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bobbyw24
11-14-2008, 07:51 AM
Like it or Not, Ron Paul Republicans have to stay the GOP Course
by Sean Scallon
November 07, 2008
Election Night wasnīt a good night to be Ron Paul Republican, or any Republican for that matter. Nearly all of the candidates that identified themselves with Congressman Ron Paul (who was re-elected himself in Texas handily over a Libertarian opponent) were defeated, including the most celebrated, House of Representatives candidate B.J. Lawson of North Carolina, who only got 37 percent of the vote against veteran Democrat Rep. David Price.

Ron Paul Democrats also lost too as Senate candidate Bob Conley fell to Lindsay Graham by a 58-42 split. Not great but, considering Conley had almost no money to spend against Grahamīs fortune, not bad either.

Of course thereīs not much to talk about with the non-major parties either. Although, to be fair, all of them did better than their 2004 numbers. Ron Paul endorsed Rev. Chuck Baldwin did finish fourth and did better than any Constitution Party candidate had ever done before even on only 37 state ballots. However, all were far away from the one million vote barrier.

In fact, the only non-major party candidate who gained over one percent in any state was Paul himself, 2.2% in Montana.

Nothing more shows how dominant the two-party system is in U.S. than the taxpayer bailout of financial institutions. Even though many American were angered by the thought of their tax money being used to bail out failed companies through no fault of their own, the issue never had legs powerful enough to affect the outcome of the election. Price himself, for example, supported the bailout and still won 63 percent of the vote in his district. Once the majority of both parties supported it, the issue died a silent death and with no centrist MAR (Middle American Radical) or populist candidate like Ross Perot, George Wallace or John Anderson out there making an issue of it, it could not be resurrected.

Such are the candidacies that make for powerful non-major party runs for President and yet what they all have in common is the fact that all of their attempts at organizing a party around such candidacies have failed miserably and thus are legacies to history.

The non-major parties that have stuck around over the years like the Libertarians or the Greens or the CP do so because they stick up for certain principles that a hardcore group of activists support. However, such devotion to principle at the expense of the diversity of cultural, economic and religious groups are why such ideological parties are so small and will remain that way.

Non-major parties can be effective on the state and local level but not so on the national. You donīt need to run any more elections to prove this point.

So for the million or so Ron Paul supporters out there, wondering what to do now that the election and the two years of their lives it took up are over with, the choice for the future is clear.

They have to remain Republicans nationally.

Like it or not.

You can still have some Paul supporters be LP activists or CP activists depending upon where they live and how strong their local parties are. But the majority of them have to maintain the work theyīve already begun back when Paul first announced his intentions to run for President in February of 2007.

The Republicans were beaten badly on Election Day, but not to the point where their short term future is threatened.

They still have decent enough numbers among governors, U.S. Senators, House members, state legislators, local officials, etc. Their party label is still strong in the interior South, the Plains and Mountain West. They were in worse shape after losses in 1992, 1976, 1964, 1948, 1944 and 1940. Heck, after 1936 they were on the real verge of extinction.

However, the long term future of the GOP is what is in question. Obama won overwhelmingly among voters under 30 and won among Hispanics, African-American, Asian-Americans, all those who are a part of the growing diversification of the country. The GOP is saddled with an aging, white base.

The only Republican candidate running for President in 2008 who had strong support of young voters and several minority groups was Ron Paul.

In a party bereft of new ideas, the only intellectually stimulating candidate was Ron Paul. In party that lacked the passionate support that the Democrats showed Hilary Clinton or Barak Obama, the only GOP candidate who had passionate followers was Ron Paul.

Now granted Paulīs vote totals in the primaries were pretty disappointing because for the most part his kind of voters were swamped by traditional Republican voters. But the candidate they supported was swamped himself in the general election no matter how much of a "maverick" he was.

A lot of people lamented the fact that Paul did not carry his campaign all the way to the fall as an independent and truth be told, it would have been fun to see him attacking Obama and McCain for supporting the bailout.

