Reason: Huckabee Knocks "Libertarian faux-cons" in his new Book

[Knightskye]

http://reason.com/blog/show/130111.html


The real threat to the Republican Party is something we saw a lot of this past election cycle: libertarianism masked as conservatism. And it threatens to not only split the Republican Party, but render it as irrelevant as the Whig Party.


You can see the growing influence of faux-cons in the 2008 election cycle from the so-called Ron Paul Revolution to the economics-only conservatism reflected by some of the supporters of Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani.

But of course, he would like to defend himself against a barrage of angry e-mails:


Before I get singed by hot and angry mail from Ron Paul disciples, I want to be emphatic in stating my sincere respect for Congressman Paul. I was convinced that he at least had genuine convictions and was willing to stand by them and on them no matter what the audience--a lot more than I could say for some of the candidates who could change positions as easily as Cher can change costumes in one of her many farewell tours.

Will it work? Don't count on it, Huckster. :D

Contact Mike Huckabee:
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=Contact.Home

[Pennsylvania]

It always goes back to that Reagan quote about libertarianism being the core of conservatism.

Self-proclaimed "Reagan-conservatives" are a contradiction if they reject libertarianism. Huckabee didn't come right out and say he was a Reagan-conservative but he sure acts like one of those people.

[Natalie]

What a jerk.

[LibertyEagle]

OK, that crap from Huckabee has made me madder than anything I've seen lately. :mad: He can go straight to hell! Traditional conservatism has nothing whatsoever to do with all this social crap and war-mongering that the ex-Trotskyites pushed into the movement and bootlicking big government pukes like Huckster have promoted. Ron Paul's ideas ARE traditional conservatism, you SON-OF-A-BITCH! He knows it too. That is why they are pushing this BS.

This is why we badly need to be getting our ideas out there, otherwise all people are going to hear is what is spewing out of Huckaboo's and the likes of Sean Hannity's mouths.

[mrwiizrd]

I really hoped this neo-con and his followers would slowly fade into obscurity after the trouncing the GOP took in the election, I guess we're not that lucky.

[melissa22]

OK, that crap from Huckabee has made me madder than anything I've seen lately. :mad: He can go straight to hell! Traditional conservatism has nothing whatsoever to do with all this social crap and war-mongering that the ex-Trotskyites pushed into the movement and bootlicking big government pukes like Huckster have promoted. Ron Paul's ideas ARE traditional conservatism, you SON-OF-A-BITCH! He knows it too. That is why they are pushing this BS.

This is why we badly need to be getting our ideas out there, otherwise all people are going to hear is what is spewing out of Huckaboo's and the likes of Sean Hannity's mouths.


Then go to youtube and make a video, get thousands of hits to it. You have a forum and resources to promote that, right?

[melissa22]

I don't need to make paragraphs on this. The Pubs need to break away from the religious idiots as well as the neocons and that is really all that needs to be said.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

I really hoped this neo-con and his followers would slowly fade into obscurity after the trouncing the GOP took in the election, I guess we're not that lucky.

I wouldn't expect so. Social conservatives are feeling betrayed, lately, by the Republican Party--which professes to court them.

[lodge939]

In a chapter titled “Faux-Cons: Worse than Liberalism,” Huckabee identifies what he calls the “real threat” to the Republican Party: “libertarianism masked as conservatism.” He is not so much concerned with the libertarian candidate Ron Paul’s Republican supporters as he is with a strain of mainstream fiscal conservative thought that demands ideological purity, seeing any tax increase as apostasy and leaving little room for government-driven solutions to people’s problems.

Brilliant.

[Kotin]

this ass clown should be sent back to arkansas and confined to a small hut and cold porridge.

[JK/SEA]

Well, what do you expect from a Republican LIBERAL?..ha! take that Mickey!..

[Knightskye]

Well, what do you expect from a Republican LIBERAL?..ha! take that Mickey!..

Seriously. "Weapons of mass education."

[melissa22]

this ass clown should be sent back to arkansas and confined to a small hut and cold porridge.

People from the south really are in fact that dumb?

[lodge939]

I think he's found his niche will his crappy new show, though.

[Feenix566]

So, Mike Huckabee thinks that the biggest threat to fiscal responsibility is people who want the government to be fiscally responsible, but also want to bring the troops home and don't hate homosexuals enough?

Yeah, okay Mike.

[mrwiizrd]

so, mike huckabee thinks that the biggest threat to fiscal responsibility is people who want the government to be fiscally responsible, but also want to bring the troops home and don't hate homosexuals enough?

Yeah, okay mike.


lol :d

[LibertyEagle]

Then go to youtube and make a video, get thousands of hits to it. You have a forum and resources to promote that, right?

What's your point, Melissa? Do you have one?

[JK/SEA]

What's your point, Melissa? Do you have one?


Oh, its just Melissa22 trying to make friends in here...so far she's batting a thousand.

to know her is to love her...i guess..lol!..:rolleyes:

[Kotin]

People from the south really are in fact that dumb?

no, just people from the south like him.

[Eric21ND]

Aww the theocrat rises his ugly mug again...For someone so concerned about the Ron Paul movement and fiscal conservatism he sure did a great job being Dr. Paul's parrot in the debates and interviews. I still remember literally laughing out loud when he said he wanted to abolish the income tax....talk about coming out of left field for the Huckster.

When did Huckster become a fan of the fair tax anyway? I know he did for pure political opportunitism. He was a tax increaser in Arkansas.

[itshappening]

lets get Ron on his show, actually, he probably wouldnt go on but still worth a try.... he's usually very nice even to people he doesn't agree with or can't stand he gives them fair time

[Flash]

Reason: Huckabee Knocks "Libertarian faux-cons" in his new Book

We can return by knocking religious pro-Israel extremist that want to turn society back to the dark ages.

[angelatc]

I don't need to make paragraphs on this. The Pubs need to break away from the religious idiots as well as the neocons and that is really all that needs to be said.

Indeed! WTF is HUckabee doing in Reason, anyway?

[Knightskye]

I sent an e-mail (mailto:huckmail@foxnews.com) asking if there was a way to suggest a guest. That would be a sight to see. Paul and Huckabee getting into it. I think it would be a third time; they had mini-debates in the September 5th and January 19th debates. And it would be great for ratings.


Indeed! WTF is HUckabee doing in Reason, anyway?

They wrote an article about his new book since it mentioned Libertarians.

Did you read the article?

[rockandrollsouls]

My family and I just sent him an earful.

[Jeremy]

somebody should write an entire book about Huckabee then =)

[jabrownie]

At least he didn't include any more great jokes about how wonderful it would be if people started slitting their wrists with razorblades, or if Obama got shot, or stories about roping his wife like a steer, frying squirrels in his popcorn machine, or strapping fido to his car. Then again, discussing those things would help people forget about how he covered for his son who enjoyed slicing, dicing and hanging a few pooches.

Hmm....seems the guy's pretty sick and twisted....that would explain why he's talking about RP and everyone else instead of himself.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

[nate895]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

You are supposed to have a moral society, but I submit that it isn't the government's responsibility to make it so. Once you use the government to attack one set of liberties, it can be used for all sets of liberty.

[A. Havnes]

Let Huckabee know that we don't enjoy listening to him trash us, and then beg him to have Ron Paul on his show! I'd love to see the two of them together!

[Zera]

Fuck Huck.

[homah]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

If anti-gay, anti-porn, anti-gambling, anti-drugs and anti-atheism is going to be the GOP's definition of "morality," then believe me, most of us will be more than happy to stay away and cost the GOP future elections.

[Zera]

Am I the only one who thinks Tones is just another neocon? I mean, he listens to Hannity, supported McCain, is pretty deep into the Obama was born in Kenya thing...

[StateofTrance]

Huck is a closet *** who faps on Jesus.


Fuck Huck.

What?

Fuck you, Huckster.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Homah..yes we are pulling the GOP back to morality. More to the Goldwater, early Reagan days. The GOP IS supposed to be Limited government, non interventionism, (although the bankers control foreign policy on both sides), Fiscal responsibility, balanced budgets, possibly the Fair Tax, but not the social liberalism embraced by the Libertarian Party. And for the poster above ..please read Thomas Paine Society and Government. You must have a moral society to have very little government....immorality FORCES government force. Tones

[Zera]

Huck is a closet *** who faps on Jesus.


Fuck Huck.

What?

Fuck you, Huckster.

That should be a new chant.

FUCK HUCK! FUCK HUCK! FUCK HUCK! FUCK HUCK! FUCK HUCK! FUCK HUCK!

Just say it nice and loud, it makes you feel better.

[nate895]

Homah..yes we are pulling the GOP back to morality. More to the Goldwater, early Reagan days. The GOP IS supposed to be Limited government, non interventionism, (although the bankers control foreign policy on both sides), Fiscal responsibility, balanced budgets, possibly the Fair Tax, but not the social liberalism embraced by the Libertarian Party. And for the poster above ..please read Thomas Paine Society and Government. You must have a moral society to have very little government....immorality FORCES government force. Tones

You, apparently, don't know what limited government is. Freedom and limited government mean you have to deal with the crap too. Being moral doesn't mean to force your neighbors to not do drugs, it means that as a society we have to be honest, trustworthy, and ever vigilant for attacks on all people's liberty.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am not a he..and I am not a neo con. Do you even know what a neoconservative is? Doubtful that you do. Google neoconservative. I am a Ron Paul Republican...i'm a paleoconservative. Ron Paul is a paleoconservative like Pat Buchanan, Goldwater etc. tones

[StateofTrance]

I am not a he..and I am not a neo con. Do you even know what a neoconservative is? Doubtful that you do. Google neoconservative. I am a Ron Paul Republican...i'm a paleoconservative. Ron Paul is a paleoconservative like Pat Buchanan, Goldwater etc. tones

Pat Buchanan shilled for Sarah the Fuck, a neo-con inbred. He lost my respect after he started shilling for McShame campaign on MSNBC.

[homah]

You must have a moral society to have very little government....immorality FORCES government force. Tones

Assuming for a second that this premise is true, what makes a Christian more moral than an atheist?

[Liberty Rebellion]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

Druggin, porn, and gamblin are moral in my eyes. Who are you to say otherwise?

[tonesforjonesbones]

You are why we have a problem in the uSA. please remain in the LP. thanks. tones

[nate895]

You are why we have a problem in the uSA. please remain in the LP. thanks. tones

You still haven't responded to any of my comments.

[Andrew-Austin]

You are why we have a problem in the uSA. please remain in the LP. thanks. tones

I might make a poll asking how many people view porn at least once a week, have tried drugs, and put a few quarters in a slot machine before, you'll see the majority of the membership here is "why the US has a problem". :rolleyes:

Step away from the boob tube and neocon propaganda. Yeah, if the Republican party is nothing but a bunch of fascists who try and micromanage what I can do with my body, I'll stay in the libertarian party.

[Liberty Rebellion]

You are why we have a problem in the uSA. please remain in the LP. thanks. tones

Actually, it's closed-minded "moral"-authority figures with a holier-than-thou attitude and not a shred of tolerance in your system that are the problem.

Too late, I'm active in the Republican Party and I'm sending my hoes to get ya.

[Xenophage]

Huckabee is such a fat ass.

[Drknows]

Huck is so irrelevant. He will always be third string because of his theocrat holier-than-thou morally superior butt hurt attitude.

I heard he bashes other pastors in his book for not endorsing him. what kind of pastor does that?

[nate895]

Actually, it's closed-minded "moral"-authority figures with a holier-than-thou attitude and not a shred of tolerance in your system that are the problem.

Too late, I'm active in the Republican Party and I'm sending my hoes to get ya.


I might make a poll asking how many people view porn at least once a week, and have tried drugs, you'll see the majority of the membership here is "why the US has a problem". :rolleyes:

Step away from the boob tube and neocon propaganda. Yeah, if the Republican party is nothing but a bunch of fascists who try and micromanage what I can do with my body and life, I'll stay in the libertarian party.

You guys are going about the argument all wrong. This person has firm moral convictions that you cannot change, the only way to change their point of view when it comes to the law itself is to use logic in that if government is used against one's enemies, it can be used against you, and a moral society isn't about the government enforcing Judeo-Christian moral values, it is about being kind, loving, honest, trustworthy, and ever vigilant against tyranny in all forms.

[Xenophage]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

Christ on a cracker!

If you want more drugs, institute a drug war.

If you want more prostitution, make it illegal.

How's it been working out, trying to legislate morality?

The ONLY SIN IS: Committing aggression against someone else. Hurting another human being through force or fraud. THAT is sin! Everything else is, at worst, a severe character flaw.

