Should the GOP be forgiven for excluding Ron Paul ?

[JohnJay]

Just like that - we should just forgive the neo-cons and war-mongers
who cut us off at caucuses and county and state conventions -
as well as at the national convention ?

By excluding the US Constitution from their principles - so then
shall the GOP expect the people to exclude the Republican Party from office forever.

[Lucille]

Have they asked for forgiveness?

[Truth Warrior]

No!

[SnappleLlama]

Why should they be forgiven?

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

No. As per usual, their obsession with staying in Iraq for all eternity is making their "soul searching" a big joke. They just think they need a change of electoral tactics to win again, not any change at all in their philosophy. They will continue to go right down the toilet unless we succeed in taking them over or the Democrats are in so long that people just get tired of them.

[aravoth]

they can either beg for Ron Paul's forgiveness, tell every one of his supporters that they are sorry, swallow their pride, and adopt Ron Paul's platform, or, we can continue this vote splitting bullshit to it's final stupidity.

:bunchies:

[slacker921]

No. And I'll continue to work to defeat them as long as they stick to the neoconservative agenda.

[zach]

There's no need to forgive them when they don't want to listen.

If they actually adhere to the original policies that Dr. Paul has brought to the table, then we'll talk.

[tremendoustie]

Just like that - we should just forgive the neo-cons and war-mongers
who cut us off at caucuses and county and state conventions -
as well as at the national convention ?

By excluding the US Constitution from their principles - so then
shall the GOP expect the people to exclude the Republican Party from office forever.

Forgiveness is meaningless if they're not planning to change their behavior or policy. If they did decide to return to their roots and support liberty and small government, we would be fools not to help them accomplish it (and I'm sure we all will). But, if they're going to continue to support huge government, foreign interventionism, more debt, and fewer civil liberties, it doesn't matter whether we forgive them or not, they're worthless political hacks who should be defeated.

[rockjoa]

Yes, we could use all the help we can get, so we should extend the arm of friendship to them. Unless they want to remain a loss leader for emulated democracy, they need us and to return to their roots.

Now is not the time to play the blame game, now is the time to defend the constitution. If the GOP refuses to help us, then so be it.

[Lucille]

[Wrong thread! Never mind.]

[JohnJay]

Yes, we could use all the help we can get, so we should extend the arm of friendship to them. Unless they want to remain a loss leader for emulated democracy, they need us and to return to their roots.

Now is not the time to play the blame game, now is the time to defend the constitution. If the GOP refuses to help us, then so be it.

I'd think a new party - perhaps with some very Republican ideals -
but nonetheless without the stigma that is definitely associated with the currnet version,
is in due order.

like a New "Old Republican" Party -
the Old Republican Party - that ain't half bad, considereing RP's age (hehe)

[Kludge]

GOP =/= GOPers.

Can't forgive a collective.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Just like that - we should just forgive the neo-cons and war-mongers
who cut us off at caucuses and county and state conventions -
as well as at the national convention ?

By excluding the US Constitution from their principles - so then
shall the GOP expect the people to exclude the Republican Party from office forever.

The House GOP party just excluded him out of the SECRET MEETING in VA to select the new republicans for the house. The GOP/RNC went as far to even keep the meeting secret.

RP should be in John Boehner's positon (#1 republican) in the house.

The GOP/RNC continues their SCUMMY, SLEAZEY, NEOCON, operations... The Skull n Bones House clowns need to go, as well as the OLD, STALE, DUSTY, group and leaders in the RNC. The RNC ran a PITFUL campaign and operations.

NO to GOP... NO to the RNC!

Both are NOT Republicans, but some mutated toxis foul group that seem to represent the Corporate Dictorial policy.

NO THANX!

[JohnJay]

The House GOP party just excluded him out of the SECRET MEETING in VA to select the new republicans for the house. The GOP/RNC went as far to even keep the meeting secret.

RP should be in John Boehner's positon (#1 republican) in the house.

The GOP/RNC continues their SCUMMY, SLEAZEY, NEOCON, operations... The Skull n Bones House clowns need to go, as well as the OLD, STALE, DUSTY, group and leaders in the RNC. The RNC ran a PITFUL campaign and operations.

NO to GOP... NO to the RNC!

Both are NOT Republicans, but some mutated toxis foul group that seem to represent the Corporate Dictorial policy.

NO THANX!

Well thanks for the info - spread it around, too.

It is now the time to dismantle the RNC.

[dr. hfn]

fuck no! All we need is for the debates to be open and we can win!