But in the end, 10 percent is 10 percent of the vote in a two-party system (the maximum that Paul would have carried in my view), nothing more nor less. Unless Paul tried to create a new party around his candidacy, an independent vote for him would have been as forgotten in the future as vote for John Anderson was.

Indeed, Paul was right to run in the GOP primaries. It got him TV time in the debates to get his ideas across. It made it easier for him to mobilize a voting base and raise money. It won him new respect from the mainstream media, all of these things he would not have received being an independent candidate no matter how well known.

And it also provided a foot in the door of the party for his supporters.

Now they need to take advantage of it.

When the new House of Representatives begins in January, no major urban area of this country will have a Republican member representing it. There will be no GOP members from New England, the partyīs ancestral heartland and the partyīs representation from the Upper Midwest will be at a low ebb as well.

But these are areas in which Ron Paul supporters can take control of the party because, to be frank, they now are the party or inherit whatīs left of it.

Paulīs message of freedom, less government, End the Fed and no foreign interventionism is perhaps the only one that can sell in these areas and perhaps in some of these districts they can split the Democratic base. At the very least they can maintain the viability of the two-party system in such places.

And no doubt the whole party would appreciate their efforts.

Paul supporters have already taken over several such Congressional Districts and were able to run candidates for the House as well.

Now most of them lost (some Paul endorsed candidates did win), in some cases pretty badly to their Democratic opponents in admittedly Democratic districts.

But we have to keep in mind the GOP allocates delegates to its national convention by Congressional District. Each district gets three delegates.

Even the Democratic ones.

Thatīs a lot of delegates and itīs a lot of power to be wielded by Paul supporters that could very well influence the direction party in the years to come, especially its choice for President. Ideally, the candidates for 2012 will want their support and will tailor their message to support many of Paulīs ideas.

To some that may not sound like much or it just sounds like wishful thinking, But itīs sure is better than the alternative, continued division in non-major party ghettos.

As we saw in this yearīs Presidential election, Paulīs movement was simply too diverse to be left on its own. It quickly divided itself and lost its cohesion and its effectiveness.

And as we saw with the senseless Paul-Bob Barr feud, such divisions benefit no one in the long run, except of course the powers that be.

Ron Paul proved he could get persons of various political stripes to work together for common cause if such persons all believed in a few principals and believed in the man offering them.

Itīs not clear who will pick up that mantle by 2012. But it is clear that it canīt be done if Paul voters are separated by religious beliefs, economic and educational background, race, cultural values, and age.

As writer Harold Meyerson put it so well: "Third parties divide movements."

They have to act as one and the only way they can do this nationally is within the GOP.

Like it or not.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/80494

Truth Warrior
11-14-2008, 07:54 AM
The GOP merely views RPF folks as anarchists. SMALLER GOVERNMENT??? :eek:

Real_CaGeD
11-14-2008, 07:59 AM
How much support did the RP candidates recieve from the Republican party?

That is what I thought.

pacelli
11-14-2008, 08:02 AM
He makes a few compelling points and does a nice job putting it into perspective, but completely neglects the issue of the GOP breaking their own rules to keep us out of their club. How the fuck are we supposed to 'stay the GOP course' when it is clear the GOP only wants to work us, and not work with us.

Real_CaGeD
11-14-2008, 08:07 AM
He makes a few compelling points and does a nice job putting it into perspective, but completely neglects the issue of the GOP breaking their own rules to keep us out of their club. How the fuck are we supposed to 'stay the GOP course' when it is clear the GOP only wants to work us, and not work with us.

We are just dogs to them.

fr33domfightr
11-14-2008, 01:04 PM
Regarding the title of this thread, I think we really need to re-evaluate political parties.

Should they exist just to win elections?

Should they exist and hold true to some party platform, whether they win or lose elections?

Should they be flexible and change with the times, such that their platform changes and they might win or lose elections, but that's OK because that's not what the majority wanted?

I see the current (big 2) parties as just wanting to stay in power, period, whether its good for the country or not.

