I've become disillusioned [Archive] - Ron Paul Forums / Liberty Forest

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Sematary

11-16-2008, 01:26 AM

Kludge

11-16-2008, 01:37 AM

Fuck the lot of 'em. Focus on education and local politics. You can do these things yourself or in small groups. The Advocates (http://www.theadvocates.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?) have some nice education materials if you look at the left side-bar and click Libertarian Newstand or Operation Politically Homeless.

If the movement wants to get together, it had best be to support congressional liberty candidates (NOT radical libertarians, either! [BJ Lawson can be an exception ;)]). C4L is quickly becoming a greater disappointment than the third party runs this year and my distrust of them is near the point of no hope. I can only hope that grassroots leadership can take over for 2010. I have some apprehension regarding BTM, but they did some very cool things this year and helped a lot. I'm very interested in seeing something similar to the Liberty Straw Poll being redone. Hopefully it will receive more financial support the next time through. The last was truly spectacular and made my month -- only memorable Constitution Day I've ever had :D. I also hope that in 2012, we don't squander resources on a central presidential candidate, and instead focus on congressional candidates. BJ's fundraising total was shameful for how great a candidate he was, the support given by Ron Paul and the volunteer efforts from grassroots.

Cunningham

11-16-2008, 02:07 AM

I don't understand why people think waiting until 2010 or 2012 is the only option. I don't understand why CFL or another organization wouldn't be trying to raise money for issue ads in newspapers and radio and maybe tv. One to raise awareness, and also to advertise the organization to generate new supporters and new revenue. They should be hammering this bailout stuff. Polls show the people hate it.

People seem less motivated if there isn't a pending election but if this thing wants to become a real movement for actual change it can't just wait until election season. I think working locally is great but if CFL or some other organization can't step up and put a national face or brand on the movement I fear it's going to have little impact. Lots of people have heard of the moveon.org group but we need a freedom organization that at least tries to generate the same level of attention. They don't have to wait for an election to run a full page add in USA Today or on radio. Ron Paul is on T.V. every week now. When he's being asked about this and that and what he thinks, it would be nice if he could say....."oh and by the way this is what my organization, the CFL, is doing about it. If you agree get behind us, go to our site, help out." He can't really say, " Hey this is the CFL, and we've been blogging about these problems for weeks." The precinct leader thing is great to educate new operatives but the CFL needs to be doing outreach to generate more interest on a larger scale. Put up another fund raising ticker for ads or something.

Conza88

11-16-2008, 03:12 AM

Victory for Freedom is Inevitable! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIOX9IQhL3M)

LittleLightShining

11-16-2008, 06:18 AM

We have become a fractured cause, with no direction, no leader. The CFL was supposed to be that leader but I don't see it. They wanted a top down, no questions asked type organization and that's simply not the way WE work. We are individuals. We don't take orders well. WE dictate how WE want the revolution to work. So the CFL is a failure even before it really begins. And now, well now, we have no direction. We have no cause and we have no future unless we figure out how to fix it.

I hear you. For what it's worth we're taking a different tack with the C4L in Vermont. Later today we are having our first offline meeting. We invited everyone signed up on the website, our statewide meetup group and a liberty-oriented yahoo group. We also invited people by word of mouth with the expectation that this would be an ad hoc committee meeting to plan our first annual convention. We're expecting around 25 people today.

The convention will be held within the next couple of months. Today's meeting is to hammer out logistics and organize committees. We will then advertise and use the convention as a springboard for C4L, whose Mission Statement follows:

To promote and defend the great American principles of individual liberty, constitutional government, sound money, free markets, and a noninterventionist foreign policy, by means of educational and political activity.

We cannot wait for the organization itself to decide who's ready to lead in Vermont. So we're doing it ourselves. This is from my co-organizer (we're the only 2 PL's in the state right now) in response to the question "purpose of C4L?":

vtgadfly
Posted 11/13/08 While I agree that the C4L should be about action and education, I would also add that it is about community and bottom up political activity.

We should not be waiting for our "leaders" to organize and direct us. We should be coming together through this website and other places at the local, county, and state level on our own initiative. Organizing events, campaigns, and activities which will promote our message, educate the public, and identify future candidates who share our vision for this republic.

We are more than a PAC, a advocacy group, or political party. We are a movement dedicate to returning this nation and its government to a love for liberty, a respect for the rule of law, and a constitutional form of government.

