Philosophical argument on what's most important: Ending Fed, IRS, what?

[Bryan]

These posts were split off form the End the Fed thread.

[rightofpeople]

What concerns me about the Federal Reserve is that if we end it now, it's perfect timing for our current corrupt government to set up something else or join a world bank and currency! Just like the want!

See what I mean?

[Bryan]

What concerns me about the Federal Reserve is that if we end it now, it's perfect timing for our current corrupt government to set up something else or join a world bank and currency! Just like the want!

See what I mean?

Totally understand and agree- but it's really like that about everything that "changes"- it opens the door. The key however is education-- End the Fed is just one more good educational tool to wake people up. The key is to teach them about sound money and to be able to do deductive reasoning as to what is good vs. not, so when something worse gets introduced they'll call it out, just like us. Teach them "End the Fed" and they won't know any better.

For me, getting ride of the income tax is much more important but educating on the Fed is high up there too.

[Danke]

For me, getting ride of the income tax is much more important but educating on the Fed is high up there too.

I disagree. Educating people about the income tax is important (ie. how it doesn't apply to most people). The income tax is rather a good idea if you know the truth behind it. Taxing those that receive benefits from doing business with the Federal government. Hence the so-called "return."



But ending the Federal Reserve is important.

[Bryan]

I disagree. Educating people about the income tax is important (ie. how it doesn't apply to most people). The income tax is rather a good idea if you know the truth behind it. Taxing those that receive benefits from doing business with the Federal government. Hence the so-called "return."

Understood-- and debatable. IMO however, trying to explain the separation will information overload too many people- I prefer to stick with a simple message: forced taxation is slavery. Simple and no one has yet had a decent counter-argument against it.

[Danke]

T

Understood-- and debatable. IMO however, trying to explain the separation will information overload too many people- I prefer to stick with a simple message: forced taxation is slavery. Simple and no one has yet had a decent counter-argument against it.



War is bad, so we should do away with the military? Easy to sell to the people 'cause it is a "simple message?"

Yes, forced taxation is slavery. But that doesn't address the voluntary income tax, now does it?

[Bryan]

War is bad, so we should do away with the military? Easy to sell to the people 'cause it is a "simple message?"
If wars are fought for freedom then one should have the freedom to support the war (via their person or treasure) or not, no?


Yes, forced taxation is slavery.
See, an easy sell. :) :D



But that doesn't address the voluntary income tax, now does it?
Try not paying your taxes- we'll see how "voluntary" it is. :)

Peace. :)

[Danke]

If wars are fought for freedom then one should have the freedom to support the war (via their person or treasure) or not, no?



Didn't really address the question, did ya? Try convincing others you don't support having a military.




Try not paying your taxes- we'll see how "voluntary" it is. :)

Peace. :)

Key there is "your taxes."

Pay what you owe, not a dime more.

The income tax is indeed voluntary, it is the activity that is tax, do not participate (voluntarily) in that activity and no tax.

[Bryan]

Didn't really address the question, did ya? Try convincing others you don't support having a military.
I didn't say that, but that is a general wrong assumption. To say that would mean that one does not respect others freedom to self-organize for military purposes, and that could make you a security threat. I just don't support forcing others to support someone elses military (would could likely be used against them).



Pay what you owe, not a dime more.
By all moral and ethical standards that I have seen, I don't owe anyone anything-- yet the IRS will still come after me.

[Danke]

I didn't say that, but that is a general wrong assumption. To say that would mean that one does not respect others freedom to self-organize for military purposes, and that could make you a security threat. I just don't support forcing others to support someone elses military (would could likely be used against them).

Yes you did. Remember, you want to keep the message "simple" even though it has no basis in fact or law.




By all moral and ethical standards that I have seen, I don't owe anyone anything-- yet the IRS will still come after me.

Moral and Ethical standards. Nice. Just like the example I gave with the military that you failed to see the connection to your fallacious position.

[Bryan]

Yes you did.
With what words? Provide a quote please.


Remember, you want to keep the message "simple" even though it has no basis in fact or law.
The law has no relevance to what is right or wrong, to what is true or false. As for "fact", in the manner of "forced taxation is slavery"- didn't we already agree? Still, for sure, the "fact" has everything to do with the semantics of the statement, how do we defined "forced", how do we defined "taxation", how do we define "slavery"-- it all depends upon what the definition of "is" is (as Bill Clinton would say :)). But that's the problem with any argument, the more complex it is, the more you can get sucked into a word war tar pit. This is part of why I prefer to keep things simple.


Moral and Ethical standards. Nice.
OK, what is the justification that I owe someone that I've made no deals with or have done no harm something? Historically there has been moral or ethical justifications for these.


Just like the example I gave with the military that you failed to see the connection to your fallacious position.
Please explain further, I'm not getting your point nor have I seen a proof as to how any of my positions are "fallacious"- and a proof should be possible to lay that claim. :)

Cheers!

[trey4sports]

ending the Fed is my biggest issue. #2 is probably ending the drug war