Palin / Africa / Fraud

[angelatc]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/arts/television/13hoax.html?_r=4&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Remember the rumored Iraqi casino? We fell for that one too. Same guys, literally making up stories to see if the MSM will pick up on them. (Yes, they will.)

So now those of us paying attention will be forced to spend our lives rolling our eyes when people make a Palin / Africa joke.

Fox is still standing by their story. Fox, give Dan Rather a call and see how that works out.

[Conservative Christian]

Please just tell us what the article says. I have no intention of signing up with the NYT, in order to read it. Thank you! :)

[Golding]

It was among the juicier post-election recriminations: Fox News Channel quoted an unnamed McCain campaign figure as saying that Sarah Palin did not know that Africa was a continent.

Who would say such a thing? On Monday the answer popped up on a blog and popped out of the mouth of David Shuster, an MSNBC anchor. “Turns out it was Martin Eisenstadt, a McCain policy adviser, who has come forward today to identify himself as the source of the leaks,” Mr. Shuster said.

Trouble is, Martin Eisenstadt doesn’t exist. His blog does, but it’s a put-on. The think tank where he is a senior fellow — the Harding Institute for Freedom and Democracy — is just a Web site. The TV clips of him on YouTube are fakes.

And the claim of credit for the Africa anecdote is just the latest ruse by Eisenstadt, who turns out to be a very elaborate hoax that has been going on for months. MSNBC, which quickly corrected the mistake, has plenty of company in being taken in by an Eisenstadt hoax, including The New Republic and The Los
Angeles Times.

Now a pair of obscure filmmakers say they created Martin Eisenstadt to help them pitch a TV show based on the character. But under the circumstances, why should anyone believe a word they say?

“That’s a really good question,” one of the two, Eitan Gorlin, said with a laugh.

(For what it’s worth, another reporter for The New York Times is an acquaintance of Mr. Gorlin and vouches for his identity, and Mr. Gorlin is indeed “Mr. Eisenstadt” in those videos. He and his partner in deception, Dan Mirvish, have entries on the Internet Movie Database, imdb.com. But still. ...)

They say the blame lies not with them but with shoddiness in the traditional news media and especially the blogosphere.

“With the 24-hour news cycle they rush into anything they can find,” said Mr. Mirvish, 40.

Mr. Gorlin, 39, argued that Eisenstadt was no more of a joke than half the bloggers or political commentators on the Internet or television.

An MSNBC spokesman, Jeremy Gaines, explained the network’s misstep by saying someone in the newsroom received the Palin item in an e-mail message from a colleague and assumed it had been checked out. “It had not been vetted,” he said. “It should not have made air.”

But most of Eisenstadt’s victims have been bloggers, a reflection of the sloppy speed at which any tidbit, no matter how specious, can bounce around the Internet. And they fell for the fake material despite ample warnings online about Eisenstadt, including the work of one blogger who spent months chasing the illusion around cyberspace, trying to debunk it.

The hoax began a year ago with short videos of a parking valet character, who Mr. Gorlin and Mr. Mirvish said was the original idea for a TV series.

Soon there were videos showing him driving a car while spouting offensive, opinionated nonsense in praise of Rudolph W. Giuliani. Those videos attracted tens of thousands of Internet hits and a bit of news media attention.

When Mr. Giuliani dropped out of the presidential race, the character morphed into Eisenstadt, a parody of a blowhard cable news commentator.

Mr. Gorlin said they chose the name because “all the neocons in the Bush administration had Jewish last names and Christian first names.”

Eisenstadt became an adviser to Senator John McCain and got a blog, updated occasionally with comments claiming insider knowledge, and other bloggers began quoting and linking to it. It mixed weird-but-true items with false ones that were plausible, if just barely.

The inventors fabricated the Harding Institute, named for one of the most scorned presidents, and made Eisenstadt a senior fellow.

It didn’t hurt that a man named Michael Eisenstadt is a real expert at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and is quoted in the mainstream media. The real Mr. Eisenstadt said in an interview that he was only dimly aware of the fake one, and that his main concern was that people understood that “I had
nothing to do with this.”

Before long Mr. Gorlin and Mr. Mirvish had produced a short documentary on Martin Eisenstadt, supposedly for the BBC, posted in several parts on YouTube.

In June they produced what appeared to be an interview with Eisenstadt on Iraqi television promoting construction of a casino in the Green Zone in Baghdad. Then they sent out a news release in which he apologized. Outraged Iraqi bloggers protested the casino idea.

