PDA

View Full Version : college students are debt slaves (article)




heavenlyboy34
11-12-2008, 02:13 PM
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/106445

College Loan Slavery: Student Debt Is Getting Way Out of Hand

By Nan Mooney, AlterNet. Posted November 12, 2008.

The quest for a college degree is dumping millions of young people deep into a pit of debt from which many will never recover.

Raya Golden thought she was handling college in a responsible way. She didn't apply until she felt ready to dedicate herself to her studies. She spread her schooling across five years so she could work part-time throughout. She checked that her school, the Academy of Art University in San Francisco, had a high post-graduate employment rate. But there were two things she hadn't counted on. The first was the $75,000 in nonsubsidized federal student loans she'd have to take out for tuition and those living expenses her part-time jobs selling hotdogs and making lattes couldn't cover. The second was that she'd graduate into a workforce teetering on the edge of the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

"All of a sudden the work just dried up," says Golden, who got her degree in traditional illustration. "I've sent out probably a hundred resumes from L.A. to Canada, but I haven't had a single response. Experienced people are getting laid off, so why would anyone take a chance on a college grad?"

Shortly after graduating this past January, Golden moved from San Francisco to Los Angeles hoping there would be more work available, only to find hiring freezes at most of the production studios and animation houses. She has looked into fields ranging from children's book publishing to T-shirt design, but no one is hiring. For now, she's doing her best to get by working part-time as a barista at Starbucks and sleeping on a friend's couch.

Golden has taken a three-month hardship deference on her student loans but is well aware that the longer she pushes off payments, the higher the interest will climb. She had hoped to consolidate her loans, which are now at $112,000, but every place she called either no longer handles consolidations or turned down Golden because she was not employed full-time. Since there's no way Golden could possibly make her $1,400-a-month payments on a part-time barista's salary, she brokered a temporarily reduced payment of $650.

"It doesn't even cover the interest," says Golden, "If I pay that for two years I'll wind up owing $150,000. But I can't see that I have any other choice."

As for her career future, Golden admits things look bleak.

"I'll probably have to go back to school to learn computer illustration," she says, acknowledging that this means racking up even more debt with still no guarantee of a job. She is wary given that so far, despite her work ethic and excellent grades, the higher education path hasn't paid off at all.

"My timing couldn't have been worse," she says, voice brimming with frustration. "I'm doing the exact same thing I was doing before I went to school, only now I have all this debt to carry around, too."

The economy these days looks frightening for just about everyone. Who would want to be a retiree with little to no earning potential, or a young family grappling with mortgage and child care payments while facing the possibility, or reality, of job loss? But imagine trying to enter the labor force right now, making career choices that could affect your entire earning future. How are college graduates supposed to juggle student loan payments with the realities of an imploding job market and family members too caught up in their own financial turmoil to help out? With all the attention focused on failing banks and government bailouts, the very legitimate panic felt by such graduates risks getting lost in the shuffle.

"Most of the recent graduates I hear from are petrified," says Alan Collinge, founder of Student Loan Justice, an organization that fights for student loan reform, and author of an upcoming book about the student loan industry. "They have yet to find real jobs in their field, so they're out there slinging hash to make ends meet. And then their loan payments come due."

Graduates like Golden are right to feel petrified. According to a recent College Board report, about 60 percent of 2007 college graduates had student debt, each taking out an average of $22,700 in loans. Graduates are expected to begin repaying within six months, healthy job market or no. Loans can be deferred, but never erased (unless you die or are permanently disabled). And when those payments do come due, many will face the prospect of paying back not only fixed-rate federal loans but also high-interest private loans. The private loan industry is now responsible for 24 percent of student lending. Before the economic crisis hit, it was the fastest-growing sector of the student loan industry. And though the $700 billion bailout bill includes provisions to enable the U.S. Treasury to buy troubled assets, including private loans, from student loan providers, it provides no relief for the students who have taken out such high-interest loans.

Collinge sees the proliferation of costly private loans and the abysmal job market as a potentially toxic mix, one that could result in a wave of bad loans echoing what has already happened in the housing industry.

"Attention needs to shift from welfare of the banks to welfare of the students," he offers. "Otherwise, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a dramatic spike in the number of people defaulting on their private loans."