And I agree we need a moral society as well. But what's morality? Define that first. If you're going to hold some mystical bullshit over the heads of everyone who just wants to have a good time, you're going to end up with some other mystical leader imposing his own will upon you at some point or another. If you don't have a society that respects human rights, and that includes the right to be a drunken, promiscuous fatass, you'll never HAVE a moral society.

[Xenophage]

You guys are going about the argument all wrong. This person has firm moral convictions that you cannot change, the only way to change their point of view when it comes to the law itself is to use logic in that if government is used against one's enemies, it can be used against you, and a moral society isn't about the government enforcing Judeo-Christian moral values, it is about being kind, loving, honest, trustworthy, and ever vigilant against tyranny in all forms.

I think I essentially said the same thing except I was more vulgar.

I like being vulgar. That's freedom, baby. Yeah!

[nate895]

I think I essentially said the same thing except I was more vulgar.

I like being vulgar. That's freedom, baby. Yeah!

Well, I find it to be immoral to engage in many of those activities, but they in no way contribute to a "moral society."

[Zera]

Tones, you are basically just a Huckabee supporter. Somewhat barely conservative that believes in a few liberties and some parts of the Constitution you agree with, and hard on the "morals" of your religion being implemented on the country. Hmm... Reminds me of theocracy.

Paul may have morals like you, yes. But what he believes is that his morals shouldn't be pushed upon you. That's where you and him differentiate.

[Andrew-Austin]

You guys are going about the argument all wrong. This person has firm moral convictions that you cannot change, the only way to change their point of view when it comes to the law itself is to use logic in that if government is used against one's enemies, it can be used against you, and a moral society isn't about the government enforcing Judeo-Christian moral values, it is about being kind, loving, honest, trustworthy, and ever vigilant against tyranny in all forms.

You're right.

And damn the part in bold reminds me of a certain quote, can't remember it exactly but I'm looking... Someone help me out here.




If you want more drugs, institute a drug war.

No kidding, Tones isn't the only one who wants drugs illegal, the dealers probably want it that way too. Keeps the price up.

God forbid families, churches, etc be the primary warriors against immorality, that is clearly not cutting it so we need the state to do it.
zomg we can't trust families to teach their kids either, here comes public education.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Huckabee has ALWAYS been a AssHat SleazeBag!

Does Huckabee write in his book using religion via his scam artist slimy predator Kenneth Copeland and his ministries, using the lords name to raise cash off the feeble holy rollers?

Huckabee and the Gutter ScumBucket Ed Rollins (CNN Employee and Huck's ex campaign manager) belong in some 3rd world nation pulling their circus stunts.

I see the Huckster finally got his teeth capped with the Chalk-White BeeGees special. The Huckabee IS: a Liar, a Manipulator, a Predator, a Stealer, & a POS!

The GOP has serious problems internally, way way way RIGHT... but they always come to the center for votes

[Paulitician]

For once I agree with Huckabee (and this is an area where I disagree with Ron Paul on), libertarians should stay out the GOP. The GOP has given us a bad enough name already.

[angelatc]

I sent an e-mail (mailto:huckmail@foxnews.com) asking if there was a way to suggest a guest. That would be a sight to see. Paul and Huckabee getting into it. I think it would be a third time; they had mini-debates in the September 5th and January 19th debates. And it would be great for ratings.



They wrote an article about his new book since it mentioned Libertarians.

Did you read the article?

No, I hate Reason and I hate Huckabee....seeing those two names reminded me it was a good time to clean the bathroom.

Huckabee personifies everything that is wrong with the GOP. His immigration policy aligns more with libertarians than Republicans, and his spending habits align with the left. But I guess the neocons aren't going to go quetly into that good night, which means we might lose a lot more elections.

How many people did Huckabee bring into the GOP? Because Ron Paul brought a boatload. Too bad the GOP was too weak and pathetic to keep most of them.

[Brian4Liberty]

I am not a he..and I am not a neo con. Do you even know what a neoconservative is? Doubtful that you do. Google neoconservative. I am a Ron Paul Republican...i'm a paleoconservative. Ron Paul is a paleoconservative like Pat Buchanan, Goldwater etc. tones

Many people would say that neo-conservatives created and nurtured the "family values" movement for their own manipulative purposes.

Barry Goldwater was very pro-choice. He had no problems with gay people. I would assume that he had no problems with gambling. I am not sure which positions of Goldwater's you would agree with?

[melissa22]

What's your point, Melissa? Do you have one?

Are you angry or are you boring? Sorry didn't mean to crush your fragile egg shell of an ego.

[melissa22]

no, just people from the south like him.

Yee haw

[Theocrat]

OK, that crap from Huckabee has made me madder than anything I've seen lately. :mad: He can go straight to hell! Traditional conservatism has nothing whatsoever to do with all this social crap and war-mongering that the ex-Trotskyites pushed into the movement and bootlicking big government pukes like Huckster have promoted. Ron Paul's ideas ARE traditional conservatism, you SON-OF-A-BITCH! He knows it too. That is why they are pushing this BS.

This is why we badly need to be getting our ideas out there, otherwise all people are going to hear is what is spewing out of Huckaboo's and the likes of Sean Hannity's mouths.

That's why the GOP is way beyond any hope of reform; it's chock full of individuals who have been sorely brainwashed by the "gospel according to neoconservativism." This is what awaits those of you seeking to change the Republicratic Party. Have fun, and I hope you bring lots of aspirin and beer. :D

[james1906]

Ok, so he condemns those who are socially liberal (ie. support gay rights) and then he makes an analogy to Cher's wardrobe?

WTF?

[emazur]

Fuck Mike Fuckabee

[BuddyRey]

Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period.

That's a bit of a misnomer. Social liberals want to subsidize alternative lifestyles. Social conservatives want to ban them. Libertarians (adherents to the only truly consistent political ideology in the U.S. today) neither seek to encourage, nor discourage, unorthodox behavior; we simply realize that it's none of the government's business...that true morals relate only to how one treats his fellow man, not necessarily how one acts in his own bedroom, and that when political power is wielded in favor of a "moral society", that political power, once given the air of legitimacy, can easily be wielded in just the opposite direction once social liberals get elected.

[Rangeley]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones
If you want a moral society, shouldn't the government be the last thing you'd want pushing for it?

[Chester Copperpot]

http://reason.com/blog/show/130111.html





But of course, he would like to defend himself against a barrage of angry e-mails:



Will it work? Don't count on it, Huckster. :D

Contact Mike Huckabee:
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=Contact.Home


Sorry Mike Huckabee.. Social Conservatism is not the be-all end-all of conservatism.. and I for one dont need somebody telling me how I should think, how I should pray, or what I should or shouldnt put in my body.

Im an adult, and I can figure out all of those things all by myself thank you.

You just lost your last ounce of relevance. Say goodnight Gracie.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Those issues should be left to the states and to the people. 10th amendment. tones

[MikeStanart]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

Someone release the hounds on him.

[MikeStanart]

actually, it's closed-minded "moral"-authority figures with a holier-than-thou attitude and not a shred of tolerance in your system that are the problem.

Too late, i'm active in the republican party and i'm sending my hoes to get ya.

go get em!

Woot!

[MikeStanart]

I am not a he..and I am not a neo con. Do you even know what a neoconservative is? Doubtful that you do. Google neoconservative. I am a Ron Paul Republican...i'm a paleoconservative. Ron Paul is a paleoconservative like Pat Buchanan, Goldwater etc. tones

Please don't you dare insult Ron Paul by saying he is anything like you.

[georgiaboy]

Huckabee, along with McCain, was one of the headliners that showed up at the recent rally for Saxby "Bailout" Chambliss, the Republican currently in a runoff for his US Senate seat here in Georgia.

I dunno what he said, but just the fact that at this moment of economic instability he's pumping up another Republican who wouldn't know a spending cut from a Cher costume tells me plenty. I also remember his socialist, sorry "compassionate" conservatism from the debates and his taxation record in Arkansas. Talk and paper & ink are cheap, Mikey.

I heard the Hannity interview, and the fact that Huckabee is going so hugely on the offense against libertarianism really had me scratching my head. Why would he do this? Here I was thinking RP republicans might just get a chance to help shape the party, and I hear this "libertarianism and conservatism are two different things" crap from Huckabee.

Interestingly, though, I sensed that Hannity was trying to get Huckabee off that soapbox.

I also sensed that Hannity wasn't buying everything Huckabee was trying to sell.

One thing's for sure. If the GOP doesn't learn its lesson and get back to its libertarian roots, they can kiss their party GOODBYE.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! TonesHey tones, you're looking pretty chunky in that profile pic. The government needs to put you on a diet and write your grocery list. I'm a bike riding vegan...and we will be pulling the GOP back to fitness! grim

[Bruno]

Hey tones, you're looking pretty chunky in that profile pic. The government needs to put you on a diet and write your grocery list. I'm a bike riding vegan...and we will be pulling the GOP back to fitness! grim

;)

[LibertyEagle]

you are supposed to have a moral society, but i submit that it isn't the government's responsibility to make it so. Once you use the government to attack one set of liberties, it can be used for all sets of liberty.

qft

[tonesforjonesbones]

you can only hope you look this good at 52 years...lololll little punk. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

Huckabee/palin 2012!!!!!!!! Tones

[LibertyEagle]

Those issues should be left to the states and to the people. 10th amendment. tones

Exactly. So why did you go off with this? :confused:


Originally Posted by tonesforjonesbones
Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

Paleoconservatism is not about the federal government legislating morality. Where are you getting this? For that matter, social conservatism is a misnomer. These people differ little from their leftist counterparts on the other side of the aisle, as they both want to use big government to force their personal opinions on all the rest of us. They only differ in what they want to use big government to force down everyone's throats.

You mention Goldwater. Did you forget that he said he wanted to kick Jerry Falwell in the butt? Did you also forget what he said in general about the religious right who wanted to use big government to force their own views down everyone's throats?

[LibertyEagle]

Huckabee/palin 2012!!!!!!!! Tones

PUKE!

Huckabee is not a traditional conservative, Tones. He's a big government leftist. I don't care if he DOES toss around the name of the Constitution a few times. Look at his record.

[Nate K]

Hahah You people (paleocons) are such hypocrites.. "limited government conservatism" and social conservatism are pretty much complete opposites. For a society to enforce "morality" it needs a bigger, more intrusive government.

I mean most of you are good, well meaning people, like Huckabee.. but your stubbornness that I think comes from your faith blinds your reason.

[tonesforjonesbones]

The GOP will either go back to morality...or it will die a death. Nobody is talking about legislating 'sins' ...but getting the party back to good morals and values. if they dont, they will lose the Christian right..which will destroy the party. We are talking about returning to the Constitution. Social conservativsm. An immoral society creates it's own slavery to laws. For every immoral act..another law is passed. Now, because the banks and corporations didn't police their own greed....the hatchet is going to come down with more regulation. If people can not govern themselves...obviously, someone has to rein them in. REad THOMAS PAINE....Society and Government. Immorality FORCES government force. Common Sense people. tones

[LibertyEagle]

Hahah You people (paleocons) are such hypocrites.. "limited government conservatism" and social conservatism are pretty much complete opposites. For a society to enforce "morality" it needs a bigger, more intrusive government.

I mean most of you are good, well meaning people, like Huckabee.. but your stubbornness that I think comes from your faith blinds your reason.

You people? Watch it bud! I'm a traditional conservative (paleocon) and I damn well know the difference.

[Bruno]

He's coming to Des Moines on the 20th.

http://www.zvents.com/des-moines-ia/events/show/85065686-mike-huckabee-on-tour-for-book-do-the-right-thing-inside-the-movement-thats-bringing-common-sense-back-to-america

Would it be rude to ask him to sign my copy of The Revolution: A Manifesto? ;)

[Paulitical Correctness]

Immorality FORCES government force. Common Sense people. tones

For serious? :rolleyes:

[Nate K]

The GOP will either go back to morality...or it will die a death. Nobody is talking about legislating 'sins' ...but getting the party back to good morals and values. if they dont, they will lose the Christian right..which will destroy the party. We are talking about returning to the Constitution. Social conservativsm. An immoral society creates it's own slavery to laws. For every immoral act..another law is passed. Now, because the banks and corporations didn't police their own greed....the hatchet is going to come down with more regulation. If people can not govern themselves...obviously, someone has to rein them in. REad THOMAS PAINE....Society and Government. Immorality FORCES government force. Common Sense people. tones

You should look into Thomas Paine's views on Christianity. Might entertain you.