[Athan]

The House GOP party just excluded him out of the SECRET MEETING in VA to select the new republicans for the house. The GOP/RNC went as far to even keep the meeting secret.

RP should be in John Boehner's positon (#1 republican) in the house.

The GOP/RNC continues their SCUMMY, SLEAZEY, NEOCON, operations... The Skull n Bones House clowns need to go, as well as the OLD, STALE, DUSTY, group and leaders in the RNC. The RNC ran a PITFUL campaign and operations.

NO to GOP... NO to the RNC!

Both are NOT Republicans, but some mutated toxis foul group that seem to represent the Corporate Dictorial policy.

NO THANX!

I think you just killed this thread with an answer.

[Oyate]

Forgiven? Perhaps. Forgotten? No way. They can expect precisely the treatment they gave Dr. Paul from me.

They can expect the same treatment their hired thugs gave us on convention floors.

[scandinaviany3]

they need to wake up say sorry and start promoting some stuff we believe in like anti bailout and anti fed, pro hybrid currency ideas or forget it

[ihsv]

When they make a formal, public apology to RP for what they did, and ask forgiveness, I'll think about it.

[Original_Intent]

they can either beg for Ron Paul's forgiveness, tell every one of his supporters that they are sorry, swallow their pride, and adopt Ron Paul's platform, or, we can continue this vote splitting bullshit to it's final stupidity.

:bunchies:

You forgot "bend over, stick their heads between their legs, and kiss their own ass." (BRAVEHEART QUOTE FTW)

[jsu718]

They do things like this and then wonder why they are losing power?

[FindLiberty]

Should the GOP be forgiven for excluding Ron Paul ?

no - ...needs an oil change and new Liberty filter

[ValidusCustodiae]

Only if they buy him and all of us a herd of these.

:bunchies:

[Cosmo BG]

Well, I wrote in Dr Paul's name this last election, and was a registered "non-affiliate" at that time.

After looking at that ridiculous "Rebuild the Party" web site, I decided to re-register as a Republican.

Yes, there are still plenty of endless war/corporate welfare/"what's-the-Constitution?" die-hards, but the Ron Paul supporters are obviously still making their voices heard, and drowning out the other folks.

The bitter irony is that their stated objective with the site is to accomplish everything that Dr Paul's campaign already accomplished this season: appeal to young voters, build a grassroots base, better web activism, etc.

Unfortunately, they still seem to think they can accomplish this without actually adhering to a traditional, Constitutional conservative platform. I got news for 'em: Obama didn't just win because of the internet. Ideas matter. Dr Paul was the only candidate who could've beat Obama.

Anyhow, the GOP as a demographic keeps getting older; if all us young rebellious Paulsters get in line now, we will eventually take the party...and I was one of the most vocal "I'll never register with a major party, it's third-party or independent all the way, et al" upstarts. The bottom line is your affiliation just shouldn't matter, including if you ARE registered with a major party. We can change that by focusing on ideas instead of labels.

[klamath]

Seems like an awful collective thread. I have been Republican all my life, a California delegate for RP, Campaigned for RP, but If people want to collectively bash me I say it is you people that need to go to hell.

[LibertyEagle]

The House GOP party just excluded him out of the SECRET MEETING in VA to select the new republicans for the house. The GOP/RNC went as far to even keep the meeting secret.



Of course they did. That should not have been a surprise to anyone. Those at the top are the asshats we're trying to get tossed out.

[LibertyEagle]

Just like that - we should just forgive the neo-cons and war-mongers
who cut us off at caucuses and county and state conventions -
as well as at the national convention ?

By excluding the US Constitution from their principles - so then
shall the GOP expect the people to exclude the Republican Party from office forever.

It has nothing to do with forgiving them. It has to do with achieving our goal. To do that, we need to take over one of the major parties, since it is only they who are allowed in the debates. Since the GOP at one time, was the party of small government and they are weak right now, it makes sense that we target them.

We can sit here and have temper tantrums about how badly they treated us, OR WE BECOME THE PARTY. The neoconservatives walked in and took over the party and we can help them walk on out. There has never been a time as good as this one to take over the party from the ground floor on up. If we do that, WE WILL BE THE LEADERS. Or, we can sit here on our asses and belly ache about how terrible it all is.

