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View Full Version : Senate nixes auto bailout...




linux
11-19-2008, 08:48 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94IAPNG0&show_article=1

gls
11-19-2008, 08:53 PM
They'll tack on another hundred billion or so worth of pork to buy the needed votes. Why wouldn't they? They got away with it last time.

linux
11-19-2008, 09:11 PM
They'll tack on another hundred billion or so worth of pork to buy the needed votes. Why wouldn't they? They got away with it last time.

+1

James Madison
11-19-2008, 09:13 PM
They'll tack on another hundred billion or so worth of pork to buy the needed votes. Why wouldn't they? They got away with it last time.

I seriously doubt this one will pass at all. Not that I'm for this bailout, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense to give the money to auto workers than it does to give the money to bankers to buy stock and throw $40 billion parties. Kinda shows ya where their interest lies, don't it?

gls
11-19-2008, 09:15 PM
I seriously doubt this one will pass at all. Not that I'm for this bailout, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense to give the money to auto workers than it does to give the money to bankers to buy stock and throw $40 billion parties.

I don't know about that, it seems to me that propping up failing business models is not only pointless but actually quite counterproductive.

James Madison
11-19-2008, 09:18 PM
I don't know about that, it seems to me that propping up failing business models is not only pointless but actually quite counterproductive.

Read my post again. I'm not for this bailout but you were a Senator and decided to give trillions to off-shore, European bankers then why wouldn't you want to give $25 billion to GM? Because they've sold us out.

hillertexas
11-19-2008, 09:38 PM
Bailout-shy lawmakers got an earful from jittery constituents last month when the House let an early version of the Wall Street rescue fail, sending the Dow Jones industrials tumbling and erasing more than a trillion dollars in retirement savings and other investments. Congress took a deep breath and reconsidered, passing the plan a few days later.

Yea...that's what happened. Riiiigggghhhtt.

cheapseats
12-05-2008, 12:58 AM
Hand-off fake.

NO! to $25 billion...so the Three Stooges are back this week asking for $34 billion.

And why wouldn't they, after NO! to $700 billion resulted in YES! to $850 billion?

Zippyjuan
12-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Just a question: If you are in favor of not bailing out the auto industry, are you also in favor of trying to keep manufacturing jobs in the US or sending them over seas? Not directed at anybody. I am still not convinced about the need to bail them out (make loans available- not handing them money). They knew for a while that people were buying fewer of their big cars but did not develop a plan for what to do in the event that sales of small trucks and SUVs dropped.

cheapseats
12-05-2008, 03:34 PM
If I already posted this, I apologize.


Our automobiles are impracticable and our housing is unaffordable but somehow...lip service to Change being exactly that, lip service...the automobile industry is the backbone of American manufacturing and housing is the backbone of the American financial markets. Nostalgic clinging to yesteryear is ratcheted to death-grip by our insistence that everyone is either too big or too small to fail.

It is not easy to spell sound effects. Yeah okay, shhhh is easy. And Hmmm, which I love when it signifies thinking and loathe when it signifies a smart-ass taunt...what do you have to HIDE that you're so worried about your telephone conversations being private, hmmm?

I have never landed on the phonics of the game show buzzer that signifies 'WRONG, so sorry, there goes your bankroll.' But that is the harsh, abrupt, damning sound that I would, if I could, honk out at Barack Obama's contention that the automobile industry is the backbone of American manufacturing.

The automobile industry WAS the backbone of American industry, no question, but I will remind us that we just finished broadcasting to the world...possibly in the manner of a boy whistling in the dark...that we are fired up about Change. I will remind us that we are meant to be cutting back and looking forward, not looking back and splurging on mop-ups.

Two Faced is another quaint old-school notion. How do thee deceive me, let me count the ways.

We can't say enough about Green.

Green is IN. Green means Go. Money is Green. So what do we propose to do? Prop up the internal combustion engine folk for one more go-round of economic stimulus. Never mind that every new old-school car will recycle through two or three or more households, as its value is driven down to the $500-1000 range.

