Why aren't the sheeple pissed off at low gas prices?

[RCA]

It always bugs me that people complain about high gas prices bet never low gas prices. Don't both signal manipulation when the there has been almost a $3.00 swing in 3 months? Doesn't this put holes in all the "hurricane/Iran" excuses for high prices 3 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I like cheap gas as much as the next guy but is everyone really that stupid to think a $3.00 swing in such a short time is ok???

[Bruno]

People rarely complain when the price of gas drops, regardless of the reason.

"My 401k is in the tank, the economy sucks, I might lose my job, and my wife may leave me for my best friend and take the dog with her, but at least gas is under $2/gallon!"

Like politics, economics is local.

[forsmant]

OPEC is complaining!

[Zera]

cheap gas is cheap gas, quit your yappin' :)

Might as well enjoy it anyway, it'll go back up soon enough.

[RCA]

cheap gas is cheap gas, quit your yappin' :)

Might as well enjoy it anyway, it'll go back up soon enough.

You missed the point of my post on about three levels. If you want to know what I was referring to reread my original post.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Of course it's manipulation, I tell everyone, it's a great conversation starter.

[paulitics]

It's bad for small businesses that have made huge investments in purchasing equipment based on the expectation of oil being priced high. The big companies can weather the fluctuations better.

It also hurts capitalists who invest in practical alternatives like the electric car. This huge fluctuations in prices have occured in the past and has suppressed technology from overtaking something that by now should be archaic. Controling the world's energy is and always has been a great way to maintain power over the people. History keeps repeating itself.

[boethius27]

I'll take cheap gas over pricey gas anyday...

[forsmant]

Fucking stocks are way down too! So is silver, copper and many other commodities. God Damn market manipulation! Its like the dollar is gaining or something.

[the biss]

Yeah, I completely understand the OP's sentiment. I drove by the Murphy station this evening to se $1.98 and I thought, "The fuckers... we've been paying $4.00 for this and lining their pocketbooks all the way to the bank." I was pretty angry about it myself. I did not stop and get gas.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Wow, you are way overestimating the amount of thought most people are willing or able to give this issue.

Manipulation is just fine, as far as most americans are concerned, as long as they can reap the short term rewards.

[ClayTrainor]

Do we have any reasonable estimates as to when the will probably start rising again?

And is it stupid not to buy Crude Oil stock right now?

Seems like its an amazing time to buy if prices are at an all time low and expected to rise.

[Jeremy]

im failing to see why someone would complain

[haaaylee]

explain to me why this is bad. pretend im stupid and an average american....

[jkm1864]

Well I dont do a lot of driving to say the least so the gas could go to 5 dollars a gallon and I wouldn't care much. As a matter of fact I work offshore and all I have to do is make it to the office which is a 1.5 hour drive and my car sits in the lot for a month or two. I have about 13k on my mustang which I bought in 2006 and the old lady has put most of that on there. I seriously think its going to go up again though and I wouldn't be surprised if it went up to 12 dollars a gallon. Oh let the sheeple scream and cry at that situation. You know you would think they would wake up but I seriously doubt it. Maybe they will go back to their grand mothers basement and drink their koolaid.

[Tarabell952]

I'm kind of pissed off because I'm still paying $2.30 or so a gallon when everyone, everywhere else in the country is under $2.00. Sometimes I feel like strangling someone about this, but I'm not sure who to strangle.

[Danke]

Well I dont do a lot of driving to say the least so the gas could go to 5 dollars a gallon and I wouldn't care much. As a matter of fact I work offshore and all I have to do is make it to the office which is a 1.5 hour drive and my car sits in the lot for a month or two. I have about 13k on my mustang which I bought in 2006 and the old lady has put most of that on there. I seriously think its going to go up again though and I wouldn't be surprised if it went up to 12 dollars a gallon. Oh let the sheeple scream and cry at that situation. You know you would think they would wake up but I seriously doubt it. Maybe they will go back to their grand mothers basement and drink their koolaid.