Founding fathers were not Christians by the way, not even close to a majority.




You people? Watch it bud! I'm a traditional conservative (paleocon) and I damn well know the difference.

Whoever believes in this "social conservatism" I'm referring to as you people.

[Theocrat]

Hahah You people (paleocons) are such hypocrites.. "limited government conservatism" and social conservatism are pretty much complete opposites. For a society to enforce "morality" it needs a bigger, more intrusive government.

I mean most of you are good, well meaning people, like Huckabee.. but your stubbornness that I think comes from your faith blinds your reason.

All civil governments force morality of some kind, for morality is the act or state of imposing a standard of right and wrong. For instance, when the federal government passes a law which says it's unlawful for corporations to file inaccurate financial statements for the public (mainly investors), it is instituting a moral standard which says it's wrong to lie.

Getting away from whether the federal government should regulate private businesses or not, it should be obvious that some standard of morality is going to be legislated by any level of government. It is simply inevitable, and people need to understand that. What's the alternative? Government is going to legislate immorality? That would be heinous, indeed, and it would lead to even more civil suffering on a massive scale.

[Nate K]

All civil governments force morality of some kind, for morality is the act or state of imposing a standard of right and wrong. For instance, when the federal government passes a law which says it's unlawful for corporations to file inaccurate financial statements for the public (mainly investors), it is instituting a moral standard which says it's wrong to lie.

Getting away from whether the federal government should regulate private businesses or not, it should be obvious that some standard of morality is going to be legislated by any level of government. It is simply inevitable, and people need to understand that. What's the alternative? Government is going to legislate immorality? That would be heinous, indeed, and it would lead to even more civil suffering on a massive scale.

Coming from a .. Theocrat?

Do you believe our Constitution was ratified by Jesus?

[LibertyEagle]

The GOP will either go back to morality...or it will die a death. Nobody is talking about legislating 'sins' ...but getting the party back to good morals and values. if they dont, they will lose the Christian right..which will destroy the party. We are talking about returning to the Constitution. Social conservativsm. An immoral society creates it's own slavery to laws. For every immoral act..another law is passed. Now, because the banks and corporations didn't police their own greed....the hatchet is going to come down with more regulation. If people can not govern themselves...obviously, someone has to rein them in. REad THOMAS PAINE....Society and Government. Immorality FORCES government force. Common Sense people. tones

Again, social conservatism is NOT traditional conservatism. That is, if you view Goldwater's brand of conservatism as traditional conservatism. I do.

Since you raised it, how exactly are you thinking that we would get the party back to "good morals and values"? Unless you are talking about legislating morality at the federal level, you aren't going to make the religious right happy, from what I've seen. So what do you do, Tones? Bow to them? Legislate something at the federal level that is unconstitutional to do so?

Maybe you mean we should get the slime out of our federal government. That would entail getting rid of congressmen who are paid off by lobbyists; cutting out funding for lots of things, including the Department of Education, federal funding of Arts, the BATF, the United Nations, etc.; stopping all foreign aid and especially our practice of overthrowing countries and installing puppets of our choosing. How about we restore morality to our government by ending the scam of what is called the Federal Reserve? Now, this and much more would be a beginning in restoring morality to government. Is that what you're thinking of?

[Theocrat]

Coming from a .. Theocrat?

Do you believe our Constitution was ratified by Jesus?

You know, you could at least deal with my argument instead of the personal attacks. Thanks. :)

[Nate K]

You know, you could at least deal with my argument instead of the personal attacks. Thanks. :)

You won that argument, I'm trying to figure out if you really believe this is a "Christian nation"?

[LibertyEagle]

Founding fathers were not Christians by the way, not even close to a majority.

Oh geez. Not again. Theocrat has posted about this numerous times and offered proof galore.

You are wrong.

[Nate K]

Oh geez. Not again. Theocrat has posted about this numerous times and offered proof galore.

You are wrong.

Show me the proof I'll see if it overrides my own.

[LibertyEagle]

Do you believe our Constitution was ratified by Jesus?

WHAT? :rolleyes:

[LibertyEagle]

Show me the proof I'll see if it overrides my own.

Ask Theo. I'm not in the mood for the 99th argument about this.

[Theocrat]

You won that argument, I'm trying to figure out if you really believe this is a "Christian nation"?

We were established as a Christian nation, yes. We no longer function as one because many Americans have forgotten their Creator in favor of money, technology, sex, entertainment, and other self-indulging, autonomous acts.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Thomas paine..common sense:

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.

[Wadesc]

Many people would say that neo-conservatives created and nurtured the "family values" movement for their own manipulative purposes.

Barry Goldwater was very pro-choice. He had no problems with gay people. I would assume that he had no problems with gambling. I am not sure which positions of Goldwater's you would agree with?

This is what immediately popped into my head when I started reading this topic. The Arch-Conservative Barry Goldwater would most likely spit in Hucks face for these comments and those that are defending him if he were alive today.


On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

Senator Barry Goldwater - Senate Speech (16 September 1981)


Oh and btw, I'm not hating on social conservatives or Christians (I am one myself), I just felt I would point out how illogical of an argument the Huck is spewing. We are all entitled to our individual views and for him to define "conservatism" by the standards of his rigid Neo-Con RR viewpoint smacks of Authoritarianism to me.


Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives.
-Barry Goldwater

I have been a "Republican" since I was in my early teens. I don't know, somehow somebody along the line convinced me that it was the party of individual Liberty, Limited government, fiscal responsibility, a rejection of the nanny state, strong national defense, individual responsibility, etc. etc. I was fully aware of the hypocrisy and brainlessness of what I guess we call the neo-liberal atmosphere that punctuates every corner of society, and it was my outright rejection of that that in my mind made me a "Conservative". If thats roughly the definition of a "conservative" then I'll be happy to wave the flag.

In reality, I realize how completely meaningless these labels have become. Only recently, (the past 3-4 years) I began to understand how contradictory and illogical the Republican Party's current platform was when compared to what I personally believed, and I could no longer justify arguing against my own common sense, especially when it was in the name of "conservatism". People throw around those words "liberal" and "conservative" so much that they have become arbitrary designations based on the subjective political beliefs of whoever is using them, and you can twist it however you like. Same thing with the left-right BS.

Huckabee seems to be jumping on the "libertarians F-ed up the world!" bandwagon that has been puttering around lately. When in reality its based on a complete strawman argument IMO. I feel quite vindicated for my "libertarian" views, as do many others im sure. Both on social and economic issues.

Silly Statists and their false logic, just trying to find any reason they can to tighten the shackles and crush the individual. Its no wonder so many people embrace the Dems as the party of change when the Republicans have just wallowed away on their throne of bone trying to keep their candle of self-righteousness alight by persecuting those who dare call them out on who they are.

Where have all the true statesmen gone?

Sorry Huck you just make yourself look like a fool in front of those that really matter. You can try to convince as many sheep as you want but more and more of us are beginning to understand how much of a fraud the current Republican party has become.

[LibertyEagle]

All civil governments force morality of some kind, for morality is the act or state of imposing a standard of right and wrong. For instance, when the federal government passes a law which says it's unlawful for corporations to file inaccurate financial statements for the public (mainly investors), it is instituting a moral standard which says it's wrong to lie.

Getting away from whether the federal government should regulate private businesses or not, it should be obvious that some standard of morality is going to be legislated by any level of government. It is simply inevitable, and people need to understand that. What's the alternative? Government is going to legislate immorality? That would be heinous, indeed, and it would lead to even more civil suffering on a massive scale.

True, but this is not going to satisfy what I've seen of the religious right. They have been convinced that everything needs to be legislated at the federal level. Take the issues of abortion and gay marriage, for example.

[Nate K]

We were established as a Christian nation, yes. We no longer function as one because many Americans have forgotten their Creator in favor of money, technology, sex, entertainment, and other self-indulging, autonomous acts.

Direct me to some evidence of our founders being overwhelmingly Christian and intending for America to be so too.

[Theocrat]

True, but this is not going to satisfy what I've seen of the religious right. They have been convinced that everything needs to be legislated at the federal level. Take the issues of abortion and gay marriage, for example.

That's because those in the "Religious Right" don't study their Bibles, don't understand how a republic functions, don't know American history, and don't read the writings of our Founding Fathers. We have many of what I like to call "Krispy Kreme" churches to thank for that. They have simply bought into the tactics of the secular Left that centralized government will solve all of our social/moral problems. It's quite shameful, to say the least, but God always preserves a remnant of faithful people to proclaim His truth rightly.

[tonesforjonesbones]

In other words...if you can't behave...you get a spanking. common sense. and it forces everyone to have big brothers foot on your neck...but human nature...eh...there has to be SOME government..tones

[Nate K]

In other words...if you can't behave...you get a spanking. common sense. and it forces everyone to have big brothers foot on your neck...but human nature...eh...there has to be SOME government..tones

Can't behave in what way?

Being homosexual? Going against the beliefs of the Bible? Not going to church?

[Theocrat]

Direct me to some evidence of our founders being overwhelmingly Christian and intending for America to be so too.

I've posted examples of that here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1591723#post1591723), here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1596457#post1596457), and here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1771976#post1771976).

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am NOT for legislation or amendments on abortion, gay marriage , porn, gambling etc on the FEdERAL LEVEL...leave it to the states and to the people. Tones

[Nate K]

I am NOT for legislation or amendments on abortion, gay marriage , porn, gambling etc on the FEdERAL LEVEL...leave it to the states and to the people. Tones

Ok... Then why the need to bring the Bible into the federal government?


Thanks for links theo

[tonesforjonesbones]

The only think i hear christians fussing about is abortion. Here's the problem though..take California for instance. Two times the people voted one man one woman. The first time, the justices legislated from the bench against the will of the people. now, they have voted again, same outcome overwhelmingly ..one man one woman. How many times do the people have to say NO WE DO NOT AGREE. Lawsuits are popping up..etcetc. This is ridiculous. THAT is why people start petitioning at the Federal level. I had a lesbian woman tell me on paltalk that if I vote according to my morals and values I should not vote. I am SICK of the atheists shoving their GODLESSNESS down my ThROAT! tones

[LibertyEagle]

I am NOT for legislation or amendments on abortion, gay marriage , porn, gambling etc on the FEdERAL LEVEL...leave it to the states and to the people. Tones

Ok, then why this?


The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY!

Tones, you do realize, don't you, that paleoconservatism is libertarian-conservatism?

"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is." -- Ronald Reagan

[ArrestPoliticians]

Huckabee sucks!

[Paulitical Correctness]

Lol @ describing conflicting morality as "Godlessness".

[Theocrat]

The only think i hear christians fussing about is abortion. Here's the problem though..take California for instance. Two times the people voted one man one woman. The first time, the justices legislated from the bench against the will of the people. now, they have voted again, same outcome overwhelmingly ..one man one woman. How many times do the people have to say NO WE DO NOT AGREE. Lawsuits are popping up..etcetc. This is ridiculous. THAT is why people start petitioning at the Federal level. I had a lesbian woman tell me on paltalk that if I vote according to my morals and values I should not vote. I am SICK of the atheists shoving their GODLESSNESS down my ThROAT! tones

I second that.

[LibertyEagle]

The only think i hear christians fussing about is abortion. Here's the problem though..take California for instance. Two times the people voted one man one woman. The first time, the justices legislated from the bench against the will of the people. now, they have voted again, same outcome overwhelmingly ..one man one woman. How many times do the people have to say NO WE DO NOT AGREE. Lawsuits are popping up..etcetc. This is ridiculous. THAT is why people start petitioning at the Federal level. I had a lesbian woman tell me on paltalk that if I vote according to my morals and values I should not vote. I am SICK of the atheists shoving their GODLESSNESS down my ThROAT! tones

Ok, but the answer is not to legislate everything at the federal level, when we don't agree with what our state government has done. Why not fix your state government?

I don't care if people are frustrated or not. It's this kind of crap that got us into this mess we are in now. Stop being lazy and fix your own local and state governments.


I am SICK of the atheists shoving their GODLESSNESS down my ThROAT!
To be honest, I'm sick of this too. But, I darn well don't want to pass legislation that stops them, either. Freedom is messy. It means I have to put up with people who are rude beyond all belief and do exactly to Christians, what they so complain about being done to them for being atheists or whatever. Clearly, they have no clue about what liberty really means.

