee and Don Rasmussen has been very pleasurable. I don't know about anyone else on the staff.

[Austin]

I don't have much to criticize Ron about but really the nepotism with Benton should end. He was incompetent, inexperienced, ineffectual, rude, and caused many problems within the campaign. I can't believe he has still continued to serve on the CFL staff after the things he mishandled during the campaign. It's because he married Ron's granddaughter I am pretty sure.

But I must be honest when I say that working with Jeff Frazee and Don Rasmussen has been very pleasurable. I don't know about anyone else on the staff.

Indeed. Jeff and Don should probably stick around. Jeff is heading the Young Americans for Liberty, which I am very glad to be a part of. YAL feels different than C4L, it's going places.

And an endorsement from Ron Paul along with a few thousand smackaroos won't hurt either. (Coming Soon)

[ronpaulhawaii]

I bought www.c4liberty.com/net/org a while back. It is just a placeholder for now. If people like the name and want to help build it out, I am all ears...

[american.swan]

If you weren't aware we are in an economic crisis and power is shifting further away - we do not have time for things to work their way from precincts to counties to states to the federal government. If that was the case Ron Paul would be governor of Texas..

Stupid post in my opinion.

First off, your not a stupid person. I just think the thread isn't going to accomplish what you want.

If you want to make changes during this financial crisis like you say, your going to need to get out among the "new" jobless in your area, because the CFL isn't going to come to your area and start preaching sound money to the "new" jobless for you.

And if you think your going to make changes at the national level without any "precinct" level action your mistaken. All politics is local. It always has been and always will be. The reason freedom is slipping away is because locally people don't care. Mass stupidity(education) is a mess. All local issues.

You must understand that the minds of local citizens must change to REMOVE the people from office that currency hold office either by vote, riot, or armed conflict, because nothing else will work. Your not going to have Bush get on air and suddenly start sounding like Ron Paul. Hell will freeze over first. So the only options you have are the local minds, local bodies, and local guns. That's it. The media isn't going to help. So forget it.

[american.swan]

I'd like to do more on my own.
I'd like CFL to do more.
I'd like everyone to do more.
I'll take what we have and start from there.

+1

[RonPaulVolunteer]

I find it AMAZING how we are all dissenters, yet when we show any dissent from the r3volution's status quo, people want to silence it.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I find it AMAZING how we are all dissenters, yet when we show any dissent from the r3volution's status quo, people want to silence it.

sssh!

[Matt Collins]

sssh!That truly made me laugh outloud tonight. Thanks... ;)

[newyearsrevolution08]

That truly made me laugh outloud tonight. Thanks... ;)

happy to help when I can

[hotbrownsauce]

Sadly I think the focus on the C4L is taking some of the steam away from activism in our own back yards. I think this because C4L hasn't done much overall to guide us as I thought it would. I do commend their actions on the Bailout issues and mentioning the End The Fed event last week.


Admittedly I only attempted to attend one meetup in my area for the "sign bomb" last year but the winds were blowing the worst they had in a LONG time so it was canceled. I however took many opportunities myself to go around when I had a working vehicle to put sheets of paper with information on them EVERYWHERE. I bought washable markers so I could write on things in the restrooms at places I went among other things. I got off track sorry, I want to say that I wish their was more activism in my area and that I had a running vehicle.

I plan to plaster the town C4L when I can.

P.S. I hope C4L will become something more than it is.


*EDIT*

Mission Statement

To promote and defend the great American principles of individual liberty, constitutional government, sound money, free markets, and a noninterventionist foreign policy, by means of educational and political activity.

How should we rate if they are meeting their mission statement? (Obviously to meet this goal it would require activists like us to spread it.) Or Ron Paul to PLUG THE FRICKING WEBSITE when doing an interview and stop being so modest. Does he forget how many people are watching at a given moment while he does these interviews?

[Nate K]

First off, your not a stupid person. I just think the thread isn't going to accomplish what you want.

If you want to make changes during this financial crisis like you say, your going to need to get out among the "new" jobless in your area, because the CFL isn't going to come to your area and start preaching sound money to the "new" jobless for you.

And if you think your going to make changes at the national level without any "precinct" level action your mistaken. All politics is local. It always has been and always will be. The reason freedom is slipping away is because locally people don't care. Mass stupidity(education) is a mess. All local issues.

You must understand that the minds of local citizens must change to REMOVE the people from office that currency hold office either by vote, riot, or armed conflict, because nothing else will work. Your not going to have Bush get on air and suddenly start sounding like Ron Paul. Hell will freeze over first. So the only options you have are the local minds, local bodies, and local guns. That's it. The media isn't going to help. So forget it.

How are you going to change things locally if you have nothing good to refer people to? Are you just going to give people a flyer with Paul's issues with nothing more for them to follow up with?

I have nothing against some of you that are hell-bent on the local route, but it's no excuse to be narrow-minded and limit yourself. A good website is important, we're in the 21st century now and should have something as fundamental as this.


I find it AMAZING how we are all dissenters, yet when we show any dissent from the r3volution's status quo, people want to silence it.

Amen brother, amen.

[newyearsrevolution08]

How are you going to change things locally if you have nothing good to refer people to? Are you just going to give people a flyer with Paul's issues with nothing more for them to follow up with?

I have nothing against some of you that are hell-bent on the local route, but it's no excuse to be narrow-minded and limit yourself. A good website is important, we're in the 21st century now and should have something as fundamental as this.



Amen brother, amen.

I 100% agree, we can however maybe setup a few different websites and efforts and let the grassroots go where they go. Keep it grassroots and free for new ideas and things will work out just fine.

We can have the cfl and we can have other grassroots types of efforts as well and even have websites for each and every one of them.

I think everyone just thought the cfl was going to be an amazing flagship for us to build an empire with and so far all they see is a blog. Either way, we can't sit around and wait for others to take our country back for us.

Start local and move up from there.

[Nate K]

I 100% agree, we can however maybe setup a few different websites and efforts and let the grassroots go where they go. Keep it grassroots and free for new ideas and things will work out just fine.

We can have the cfl and we can have other grassroots types of efforts as well and even have websites for each and every one of them.

I think everyone just thought the cfl was going to be an amazing flagship for us to build an empire with and so far all they see is a blog. Either way, we can't sit around and wait for others to take our country back for us.

Start local and move up from there.

I'd be ecstatic if a group of individuals decided to launch something to rival the CFL and represent our movement for newcomers and serve as a platform for us to network under.

Unless people are united on here for something, things will remain as they are.. rogue websites that never make it past internet infancy.

[WRellim]

My personal opinion, C4L is doing *exactly* what (little) I expected (and predicted -- months ago) that they would do.

A whole lot of (expensive) NOTHING.

What I predicted is exactly what has occurred so far... a bunch of people (ineffective leftovers from an ineffective campaign staff) have established an unnecessary physical office in a (relatively) expensive location, and are drawing salaries (ridiculously high -- considering the actual work being done) while posting blog entries -- most of which are typically "wrapper" postings with references and links to information available OTHER websites.

One can actually gather MORE information from the LRC blog and/or RPF (all of which are free and or done with volunteers).

So from what I can see, all that C4L amounts to is to serve as just another example of typical Beltway political machinery -- a place for staffers to hang their hats (and receive paychecks) in between campaigns.

And (sad to say) that's all I expect it will ever be.

[Nate K]

My personal opinion, C4L is doing *exactly* what (little) I expected (and predicted -- months ago) that they would do.

A whole lot of (expensive) NOTHING.

What I predicted is exactly what has occurred so far... a bunch of people (ineffective leftovers from an ineffective campaign staff) have established an unnecessary physical office in a (relatively) expensive location, and are drawing salaries (ridiculously high -- considering the actual work being done) while posting blog entries -- most of which are typically "wrapper" postings with references and links to information available OTHER websites.

One can actually gather MORE information from the LRC blog and/or RPF (all of which are free and or done with volunteers).

So from what I can see, all that C4L amounts to is to serve as just another example of typical Beltway political machinery -- a place for staffers to hang their hats (and receive paychecks) in between campaigns.

And (sad to say) that's all I expect it will ever be.

I think you're 100% on the mark.

[Pete]

I personally think that if we have to, use meetup.com or form our own top down organization grassroots style.

All we would need is the following.

1. Main website
2. 50 State organizers
3. Ability for those 50 state organizers to locate "city organizers"
4. City organizers to work locally at building their "grassroots campaign" ready

It wouldn't take a ton of money, the state organizers would simply need to keep in contact with each other and each state organizer would have to keep track of the efforts in their state and assign "city by city" new local organizers who can LEAD and ORGANIZE local efforts.

Keep the entire efforts POLITICIAN NAME FREE, as in not call it "the ron paul experience" or anything like that BUT very generic in nature to attract the GENERAL VOTING PUBLIC.

Simple locate those locally who believe in the basics OF local liberty and so on VERSUS trying to scream END THE FED and 9-11 was an inside job. Keep it basic and simple and to the MOST general topics and ideas that can create some excitement locally WITHOUT having to back a single candidate anytime soon.

This will allow us to take each of these various "levels of organization" to work towards local, state and federal political positions.

Local Organizers could keep tabs on their local elections and at the same time locating candidates to fill EACH AND EVER position locally and allow those within their group to help do the canvassing, promoting and fund raising.

State Organizers could keep tabs on the state elections and locate (with the help of the local organizers) candidates who could take on congressional, senate, house positions based on what location they need to be in.

All the while, we could odds are locate the REAL DEAL CANDIDATES throughout this entire effort who we could potentially run for president within ALL political parties.
This is all possible with C4L right now; there's no need to recreate the wheel.

[Peace&Freedom]

This is all possible with C4L right now; there's no need to recreate the wheel.

So how come C4L isn't doing it? Where's all those millions going, anyway? I agree with the 'dissenters' that C4L is repeating the main mistakes of the campaign in a new format, instead of guiding a national network in a productive direction. Local activists could be (for example) scheduling educational forums or speaking engagements where they reach out to actual voting blocks (seniors, advocacy groups et al) on liberty issues. In addition to canvassing GOP districts, the groups could be etching out a victory strategy to get liberty candidates elected in each district they are concentrating on.

C4L cells could be wooing affluent donors in their states to support future Revolution candidates, or setting up state-level PACs that would seek to raise $1,000 from 1,000 donors (or one million per state). Or how about these groups working to build alliances with already existing political groups right now, so the coalitions or endorsements don't have to be cobbled together from scratch after we have a candidate? There's plenty of concrete work like this that can be done in between election cycles, that the C4L should be encouraging and outlining in detail. Why isn't it?

[tangent4ronpaul]

This is all possible with C4L right now; there's no need to recreate the wheel.

The C4L is the one recreating the wheel! - the infrastructure already exists in the grassroots - but they insist on doing it all over from scratch with a 100% incompetence record!

-t

[Nate K]

The C4L is the one recreating the wheel! - the infrastructure already exists in the grassroots - but they insist on doing it all over from scratch with a 100% incompetence record!

-t

good point man

[pacelli]

My personal opinion, C4L is doing *exactly* what (little) I expected (and predicted -- months ago) that they would do.

A whole lot of (expensive) NOTHING.

What I predicted is exactly what has occurred so far... a bunch of people (ineffective leftovers from an ineffective campaign staff) have established an unnecessary physical office in a (relatively) expensive location, and are drawing salaries (ridiculously high -- considering the actual work being done) while posting blog entries -- most of which are typically "wrapper" postings with references and links to information available OTHER websites.

One can actually gather MORE information from the LRC blog and/or RPF (all of which are free and or done with volunteers).