We in Vermont are not waiting for HQ to organize us or to tell us what needs to be done. At local levels and state wide we are moving to organize and to engage our community.

This is what we're about.

People seem less motivated if there isn't a pending election but if this thing wants to become a real movement for actual change it can't just wait until election season. I think working locally is great but if CFL or some other organization can't step up and put a national face or brand on the movement I fear it's going to have little impact. Lots of people have heard of the moveon.org group but we need a freedom organization that at least tries to generate the same level of attention. They don't have to wait for an election to run a full page add in USA Today or on radio. Ron Paul is on T.V. every week now. When he's being asked about this and that and what he thinks, it would be nice if he could say....."oh and by the way this is what my organization, the CFL, is doing about it. If you agree get behind us, go to our site, help out." He can't really say, " Hey this is the CFL, and we've been blogging about these problems for weeks." The precinct leader thing is great to educate new operatives but the CFL needs to be doing outreach to generate more interest on a larger scale. Put up another fund raising ticker for ads or something.
I agree with you but again, I think we need to take a different tack when it comes to fund raising. Here's my post(#26) from the C4L moneybomb thread:
(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=168114)

Ok, maybe I'm ignorant so please correct me where need be. I'm not that familiar with the moneybomb phenomenon but I did take part in a few earlier this year that were successful in that they raised money but they weren't anything like the million$ in a day raised last year.

After the campaign got all that money for the bombs what did they do with it? Did they use it efficiently? I would say no. That's my opinion.

My concern with this C4L moneybomb is that I believe the C4L has got to be a bottom up organization using the framework that C4L has set up for us. So what's the mission? Why are we in C4L? To educate people and to help get liberty candidates elected. Locally. So how is raising money and giving it to the C4L going to help us to that end? So they can print materials and sell them to us?

We're organizing ourselves in VT. We're having a meeting tomorrow to start planning a convention that will hopefully put us on the political map here. I've filled out the PL tools, so has my co-organizer, so now what? We wait for C4L to decide who's good enough to be the state interim chair? No. That's not what we're doing because to wait for them would be to wait forever.

So back to the moneybomb. How does the C4L (here and elsewhere-- the boots on the ground folks) make a mark locally? Well, it's going to take money and quite frankly if the campaign for president was any indication, Vermont won't see one single penny of that money. We live here, we know the people and the economic and political climate. We understand each other and what we're trying to achieve. If we don't start raising money for candidates now-- even before we find them-- we're going to lose. Again.

I support the C4L but not on this. Not when we need to invest here at home. I suggest you folks think about what you're going to be doing for local money, too. We have 2 years to build our Liberty(not war) Chests and get good people elected.

Which pretty much sums up my feelings on this issue.

But Sematary, you're right, we need to not only be looking towards 2010 and 2012 but we need to be working on the issues themselves as they present themselves to us. I'm hoping that after the convention we'll be a more unified group, each contributing what time and talents are available to us. I would love to see a "Legislative Committee" which functions as a watchdog to what's going on in the statehouse (and Congress) and keeping us informed so we can swiftly act on questionable policy. I would love to see everyone become involved in their local political party of choice. I would love to see some Liberty-Democrats spring out of this. There are a ton of possibilities for what this can become.

I grew up in CT and I think I would be disillusioned if I lived there, too. Somehow I can't imagine being able to accomplish much there, but I guess it depends on what part of the state you're in. Don't give up the fight. There must still be a handful of people who are willing to work on Real ID. I'd love to talk to you about more ideas but this post is already way too long...

Spirit of '76

11-16-2008, 06:43 AM

Here's an email I just got from one of the other C4L county coordinators here in WV. Sounds like a plan to me. Maybe this is something those of you elsewhere can adapt to the needs of your states or localities.

Gentlemen,
Here is my suggestion for where we need to try to be before summer of this upcoming year. Obviously increasing the number of active members of WV C4L, that's a given. On top of that, we need to increase the number of PL's in a geographically diverse manner so we can make significant strides to getting our State Charter. That's the business, logistical stuff.

I think it would be good for the us to come up with a WV C4L Platform, State Plan, and Grassroots Handbook. This may sound like bureaucratic nonsense, but I think having these three documents will give us, and other WV'ians, a good place to start.

The Platform can be a simple document. Here is what we believe, here is what we want done: the Big Ideas.