Should we (RP supporters), as holding a conservative agenda, try to move into the GOP and influence their agenda, hoping to win elections with a conservative platform? Or should we ignore the GOP and just let them die a slow death, while we move on and create our own party with a conservative platform?

Right now, it seems the GOP believes they lost the presidency due to lack of money, plus a bad sales & marketing campaign, that's all, not that their platform is whack.

What are your thoughts on this?


FF

Real_CaGeD
11-14-2008, 01:07 PM
Regarding the title of this thread, I think we really need to re-evaluate political parties.

Should they exist just to win elections?

Should they exist and hold true to some party platform, whether they win or lose elections?

Should they be flexible and change with the times, such that their platform changes and they might win or lose elections, but that's OK because that's not what the majority wanted?

I see the current (big 2) parties as just wanting to stay in power, period, whether its good for the country or not.

Should we (RP supporters), as holding a conservative agenda, try to move into the GOP and influence their agenda, hoping to win elections with a conservative platform? Or should we ignore the GOP and just let them die a slow death, while we move on and create our own party with a conservative platform?

Right now, it seems the GOP believes they lost the presidency due to lack of money, plus a bad sales & marketing campaign, that's all, not that their platform is whack.

What are your thoughts on this?


FF

My thoughts......Today I purchased 40lbs of pinto and rice. "Politics" are over.

LARRY MCDONALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anti Federalist
11-14-2008, 01:07 PM
How much support did the RP candidates recieve from the Republican party?

That is what I thought.

None.

Which is the same that he recieves when running for Congress.

That is, of course, when the GOP isn't sponsoring people to run against him.

speciallyblend
11-14-2008, 01:10 PM
FIRE THE GOP LEADERSHIP, that is now our goal;)

speciallyblend
11-14-2008, 01:12 PM
My thoughts......Today I purchased 40lbs of pinto and rice. "Politics" are over.

LARRY MCDONALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha too funny ,i just got 20lbs of beans and rice and next week ,i hope to stock up on 2 yrs worth of food;)

Real_CaGeD
11-14-2008, 01:15 PM
haha too funny ,i just got 20lbs of beans and rice and next week ,i hope to stock up on 2 yrs worth of food;)

Tell me about your 2 year plan.

I have 3 lbs of various garden seed. Got seed?

I am so convinced that we are under attack from within, I have gained 40 lbs of lard. I am not kidding. Serious.


Ron Paul or DOOM......we has tha DOOM.

slacker921
11-14-2008, 01:23 PM
... my response? The GOP is done. The GOP has shown ZERO indication that the problem is their platform of "Bush Doctrine", war, more war, big government, ignoring the constitution, more war, policing morals, and sucking up to the evangelicals.

To me that means the Paul supporters are totally irrelevant as far as the future of the GOP is concerned, so I have zero incentive to work towards the GOP in any races for 2010 or 2012.

Real_CaGeD
11-14-2008, 01:30 PM
... my response? The GOP is done. The GOP has shown ZERO indication that the problem is their platform of "Bush Doctrine", war, more war, big government, ignoring the constitution, more war, policing morals, and sucking up to the evangelicals.

To me that means the Paul supporters are totally irrelevant as far as the future of the GOP is concerned, so I have zero incentive to work towards the GOP in any races for 2010 or 2012.

Evangelicals..........

Did I tell you my friends that I worship in private?

Our father's God to Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing.
Long may our land be bright,
With freedom's holy light,
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God our King.

Feenix566
11-14-2008, 01:33 PM
How much support did the RP candidates recieve from the Republican party?

That is what I thought.


He makes a few compelling points and does a nice job putting it into perspective, but completely neglects the issue of the GOP breaking their own rules to keep us out of their club. How the fuck are we supposed to 'stay the GOP course' when it is clear the GOP only wants to work us, and not work with us.


We are just dogs to them.