So from what I can see, all that C4L amounts to is to serve as just another example of typical Beltway political machinery -- a place for staffers to hang their hats (and receive paychecks) in between campaigns.

And (sad to say) that's all I expect it will ever be.


Well said. The only thing I've actually learned from the CFL is that I should be much more suspicious of giving money to anything political. Ron Paul & the campaign never said ahead of time that they weren't going to spend all of the money on the presidential campaign. I'll tell you what, I love Ron Paul's message, but that will be the last time I donate $4600 to anything he's connected to. A lie of omission is the same as a lie of commission. Don't tell me that you need $12 million to win and then spend 8 million.

I agree with the OP's solution but the 'plan B' at the end is what I disagreed with-- the chip-in thing. So you had me agreeing up until that point. Everything else was great.

[Nate K]

Well said. The only thing I've actually learned from the CFL is that I should be much more suspicious of giving money to anything political. Ron Paul & the campaign never said ahead of time that they weren't going to spend all of the money on the presidential campaign. I'll tell you what, I love Ron Paul's message, but that will be the last time I donate $4600 to anything he's connected to.

I agree with the OP's solution but the 'plan B' at the end is what I disagreed with-- the chip-in thing. So you had me agreeing up until that point. Everything else was great.

I have to strongly agree. It's odd how awesome Ron Paul is but the people and finances associated with him are terrible. Some of these fools oughtta figure it out how much of a mockery they're making out of him.

[ronpaulhawaii]

ISTM that one of the underlying problems with CfL is the lack of communication between HQ and GR. This is one of the main problems we suffered under the PCC. Not all the staff is incompetent, but their inability/unwillingness to address valid complaints is unacceptable. They should be here and on DP everyday. Otherwise they seem to be taking the ostrich approach to problems.

Another big issue is the lack of a post election discussion regarding the successes and failures of the election campaign between HQ and GR. I don't know of any successful org that does not do this. Again, this goes back to the first point I raised.

I think there will always be a need for multiple portals to the r3volution. Tailor made for specific areas and/or issues. There will remain a need for a centralized "HQ" that it all leads to. I don't think most of us will ever be happy with unelected "leadership" and perhaps we need to rebuild the CfL like we want to rebuild the GOP...

[Pete]

So how come C4L isn't doing it? Where's all those millions going, anyway? I agree with the 'dissenters' that C4L is repeating the main mistakes of the campaign in a new format, instead of guiding a national network in a productive direction. Local activists could be (for example) scheduling educational forums or speaking engagements where they reach out to actual voting blocks (seniors, advocacy groups et al) on liberty issues. In addition to canvassing GOP districts, the groups could be etching out a victory strategy to get liberty candidates elected in each district they are concentrating on.

C4L cells could be wooing affluent donors in their states to support future Revolution candidates, or setting up state-level PACs that would seek to raise $1,000 from 1,000 donors (or one million per state). Or how about these groups working to build alliances with already existing political groups right now, so the coalitions or endorsements don't have to be cobbled together from scratch after we have a candidate? There's plenty of concrete work like this that can be done in between election cycles, that the C4L should be encouraging and outlining in detail. Why isn't it?

My county group has been showing movies and having speakers at a static location, and is going to start holding events in different communities in January. We are in the process of organizing as a nonprofit lobbying group and expect that members will form separate PACs. We are individually joining political parties and joining in their meetings. We have some funding "angels" and will solicit more when we have a little more to show in the way of organization and results.

National has nothing to do with it; it's local. The communication tool has been Meetup but we are trying to wean people off of that and join C4L. At this time, working the precincts is somewhat pointless because we need many more precinct leaders, so we are working more on area recruiting.

We do not need a new website/organization to do any of this stuff. We are doing it already, through C4L.

[Nate K]

ISTM that one of the underlying problems with CfL is the lack of communication between HQ and GR. This is one of the main problems we suffered under the PCC. Not all the staff is incompetent, but their inability/unwillingness to address valid complaints is unacceptable. They should be here and on DP everyday. Otherwise they seem to be taking the ostrich approach to problems.

Another big issue is the lack of a post election discussion regarding the successes and failures of the election campaign between HQ and GR. I don't know of any successful org that does not do this. Again, this goes back to the first point I raised.

I think there will always be a need for multiple portals to the r3volution. Tailor made for specific areas and/or issues. There will remain a need for a centralized "HQ" that it all leads to. I don't think most of us will ever be happy with unelected "leadership" and perhaps we need to rebuild the CfL like we want to rebuild the GOP...

Definitely agree. Just wondering, what is DP you refer to?

[ronpaulhawaii]

My county group has been showing movies and having speakers at a static location, and is going to start holding events in different communities in January. We are in the process of organizing as a nonprofit lobbying group and expect that members will form separate PACs. We are individually joining political parties and joining in their meetings. We have some funding "angels" and will solicit more when we have a little more to show in the way of organization and results.

National has nothing to do with it; it's local. The communication tool has been Meetup but we are trying to wean people off of that and join C4L. At this time, working the precincts is somewhat pointless because we need many more precinct leaders, so we are working more on area recruiting.

We do not need a new website/organization to do any of this stuff. We are doing it already, through C4L.

So "you" are fine with leaving the disillusioned behind and attempting to recruit "new" members to the r3volution? How is the recruiting going? What are the PL #s compared to the PL #s during the election campaign?

[edit- DP=Daily Paul]

[tangent4ronpaul]

Definitely agree. Just wondering, what is DP you refer to?

DP = Daily Paul = DailyPaul.com

It's a blog

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

So "you" are fine with leaving the disillusioned behind and attempting to recruit "new" members to the r3volution? How is the recruiting going? What are the PL #s compared to the PL #s during the election campaign?

[edit- DP=Daily Paul]

Locally we have had 2-3 new members walk in - all have given us REALLY BAD VIBES! - stuff they say not matching reality, agent provocateur statements like - "so is it time for a violent revolution" - stuff like that... Anyone else experienced this stuff???

My suggestion - recruit from the past supporters and anyone looking for a leadership role should EARN their bones! - - all these new "hotshots" have tried to shoot into the leadership... View new ppl with a HIGH degree of suspicion!

-t

[Nate K]

So "you" are fine with leaving the disillusioned behind and attempting to recruit "new" members to the r3volution? How is the recruiting going? What are the PL #s compared to the PL #s during the election campaign?

[edit- DP=Daily Paul]

AMEN!! I find it amazing that people want to recruit MORE people after we've abandoned two-thirds of our previous numbers through this incompetent centralization we've been subject to.

It's a waste, it's a complete waste of our resources and time to know that everything we did in Paul's campaign is mostly forgotten because we choose to appeal only to those willing to put up with the frustrating mess we're left to deal with.

[Pete]

The C4L is the one recreating the wheel! - the infrastructure already exists in the grassroots - but they insist on doing it all over from scratch with a 100% incompetence record!

-t

The grassroots is fragmented. Meetup has no accountability; you have no idea who you have where, and typically only about 10% show up for stuff. You don't have phone numbers or addresses. There is no hierarchy to state level, and no way to follow what's going on in other areas unless you join their meetups.

People have a hard-on for national C4L, but is fact it doesn't matter much what national does. C4L is mainly a vehicle for organizing the states. The $35 is a token and helps keep out the riffraff, so I support it.

[ronpaulhawaii]

The grassroots is fragmented. Meetup has no accountability; you have no idea who you have where, and typically only about 10% show up for stuff. You don't have phone numbers or addresses. There is no hierarchy to state level, and no way to follow what's going on in other areas unless you join their meetups.

People have a hard-on for national C4L, but is fact it doesn't matter much what national does. C4L is mainly a vehicle for organizing the states. The $35 is a token and helps keep out the riffraff, so I support it.

CfL has no accountability either, nor transparency, nor much respect. And BS that it doesn't matter what HQ does. One big problem is we have nowhere to send people to / acceptable url to use on literature until HQ sorts out the mess

[constituent]

trolls, moles and dividers.

[Pete]

So "you" are fine with leaving the disillusioned behind and attempting to recruit "new" members to the r3volution? How is the recruiting going? What are the PL #s compared to the PL #s during the election campaign?

[edit- DP=Daily Paul]

No, I have a list of "old" members and am working it. No phone numbers or addresses is a drawback. I'm also contacting members who are not PLs and encouraging them to commit. I agree that these are the best prospects for new PLs.

PL #s are shitty.

I'm glad that the subject of C4L membership has come up on RPF. It's good that we're kicking around pros and cons. I think that most people feel that it's the campaign all over again, but that's not true. It's whatever we make it in our own towns and state.

[tangent4ronpaul]

trolls, moles and dividers.

*YEAH!* - We have a true believer! - one that will let corruption and incompetence go on so long as the "cause" is pure...

<rolls eyes>

There is a time for REVOLT! - and that time is happening NOW!

-t

[ronpaulhawaii]

No, I have a list of "old" members and am working it. No phone numbers or addresses is a drawback. I'm also contacting members who are not PLs and encouraging them to commit. I agree that these are the best prospects for new PLs.

PL #s are shitty.

I'm glad that the subject of C4L membership has come up on RPF. It's good that we're kicking around pros and cons. I think that most people feel that it's the campaign all over again, but that's not true. It's whatever we make it in our own towns and state.

The subject of membership has been kicked around here since it was first formed. Most people lost interest due to the lack of transparency/accountability/communication. Until these issues are addressed recruiting will remain a problem. People have little, to no, trust in the org due to the ostrich behavior of HQ

[Nate K]

The grassroots is fragmented. Meetup has no accountability; you have no idea who you have where, and typically only about 10% show up for stuff. You don't have phone numbers or addresses. There is no hierarchy to state level, and no way to follow what's going on in other areas unless you join their meetups.

People have a hard-on for national C4L, but is fact it doesn't matter much what national does. C4L is mainly a vehicle for organizing the states. The $35 is a token and helps keep out the riffraff, so I support it.

Let's stop using local and national terms, it's really pointless. C4L could be local, it could be national, it's not JUST national simply because it's on the internet. There's been a big misconception around here that a platform we can ALL use will "centralize" our numbers and not allow us to work locally.. it's all irrational absolutist fear. If C4L operated as it should, we would remain as decentralized as it is currently.

The real fear in some of you is that we may just get something done by having people work through one site. Do you all want to know why we lost so many people after Paul's run was over? They were tired of waiting around for a platform to use.

The problem with some of you is that you think everyone else should think like you - you want them to be "principled, mr. absolutist local campaigner" man who's never taken out a loan or anything. Sorry bud - doesn't work like that. You might as well stop recruiting because not everyone will change for you. People need a simpler platform to communicate through if you want others to join the cause.

[Pete]

CfL has no accountability either, nor transparency, nor much respect. And BS that it doesn't matter what HQ does. One big problem is we have nowhere to send people to / acceptable url to use on literature until HQ sorts out the mess

I am not a fan of the homepage, and hate the logo. My emphasis would not be so much on sending people to the homepage, but to communicate about issues and asking them to join for the networking, which is potentially powerful. It's not yet, for lack of participation.

[Ron Paul Vermont]

I am going to have to disagree with you Nate. Sure the website does look a little amateur but the whole setup is much better than the old site. When I joined and looked at all the C4L members in my states it was wonderful to see all the liberty minded people in my state some of whom I new. Also it is really easy to keep in contact with them and the precinct leader program and everything is great.