The State Plan can be a set of goals and benchmarks to give activists in WV an idea of how to get started, what to do, and where to go. This needs to have concrete goals and benchmarks we can shoot to achieve.

On top of that we need a Grassroots Handbook, a sort of, "How to Bring Liberty to Your County" kind of thing. There are some really motivated people who want to hit the streets. We can go over things like leafleting, lit drops, banner hangs, signs, door-to-door canvassing, making wheat paste for fliers, button and t-shirt marking, etc. I have some good resources for this sort of thing that we can use. All of these can be made available as PDF's for download.

So to re-cap. If you all approve, I propose the creation of a WV C4L Platform, State Plan, and Grassroots Handbook to begin no later than January 1 of 2009, and be completed no later than July of 2009, earlier is preferable.

Please remember to reply to all. What say you?

In Liberty,
Kevin Patrick

Truth Warrior

11-16-2008, 06:49 AM

Here's an idea of something constructive to DO, MYOB and Laissez Faire. ;)

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Roxi

11-16-2008, 08:43 AM

semetary we are in the exact same boat :)

i totally hear you, don't give up, anyone still focused on obama's ineligibility is either a shill, or undedicated to moving liberty forward, ignore those people and get to the ones willing to help move liberty forward!

tonesforjonesbones

11-16-2008, 08:51 AM

Yes...use the principles of c4l but keep your money local...no more sending hundreds of thousands to the top of the chain ...you don't know where it goes. Besides, you will need your money to spread the message locally and get local liberty candidates elected...this has to be a bottom UP movement..tones

tonesforjonesbones

11-16-2008, 08:55 AM

I always say unpopular things...but I have to warn against all these internet marketing groups popping up like End the Fed. i joined and now I have had no less than 10 emails..EVERY DAY asking me to purchase stuff of their website, t shirts, self inking stamps, etc etc etc...smh. I'm getting ready to unsubscribe. Many have seen the generocity of the Ron Paulers and are trying to cash in on it. I became agitated with the Granny Warriors first, and now, I am aggrivated with any of them. They build big email databases for MARKETING..it is internet marketing. Keep Your dough LOCAL...and beware of internet marketers that claim to be working for a cause..as you can see...c4l has gone exactly NOWHERE. Tones

Truth Warrior

11-16-2008, 08:58 AM

mczerone

11-16-2008, 09:05 AM

I hope we can find our way again but I guarantee you, if Jesse Ventura is the very BEST that this "revolution" can support - we're screwed.

I think the other posters in the thread got the point said very eloquently and meaningfully, but to sum up: we have to be our own leaders. Sitting around waiting for Ron Paul, Jesse Ventura, or even for some random blogger to start a money-bomb isn't how we make the movement grow. Since the election is over there are probably less than 10k people, worldwide, that still care enough about Liberty. When the crowd is that small, every one of us need to be a leader to expand the number of 'followers' - those that will pledge to donate when the next election cycle rolls around.

Instead of asking "What's next", ask "what can I do to help". Don't look at the people who aren't helping and say "all hope is lost," but instead look to the few that are still working and either (1) help them in their efforts or (2) emulate them to start your own projects.

Nobody ever got anywhere by surrendering before acting.

YOU are the BEST the Revolution can support!

ShowMeLiberty

11-16-2008, 09:21 AM

I'm a little disillusioned myself and ended up on email marketing lists when I thought I had signed up to help with a real cause. So I'm going to hang back on the sidelines of things like C4L and MeetUps for a while. I want to stay "in the loop" but that's about it for now.

I think, as a movement, we're maybe just in a different phase. My goals have shifted to educating myself further and sharing what I learn with others.

Five Lazy Ways You Can Advance Liberty: http://www.theadvocates.org/library/five-lazy-ways.html

Drop cards here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=168981
and here: http://www.theadvocates.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LS&Category_Code=WOR

I also recommend this excellent article from LewRockwell.com : Toxic Anger 2 (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/hamilton8.html)

Excerpt:

1. Educate, educate, educate. First educate yourself. Learn about the Austrian School of Economics and why printing trillions of dollars is hurting every single American, even those that don’t pay taxes. It is called the Inflation tax and comes when the Federal Reserve prints more and more dollars and weakens the value of each. This makes prices go up and we pay additional taxes in every penny we spend. If printing money could solve all our problems, then why not just print up ten million dollars for every household in America? Wouldn’t that jumpstart the economy? Actually, all that would do is cause the dollar to crash and send us into hyper-inflation. If that is bad, then aren’t these bailouts going to be bad one day too? We got into this mess by printing too much money. How is more poison going to help the poisoned?