Private loans weigh heavily on Rebecca Gretzinger's financial future. When her $20,000 in government aid wouldn't stretch far enough, she took out $20,000 in private loans from Sallie Mae in order to complete her bachelor's degree. Since graduating two years ago, she has been paying $150 every six months to hold her private loans in forbearance. But come December she'll need to come up with $640 a month in total loan payments -- 40 percent of her monthly income.

"I'm in my mid-twenties, and I'm still living with my parents," she says. "I don't have any resources to fall back on. I am very concerned that my private loans will be put into default once I have to start paying them back. "

Gretzinger works at an insurance company call center, a job that doesn't require a college degree. It's neither well paid -- her salary is based on commission -- nor stable -- she was laid off in April and then rehired in October -- and Gretzinger holds out little hope that she will be able to support herself, and her debt, on what she makes. She has tried searching for better jobs near her family home in Green Bay, Wis., but despite her degree in business administration with a minor in marketing, no one is hiring.

"I don't know what my plans for the future are," she says. "But I realize now that I will never be able to have children or even a house of my own. I went to college to better myself but found myself much, much worse off then I ever could have imagined."

Gretzinger concedes that she's lucky to have a job at all, and she's right. The nation's underemployment rate -- which includes not only the unemployed but also part-time workers who want full-time jobs and jobless workers who want but are no longer seeking full-time employment -- reached 11 percent in September, its highest rate in 19 years. For recent graduates landing in a job market that already contains more than 17 million underemployed, the prospects are indeed depressing.

For those unable to find adequately paying jobs, and there will be plenty, the consequences of defaulting on student loans can be life-altering, ranging from ruined credit reports to garnished wages to liens placed against property and bank accounts. Not even declaring bankruptcy can hold them exempt. In these dicey economic times, an inability to pay could deliver a crippling blow to young people who have barely had a chance to get their feet wet in the working world. Such realities only add to the disillusion many like Golden and Gretzinger are experiencing regarding the nation's investment in their educations and their futures.

"I no longer believe that my job is safe, and there are very few other jobs out there," Gretzinger says. "The rescue plan may help the banks, but it's not going to help me. I believe that it will take years to get this country back on its feet."

It seems all a graduate can do these days is hang on and hope the new administration brings about some kind of economic change that will work in their favor. But for many, hope feels like a pretty tenuous thing.

"I feel like I'm on the Titanic," says Golden. "Who got out first? The rich people. Everyone else was just left to drown."

For years, young people have been banking on the message that acquiring job skills and an education will pave the way to financial security. Instead, for many, the quest for a college degree has only dumped them even deeper into the financial pit. For a country depending on coming generations to get us out of the economic mess we currently find ourselves in, such lack of faith in a brighter future truly is a petrifying prospect.

JeNNiF00F00
11-12-2008, 04:03 PM
I got 1 of my degrees in Graphic Design and Illustration was a minor. This is the EXACT thing I was told when I was trying to find a job in this industry. When I was in school it was the degree guaranteed that you would get a job straight out of college. I graduated right after 9-11 right when the economy started going to shit. When the economy goes down, the advertising business goes down as well as any other position that requires design or illustration because people just feel that they can make due or do it themselves. I too am in major debt due to the loans I accumulated in 8 years. I feel for these people.

mediahasyou
11-12-2008, 08:16 PM
It's not debt slavery because college is optional. :rolleyes:

danberkeley
11-12-2008, 08:44 PM
It's not debt slavery because college is optional. :rolleyes:

not till obama mandates us to go to college :D

JeNNiF00F00
11-13-2008, 12:10 AM
It's not debt slavery because college is optional. :rolleyes:

Yes its optional for some but with my family it was expected. I was also too naive to realize what I was getting into when I was 17-18 years old, and think that it will pay off in the end. Knowing what I know now I never would have taken the route that I did back then.:)

Doktor_Jeep
11-13-2008, 12:30 AM
Yes all those people going into heinous debt to work in a cubicle and be wage slaves.

JeNNiF00F00
11-13-2008, 12:44 AM
Yes all those people going into heinous debt to work in a cubicle and be wage slaves.

