humanic
11-13-2008, 01:19 AM
I had the unfortunately experience of having an instant message conversation with a socialist Obama supporter this evening. Here are some quotes:
ON ECONOMICS
"there is no free market"
"free markets don't exists
"a market exists because of rules
"free markets = corporatism... same exact thing"
"you get rid of all regulations and government and you have corporatism... that's what ron paul wants"
"a freemarket... is what bush and cheney dream of"
"a market cannot exist without a government
"I believe in regulated capitalism"
"I also believe in science. I think our universities should be the highest funded institutions of our society"
"we need to hold capitalism at bay"
ON INDIVIDUALISM AND COLLECTIVISM
"we as humans need to understand that we have to think as a whole"
"humans are a collective species"
"individualism means fuck your neighbor, me first"
ON REPUBLICS
"a republic is a society of elites ruling over peasants"
ON THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT
"The point of government is a pact between the people to pitch in a bit of money to make everyone's lives better, and to decide on an order of things"
ON MONEY
"I think money is always created out of thin air... what makes gold valueable?"
"we don't have fiat money"
"our money is not fiat money"
"fiat means the money is pegged to national production and natural resources"
ON CONSERVATISM VS LIBERALISM
"conservatives believe people are naturally evil inside and that the government, being a collection of people, is evil... liberals believe that individuals are actually good, when they know all the facts. That the people can be trusted with decisions."
ON "FREE" COLLEGE
"Do you think college should be free for people that get 3.0 and up?... how about a 3.25?... that's pretty damn good... it would be paid for by the people that are like, 40"
ON "CHANGE"
"I would love to see an America with only middle class people... no rich, no poor... not matter how smart or "powerful" you are...there would be strati however ...but for the most part it would not span further than (in today's dollars) between 50 - 200k /year"
ON GLOBAL WARMING
"you do believe in global warming, right?... I mean you can recognize real science when you see it... global warming is the product of an increase of greenhouse gasses based on our burning of fossil fuels over the past 150 years"
ON LIBERTARIANISM
"i'm aware of the teachings of Ayn Rand, Alan Greenspan, Globalism, Free trade. that's libetarianism"
"libertarianism is a fantasy... it's an ideal and a false one at that..."
"I think that libertarianism is extremely, and dangerously short sighted and selfish"
ON TAXATION
"if you work for a steel mill you make a wage... that wage should not be taxed. however, the owner of that steel mill should be taxed heavily."
ON WOLRD GOVERNMENT
"as much as it would horrify you, I am a believer in a world government"
ON REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH BEING OK WHEN OBAMA DOES IT:
HIM: and I agree that he punked out on the telecom bill and the bailout
HIM: I think though, on the bailout
HIM: his plan was to give the money to the president, confident that he would be presdient
ME:: and that makes it ok?
HIM: well I think he can use much of the money to help out individual home owners
ON RICH PEOPLE
HIM: I'm against free markets
HIM: I believe in a marketplace with strict regulations
ME:: regulated by whom?
ME:: by you, no doubt
HIM: democracy
...
HIM: informed debate
HIM: graduated taxes
HIM: the exchange of ideas
HIM: in a free press
HIM: not a free market
HIM: free market implies no regulations
HIM: I believe in regulated capitalism
HIM: I also believe in science. I think our universities should be the highest funded institutions of our society
HIM: not our military
ME:: there are regulations: everyone has an inalienable right to life, liberty, and property, and no one can use force or fraud to take those away
HIM: I think people should be paid to learn
ME:: paid by who?
HIM: through taxes from rich people
ME:: how rich?
HIM: over 3.2 million per year
ME: : so you, the social engineer, or you and a "democratic mob", decide who is rich, how much of their own money they get to keep, and what the money that is taken from them ought to be spent on
HIM: wait wait wait
HIM: their own money?
ME: yes
HIM: ok so when William McGuire made $2.7 Billion in one year from United Healthcare
HIM: that was his money
HIM: he earned it.
ME: : did he steal it from anyone?
HIM: yes.
ME: : how?
HIM: first of all, denying claims
ME: : was he contractually obligated to approve the claims?
HIM: after collecting thousands in premiums
HIM: who would have made him make a contract of that sort?
HIM: we have deregulated the health insurance industry
HIM: since Reagan
ME: : well, when people chose to sign up for his health care, they were entering into an agreement. what did that agreement entitle them to? did he violate it?
HIM: ok so what would you propose?
HIM: no health insurance at all?
ME: : well, im asking an honest question
ME: : did he?
HIM: let me ask you this
ME: : if not, then it's his money. if he did, then it's not
HIM: how is it his money?
HIM: he did nothing to earn it
ME: : it was voluntarily given to him
HIM: no
HIM: it was given to company to offset risk
ME: : voluntarily
...
HIM:why should one man be worth 2.78 billion a year?
