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Tuck
09-09-2007, 01:13 PM
Does anybody else see a big opening here? Ron Paul is the only one who has called the repeal Roe vs. Wade, he is the constitutional man in congress and is in strong favor of states rights. We need to contact these groups asap and make them aware of Ron Paul's stances on the issues.

http://www.lc.org/
http://www.sbc.net/
http://www.nae.net/
http://www.afa.net/
http://www.family.org/
http://www.ouramericanvalues.org/
http://www.visionamerica.us/


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070909/ap_po/thompson_evangelicals



Prominent evangelical leaders who spent the summer hoping Fred Thompson would emerge as their favored Republican presidential contender are having doubts as he begins his long-teased campaign.

For social conservatives dissatisfied with other GOP choices, the "Law & Order" actor and former Tennessee senator represents a Ronald Reagan-like figure, someone they hope will agree with them on issues and stands a chance of winning.

But Thompson's less-than-clear stance on a federal gay marriage amendment and his delay in entering the race are partly responsible for a sudden shyness among leading evangelicals.

"A month or two ago, I sensed there was some urgency for people to make a move and find a candidate," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a Washington-based conservative Christian group. "Right now, I think people are stepping back a little and watching. The field is still very fluid."

A loose network of influential evangelical leaders known as the Arlington Group met privately Wednesday and Thursday in Washington to discuss presidential politics and other issues, participants said.

Although the group does not endorse candidates, individual members have done so in the past, and one of the organization's founding principles is to get the movement's leaders on the same page when possible.

Some in the meeting shared their presidential leanings, but the consensus was that more time is needed to gauge Thompson's performance, according to a participant.

A clearer picture may develop Oct. 19-21 during a "Values Voter Summit" in Washington that will include a presidential straw poll.

In June, Thompson met privately with several Arlington Group members, many of whom are uncomfortable with the GOP top tier for various reasons: Arizona Sen. John McCain for championing campaign-finance overhaul and labeling some evangelical figures "agents of intolerance"; former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani for backing abortion rights and gay rights; and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney for his social-issue policy reversals and for some members his Mormon faith.

With the post-Labor Day primary push under way, the 65-year-old Thompson faces a crucial month to prove he is the best alternative for a key GOP constituency.

"He's got a real opportunity to be the most credible conservative candidate across the board," said Gary Bauer, a one-time presidential aspirant who heads the advocacy group American Values. "Whether he can put it all together remains to be seen. But he's got a real chance to emerge as the major conservative alternative to Giuliani."

Others are skeptical about whether Thompson can fill that role.

Rick Scarborough, a Southern Baptist preacher and president of Texas-based Vision America, said that while he is encouraged by Thompson's strong voting record in the Senate against abortion, he questioned the candidate's commitment to social issues.

"The problem I'm having is that I don't see any blood trail," Scarborough said. "When you really take a stand on issues dear to the heart of social conservatives, you're going to shed some blood in the process. And so far, Fred Thompson's political career has been wrinkle-free."

Thompson's long-delayed entry is another concern, Scarborough said. "The hesitancy has made us wonder whether he has the stomach for what it's going to take," he said.

Earlier this summer, doubts crept in following reports on Thompson's role in crafting campaign finance reform and stories that he lobbied for an abortion rights group.

More recently, Thompson has come under scrutiny for his position on a constitutional amendment on gay marriage, a defining issue for the Christian right.


Thompson told CNN in August that he supports an amendment that would prohibit states from imposing their gay marriage laws on other states. That falls well short of what evangelical leaders want: an amendment that would bar gay marriage nationwide.

Thompson's position surprised evangelical leaders who say they met with him in June and came away thinking he shared their desire for a more sweeping constitutional change. Now, they wonder if he is flip-flopping.

One person in attendance Mathew Staver of the Liberty Counsel, a Florida-based conservative legal group said Thompson described going back and forth about the merits of an amendment prohibiting gay marriage nationwide.

"At one time, he said he was against it," Staver said. "Then he said in June he was for it. So if now he's saying he's against it, to me that's a double-minded person. And that would be a real concern for religious conservatives."