Among the Americans who took that bait was Jonathan Stein, a reporter for Mother Jones. A few hours later Mr. Stein put up a post on the magazine’s political blog, with the title “Hoax Alert: Bizarre ‘McCain Adviser’ Too Good to Be True,” and explained how he had been fooled.

In July, after the McCain campaign compared Senator Barack Obama to Paris Hilton, the Eisenstadt blog said “the phone was burning off the hook” at McCain headquarters, with angry calls from Ms. Hilton’s grandfather and others. A Los Angeles Times political blog, among others, retold the story, citing
Eisenstadt by name and linking to his blog.

Last month Eisenstadt blogged that Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, Joe the Plumber, was closely related to Charles Keating, the disgraced former savings and loan chief. It wasn’t true, but other bloggers ran with it.

Among those taken in by Monday’s confession about the Palin Africa report was The New Republic’s political blog. Later the magazine posted this atop the entry: “Oy — this would appear to be a hoax. Apologies.”

But the truth was out for all to see long before the big-name take-downs. For months sourcewatch.org has identified Martin Eisenstadt as a hoax. When Mr. Stein was the victim, he blogged that “there was enough info on the Web that I should have sussed this thing out.”

And then there is William K. Wolfrum, a blogger who has played Javert to Eisenstadt’s Valjean, tracking the hoaxster across cyberspace and repeatedly debunking his claims. Mr. Gorlin and Mr. Mirvish praised his tenacity, adding that the news media could learn something from him.

“As if there isn’t enough misinformation on this election, it was shocking to see so much time wasted on things that didn’t exist,” Mr. Wolfrum said in an interview.

And how can we know that Mr. Wolfrum is real and not part of the hoax?
================================================== ====

For the record, I didn't buy into the Palin rumors for all that long. It was far too over-the-top. Palin isn't a well-spoken women, but she's not nearly as dumb as Obama's supporters have made her out to be.

FOXNews isn't the only news station that ran with this story, and isn't the only one to refuse to retract their story. As if I needed another reason to never get my news from the TV. After all, you can't have a bad reputation if you don't admit fault, right?

[revolutionary8]

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years........It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."
David Rockefeller from his memoirs.

I am absolutely postive that the media is out to slaughter Palin- this does not make her "one of us".
However, I will stop worrying about the supposed "Africa" issue, and I will focus in on her Isreal and Iran issue.
I believe that the Africa issue is a whitewash.

[Conservative Christian]

I'm not a Palin supporter, but I had a strong feeling that the "She didn't know Africa was a continent" story was bogus from the first time I heard it.

Palin's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but she's not an idiot either.

[lodge939]

You learn the continents when you are 5 years old. This was ridiculous.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I'm quite sure most of the nonsense that was generated by the media against Palin was just that..nonsense..and ya'll believed every bit of it. Gibsons EDITED interview with Palin when he looked down his nose at her, also Catie Couric's bogus EDITED interview. AND I consider the neo cons SET her up..if you still believe that crap..well...you need to grow up. Why is it when anyone discusses Sarah Palin on here..they have to qualifiy the remarks with "She's not one of us but..." or "I'm not a fan of Sarah Palin...". Are you afraid of getting slammed here? Is this forum a popularity contest..or for some truth? GROW UP please if you are going to be active in politics..please try not to act like college kids...rise above it. I am never afraid to say unpopular things. I am a seeker of TRUTH. Tones

[sratiug]

I'm quite sure most of the nonsense that was generated by the media against Palin was just that..nonsense..and ya'll believed every bit of it. Gibsons EDITED interview with Palin when he looked down his nose at her, also Catie Couric's bogus EDITED interview. AND I consider the neo cons SET her up..if you still believe that crap..well...you need to grow up. Why is it when anyone discusses Sarah Palin on here..they have to qualifiy the remarks with "She's not one of us but..." or "I'm not a fan of Sarah Palin...". Are you afraid of getting slammed here? Is this forum a popularity contest..or for some truth? GROW UP please if you are going to be active in politics..please try not to act like college kids...rise above it. I am never afraid to say unpopular things. I am a seeker of TRUTH. Tones

True, we need to focus on making her one of us. She is not afraid of the dimwits running our country. She just needs a little more educating.