So yeah, freedom is messy, but, the alternative is much worse.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Here is another thing I'm getting sick of...the pilgrims did NOT cut the head off of an indian chief and kick it around like a ball on Thanksgiving. The pilgrims did NOT steal land from the indians..they PURCHASED the land from the indians. I get so sick of revisionist history. I just went and read all the old writings of the original pilgrims that I could find. Even though the europeans expanded..and pushed the natives over...the pilgrims did NOT steal the land. There were only 102 original pilgrims..and half of them died during the winter. yes, some of the natives were not immune to sicknesses brought by the pilgrims but there is NO evidence the pilgrims gave the indians blankets filled with smallpox. NONSENSE. Matter of fact..one of the european gentlemen saved the life of the native chief. There were issues later...but a lot of that stuff is just nonsense. tones

[LibertyEagle]

Lol @ describing conflicting morality as "Godlessness".

You define atheism or agnosticism as "conflicting morality"? w/e :rolleyes:

[tonesforjonesbones]

I live in Florida..and the people overwhelmingly voted to amend our constitution ; one man one woman...and Florida didn't even pass the civil union. I haven't heard of protests around here. i guess i'm tired of "turning the other cheek". There comes a point when you have to STAND on your right to your beliefs and tell people to get out of your face. I am thinking, that time is now. tones

[Nate K]

Maybe you're right. The issue I'm speaking of mostly is laws with religious intent. Slavery was no more of a cultural practice than was Christianity. IMO.

I have no problem with a country who's citizens are predominately of one religion, I do have a problem with these people making laws based on their religious beliefs, without consideration of others with differing beliefs.

[LibertyEagle]

I live in Florida..and the people overwhelmingly voted to amend our constitution ; one man one woman...and Florida didn't even pass the civil union. I haven't heard of protests around here. i guess i'm tired of "turning the other cheek". There comes a point when you have to STAND on your right to your beliefs and tell people to get out of your face. I am thinking, that time is now. tones

I guess some of the gay people are thinking the same thing.

I agree that it is a state issue, but for the life of me, I don't see why anyone would want to stop them from having civil unions. What am I missing? How does someone else's relationship infringe on your liberty?

[tonesforjonesbones]

No i don't agree with forcing my religon through legislation...i'd just like for the christian hate to stop..or at least offer respect. Christian european white folks have been demonized for about 50 years...we're gettin real tired of it. Tones

[Paulitical Correctness]

You define atheism or agnosticism as "conflicting morality"? w/e :rolleyes:

I'm no dictionary. I ain't defining anything, nor am I the one preaching morality.


I had a lesbian woman tell me on paltalk that if I vote according to my morals and values I should not vote. I am SICK of the atheists shoving their GODLESSNESS down my ThROAT!

Sexual preference and faith aren't related. I know several homosexual Christians that would be pretty offended at the "godless" accusation.

That's all.

[Theocrat]

Maybe you're right. The issue I'm speaking of mostly is laws with religious intent. Slavery was no more of a cultural practice than was Christianity. IMO.

I have no problem with a country who's citizens are predominately of one religion, I do have a problem with these people making laws based on their religious beliefs, without consideration of others with differing beliefs.

If by "religious intent" you mean regulating church worship, then I agree wholeheartedly with you. There should be a separation of Church and State, but never religion from State. The federal government should not assume jurisdiction over what public churches do in their liturgy, and churches should not regulate how the three branches of federal government should operate.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm no dictionary. I ain't defining anything, nor am I the one preaching morality.

Well, it sure looked like you were attempting to be, here:


Originally Posted by Paulitical Correctness
Lol @ describing conflicting morality as "Godlessness".



Sexual preference and faith aren't related. I know several homosexual Christians that would be pretty offended at the "godless" accusation.
I missed that comment. I agree.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

I am SICK of the atheists shoving their GODLESSNESS down my ThROAT! tonesI'm sick of you people shoving your godishness down my throat.

You know, until I discovered Ron Paul, I was sure that Christianity was the single greatest threat to liberty. That was until I realized the massive numbers of evangelicals coming out in support of goldwater conservatism and the just-war doctrine. I threw that prejudice out the window in favor of the much bigger fish there are to fry.

Now that things are winding down, the sad truth is coming out. A number of his supporters have turned out to be trojan-horse agents for christian dominionism. I'm almost relieved that we weren't successful, as the world you wish to create is infinitely more frightening than what we already have.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I agree with Theocracy.

As far as the gay marriage issue goes...i don't think it was Christians who made a deal out of it..it was the gay folks. i'll say this again, whoever someone chooses as a partner is none of my business. When i am forced to a vote..i have to vote my morals and values. i will always vote my morals and values. I would say there were a lot of non christians who also voted for the one man one woman amendment. 60% of the voters in florida voted for one man one woman...i'm sure they were not all christians. i wish marriage was not up to the state at all ..for anyone. Tones

[LibertyEagle]

Now that things are winding down, the sad truth is coming out. A number of his supporters have turned out to be trojan-horse agents for christian dominionism. I'm almost relieved that we weren't successful, as the world you wish to create is infinitely more frightening than what we already have.

What in hell are you talking about?

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Look around

[LibertyEagle]

Look around

At WHAT?

[Nate K]

If by "religious intent" you mean regulating church worship, then I agree wholeheartedly with you. There should be a separation of Church and State, but never religion from State. The federal government should not assume jurisdiction over what public churches do in their liturgy, and churches should not regulate how the three branches of federal government should operate.

I'm confused with what you mean.. as well as the point of argument. At what point do you believe religion should intervene in the State as your name suggests?

I have no problem with respecting the culture of Christianity, in fact, as a non-Christian I have much respect for and enjoy the culture -- some of its believers, the holidays, traditions.. but I just don't see why it has to intervene with the law, unless it's within a state.

Also, your opinion on torchbearer's post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1823250&postcount=104) which reflects my original beliefs?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Grim...I really could care less if you are a christian ...just get off my back. thanks. tones (some people make me just lose my religion) :(

[Theocrat]

I'm sick of you people shoving your godishness down my throat.

You know, until I discovered Ron Paul, I was sure that Christianity was the single greatest threat to liberty. That was until I realized the massive numbers of evangelicals coming out in support of goldwater conservatism and the just-war doctrine. I threw that prejudice out the window in favor of the much bigger fish there are to fry.

Now that things are winding down, the sad truth is coming out. A number of his supporters have turned out to be trojan-horse agents for christian dominionism. I'm almost relieved that we weren't successful, as the world you wish to create is infinitely more frightening than what we already have.

I'm sick of you people shoving your Godlessness down my throat.

You know, until I discovered Ron Paul, I was sure that "Atheism" was the single greatest threat to liberty. That was until I realized the massive numbers of "atheists" coming out in support of "Goldwater conservatism" and the Just War Doctrine. I threw that prejudice out the window in favor of the much bigger fish there are to fry.

Now that things are winding down, the sad truth is coming out. A number of his supporters have turned out to be Trojan-horse agents for secular humanism. I'm almost relieved that we weren't successful, as the world they wish to create is infinitely more frightening than what we already have.

[tonesforjonesbones]

This crap is why I left the libertarian party and went back to the gop.

I looked at huckabee's website..he has a Pac..and part of the mission of his PAC is to keep art and music in schools. i really really like that. he is pullin for the right brain folks! YAY Tones

[Wadesc]

Can't we all just get along?

Save the hate for the statists.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Way to go Theo! tones (Psssssss....Ron Paul is a christian....shhh do'nt tell anybody)

[LibertyEagle]

I looked at huckabee's website..he has a Pac..and part of the mission of his PAC is to keep art and music in schools. i really really like that. he is pullin for the right brain folks! YAY Tones

How can you support Huckabee, Tones? He's a big government cretin.

[Theocrat]

Way to go Theo! tones (Psssssss....Ron Paul is a christian....shhh do'nt tell anybody)

You, you...you just said the "C" word! :eek:

[DFF]

When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross. Now I don't if that's a fair assessment, but you have to wonder about someone making these kinds of statements, like he's the only conservative Republican or subtlety implying that.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Way to go Theo! tones (Psssssss....Ron Paul is a christian....shhh do'nt tell anybody)One who understands the just war doctrine and doesn't wish to control other people.

Maybe if he'd become a pastor instead of a politician, we'd be in better shape.

[LibertyEagle]

I agree with Theocracy.

As far as the gay marriage issue goes...i don't think it was Christians who made a deal out of it..it was the gay folks. i'll say this again, whoever someone chooses as a partner is none of my business. When i am forced to a vote..i have to vote my morals and values. i will always vote my morals and values. I would say there were a lot of non christians who also voted for the one man one woman amendment. 60% of the voters in florida voted for one man one woman...i'm sure they were not all christians. i wish marriage was not up to the state at all ..for anyone. Tones

Just curious. Why not vote for what you believe is right and just? If you honestly believe that whomever someone chooses as a partner is none of your business, why would you vote to cram your idea of morality down their throats? The item on the ballot didn't ask you what your view of morality was; it asked you what you wanted to use government to force others to do.

[HenryKnoxFineBooks]

Tones, Thomas Paine, one of my favorite writers, was an atheist. Almost militant.

[kathy88]

You're right.

And damn the part in bold reminds me of a certain quote, can't remember it exactly but I'm looking... Someone help me out here.




No kidding, Tones isn't the only one who wants drugs illegal, the dealers probably want it that way too. Keeps the price up.

God forbid families, churches, etc be the primary warriors against immorality, that is clearly not cutting it so we need the state to do it.
zomg we can't trust families to teach their kids either, here comes public education.


if drugs were decriminalized I'd be a pot farmer

[Anti Federalist]

I guess some of the gay people are thinking the same thing.

I agree that it is a state issue, but for the life of me, I don't see why anyone would want to stop them from having civil unions. What am I missing? How does someone else's relationship infringe on your liberty?

Consistency in convictions is key. I look at it the same way, while I find the idea, on a personal level, rather repugnant, but that's me. So go ahead and marry a rooster for all care, leave me out of it and leave the state out of it.

What's frustrating is that consistency doesn't cut both ways.

I recall reading a News McNuggets (USA Today) article the other day, in which was quoted one of the attorneys that is spearheading the repeal or reversal effort of Prop 8.

He was indignantly fulminating about how the "majority cannot vote away the rights of the minority".

Hmmm...I said to myself, I wonder what this fellow has to say when the "majority" votes to increase my taxes or ban my guns?

BTW, it was fun talking to you a while back. Enjoyed the "meeting". :)

[tonesforjonesbones]

I have the right to vote based on whatever I WANT. So Liberty, you think you should tell me what I should base my vote on?? How is that MY liberty as an individual. i get my guidence from NATURES GOD...isnt' that the best way? Thomas Jefferson seemed to think it is. Tones

[LibertyEagle]

I have the right to vote based on whatever I WANT. So Liberty, you think you should tell me what I should base my vote on?? How is that MY liberty as an individual. i get my guidence from NATURES GOD...isnt' that the best way? Thomas Jefferson seemed to think it is. Tones

I didn't tell you how to vote, Tones. What I did was point out what seemed to be hypocrisy in what you were saying.

How can you say this in one breath...

i'll say this again, whoever someone chooses as a partner is none of my business.

And then turn right around and say...

When i am forced to a vote..i have to vote my morals and values. i will always vote my morals and values.

Did I misunderstand something, or did you just imply that you didn't think who someone chose as their partner was any of your business, but that you would throw that to the wind and vote in such a way that it would MAKE it part of your business?

By the way, since when are we FORCED to vote?

[tonesforjonesbones]

When it is put to a vote it becomes my business. Tones

[Truth Warrior]

"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is." -- Ronald Reagan

[Spirit of '76]

Tones, Thomas Paine, one of my favorite writers, was an atheist. Almost militant.

Thomas Paine was a deist who spoke of combatting fanaticism in religion "by reason and morality" and combating atheism "by natural philosophy".

"But when the divine gift of reason begins to expand itself in the mind and calls man to reflection, he then reads and contemplates God and His works, and not in the books pretending to be revelation. The creation is the Bible of the true believer in God. Everything in this vast volume inspires him with sublime ideas of the Creator. The little and paltry, and often obscene, tales of the Bible sink into wretchedness when put in comparison with this mighty work.

The Deist needs none of those tricks and shows called miracles to confirm his faith, for what can be a greater miracle than the creation itself, and his own existence?

There is a happiness in Deism, when rightly understood, that is not to be found in any other system of religion. All other systems have something in them that either shock our reason, or are repugnant to it, and man, if he thinks at all, must stifle his reason in order to force himself to believe them.

But in Deism our reason and our belief become happily united. The wonderful structure of the universe, and everything we behold in the system of the creation, prove to us, far better than books can do, the existence of a God, and at the same time proclaim His attributes."

Or how 'bout...