The choice is ours.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I deal with a LOT of grassroots republicans and to be honest the ONLY beef they have with Ron Paul is they think he is an isolationist. That is the answer I get every time. These folks have been so brainwashed by Fox news that the muslims are the boogyman...they can't even think rationally. They are GOOD hearted patriots..they are not neo cons...they don't even know what a neo con is! They , themselves, don't understand the term. The Neo con "intellectuals' at the TOP of the party are who we need to get rid of...they are the neo cons...the grassroots are Constitution loving, patriotic, Founding Father loving.traditional good folks. It is up to us to defend THEM from the asshats at the top who have taken over the GOP by GEntly reminding them about the constitution ..and how the bastards at the top of government are taking us down the path to tyranny. We can Do this. They think Ron Paul is a kook because oreilly and hannity said so. how do we get thier noses out of Fox news??? Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

I have to add...in the larger cities, such as Tampa, miami and orlando...those GOP leaders are ALSO asshats...they are crooked! We have to get the majority of the grassroots who are active on our side..work from the bottom incognito. i guess we will probably have to not mention Ron Paul...but continue to talk about his principles...because as soon as those party leaders hear his name...we'll be out of there. We will have to fly UNDER the radar and take the Ron Paul bumper stickers off the car etc..but still preach the Ron Paul doctirne. Hate it, but to win , it has to be done. Tones

[ArrestPoliticians]

I deal with a LOT of grassroots republicans and to be honest the ONLY beef they have with Ron Paul is they think he is an isolationist. That is the answer I get every time. These folks have been so brainwashed by Fox news that the muslims are the boogyman...they can't even think rationally. They are GOOD hearted patriots..they are not neo cons...they don't even know what a neo con is! They , themselves, don't understand the term. The Neo con "intellectuals' at the TOP of the party are who we need to get rid of...they are the neo cons...the grassroots are Constitution loving, patriotic, Founding Father loving.traditional good folks. It is up to us to defend THEM from the asshats at the top who have taken over the GOP by GEntly reminding them about the constitution ..and how the bastards at the top of government are taking us down the path to tyranny. We can Do this. They think Ron Paul is a kook because oreilly and hannity said so. how do we get thier noses out of Fox news??? Tones

I agree with this, and have had the same experience. Tones.

[JohnJay]

It has nothing to do with forgiving them. It has to do with achieving our goal. To do that, we need to take over one of the major parties, since it is only they who are allowed in the debates. Since the GOP at one time, was the party of small government and they are weak right now, it makes sense that we target them.

We can sit here and have temper tantrums about how badly they treated us, OR WE BECOME THE PARTY. The neoconservatives walked in and took over the party and we can help them walk on out. There has never been a time as good as this one to take over the party from the ground floor on up. If we do that, WE WILL BE THE LEADERS. Or, we can sit here on our asses and belly ache about how terrible it all is.

The choice is ours.

Forgiving them in the sense that we just turn our heads at what was done,
and then turn around and go right back in giving them our input and begging to be part of the Republican Party.

That is what the Republican Liberty Caucus tries - to be a wing of and still part of the GOP.
Maybe that is not the best idea, after the lessons learned over the past 18 months.
No temper tantrums, but derfinitely giving up on fruitlessly trying to become the Republican Party.

I don't think the neo-cons will retreat from their takeover of the Republican Party -
they are so hell-bent on excluding youth and energy, they should be the ones to just die off a slow
- if not a quick - death, it may be wasted energy to try to revive the Grand Old Party and better to just start fresh anew.

Call it the Ron Paul Party for all I care . . .
built on constitutionalist, libertarian, and true republican principles like non-interventionism.
GOP goons abused the term isolationist to describe us as well - we're quite the opposite really
as the term isolationist refers to trade policy.

"When goods don't cross borders, soldiers will." ~Fredric Bastiat, French economist/philosopher

[tonesforjonesbones]

Forget third parties...you see they go nowhere. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

The principles that are MOST important at this time are Limited government, Constitution, Sound Money, Free Markets, non interventionism, The Fed/iRs. i would forget the small stuff until we can get the GOP back to these basic principles.

Please forget these:
gay marriage
atheism
hate for Christians
Legalizing drugs (some might be ok with the medical marijuana issue)
gambling
prostitution
The addictions.
That will not fly and if you push these things withing the gop ...eh..out the door you'll go. Tones

[JohnJay]

[QUOTE=tonesforjonesbones;1816440]Forget third parties...you see they go nowhere. Tones[/
QUOTE]

[JohnJay]

Forget third parties...you see they go nowhere. Tones

Not a third party -
but rather a new second party as the GOP dies off for excluding true republican ideals.

[tonesforjonesbones]

See my post above. tones

[Cosmo BG]

Political re-alignments don't happen overnight...the GOP is long overdue for one and their wake-up call came less than one week ago, on November 4. Just because the Liberty Caucus didn't accomplish all its goals in one season is no reason to take our marbles and go home.