To add insult to injury...an abidingly popular American pastime...we will disguise our inefficient old-school paradigm of one worker per car packing our streets and polluting our air (hopefully with a second recreational-type vehicle waiting for the weekend to bust a move) and assuage our consciences by drafting reams of regulations to compel better miles per gallon with lower emissions.

If we throw enough money at it, we can have it all...the American Dream.

We can't say enough about more efficient, less corrupt government.

I draw attention to the exorbitant costs of administration-heavy legislation and administration-heavy compliance that Detroit and Washington propose to saddle upon taxpayers in order to compel old policy into new packages. Time and again, Detroit has demonstrated itself to be behind the curve. Time and again, Washington has demonstrated itself to be behind the curve. Not just slow learners, situational learners...and we continue to defer to them, why?

I draw particular attention to the exorbitant legal fees that are the genesis and the resolution...the Be All and End All...of the text-heavy, bullshit-laden regulations that keep Government and quote-unquote Opposition High Flyers flying high.

We can't say enough about personal responsibility, free market enterprise, government transparency and corporate accountability, then we are positively unrestrained in bailing out the irresponsible, the inept, the corrupt and the complacent. If Survival of the Fittest is a valid theory...which intuitively it is, Intuition being happily related to Common Sense...this would be an excellent time for us to take note of how our leaders purposefully concoct expensive schemes to ensure the survival of the weakest, weakening the strong in the process presumably as a nod to egalitarianism.

Hmmm, lemme think...I think this is a very bad game plan.

We should no more bail out Detroit today than we should have bailed out Detroit back in the day. Bailing out Detroit in 1980 speaks both to Detroit needing another bailout in 2008 and to our unrelenting dependence on oil from, as John McCain never tired of saying, "people who don't like us very much."

The thinking of the Bush Administration, Congress, no small part of corporate America and now the Transition Team is not only still inside the box, it's wrapped in bubble paper and cushioned by styrofoam.

The idea was Yes We CAN, not Yes We CAR.

http://peaceandcarats.com/

cheapseats
12-05-2008, 03:42 PM
DRIVE BABY DRIVE
13 November 2008


I want to say that it was Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower's granddaughter who said it, attributing it her grandfather and our 34th president. I Like Ike, was the slogan of the time. I Like Ike, I am told, was the bona fide sentiment of the time. Anytime is the right time to slip in an excerpt from President Eisenhower's farewell address, one excerpt better than the next. Who could disagree except Warmongers, Profiteers, Heartless Bastards, Conscienceless Uber Rich, Entrenched Paper Pushers and Self-Serving Politicians?


... Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow ...

If the automobile industry is the backbone of American manufacturing and the housing industry is the backbone of American financial markets, but we will not meaningfully change the American Driving Paradigm and we will not meaningfully change the American Housing Paradigm...except to infuse them with Government Grab cash...then let us call a spade a spade and know that we aren't changing diddly squat.

Not changing diddly squat = Business As Usual.

Business As Usual = how we got into this mess.

One driver/one vehicle (finances cooperating, also an insured recreational vehicle waiting to leap into off-hour action) is NOT a sustainable paradigm.

Unsustainable paradigms are, in a word, unsustainable.

If your hands are steady and your eye is keen, you can probably hold a pencil with its point to a tabletop and balance a plate on its eraser. But you will never be able to let go of the balancing act. The pencil will never support the plate without you supporting the pencil. Plate balancing on pencil tops is not, without continuous intervention, a sustainable paradigm.

On logistics and environment alone, everyone motoring around in a private coach is not a sustainable paradigm. Then there is that pesky energy issue. Do we or do we not mean to break free of our dependence on foreign oil? Truly, truly...I know from whence I speak...America is behaving right now like an alcoholic Last Gasper, ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING FOR ANOTHER DRINK.