Maybe not. But high fuel prices is more than how much cash it takes to run a car. The whole economy suffers and all prices of transported good raise.

[sevin]

I think it's a distraction for the average American. I was talking to a friend about the economy, and he said, his exact words: "It might not be so bad. The price of gas is going down." I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

[james1906]

Yeah, commodity manipulation sucks. Now go and take a road trip before "home heating demand" sends it back over $4.

[forsmant]

I thought falling prices was the "cure" for the previous injection of liquidity and inflation. Silly me economics is for bunchies.

[satchelmcqueen]

It always bugs me that people complain about high gas prices bet never low gas prices. Don't both signal manipulation when the there has been almost a $3.00 swing in 3 months? Doesn't this put holes in all the "hurricane/Iran" excuses for high prices 3 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I like cheap gas as much as the next guy but is everyone really that stupid to think a $3.00 swing in such a short time is ok???

yeah i get what you mean and i think the same way. it does show huge manipulation in the prices. it should not be more than $1.50 IMO in almost any situation. the hurricane excuse started 6 years ago or so, but before that during hurricanes i dont ever recall gas going up at all when one hit land or better yet "was close" or "might cause damage". its also funny to me that Katrina was a cat5 storm and gas hit $3.20 where i lived and stayed there for months, but this last storm was a cat 2 and gas shot to almost $4.30 here and stayed that way until a few months back for no real reason IMO other than manipulation through collusion and speculators.

also during katrina when prices stayed very high, our government said it was investigating the oil companies to make sure they were doing nothing to cause high prices such as purposely cutting production which to them was wrong and punishable.

now we have heard 2 times in the last month from the oil companies THEMSELVES say they are cutting production to boost prices. Where is the government now???? not that they could do much anyway, but i hope you see my point.



i think the OP is making the point that when prices fall most sheeple dont ask or wonder why it happens. low gas is good for the working people and the economy IMO and it should be very affordable, but most people are just content with the moment rather than the reason.

[newbitech]

explain to me why this is bad. pretend im stupid and an average american....

what is bad is the cost of oil. The cost of oil is what has driven down gas prices. the reason oil has gone down is because the expectations of a global recession/depression.

Did you notice that even though the price of gas has come down, almost everything else has stayed inflated? And here we thought the reason food prices went up was because the cost to transport food went up. Well if that was the reason, then we should see prices of everything start to tumble.

No this is bad because what we are seeing is an deflated value of our dollar in the oil market and in the oil market only. This can only mean that there is a low demand for our dollars in the oil market. This is also why OPEC is threatening to cut supply by a million barrels a day. What you are witnessing is the world shifting from buying oil is dollars. This is just the beginning of the collapse of world dollar hegemony in the oil market.

While the dollar was collapsing do to the federal government debasing the currency, many nations such as China and Japan that holds our debt (FRN or dollars) began hedging in the oil market. That's why the price spiked and overshot on the upside. Now they are unloading the oil in other currency to recoup the lost value of the dollar. Once the oil market stabilizes with no dominate currency, expect to see the dollar plummet and the hyperinflation kick in.

This is bad because it is a signal that the dollar is collapsing globally. Sub 2.00 gas CANNOT last.

[jeepndesert]

sucker rally!

spend spend spend once more before you're homeless and bankrupt on the streets.

[Bossobass]

It always bugs me that people complain about high gas prices bet never low gas prices. Don't both signal manipulation when the there has been almost a $3.00 swing in 3 months? Doesn't this put holes in all the "hurricane/Iran" excuses for high prices 3 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I like cheap gas as much as the next guy but is everyone really that stupid to think a $3.00 swing in such a short time is ok???

I'm with you 100%.

Oil is what gave the Rockefellers a seat at the table 100 years ago.

The shit is poison.

If Americans truly wanted dirt cheap oil, they'd stop buying POS vehicles that average 20 mpg.


Today, 50 percent of the new passenger vehicles sold are SUVs and light trucks that do not have to meet the higher fuel economy standards of cars.