[Roxi]

all the minute details of this entire thing are pretty stupid.... the broader picture however is hilarious.

making up news stories just to see if MSM will run them without fact checking is too funny, I have to wonder if there were thousands of people doing this all over the place would Murdoch's head eventually explode? :D

[tonesforjonesbones]

Palin is one of us. She was one of us when she supported the Alaskan independence party's idea of secession, she was one of us when she cut massive government spending in Alaska, she was one of us when she said good things aboput Ron Paul, she was one of us when she supported Pat Buchanan, she was one of us when she went up against the good ole boy network to win the governership. She has always been one of us. That is why the secular progressives and the neo cons hate her. Tones

[slacker921]

Palin is one of us. She was one of us when she supported the Alaskan independence party's idea of secession, she was one of us when she cut massive government spending in Alaska, she was one of us when she said good things aboput Ron Paul, she was one of us when she supported Pat Buchanan, she was one of us when she went up against the good ole boy network to win the governership. She has always been one of us. That is why the secular progressives and the neo cons hate her. Tones


Was she one of us when she went and met with AIPAC and pledged her lifelong support to Israel? How about that Israeli flag in her office (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127445)?
Was she one of us when she talked at length about how we should continue fighting in the Middle East?

btw..

Gov. Palin explained that her alleged "support" of Buchanan consisted of her sporting a campaign button for him in 1999 when he visited the town of Wasilla when she was the mayor. Palin explained at the time she wore the button as a courtesy and that she was an official of the campaign of Republican presidential contender Steve Forbes.

She couldn't name a major newspaper or magazine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyoafptEm5c)... and even if she could she was too terrified to admit which ones she reads and so just stammered around... to me that's just as bad as not knowing that Africa is a continent.

[moostraks]

I'm quite sure most of the nonsense that was generated by the media against Palin was just that..nonsense..and ya'll believed every bit of it. Gibsons EDITED interview with Palin when he looked down his nose at her, also Catie Couric's bogus EDITED interview. AND I consider the neo cons SET her up..if you still believe that crap..well...you need to grow up. Why is it when anyone discusses Sarah Palin on here..they have to qualifiy the remarks with "She's not one of us but..." or "I'm not a fan of Sarah Palin...". Are you afraid of getting slammed here? Is this forum a popularity contest..or for some truth? GROW UP please if you are going to be active in politics..please try not to act like college kids...rise above it. I am never afraid to say unpopular things. I am a seeker of TRUTH. Tones

Generalize much??? Why must you act like you are only only true crusader for liberty and why must we constantly hear how evil it is to question the motives of someone who is as pro-war as Palin? The fact that she supports the empire building cuts to the core of how much of one of us she ain't.It is one of the key platforms of the right wing neo-con agenda. As well as that god's will crap she and her fellow false christians spew when it comes to murdering others especially because the others aren't religiously aligned with them.

War is a solution to a problem due to man's inability to think of a better, more creative solution to a problem. In simple english it is a failure to communicate.

[heavenlyboy34]

Generalize much??? Why must you act like you are only only true crusader for liberty and why must we constantly hear how evil it is to question the motives of someone who is as pro-war as Palin? The fact that she supports the empire building cuts to the core of how much of one of us she ain't.It is one of the key platforms of the right wing neo-con agenda. As well as that god's will crap she and her fellow false christians spew when it comes to murdering others especially because the others aren't religiously aligned with them.

War is a solution to a problem due to man's inability to think of a better, more creative solution to a problem. In simple english it is a failure to communicate.

She and her campaign also tried to bury her husband's involvement in the AIP. If she were truly a freedom fighter, she would have spoken against just about the entire GOP platform. I say she was just a distraction to make the masses care about another irrelevant "election".

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

I'm quite sure most of the nonsense that was generated by the media against Palin was just that..nonsense..and ya'll believed every bit of it. Gibsons EDITED interview with Palin when he looked down his nose at her, also Catie Couric's bogus EDITED interview. AND I consider the neo cons SET her up..if you still believe that crap..well...you need to grow up. Why is it when anyone discusses Sarah Palin on here..they have to qualifiy the remarks with "She's not one of us but..." or "I'm not a fan of Sarah Palin...". Are you afraid of getting slammed here? Is this forum a popularity contest..or for some truth? GROW UP please if you are going to be active in politics..please try not to act like college kids...rise above it. I am never afraid to say unpopular things. I am a seeker of TRUTH. TonesIf by "us" you mean the conservative christian vanguard that will bite on virtually anything that someone with a cross around their neck says, then yeah, she's certainly one of us.