...All-Hood-No-Robin Henry Paulson announced that, shock of shockers, buying crappy assets will NOT solve our problems and that outright cash infusions will better do the trick. They would do the trick for me, I know that. I'll be gettin' back to Henry Paulson, HE can bank on THAT.

In the meantime, other than to meet Special Needs (including commerce) and to satisfy the Luxury Class (see attendant taxation), I really really think that we ought not to be rolling even one car off the line that isn't at least a hybrid.

As to Hank the Bank's fresh affinity for outright cash infusions, how 'bout this for the proverbial Troubled Auto Industry?

Federal, state and municipal governments buy fleets of cars for use by some of our many many many many many many many government employees, yes? Let us conduct wholesale Fleet Modification through bulk purchase (at discounted rates) of General Motors cars...think Government Mobility. Snap up their inventory, move on to Chrysler and Ford inventories before kicking GM into production of more old-school vehicles.

I will argue that Government Transportation, while not durable, DOES effectively constitute a portion of our Infrastructure. We will know that we have updated and standardized that bit of Infrastructure at X point in time at Y cost. A fresh start, as it were, with old stuff. It will ensure Z probable years without recurrence of that expense and, at the same time, reveal who/what has...how shall I put it...an irregular replacement rate.

All those people who "need" new cars but can't get financing? Even when the Fall of Rome is regularly cited as a historical perspective on our Dire Straights, we are too good to drive Second Hand? Seller financed G-Cars...get 'em while they're cheap, and drive baby drive.

Sell off our current government fleets at lively public auctions. Inexpensive but animated Community Gatherings, are these not good for morale in Trying Times? Renaissance Faire meets Rosie the Riveter...

http://peaceandcarats.com/

cheapseats
12-05-2008, 03:45 PM
LIFE IN THE FAR RIGHT LANE
14 November 2008

Picture this, then tell me all the reasons why not.

The Government buys up all of GM’s tired passenger car inventory to replace and standardize Government Fleets. If GM doesn’t have enough passenger cars to equip our standing army of Protected Government Employees, The Government can also scour the Ford and Chrysler inventories.

Once those inventories of already-outdated models are pressed into public service, THEN give the stubborn and visionless automakers money to re-tool for alternative energy vehicles. AEV’s rock and roll. SUV’s duck and cover.

Speaking of re-tooling and oversized/outdated vehicles, does each automaker really need to make vans, SUV’s and trucks? Or, since there are three automakers and three uneconomical/unenvironmental classes, might each automaker specialize in one behemoth? And how ’bout a surcharge at time of purchase, to offset their disproportionate wear and tear on our roads? There’s no such thing as a free pothole.

Anyway, let’s pretend that GM is now car-less, with only its Big Wheels to unload…which it can readily do if the price is right. I can already hear the marketing wheels turning: Oversized Event! Big vehicles at small prices! And just like that, GM is vehicle-less.

You know those Smart Cars? And you know how we like to talk about American Exceptionalism? America needs, and GM can make, a smarter car. Note that Genius and Gifted both start with G…but, I agree, Gifted Car doesn’t resonate and Genius Motors would be something of a lie.

Copying someone else’s good idea and slapping a new name on it is quintessential American commerce, is it not? Style-wise, picture a blend of the Smart Car and the Mini Cooper…voila, the hybrid Go Motors.

You know those luggage cart concessions at airports? Put your money or your credit card in, slide the cart out of bondage and off you go?

Now picture that with Go Motors, not just at airports and train stations but also around town. Cash won’t get you in the door, of course, that would be an invitation to rent a get-away car, but your authorized credit card will. Rent-A-Ride. Lots and lots of people only need cars from time to time.

The I.D. numbers of the little whizzers would be prominent on their roofs, along with tracking devices inside. You don’t want anyone to know where you go, don’t rent ‘em. EZPZ. I don’t presume to know the formula but it seems fairly straightforward that the mileage was at A when you gained access with your credit card and at B when you logged out/returned the car. It costs X/day to rent the cutie, plus Y/mile. Maybe it’s W for a half day and Z for a full day, I don’t know, but I DO know that it’s simple number crunching to come up with the optimum price.