ON BRAINWASHING
"who could possibly have brainwashed me to be socialist? I've been a brainwashed capitalist my whole life until I was 19 when I learned real history"
ON ECONOMICS
"there is no free market"
"free markets don't exists
"a market exists because of rules
"free markets = corporatism... same exact thing"
"you get rid of all regulations and government and you have corporatism... that's what ron paul wants"
"a freemarket... is what bush and cheney dream of"
"a market cannot exist without a government
"I believe in regulated capitalism"
"I also believe in science. I think our universities should be the highest funded institutions of our society"
"we need to hold capitalism at bay"
ON INDIVIDUALISM AND COLLECTIVISM
"we as humans need to understand that we have to think as a whole"
"humans are a collective species"
"individualism means fuck your neighbor, me first"
ON REPUBLICS
"a republic is a society of elites ruling over peasants"
ON THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT
"The point of government is a pact between the people to pitch in a bit of money to make everyone's lives better, and to decide on an order of things"
ON MONEY
"I think money is always created out of thin air... what makes gold valueable?"
"we don't have fiat money"
"our money is not fiat money"
"fiat means the money is pegged to national production and natural resources"
ON CONSERVATISM VS LIBERALISM
"conservatives believe people are naturally evil inside and that the government, being a collection of people, is evil... liberals believe that individuals are actually good, when they know all the facts. That the people can be trusted with decisions."
ON "FREE" COLLEGE
"Do you think college should be free for people that get 3.0 and up?... how about a 3.25?... that's pretty damn good... it would be paid for by the people that are like, 40"
ON "CHANGE"
"I would love to see an America with only middle class people... no rich, no poor... not matter how smart or "powerful" you are...there would be strati however ...but for the most part it would not span further than (in today's dollars) between 50 - 200k /year"
ON GLOBAL WARMING
"you do believe in global warming, right?... I mean you can recognize real science when you see it... global warming is the product of an increase of greenhouse gasses based on our burning of fossil fuels over the past 150 years"
ON LIBERTARIANISM
"i'm aware of the teachings of Ayn Rand, Alan Greenspan, Globalism, Free trade. that's libetarianism"
"libertarianism is a fantasy... it's an ideal and a false one at that..."
"I think that libertarianism is extremely, and dangerously short sighted and selfish"
ON TAXATION
"if you work for a steel mill you make a wage... that wage should not be taxed. however, the owner of that steel mill should be taxed heavily."
ON WOLRD GOVERNMENT
"as much as it would horrify you, I am a believer in a world government"
ON REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH BEING OK WHEN OBAMA DOES IT:
HIM: and I agree that he punked out on the telecom bill and the bailout
HIM: I think though, on the bailout
HIM: his plan was to give the money to the president, confident that he would be presdient
ME:: and that makes it ok?
HIM: well I think he can use much of the money to help out individual home owners
ON RICH PEOPLE
HIM: I'm against free markets
HIM: I believe in a marketplace with strict regulations
ME:: regulated by whom?
ME:: by you, no doubt
HIM: democracy
...
HIM: informed debate
HIM: graduated taxes
HIM: the exchange of ideas
HIM: in a free press
HIM: not a free market
HIM: free market implies no regulations
HIM: I believe in regulated capitalism
HIM: I also believe in science. I think our universities should be the highest funded institutions of our society
HIM: not our military
ME:: there are regulations: everyone has an inalienable right to life, liberty, and property, and no one can use force or fraud to take those away
HIM: I think people should be paid to learn
ME:: paid by who?
HIM: through taxes from rich people
ME:: how rich?
HIM: over 3.2 million per year
ME: : so you, the social engineer, or you and a "democratic mob", decide who is rich, how much of their own money they get to keep, and what the money that is taken from them ought to be spent on
HIM: wait wait wait
HIM: their own money?
ME: yes
HIM: ok so when William McGuire made $2.7 Billion in one year from United Healthcare
HIM: that was his money
HIM: he earned it.
ME: : did he steal it from anyone?
HIM: yes.
ME: : how?
HIM: first of all, denying claims
ME: : was he contractually obligated to approve the claims?
HIM: after collecting thousands in premiums
HIM: who would have made him make a contract of that sort?
HIM: we have deregulated the health insurance industry
HIM: since Reagan
ME: : well, when people chose to sign up for his health care, they were entering into an agreement. what did that agreement entitle them to? did he violate it?
HIM: ok so what would you propose?
HIM: no health insurance at all?
ME: : well, im asking an honest question
ME: : did he?
HIM: let me ask you this
ME: : if not, then it's his money. if he did, then it's not
HIM: how is it his money?
HIM: he did nothing to earn it
ME: : it was voluntarily given to him
HIM: no
HIM: it was given to company to offset risk
ME: : voluntarily
...
HIM:why should one man be worth 2.78 billion a year?
ON BRAINWASHING
"who could possibly have brainwashed me to be socialist? I've been a brainwashed capitalist my whole life until I was 19 when I learned real history"