I hope you have already joined and based your opinions off of what you saw as a member. If you just look at the website as a non-member you only see half of the good stuff. You don't even have to sign up as a member. First sign up as a second class non-paying member and if you like it from their upgrade. :)

[Nate K]

I am going to have to disagree with you Nate. Sure the website does look a little amateur but the whole setup is much better than the old site. When I joined and looked at all the C4L members in my states it was wonderful to see all the liberty minded people in my state some of whom I new. Also it is really easy to keep in contact with them and the precinct leader program and everything is great.

I hope you have already joined and based your opinions off of what you saw as a member. If you just look at the website as a non-member you only see half of the good stuff. You don't even have to sign up as a member. First sign up as a second class non-paying member and if you like it from their upgrade. :)

I'm fine with you disagreeing, at least you didn't insult me like the rest of the weak-minded have. I've been a member since it's been up, and I've examined all of its functions and found so many flaws. I contacted them about it, got a response that they're "working on it".. replied with another more important email and haven't gotten one back for months.

They don't deserve anymore money. And also, you don't get a second chance at first impressions, so.. an "amateur" site isn't too good for us being that it represents the very best we have as a movement.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'm a dues paying member and not impressed at all. I got an announcement that we would be having a meeting at TBD date, replied, never heard back, and then discovered they had had the meeting (a whole 5 people showed, including the the SC) :rolleyes:

[LittleLightShining]

I'm a dues paying member and not impressed at all. I got an announcement that we would be having a meeting at TBD date, replied, never heard back, and then discovered they had had the meeting (a whole 5 people showed, including the the SC) :rolleyes:Sounds like bad planning on the part of your state membership. You can't blame that on HQ.

[tangent4ronpaul]

.

They don't deserve anymore money. And also, you don't get a second chance at first impressions, so.. an "amateur" site isn't too good for us being that it represents the very best we have as a movement.

Nate, the only reason it's not a total sinking ship is that it's RP's project. Otherwise it would be taking a fast track to the bottom like so many before it have...

-t

[tonesforjonesbones]

1. Make it a total volunteer organization...from the top down
2. Keep your money local so you can use it for spreading the word.
3. I believe it is better NOT to have a "pyramid" structured organization...but an organization that fans out...in case one segment of it gets infiltrated by the opposition...like an infantry squad. Infantry squads don't group up...they fan out...so if one gets knocked off it doesnt kill the whole squad. Keep the organizations local and separate. Fan out and infiltrate existing organizations by changing hearts and minds..and gently pass out liberty information etc.

Here, I'll post this AGAIN....we have to BEWARE:

CONTROLLED OPPOSITION

In the effort to establish a singular global government, the powers that be recognized that opposition to their plan would be evident and unavoidable. These opposition forces must certainly be neutralized and their voices squelched, if the socialists' plans to conquer the world were to be rendered successful.

How can one keep leaders from arising out of the teaming masses to speak out against the plan in favor of freedom? The diabolical would-be dictators understood the only way to accomplish this, was to create the perception that someone was already fighting the battle of liberty for them. Someone who both supported the plan, yet spoke out against it. Someone who would gain the trust of the masses, then employ diversionary tactics, leading them into tyranny.

These are the controlled opposition. They come in many different forms, and organizations, and purport to stand for various causes. Some fill pulpits, others occupy public offices. Several are broadcasters. All are deceivers. All are players of a manipulation process called the Hegelian Dialectic.

They hammer at issues, are vocal about matters of Liberty and even do some good deeds. But their efforts always fail to mobilize their supporters to take the right action, leading the majority who never see through their scheme to ask, "Who silenced the outcry?"

[ronpaulhawaii]

Sounds like bad planning on the part of your state membership. You can't blame that on HQ.

No, I blame other problems on HQ. Primarily the lack of transparency/accountability/communication. The problem is that when a HQ acts that way, such behavior carries through to the local levels and result in the problem I described above

[Pete]

Let's stop using local and national terms, it's really pointless. C4L could be local, it could be national, it's not JUST national simply because it's on the internet. There's been a big misconception around here that a platform we can ALL use will "centralize" our numbers and not allow us to work locally.. it's all irrational absolutist fear. If C4L operated as it should, we would remain as decentralized as it is currently.

When I say national doesn't matter, I'm perhaps oversimplifying, but there's SO much we can do locally in terms of educating voters face to face, getting into the parties, and affecting the debate on local issues. Of course if national were as influential and visible as the ACLU, for example, it would make the job much easier.


The real fear in some of you is that we may just get something done by having people work through one site. Do you all want to know why we lost so many people after Paul's run was over? They were tired of waiting around for a platform to use.

Maybe. I've been clueless as to why people have fallen away, thinking that maybe they were demoralized by the campaign, or became Obama converts, or just think that the job is too big.


The problem with some of you is that you think everyone else should think like you - you want them to be "principled, mr. absolutist local campaigner" man who's never taken out a loan or anything. Sorry bud - doesn't work like that. You might as well stop recruiting because not everyone will change for you. People need a simpler platform to communicate through if you want others to join the cause.

Are you talking to me? I'm in debt up to my @ss.

I think the platform is straightforward enough; we have an oppressive, irresponsible, unresponsive, and dangerous state apparatus that need to be bent to conform to the law, and ultimately the will of the People. We need to pressure the jackals in office, throw out the bums, and elect good guys, preferably from our ranks. We need to scream bloody murder whenever the state even contemplates infringing on our natural rights or burdening us unfairly. I don't need national to tell me this.

[Nate K]

When I say national doesn't matter, I'm perhaps oversimplifying, but there's SO much we can do locally in terms of educating voters face to face, getting into the parties, and affecting the debate on local issues. Of course if national were as influential and visible as the ACLU, for example, it would make the job much easier.



Maybe. I've been clueless as to why people have fallen away, thinking that maybe they were demoralized by the campaign, or became Obama converts, or just think that the job is too big.



Are you talking to me? I'm in debt up to my @ss.

I think the platform is straightforward enough; we have an oppressive, irresponsible, unresponsive, and dangerous state apparatus that need to be bent to conform to the law, and ultimately the will of the People. We need to pressure the jackals in office, throw out the bums, and elect good guys, preferably from our ranks. We need to scream bloody murder whenever the state even contemplates infringing on our natural rights or burdening us unfairly. I don't need national to tell me this.

Dude, what is your definition of national then? How many times have I said the CFL should not operate as a command system, it's for NETWORKING and ORGANIZATION purposes.

[pacelli]

I think the platform is straightforward enough; we have an oppressive, irresponsible, unresponsive, and dangerous state apparatus that need to be bent to conform to the law, and ultimately the will of the People. We need to pressure the jackals in office, throw out the bums, and elect good guys, preferably from our ranks. We need to scream bloody murder whenever the state even contemplates infringing on our natural rights or burdening us unfairly. I don't need national to tell me this.

They won't, because they can't. CFL can't endorse (i.e. "elect good guys") nor detract (i.e. "throw out the bums") from any campaign.

[Pete]

They won't, because they can't. CFL can't endorse (i.e. "elect good guys") nor detract (i.e. "throw out the bums") from any campaign.

Through C4L, we can educate on issues and publish voter guides. Individually or in separate PACs we can do whatever we want, including participating in party politics and supporting campaigns.

[Pete]

Dude, what is your definition of national then? How many times have I said the CFL should not operate as a command system, it's for NETWORKING and ORGANIZATION purposes.

I think we have a misunderstanding. There is a national C4L organization that does it's own thing, including preparing materials that I can use for networking and organizing within my own sphere of influence.

I don't see it as top down.

[tonesforjonesbones]

[rph edit - editx2 duplicate post deleted see http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1843242&postcount=61...]

[Nate K]

I think we have a misunderstanding. There is a national C4L organization that does it's own thing, including preparing materials that I can use for networking and organizing within my own sphere of influence.

I don't see it as top down.

I could care less about the materials, that's not the only things they offer. The most important thing is coordination and communication with locals. There is absolutely no incentive right now for anyone to log on after they first joined, I know this because I've emailed all the people in my area, 90% never come back on.

[tonesforjonesbones]

ronpaulhawaii..I'm quite sure you do. TONES. (truth hurts)

[tangent4ronpaul]

[rph edit - we heard you the first time. I wish I could put you on ignore...]

That is just RUDE RPH - let the man speak his peace!

-t

[tropicangela]

That is just RUDE RPH - let the man speak his peace!

-t

Her.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I don't want to see this discussion sidetracked. The post I deleted appeared twice on the same page.

[LittleLightShining]

I could care less about the materials, that's not the only things they offer. The most important thing is coordination and communication with locals. There is absolutely no incentive right now for anyone to log on after they first joined, I know this because I've emailed all the people in my area, 90% never come back on.The state coordinator has access to the contact info for these folks. The VT interim state coordinator divvied up the contacts by county and gave them to the county coordinators to get a hold of.

[Nate K]

The state coordinator has access to the contact info for these folks. The VT interim state coordinator divvied up the contacts by county and gave them to the county coordinators to get a hold of.

well cool for Vermont but I have no county or district coordinators to "tell me what to do".. the problem is in the current "telling what to do". There should be easier communication between all locals, that includes an incentive to actually log on - so there doesn't need to be a coordinator if there isn't one.

[tonesforjonesbones]

This discussion was NOT sidetracked by my post....you just didn't like it. My post has EVERYTHING to do with the topic at hand. You wanted to brush it off by ignoring it..THAT is why I posted it twice. I'm not stupid. TONES!

[Nate K]

To be honest I have many ideas that could improve the CFL. But at the moment I feel it would be a waste to even discuss them - the same people are gonna run it no matter what.

Does any ONE person own the CFL?

[tangent4ronpaul]

I don't want to see this discussion sidetracked. The post I deleted appeared twice on the same page.

So couldn't you have just posted "duplicate post - see post # whatever for full text"???

-t

ps: now I'm really curious - what post # was that text "duplicated" from???

[ronpaulhawaii]

[edit Tangent - fair enough, my apologies]


To be honest I have many ideas that could improve the CFL. But at the moment I feel it would be a waste to even discuss them - the same people are gonna run it no matter what.

Does any ONE person own the CFL?

So, how do we get them to respond? Flood the Q&A board?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Stop paying them. tones

[LittleLightShining]

well cool for Vermont but I have no county or district coordinators to "tell me what to do".. the problem is in the current "telling what to do". There should be easier communication between all locals, that includes an incentive to actually log on - so there doesn't need to be a coordinator if there isn't one.Look, we didn't sit around and wait for orders from HQ. Our meetup group is still pretty active (if only emailing news to each other and talking about it and the elections and what not). We decided we were going to get this C4L thing going here. I signed up as a PL and so did another guy (who's now our state coordinator). I started trying to contact people through the site and wasn't having much luck due to reasons already stated above.

I decided to call HQ and ask them how we could get the contact info for the 200 members that didn't have profiles. They said we needed more PL's in order to get an interim state coordinator. I ended up talking with Debbie Hopper.

I had to explain that we have an active core group of RP supporters that worked really hard during the primaries, got absolutely no support whatsoever from the PCC and we are working now to build the C4L here. HOWEVER, how do we recruit a "sufficient"(whatever that means because I still don't know) number of PL's if we can't get in touch with people who are obviously interested enough to enter their information? THOSE are the folks we need to recruit as PL's.

Debbie agreed enough to allow us to give us an interim state coordinator. I think part of what helped get us to that point was the fact that we are motivated and want to get going on this. We're NOT waiting for directions, we're doing it. We've had one meeting so far, are having another in 2 weeks and are planning a convention for the end of January.