In 1908, the Ford model T was flex fuel and averaged 25 mpg. For those not good at math, that's 100 YEARS!


For the past few weeks, Volkswagen has been hyping a road trip. One couple, Helen and John Taylor, set off to cross the country in a new 2009 VW Jetta TDI and traveled across the lower 48 states in 20 days, covering 9,419 miles. Their diesel-powered Jetta returned an average of 58.82 mpg, which set a Guinness World Record (previously 51.58 mpg).

I drive one and can confirm my average is just over 50 mpg (city/highway combined). I have the ability to make my own diesel fuel from waste vegetable oil from a local restaurant and the end cost is between 60-70 cents per gallon.

VW makes a 3 cylinder version that gets 80 mpg. I tried to buy one but was told that they can't sell to America for warranty reasons. Bullshit.

If we upped our average usage from the current 22 mpg to 50 mpg, the oil tankers would be lined up from the Gulf of Mexico to the Persian Gulf in 30 days.

If we used our inventions (Americans are the most inventive people who ever lived. Check the USPTO. Tesla, who invented AC power, remote control, radio, wireless electricity, laser technology, etc., won over 700 patents, but died penniless) in a true free market, instead of big corps buying and shelving, squeezing out the competition and worse, we'd see off the charts improvement in health and energy use.

So, yes, of course I get your contention that the price of gasoline is (and always has been) manipulated and I wholeheartedly agree, but it doesn't stop there. The vehicles that burn the shit are manipulated. Competing technology is manipulated. Improvements to existing technology are manipulated (unless anyone actually admits to believing that in 100 fucking years 20 mpg is the best we could do).

What can we do about it? Stop buying the pieces of shit. I don't consider my Jetta to be a compromise. It's a very nice vehicle with all the safety BS with great handling and amenities. Still, I have badgered VW for 3 years regarding their lame excuses for not selling me a higher mpg car that they readily sell in Europe every day.

They sent me a letter 2 years ago that said they were 'test marketing the car in the US and would let me know the results'. I replied that I couldn't care less what the results might be. I'll fly to Spain, pay cash and pay to ship it to the US. I'll sign a warranty waiver and have it insured by an independent insurer for the entire cost of the vehicle in the case of mechanical failure.

They never test marketed the vehicle in the US. They still refuse to sell one to be shipped to America. If I go there and do it anyhow, US Customs will get involved.

Besides, I like pestering the big guys about oil guzzling POS. I just wish 20 million fellow Americans would join me. It would happen lightning fast if that ever were to become the case.

Bosso

[lodge939]

We need to bail out the oil companies.

[forsmant]

what is bad is the cost of oil. The cost of oil is what has driven down gas prices. the reason oil has gone down is because the expectations of a global recession/depression.

Did you notice that even though the price of gas has come down, almost everything else has stayed inflated? And here we thought the reason food prices went up was because the cost to transport food went up. Well if that was the reason, then we should see prices of everything start to tumble.

No this is bad because what we are seeing is an deflated value of our dollar in the oil market and in the oil market only. This can only mean that there is a low demand for our dollars in the oil market. This is also why OPEC is threatening to cut supply by a million barrels a day. What you are witnessing is the world shifting from buying oil is dollars. This is just the beginning of the collapse of world dollar hegemony in the oil market.

While the dollar was collapsing do to the federal government debasing the currency, many nations such as China and Japan that holds our debt (FRN or dollars) began hedging in the oil market. That's why the price spiked and overshot on the upside. Now they are unloading the oil in other currency to recoup the lost value of the dollar. Once the oil market stabilizes with no dominate currency, expect to see the dollar plummet and the hyperinflation kick in.

This is bad because it is a signal that the dollar is collapsing globally. Sub 2.00 gas CANNOT last.


How many other sectors have to go down before you stop calling it market manipulation? There are leading and lagging sectors in every cycle. Home prices are plummeting. Stocks are half off. Commodities are down, some by 50% or more. Automobile sales are way down, and retail is down as well. This will put downward pressure on all prices.