Been there done that. Its miserable.

yongrel
11-13-2008, 12:47 AM
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, my debt is a good investment. It may be outrageous and overwhelming, but for my purposes, it's still worth it.

I wouldn't call myself a slave, despite the prospect of graduating with 6 figures of debt.

Cinderella
11-13-2008, 09:42 AM
thats why nursing is the way to go!

heavenlyboy34
11-13-2008, 10:45 AM
thats why nursing is the way to go!

I wish someone had told me all this stuff 8 years ago! :(

JeNNiF00F00
11-13-2008, 12:18 PM
thats why nursing is the way to go!

Until the universal healthcare takes effect. :)

WRellim
11-13-2008, 12:21 PM
The quest for a college degree is dumping millions of young people deep into a pit of debt...


That's what it is designed to do!

Like a fish who willingly bites the bait to be caught on a hook.

People who follow the "standard path" end up deep in debt(s) and have virtually NO CHOICE other than to continue "working for the man" -- in whatever capacity and at whatever wage they can find.

Those who are perpetually in debt ...with a that whole basketful of "payments" (student loans, car loans, furniture loans, clothing loans, wedding ring loans, credit card debt, health insurance co-pays {for all of those ADHD and other prescription drugs}... then mortgages, etc)... are essentially "indentured servants" and CANNOT truly be "independent individuals" in any real sense of the world.

So, the ONLY way people in that situation can see OUT of it... is to look for a "SAVIOR" and they become easy pawns to those who promise them handouts and/or "relief" of any type.

Decisions all become based on FEAR rather than REASON.

And it is EASY to manipulate people whose entire lives are based on FEAR.

Wild Eyes
11-13-2008, 12:25 PM
I truly feel for the people who are drowning in such debt. College is a complete sham. It's supposed to pay off in the end like any investment should, which is why people force themselves into debt even if they can't afford it. Sadly, college is just a status indicator, like a nice car or an expensive cell-phone; it tells people how much money you have. Knowing what I know now, I would have never gone; I'm debt-free but penniless and I graduated into a dead job market - there aren't even any retail or restaurant jobs to scrounge for. To think what I could have done with all that time and money just enfuriates me.

heavenlyboy34
11-13-2008, 12:37 PM
I truly feel for the people who are drowning in such debt. College is a complete sham. It's supposed to pay off in the end like any investment should, which is why people force themselves into debt even if they can't afford it. Sadly, college is just a status indicator, like a nice car or an expensive cell-phone; it tells people how much money you have. Knowing what I know now, I would have never gone; I'm debt-free but penniless and I graduated into a dead job market - there aren't even any retail or restaurant jobs to scrounge for. To think what I could have done with all that time and money just enfuriates me.

I wish I had known you back in 1999 so you could have advised me before I got into this mess. :(

Dr.3D
11-13-2008, 04:36 PM
Wow, I said all this a while back and was told by people on these forums I was wrong and college graduates made oh so much more money over their life times.

I'm still looking around for the money I should have made over mine.

College is a scam and essentially a money mill. They take your money and in the end give you a worthless piece of paper that says you can now work at the job you went to school for.

Who is really making out here? Of course the colleges..... they keep adding more and more requirements as you go along too. 'Jump through the hoops and be a good boy and perhaps we will let you be a part of our system.' Maybe it is best to go to college to be a professor so you can perpetuate the agenda of the money mills.

heavenlyboy34
11-13-2008, 04:39 PM
Wow, I said all this a while back and was told by people on these forums I was wrong and college graduates made oh so much more money over their life times.

I'm still looking around for the money I should have made over mine.

College is a scam and essentially a money mill. They take your money and in the end give you a worthless piece of paper that says you can now work at the job you went to school for.

Who is really making out here? Of course the colleges..... they keep adding more and more requirements as you go along too. 'Jump through the hoops and be a good boy and perhaps we will let you be a part of our system.' Maybe it is best to go to college to be a professor so you can perpetuate the agenda of the money mills.

The states leech off the state colleges too. :p:(

Andrew-Austin
11-13-2008, 07:58 PM
Shit my professor just today ranted for a little bit how useless his degree was... until he finally lucked in to the job he has now.

shuffleproshaq
11-13-2008, 08:01 PM
College = Where stupid people learn to be stupider:

Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGFZADVTaNM

Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPNirnKFzRg

ItsTime
11-13-2008, 08:08 PM
My fiancee's friend just got out of school with 40k in debt. She cant find a job and is now going back to school (more loans) to become a nurse.