You just have to take the bull by the horns and do it. Of course people aren't going to be interested in being a part of the C4L if they don't see anything actively happening for them to be involved with. Organize it. Network with as many people as you can from your state to get a hold of people that were active at one point in time and build from there.

[tangent4ronpaul]

1. Make it a total volunteer organization...from the top down
2. Keep your money local so you can use it for spreading the word.
3. I believe it is better NOT to have a "pyramid" structured organization...but an organization that fans out...in case one segment of it gets infiltrated by the opposition...like an infantry squad. Infantry squads don't group up...they fan out...so if one gets knocked off it doesnt kill the whole squad. Keep the organizations local and separate. Fan out and infiltrate existing organizations by changing hearts and minds..and gently pass out liberty information etc.

Here, I'll post this AGAIN....we have to BEWARE:

CONTROLLED OPPOSITION

In the effort to establish a singular global government, the powers that be recognized that opposition to their plan would be evident and unavoidable. These opposition forces must certainly be neutralized and their voices squelched, if the socialists' plans to conquer the world were to be rendered successful.

How can one keep leaders from arising out of the teaming masses to speak out against the plan in favor of freedom? The diabolical would-be dictators understood the only way to accomplish this, was to create the perception that someone was already fighting the battle of liberty for them. Someone who both supported the plan, yet spoke out against it. Someone who would gain the trust of the masses, then employ diversionary tactics, leading them into tyranny.

These are the controlled opposition. They come in many different forms, and organizations, and purport to stand for various causes. Some fill pulpits, others occupy public offices. Several are broadcasters. All are deceivers. All are players of a manipulation process called the Hegelian Dialectic.

They hammer at issues, are vocal about matters of Liberty and even do some good deeds. But their efforts always fail to mobilize their supporters to take the right action, leading the majority who never see through their scheme to ask, "Who silenced the outcry?"

Is the above the missing post? - just curious....

It was at the top of the PREVIOUS page! - so was it?


-t

[ronpaulhawaii]

I the above the missing post? - just curious....

-t

Yes

[Nate K]

So, how do we get them to respond? Flood the Q&A board?

Not a bad idea. I think if we did that, emailed them, and especially had precinct leaders email them - guaranteeing a response, something should happen. If nothing there's numbers to call.

The only problem is how we approach them about it, "hi uh.. you guys are incompetent, step down please?" lol.

Just an idea, maybe we should have a petition on these boards that we all "sign" through posts or a poll and show them the thread. A written declaration that goes something like, "If no updates or promised dates of specific updates, we take this action..."

Ideas?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Yes that is the post. tones

[Nate K]

lmao, our PA interim state coordinator hasn't logged in for 10 days.

[Pete]

well cool for Vermont but I have no county or district coordinators to "tell me what to do".. the problem is in the current "telling what to do". There should be easier communication between all locals, that includes an incentive to actually log on - so there doesn't need to be a coordinator if there isn't one.

The coordinator positions are not big responsibility. I was asked to be a CD coordinator and said OK, to fill the slot. All coordinators are interim pending elections or whatever the members decide in their areas. Why not volunteer?

[Imperial]

I think what needs to be done is simple.

Look back at what actually worked for us and duplicate that effort.

Only difference is to make things MORE organized while doing it.

We all hoped that the CFL would come through especially with the amount of money we all assumed they would be throwing at that "org" BUT so far, I don't see anything that we could build from, yet......

Could it make itself more clear later on? Of course BUT it depends on how long people want to wait around for someone else to come up with a great idea.

I personally think that if we have to, use meetup.com or form our own top down organization grassroots style.

All we would need is the following.

1. Main website
2. 50 State organizers
3. Ability for those 50 state organizers to locate "city organizers"
4. City organizers to work locally at building their "grassroots campaign" ready

It wouldn't take a ton of money, the state organizers would simply need to keep in contact with each other and each state organizer would have to keep track of the efforts in their state and assign "city by city" new local organizers who can LEAD and ORGANIZE local efforts.

Keep the entire efforts POLITICIAN NAME FREE, as in not call it "the ron paul experience" or anything like that BUT very generic in nature to attract the GENERAL VOTING PUBLIC.

Simple locate those locally who believe in the basics OF local liberty and so on VERSUS trying to scream END THE FED and 9-11 was an inside job. Keep it basic and simple and to the MOST general topics and ideas that can create some excitement locally WITHOUT having to back a single candidate anytime soon.

This will allow us to take each of these various "levels of organization" to work towards local, state and federal political positions.

Local Organizers could keep tabs on their local elections and at the same time locating candidates to fill EACH AND EVER position locally and allow those within their group to help do the canvassing, promoting and fund raising.

State Organizers could keep tabs on the state elections and locate (with the help of the local organizers) candidates who could take on congressional, senate, house positions based on what location they need to be in.

All the while, we could odds are locate the REAL DEAL CANDIDATES throughout this entire effort who we could potentially run for president within ALL political parties.

---

just wrote that on the fly but that is what I think could and would work, grassroots style and pretty much free.

All that would be needed is

1. hosting - I can do that
2. domain name and catchy "General Org" name
3. design of the site
4. state to state, state to local contact ability
5. flyers and other general information to hand out to generate VOLUNTEERS only and not voters. Why go door to door trying to generate voters with 10 volunteers when you can use those 10 volunteers to focus on getting 10 more volunteers themselves.


-----

the issue, is the cfl going to get their stuff together and if so WHEN?

Everything you said is doable now by the grassroots though in C4L. And, we wouldn't need to spend anything. I think the problem is simple. We are looking for C4L to lead the grassroots. If you get this out of your head, and lower your expectations, it is what it is. It is a tool to organize YOURSELF, giving some ideas and information to help you out.

Starting an entire new organization is rebuilding the wheel. Furthermore, it takes effort, loyalty, and without some of the capabilities of C4L. So, you and I may disagree with everything C4L has done. Didn't Ron Paul also not want to run for president? The grassroots campaigned vigorously in his stead. Now, the C4L provides a format that we can fill if we make the effort. Making a new organization does nothing C4L can't do right now.

[LittleLightShining]

The coordinator positions are not big responsibility. I was asked to be a CD coordinator and said OK, to fill the slot. All coordinators are interim pending elections or whatever the members decide in their areas. Why not volunteer?also you could nominate yourself and then call HQ and ask them to approve you.

[Melissa]

I really don't want to jump into this because I hate the title, but oh well. I am a state coordinator and I really don't understand why people are mad, except if it because we lost, I am with Littlelightshining and Pete, I don't wait around for HQ, and the meetups suck, have the entire campaign and that has nothing to do with HQ, that is just they site we had at the time.

I am right now having a state wide meeting to see where my state wants to go, if you want to do something, please please, don't wait, go do your own thing, if your state has no State Coordinator ask to be that person, if that is too big then be district or county and start having meetings, we really can't do anything until we are all on the same network site as a whole and I don't think it is so much people (except here) are mad at HQ, they just went back to whatever they were doing after Dr. Paul lost.

I guess I don't get mad at them because I am not sure how HQ can take back my neighborhood, only I can, I am in no way bashing the ideas on here or anyone that it is mad at HQ.

I just really don't understand how they make you mad, tell me what you need from them to help you to take back your area, and maybe others on here can give you ideas to use if HQ is not giving you any

[Nate K]

how's the CFL a tool to organize yourself?

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am disgusted...our coordinator hasn't done anything. He emailed me and asked me if I wanted to be involved and i said yes. Not a word since. I ended up joining another organization that is forming locally...at least they are having meetings and handing out pocket constitutions. I just got weary of trying to rally the c4L leader here. tones

[HOLLYWOOD]

Website needs a major revamping... still amatuerish and get rid of the WHITE "BLOG" layout.

I think C4L should run this website like a Newspaper... managing editors/team meetings to select stories and information submitted from regional members or even anyone. Run the most important stories each day/week/warranted events/ etc, and projected feature stories each month in a professional manner.

Try using the site like a newspaper and input from all across the country and world. What stories to run and which to bury or hold.

It should be an Educational and Informational site... along with being a C4L member and movement website. It appears to me that management and culture are wrong on this org.

PS: buy up all the associated URLs and resolve to C4L with DNS

my 2 cents




All we would need is the following.

1. Main website
2. 50 State organizers
3. Ability for those 50 state organizers to locate "city organizers"
4. City organizers to work locally at building their "grassroots campaign" ready

It wouldn't take a ton of money, the state organizers would simply need to keep in contact with each other and each state organizer would have to keep track of the efforts in their state and assign "city by city" new local organizers who can LEAD and ORGANIZE local efforts.

Keep the entire efforts POLITICIAN NAME FREE, as in not call it "the ron paul experience" or anything like that BUT very generic in nature to attract the GENERAL VOTING PUBLIC.

Simple locate those locally who believe in the basics OF local liberty and so on VERSUS trying to scream END THE FED and 9-11 was an inside job. Keep it basic and simple and to the MOST general topics and ideas that can create some excitement locally WITHOUT having to back a single candidate anytime soon.

This will allow us to take each of these various "levels of organization" to work towards local, state and federal political positions.

Local Organizers could keep tabs on their local elections and at the same time locating candidates to fill EACH AND EVER position locally and allow those within their group to help do the canvassing, promoting and fund raising.

State Organizers could keep tabs on the state elections and locate (with the help of the local organizers) candidates who could take on congressional, senate, house positions based on what location they need to be in.

All the while, we could odds are locate the REAL DEAL CANDIDATES throughout this entire effort who we could potentially run for president within ALL political parties.

---

just wrote that on the fly but that is what I think could and would work, grassroots style and pretty much free.

All that would be needed is

1. hosting - I can do that
2. domain name and catchy "General Org" name
3. design of the site
4. state to state, state to local contact ability
5. flyers and other general information to hand out to generate VOLUNTEERS only and not voters. Why go door to door trying to generate voters with 10 volunteers when you can use those 10 volunteers to focus on getting 10 more volunteers themselves.


-----

the issue, is the cfl going to get their stuff together and if so WHEN?

[ronpaulhawaii]

Look, we didn't sit around and wait for orders from HQ. Our meetup group is still pretty active (if only emailing news to each other and talking about it and the elections and what not). We decided we were going to get this C4L thing going here. I signed up as a PL and so did another guy (who's now our state coordinator). I started trying to contact people through the site and wasn't having much luck due to reasons already stated above.

I decided to call HQ and ask them how we could get the contact info for the 200 members that didn't have profiles. They said we needed more PL's in order to get an interim state coordinator. I ended up talking with Debbie Hopper.

I had to explain that we have an active core group of RP supporters that worked really hard during the primaries, got absolutely no support whatsoever from the PCC and we are working now to build the C4L here. HOWEVER, how do we recruit a "sufficient"(whatever that means because I still don't know) number of PL's if we can't get in touch with people who are obviously interested enough to enter their information? THOSE are the folks we need to recruit as PL's.

Debbie agreed enough to allow us to give us an interim state coordinator. I think part of what helped get us to that point was the fact that we are motivated and want to get going on this. We're NOT waiting for directions, we're doing it. We've had one meeting so far, are having another in 2 weeks and are planning a convention for the end of January.

You just have to take the bull by the horns and do it. Of course people aren't going to be interested in being a part of the C4L if they don't see anything actively happening for them to be involved with. Organize it. Network with as many people as you can from your state to get a hold of people that were active at one point in time and build from there.

+2010


Not a bad idea. I think if we did that, emailed them, and especially had precinct leaders email them - guaranteeing a response, something should happen. If nothing there's numbers to call.

The only problem is how we approach them about it, "hi uh.. you guys are incompetent, step down please?" lol.