2. Hand out as many Red Pills as you can. In other words, open people’s eyes about government theft. For me, the “aha” moment came when I learned (and I admit I did not know) that the government does not have any money. It does not make anything. It does not produce any money. All the money it gets it takes from you and me. Therefore, anytime they talk about how “we” need to give $700 billion dollars to anyone that is money that is taken from you and me in the form of higher direct taxes, higher taxes through inflation, or additional debt that must be paid back at some point by us.

3. Use better language. The government does not want you to put the focus on them and have taught us some bad habits. Instead of saying “we” when talking about the actions taken by the U.S. Government, say, “the U.S. Government.” Such as: instead of “we” are fighting a war with “Iraq” change it to the U.S. Government is fighting a war with the government of Iraq. Only in America do we say “we” when speaking of the government.

4. In the same vein, be clearer about current economics. Instead of saying that Obama will save the big three automakers as if he is a generous leprechaun with an unlimited pot of gold, make it clear where the money is coming from and who is taking it. Such as, I heard today that President elect Obama is considering stealing $50 billion dollars from the American public to give to certain auto companies. (I say stealing, because no one asked me my opinion on the matter and if they had I would have said no. If I do not have the right to say no, I call that stealing.) Try this little test with this article here and see how it sounds when you replace all the language. For example it talks about stimulus checks being given to Americans. Well, these did not come out of this air. Replace that phrase with “stimulus checks paid for with money stolen from the American people.” They don’t sound so stimulating any more.

5. Stop watching mainstream news. Most of it is propaganda or silly stories you can do without. I tried this and two months later watched a national newscast. I was shocked at all the direct lies and manipulations that were substituted as “news.” For example, before the $700 billion dollar bailout we were told the sky would fall and credit would stop if we did not hand over our money to these banks. Instead, they hoarded it, used it to purchase struggling banks in the biggest fire sale of the century and they barely increased the amount of credit extended to regular folk. (Don’t get me wrong, I am not suggesting that they should have to give credit to the un-creditworthy – that landed us in this mess in the first place.) But the world did not end. Nothing much has changed except that these banks that were struggling a little are now doing quite well. (Well, goodie for them. I still can barely afford to buy groceries).

6. To replace the loss of the mainstream news, get your information from sources such as Mises.org, LewRockwell.com, FFF.org, and FEE.org. These are non-statist websites that are run by people who have already swallowed the Red Pill. They know that the government is nothing but force, it is run by thugs and thieves, it is not our friend, and its sole purpose is to steal as much money from each of us as it can get away with. These sites tell it like it is without a statist slant. (A statist thinks the State – the government – is better at spending your money than you are and we cannot be trusted to make our own decisions. A non-statist thinks just the opposite: that we are adults, we know better than some bureaucrat how best to spend our limited resources and that our private lives are our business.)

7. Understand that the government is not trying to make sure everyone gets a home, but instead, they are doing their best to make sure everyone gets a thirty-year mortgage. That sounds a lot less benevolent and a little more like crony capitalism does it not? The government is not the nanny state, it is the warden state. It is not there to gently teach you and guide you; it rules you with a heavy hand and stick. Which reminds me – stop calling these politicians our “leaders.” They are not leading us anywhere. They are our rulers. They tell us what to do and in most cases we have very little we can do about it. Thoughts become much clearer when you use the proper language.

8. Anytime you hear someone say that the free market caused this mess set them straight. Do not let that lie spread any further. The financial crisis was caused by government intervention in the markets. Fannie and Freddie were both government-created programs designed to put a mortgage in every pot. The Federal Reserve continually lowered interest rates (as they are doing right now) until money was so cheap it didn’t make sense not to borrow more than you could afford. In 1977, the Community Reinvestment Act was designed to provide “affordable” mortgages to those with poor credit. In 1995, President Clinton made changes to the CRA that loosened credit standards even further and forced banks to make risky loans or face penalties. These actions are as far from a free market as you can get. This is corporatism and social engineering at its worst.