Messages left with Thompson campaign were not returned.

Several Christian right leaders said opposition to a broad amendment would hurt Thompson with evangelicals, but not necessarily cause irreparable harm. Others played down the issue, pointing out that their favored approach was politically impossible anyway because Democrats control the House and Senate.

Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said Thompson's position is consistent with the former senator's support for limited federal government and giving power to the states.

Land said it is healthy that expectations for Thompson have diminished from unrealistic levels and he does not think evangelical excitement has dimmed for a man he described as a "masterful retail politician."

Many evangelical leaders said one of Thompson's biggest draws is his perceived electability. Some are watching whether former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a former Baptist minister, can build on his second place finish last month in the Iowa straw poll.

Tim Wildmon, president of the Tupelo, Miss.-based American Family Association, said that while he likes Huckabee, Thompson's better name recognition and fundraising potential is a strong draw for evangelicals.

"This is a dilemma a lot of people have," Wildmon said. "They want to support the candidate that most reflects their values. "But at the same time, you have to balance that against finding someone who can actually win."

james1906
09-09-2007, 01:15 PM
He's flopped so fast, you'd think he's Ben Affleck.

Michael Ingram
09-09-2007, 01:17 PM
RP isn't for a gay marriage, ban though, at least I don't think he is

james1906
09-09-2007, 01:19 PM
RP isn't for a gay marriage, ban though, at least I don't think he is

He believes it is a state issue.

Scribbler de Stebbing
09-09-2007, 01:21 PM
RP isn't for a gay marriage, ban though, at least I don't think he is

You're probably right. But he also didn't lobby the government for taxpayer-funded abortions or ram anti-first amendment "campaign finance reform" through the Senate.

Shink
09-09-2007, 01:22 PM
"This is a dilemma a lot of people have," Wildmon said. "They want to support the candidate that most reflects their values. "But at the same time, you have to balance that against finding someone who can actually win."

That's the big thing I saw. Yes, those Christians out there NEED to see Ron's Statement of Faith. But more importantly, it appears many realize they DO support Ron Paul in theory, but think he can not win. STAPLE THE STATEMENT OF FAITH WITH THE STRAW POLL RESULTS AND DROP THEM OFF AT CHURCHES. http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

cac1963
09-09-2007, 01:24 PM
Does anybody else see a big opening here? Ron Paul is the only one who has called the repeal Roe vs. Wade, he is the constitutional man in congress and is in strong favor of states rights. We need to contact these groups asap and make them aware of Ron Paul's stances on the issues.

http://www.lc.org/
http://www.sbc.net/
http://www.nae.net/
http://www.afa.net/
http://www.family.org/
http://www.ouramericanvalues.org/
http://www.visionamerica.us/


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070909/ap_po/thompson_evangelicals

These people want the federal government to crack down on their definitions of immoral behavior. Anything less is a sign of weakness on these issues. These people are NOT interested in freedom and liberty the way Paul champions it. We should still reach out to these people to try to persuade them why Paul's position is right, but their goals are clearly anathema to Paul's.

MicroBalrog
09-09-2007, 01:25 PM
CBN Main Switchboard (757) 226-7000

Here's a number for all of you 'flood them with phone calls' people.

cac1963
09-09-2007, 01:25 PM
STAPLE THE STATEMENT OF FAITH WITH THE STRAW POLL RESULTS AND DROP THEM OFF AT CHURCHES. http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

Yes, that. Exactly.

MicroBalrog
09-09-2007, 01:27 PM
Don't forget that Ron Paul favors the shut-down of the DoE - just like the evangelicals.

Scribbler de Stebbing
09-09-2007, 01:33 PM
These people want the federal government to crack down on their definitions of immoral behavior. Anything less is a sign of weakness on these issues. These people are NOT interested in freedom and liberty the way Paul champions it. We should still reach out to these people to try to persuade them why Paul's position is right, but their goals are clearly anathema to Paul's.