Just an idea, maybe we should have a petition on these boards that we all "sign" through posts or a poll and show them the thread. A written declaration that goes something like, "If no updates or promised dates of specific updates, we take this action..."

Ideas?

Yes, the approach is important... I look forward to seeing ideas along these lines...


The coordinator positions are not big responsibility. I was asked to be a CD coordinator and said OK, to fill the slot. All coordinators are interim pending elections or whatever the members decide in their areas. Why not volunteer?

Elections would be good, from the top-down...

[Nate K]

I really don't want to jump into this because I hate the title, but oh well. I am a state coordinator and I really don't understand why people are mad, except if it because we lost, I am with Littlelightshining and Pete, I don't wait around for HQ, and the meetups suck, have the entire campaign and that has nothing to do with HQ, that is just they site we had at the time.

I am right now having a state wide meeting to see where my state wants to go, if you want to do something, please please, don't wait, go do your own thing, if your state has no State Coordinator ask to be that person, if that is too big then be district or county and start having meetings, we really can't do anything until we are all on the same network site as a whole and I don't think it is so much people (except here) are mad at HQ, they just went back to whatever they were doing after Dr. Paul lost.

I guess I don't get mad at them because I am not sure how HQ can take back my neighborhood, only I can, I am in no way bashing the ideas on here or anyone that it is mad at HQ.

I just really don't understand how they make you mad, tell me what you need from them to help you to take back your area, and maybe others on here can give you ideas to use if HQ is not giving you any

what could they do? they could first start by communicating with the grassroots, that'd sure help.

If they wanted to be really helpful they could start innovating their site.. and get this, a little possibility they could implement if they were competent people.. post positions on their blog for volunteer services like a graphic designer, programmer, etc.

When you work on your area as you say you do, what exactly do you do, I'd love to hear?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Everything you said is doable now by the grassroots though in C4L. And, we wouldn't need to spend anything. I think the problem is simple. We are looking for C4L to lead the grassroots. If you get this out of your head, and lower your expectations, it is what it is. It is a tool to organize YOURSELF, giving some ideas and information to help you out.

Starting an entire new organization is rebuilding the wheel. Furthermore, it takes effort, loyalty, and without some of the capabilities of C4L. So, you and I may disagree with everything C4L has done. Didn't Ron Paul also not want to run for president? The grassroots campaigned vigorously in his stead. Now, the C4L provides a format that we can fill if we make the effort. Making a new organization does nothing C4L can't do right now.

So what do we need C4L for? - seem like the only thing we are given is voter vault (commercially rented out) access. Every thing else the Grass roots has done better before!

-t

[LittleLightShining]

I am disgusted...our coordinator hasn't done anything. He emailed me and asked me if I wanted to be involved and i said yes. Not a word since. I ended up joining another organization that is forming locally...at least they are having meetings and handing out pocket constitutions. I just got weary of trying to rally the c4L leader here. tonesSo email him again with some ideas. Why are you waiting for other people to tell you what to do?

[Nate K]

I am disgusted...our coordinator hasn't done anything. He emailed me and asked me if I wanted to be involved and i said yes. Not a word since. I ended up joining another organization that is forming locally...at least they are having meetings and handing out pocket constitutions. I just got weary of trying to rally the c4L leader here. tones

please do say what organization this is?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well that and contact info - SIMPLY BECAUSE Dr. Paul's name was attached to it - that and his "blessing"....

-t

[Melissa]

what could they do? they could first start by communicating with the grassroots, that'd sure help.

If they wanted to be really helpful they could start innovating their site.. and get this, a little possibility they could implement if they were competent people.. post positions on their blog for volunteer services like a graphic designer, programmer, etc.

When you work on your area as you say you do, what exactly do you do, I'd love to hear?

Um they do communicate with grassroots, I am one, I am nobody and I am not paid just ran a meetup group, very active one, we still meet once a week, and now that I have lists from CFL of people I have been calling and emailing for a state wide meeting for people that want to help get the ball rolling here in my state and the kinds of things that we want to do that would work for my state, and what do I do, I walk in parades and pass out constitutions, I go to all my GOP meetings like a good girl, I try to talk to people there and non-republicans, and a host of other things, but right now trying to get my state up and running, please get your state going then you will see things happen.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I really don't want to jump into this because I hate the title, but oh well. I am a state coordinator and I really don't understand why people are mad, except if it because we lost, I am with Littlelightshining and Pete, I don't wait around for HQ, and the meetups suck, have the entire campaign and that has nothing to do with HQ, that is just they site we had at the time.

I am right now having a state wide meeting to see where my state wants to go, if you want to do something, please please, don't wait, go do your own thing, if your state has no State Coordinator ask to be that person, if that is too big then be district or county and start having meetings, we really can't do anything until we are all on the same network site as a whole and I don't think it is so much people (except here) are mad at HQ, they just went back to whatever they were doing after Dr. Paul lost.

I guess I don't get mad at them because I am not sure how HQ can take back my neighborhood, only I can, I am in no way bashing the ideas on here or anyone that it is mad at HQ.

I just really don't understand how they make you mad, tell me what you need from them to help you to take back your area, and maybe others on here can give you ideas to use if HQ is not giving you any

People are mad for various reasons nationwide. Basically it boils down to lack of transparency/accountability/communication. Because these are basically the same problem we had with the PCC, there is a lack of trust in leadership. I think a decent start would be a proper airing of what went right and wrong with the election efforts...

[Nate K]

Um they do communicate with grassroots, I am one, I am nobody and I am not paid just ran a meetup group, very active one, we still meet once a week, and now that I have lists from CFL of people I have been calling and emailing for a state wide meeting for people that want to help get the ball rolling here in my state and the kinds of things that we want to do that would work for my state, and what do I do, I walk in parades and pass out constitutions, I go to all my GOP meetings like a good girl, I try to talk to people there and non-republicans, and a host of other things, but right now trying to get my state up and running, please get your state going then you will see things happen.

Ok well for one thing I doubt I can get promoted to state coordinator, let alone district coordinator. That'd be great if i was, even though I'm 18 without a license and in poverty.

Are you saying you're a staffer, so you can take advice i'll give you and pass it on to fellow staffers?

[Melissa]

People are mad for various reasons nationwide. Basically it boils down to lack of transparency/accountability/communication. Because these are basically the same problem we had with the PCC, there is a lack of trust in leadership. I think a decent start would be a proper airing of what went right and wrong with the election efforts...

again don't take this wrong but first does anyone really know what went right and what was wrong, I am not sure how they would answer that does anyone really know, it would all be guesses of what was good and what was bad and then I guess I don't look at it like that because how is airing all that going to help me take back my area right now, only like minded people can do that and what the CFL does offer is other people in your area to communicate with.

[LittleLightShining]

We can rehash the presidential campaign or we can get on with it.

From my conversation with Debbie I gathered that this is supposed to be very different than the PCC. The only reason why it's top down right now is because they want to make sure that people have the ability to have a say in who their state coordinators are. If you show (not you personally) some initiative the sooner things in your state will take off and the sooner members can have a direct influence on their own state leadership. From there on it's a matter of using the tools they give us.

This IS for the grassroots.

[Pete]

I could care less about the materials, that's not the only things they offer. The most important thing is coordination and communication with locals. There is absolutely no incentive right now for anyone to log on after they first joined, I know this because I've emailed all the people in my area, 90% never come back on.

I support C4L developing books, articles, pamphlets, and training courses. These things can be economical for us to use and raise the public profile of the organization. No harm in that.

The coordination and communication stuff is pretty good. It's very easy to communicate with contacts, make friends in other areas, etc. The voter database will be awesome, I think. It should be online in January.

[ronpaulhawaii]

again don't take this wrong but first does anyone really know what went right and what was wrong, I am not sure how they would answer that does anyone really know, it would all be guesses of what was good and what was bad and then I guess I don't look at it like that because how is airing all that going to help me take back my area right now, only like minded people can do that and what the CFL does offer is other people in your area to communicate with.


Can you name one professional orgaization that does not do post effort reviews? The problems were widespread.

For starters, the media blackout was multiplied by incompetance and rudeness.

Secondly, the excuses made by HQ for various complaints were unacceptable. Again, a sign of incompetance

[Nate K]

I support C4L developing books, articles, pamphlets, and training courses. These things can be economical for us to use and raise the public profile of the organization. No harm in that.

The coordination and communication stuff is pretty good. It's very easy to communicate with contacts, make friends in other areas, etc. The voter database will be awesome, I think. It should be online in January.

what is it? not that i'm the least bit excited for it.

[LittleLightShining]

Ok well for one thing I doubt I can get promoted to state coordinator, let alone district coordinator. That'd be great if i was, even though I'm 18 without a license and in poverty.

Are you saying you're a staffer, so you can take advice i'll give you and pass it on to fellow staffers?Nate, the only thing limiting your participation is yourself. You obviously have the internet and time to post on a message board. Take some time to send out emails to people.

This is what I've been sending to people on the C4L site already:


I'm trying to touch base with everyone and fill them in on what we've been doing and what we plan to work towards here in Vermont. Please add me as a contact (LittleLightShining) on the C4L website and be sure to check in often to see what's happening. It's important that you sign in to the site and set up a profile and sign up as a precinct leader.

So far we have had one organizational meeting. We had about 17 people from all over VT meet here in Barre to discuss a convention of sorts to be held in Montpelier at the State House on Jan. 24, 2009. Another meeting is planned for December 14 at LACE in Barre. The meeting will begin at 2:30 and end at 4 though folks are welcome to come early and mingle.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact me via email, through the C4L website or by phone 555-5555.

I look forward to working with you towards our common goals of respect for the Constitution, liberty and freedom.

This is what I'm sending to contacts I've gathered from defunct meetup groups and others who were involved with the presidential campaign:


Have you signed up for the C4L yet? We are starting to get organized and are in the process of reaching out to folks who were active in the Ron Paul presidential campaign.

So far we have had one organizational meeting. We had about 17 people from all over VT meet here in Barre to discuss a convention of sorts to be held in Montpelier at the State House on Jan. 24, 2009. Another meeting is planned for December 14 at LACE in Barre. The meeting will begin at 2:30 and end at 4 though folks are welcome to come early and mingle.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact me via email, through the C4L website(LittleLightShining) or by phone 555-5555.

I look forward to working with you towards our common goals of respect for the Constitution, liberty and freedom.

Feel free to use the form if you want.

[Melissa]

Ok well for one thing I doubt I can get promoted to state coordinator, let alone district coordinator. That'd be great if i was, even though I'm 18 without a license and in poverty.

Are you saying you're a staffer, so you can take advice i'll give you and pass it on to fellow staffers?

No I am not a staffer. I can try to pass things on, but then if I say that and don't like how you wrote something (as in more negative then I am and don't want it sent with my name), then do I get yelled out for not passing it on. Not sure but if it is a good idea I will try to get it to someone.

As far as promoted see whats open in your state almost all of the State Coordinators are volunteers and have not met one yet that does not want help. these are all interim positions too, we are just trying to get our states up and running so help with yours. There is no promotion, people that want to help can and those that don't.. don't.

and again I will hate myself for saying this but the above about 18 and poverty is where you lost me. I have no money either, My Fiance works 2 jobs to keep us going and I am 9 months pregnant, so either I am cranky from hormones or now I just think you are trying to say why you can't help, then don't yell about others if you are not helping

[Nate K]

You must've missed the post where I mentioned I contacted most of the people in my area, 90% never respond because they never log in. I wonder why?