9. Finally, do all you can to tell as many people what you have learned. Tell everyone you know. Understand that it is not the foreclosed homeowners who are stealing from you, it is the government. (Although I have a thing or two to say to the people who stood outside the FDIC and protested about their mortgages being too high and demanded that the FDIC take money from you and me so they could have lower monthly payments. Apparently, they now think the deal the originally signed could have been better. AIG also thinks its bailout deal could have been better and now the old president of the company is asking for better terms. Gee, could it be because he is a major shareholder?) These folks could not get a dime from us legally if the government wasn’t involved. The automakers do not have a right to one penny from you unless the government decides to steal it from you. Wall Street banks would fail or not based on their own business decisions without the government stealing from us to prop them up. No matter how much these looters beg, it is government action that actually takes money from you.

So, keep it simple. Keep it clear. The problem is government power and the need to get rid of it. It will not matter who is in charge if the government doesn’t have much power. Moreover, we have a lack of understanding by most Americans that the government has no pot of gold to hand out. Teach that all wealth transfer is theft. Not too many people are comfortable being thieves. If you teach them that each government program they are seeking is grand theft, they may think differently. Explain that people have a right to their labor and they should not be made slaves to support leviathan. Tell them that if we eliminated all the government programs we could get rid of the Income Tax and spend our money the way we want to.

Learn about how liberal programs such as minimum wage laws and the Americans with Disabilities Act have actually hurt the people they are designed to help. Learn how “free” government education is not free at all (many homeowners pay for it through property taxes) and they are teaching our children how to be good little citizens that do not question government action. Not much could be more dangerous to liberty.

Send articles to your friends. But most important of all, keep learning. It is easier to get clear information these days, but you have to look for it. Remember though, only the educated can teach and this country needs to learn a whole lot of lessons. Perhaps you might want to consider picking up copies of Murray Rothbard’s What has Government Done to Our Money and Ron Paul’s The Revolution: A Manifesto. My husband and I are giving a copy of each to everyone on our Christmas list. (Both of these can be found from the links on the front page of LewRockwell.com.)

Finally, for a brilliant inspiring speech by Ron Paul about what each of us can do to turn this country around, listen to this.

Bryan

11-16-2008, 09:37 AM

I'm very interested in seeing something similar to the Liberty Straw Poll being redone. Hopefully it will receive more financial support the next time through. The last was truly spectacular and made my month -- only memorable Constitution Day I've ever had :D.
I'd want to see something too- all types of things can be done to raise awareness and ID top of ideas, projects, 2010 candidates and 2012 candidates.

Here's an email I just got from one of the other C4L county coordinators here in WV. Sounds like a plan to me. Maybe this is something those of you elsewhere can adapt to the needs of your states or localities.

Gentlemen,
Here is my suggestion for where we need to try to be before summer of this upcoming year. Obviously increasing the number of active members of WV C4L, that's a given. On top of that, we need to increase the number of PL's in a geographically diverse manner so we can make significant strides to getting our State Charter. That's the business, logistical stuff.

I think it would be good for the us to come up with a WV C4L Platform, State Plan, and Grassroots Handbook. This may sound like bureaucratic nonsense, but I think having these three documents will give us, and other WV'ians, a good place to start.

The Platform can be a simple document. Here is what we believe, here is what we want done: the Big Ideas.

The State Plan can be a set of goals and benchmarks to give activists in WV an idea of how to get started, what to do, and where to go. This needs to have concrete goals and benchmarks we can shoot to achieve.

On top of that we need a Grassroots Handbook, a sort of, "How to Bring Liberty to Your County" kind of thing. There are some really motivated people who want to hit the streets. We can go over things like leafleting, lit drops, banner hangs, signs, door-to-door canvassing, making wheat paste for fliers, button and t-shirt marking, etc. I have some good resources for this sort of thing that we can use. All of these can be made available as PDF's for download.

So to re-cap. If you all approve, I propose the creation of a WV C4L Platform, State Plan, and Grassroots Handbook to begin no later than January 1 of 2009, and be completed no later than July of 2009, earlier is preferable.

Please remember to reply to all. What say you?

In Liberty,
Kevin Patrick
I really like this. I've been pushing for Texas to have a combo platform / state plan, but the handbook is really the collection of ideas / knowledge base for the individual. I'd also suggest it could be made into a video-- some people much prefer it. I also suggest that onces a state plan is made that each district create a district plan that supports the state plan. In this way each district goes as they choose to support the state plan (that should be pretty simple in terms of state goals) to which representation from each district thought was solid.