... my response? The GOP is done. The GOP has shown ZERO indication that the problem is their platform of "Bush Doctrine", war, more war, big government, ignoring the constitution, more war, policing morals, and sucking up to the evangelicals.

To me that means the Paul supporters are totally irrelevant as far as the future of the GOP is concerned, so I have zero incentive to work towards the GOP in any races for 2010 or 2012.

Wow.... you guys just don't get it.

This is an OPPORTUNITY, not an obstacle. The GOP is in ruins. This past election proved that the American people are tired of unnecessary foreign wars. They're tired of intrusions into our civil liberties. They're tired of the Bush doctorine. We're looking at a dead major party. The only thing that's gonna revive it is an injection of new ideas. And who's got an injection of new ideas for the GOP? That's right, we do.

So stop bitching and start working. We've got a party to take over.

speciallyblend
11-14-2008, 01:36 PM
Wow.... you guys just don't get it.

This is an OPPORTUNITY, not an obstacle. The GOP is in ruins. This past election proved that the American people are tired of unnecessary foreign wars. They're tired of intrusions into our civil liberties. They're tired of the Bush doctorine. We're looking at a dead major party. The only thing that's gonna revive it is an injection of new ideas. And who's got an injection of new ideas for the GOP? That's right, we do.

So stop bitching and start working. We've got a party to take over.

we could use you in Colorado asap:)

heavenlyboy34
11-14-2008, 01:36 PM
Regarding the title of this thread, I think we really need to re-evaluate political parties.

Should they exist just to win elections?

Should they exist and hold true to some party platform, whether they win or lose elections?

Should they be flexible and change with the times, such that their platform changes and they might win or lose elections, but that's OK because that's not what the majority wanted?

I see the current (big 2) parties as just wanting to stay in power, period, whether its good for the country or not.

Should we (RP supporters), as holding a conservative agenda, try to move into the GOP and influence their agenda, hoping to win elections with a conservative platform? Or should we ignore the GOP and just let them die a slow death, while we move on and create our own party with a conservative platform?

Right now, it seems the GOP believes they lost the presidency due to lack of money, plus a bad sales & marketing campaign, that's all, not that their platform is whack.

What are your thoughts on this?
FF

The platform is totally out of whack! It was re-written by Bush neocons to condone giant gov'ment in the name of "security". That's one of the reasons I left! :mad:

Real_CaGeD
11-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Wow.... you guys just don't get it.

This is an OPPORTUNITY, not an obstacle. The GOP is in ruins. This past election proved that the American people are tired of unnecessary foreign wars. They're tired of intrusions into our civil liberties. They're tired of the Bush doctorine. We're looking at a dead major party. The only thing that's gonna revive it is an injection of new ideas. And who's got an injection of new ideas for the GOP? That's right, we do.

So stop bitching and start working. We've got a party to take over.


Bud, they think they lost because of the MSM. Party funded sites still censor RP.

We are still "lunatics". I am sorry, but if I give up on them that means it is hopeless.

The main thing is that this left movement is not an accident. Listen to Larry McDonald, "this is the hidden agenda of America".

heavenlyboy34
11-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Wow.... you guys just don't get it.

This is an OPPORTUNITY, not an obstacle. The GOP is in ruins. This past election proved that the American people are tired of unnecessary foreign wars. They're tired of intrusions into our civil liberties. They're tired of the Bush doctorine. We're looking at a dead major party. The only thing that's gonna revive it is an injection of new ideas. And who's got an injection of new ideas for the GOP? That's right, we do.

So stop bitching and start working. We've got a party to take over.

Why revive it? Move on! You're better off without gov'ment. :D

pacelli
11-14-2008, 01:39 PM
This past election proved that the American people are tired of unnecessary foreign wars. They're tired of intrusions into our civil liberties. They're tired of the Bush doctorine.

Too bad the American people just voted for 4 more years of unnecessary foreign wars, intrusions into our civil liberties, and the Bush 'doctorine'.

LittleLightShining
11-14-2008, 01:50 PM
Wow.... you guys just don't get it.