[ronpaulhawaii]

I spend way to much time on the road to be a PL, does that mean I will not be able to fully help/have access to all the tools?

[Pete]

Ok well for one thing I doubt I can get promoted to state coordinator, let alone district coordinator. That'd be great if i was, even though I'm 18 without a license and in poverty.

Are you saying you're a staffer, so you can take advice i'll give you and pass it on to fellow staffers?

It is possible to have multiple coordinators at every level, and you can promote people up to your level so that you can share the data and work together. My state has two state coordinators, and multiples here and there in the counties and districts.

In other words, it wouldn't be like being stuck with a responsibility. You do what you can. Keyboard and phone recruiting would be very useful right now.

[Melissa]

I spend way to much time on the road to be a PL, does that mean I will not be able to fully help/have access to all the tools?

Not at all, do you have a phone or email, if you are not at home then you can use these other methods to get people in your area motivated, if you don't have phone or email, then might be harder, but there are some states that have more then one in a district or county or even state helping, find someone in your area and maybe you can split the task for now

Melissa

[Nate K]

No I am not a staffer. I can try to pass things on, but then if I say that and don't like how you wrote something (as in more negative then I am and don't want it sent with my name), then do I get yelled out for not passing it on. Not sure but if it is a good idea I will try to get it to someone.

As far as promoted see whats open in your state almost all of the State Coordinators are volunteers and have not met one yet that does not want help. these are all interim positions too, we are just trying to get our states up and running so help with yours. There is no promotion, people that want to help can and those that don't.. don't.

and again I will hate myself for saying this but the above about 18 and poverty is where you lost me. I have no money either, My Fiance works 2 jobs to keep us going and I am 9 months pregnant, so either I am cranky from hormones or now I just think you are trying to say why you can't help, then don't yell about others if you are not helping

Yep.. you're cranky from hormones then.. I'm pretty sure I didn't make any excuse as to why I can't help, I was illustrating who they would be making their coordinator. Do they want an 18 year old as state coordinator? If so then I'll be glad to do it.

[Nate K]

And what's with the "interim" only temporary until they "get the state up" at what point is a state "up"?

[LittleLightShining]

You must've missed the post where I mentioned I contacted most of the people in my area, 90% never respond because they never log in. I wonder why?Ok, refresh my memory so I can help you. Do you have a state coordinator yet? If yes contact him/her and offer to help with contacting those folks outside of the C4L site. The interim state coordinator has access to this info.

If you don't have a state coordinator call HQ and ask them how to get the contact info for people. Do you know anyone in your state or district or county that was active in the PCC that you could nominate? If not nominate yourself BUT stop being so negative or no one will give you a position.

[ronpaulhawaii]

After we hash this out, and if people help summerize it. I can/will pass it on...

[Melissa]

Yep.. you're cranky from hormones then.. I'm pretty sure I didn't make any excuse as to why I can't help, I was illustrating who they would be making their coordinator. Do they want an 18 year old as coordinator? If so then I'll be glad to do it.

No I am not cranky at all, I was trying to help you out, you did make excuse said you were 18 and poverty, and no one I have met cares about age in any role, some of my groups around the state have put the young ones up in Leadership positions because they hope those are the future leaders.

But since I hate arguing lets start with what state are you in and we will get you helping them out

[Melissa]

And what's with the "interim" only temporary until they "get the state up" at what point is a state "up"?

When we can get a state charter and then each state can make their own bylaws and organization and elect leaders. We can't have a state charter with just me so the best thing to do now is get everyone together you can and start getting PL leaders then go for a state charter

[Pete]

I spend way to much time on the road to be a PL, does that mean I will not be able to fully help/have access to all the tools?

I forget what the time investment for a PL is supposed to be. Four hours per month? As I mentioned to Nate, you can co-PL a precinct, or step down if it's too much.

Even registered members (no $35) can help by becoming issues experts, reporting on community events, etc. You'd see other members in your area, but have no access to voter lists.

[Nate K]

Ok, refresh my memory so I can help you. Do you have a state coordinator yet? If yes contact him/her and offer to help with contacting those folks outside of the C4L site. The interim state coordinator has access to this info.

If you don't have a state coordinator call HQ and ask them how to get the contact info for people. Do you know anyone in your state or district or county that was active in the PCC that you could nominate? If not nominate yourself BUT stop being so negative or no one will give you a position.


No I am not cranky at all, I was trying to help you out, you did make excuse said you were 18 and poverty, and no one I have met cares about age in any role, some of my groups around the state have put the young ones up in Leadership positions because they hope those are the future leaders.

But since I hate arguing lets start with what state are you in and we will get you helping them out



As I said (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=170200) our state coordinator hasn't logged on in 10 days. I live in PA. He was nominated a few weeks ago, made some hopeful message, then basically faded away. Very promising.

Oh and melissa, they'll make me a state coordinator? What will be my tasks?

[Nate K]

When we can get a state charter and then each state can make their own bylaws and organization and elect leaders. We can't have a state charter with just me so the best thing to do now is get everyone together you can and start getting PL leaders then go for a state charter

Nvm state chapter, read the 'states' section. I don't doubt you'll take this as another excuse but here is their description for coordinators, "Interim Coordinators are chosen based upon previous leadership experience and the ability to encourage and train others, while being good stewards of the liberty movement, being respectful of others and acting in a professional manner."

Never had any leadership experience.

[Melissa]

As I said (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=170200) our state coordinator hasn't logged on in 10 days. I live in PA. He was nominated a few weeks ago, made some hopeful message, then basically faded away. Very promising.

Oh and melissa, they'll make me a state coordinator? What will be my tasks?

Well if you have one not sure if they would make you one but you sure can ask to help or be a co-coordinator to help or a district or county, or really the goal is to be a PL the rest are just to me organizers. and they leave it up to the states right now your duties are whatever you want them to be. I am having a state wide meeting to get us all on the same page again. The meetup groups have been our main source for communication and they really bite because they are so limited.

I already have about 40 people that RSVP to come to the state meeting and this is to get people in place with thier skills so we know where people are and what they can do to help the freedom movement in my state

That is why I don't get mad at HQ, they can never tell me who and what talent I have in my own state, I am going looking for it and as I said I mainly feel that I am a organizer right now so going to try to get these people together to find out how and in what ways my state wants to use thier talents

[LittleLightShining]

As I said (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=170200) our state coordinator hasn't logged on in 10 days. I live in PA. He was nominated a few weeks ago, made some hopeful message, then basically faded away. Very promising.

Oh and melissa, they'll make me a state coordinator? What will be my tasks?
His number is right there on the state page. Why don't you call him?

ALSO, fadestyle is superactive on the C4L site. Why don't you contact him?

[Nate K]

Well if you have one not sure if they would make you one but you sure can ask to help or be a co-coordinator to help or a district or county, or really the goal is to be a PL the rest are just to me organizers. and they leave it up to the states right now your duties are whatever you want them to be. I am having a state wide meeting to get us all on the same page again. The meetup groups have been our main source for communication and they really bite because they are so limited.

I already have about 40 people that RSVP to come to the state meeting and this is to get people in place with thier skills so we know where people are and what they can do to help the freedom movement in my state

That is why I don't get mad at HQ, they can never tell me who and what talent I have in my own state, I am going looking for it and as I said I mainly feel that I am a organizer right now so going to try to get these people together to find out how and in what ways my state wants to use thier talents

wouldn't it be nice if the staff at CFL would set a number of precinct leaders needed to open a state chapter so we're not all guessing?

[Melissa]

And what is a state charter?

Umm, have you been part of the GOP or RLC or any other group that has a national org then they have state charters, same idea, but how do you charter a state if it is only me. Would not look good for all my ideas to win if no one else was even there to vote, so we get like minded people together (the message), then you ask national for state charter, to use name and copyright, and if all of that is not for you, the join JBS or GOP or RLC or LP or just make up flyers for your area, many many ways to help and if CFL is not for you, I would gladly respect that, but it is a way for some of us to get in contact with the people in our state since we all agree local govt is better, trying to get that done then will coordinate with the other states (I hope) on Federal issues.

[LittleLightShining]

wouldn't it be nice if the staff at CFL would set a number of precinct leaders needed to open a state chapter so we're not all guessing?This I totally agree with.

[Melissa]

wouldn't it be nice if the staff at CFL would set a number of precinct leaders needed to open a state chapter so we're not all guessing?

This has been talked about but the different states would lose, if the number is 100, then CA would maybe have no problems and Maine might not ever get one. So there is no magic number see what is going on in your state if there is lots ask how to get your state chartered and if there are not many PL's then get it going so you can get a state charter

[Melissa]

Nvm state chapter, read the 'states' section. I don't doubt you'll take this as another excuse but here is their description for coordinators, "Interim Coordinators are chosen based upon previous leadership experience and the ability to encourage and train others, while being good stewards of the liberty movement, being respectful of others and acting in a professional manner."

Never had any leadership experience.

Me neither, I called them during the primaires told them what I was doing in my state and that was that. Then since I did that they called me asking if I would be the Interim SC, so you have to start somewhere, go get them and be a county coordinator, see what happens

[Nate K]

Umm, have you been part of the GOP or RLC or any other group that has a national org then they have state charters, same idea, but how do you charter a state if it is only me. Would not look good for all my ideas to win if no one else was even there to vote, so we get like minded people together (the message), then you ask national for state charter, to use name and copyright, and if all of that is not for you, the join JBS or GOP or RLC or LP or just make up flyers for your area, many many ways to help and if CFL is not for you, I would gladly respect that, but it is a way for some of us to get in contact with the people in our state since we all agree local govt is better, trying to get that done then will coordinate with the other states (I hope) on Federal issues.

I still don't get it. What exactly IS a state charter, does it have some advantage? Why doesn't the CFL charter every state?

[Melissa]

I still don't get it. What exactly IS a state charter, does it have some advantage? Why doesn't the CFL charter every state?

You want nationals to tell you how to run your state. Think of the GOP, they have national and then national rules, then we all had state parties and state rules, that is why some states have primaries and some have Caucasus (excuse spelling), you sure don't want nationals making all the rules for all 50 state, no one in this movement would like that, but you can't have a charter until you get people involved so you can make your state rules and elections

[ronpaulhawaii]

This has been talked about but the different states would lose, if the number is 100, then CA would maybe have no problems and Maine might not ever get one. So there is no magic number see what is going on in your state if there is lots ask how to get your state chartered and if there are not many PL's then get it going so you can get a state charter

ISTM they would just have to set a % of precincts which pre-exist. Then the SC could just do some math...

[Pete]

Yep.. you're cranky from hormones then.. I'm pretty sure I didn't make any excuse as to why I can't help, I was illustrating who they would be making their coordinator. Do they want an 18 year old as state coordinator? If so then I'll be glad to do it.

Or you could be a district coordinator. There's one DC in my state who's very helpful with the computer stuff state-wide and is very valuable for everybody.

[Pete]

wouldn't it be nice if the staff at CFL would set a number of precinct leaders needed to open a state chapter so we're not all guessing?

I know the state coordinators have the numbers, but haven't asked! I'm more interested in the metro area at this time.

[Melissa]

ISTM they would just have to set a % of precincts which pre-exist. Then the SC could just do some math...

They talked about this too, but again it would have problems let say it is 20 percent like my state Indiana I have over 5000 precincts but there is tons of rural areas, but I might have the major cities doing well, but does not add up to 20 what do I do. This really has been batted around not sure of the answer but for now it is let us get people moving then see where everyone is, then we know what areas we need or not for now

[Melissa]

I know the state coordinators have the numbers, but haven't asked! I'm more interested in the metro area at this time.