[angelatc]

You learn the continents when you are 5 years old. This was ridiculous.

Did you bother to read the article? She never said it. Period. It wasn't leaked, it wasn't an insider rumor - it was intentional disinformation.

[angelatc]

making up news stories just to see if MSM will run them without fact checking is too funny, I have to wonder if there were thousands of people doing this all over the place would Murdoch's head eventually explode? :D

It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.

And Fox News is still standing by the story. :)

[sratiug]

Was she one of us when she went and met with AIPAC and pledged her lifelong support to Israel? How about that Israeli flag in her office (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127445)?
Was she one of us when she talked at length about how we should continue fighting in the Middle East?

btw..


She couldn't name a major newspaper or magazine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyoafptEm5c)... and even if she could she was too terrified to admit which ones she reads and so just stammered around... to me that's just as bad as not knowing that Africa is a continent.

Yes the Israeli thing is very bad, imo. But wasn't Forbes running on a gold standard platform? And what mainstream magazine is not controlled by the NWO?

[Conservative Christian]

Palin is one of us. She was one of us when she supported the Alaskan independence party's idea of secession, she was one of us when she cut massive government spending in Alaska, she was one of us when she said good things aboput Ron Paul, she was one of us when she supported Pat Buchanan, she was one of us when she went up against the good ole boy network to win the governership. She has always been one of us. That is why the secular progressives and the neo cons hate her.

The neocons "hate" her?! William "King of the neocons" Kristol (son of the founder of the neocon movement, Irving Kristol), played a prominent role in convincing neocon McCain and the neocon-controlled Republican National Committee, to choose Palin for the VP slot.

During her tenure as mayor of Wasilla, long-term public (i.e. taxpayer) debt snowballed from one million to 25 million dollars, primarily because of the pork-barrel "Multi-Use Sports Complex" project that Palin had initiated and spearheaded.

Palin also played a key role in lobbying for millions of dollars in federal (i.e. taxpayer) funds, both as mayor of Wasilla and as governor of the state.

In 2007, governor Palin signed into law the largest state operating budget in Alaska history, 6.6 billion dollars.

She was also an initiator and supporter of "The Bridge to Nowhere", a multi-million dollar pork-barrel project that would benefit about fifty people on a small island. Due to public pressure from taxpayers in other parts of the state, the project was scrapped.

However, during her vice-presidential campaign, both Palin and McCain made statements to the effect that Palin had been an "opponent" of the bridge. Which was quite simply an outright neocon lie.

Of course, Palin has also staunchly defended Bush's Iraq war, a pet project of the New World Order neocons. If she were a GENUINE enemy of the neocons, she quite simply would've never been selected for the VP slot.

[Conservative Christian]

And Fox News is still standing by the story.

Does anybody honestly care what the phony conservatives at Faux News believe, say or do? :p

[Roxi]

It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.

And Fox News is still standing by the story. :)


i see your point, and your right it is dangerous, but i tend to think it can't be any worse than the OTHER bullshit FOX claims to be true either,

the only way to save this country is if something happens to murdoch, and all of his affiliates are wiped out

otherwise FOX and CNN will continue brainwashing people

my mom is such a good example, she went from neocon, to total ron paul supporter, begged us to campaign for bob barr, and then in ONE DAY, because of an article she saw on FOX or CNN, she changed her mind and started convincing everyone to vote for mccain, she used the words raghead, and N***ers, and several others, it was like she had been hypnotized...

ok im rambling

[angelatc]

i see your point, and your right it is dangerous, but i tend to think it can't be any worse than the OTHER bullshit FOX claims to be true either,

the only way to save this country is if something happens to murdoch, and all of his affiliates are wiped out

otherwise FOX and CNN will continue brainwashing people

my mom is such a good example, she went from neocon, to total ron paul supporter, begged us to campaign for bob barr, and then in ONE DAY, because of an article she saw on FOX or CNN, she changed her mind and started convincing everyone to vote for mccain, she used the words raghead, and N***ers, and several others, it was like she had been hypnotized...

ok im rambling

That's why it is so dangerous. I don't think Fox is the only network capable of that level of control. :(

[Golding]

Did you bother to read the article? She never said it. Period. It wasn't leaked, it wasn't an insider rumor - it was intentional disinformation.Re-read his post. He's saying that the suggestion that Palin didn't know Africa was a continent was so ridiculous that there was no way it could have been true.