This is an OPPORTUNITY, not an obstacle. The GOP is in ruins. This past election proved that the American people are tired of unnecessary foreign wars. They're tired of intrusions into our civil liberties. They're tired of the Bush doctorine. We're looking at a dead major party. The only thing that's gonna revive it is an injection of new ideas. And who's got an injection of new ideas for the GOP? That's right, we do.

So stop bitching and start working. We've got a party to take over.Yes we do.

I just got this email from my county chair:


Our speaker will be Rob Roper giving his insight and comments from town chairs about what went wrong with the election and where we go from here.

Hope to see you there as we need ideas on how to start rebuilding the party.

I can't WAIT! :D:D:D

Andrew-Austin
11-14-2008, 02:00 PM
Political parites should serve Americans, and thus actually listen to them / engage in conversation about their platform.

Its the GOPs decision if they want to "just stick to one platform" regardless of whether it can win them elections or not. Whether they decide to have a malleable political platform, or a solid unchanging one, they should still listen to Americans... Completely ignoring imput, in this case from RP supporters, is stupidly arrogant when they have no reason to be.

I wouldn't be the end of the world to me if the GOP just clung to neocon Bush doctrine and slowly rotted away with it... However I fear the GOP will just put "lipstick on the pig" and once everyone is pissed at the democrats pretend to be a different animal when their really not.


Regarding the title of this thread, I think we really need to re-evaluate political parties.

Should they exist just to win elections?

Should they exist and hold true to some party platform, whether they win or lose elections?

tonesforjonesbones
11-14-2008, 02:00 PM
YES...STOP the protesting and put that energy to better use...we can't go in with a protest , beligerant attitude and expect people to WANT us there. We have to go in and change hearts and minds a little at a time...gain their confidence..and pretty soon, they WILL listen. my local group is already talking Ron Paul principles of Limited government, free markets, fiscal responsibility etc....and they don't even realize it. Remember, RP said it's not HIM it is the MessaGE..and i think they are getting it. We DO have to help convince them to kick out the upper level of the GOP.,...but Ron Paul himself said this:

Q: Do you think the efforts of the libertarian-minded are better spent forming a third party or joining the actual Libertarian Party?

A: I never try to tell people exactly what to do, so that’s up to them. However, I think the fact that I have remained in the Republican Party shows where I stand.

ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS. Dr. Paul is a REPUBLICAN...if you want success..do what he DOES...not necessarily what he SAYS! TONES

wizardwatson
11-14-2008, 02:00 PM
Like it or Not, Ron Paul Republicans have to stay the GOP Course

HA!!!

RP Supporters need to stay the course of freedom and liberty. Two-Party politics needs to die a horrible death.

A plague on both their houses.

OP article is moronic.

tonesforjonesbones
11-14-2008, 02:02 PM
Why do you want to shoot yourself in the foot? tones

literatim
11-14-2008, 02:04 PM
HA!!!

RP Supporters need to stay the course of freedom and liberty. Two-Party politics needs to die a horrible death.

A plague on both their houses.

OP article is moronic.

So how do you propose we end the duopoly?

fr33domfightr
11-14-2008, 02:07 PM
The GOP leadership has been trying to pander to various ethnic groups in the hope of retaining power, all the while actually ignoring anyone near the bottom, the actual voters.

What worries me is when I see those of Hispanic or Cuban ancestry say the GOP should be more centrist. This from groups that would traditionally be conservative. If they believe this, then the Democratic & Republican parties would truly be one party, just as we have been seeing. Proof of the Republican Party wanting to move toward the center coincides with McCain's desire to ignore the conservatives.

I believe groups that want a centrist party haven't really been educated as well as they should be. Much of that blame should be put on the Republican Party, because while they were off doing their own thing (being "top down"), they totally forgot about their base, and the actual grassroots voters. New voters grew up seeing the Party as it had become, and just believed its always been that way, and something they don't like.


FF

slacker921
11-14-2008, 02:08 PM
Yes we do.