Naw, you're reading them wrong. They do not want government interference with their religion; they don't want the government indoctrinating their kids with government's values; they DO see abortion as murder, but would be happy with the repeal of Roe v Wade and for states to handle the matter; and most of them believe in their God-given right to keep and bear arms.

So approach them on our issues in common instead of launching a drug legalization argument with them.

tmg19103
09-09-2007, 01:35 PM
Evangelicals won't go for RP because he is against the war in the MiddeleEast. Evangelicals think the war in the Middle East is the start of the end of the world and the return of Christ. They also do not want Muslims to gain control of the Holy Land that the U.S. has an interest in through Israel. Certain individual evangelicals may go for RP, but the leaders won't touch him unless they change the direction of their beliefs.

fj45lvr
09-09-2007, 01:35 PM
Ron Paul is the only one who has called the repeal Roe vs. Wade,

Are you sure about this? I can't believe some of the others like Huck don't support a repeal.

thompson while in Senate was recorded as saying that he would support no restrictions on abortion for first three months of pregnancy....This should eliminate true evangelical support if they know.

MicroBalrog
09-09-2007, 01:35 PM
It is beyond poinltess to waste effort to try and make people gree with you on ALL issues.

All you need is to persuade them on ONE issue:

That on primary day, they should vote for Ron.

Corydoras
09-09-2007, 01:39 PM
Are you sure about this? I can't believe some of the others like Huck don't support a repeal.

thompson while in Senate was recorded as saying that he would support no restrictions on abortion for first three months of pregnancy....This should eliminate true evangelical support if they know.

I thought Romney wanted RvW overturned, too.

Shink
09-09-2007, 01:39 PM
"This is a dilemma a lot of people have," Wildmon said. "They want to support the candidate that most reflects their values. "But at the same time, you have to balance that against finding someone who can actually win."

That's the big thing I saw. Yes, those Christians out there NEED to see Ron's Statement of Faith. But more importantly, it appears many realize they DO support Ron Paul in theory, but think he can not win. STAPLE THE STATEMENT OF FAITH WITH THE STRAW POLL RESULTS AND DROP THEM OFF AT CHURCHES. http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

************
Just bumping my post, I don't see how it couldn't be a winning strategy.

Tuck
09-09-2007, 01:42 PM
Are you sure about this? I can't believe some of the others like Huck don't support a repeal.

thompson while in Senate was recorded as saying that he would support no restrictions on abortion for first three months of pregnancy....This should eliminate true evangelical support if they know.

Well he is the only one who has come out and said so on a public stage, at least to my knowledge.


BTW: I know there are many people who aren't religious or disagree with what the christian right are trying to do and where they stand on issues but your NOT trying to get them the presidency your trying to get them to vote for Ron Paul. The only thing we need to worry about is allowing them to get some exposure to Ron Paul's stances on the issues.

katao
09-09-2007, 01:42 PM
These people want the federal government to crack down on their definitions of immoral behavior. Anything less is a sign of weakness on these issues. These people are NOT interested in freedom and liberty the way Paul champions it. We should still reach out to these people to try to persuade them why Paul's position is right, but their goals are clearly anathema to Paul's.


This is true, but my experience is that they can come around. Eventually they can see that legislating morality ends up being counter-productive (think alcohol prohibition, for example). But they don't respond well directly to that arguement, so states-rights is a good middle ground - help them see that the federal government isn't the best tool for their efforts since historically the feds and federal courts have not been friends but foes in the morality fight.

And Scribbler makes a great point - MOST OF ALL they want the government to quit pushing anti-religion on them.

katao
09-09-2007, 01:47 PM
Evangelicals won't go for RP because he is against the war in the MiddeleEast. Evangelicals think the war in the Middle East is the start of the end of the world and the return of Christ. They also do not want Muslims to gain control of the Holy Land that the U.S. has an interest in through Israel. Certain individual evangelicals may go for RP, but the leaders won't touch him unless they change the direction of their beliefs.

This may be true of hardcore evangelical leaders, but the average local church members down the street are far more level headed about all that.