My $0.02.

kathy88

11-16-2008, 10:28 AM

lynnf

11-16-2008, 12:56 PM

Texas is starting:

What: Campaign For Liberty Senate Districts Convention

When: January REDACTED

Where: (A location has not been chosen yet.)

Meetup Description: DETAILS TO FOLLOW!

Please mark you calendars and RSVP for a full day in REDACTED to help formulate a Campaign for Liberty organization.

Delegates from Senate Districts around the State will have regional conventions in January to select delegates to a State Convention in REDACTED in February, and delegates will decide what C4L will look like and whether it should affiliate with a nationally organized group. Delegates could even decide on a group name NOT called "Campaign for Liberty".

so, things are happening, if nothing seems to be happening in your state, maybe either they haven't announced plans yet, or it's waiting for YOU to get it started!

(on the redactions -- if they can redact information on the stupid "bailout", why can't we?)

to paraphrase Robert E. Lee: you all just try to keep up with the Texans!
lynn

IPSecure

11-16-2008, 01:09 PM

Nobody was talking about fax bombing Congress about their latest stupid episodes to try and spend other people's money and destroy the currency.

Nobody is talking about fax bombing Congress about "Ending The Fed".

RonPaulVolunteer

11-16-2008, 01:38 PM

I am reviving our local meetup after taking over the leadership 2 weeks ago, and it's working. I am going to start thread in a few weeks with tips to re-energize the people that I have found to work.

heavenlyboy34

11-16-2008, 01:43 PM

You have become too reliant on centralized power/authority. This is a grassroots movement. We have no leader (but we consider RP our best advisor). Go out and contribute instead of whining about not being constantly told what to do.

This "revolution" held such promise a year ago. We had just finished putting on the biggest rally so far for Ron Paul and the money was rolling in. We had money bombs and blimps and so much more and we were FOCUSED on freedom. So what happened? I had to quit the statewide meetup that I began over a year ago because I couldn't take the 20 inane emails a day about Obama's citizenship. Nothing was focused. Nothing was being directed towards REGAINING OUR FREEDOMS and preventing future ones from being lost. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY was (or is) interested in stopping REAL ID. It got lost in the shuffle. Nobody was talking about fax bombing Congress about their latest stupid episodes to try and spend other people's money and destroy the currency. It was all inane. unfocused and pointless. I see much of the same every where I look.

We have become a fractured cause, with no direction, no leader. The CFL was supposed to be that leader but I don't see it. They wanted a top down, no questions asked type organization and that's simply not the way WE work. We are individuals. We don't take orders well. WE dictate how WE want the revolution to work. So the CFL is a failure even before it really begins. And now, well now, we have no direction. We have no cause and we have no future unless we figure out how to fix it.

The elections were a HUGE disappointment. Only 1% for third party candidates? REALLY? ARE you F'n kidding me? Where the hell were all the Ron Paul supporters putting forth their votes for a third party candidate. I voted for Chuck Baldwin, the only alternative I had aside from freakin Ralph Nader.

Is anyone getting the impression that I'm really disappointed in what has happened in the last year?

I hope we can find our way again but I guarantee you, if Jesse Ventura is the very BEST that this "revolution" can support - we're screwed.

tonesforjonesbones

11-16-2008, 04:37 PM

Well i DID..try to generate some interest. lol. The guy who is supposed to be in charge of c4L here emailed me and asked if i wanted a role locally...i said sure. We thought of having a reunion of the RP meet up group in november...I sent the email 3 times...nope. One person said they would like to meet and I haven't even heard from the organizer again. So...I joined the other local patriot group which seems to be gaining people quickly. They are getting the word out. I'm still active, but the local c4l is graveyard dead. tones

Zera

11-16-2008, 04:49 PM

Kludge

11-16-2008, 04:54 PM

heavenlyboy34

11-16-2008, 04:58 PM

NO NO NO!

This is all IRRELEVANT! We MUST make Obama's case of NOT BEING A U.S. BORN CITIZEN known WORLD WIDE! Nothing else matters right now IT MUST BE KNOWN! It will be hard because ALL the media is SO LIBERAL and every judge is a LIBERAL so any case is thrown out and no media reports it other than REAL MEDIA like DRUDGE REPORT.

I suspect they know about it in other countries (they have the webbernet too)-they just don't care.

lynnf

11-16-2008, 06:45 PM

NO NO NO!