I just got this email from my county chair:



I can't WAIT! :D:D:D

My county chair removed me from the county GOP e-mail list when he figured out I supported Ron Paul.

.. read this (http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259).. pay particular attention to slide #21. I just finished reading his book and I highly recommend it to anyone thinking about investing a lot of time on "restoring the GOP".

tonesforjonesbones
11-14-2008, 02:19 PM
I agree with fr 33..and that BIT them in the arse this election...AND they are STILL going down the same path per phone conversation with our state GOP's assistant. She said they are reaching out to democrats...I said STOP doing that! I told her that the GOP can reach out to the democrat minorities but MAINTAIN our platform...don't pander (she got pissed and went silent) ...i told her we should be helping them see that the principles the republican stand on are the BETTER WAY..NOT moving center.. tones

wizardwatson
11-14-2008, 02:19 PM
Why do you want to shoot yourself in the foot? tones

If we want the State to shrink, we must organize and disengage. This idea that we can engage it, then organize, then shrink it from within is a pipe dream. If this is the plan then we're better off giving all power to a single party and letting the State grow out of control and destroy itself.

Anyway, I'm just not into the "use the GOP as a trojan horse" theory which seems to be the prominent action plan. Guess I'm too cynical.

Deborah K
11-14-2008, 02:23 PM
So how do you propose we end the duopoly?

Register as a non-partisan, change the rules in each state regarding closed primaries and abandon completely the party system.

I am not a Ron Paul republican, I am a Ron Paul non-partisan.

tonesforjonesbones
11-14-2008, 02:24 PM
My response:

Q: Do you think the efforts of the libertarian-minded are better spent forming a third party or joining the actual Libertarian Party?

A: I never try to tell people exactly what to do, so that’s up to them. However, I think the fact that I have remained in the Republican Party shows where I stand.

LittleLightShining
11-14-2008, 02:38 PM
My county chair removed me from the county GOP e-mail list when he figured out I supported Ron Paul.

.. read this (http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259).. pay particular attention to slide #21. I just finished reading his book and I highly recommend it to anyone thinking about investing a lot of time on "restoring the GOP".I've been an unabashed RP supporter since I started going to the meetings in March. The VT GOP and the National GOP did themselves a huge disservice by trying to appeal to the center. Here in VT we held onto our moderate GOP governor(Douglas) and very conservative GOP LT Governor(Dubie). Dubie spent about a tenth of the money Douglas did while Douglas had the luxury of running against a Democrat and a Progressive who split the left. Dubie is adamantly pro-life and pro-Biblical marriage.

Like her or not, Palin appealed to the traditional conservatives and reenergized the base. Do we need a Zionist Evangelical to restore the party? Not necessarily. But we need true old-school conservatives. I think it's apparent that people don't want wishy-washy GOP candidates, they want people who walk the walk.

Had the media not done such a number on Ron Paul the committee members themselves would have been much more open to him. I do believe that. So what do we do? We bring the message. We find candidates who believe in the message and we start working today. I'm not trying to change the National GOP in one fell swoop. I'm trying to rebuild the Washington County VT GOP with sound policy.

As for that slide, slacker, it doesn't affect me in any way. I made up my mind a long time ago that I was going to invest the time and energy into the party and that's what I've done and what I intend to do. We have 2 options do something or complain when someone else does it. I like the Solzhenitsyn quote, though. I'll keep that in mind.

wizardwatson
11-14-2008, 02:39 PM
My response:

Q: Do you think the efforts of the libertarian-minded are better spent forming a third party or joining the actual Libertarian Party?

A: I never try to tell people exactly what to do, so that’s up to them. However, I think the fact that I have remained in the Republican Party shows where I stand.

Well this question is framed in respect to what a libertarian-minded persons party affiliation should be to have maximum effect. It doesn't speak to what a libertarian-minded person should do 'in general' to have the greatest impact, and it certainly doesn't address what the so-called 'movement' should do in general with its efforts.