WRellim
11-13-2008, 09:15 PM
College = Where stupid people learn to be stupider:

Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPNirnKFzRg

Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGFZADVTaNM


Interesting...

But the pervasive typos, misspellings, and grammar errors kind of ruin the point, don't you think? (Than again, perhaps the person who made it was a recent college graduate.)

tron paul
11-13-2008, 09:32 PM
When an entity loans money to someone they know can't afford to pay it back, it's called predatory lending.

OH, but the SPECIAL exception for EDUCATION. OH OH OH just a little bit of selling vast sums to 18 year old kids you couldn't date with out being called a pedofile.

Just like child support. OH OH OH just a little bit of debtor's prison...it's for a good cause; it's for the children...

Doktor_Jeep
11-14-2008, 02:07 AM
Been there done that. Its miserable.

I didn't, yet still work in the software field. Still hard to get a job though, not because I lack a degree, but because the people who decide if I get the job or not are suckers who got suckered into going to college and becoming debt slaves.


Therefore when someone like me comes along, they don't like it. of course I was a hacker before I became a programmer so beating a system, be it a computer system or an enslavement system, is not new to me.

What was it Thomas Jefferson warned about..... something about people getting ahead only by putting chains on their fellow citizens?


My latest opus magnus is encryption.

www.ravenproject.us

danberkeley
11-14-2008, 02:13 AM
When an entity loans money to someone they know can't afford to pay it back, it's called predatory lending.


When an entity takes out a loan they know they can't afford to pay back, that's called stupidity, unless you get bailed out by the Treasury, of course. :D

emazur
11-15-2008, 12:30 PM
For a magazine that yearly prints a list of "America's Best Colleges", Forbes has a surprisingly good amount of "fuck the system" articles on both college and K-12 education:

http://www.forbes.com/business/forbes/2008/0811/014.html
"The other dirty secret of higher ed is that it is not making society a whole lot more productive. Bryan Caplan, an associate professor of economics at George Mason working on a book entitled The Case Against Education, says that the paper chase on campus is an elaborate form of signaling. Much of what goes on doesn't make people into better workers. It just signals to employers which workers they ought to hire. In other words, a B.A. is like peacock feathers. The fancy feathers on a peacock don't improve its survival; they simply signal to a peahen how strong and healthy the owner must be."

http://www.forbes.com/business/forbes/2008/0901/032.html
"College is not all it's cracked up to be. Dumbed-down courses, flaky majors and grade inflation have conspired to make the letters B.A. close to meaningless. But another problem with today's colleges is more insidious: They are no longer a good place for young people to make the transition from childhood to adulthood. Today's colleges are structured to prolong adolescence, not to midwife maturity."

"The purpose of education is to create in a person the ability to look at the world for himself, to make his own decisions" - James Baldwin

I agree with the above statement (also printed in Forbes). Too bad the reality of what the education system has become advocates that exact opposite.

Cowlesy
11-15-2008, 01:27 PM
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, my debt is a good investment. It may be outrageous and overwhelming, but for my purposes, it's still worth it.

I wouldn't call myself a slave, despite the prospect of graduating with 6 figures of debt.

It will be worth it.

0zzy
11-15-2008, 02:04 PM
isnt too much debt if you go to a regular school i would think. maybe thats just in california. its kinda cheap here. community college 20$ per hour, and if you got to uni its like $3k per semester maybe,

thechitowncubs
11-16-2008, 09:01 PM
Ya, I'm in college going to SIU and am convinced that I could do much more with my time and my parents money.

I am done after this semester and am going to spend my time creating my own curriculum based on my own interests and hopefully my parents will fund my education with books, conference tickets, etc.

My goal is to produce a marketable and sustainable food product to help the average American suburbanite lower their food costs.

danberkeley
11-16-2008, 09:41 PM
isnt too much debt if you go to a regular school i would think. maybe thats just in california. its kinda cheap here. community college 20$ per hour, and if you got to uni its like $3k per semester maybe,

The CCs in California suck for the most part. Santa Barbara City College isnt too bad, lot's of hot weather. :D

silverlinkx2
11-19-2008, 10:03 AM
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, my debt is a good investment. It may be outrageous and overwhelming, but for my purposes, it's still worth it.