This is all IRRELEVANT! We MUST make Obama's case of NOT BEING A U.S. BORN CITIZEN known WORLD WIDE! Nothing else matters right now IT MUST BE KNOWN! It will be hard because ALL the media is SO LIBERAL and every judge is a LIBERAL so any case is thrown out and no media reports it other than REAL MEDIA like DRUDGE REPORT.

thank you for finally coming around to our point of view -- there's a post somewhere on this forum that contains all the emails of press contacts -- why don't you start emailing them tonight? (label me -- waiting for Dec 1, when Obama and DNC have to respond to Justice Souter)

lynn

mport1

11-16-2008, 07:17 PM

I agree with the OP. Everybody should sign up for the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.com) if we actually want to have some success.

ItsTime

11-16-2008, 07:23 PM

I agree with the OP. Everybody should sign up for the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.com) if we actually want to have some success.

Are you a Freestater? New Hampshire has become as liberal as Vermont. I am said to say it is almost a lost cause. Unless we can turn everything around in 2 years.

but back on point of OP. Why wait for someone to take the lead. Why dont you take the lead locally?

Anti Federalist

11-17-2008, 06:52 AM

This "revolution" held such promise a year ago. We had just finished putting on the biggest rally so far for Ron Paul and the money was rolling in. We had money bombs and blimps and so much more and we were FOCUSED on freedom. So what happened? I had to quit the statewide meetup that I began over a year ago because I couldn't take the 20 inane emails a day about Obama's citizenship. Nothing was focused. Nothing was being directed towards REGAINING OUR FREEDOMS and preventing future ones from being lost. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY was (or is) interested in stopping REAL ID. It got lost in the shuffle. Nobody was talking about fax bombing Congress about their latest stupid episodes to try and spend other people's money and destroy the currency. It was all inane. unfocused and pointless. I see much of the same every where I look.

We have become a fractured cause, with no direction, no leader. The CFL was supposed to be that leader but I don't see it. They wanted a top down, no questions asked type organization and that's simply not the way WE work. We are individuals. We don't take orders well. WE dictate how WE want the revolution to work. So the CFL is a failure even before it really begins. And now, well now, we have no direction. We have no cause and we have no future unless we figure out how to fix it.

The elections were a HUGE disappointment. Only 1% for third party candidates? REALLY? ARE you F'n kidding me? Where the hell were all the Ron Paul supporters putting forth their votes for a third party candidate. I voted for Chuck Baldwin, the only alternative I had aside from freakin Ralph Nader.

Is anyone getting the impression that I'm really disappointed in what has happened in the last year?

I hope we can find our way again but I guarantee you, if Jesse Ventura is the very BEST that this "revolution" can support - we're screwed.

Meh' welcome to my world.

Ron Paul served as a lightening rod, a catalyst for people to put aside the differences that divide the "freedom" movement, and for one brief shining moment, come together for a common cause.

Well, that campaign is now over and it's back to the trenches, slogging away one mind at a time, a slow, unrewarding and tiresome process at best. I know, I've been at it for more than twenty years.

While you're at it, face a glaring truth, in spite of what what may have been said, or what we might think, freedom is not popular, most people, when they bother to think of the subject at all, crave not freedom, but a just master.

Fighting for freedom, for what is right and just, throughout history, has been an unrewarding and laborious task, littered with the bones of martyrs and patriots, rife with betrayals and setbacks. It very seldom has anything to do with voting, political action campaigns and fundraising.

In the end it comes down to just you, alone, unsung and unheralded, standing up for freedom in the face of disaster and death, doing the right thing when everyone around you is calling you a nut and a kook and a "terrorist".

That is the measure of a real "revolutionary".

Truth Warrior

11-17-2008, 07:10 AM

When people say 'let's do something about it,' they mean 'let's get hold of the political machinery so that we can do something to somebody else.' And that somebody is invariably you.
Frank Chodorov

Spirit of '76

11-17-2008, 07:17 AM

I really like this. I've been pushing for Texas to have a combo platform / state plan, but the handbook is really the collection of ideas / knowledge base for the individual. I'd also suggest it could be made into a video-- some people much prefer it. I also suggest that onces a state plan is made that each district create a district plan that supports the state plan. In this way each district goes as they choose to support the state plan (that should be pretty simple in terms of state goals) to which representation from each district thought was solid.

My $0.02.

Good ideas. I'll pass 'em along. :)