I've also listened to RP and he seems to me to emphasize over and over that the primary thing is the message and education about liberty and freedom, and political action is secondary.

Education about freedom and liberty and the tyranny of the State is primary. In my view spending 10 hours really educating one person would be worth more than spending 10 hours getting 10 people to vote for a Ron Paul Republican. We shouldn't dismiss political action as there may be areas or elections where a good candidate comes along who has a shot, or maybe someone inside can be converted, but primary thing is education.

CapitalistRadical
11-14-2008, 07:51 PM
I really think that abandoning the two-party system is just an excuse for slacking off.

I hear about third parties, I hear about waiting until the nation crashes and burns, I hear about waiting for the GOP to vanish. I look at more than a hundred years of history that says none of these are going to happen. I see more than a hundred years of examples of small dedicated movements penetrating these two parties, bending them various directions.

Most recently we've seen the neoconservatives and the evangelicals take over the GOP. I really don't know why we can't succeed where they did. Except that it might require some of you to get off the Internet and go down and attend a few local party meetings.

We've got Ron Paul on Congress getting media attention he never did before, we have a party that's in disarray, we have an economy that's tanking, and we have the constitution on our side. We have citizens that are receptive to our message in both parties and on the bench. Any refusal to take advantage of this opportune moment is sheer cowardice.

Jbrabble
11-14-2008, 08:05 PM
I really think that abandoning the two-party system is just an excuse for slacking off.

I hear about third parties, I hear about waiting until the nation crashes and burns, I hear about waiting for the GOP to vanish. I look at more than a hundred years of history that says none of these are going to happen. I see more than a hundred years of examples of small dedicated movements penetrating these two parties, bending them various directions.

Most recently we've seen the neoconservatives and the evangelicals take over the GOP. I really don't know why we can't succeed where they did. Except that it might require some of you to get off the Internet and go down and attend a few local party meetings.

We've got Ron Paul on Congress getting media attention he never did before, we have a party that's in disarray, we have an economy that's tanking, and we have the constitution on our side. We have citizens that are receptive to our message in both parties and on the bench. Any refusal to take advantage of this opportune moment is sheer cowardice.

Absolutely. The next 4 years are our window of opportunity. If we fail to change the GOP (and through it present america with a real choice) then we lose not only our prosperity and our liberty, but the most important parts of American history. Everyone needs to get involved, don't just educate yourself, educate others.

LittleLightShining
11-14-2008, 08:07 PM
Absolutely. The next 4 years are our window of opportunity. If we fail to change the GOP (and through it present america a real choice) then we lose not only our prosperity and our liberty, but the most important parts of American history. Everyone needs to get involved, don't just educate yourself, educate others.It has to be the next 2 years. We have to put ourselves and the message in place and show that we will be the boots on the ground that the GOP needs. If we are willing to stay involved and work they will welcome us.

The_Orlonater
11-14-2008, 08:20 PM
YES...STOP the protesting and put that energy to better use...we can't go in with a protest , beligerant attitude and expect people to WANT us there. We have to go in and change hearts and minds a little at a time...gain their confidence..and pretty soon, they WILL listen. my local group is already talking Ron Paul principles of Limited government, free markets, fiscal responsibility etc....and they don't even realize it. Remember, RP said it's not HIM it is the MessaGE..and i think they are getting it. We DO have to help convince them to kick out the upper level of the GOP.,...but Ron Paul himself said this:

Q: Do you think the efforts of the libertarian-minded are better spent forming a third party or joining the actual Libertarian Party?

A: I never try to tell people exactly what to do, so that’s up to them. However, I think the fact that I have remained in the Republican Party shows where I stand.

ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS. Dr. Paul is a REPUBLICAN...if you want success..do what he DOES...not necessarily what he SAYS! TONES


That's why he endorsed the 3rd party candidates and admits that we wants more of them in the Congress. He's remained a Republican because run as a third party is a bitch and he might as well stay as a Republican. Prove me wrong.

Belligerent attitude towards the G.O.P. for the win!