[RCA]

How many other sectors have to go down before you stop calling it market manipulation? There are leading and lagging sectors in every cycle. Home prices are plummeting. Stocks are half off. Commodities are down, some by 50% or more. Automobile sales are way down, and retail is down as well. This will put downward pressure on all prices.

Yup, all fed manipulation.

BTW, to the confused bunch. My post was to point out the idiocy in the masses that only care about "present" conditions. If prices are cheap now, they celebrate. Meanwhile they forget that only 3 months ago gas was $4.50/gallon due to a number of faux excuses handed to us by the elite. If they knew at the time that gas was worth only $1.50 but were paying $4.50 they'd riot. But since that was the past, albeit 3 months ago, but still the past, everything is just dandy! The fact that gas is now only $1.50 is the proof in the pudding that shows the gas prices this summer/last year were rigged. Fuck American Idol.

[undergroundrr]

Is it feasible that some power-that-be could be stockpiling oil cheaply for some future use, then the price could be jacked back up?

[forsmant]

I thought prices went down because there were more sellers than buyers. I forgot that the all mighty Federal Reserve Board is so smart that they can change the price of everything at will.

[RCA]

I thought prices went down because there were more sellers than buyers. I forgot that the all mighty Federal Reserve Board is so smart that they can change the price of everything at will.

They control the price of money and half of every transaction. So, yeah, almighty is fitting.

[Natalie]

I am not complaining. I filled my whole tank for 20.86 yesterday. woo!

[RCA]

I am not complaining. I filled my whole tank for 20.86 yesterday. woo!

Another misunderstanding of the original post.

[forsmant]

They control the price of money and half of every transaction. So, yeah, almighty is fitting.

That is just ridiculous. The Federal Reserve only controls the base money supply. There are 8000 banks that inflate on top of that base. The Federal reserve has influence much like pushing on a string does. They are incompetent and have a superiority complex. No one is omnipotent and no one can know the needs and wants of all people at all times. The system is a big FAIL!:(

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/bernanke_0_3.jpg

[RCA]

That is just ridiculous. The Federal Reserve only controls the base money supply. There are 8000 banks that inflate on top of that base. The Federal reserve has influence much like pushing on a string does. They are incompetent and have a superiority complex. No one is omnipotent and no one can know the needs and wants of all people at all times. The system is a big FAIL!:(

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/bernanke_0_3.jpg

At 2:00 I guess Ron Paul is wrong about the Fed controlling half of all transactions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4245169480003136735&ei=Kv7vSPyMPKP0qALzl4zeDg&q=ron+paul

:rolleyes:

[forsmant]

He overstates their influence.

[BarryDonegan]

There is a huge difference between "controlling" and intelligently controlling.

IMO oil is dropping due to a demand collapse.

Deflation is happening in more sectors than just that. The dollar is strong because the bailout money is not getting to the market and because defaulting loans and recently identified toxic mortgages are having the effect of shrinking the money supply for now.

IMO if the bail out never happened and the fed was dissolved the same thing would happen, its supposed to happen and the only way the fed can temporarily stop it is to put us into hyperinflation, which wouldn't stop deflation, in fact it would guarantee that it happens immediately after when the monetary system had to be replaced.

[newbitech]

How many other sectors have to go down before you stop calling it market manipulation? There are leading and lagging sectors in every cycle. Home prices are plummeting. Stocks are half off. Commodities are down, some by 50% or more. Automobile sales are way down, and retail is down as well. This will put downward pressure on all prices.

I didn't say anything about market manipulation. When you say leading and lagging sectors, I think what you mean is leading and lagging indicators. For instance, if you look at gas prices today, it is reflecting the drop in oil prices 2 months ago. The drop in gas prices would be considered a lagging indicator that oil demand in terms of dollars is drying up. On the other hand, an increase in global GDP and record sales by car manufacturers would be a leading indicator that demand for oil is on the rise and thus we can expect the price of gas to follow.