"...the only true religion is Deism, by which I then meant, and mean now, the belief of one God, and an imitation of his moral character, or the practice of what are called moral virtues – and that it was upon this only (so far as religion is concerned) that I rested all my hopes of happiness hereafter. So say I now – and so help me God."


Those hardly sound like the words of a militant atheist.

[LibertyEagle]

When it is put to a vote it becomes my business. Tones

So basically, you are in favor of using government force to impose your view of morality on others.

Ok, got it.

[Spirit of '76]

I always loved this line from Voltaire:

"I have no morals, yet I am a very moral person."

[tonesforjonesbones]

I must make decisions based on my belief system. Not on others believe system. I would prefer there would be no marriage to the state...unfortunately, there is. If that's the case Liberty...then we woldn't vote for anything right? The people SPOKE. The system WORKED . Either way...the government is going to FORCE somebody isn't it? So, I guess you say...we just shouldn't vote because it's going to force somebody into something they don't want. I'm tired of this. It is very simple. The issue got on the ballot, I voted my concience. Kiss my grits if you don't like the way I voted. Tones

[Elwar]

I just sent this to Huckabee:

Hi, I'd like to make a comment about your hatred for libertarians in your new book, but first I'd like for you to hold this shiny new gauntlet that I just bought...

Oops...you just dropped it.

[angelatc]

So basically, you are in favor of using government force to impose your view of morality on others.

Ok, got it.

Actually, it seems that she is in favor of using government as a defense from being involved in the morality of others.

If they don't care what she thinks, then they shouldn't ask her to vote on it.

[HenryKnoxFineBooks]

Thomas Paine was a deist who spoke of combatting fanaticism in religion "by reason and morality" and combating atheism "by natural philosophy".

"But when the divine gift of reason begins to expand itself in the mind and calls man to reflection, he then reads and contemplates God and His works, and not in the books pretending to be revelation. The creation is the Bible of the true believer in God. Everything in this vast volume inspires him with sublime ideas of the Creator. The little and paltry, and often obscene, tales of the Bible sink into wretchedness when put in comparison with this mighty work.

The Deist needs none of those tricks and shows called miracles to confirm his faith, for what can be a greater miracle than the creation itself, and his own existence?

There is a happiness in Deism, when rightly understood, that is not to be found in any other system of religion. All other systems have something in them that either shock our reason, or are repugnant to it, and man, if he thinks at all, must stifle his reason in order to force himself to believe them.

But in Deism our reason and our belief become happily united. The wonderful structure of the universe, and everything we behold in the system of the creation, prove to us, far better than books can do, the existence of a God, and at the same time proclaim His attributes."

Or how 'bout...

"...the only true religion is Deism, by which I then meant, and mean now, the belief of one God, and an imitation of his moral character, or the practice of what are called moral virtues – and that it was upon this only (so far as religion is concerned) that I rested all my hopes of happiness hereafter. So say I now – and so help me God."


Those hardly sound like the words of a militant atheist.

ok, militant may be too harsh, is why i said almost. He writes as one who is an atheist, who must abide by his ages morality.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
-- Thomas Paine, (1737-1809), The Age of Reason, pt. 1, "The Author's Profession of Faith" (1794), quoted from The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

There is scarcely any part of science, or anything in nature, which those imposters and blasphemers of science, called priests, as well Christians as Jews, have not, at some time or other, perverted, or sought to pervert to the purpose of superstition and falsehood.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing and admits of no conclusion.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1793-5), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations

Everything wonderful in appearance has been ascribed to angels, to devils, or to saints. Everything ancient has some legendary tale annexed to it. The common operations of nature have not escaped their practice of corrupting everything.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)

The Bible: a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalise mankind.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1793-5), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations

The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

The Bible is a book that has been read more, and examined less, than any book that ever existed.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

Priests and conjurors are of the same trade.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1793), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)

As to the Christian system of faith, it appears to me as a species of atheism -- a sort of religious denial of God. It professed to believe in man rather than in God. It is as near to atheism as twilight to darkness. It introduces between man and his Maker an opaque body, which it calls a Redeemer, as the moon introduces her opaque self between the earth and the sun, and it produces by this means a religious or irreligious eclipse of the light. It has put the whole orbit of reason into shade.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)

[MikeStanart]

No i don't agree with forcing my religon through legislation...i'd just like for the christian hate to stop..or at least offer respect. Christian european white folks have been demonized for about 50 years...we're gettin real tired of it. Tones

I'm a Christian European White folk,

And I think you're bonkers.

[tonesforjonesbones]

The founders had an issue with the church, remember? Not the religion. The pilgrims came for religious freedom...they were VERY religious people..Christians..Never forget that. I went and read all that I could find about the original pilgrims ...only 102 of them came. The government they set up had separation of church and state...even the first comers did not mix the two. That was all handed down to those who penned our Constitution. It's really an interesting read. Tones

[Shotdown1027]

"The pilgrims came for religious freedom..."

Wrong. The Pilgrams came and established a full-blooded theocracy at Plymouth Rock. People of different religions were outcast or killed.

[Truth Warrior]

"The pilgrims came for religious freedom..."

Wrong. The Pilgrams came and established a full-blooded theocracy at Plymouth Rock. People of different religions were outcast or killed. Perhaps the Pilgrims merely wanted the "religious freedom" to outcast and kill. ;) :D

[tonesforjonesbones]

Where are you getting this information? that is a LIE...Stop with the revisionist history. Why don't you read what those pilgrims actually wrote? There isn't much of it..so how do you conclude this bullshit. You must be indians! Just STOP the nonsense. tones

[SnappleLlama]

There isn't much of it..so how do you conclude this bullshit. You must be indians! Just STOP the nonsense. tones

:confused::confused::confused:

LOL...I love this thread!

[Spirit of '76]

ok, militant may be too harsh, is why i said almost. He writes as one who is an atheist, who must abide by his ages morality.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
-- Thomas Paine, (1737-1809), The Age of Reason, pt. 1, "The Author's Profession of Faith" (1794), quoted from The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

There is scarcely any part of science, or anything in nature, which those imposters and blasphemers of science, called priests, as well Christians as Jews, have not, at some time or other, perverted, or sought to pervert to the purpose of superstition and falsehood.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing and admits of no conclusion.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1793-5), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations

Everything wonderful in appearance has been ascribed to angels, to devils, or to saints. Everything ancient has some legendary tale annexed to it. The common operations of nature have not escaped their practice of corrupting everything.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)

The Bible: a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalise mankind.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1793-5), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations

The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

The Bible is a book that has been read more, and examined less, than any book that ever existed.
-- Thomas Paine, as quoted by Joseph Lewis in Inspiration and Wisdom from the Writings of Thomas Paine

Priests and conjurors are of the same trade.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1793), quoted from Jonathon Green, The Cassell Dictionary of Cynical Quotations

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)

As to the Christian system of faith, it appears to me as a species of atheism -- a sort of religious denial of God. It professed to believe in man rather than in God. It is as near to atheism as twilight to darkness. It introduces between man and his Maker an opaque body, which it calls a Redeemer, as the moon introduces her opaque self between the earth and the sun, and it produces by this means a religious or irreligious eclipse of the light. It has put the whole orbit of reason into shade.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)

Yes, but those quotes are taken quite out of context. Paine does indeed criticize the organized religions, particularly Christianity, in quite harsh terms. But then he usually goes on to point out that the world around is all the proof we need for the existence of God. This is Deism, not atheism.

He is quite clear that he is not an atheist -- as I mentioned before, he talks about combating atheism. He states quite clearly that he is a Deist with a belief in the Creator which is not bound by any dogmatic religious code or scripture.

One need only read "Age of Reason" to see this. In the very first sentence, he says, "I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life."

His last will and testament ends with these words: "I die in perfect composure and resignation to the will of my Creator, God."

No atheist would write that, certainly.

Late for work. Gotta run. Thanks for the discussion. :)

[Truth Warrior]

Where are you getting this information? that is a LIE...Stop with the revisionist history. Why don't you read what those pilgrims actually wrote? There isn't much of it..so how do you conclude this bullshit. You must be indians! Just STOP the nonsense. tones "Official" history is merely written by the winners. Any correlation to REALITY and TRUTH is merely accidental and unintentional.

Revision ON! ;) :)

[JohnJay]

OK, that crap from Huckabee has made me madder than anything I've seen lately. :mad: He can go straight to hell! . . .

We agree - with the "faux-cons" bs from Muck Hickabee . . .

the Arkansas lardhead just became our GOP enemy #1 for 2011, (with an ideology not going to survive much into 2012 whether or not RP gets into the race) -
about as much as Judy Riuliani was dissed throughout 2007.

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/GovernorMikeHukabeeToursIsraelV6Meu.jpg

[tonesforjonesbones]

Truth..have you read the writings of the original pilgrims? you should go read it. Everything they had from them is preserved in it's original form in a museum in boston. There isn't much ...they spoke VERY highly of the indians..it was a year before any native approached the pilgrims and said "welcome" ..in english. So, you presume to just "fill in the blanks" as to what was going on at that time? The true founders of our government system were those 102 pilgrims that landed here...only 50 of them survived the winter. I can't believe any of you would say these things...if you are saying this stuff it is out of political correctness...and revisionist brainwashing. There are NO writings from the indians because they didn't WRITE. Either you honor the Founders or you don't...bottom line. tones

[Andrew-Austin]

Where are you getting this information? that is a LIE...Stop with the revisionist history. Why don't you read what those pilgrims actually wrote? There isn't much of it..so how do you conclude this bullshit. You must be indians! Just STOP the nonsense. tones

Speaking of Indians, the pilgrims killed plenty of those too.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Those pilgrims bought the land from those indians...there are also title deeds in the original form preserved in the museum. Problem was...the indians didn't understand property rights..and they came back and did whatever they wanted to on the land after they sold it. tones

[Andrew-Austin]

Those pilgrims bought the land from those indians...there are also title deeds in the original form preserved in the museum. Problem was...the indians didn't understand property rights..and they came back and did whatever they wanted to on the land after they sold it. tones

You just seem to be just selectively choosing vaguely remembered lines out of a government history book, not really having a good idea what you are talking about.

This thread has been going no where for the past several pages.

[tonesforjonesbones]

That is NONSENSE...i TOlD you i went and read the writings of the pilgrims..here is a link..go read it for yourself. tones

http://www.pilgrimhall.org/museum.htm

[tonesforjonesbones]

i get so sick of arguing with nimrods. If we can't agree on the ORIGINAL HISTORY of this country...then we can't take it back. You can NOT live in a brainwashed politically correct world and expect to take this country back. It is best to go back to the history that is CLOSEST TO THE EVENT. tones

[JohnJay]

with the "faux-cons" bs from Muck Hickabee . . .

the Arkansas lardhead just became our GOP enemy #1 for 2011, (with an ideology not going to survive much into 2012 whether or not RP gets into the race) -
about as much as Judy Riuliani was dissed throughout 2007.

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/GovernorMikeHukabeeToursIsraelV6Meu.jpg

Huckabee wants to be the new fascist for the GOP - carrying a cross draped in the flag . . .

but he had better tread carefully with the "walking on water" part.

Even with ice now forming over the Iowa rivers, he won't get out very far this time before he cracks right through and sinks to the bottom.

[Truth Warrior]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/when_fascism_comes_300.gif

[Andrew-Austin]

That is NONSENSE...i TOlD you i went and read the writings of the pilgrims..here is a link..go read it for yourself. tones

http://www.pilgrimhall.org/museum.htm

ZOMG UR SO RESEARCHED



1. That site does not exactly look like its concerned with objectivity, as a museum it seems more concerned with presenting one side of early American colonization - the bright side. Not that there is anything wrong with that, however its not the full picture.

2. Selectively choosing some of the pilgrim's writings does not give you a good idea of how some of the first colonies started out. If you were writing a diary, or a letter trying to encourage more people to come to the new land from England, you wouldn't mention how you had to resort to cannibalism and looting the Indians just to survive. First person sources are not always infallible.

All I'm trying to say is that you should be more opened minded instead of so arrogant, most of your posts seem to be nothing but blurry rhetoric.