[tonesforjonesbones]

What part of "she never said it" that you dont understand? you WANT to believe she said it because YOU have been brainwashed yourselves. Open you minds people. Most of you jumped on the "berate Palin" bandwagon as soon as the LIBERAL LOON media did. shame! I guess it was the "popular" thing to do at the time..talk about a bunch of populists...right here on this forum! tones

[roho76]

True, we need to focus on making her one of us. She is not afraid of the dimwits running our country. She just needs a little more educating.

I'm sorry but 'Africa' joke aside this chick is a bat shit crazy Zionist and should not be trusted on that fact alone.

[James Madison]

I'm sorry but 'Africa' joke aside this chick is a bat shit crazy Zionist and should not be trusted on that fact alone.

This is a good point. So is Obama. But as bad as Sarah Palin is, she seemed to believe in limited government and gun-rights. The point is, McCain was likely told behind the scenes to take her as his veep. Of course, the NWO was behind all of this. To be honest, I think Palin actually means well and isn't privy to the bigger picture, but she was put there to guarantee an Obama victory. Notice how the MSM didn't bring up real issues like her unwaivering support of Israel. Instead they trashed her because she was a Christian and liked to hunt...complete brainwashing.

[moostraks]

What part of "she never said it" that you dont understand? you WANT to believe she said it because YOU have been brainwashed yourselves. Open you minds people. Most of you jumped on the "berate Palin" bandwagon as soon as the LIBERAL LOON media did. shame! I guess it was the "popular" thing to do at the time..talk about a bunch of populists...right here on this forum! tones

I can't believe you are beating this dead horse...Looking over the responses most of us didn't put any real weight behind a news report on Palin and Africa. Most of us trust the msm about as far as we can verify information. This story was purely he said, she said garbage of a tabloid nature. Most of the responses to you are more specifically disgusted with her empire building attitude which is a core neo-con policy and very much so the root of the waste in the federal government. Not to mention the ill will we receive because of our thoughtless policies towards other countries sovereignty.As well as the lack of respect we have for the loss of human life, our own citizens included.

Furthermore, my beef came from someone who has such little regard for her own family that she would not consider their needs as being more important than her own selfish desire for fame and power. Her family is collapsing around her ears, she has a high needs infant, and yet she is going to take the position a heart beat away from running the country? She is a disgrace to christian families and and a disgrace to moms of many children. She put a bad face to large families as being disfunctional in a society that loves to paint large families as having moms that are selfish and think of nothing but their own needs.

Also as far as the whole troopergate scandal went it was not exactly complimetary and yet she spun it just as she manipulated many facts to try and coerce people into believing she was a victim. The nepotism and conniving she displayed should give pause to anyone when it comes to allowing her to continue in, much less increase, her position of power at a high level.

So looking back over the few issues I have with Palin she is an idiot or a selfish, evil wench since she cannot or will not correlate cause/effect relationships. Calling her an idiot would be giving her the benefit of the doubt...

Why don't you join a Sarah Palin Forum and stop trying to turns this one into one???

[moostraks]

This is a good point. So is Obama. But as bad as Sarah Palin is, she seemed to believe in limited government and gun-rights. The point is, McCain was likely told behind the scenes to take her as his veep. Of course, the NWO was behind all of this. To be honest, I think Palin actually means well and isn't privy to the bigger picture, but she was put there to guarantee an Obama victory. Notice how the MSM didn't bring up real issues like her unwaivering support of Israel. Instead they trashed her because she was a Christian and liked to hunt...complete brainwashing.

True Christians don't believe in blowing up countries due to pre-emptive war theory...

[sailor]

The Africa Palin thing always seemed fishy to me. Palin is a bumpkin no doubt, but that was just over the top.

[virgil47]

I'm surprised by the number of neo-nazi Jew haters on this forum! You all talk about civil rights and about not being bigoted and then you bash Palin for supporting our ONLY ally in the middle east. WTF is that all about.

[angelatc]

I'm surprised by the number of neo-nazi Jew haters on this forum! You all talk about civil rights and about not being bigoted and then you bash Palin for supporting our ONLY ally in the middle east. WTF is that all about.

We're not big on allies or enemies. We prefer to stay out of messy foreign entanglements.

[angelatc]

If you're still reading this thread - this is priceless! Be sure to read the comments for the laugh. There are only 3.....

http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2008/11/13/who-is-martin-eisenstadt/

[LibertyEagle]

We're not big on allies or enemies. We prefer to stay out of messy foreign entanglements.