Home prices aren't "plummeting" they are simply seeking their correct value. That's what happens when an inflation bubble pops. Same thing with stocks.

The only reason oil prices are dropping is because the expectation of a global recession/depression. The only thing that will cure the depression is for America to repay its debt. The only way this debt gets repaid is to monetize it. That's when dollar hegemony ends and gas becomes a luxury that only the people who get the new currency first will be able to afford. That will go on until, we revolt, get invaded, or our govt starts a nuclear war. Our only chance to have gas prices stay low is to revolt. With the kind of mindset the OP is talking about, that will never happen. So get ready to get invaded or incinerated. Meanwhile, enjoy your cheap gas!

[Unspun]

It always bugs me that people complain about high gas prices bet never low gas prices. Don't both signal manipulation when the there has been almost a $3.00 swing in 3 months? Doesn't this put holes in all the "hurricane/Iran" excuses for high prices 3 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I like cheap gas as much as the next guy but is everyone really that stupid to think a $3.00 swing in such a short time is ok???

It has nothing to do with manipulation at all. Go look up margin calls and their relation to hedge funds and you will know why oil is down so much.

I wrote about it two weeks ago, because I saw a lot of misconception about why oil prices were down. I was tired of hearing, "THE BUBBLE HAS BURST!" and "OH MY GOD MANIPULATION!"...

http://www.theunspunzone.com/opinion/cartels-hedge-funds-and-oil-prices/

[newbitech]

There is a huge difference between "controlling" and intelligently controlling.

IMO oil is dropping due to a demand collapse.

Deflation is happening in more sectors than just that. The dollar is strong because the bailout money is not getting to the market and because defaulting loans and recently identified toxic mortgages are having the effect of shrinking the money supply for now.

IMO if the bail out never happened and the fed was dissolved the same thing would happen, its supposed to happen and the only way the fed can temporarily stop it is to put us into hyperinflation, which wouldn't stop deflation, in fact it would guarantee that it happens immediately after when the monetary system had to be replaced.


Are you talking price deflation? I don't think deflation will kick in because competition is dying and at the same time we are ripping the spending power out of the hands of the consumer. Check the latest unemployment reports. There really isn't much downward pressure on prices because there is less money to compete for goods and services.

[forsmant]

I didn't say anything about market manipulation. When you say leading and lagging sectors, I think what you mean is leading and lagging indicators. For instance, if you look at gas prices today, it is reflecting the drop in oil prices 2 months ago. The drop in gas prices would be considered a lagging indicator that oil demand in terms of dollars is drying up. On the other hand, an increase in global GDP and record sales by car manufacturers would be a leading indicator that demand for oil is on the rise and thus we can expect the price of gas to follow.

Home prices aren't "plummeting" they are simply seeking their correct value. That's what happens when an inflation bubble pops. Same thing with stocks.

The only reason oil prices are dropping is because the expectation of a global recession/depression. The only thing that will cure the depression is for America to repay its debt. The only way this debt gets repaid is to monetize it. That's when dollar hegemony ends and gas becomes a luxury that only the people who get the new currency first will be able to afford. That will go on until, we revolt, get invaded, or our govt starts a nuclear war. Our only chance to have gas prices stay low is to revolt. With the kind of mindset the OP is talking about, that will never happen. So get ready to get invaded or incinerated. Meanwhile, enjoy your cheap gas!

When prices seek there correct value at 40 %-70% lower than they were previously it is called plummeting. The graphs look like the feel off a cliff. That is why we have such descriptive terms, to dress up the language and make it more fun to read. Don't take the word plummet and dismiss it.

I meant leading and lagging sectors, such as home sales and new construction starts. Certainly one sector can be in a recession while others are in a bull market. One sectors fall may indicate the next sector to be affected.

Your arguments are semantic and your last paragraph is speculative. Stop attacking my words as they are used correctly.

I may have quoted the wrong post and did not mean to imply that you were saying market manipulation.