There is no number, it has been discussed to do percent or just a number, it has been hard to pick what would be the best way, so no number is set at this time (that I know of), again just find out who is around and getting people off the meetups and on too CFL so we can get our numbers up, my meetup group is trying to switch now, we just paid for 6 more months on meetup then we hope we can switch everyone by then

[Nate K]

Think I understand the charter.. Oh btw I just read the store is coming out Dec. 2nd. Maybe i'll give them a second chance..

Well.. I have some pretty fundamental ideas I want to get passed on to the staff at CFL. If they ignore it, I won't pay dues for any privilege..

It is simply this which I've already hinted on:

They need to have positions open, a whole nother section not just a blog post, for people to volunteer their services. They need web designers, programmers, and representatives to connect with these forums - I see no reason why they couldn't allow this feature, it cost no money and I guarantee people would rather donate their services than money in a time of economic uncertainty.

[ronpaulhawaii]

They talked about this too, but again it would have problems let say it is 20 percent like my state Indiana I have over 5000 precincts but there is tons of rural areas, but I might have the major cities doing well, but does not add up to 20 what do I do. This really has been batted around not sure of the answer but for now it is let us get people moving then see where everyone is, then we know what areas we need or not for now

So we wait until every state is up to speed before moving on? What is wrong with setting a percentage so that states which meet it can move on, while those who don't continue doing what they are doing now?

[Melissa]

Think I understand the charter.. Oh btw I just read the store is coming out Dec. 2nd. Maybe i'll give them a second chance..


Please do this

[Melissa]

So we wait until every state is up to speed before moving on? What is wrong with setting a percentage so that states which meet it can move on, while those who don't continue doing what they are doing now?

No not at all that is what they are doing just without a number if your state is ready go for it. Mine is having thier first state meeting on the 6th so we are not ready but if yours is go for it.

[free.alive]

Small staff trying to build a National Organization. While I'm inherently opposed to large organizations, I understand their task is immense.

[Nate K]

Please do this

no comment on my advice?

[Melissa]

no comment on my advice?

Had to go back and read and no I have no comment, I have nothing to do with any of that. Post on your blog in CFL and you can link it to here or otherway around. I am not a tech at all, Just an organizer

[ronpaulhawaii]

I just got this in my inbox


On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Andrew Ward wrote:

How are you? This is Andrew Ward. .

I've been designated Director of Outreach, and immediately thought of you.

I'm hoping to be the grassroots' go-to person for questions and answers about CFL and how we can help the movement.

I'm really hoping to accommodate as many people as possible and was looking for a few pointers.

I'll be posting on RPF here after Thanksgiving and was hoping you could help in some way with that.
I worked with Andrew in NC and we had very good discussions on issues of transparency/accountability/communications. I just got off the phone with him and he is on a working vacation visiting family for the holidays. He may get a chance to stop in before what is mentioned above, but I am going to ask you all to start thinking of positive ways we can move forward, so that when this communication channel opens we can make the best use of it.

Onward and forward

:)

[Melissa]

I just got this in my inbox

I worked with Andrew in NC and we had very good discussions on issues of transparency/accountability/communications. I just got off the phone with him and he is on a working vacation visiting family for the holidays. He may get a chance to stop in before what is mentioned above, but I am going to ask you all to start thinking of positive ways we can move forward, so that when this communication channel opens we can make the best use of it.

Onward and forward

:)

This is wonderful news thanks for the update

[LittleLightShining]

I just got this in my inbox

I worked with Andrew in NC and we had very good discussions on issues of transparency/accountability/communications. I just got off the phone with him and he is on a working vacation visiting family for the holidays. He may get a chance to stop in before what is mentioned above, but I am going to ask you all to start thinking of positive ways we can move forward, so that when this communication channel opens we can make the best use of it.

Onward and forward

:)Awesome!

[WRellim]

I have to strongly agree. It's odd how awesome Ron Paul is but the people and finances associated with him are terrible. Some of these fools oughtta figure it out how much of a mockery they're making out of him.

The main problem with incompetent people is that they do not realize they are incompetent.

Seriously, how could they?

[Nate K]

I just got this in my inbox

I worked with Andrew in NC and we had very good discussions on issues of transparency/accountability/communications. I just got off the phone with him and he is on a working vacation visiting family for the holidays. He may get a chance to stop in before what is mentioned above, but I am going to ask you all to start thinking of positive ways we can move forward, so that when this communication channel opens we can make the best use of it.

Onward and forward

:)

THANK GOD.

Wow today's the day and you're the man. I exchanged some emails with Ward before, I hope this works out. I have many ideas and will be revising them thoroughly now that I have a 4 day weekend.

I was thinking of making a complete open thread for CFL-related ideas members can all contribute to on Friday, is that good? Give people some time to eat food and family till we're back to business.

[JamesButabi]

I don't think the CFL is incompetent so much as its communication tools and structure is. I think the state and district breakdown is brilliant and allows great potential for people to find people in their area.

The only problem I have is that from there, you often have to navigate completely away from the site to accomplish anything. Its way to tedious to try and communicate with people from your state on local issues and events through the site, or garner discussion.

In my opinion (along with a majority of member) the C4L needs to implement forums when you navigate to a state that has three sections:
- Your country (For everybody to chat about broad topics like we do here)
- Your state, (to discuss statewide issues and meetups
- Your district. (for local meetups and meetings)

Allow for precinct leaders to moderate these forums.

[ronpaulhawaii]

THANK GOD.

Wow today's the day and you're the man. I exchanged some emails with Ward before, I hope this works out. I have many ideas and will be revising them thoroughly now that I have a 4 day weekend.

I was thinking of making a complete open thread for CFL-related ideas members can all contribute to on Friday, is that good? Give people some time to eat food and family till we're back to business.

Nate, I am really glad that you started this discussion. I was so busy over the last year and a half that I am just now starting to get the lay of the land. I knew these issues needed to be discussed and the timing is turning out great. I don't think we need to wait to start an open thread. What I am thinking is, also, starting a closed sticky thread in the CFL section for collecting the ideas we all like. Are there any objections to a closed thread for that purpose?

[LittleLightShining]

Nate, I am really glad that you started this discussion. I was so busy over the last year and a half that I am just know starting to get the lay of the land. I knew these issues needed to be discussed and the timing is turning out great. I don't think we need to wait to start an open thread. What I am thinking is, also, starting a closed sticky thread in the CFL section for collecting the ideas we all like. Are there any objections to a closed thread for that purpose?Good idea.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Good idea.

I propose we use a bit of Roberts Rules for this. If someone proposes an idea, we can wait for a second, call for objections, once any objections are ironed out, we move it into the closed thread...

I'm sure there are other factors I have not considered but this is a starting place...

[Pete]

Nate, I am really glad that you started this discussion. I was so busy over the last year and a half that I am just know starting to get the lay of the land. I knew these issues needed to be discussed and the timing is turning out great. I don't think we need to wait to start an open thread. What I am thinking is, also, starting a closed sticky thread in the CFL section for collecting the ideas we all like. Are there any objections to a closed thread for that purpose?

+1

I've been wondering why people aren't joining, and this thread has been great for airing grievances/reservations/apprehensions. I'm starting to feel much more hopeful.

And RPH, that's great news about your discussion with Andrew. We're nowhere without people like you and your contacts. Seriously.

[Nate K]

i have to go to work now, unless someone else makes the new thread I'll make it as soon as i'm back.

[constituent]

*YEAH!* - We have a true believer! - one that will let corruption and incompetence go on so long as the "cause" is pure...

<rolls eyes>

There is a time for REVOLT! - and that time is happening NOW!

-t

you didn't get it.... that's ok.

[RickyJ]

Just do what you can. If you don't like what the CFL has done then don't donate to them. It is just that simple. I have no opinion about them either way because I haven't even checked them out much. But I wouldn't rush to judgment about the CFL yet, they are a new organization and it takes time to get things running smoothly and build up support.

[RickyJ]

What I am thinking is, also, starting a closed sticky thread in the CFL section for collecting the ideas we all like. Are there any objections to a closed thread for that purpose?

How about an open thread for collecting ideas and a closed thread to rank the more popular ones?

[ronpaulhawaii]

How about an open thread for collecting ideas and a closed thread to rank the more popular ones?

Decent minds think alike...

;)



...
I was thinking of making a complete open thread for CFL-related ideas members can all contribute to on Friday, is that good? ...


...What I am thinking is, also, starting a closed sticky thread in the CFL section for collecting the ideas we all like. Are there any objections to a closed thread for that purpose?


I propose we use a bit of Roberts Rules for this. If someone proposes an idea, we can wait for a second, call for objections, once any objections are ironed out, we move it into the closed thread...

I'm sure there are other factors I have not considered but this is a starting place...

[MRoCkEd]

start them up now!

[Austin]

I second the motion to have a closed thread where approved ideas will be organized.

The motion has been seconded. Are there any objections?

[newyearsrevolution08]

And the CFL is fully behind this right, just making sure this will actually go somewhere with the CFL.

I think giving them actual POSITIVE reinforcement and ideas is a great thing and should get moving.

The only thing that bothers me is that we did this MONTHS ago, coming up with "what the cfl" should do and how things should be done. After all of those threads they did infact take some suggestions but left many aside.

Now what will make these ideas different then all the previous cfl suggestions?

Don't we have the old threads somewhere with a ton of ideas already? And didn't we also email the hell out of the cfl with additional suggestions?

Just wondering where all those ideas went and if so, why not run through those and take out the ones that the assumed majority doesn't care for.

I want the cfl to move forward in whatever form they decide but asking for grassroots ideas is the best thing for them to do. It just feels like we have already gone through this exercise before.

[ronpaulhawaii]

And the CFL is fully behind this right, just making sure this will actually go somewhere with the CFL.

I think giving them actual POSITIVE reinforcement and ideas is a great thing and should get moving.

The only thing that bothers me is that we did this MONTHS ago, coming up with "what the cfl" should do and how things should be done. After all of those threads they did infact take some suggestions but left many aside.

Now what will make these ideas different then all the previous cfl suggestions?

Don't we have the old threads somewhere with a ton of ideas already? And didn't we also email the hell out of the cfl with additional suggestions?

Just wondering where all those ideas went and if so, why not run through those and take out the ones that the assumed majority doesn't care for.

I want the cfl to move forward in whatever form they decide but asking for grassroots ideas is the best thing for them to do. It just feels like we have already gone through this exercise before.

I understand and agree with your concerns. Two things in our favor is that the new Dir of Outreach is a friend of mine who I have worked with and argued this stuff with, and that he contacted me today, serendipitously, about these issues. He knows exactly how I feel and I trust that he will be more receptive. I know for a fact that his primary concern is helping us all achieve our common goals.

Yes, I know these issues have been discussed and I hope someone can go through the older threads and dig up the better ideas.

I gotta run...

onward and forward...

:)

[devil21]

Nothing to add to the subject but I always get a chuckle out of posts attacking others competency with misspelled words and typos in the subject.

/spellingnazi

[Nate K]

Nothing to add to the subject but I always get a chuckle out of posts attacking others competency with misspelled words and typos in the subject.

/spellingnazi

17 pages and you're the first to catch that.. I made it pretty far..


Edit*- CFL thread already up

[tonesforjonesbones]

There is a lot of activity surrounding Ron Paul and his supporters on that new rebuild the party website. tones

[newyearsrevolution08]

There is a lot of activity surrounding Ron Paul and his supporters on that new rebuild the party website. tones

Sweet, I do think there are plenty of organizations and groups online and offline that could all network together and become much more effective.