I think the Statement of Faith and Straw Poll Results could be VERY effective for most Christians (evengelicals, catholics, protestants, Mormons, ...).

eloquensanity
09-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Naw, you're reading them wrong. They do not want government interference with their religion; they don't want the government indoctrinating their kids with government's values; they DO see abortion as murder, but would be happy with the repeal of Roe v Wade and for states to handle the matter; and most of them believe in their God-given right to keep and bear arms.

They are also against a national ID and unsecured borders,

M.Bellmore
09-09-2007, 11:36 PM
As a christian, I agree. The statement of faith and the article by Pastor Chuck Baldwin would be a great combo.

Actually, I cannot believe that the campaign isn't hitting this demographic harder. Getting an endorsement from top christian leaders would be great IMO.

cjhowe
09-10-2007, 12:17 AM
As a christian, I agree. The statement of faith and the article by Pastor Chuck Baldwin would be a great combo.

Actually, I cannot believe that the campaign isn't hitting this demographic harder. Getting an endorsement from top christian leaders would be great IMO.

In a campaign encouraging maximum freedom which requires personal responsibility, you are the campaign that should be hitting this demographic :)

M.Bellmore
09-10-2007, 06:35 AM
Alright, ya got me :o
I just wanted to make sure before I started down that path that someone isn't already doing that. I looked at this site http://christians4paul.wordpress.com/articles/ but it seems to be inactive.

LibertyEagle
09-10-2007, 07:18 AM
Statement of Faith by Ron Paul
http://www.covenantnews.com/ronpaul070721.htm
Note: Someone prettied this up a little bit. I'm not sure where it is now. Hopefully, you can find it over in Campaign Material, or just ask here in this forum.

Conservative Republicans Have Only One Choice In 2008 by Pastor Chuck Baldwin
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070828.html

ButchHowdy
09-10-2007, 08:48 AM
On Fred Thompson's Forum, I thought it was a joke but he actually believes people are defecting from Al Qaida because of their no-smoking rule:

http://fredthompsonforum.com/showthread.php?t=1102

Cowlesy
09-10-2007, 08:57 AM
On Fred Thompson's Forum, I thought it was a joke but he actually believes people are defecting from Al Qaida because of their no-smoking rule:

http://fredthompsonforum.com/showthread.php?t=1102

Those Fred Thompson supporters are almost too hardcore for me to listen to. I feel like each of them has a tomahawk cruise missile launcher and an M1A1-Abrams tank in their garage.

RP4ME
09-10-2007, 09:13 AM
I thought Romney wanted RvW overturned, too.

Yes RP IS for a repeal of Roe v Wade b/c he thinks it is s state decision. I belive I have read he is persoannly opposed to abortion seeing as he WAs a obstetrican....and feelslife begins at conception - but he isnt for a fed ban - he is for repealin roe v wade and letting states decide.....it isnt about inflicting his belifs on anyone it is about what teh consitution says - if Christians liek me can wake up and realize soem of teh junk they are being fed about the middle east we can get that vote. Christians can wake up and just like we each may have a sheeple past in politics we can see our sheepleness with our religious leaders and change ....Christians are not a lost cause for RP but it may take a fellow Christain to see this but either way regradless of you faith - reach out to them.....b/c what they see before them is probably not adding up as much as it did.

Either you respect the Consitution or you dont. Just b/c the issue is deemed to be a reliogious one - ex. abrotion or gay marriage - you have to go about it via the Constit. not by going outside that to get what you want. If Christians as a rule led lives that distinguished themsleves from the rest of the world in a poistive way..their faith says they woudl see some of the change the are seeking in our society! Unfortunately the the "christian party"of Reps. has far too many clandestine gay or sex scandals that dont give them alot of credibility......

LibertyEagle
09-10-2007, 09:14 AM
I'm hoping most of them are RP supporters in disguise. If they were real, I would be very scared.

RP4ME
09-10-2007, 09:18 AM
I think they are real and giving lip service to the Constitution and states rights - bla bla bla - look if they were RP in disguise RP would nmake them feel okay about coming out of teh closet - no, these guys are full of it.