Think not sizable profit on millions of rentals, but modest profit on multi-millions of rentals. Feed the classes, dine with the masses. Feed the masses, dine with the classes.

The insurance angle is its own Devilish Detail, as ever, but that is true for each vehicle and each vehicle owner. There is obviously a formula. On the one hand, major damage shall have to be attributable to the renter. On the other hand, we will have to be less finicky about minor scratches and dents.

Once upon a long ago and far away time, a driver had been hired to take me around to see the sights of Paris. Remember the Talent Agent Slash Hustler Max in The Sound of Music? “I like the way rich people live. I like the way I live when I’m with them.” What a very nice man that driver was, and what a bleedin’ menace on the road.

It seemed to me. But then I realized he was no worse than any of the other menaces on the road. Driving in Paris was as different from driving in Los Angeles as bowling is from bowling with bumpers in the gutters.

“How many accidents have you been in?” I couldn’t not ask…I was white knuckling it.

“Never.”

“Really?” I literally could not contain my skepticism. ”I must say, I am astonished…it seems like you might be in one weekly, if not daily.”

I have never forgotten what the free-wheeling Frenchie said then.

“Oh METAL, many times…but never a person.”

If metal was damaged but no person was injured, it didn’t signify.

In the United States of America, a person of 18 brief years can volunteer to die for our country. That same soldier cannot rent a car. Eighteen to vote. Eighteen to die for your country. Twenty-one to drink legally. Twenty-five to rent a car. Nuthin’ for nuthin’ but we have got our priorities all KINDS of screwed up.

We value cars more than people…damning evidence abounds.

Anyway, Go Motors for no-muss, no-fuss rentals but also for purchase. Plain, economical run-arounds could become GM’s bread and butter.

Then, trust me on this, ALLOW GOLF CARTS ON CITY STREETS. Look to Peachtree City, Georgia for the rules and regulations, they’ve got it down. Back and forth to schools, back and forth to extracurricular activities, back and forth to medical appointments, back and forth to churches, back and forth to meetings, back and forth to stores, back and forth to pick up the one thing you went to the market for but forgot, these are errands and obligations that require transportation but really do NOT require heavy metal.

Overkill is overkill, with gadgetry as with weaponry.

I heard that one in 450 households faces foreclosure…and Mustang, Camaro and Challenger are all coming out with souped-up-but-toned-down Muscle Cars. Toys for Boys, eh? Can’t live with ‘em, can’t live without ‘em. The boys.

The toys, I dunno, I think maybe we CAN live without them for a spell…say, just while we’re at war and the economy teeters on collapse, and while we figger out what the hell we mean by Change.

http://peaceandcarats.com/

acptulsa
12-05-2008, 03:49 PM
Just a question: If you are in favor of not bailing out the auto industry, are you also in favor of trying to keep manufacturing jobs in the US or sending them over seas? Not directed at anybody. I am still not convinced about the need to bail them out (make loans available- not handing them money). They knew for a while that people were buying fewer of their big cars but did not develop a plan for what to do in the event that sales of small trucks and SUVs dropped.

The thing is, bailing out the Big Three isn't really about keeping manufacturing jobs in this country. Check it out--I believe foreign companies build more cars here than the Big Three do, or at least they're damned close to it. Certainly there are more of them.

The Big Three is more of a source of white collar jobs in this country. To me, that's where the issue is. Of course, looking at what they've been hiring into those jobs and what the scumbags have been doing with that power, maybe our white collar workforce isn't worth saving. Yet, as a nation, we do want them, don't we.

Speaking of which, there are some white collar jobs provided by foreign corporations. Toyota, for example, has a styling studio in California. But, still, it bodes not well. And I'd be for helping the rich bastards out some for the sake of keeping decent jobs here--if they weren't such a nepotistic bunch of arrogant fuckups.