[TastyWheat]

My message:

Sorry Huckabee, the cat's out of the bag and no amount of sucking up would've stopped me from sending this message. I put it to you that YOU and the religious right are what's wrong with the Republican party. Our fore-fathers did not suffer through a harrowing journey across the Atlantic and a war with England just so tyranny and religious law can be brought back 200 years later. Although many of them were Christian, some were not, and they rejoiced in the freedom to believe whatever they wanted to believe without persecution. I care not if you want to spread the word of God from a pulpit, a soap box, a book, a magazine, a newspaper, a radio or a TV show. Don't you feel proud, don't you feel blessed to live in a country where you can where your faith on your sleeve and not only receive no punishment for it, but you are protected by those who violently oppose your views? In some countries, based on religious law, it is perfectly acceptable to kill a family member for dishonoring the family. Do we want to become so wrapped up in religion and morality that basic human rights no longer apply? I do not disagree that morality and spirituality are lofty goals, but governments, which are meant to protect the rights of the people, are not the proper vehicles to reach those goals. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are rights given to us by God. The #1 infringer of these rights though, is government.

[Elwar]

I get my morality from the teachings of Ayn Rand and the morality of the individual.

I tend to work to get the government to subscribe to my morals through force (or lack thereof).

[Kilrain]

Here is another thing I'm getting sick of...the pilgrims did NOT cut the head off of an indian chief and kick it around like a ball on Thanksgiving. The pilgrims did NOT steal land from the indians..they PURCHASED the land from the indians. I get so sick of revisionist history. I just went and read all the old writings of the original pilgrims that I could find. Even though the europeans expanded..and pushed the natives over...the pilgrims did NOT steal the land. There were only 102 original pilgrims..and half of them died during the winter. yes, some of the natives were not immune to sicknesses brought by the pilgrims but there is NO evidence the pilgrims gave the indians blankets filled with smallpox. NONSENSE. Matter of fact..one of the european gentlemen saved the life of the native chief. There were issues later...but a lot of that stuff is just nonsense. tones

:eek: You have a very poor understanding of colonial America. Not that I care, the natives lost, whatever, but don't try to sugarcoat it like that. Lying, or re-telling lies told to you, is just bad karma.

Regarding the actual topic, I just don't understand how social conservatives think. I'm Christian, but as a Lutheran, I was taught that salvation is a matter between me and God. Going to church is pretty much irrelevant and trying to play culture-warrior and legislating morality would get me a ticket to Hell as I understand it. It is not for you to judge, it is for Him to judge. Assuming that you have to right to enforce His will=a trip to the furnace when you pass on.

[melissa22]

Huckabee wants to be the new fascist for the GOP - carrying a cross draped in the flag . . .

but he had better tread carefully with the "walking on water" part.

Even with ice now forming over the Iowa rivers, he won't get out very far this time before he cracks right through and sinks to the bottom.

Religious fascism?

[melissa22]

Quote:
Here is another thing I'm getting sick of...the pilgrims did NOT cut the head off of an indian chief and kick it around like a ball on Thanksgiving. The pilgrims did NOT steal land from the indians..they PURCHASED the land from the indians. I get so sick of revisionist history. I just went and read all the old writings of the original pilgrims that I could find. Even though the europeans expanded..and pushed the natives over...the pilgrims did NOT steal the land. There were only 102 original pilgrims..and half of them died during the winter. yes, some of the natives were not immune to sicknesses brought by the pilgrims but there is NO evidence the pilgrims gave the indians blankets filled with smallpox. NONSENSE. Matter of fact..one of the european gentlemen saved the life of the native chief. There were issues later...but a lot of that stuff is just nonsense. tones



I see what you're saying but WHO CARES? MONGOLOID-INDIANS AREN'T EVEN NATIVE TO THIS COUNTRY. They come from asia and actually came in AFTER the original Caucasoids(european rooted) did.

Evidence.

http://first-americans.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJ1XL65Jfw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrfSGizvRPM

[JeNNiF00F00]

Homah..yes we are pulling the GOP back to morality. More to the Goldwater, early Reagan days. The GOP IS supposed to be Limited government, non interventionism, (although the bankers control foreign policy on both sides), Fiscal responsibility, balanced budgets, possibly the Fair Tax, but not the social liberalism embraced by the Libertarian Party. And for the poster above ..please read Thomas Paine Society and Government. You must have a moral society to have very little government....immorality FORCES government force. Tones

Limited government sounds great, however Immorality Forces is going to cause blow back. My question is, who is to determine what is moral and who gives them the right over god to judge me and my actions? Do what you please when it comes to YOUR life but please don't tread on me and my liberties.

[AggieforPaul]

Is anyone else encouraged that an establishment candidate is afraid Ron Paul wields enough influence to split the party? I sure am. I've heard an establishment hack so candidly express that fear.

[JeNNiF00F00]

if drugs were decriminalized I'd be a pot farmer

I think most of us would be. :D

[georgiaboy]

Was Huckabee not paying attention? The growth in the party - the youth - were excited about only one man representing one philosophy:

Ron Paul, the libertarian conservative:
Individual Liberty
Sound Money
End the Fed
Non-Interventionism
Strong Defense
Follow the Constitution
Reduce Taxes
Shrink Federal Gov't to Constitutional Levels by eliminating entire Departments
Protect Freedom & Property
Free the Markets
Free Trade

Mike, what part of this is confusing to you? The GOP lost this year, and will continue to lose, if it does not re-embrace its core libertarian conservative message.

[georgiaboy]

Mike, are you going opposite Paul in some twisted way to promote sales of your new book due to the resulting controversy?

This seems quite contrary from what your buddy Chuck Norris was doing a few months back.

[JeNNiF00F00]

I am not a he..and I am not a neo con. Do you even know what a neoconservative is? Doubtful that you do. Google neoconservative. I am a Ron Paul Republican...i'm a paleoconservative. Ron Paul is a paleoconservative like Pat Buchanan, Goldwater etc. tones

Most of us here are Ron Paul republicans. Why are you so hyper?? Ron Paul wants us to have freedoms, and that consists of being able to make our own choices on being gay, druggies or even gay druggies etc., instead of having morals of others stuffed down our throats! Why are you so hyper? You like Huckabee and come across as a major fascist which is anti Dr. Paul. Why are you so hyper?

[moostraks]

Where are you getting this information? that is a LIE...Stop with the revisionist history. Why don't you read what those pilgrims actually wrote? There isn't much of it..so how do you conclude this bullshit. You must be indians! Just STOP the nonsense. tones

William Bradford's Of Plimoth Plantation is a very hefty read. Have you read it?
It is the journal of a govenor of Plymouth colony, and leader of the seperatist church.

Church attendance was mandatory for the colony. This would not exactly be seen as free from religious persecution since each town was its own congregation. However moving away could be seen as an option, I suppose. Not exactly as easy as it seems though...

[mrwiizrd]

Is anyone else encouraged that an establishment candidate is afraid Ron Paul wields enough influence to split the party? I sure am. I've heard an establishment hack so candidly express that fear.

That's a good point, no publicity is bad publicity.

Oh, and Gig'em, class of '03.

[Flash]

I see what you're saying but WHO CARES? MONGOLOID-INDIANS AREN'T EVEN NATIVE TO THIS COUNTRY. They come from asia and actually came in AFTER the original Caucasoids(european rooted) did.

Evidence.

http://first-americans.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJ1XL65Jfw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrfSGizvRPM

Yeah the documentary Ice Age Columbus talks about this, it is all very interesting.

[moostraks]

Those pilgrims bought the land from those indians...there are also title deeds in the original form preserved in the museum. Problem was...the indians didn't understand property rights..and they came back and did whatever they wanted to on the land after they sold it. tones

As for indians, Miles Standish took forth with a pre-emptive strike on the Indians in the second year because he found evidence an indian attack was planned which led to this report regarding the indians by Edward Winslow who likewise served as Plymouth Colony Governor , in his 1624 memoirs Good News from New England, reports that "they forsook their houses, running to and fro like men distracted, living in swamps and other desert places, and so brought manifold diseases amongst themselves, whereof very many are dead". Guess it just backs up that preemptive war theory since they are just evil heathen followers of a corrupt religion.:rolleyes:

Furthermore, since the pilgrims did not have any noteable contact with the indians until after squatting on their land and establishing dwellings, it is hard to put much confidence in any so called title deeds. Not too many would appreciate selling property under such terms nowadays.

[ninepointfive]

The more I read tones' posts, the more I wonder how someone so different from my Ron Paul could still support Ron Paul.

You are seriously a trip, woman!



I guess we are aligned on the financial conservative plank, not freedom from state sponsored morality.

[dr. hfn]

bump! Email that NEO-CON!!!

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am a Ron Paul republican. i am a patriot. i honor the Founding Fathers...and our country started with the pilgrims. I am not politically correct because I search for truth. I have no white guilt. I am for the Constitution. I am convinced that lack of morals and values from the top down has pretty much desroyed this country. I believe that the grassroots republicans are our best bet to take this country back to it's foundations. I am a Christian. I believe that Christianity formed our country because the folks who landed here from Britian paved the way. I have my views and they are mine. I have the God given right to them. I am 52 years old and i have witnessed this country go from a prosperous , fairly moral place...to babylon. I watched it go down. Pity. Tones

[Dorfsmith]

bump! Email that NEO-CON!!!

Done.

[LibertyEagle]

Was Huckabee not paying attention? The growth in the party - the youth - were excited about only one man representing one philosophy:

Ron Paul, the libertarian conservative:
Individual Liberty
Sound Money
End the Fed
Non-Interventionism
Strong Defense
Follow the Constitution
Reduce Taxes
Shrink Federal Gov't to Constitutional Levels by eliminating entire Departments
Protect Freedom & Property
Free the Markets
Free Trade

Mike, what part of this is confusing to you? The GOP lost this year, and will continue to lose, if it does not re-embrace its core libertarian conservative message.

Great post. :)

[tonesforjonesbones]

Mike Huckabee expressed positive views on 90% of that list. There is only one Ron Paul. Let me ask you this. If there was a candidate that pledged to uphold 50% of that list would you support? I would say that is making headway. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

This will not happen over night. It is a long process. if we could get a candidate that would at LEAST accomplish 50% that would be a miracle. tones

[SnappleLlama]

Mike Huckabee expressed positive views on 90% of that list. There is only one Ron Paul. Let me ask you this. If there was a candidate that pledged to uphold 50% of that list would you support? I would say that is making headway. Tones

Nope.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Snapple, do you know how much was stricken from the Declaration of Independence? The Constitution? Do you not believe in some compromises to get 50% of our agenda ? if you don't my dear, you will be sorely disappointed all your life. sigh. Tones

[SnappleLlama]

Snapple, do you know how much was stricken from the Declaration of Independence? The Constitution? Do you not believe in some compromises to get 50% of our agenda ? if you don't my dear, you will be sorely disappointed all your life. sigh. Tones

I don't believe in compromising my principles, and neither does Bunchies!!

http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00873/38/23/873873283_s.gif

[tonesforjonesbones]

We will never get anywhere with that outlook. I consider 50% major. tones

[SnappleLlama]

We will never get anywhere with that outlook. I consider 50% major. tones

50% is still a failing grade. ;)

[tonesforjonesbones]

I choose to see the glass half full. tones

[nbhadja]

Mike Huckabee expressed positive views on 90% of that list. There is only one Ron Paul. Let me ask you this. If there was a candidate that pledged to uphold 50% of that list would you support? I would say that is making headway. Tones

First you support McCain and now you support Fuckabee?
You are a neocon.

Enjoy your big government and wars.

Oh and one thing that destroyed the Republican party and turned it into the Big government party were social "conservatives." Those jackasses fucked up the party, the Republican party is only supposed to be about the constitution and small government, not religion.

In fact, using the government to deny gay marriage , drugs etc is liberal.

The moron social "conservatives" only care about enforcing their religious views though the government, they do not even care about small government.

[LibertyEagle]

This will not happen over night. It is a long process. if we could get a candidate that would at LEAST accomplish 50% that would be a miracle. tones

Yes, but that is not Huckabee. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth, Tones.

[Paulitical Correctness]

I demand Chuck Norris issue a statement against Huckleberry!

[JohnJay]

Beware, Muck Hickabee is a faux Republican and a true fascist - carrying a cross and wrapped in the flag.

[Dorfsmith]

Beware, Muck Hickabee is a faux Republican and a true fascist - carrying a cross and wrapped in the flag.

Yes! Everytime I think of Huckabee I think of Ron using that quote for Huckabee. :cool:

[The_Orlonater]

First you support McCain and now you support Fuckabee?
You are a neocon.

Enjoy your big government and wars.

Oh and one thing that destroyed the Republican party and turned it into the Big government party were social "conservatives." Those jackasses fucked up the party, the Republican party is only supposed to be about the constitution and small government, not religion.

In fact, using the government to deny gay marriage , drugs etc is liberal.

The moron social "conservatives" only care about enforcing their religious views though the government, they do not even care about small government.