I wouldn't call myself a slave, despite the prospect of graduating with 6 figures of debt.

Oh boy. What are you going to school for? How big of your six figures is it going to be?

Let me tell you something, I'm in that situation now.

Here's my story:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=168400

The details of your situation are important obviously but I'd say if you still have a manageable level now you should go somewhere less expensive before it spirals out of control. Unless you are giong to be a doctor or a lawyer or something else starting out with a 6 figure salary, it's going to be pretty difficult to pay these back. We're talking like 1000 bucks a month for 20 years, and that's with interest rates the way they are, and from here, they're going to skyrocket over the next few years.

But yes, college student loans are a scam. Its unfortunate, I really like where I go to school, and I really like the area, but the people running the place are crooks and have raised tuition about 25% because they know they can because of suckers like myself. If I could have done it again, I'd have done it all differently.

SnappleLlama
11-19-2008, 10:08 AM
I'm a perpetual student, so my actual profession is "debt slave."

heavenlyboy34
11-23-2008, 12:43 PM
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/22/20081122studentdebt1122.html


High college tuition in Arizona putting more students in debt

At state's 3 universities, 53% graduate in the red

41 comments (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/22/20081122studentdebt1122.html#comments) by Anne Ryman - Nov. 22, 2008 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
Students at Arizona's three universities are facing rising tuition costs, with more of them taking out loans to meet the increased cost of college.
Arizona State University freshman Hosanna Sheeley, 19, scraped together enough money to cover her first year through a combination of the federal Pell Grant, an ASU scholarship, a private scholarship and student loans.
"I'm pretty much taking it year by year," she said.
More students are finding themselves in similar situations: Even with federal grants, school scholarships and part-time jobs, they often need to take out loans to cover their costs.
Last school year, 53 percent of undergraduate students at Arizona's three universities graduated with debt, up from 47 percent four years earlier. The average debt was around $17,500.
For graduate students, it's even greater.
Four years ago, 36 percent of graduate students had accumulated debt by graduation day. That figure is now nearly 54 percent, with the average graduate student carrying nearly $34,300 in debt.
At the same time, tuition and fees have risen every year at the three state universities and are projected to cross the $6,000 threshold for the first time for the 2009-10 school year.
New, in-state undergraduate students could pay 11 percent more at ASU, or $6,257; nearly 13 percent more at the University of Arizona, or $6,257; and 14 percent more at Northern Arizona University, or $6,153. The Arizona Board of Regents, which oversees the state universities, plan to vote on tuition at its Dec. 4 meeting.
University officials point out that current undergraduate students at ASU and NAU will get some relief. In exchange for a double-digit increase that went into effect this school year, ASU and NAU are proposing a more modest 5 percent increase at ASU and a 3 percent increase at NAU for in-state students who are already enrolled this year.
Officials say they recognize it's tough to be a student in today's economy.
On Friday, ASU President Michael Crow sent an e-mail with a video link to students and faculty, further explaining the rationale behind ASU's proposed tuition increases and inviting students who were experiencing financial challenges to contact the university's financial-aid advisers.
In recent years, all three state universities have funneled more money toward financial aid, which helps reduce the overall price tag that many students pay. In addition, Arizona universities are still well below the national average of $6,585 for public, four-year universities, according to the College Board, an association that tracks tuition costs nationwide.
The economic downturn also has meant cuts to university funding. The state trimmed funding for the schools by $50 million, or 3 percent, earlier this year, and more reductions are anticipated.
UA President Robert Shelton, at a recent tuition meeting, said it's important to maintain quality.
"Given the choice between permanent cuts in academics or an increase in tuition, which students have financial options to offset, we choose the latter," he said.

akihabro
01-03-2009, 02:37 AM
I only went and took college classes in a particular field to show the potential employers I had a formal education. I learned somethings. 2 of the classes I blew through because I read enough on the internet and had the natural skill to figure how things work. I still would like to go to college because I'd like to master a field. I guess I feel an education in a college level class would provide more in depth knowledge. I would prefer to just start the career of my liking and resort to company provided education and personal education. Its a little hard for me to go class everyday and do all the homework. Maybe its old habits. I think I should just look at the text books of the classes I want to take and see if its worth it. I'm glad I never got into the business of debt.