+1

[tonesforjonesbones]

Moonstraks...go kiss your obama's deriere. I like Palin..the fact that people are sTILL talking about her incessently ..is that they FEAR her...they FEAR her Christianity..and her morals and values. YES..she has them. if you think because he daughter got pregnant that there are no morals and values..then you are a nimrod. People either love her or hate her..doens't seem to be any in between. I think it is funny that the left wing commie loons continue to trash her...there must be a reason for it. The election is ovah...but you still whine lol. tones

[libertarian4321]

Gibsons EDITED interview with Palin when he looked down his nose at her, also Catie Couric's bogus EDITED interview.

C'mon. I'm sure there was some editing, but her answers were rambling and incoherent, reminiscent of the infamous "Miss South Carolina." That wasn't "editing"- that was pure Sarah Palin- dazed, confused, and unable to focus. Its exactly the kind of answer one would expect to get from someone who has no command of the issues.

Folks, this woman is no genius. It took her 6 years and 4 transfers to get a BA in Journalism from the less than prestigious University of Idaho.

She's cutesy, she's folksy, she's aggressive, and she knows how to play the part of a populist hero, but she's just not very well educated, and probably not all that bright.


AND I consider the neo cons SET her up..if you still believe that crap..well...you need to grow up. GROW UP please if you are going to be active in politics..please try not to act like college kids...rise above it.

Look, you have decided Sarah Palin is a hero, and you won't hear otherwise. I understand that. That doesn't mean those who think you are grossly misguided are kids who need to grow up.

You use this "grow up" argument all the time to put down anyone who disagrees with you. Frankly, it seems to be your ONLY argument. I guess you and Palin are both "limited."

As I have said previously, I'll put my life experience, intelligence, and education up against yours anytime. I'm a successful middle aged guy, military veteran, multiple college degrees- I'm not a 19 year old Journalism major at the U. of Idaho. Nor, I suspect, are most of the others who disagree with you.

Don't give me the lame "grow up" nonsense- do something to convince me that Palin isn't the uneducated fool she appears to be.


I am never afraid to say unpopular things. I am a seeker of TRUTH.

You won't find the truth with your head planted firmly in the sand...

[moostraks]

Moonstraks...go kiss your obama's deriere. I like Palin..the fact that people are sTILL talking about her incessently ..is that they FEAR her...they FEAR her Christianity..and her morals and values. YES..she has them. if you think because he daughter got pregnant that there are no morals and values..then you are a nimrod. People either love her or hate her..doens't seem to be any in between. I think it is funny that the left wing commie loons continue to trash her...there must be a reason for it. The election is ovah...but you still whine lol. tones

Ah, no thanks sweetie!!! That would have been Chuck Baldwin's butt for me hunny. He was the one I voted for. In your little universe though that makes me an Obama lover.:rolleyes:

Fear her? Most definately. She is a disgrace to those who actually are Christians. Being a Christian is hard work and it means putting God first, family second, all other issues come after that. Palin put her career before family and it is evidenced by how she did not consider that the fact her children are as disfunctional as they are is a result at least in part of her high needs career. Some people can multi-task and have the family resources to weather being in a successful career with a family, it is quite evident the Palin family is lacking those resources and yet Palin does not care she is so ego driven she would put them in the spotlight for ridicule and take on even more responsibilty. You don't have to be a left wing commie loon to realize this.

Taking the spiritual desccription from the bible of good church leadership, we should use the same common sense when picking a person in government

"1 Timothy 3:1-7
Context

Qualifications for Overseers and Deacons
3:1 This saying 1 is trustworthy: “If someone aspires to the office of overseer, 2 he desires a good work.” 3:2 The overseer 3 then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, 4 temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money. 3:4 He must manage his own household well and keep his children in control without losing his dignity. 5 3:5 But if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for the church of God?"

Since you apparently seem to be associating yourself with Palin's religion of choice, Christianity, you might want to consiider heeding some of the foundational book's advice.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist nor is it slander to realize that when someone's underage child is pregnant she was clearly seeking attention or she felt a void. Healthy, secure people do not get pregnant at that age. Vilifying people because they disagree with you is unnecessary. If you claim to be a Christian it is easy to understand why so many people can't stand Christians because of the contemptuous attitude so often embraced by those who claim the faith.