So, like said above or previously in this thread, making sure that all of the various online "hang out spots" all congregate around the cfl in one form or another. Or if anything at least make sure to acknowledge the various places.

One thing that has happened lately is a drop in effort BUT I do see it building back up again. I think we all needed a break and we have a long fight ahead of us.

Maybe a list of the best of the best ron paul communities online and which should be listed, or just have a directory of some type to support the various ron paul websites and forums.

Either way, most people (like us) tend to stick to one website as far as our day to day. I like this forum, others like dailypaul and others like ....... well we all get it BUT each place does have a diverse crowd and an audience that MIGHT not always go to the next site.

All in all, more people to network together by bringing the various groups together.

I know we have a top sites style of website online which could odds are help with that effort.

Just a thought though.

[Nate K]

I have an idea i want to post in the other thread but fear it would turn into a discussion and get too sidetracked so i'll ask the root question here.

Why is the CFL a non-profit organization? This screws up fund raising majorly. (the type you get through ads)

[Pete]

I have an idea i want to post in the other thread but fear it would turn into a discussion and get too sidetracked so i'll ask the root question here.

Why is the CFL a non-profit organization? This screws up fund raising majorly. (the type you get through ads)

Not-for-profits are the ONLY kinds of entities that can take donations. Chartering not-for-profits is governed by state law, but the tax exemption rules are controlled by the IRS. Picking the type of exemption to have involves a bunch of trade-offs concerning limitations on your activities and/or donations. CFL is a 501(c)(4) organization. You can look up this classification and see the particulars here:

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf

[tangent4ronpaul]

You must've missed the post where I mentioned I contacted most of the people in my area, 90% never respond because they never log in. I wonder why?

If your only way to contact them is via the C4L site - that is following the Meetup model which was and is a *MAJOR* problem. It's only function is to create a monopoly. Unlike Meetup, it sounds like messages are not forwarded through them to e-mail - making the system almost completely useless.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

I spend way to much time on the road to be a PL, does that mean I will not be able to fully help/have access to all the tools?

It means you could be one of the most useful people in the movement if that travel were looked at as a positive thing. Instead this model is based on static locations, not taking into account dynamic conditions like yours.

If you drive, you could enable larger production runs on material at lower cost and be the distribution person. If you fly all over you could be a trainer or network states and regions. If you have specific technical skills or could pick them up, you could do things like set up local databases or build robo-callers.

A nomadic person can be invaluable!

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Think I understand the charter.. Oh btw I just read the store is coming out Dec. 2nd. Maybe i'll give them a second chance..

Well.. I have some pretty fundamental ideas I want to get passed on to the staff at CFL. If they ignore it, I won't pay dues for any privilege..

It is simply this which I've already hinted on:

They need to have positions open, a whole nother section not just a blog post, for people to volunteer their services. They need web designers, programmers, and representatives to connect with these forums - I see no reason why they couldn't allow this feature, it cost no money and I guarantee people would rather donate their services than money in a time of economic uncertainty.

http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Skills_Bank

and that isn't limited to CFL - like it would be if they re-invented the wheel and did it.

but yes, it was pointed out to them before that some people have time and or skills and no money - but they went ahead with the $35 thing anyway. There was a lot of objection to it.

One huge problem with the CFL is hat they are running it like a for profit business. If they focused on making it as open as possible for everyone and had were transparent and accountable - letting those who want to help out do so and actually produced results on a regular basis - well, then money would come - LOTS of money via donations! - but that's a performance based approach - and CFL isn't performing. They are failing.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

All in all, more people to network together by bringing the various groups together.

I know we have a top sites style of website online which could odds are help with that effort.

Just a thought though.

http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Grassroots_Roadmap

-t

[Pete]

If your only way to contact them is via the C4L site - that is following the Meetup model which was and is a *MAJOR* problem. It's only function is to create a monopoly. Unlike Meetup, it sounds like messages are not forwarded through them to e-mail - making the system almost completely useless.

-tFull name, address, phone number (this is optional), and e-mail address are visible to the member's own coordinators, and to others based on the user's preference. There is also a internal messaging system (like PMs) by which anyone can send a message to anyone else. E-mail notification of messages would be nice, and I think it will be done. The e-mailing system is being overhauled to allow bulk mail.

If you are a coordinator, you can also download CSVs of data for members in your county/district to use offline.

There are some minor changes I'd like to see in the communications, but overall they're really quite good, head and shoulders over meetup.

[WRellim]

One huge problem with the CFL is hat they are running it like a for profit business. If they focused on making it as open as possible for everyone and had were transparent and accountable - letting those who want to help out do so and actually produced results on a regular basis - well, then money would come - LOTS of money via donations! - but that's a performance based approach - and CFL isn't performing. They are failing.

-t


Nah, they are NOT running it like a for profit business (businesses usually have goals, scrutinize past actions, try diligently to achieve results, and are very driven about satisfying customers).

I think it could be fairly argued that what they ARE running it like... is a "multi-level-marketing" operation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing). (which wouldn't be surprising as they all understudied beneath "Lew" Moore -- whose main {only?} business experience is being part of MLM's that sell quack remedies). Those MLM things are also "profitable" -- for a while (the whole thing crashes eventually) -- but the profit comes from bilking the "members" for signup fees and sales of various objects TO the members. Rather than building a business, it is all about providing a cash-flow into headquarters.

The other parallel (and purportedly "non-profit") model that they seem to be trying to emulate is that of a "TV-megachurch" (aka similar to a cult). And again, the goal of that is to preach to the "choir" and sell various trinkets and garbage to the mass membership, while providing cushy salaries (for little actual work) and various non-salary sinecures (which includes ego-stroking) for the "inner circle" while elevating some "guru" that they all worship (and rather mindlessly try to emulate).

And the blatant (and sad) truth is that -- even in trying to emulate EITHER of those models -- they are FAILING miserably. (Heck, hundreds and thousands of local "pastors" do a better job of emulating the megachurch model, and there are a lot of flim-flam artists out there that do a better job of executing the MLM model... But the jokers at CFL can't get anything right, they're a LOT more like government flunkies or university academics, FUBAR'ing everything the touch... maybe it's something in the water system of the Beltway area?)

But like a true BUSINESS? Don't make me laugh.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I have to agree with this assesment. I have long believed it to be internet marketing...sorry to say it, but it's true. tones

[Roxi]

im just curious... all of you who feel the CFL is incompentent, how many of you are there every day using the tools, and working within the site?

Im not saying that its perfect, but i have been using it, and its a good tool, it may not be as good as it can be, and YES i think there should be improvements, there are plenty of things im not happy with, but i also use it everyday and i do know its not useless

but life is what you make of it, same goes for CFL.... its up to you to get the changes made, your not going to have any credence with them if you are not active within the campaign. If there are things that you think would make it better, then by all means, do what you do, and get it going

otherwise i think you should create something better, improve what already exists, or shut up

jmo

[Nate K]

its up to you to get the changes made, your not going to have any credence with them if you are not active within the campaign. If there are things that you think would make it better, then by all means, do what you do, and get it going

otherwise i think you should create something better, improve what already exists, or shut up


that's why we thoroughly discussed with each other both sides of the issue for 18 pages and came to a positive final conclusion that will greatly change the CFL.

[WRellim]

im just curious... all of you who feel the CFL is incompentent, how many of you are there every day using the tools, and working within the site?

Im not saying that its perfect, but i have been using it, and its a good tool, it may not be as good as it can be, and YES i think there should be improvements, there are plenty of things im not happy with, but i also use it everyday and i do know its not useless

but life is what you make of it, same goes for CFL.... its up to you to get the changes made, your not going to have any credence with them if you are not active within the campaign. If there are things that you think would make it better, then by all means, do what you do, and get it going

otherwise i think you should create something better, improve what already exists, or shut up

jmo

And there it is folks... the CULT mindset begins to ossify all the way down the chain...


You're instructed to USE tools "as they are" and "as they have been given to you" (so much for innovation or creativity... those are NOT welcome... the "elite" know better than all you little peons and riff-raff).

You're supposed to DO exactly (and only) what you are TOLD to do by your superiors (so much for critical thinking).

You're required to PAY your dues and the occasional special donation, but all without KNOWING what you are really getting involved in, or having anything for a voice in what that is or how it will be run (so much for accountability, responsibility, etc).

If you disagree with anything you are supposed to SHUT UP or LEAVE (so much for free speech).


I think the cult of the CFL/CFR indoctrination program looks like it's proceeding just fine, they've (just about) weeded out everyone with a backbone and/or a brain, and have culled the crop down to sycophantic automatons.



Good luck trying to gain anything even remotely resembling "liberty" with that setup! (Heck, even the GOP and RNC are more transparent and willing to allow dissent.)

[tonesforjonesbones]

It seems that if you are not able or willing to pay them 35 dollars then you are not privvy to most of the information. That is STUPID. How many GREAT footsoldiers are they missing because they either don't have the 35 bucks or don't WANT to pay them 35 bucks. So...they must not want it that bad. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

RIGhton Rellim...absolutely! Now you know free speech is fine as long as you agree with the listener lol. tones

[mediahasyou]

stop being lazy communists and waiting around for the CFL.

[Nate K]

stop being lazy communists and waiting around for the CFL.

Is everyone you disagree with a communist or are you just too lazy to come up with a better insult?

[silverhandorder]

I am not very active on CFL, that is my fault not the fault of the organizers. They provide you blogs and communication. You have no one else to blame but yourself. If you don't want to pay that is fine, you can still function and participate in your district without paying.

Over all I enjoy their main blog and the news items they have on the side. If you don't like it then join the organization and change it. If you don't want to do that then make your own.

Sometimes people here are making too much fuss over nothing. This is time right after election if you looked around no one cares anymore. Even Ron Paul supporters need a break. The fact that CFL is not pushing anything hardcore is a good thing. Not everyone supports every single thing CFL stands for. Many people might be turned away. Right now they are building organization and numbers.

Most importantly remember everything is voluntary.

It seems that if you are not able or willing to pay them 35 dollars then you are not privvy to most of the information. That is STUPID. How many GREAT footsoldiers are they missing because they either don't have the 35 bucks or don't WANT to pay them 35 bucks. So...they must not want it that bad. tones

You are ignorant of the things you talk about. I pay 35$ and there is not much that is gained over the non due paying members. The material they offer for the precinct leaders is well worth the 35$. Anyone who is serious about being a precinct leader will need way more then 35$ to be any good. The time you put in alone is worth thousands.

[Austin]

I am not very active on CFL, that is my fault not the fault of the organizers. They provide you blogs and communication. You have no one else to blame but yourself. If you don't want to pay that is fine, you can still function and participate in your district without paying.

Over all I enjoy their main blog and the news items they have on the side. If you don't like it then join the organization and change it. If you don't want to do that then make your own.

Sometimes people here are making too much fuss over nothing. This is time right after election if you looked around no one cares anymore. Even Ron Paul supporters need a break. The fact that CFL is not pushing anything hardcore is a good thing. Not everyone supports every single thing CFL stands for. Many people might be turned away. Right now they are building organization and numbers.

Most importantly remember everything is voluntary.


You are ignorant of the things you talk about. I pay 35$ and there is not much that is gained over the non due paying members. The material they offer for the precinct leaders is well worth the 35$. Anyone who is serious about being a precinct leader will need way more then 35$ to be any good. The time you put in alone is worth thousands.

wait wot?

;)

[silverhandorder]

wait wot?

;)

That means you dont have to feel bad for joining for free.