Ozwest
01-03-2009, 02:46 AM
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, my debt is a good investment. It may be outrageous and overwhelming, but for my purposes, it's still worth it.

I wouldn't call myself a slave, despite the prospect of graduating with 6 figures of debt.

I am 50 years old, my father is a prestigious Doctor and Professor.

I did one year of UNI, and spent a summer in Mexico.

The crux of the biscuit is... Never get up yourself, and maintain rough hands.

Ozwest
01-03-2009, 02:55 AM
I only went and took college classes in a particular field to show the potential employers I had a formal education. I learned somethings. 2 of the classes I blew through because I read enough on the internet and had the natural skill to figure how things work. I still would like to go to college because I'd like to master a field. I guess I feel an education in a college level class would provide more in depth knowledge. I would prefer to just start the career of my liking and resort to company provided education and personal education. Its a little hard for me to go class everyday and do all the homework. Maybe its old habits. I think I should just look at the text books of the classes I want to take and see if its worth it. I'm glad I never got into the business of debt.

You don't have the luxury of procrastinating, stuff the homework, and impress your employer.

MrNick
01-03-2009, 10:26 PM
College overall seems like a waste if you're not going for hard science like medicine, or law or something where you really do need training.

Zulf
01-04-2009, 10:20 AM
yea, but then what choice do you have apart from college?

I'm not in dept yet, but i'm considering taking out loans starting fall 2009 semester. I mean really don't like my prospects without atleast a masters, so i dunno. This article and similar ones really make me think whether or not i should go through with taking out loans. But again, what's the alternative?

gaazn
01-04-2009, 12:05 PM
too many college graduates not only inflated the supply, it diluted the value of the degree.

WRellim
01-04-2009, 02:25 PM
I got 1 of my degrees in Graphic Design and Illustration was a minor. This is the EXACT thing I was told when I was trying to find a job in this industry. When I was in school it was the degree guaranteed that you would get a job straight out of college. I graduated right after 9-11 right when the economy started going to shit. When the economy goes down, the advertising business goes down as well as any other position that requires design or illustration because people just feel that they can make due or do it themselves. I too am in major debt due to the loans I accumulated in 8 years. I feel for these people.


Jobs in graphic design and illustration are dependent upon the quality and size if your sample portfolio -- not on a degree.

Its one of the few fields where you can hire on merit and almost instantly tell if someone has talent and/or experience. (BTW, the vast majority have neither. And if you try to "fake" the talent by stealing someone else's work... well that will be revealed rather quickly in your initial work {if your boss has any sense of quality and is paying any attention at all}).

Seriously, if someone told you that you need to have a college degree in GD&I to get a job in the industry... they sold you a bill of goods (an expensive bill of goods). For entry-level people it's a low-wage sweatshop world; if you're GOOD and FAST you can eventually move up to a relatively decent pay. The only possible thing that college *may* provide is contacts that will get you a chance to intern with a couple of swot-spot firms; but once you're in the door, you're on your own.

heavenlyboy34
01-04-2009, 02:33 PM
Jobs in graphic design and illustration are dependent upon the quality and size if your sample portfolio -- not on a degree.

Its one of the few fields where you can hire on merit and almost instantly tell if someone has talent and/or experience. (BTW, the vast majority have neither. And if you try to "fake" the talent by stealing someone else's work... well that will be revealed rather quickly in your initial work {if your boss has any sense of quality and is paying any attention at all}).

Seriously, if someone told you that you need to have a college degree in GD&I to get a job in the industry... they sold you a bill of goods (an expensive bill of goods). For entry-level people it's a low-wage sweatshop world; if you're GOOD and FAST you can eventually move up to a relatively decent pay. The only possible thing that college *may* provide is contacts that will get you a chance to intern with a couple of swot-spot firms; but once you're in the door, you're on your own.