"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Galatians 6:1

… let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. 1 Peter 4:3

Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. Matthew 11:29

…to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. Titus 3:2"

I am just as guilty as others to be forceful sometimes when I earnestly believe in something, but your posts are over the top usually denigrating to rude personnal attacks as this one has. Stop lumping us all in together and blindly demanding that we agree with you. If you want to be pro-Palin good for you but say your peace and put a constructive argument forward without turning into a whining maggot blaming everyone for evil because we think elsewise.

I am a spiritual person who parents a large family and feel that Palin did a great disservice to her family, my religion, and women in general and feel you have yet to prove your case by stating anything of value more than it was the evil media that paints her in a poor light. I think she does a mighty fine job of doing that on her own and drew my conclusions without aid of msm spin. Considering the overwhelming amount of time I have the local fox affiliate on if msm was to warp my views it should have been to be pro-Palin as yourself spouting the same lines you do from the Pro-Palin indoctrination camp.

[lodge939]

I can't believe the arrogance. Now you're judging how Palin's family lives? She said in interviews she cleared the VP run with them and also that Todd sleeps 1-2 hours a night. They do things differently in Alaska.

[moostraks]

I can't believe the arrogance. Now you're judging how Palin's family lives? She said in interviews she cleared the VP run with them and also that Todd sleeps 1-2 hours a night. They do things differently in Alaska.

:rolleyes: In making decisions with a family it is up to the adults to see that weight of the responsibilty, not for the children to say whether or not they want to do it. They should have been realistic and mature (the Palin adults) and concluded that they weren't exactly providing a stable environment if one of the children was needy enough to have gotten pregnant underage and out of wedlock. As far as the fact that Mr.Palin sleeps for 2 hours, that does not indicate someone who is getting enough functional sleep to deal with the family issues that will rise up in a household with many children. Especially witha high needs infant and a pregnant child much less the other gory details the media dredged up and spewed about their family, if there is any basis in fact on those.

"They do things differntly in Alaska" has got to be the most shameful excuse for ignoring the issues that indicate a clearly chaotic household not conducive of an individual applying for one of the largest leadership roles in the world. Furthermore it certainly isn't arrogant as a parent of many children with some experience with a difficult teen-ager to be pointing out what I see as an obvious character flaw and asking others to be aware and not conciliatory on the issue. If you want advice on large family dynamics you go to someone who is participating in one...

Palin needs to get her homelife straight before she pushes forth on the political scene. Then she can be flatly destroyed for being on all the wrong sides of the issues.

[lodge939]

Your arrogance is breathtaking.

[acptulsa]

Palin is one of us. Tones

Sure makes me glad I'm not.

Whatever it is that you are, tones, I certainly don't wish to join the club. You're insistence that most of us on this forum are bought into the left/right false paradigm, however, is either laughable, sad or both. You would be the last holdout on this forum, assuming we've heard the last of that paid troll EndTheFed. And I doubt he actually takes the age old wedgies seriously the way you do.

But hey, whatever...

I'm just glad I'm not stupid enough to accuse everyone who disagrees with me of being a brainwashed member of the other side of the simplistic and irrelevant (but officially approved) false dichotomy. Much nicer to actually be able to address their concerns from my own position and think for myself.

I just can't figure out where the 'us' comes from. You are among the very few prattling Palinesque plainly partisan pea-pickers on this board. Perhaps this is your version of the 'royal we'..?

[Natalie]

I never believed Palin didn't know Africa was a continent. She's not as stupid as they're making her out to be.

[tonesforjonesbones]

paid troll? doubtful...another silly remark. You think all who didn't do the wrong thing, like vote third party, are trolls. Ron Paul is a republican, he stayed in the republican party. he recently reminded you that is where he stands..and you REFUSE to accept it. You see what you WANT to see...Ron PAUL is a REPUBLICAN...not a libertarian. Tones

[moostraks]

Your arrogance is breathtaking.

Do you have anything constructive to say or are you just out to berate people today?

[moostraks]

RP stood behind not supporting the liberal/conservative false dichotomy that you seem to be insistant upon embracing, Tones. Maybe you might want to analyze why Dr.Paul would hold a press conference for third parties and flately refused to support the republican ticket this go'round.

Work within, work without the republican party. For some it is quite evident that the republican party wants no part of liberty for all. Usually indicated by a mindset riddled with accusations like do it my way or you're an unpatriotic commie.