+1

Stop posting tones.

[Knightskye]

I was wondering why my thread had thousands of views and 20 pages of posts.

An argument.

Least it'll stay bumped.

Have you guys e-mailed the show's producers/whoever and asked them to invite Dr. Paul on the show?

[westmich4paul]

He's coming to Des Moines on the 20th.

http://www.zvents.com/des-moines-ia/events/show/85065686-mike-huckabee-on-tour-for-book-do-the-right-thing-inside-the-movement-thats-bringing-common-sense-back-to-america

Would it be rude to ask him to sign my copy of The Revolution: A Manifesto? ;)
Going to Des Moines to a Huckabee book signing $100.00

Cost of food while there $100.00

Asking Mike to sign Ron Paul to your copy of The Revolution because he pretty much stole all his points from Paul during the primaries anyways = Priceless!

[RockEnds]

I am a Ron Paul republican. i am a patriot. i honor the Founding Fathers...and our country started with the pilgrims. I am not politically correct because I search for truth. I have no white guilt. I am for the Constitution. I am convinced that lack of morals and values from the top down has pretty much desroyed this country. I believe that the grassroots republicans are our best bet to take this country back to it's foundations. I am a Christian. I believe that Christianity formed our country because the folks who landed here from Britian paved the way. I have my views and they are mine. I have the God given right to them. I am 52 years old and i have witnessed this country go from a prosperous , fairly moral place...to babylon. I watched it go down. Pity. Tones

One of my family history books started with the Pilgrims as well. Here's an excerpt:


But with all her power and all her greatness she [New England] has a bar upon her escutcheon which time never can efface and history never forget. It was her religious persecution and fanaticism. No sooner had our Pilgrim fathers found themselves free from the religious oppressions of their native land, than they assumed the right to dictate, and usurped the power to say which was the true church, and to condemn the unbelievers. The followers of George Fox, the founder of the Society of Friends in England, fled to this country that they too might enjoy religious freedom; but no sooner did they arrive here than they were branded by the Puritan clergy as witches, heretics, and of being possessed of the devil. And the heartrending cruelties of the reformation were reenacted. The people derisively called the Friends, Quakers, and every one appearing in the plain and simple garb of a Friend was immediately subjected to every possible indignity; nor were women or children spared. Women and young girls were stripped to the waist and lashed in the public squares until the blood flowed to the very ground, they unflinchingly suffered their ears to be cut off, unmercifully were they tied to the tails of carts and dragged through the streets, and with an unfaltering step and a quiet, serene countenance did both men and women ascend the scaffold aud there render up their lives, without a reproach upon their lips; and for what? for the sake of their religion. The sufferings and persecutions of the early Friends is a sad history, and in reviewing the history of New England we approach this period with feelings of both regret and gratification. Regret that such dark days should ever have hung over New England; gratification, that she has thrown off that mantle of darkness and has secured to her people unlimited religious liberty.

This subject, the persecution of Friends, was not touched upon without great reluctance in this work, but as it exercised so much influence over the actions of our ancestors it became necessary....

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=SfM1AAAAMAAJ&dq=Genealogy+of+the+Macy+Family&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=ALo1NrRzsE&sig=00sopRYK3e2WSyquSAqvfbSdusk&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA3,M1
pp 13 & 14


Fortunately, the Constitution was not written by the Pilgrims.

[tribute_13]

Disciples? I take offense to that... :rolleyes:

[Knightskye]

Disciples? I take offense to that... :rolleyes:

Li'l Bo Mike lost his Huck Army. Or Huckabee Rangers. What were they called? :D

[trey4sports]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

[Redacted by Moderator] or did you just come out of the woodwork supporting Huckleberry?

[dr. hfn]

Huckabee is a theocrat fascist! He wants to regulate and legislate morality! He cares not for the separation of church and state! He is a religious neo-con imperialist conservative!

Fuck Huck! Fuck Huck! Fuck Huck!

[tonesforjonesbones]

I do not FEAr Christianity..i am a christian. I heard huckabee on Hannity on the radio and he sounded very libertarian. I would rather have someone who stands for 50% of the Ron Paul platform than someone like Newt or charlie crist who will not. Tones

[Dorfsmith]

Huckabee is a theocrat fascist! He wants to regulate and legislate morality! He cares not for the separation of church and state! He is a religious neo-con imperialist conservative!

Fuck Huck! Fuck Huck! Fuck Huck!

Stole the thoughts out of my head :D

[Dorfsmith]

Well...I'm going to tell you this. I was listening to the radio this afternoon and had NO idea who was speaking. I was cheering him on...he was saying some VERY libertarian things. I couldn't believe Sean Hannity had this guy on his show...and it dawned on me it was Mike Huckabee. He discussed the constitution, states rights, the Founding Fathers, Thomas Paine...yep. Sure did...He reminded the listeners about Thomas Paines "Common Sense"..and about how the only way individual sovereignty can work is if you have a MORAL society. The KEY WORDS are MORAL SOCIETY. Libertarians are SOCIAL LIBERALS...period. I submit you who are libertarians please STAY in the libertarian party please. The Republicans are going BACK to paleoconservativsm....and we are going to maintain our stance on a MORAL SOCIETY. If you libertarians want your druggin, gay, porn, gambling ways...just stay in the LP where you are. I am a paleoconservative Christian...and we will be pulling the GOP back to MORALITY! Tones

Cool. Sounds like I made the right choice when I left the Republican party. :)

[tonesforjonesbones]

dorf...that's fine. tones

[angelatc]

Yes! Everytime I think of Huckabee I think of Ron using that quote for Huckabee. :cool:

God that was funny! I remember calling my husband saying "You won't believe this - Ron Paul just called Huckabee a fascist!" :)

[Dorfsmith]

dorf...that's fine. tones

I feel pretty darn good about leaving the Republican party. But it's nice to know you guys will be out there keeping me healthy and clean and gambling free and making sure I don't have sex with another man. :)

[Theocrat]

Cool. Sounds like I made the right choice when I left the Republican party. :)

You should come join a true conservative party, like the Constitution Party. :D

[Dorfsmith]

God that was funny! I remember calling my husband saying "You won't believe this - Ron Paul just called Huckabee a fascist!" :)

It is one of my fondest memories of the campaign :D

[tonesforjonesbones]

I don't have anythibng against gambling...i have played gigs on MANY gambling ships. I just think it isn't necessarily a top priority when we are facing communism. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

I actually wish they would legalize gambling in my town..more work. tones

[Andrew Ryan]

God that was funny! I remember calling my husband saying "You won't believe this - Ron Paul just called Huckabee a fascist!" :)
You're a woman?

[Shotdown1027]

Her RPF name is "Angelatc"

Angel? Angela?

Both girls.

[melissa22]

Tones is right. Any Ron Paul republican is okay in my book.




I am a Ron Paul republican. i am a patriot. i honor the Founding Fathers...and our country started with the pilgrims. I am not politically correct because I search for truth. I have no white guilt. I am for the Constitution. I am convinced that lack of morals and values from the top down has pretty much desroyed this country. I believe that the grassroots republicans are our best bet to take this country back to it's foundations. I am a Christian. I believe that Christianity formed our country because the folks who landed here from Britian paved the way. I have my views and they are mine. I have the God given right to them. I am 52 years old and i have witnessed this country go from a prosperous , fairly moral place...to babylon. I watched it go down. Pity. Tones

[raiha]

Huckabee the wannabee

[moostraks]

The only libertarian things that came out of Huckabee's mouth are ideas he stole from Dr.Paul because he thought that we were a bunch of idiots who just bought into sound bytes without checking a person's veracity. He is a viscious, petty person with an ego a mile wide. I think he sank his ship with the hunting trip where he claimed the dead were his opponents, nice morality there.

[escapinggreatly]

I love how he thinks that libertarians are the problem with the Republican Party.
__________________

http://www.meltingpotproject.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/22/libertariansig.jpg
The Melting Pot Project: Proportional Representation. New Parties. Intern Jokes. (http://www.meltingpotproject.com/)

[werdd]

fuckabee

[Dary]

What Jesus and the bible really said about consensual crimes.

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/403a.htm

[LibertyEagle]

I do not FEAr Christianity..i am a christian. I heard huckabee on Hannity on the radio and he sounded very libertarian. I would rather have someone who stands for 50% of the Ron Paul platform than someone like Newt or charlie crist who will not. Tones

ONE MORE TIME. It's very easy for Huckabee to start spouting these ideas; it is quite another for him to believe and practice them. TONES, GO RESEARCH THIS GUY. HE IS A DIRT BAG. He is dangling a carrot to people who have some vague recall of what true conservatism is and trying to trick you into jumping onto his false bandwagon. Just like Fred Thompson.

Look, I would vote for someone like Pat Buchanan. In fact I DID. I realize there is only one Ron Paul. But, Huckabee is not what you think he is. Don't fall for it.

[speciallyblend]

ONE MORE TIME. It's very easy for Huckabee to start spouting these ideas; it is quite another for him to believe and practice them. TONES, GO RESEARCH THIS GUY. HE IS A DIRT BAG. He is dangling a carrot to people who have some vague recall of what true conservatism is and trying to trick you into jumping onto his false bandwagon. Just like Fred Thompson.

Look, I would vote for someone like Pat Buchanan. In fact I DID. I realize there is only one Ron Paul. But, Huckabee is not what you think he is. Don't fall for it.

100% TRUE, Huckabee is full of S___!

[TonySutton]

To get this thread back on topic,

I sent a letter to Huckabee reminding him of Reagans words from 1975 :P

[tonesforjonesbones]

Did he jump on the Ron Paul bandwagon? Or has he had this view for awhile. He has been for the Fair Tax for awhile now. If Huckabee is talking about these things...I consider it to be a good thing. You are NOT going to find another Ron Paul..with his voting record..etc. As I said before, if we can get 50% of Ron Paul's platform from a candidate...we are heading in the right direction. It is going to take a LONG time to turn people around..and we can either support someone who will help us make the trek back to sanity..or someone who has no chance of going anywhere..like Chuck Baldwin. Tones (i consider this effort to be a more bottom up than a top down anyway...we have to get these Ron Paul types elected on the local and state levels first)

[tonesforjonesbones]

I KNOW Huckabee is a STRONG states rights guy and so is SArah Palin..that is DEFINATELY forward motion. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

Did you hear Huckabee on the hannity radio show the other day Moon? Doubtful..so you have no clue what he said. tones

[Dary]

I KNOW Huckabee is a STRONG states rights guy...

You're joking right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtprTFgcdAI

[tonesforjonesbones]

Yes he is strong on states rights...i remember him being interviewd on one of the news channels...and they started grilling him on the Confederate Flag...he said "Thanks for the bait , but i'm not taking it (referring to race baiting) If washington came down to Arkansas and started trying to tell me what to do with our flag...I'd tell them where to stick the pole."

I LIKE this about Mike Huckabee...he is humerous, and not afraid to say things like that. Tones

[Dary]

Yes he is strong on states rights...

Did you watch the YouTube video that I posted?

When asked the question if he would end the raids on the sick and dying in those states that have passed medical marijuana laws, Hucky should have responded with a resounding "Absolutely. The medical marijuana patients in those states that have passed medical marijuana legislation should have nothing to fear from the federal government and I as president will do everything in my power to be sure that their rights are protected."

That would have been a response from a guy who is strong on states rights.

The "Probably not" answer was nowhere near strong. It was a weak response from a guy who has no respect for the 10th amendment.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Look...this is ALSO the problem I have with libertarians. While I agree that medical marijuana should be legalized, i do NOT consider it a top priority. What the HELL is wrong with the rest of what huckabee said??? he is concerned about the Constitution and second amendment, he is concerned about the FAIR TAX and changing the tax code...he is concerned with getting more affordable health care without socialism, DAMN...you are going to HARP on POT? this is what irritates me with libertarians...pot is not a top priority. Some states are doing OK with it. California for instance. I do NOT consider SOCIAL issues like porn, prostitution, drugs and gambling to be TOP PRIORITIES. I find it RIDICULOUS. I said it before, if we can get a candidate that is going to work on 50% of the Ron Paul platform...YAY! tones

[Dary]

Look...this is ALSO the problem I have with libertarians. While I agree that medical marijuana should be legalized, i do NOT consider it a top priority. What the HELL is wrong with the rest of what huckabee said??? he is concerned about the Constitution and second amendment, he is concerned about the FAIR TAX and changing the tax code...he is concerned with getting more affordable health care without socialism, DAMN...you are going to HARP on POT? this is what irritates me with libertarians...pot is not a top priority. Some states are doing OK with it. California for instance. I do NOT consider SOCIAL issues like porn, prostitution, drugs and gambling to be TOP PRIORITIES. I find it RIDICULOUS. I said it before, if we can get a candidate that is going to work on 50% of the Ron Paul platform...YAY! tones

It's not about pot. It's about states rights. Hucky claims (and so do you) that he is a strong supporter of states rights. But this video clearly proves that he isn't.