When I began scouring the want ads for a design gig, most of them wanted someone with a college degree. :( I just got a CC(cert of completion), and now I'm looking for real world experience. (pain-in-the-ass difficult)

WRellim
01-04-2009, 05:04 PM
When I began scouring the want ads for a design gig, most of them wanted someone with a college degree. :( I just got a CC(cert of completion), and now I'm looking for real world experience. (pain-in-the-ass difficult)

Classified want ads are written by (or edited by) self-important HR departments. And HR departments think everyone, including the guy who cleans the toilets should have a relevant college degree (obviously a degree in "custodial engineering" for the latter) -- which they then use as a way of "filtering" through the 100 resumes that get sent in -- allowing them to through 90 of them in the trash immediately; that way they can reduce their own workload in checking references, etc.


Your first problem is that you think the way to get a job is by looking through the want ads. (Probably because that is all they taught you in college, right? Guess what... they're 100% wrong; looking through the want ads is the best way to get a minimum wage job, they kind that can be easily outsourced or replaced by immigrant laborers.)

You need to learn how to apply for those job openings BEFORE they put out the want ads. (Hint: this means meeting the "boss" person via "networking" and allows you to bypass the HR department and the whole "resume" filtering process.)

Best piece of advice you'll ever get: Go beg/borrow/steal/buy a copy of "What Color Is Your Parachute?" (http://www.amazon.com/What-Color-Your-Parachute-2008/dp/1580088678) and read it from cover to cover! (Note: You do not really need the latest edition {which is actually from 2006 despite the covers changing every year} -- most of the content doesn't change that much, and older editions, which you can pick up at used bookstores for pennies, will teach you pretty much the same technique; though a copy from 2002 is obviously better than the 1970 edition!)


now I'm looking for real world experience. (pain-in-the-ass difficult)No it isn't.

By real world experience, what you really want/need is to have some "published" work in your portfolio. (And these days "published" doesn't even mean what it used to -- laser printed or inkjet copies are considered valid -- the content, and whether it appears REAL WORLD along with a reference or two from the work will dictate whether it counts).

There are LOTS of places to get this kind of experience -- mainly "volunteer" basis. Just find churches or other local organizations (chamber of commerce, lions club, political party, etc -- if those don't work find OTHER local "clubs" or groups.) that have websites and/or newsletters or flyers -- then volunteer to redesign and/or work as editor or composer for them (yes, work for FREE -- you're looking for "experience" right?)

THEN -- and this is key -- you must do a PROFESSIONAL job of it. (i.e. By that I mean don't fart around being all "artsy" all over the piece -- restrain your overly dramatic side, work within the lines and yet make it nice looking, functional, and pleasing to the eye.)

Since in these days of Desktop publishing and laser printers, everyone THINKS they are a designer/artist, the vast majority of things published look like absolute crap -- so finding some group that needs help should not be a problem.

As an absolute last resort, you can take things that people have already done -- and then recreate/rework them on your own -- again as if you were being paid to do it as a job. (That's easily 1/2 of what professionals end up doing anyway -- fixing crap hacked together mindlessly by other people -- so it's good practice.)

danberkeley
01-04-2009, 05:26 PM
too many college graduates not only inflated the supply, it diluted the value of the degree.

And Obama will make the situation worse by giving free college degrees to everyone.

WRellim
01-04-2009, 05:40 PM
And Obama will make the situation worse by giving free college degrees to everyone.

They won't be free.

Everything has a price... and in this case it will (as it always is with the devil) the price simply be one's soul.

danberkeley
01-04-2009, 05:43 PM
They won't be free.

Everything has a price...

That's besides the point.


and in this case it will (as it always is with the devil) the price simply be one's soul.

No. It will also be the resources that will be diverted to produce to college degrees.

xd9fan
01-29-2009, 05:30 AM
I mmmmm

andrewh817
03-19-2009, 12:57 AM
My older bro is just finishing his degree in sociology at Humboldt State and he's had a rough time supporting himself with part-time work the college is giving him. Needless to say, there are hardly an abundance of career openings for that line of work

asimplegirl
03-19-2009, 06:02 PM
Once again... no debt from college here. :)

heavenlyboy34
03-19-2009, 06:56 PM
Once again... no debt from college here. :)


Good! Obama and the State apparatus will give you the chance to pay for everyone else's debt. ;):eek: