Is Alcohol a good alternative car fuel?

[Primbs]

I heard this on the radio and went to this website?

http://www.alcoholcanbeagas.com/node/518

[Matt Collins]

No. My uncle is one of the worlds' top chemists (he holds the patent on Pampers and Tampax) and he explained to me that essentially burning alcohol leaves water in your engine; that will cause serious oxidation in short order.

[Primbs]

Although, they do run formula one cars and other race cars on pure alcohol or some variation there of. Usually in the past, the alcohol race fuels were very expensive.

I hear what you are saying about fuel problems.

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_0702_alcohol_engine_maintenance/index.html

[Expatriate]

I heard that guy on the "Coast to Coast AM" show recently. He did make it sound very attractive, since you can supposedly produce it yourself pretty easily using a still and a cattail marsh or cornfield.

But I'm not sure if he's telling the truth about how well it works as a substitute for gas. He claims he's been persecuted and says there are a bunch of myths being spread by the oil companies to scare people away from switching to ethanol. Of course, he is also trying to make money selling ethanol conversion kits and information, so he's probably glossing things over and making it sound like a wonder-fuel.


No. My uncle is one of the worlds' top chemists (he holds the patent on Pampers and Tampax) and he explained to me that essentially burning alcohol leaves water in your engine; that will cause serious oxidation in short order.

That issue with the pure stuff pulling water out of the air sounds pretty bad, but this guy doesn't even mention it from what I can see, which might damage his credibility since he's advocating E100. He actually claims E100 will extend the life of your engine by reducing carbon in the oil. However, I noticed this in the Wikipedia flex-fuel article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle):

Brazilian flex fuel vehicles are optimized to run on any mix of E20-E25 gasoline and up to 100% hydrous ethanol fuel (E100).
I wonder how the Brazilian vehicles avoid oxidation with water in the engine? Also, some fighter aircraft in WWII used water-injection to cool their engines for bursts of power, so there must be a way around oxidation problems.

I doubt the oil companies want to lose their grip on the fuel market. People can't produce their own oil or gasoline, but they can make ethanol easily.

I guess you might have to do your own research. If you know someone using E85 in a flex-fuel vehicle you could quiz them on the benefits. I don't really know enough to tell you anything definite.

[Matt Collins]

Although, they do run formula one cars and other race cars on pure alcohol or some variation there of. Usually in the past, the alcohol race fuels were very expensive.Yes, and those engines get town down and rebuilt after every use. Not exactly the kind of maintenance one would expect on a passenger vehicle.

[Truth Warrior]

Sure it is, just replace all of the rubber and plastic in would contact first. ;) BTW, some other minor tweaks may also be required. :)

[acptulsa]

Water is a product of burning gasoline as well. Not a hell of a lot of it remains in the cylinder--that's what the exhaust system is for. Engines are aluminum alloy these days. The only ferrous metal the fuel contacts composes the cylinder liners, as a general rule, and if you run the car every day or every other day it has no time to build up. If you want to worry about bare steel, get yourself upset over your brake discs. They don't even need a rainstorm to rust. Unless you live in the Mojave, they pretty much rest up every single night. As for your engine, if it doesn't have a coat of oil on the cylinder walls, you have bigger problems than rust. And if you have a coat of oil, well, ask your grandmother about her cast iron skillet. Rust is oxidation, and oil doesn't pass air.

Besides, unless you're running in the desert or had a dryer of come kind on your intake system, it doesn't matter if what you burn produces water as a by-product or not--there will be a little steam left over from the humidity in the air. Even if you have a cast iron engine, it isn't enough to cause a problem unless the car sits a very long time.

Alchohol has a lot of octane, not a lot of energy. You can expect your power and mileage to drop. It can burn without any flames showing, and is dangerous that way. When they first started using it in racing some guys got burned badly because the pit crew members with the fire extinguishers couldn't tell they were on fire. It will clean your engine--perhaps a little too well, if that's possible. It will also eat your rubber hoses in the fuel system (some plastic parts, too) if your car isn't new enough to have the new rubber and plastic compounds that are designed to stand up to it. You do and don't have additional headaches if your car is prone to picking up condensation in the tank. Water and alchohol mix, so you will run but will have less power.

But mainly the stuff burns hot--hotter than gasoline iirc, which can cause problems, depending on how your engine's engineered.

Water--hmpf. Hell, when a steam locomotive is fresh in from a run, its cylinders are some of the dryest things on earth--and they've been getting moved by water vapor! But when metal is seven hundred degrees, there's just no liquid water anywhere near it and what vapor is nearby is incredibly thin and dispersed...

[Acala]

Ethanol is a fine fuel for cars. Water in the combustion chamber is not a problem. The original Model T was built to run on ethanol or gasoline.

However, the economics of ethanol on a large scale are really questionable. And the process of homebrewing it is NOT simple. Fuel alcohol must be substantially more pure than moonshine and so the still must be more sophisticated. Essentially you need a large-scale fractional distillation system. And it needs a source of heat - first to boil the wort before you pitch the yeast and then to heat the still. It also uses a lot of water. If you have access to some fermentable agricultural waste stream, and you have access to plenty of wood to use to heat your process, and you have plenty of water to use, then it probably makes sense. Otherwise, I don't think so.

I started looking at it pretty closely and bought that guy's book. But I am now much more interested in wood gas as fuel for vehicles. It was used extensively in Europe during WWII to power vehicles. Much simpler to produce than ethanol and more versatile too. The downside is that you can't drink it. In fact wood gas is highly poisonous - about 30% carbon monoxide.

[V3n]

It makes sense to me. I find I use a lot less gas when I stay home to drink.

[ihsv]

It makes sense to me. I find I use a lot less gas when I stay home to drink.

:D

[orafi]

No. My uncle is one of the worlds' top chemists (he holds the patent on Pampers and Tampax) and he explained to me that essentially burning alcohol leaves water in your engine; that will cause serious oxidation in short order.

Pfft, not if your engine is made out of pure Au, baby.