[TonySutton]

Tones: You are missing the point. Either he is for states rights and would protect a states right to legalize medical marijuana or he wants to pick and choose which rights the states have.

There is no middle ground. This is a prefect example of why I would not back Huckabee. He is only for states rights when it is good for him. That is not the kind of person liberty lovers should want as a president.

[moostraks]

Did you hear Huckabee on the hannity radio show the other day Moon? Doubtful..so you have no clue what he said. tones

Well played, nope you would not catch me listening to Hannity or Huckabee nowadays. Hannity will rot your brain and make you a bitter person who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is a commie. Huckabee is a false Christian deceiver imo and is not worthy of my time.

I can tell you that Huck learned what played well with our crowd and tried to capitalize on Dr.Paul's popularity and most of us intelligently caught on to the fact he was a sheep in wolf's clothing. Guess he is still trying the same schtick and seeing if he can dupe the unsuspecting into believing he has always been what he now claims to be now. Looks like it is working.

But since he claims to be a Christian I guess he will ring in morality for our society.:rolleyes: Just in case you missed it here is the article for Huckabee's hunting trip.
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=17CBA41B-3048-5C12-004563934B4BF032

[moostraks]

Yes he is strong on states rights...i remember him being interviewd on one of the news channels...and they started grilling him on the Confederate Flag...he said "Thanks for the bait , but i'm not taking it (referring to race baiting) If washington came down to Arkansas and started trying to tell me what to do with our flag...I'd tell them where to stick the pole."

I LIKE this about Mike Huckabee...he is humerous, and not afraid to say things like that. Tones

His humor, if you call it that, is mean spirited and not the least bit Christian.

[tonesforjonesbones]

moon...are you a christian? if you are...i can pay attention to what you said..if not..eh...I find it amusing that atheists want to throw things like that at christians and think we care.

Huckabee said nothing in that video about states/marijuana etc...the reporter PUSHED him until he said no he wouldn't stop the raids. He said nothing about states rights. he spoke about issues he was most concerned about...the reporter obviously had a legalize pot agenda. huckabee said that wasn't a priority. the guy kept pushing him. You folks see what you want to see..and furthermore, you must have a legalize pot agenda yourself to see that as a top priority when our economy is falling down around us and we have komrade obama as president.

I am not trying to convince anyone to support huckabee..and I'm not sure I will, i am just having conversation and I don't mind bantering back and forth about it. If you are a libertarian, you should probably work within YOUR party to find the candidate you can believe in. tones

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

moon...are you a christian? if you are...i can pay attention to what you said..if not..eh...I find it amusing that atheists want to throw things like that at christians and think we care.How brazen of us to dare to hold you to the same standard of morality that you want to enforce on others against their will.

[powerofreason]

Saying that legalizing things like pot and prostitution are not a priority (but you'd be okay with it) is a major copout. You can tell the attorney general not to prosecute these "crimes" or you can do nothing because these things "aren't a priority."

Its a priority to the helpless guy rotting in jail because he got caught with marijuana one too many times.

[raiha]

Well GW, Ron Paul says it loud and clear. When fascism comes to America it will be in the form of a cross wrapped in a flag. He's a moderate Christian with an open heart open to all humans. (Well, besides the banksters maybe!:) )

[JeNNiF00F00]

I do not FEAr Christianity..i am a christian. I heard huckabee on Hannity on the radio and he sounded very libertarian. I would rather have someone who stands for 50% of the Ron Paul platform than someone like Newt or charlie crist who will not. Tones

Because he started stealing lines from Dr. Paul after the primary debates! Hes not a stupid man.

[moostraks]

moon...are you a christian? if you are...i can pay attention to what you said..if not..eh...I find it amusing that atheists want to throw things like that at christians and think we care.

Huckabee said nothing in that video about states/marijuana etc...the reporter PUSHED him until he said no he wouldn't stop the raids. He said nothing about states rights. he spoke about issues he was most concerned about...the reporter obviously had a legalize pot agenda. huckabee said that wasn't a priority. the guy kept pushing him. You folks see what you want to see..and furthermore, you must have a legalize pot agenda yourself to see that as a top priority when our economy is falling down around us and we have komrade obama as president.

I am not trying to convince anyone to support huckabee..and I'm not sure I will, i am just having conversation and I don't mind bantering back and forth about it. If you are a libertarian, you should probably work within YOUR party to find the candidate you can believe in. tones

I am a believer in a Creator, Jesus walked the earth and was infinitely wise Creator incarnate, and that the Bible is a handy book for dealing with life and the problems that arise because of our own mistakes or selfishness. However, considering that many people nowadays are atheists you might want to learn how to approach an argument with respect to a human being and not prejudice yourself based on their spiritual views. Judge not lest you be judge, ya know?

As for the marijuana issue, I think you are blurring posts as I never said anything about legalizing it. That said, I think it is a coward who neglects the medical uses for marijuana and that they are beholden to the drug lobbyists when they choose to uphold the insane drug laws which refuse its use. The people that are seeking it for medical use are terminally ill, and it relieves pain and stimulates their appetite. This isn't a morality issue.

Yet Huck said "Let me just be very blunt. I don't support the idea. I think there are better ways to treat medical illnesses than the use of a drug that has really caused so many more people to have their lives injured than it has to necessarily have their lives helped. There are so many different ways in which, whether it's pain or other ways, I think we can deal with medical issues."

Furthermore sponsers of liberty believe in the value of self-responsibilty and that the government is not our nanny and protector. What an adult does with their body is their own business and if they really were concerned with the negative effects of mood/conscience altering products they would go after alcohol consumption. However, you are free to become as loaded on booze as you wish in the privacy of your own home as long as you don't create a disturbance.

So delving into the issues a bit with Huck,he supported the 2006 Patriot Act, expanding domestic surveillance, opposed habeaus corpus for Gitmo hostages er, detainees. He also favored maintaining our empire status including the increased troops in Iraq, an unlimited timetable for withdraw,and opposed decreasing the number of nuclear weapons we own (how many times do we need to blow the world up?).

As far as taxes go, he talks a good game but they didn't call him tax hike Mike for no reason.

He was on the wrong end of every issue right out of the gate but was a quick understudy. Look back at posts around a year ago. We were constantly lamenting his coat tale riding he was doing on the good doctor's talking point. He had no sincerity and it would not influence us even when they pushed us on how we were following someone who they would see to it did not succeed.

As for telling me what party to reform, who are you? No wonder republicans are seen as control freaks look at how their party conducts itself. I don't bow to the alter of a party if the candidate carries the right message. If I am going to be active with party reform then I will dump my efforts on a coup in the Republican party since they are screaming for a reform. If you really were interested in changing the party you would welcome the help rather than looking down your nose at those of us libertarian leaning republicans. It is after all the basis of this forum to explore a libertarian leaning republican's views.

[JeNNiF00F00]

Look...this is ALSO the problem I have with libertarians. While I agree that medical marijuana should be legalized, i do NOT consider it a top priority. What the HELL is wrong with the rest of what huckabee said??? he is concerned about the Constitution and second amendment, he is concerned about the FAIR TAX and changing the tax code...he is concerned with getting more affordable health care without socialism, DAMN...you are going to HARP on POT? this is what irritates me with libertarians...pot is not a top priority. Some states are doing OK with it. California for instance. I do NOT consider SOCIAL issues like porn, prostitution, drugs and gambling to be TOP PRIORITIES. I find it RIDICULOUS. I said it before, if we can get a candidate that is going to work on 50% of the Ron Paul platform...YAY! tones

Huckabee is a fascist hack and is only concerned about himself.

For some people, "Pot" is their medicine and IS top priority. If you ever get sick enough, and have to worry about dealing with gun toting criminals who carry what you need having to drive into bad parts of town and risk your life so that you can feel some sense of relief from pain then it would be one of your priorities to legalize this plant.

The people in California are STILL being busted for Cannabis by the FEDS. Altho it is a state law, the FEDS still trump the states. People need their medicines and have to worry about the feds busting in their homes even if they are following state law. Its an issue that doesn't need to be swept under the rug any longer.

By legalizing cannabis, the issues you mention would be next to null. The govt could then tax it which would then replace many of the other taxes out there. The cops would also be able to worry about REAL criminals causing violence against citizens! Hell, by legalizing cannabis, I truely believe that we could actually FIX our countries debt if things were done correctly! So yeah, legalization of Cannabis, IS a major factor.

Thinking just bout yourself Id say is pretty selfish and is very unchristian. It's about thinking about the entire whole not just a couple of issues pertaining to yourself.

http://digg.com/politics/Feds_Too_Busy_Busting_Medical_Marijuana_Shops_To_C atch_Anthrax_Perps

http://digg.com/health/Raiding_California_Medical_Marijuana_Provider_Face s_100_Yrs

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5033

http://www.lacitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/raid_diaries/5913/

[georgiaboy]

I am a believer in a Creator, Jesus walked the earth and was infinitely wise Creator incarnate, and that the Bible is a handy book for dealing with life and the problems that arise because of our own mistakes or selfishness. However, considering that many people nowadays are atheists you might want to learn how to approach an argument with respect to a human being and not prejudice yourself based on their spiritual views. Judge not lest you be judge, ya know?

As for the marijuana issue, I think you are blurring posts as I never said anything about legalizing it. That said, I think it is a coward who neglects the medical uses for marijuana and that they are beholden to the drug lobbyists when they choose to uphold the insane drug laws which refuse its use. The people that are seeking it for medical use are terminally ill, and it relieves pain and stimulates their appetite. This isn't a morality issue.

Yet Huck said "Let me just be very blunt. I don't support the idea. I think there are better ways to treat medical illnesses than the use of a drug that has really caused so many more people to have their lives injured than it has to necessarily have their lives helped. There are so many different ways in which, whether it's pain or other ways, I think we can deal with medical issues."

Furthermore sponsers of liberty believe in the value of self-responsibilty and that the government is not our nanny and protector. What an adult does with their body is their own business and if they really were concerned with the negative effects of mood/conscience altering products they would go after alcohol consumption. However, you are free to become as loaded on booze as you wish in the privacy of your own home as long as you don't create a disturbance.

So delving into the issues a bit with Huck,he supported the 2006 Patriot Act, expanding domestic surveillance, opposed habeaus corpus for Gitmo hostages er, detainees. He also favored maintaining our empire status including the increased troops in Iraq, an unlimited timetable for withdraw,and opposed decreasing the number of nuclear weapons we own (how many times do we need to blow the world up?).

As far as taxes go, he talks a good game but they didn't call him tax hike Mike for no reason.

He was on the wrong end of every issue right out of the gate but was a quick understudy. Look back at posts around a year ago. We were constantly lamenting his coat tale riding he was doing on the good doctor's talking point. He had no sincerity and it would not influence us even when they pushed us on how we were following someone who they would see to it did not succeed.

As for telling me what party to reform, who are you? No wonder republicans are seen as control freaks look at how their party conducts itself. I don't bow to the alter of a party if the candidate carries the right message. If I am going to be active with party reform then I will dump my efforts on a coup in the Republican party since they are screaming for a reform. If you really were interested in changing the party you would welcome the help rather than looking down your nose at those of us libertarian leaning republicans. It is after all the basis of this forum to explore a libertarian leaning republican's views.

qft.

[tonesforjonesbones]

You are never going to get anywhere with your attitudes. I think you should all stay in the LP. These attitudes are going to get you thrown out of the GOP again. I consider it is better to accept 50% than be thrown out with nothing. This is not going to happen over night. It will be a long slow process...to change hearts and minds. There will have to be compromise in order to make any progress. The Founders had to compromise and so will we if we are going to get some of the things we want. It might be best to prioritize and work for the top 5 or so issues. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

I would approach domestic policy...foreign policy seems to be controlled by the elites, but we could work on domestic issues, like limited government, fiscal responsibility, tax issues..even if it is the fair tax as long as they amend the 16th amendment, a Return to the constitutuion, and making sure we have non activist justices on the bench...things like that which are common ground with the republican party platform. tones

[JohnJay]

. . .These attitudes are going to get you thrown out of the GOP again . . .

The party of exclusion - the GOP - does need to throw out as many people as it can, as quickly as it can.