[qh4dotcom]

Why should they be forgiven?

To give them an incentive to listen to RP and adhere to the Constitution.

[LABELtheTRAITOR]

i, personally, am DONE tip-toeing around the GOP... my wife and i were elected (with 2 votes each, mind you...) to the County Republican Committee... went to a couple of meetings and these people are far too stuck in their ways to change (at least in our area) i can no longer "go along" as a means to an end... i think being something you are not to try and get these people to "see the light" is just as bad, if not worse, then some of the shit they do in the name of "furthering" their agenda...

so, no, forgiveness for these people is not in my heart... they make me sick.

[tpreitzel]

It's not a matter of forgiveness of the party. It's a matter of infiltration of the party..

[MikeStanart]

It's not a matter of forgiveness of the party. It's a matter of infiltration of the party..

I completely agree!

[satchelmcqueen]

Just like that - we should just forgive the neo-cons and war-mongers
who cut us off at caucuses and county and state conventions -
as well as at the national convention ?

By excluding the US Constitution from their principles - so then
shall the GOP expect the people to exclude the Republican Party from office forever.

its not the party its the man that carries the message of truth and freedom. if the person running is a Dem but a true honest man like Ron Paul, then vote for him. If hes a Rep and honest, vote for him.

The "party" system is a sham anyway just to screw with things and mess with peoples heads over being loyal. Be loyal to the Constitution and you will never be wrong.:bunchies:

[Theocrat]

its not the party its the man that carries the message of truth and freedom. if the person running is a Dem but a true honest man like Ron Paul, then vote for him. If hes a Rep and honest, vote for him.

The "party" system is a sham anyway just to screw with things and mess with peoples heads over being loyal. Be loyal to the Constitution and you will never be wrong.:bunchies:

The GOP is not loyal to the Constitution, therefore, none of its candidates (with the exception of Congressman Paul) will honor his oath to protect and defend it against domestic and foreign enemies. I can not support liars in office. The only party which actually honors and understands our Constitution is the Constitution Party. I can forgive the Republican Party if they show any signs of repentance, but I still will not try to infiltrate that rotting and stinking corpse of an organization.

[CapitalistRadical]

i, personally, am DONE tip-toeing around the GOP... my wife and i were elected (with 2 votes each, mind you...) to the County Republican Committee... went to a couple of meetings and these people are far too stuck in their ways to change (at least in our area) i can no longer "go along" as a means to an end... i think being something you are not to try and get these people to "see the light" is just as bad, if not worse, then some of the shit they do in the name of "furthering" their agenda...

so, no, forgiveness for these people is not in my heart... they make me sick.

Instead of surrendering, you should post here and call for reinforcements. We are here to fight!

[LABELtheTRAITOR]

Instead of surrendering, you should post here and call for reinforcements. We are here to fight!
oh, I'm here to fight, but not for the ideals of the GOP! why wouldn't we concentrate on getting the VERY small amount of Ron Paul Republicans in the GOP to come over and strengthen the LP?

[LibertyEagle]

Forgiving them in the sense that we just turn our heads at what was done,
and then turn around and go right back in giving them our input and begging to be part of the Republican Party.

That is what the Republican Liberty Caucus tries - to be a wing of and still part of the GOP.
Maybe that is not the best idea, after the lessons learned over the past 18 months.
No temper tantrums, but derfinitely giving up on fruitlessly trying to become the Republican Party.

I don't think the neo-cons will retreat from their takeover of the Republican Party -
they are so hell-bent on excluding youth and energy, they should be the ones to just die off a slow
- if not a quick - death, it may be wasted energy to try to revive the Grand Old Party and better to just start fresh anew.

Call it the Ron Paul Party for all I care . . .
built on constitutionalist, libertarian, and true republican principles like non-interventionism.
GOP goons abused the term isolationist to describe us as well - we're quite the opposite really
as the term isolationist refers to trade policy.



Why beg? You don't have to kiss anyone ass to become a member of the Republican Party and become active in your local GOP.

No, the neocons will not leave easily. Is this a big surprise? None of what we have bit off in this movement is easy. We are trying to turn around what TPTB have been putting in place since at least 1913. Did you honestly expect for us to be able to walk right in and win the Presidency. C'mon now.....

Third parties are not the answer right now. I wish they were. But, they are shut out.

[LibertyEagle]

oh, I'm here to fight, but not for the ideals of the GOP! why wouldn't we concentrate on getting the VERY small amount of Ron Paul Republicans in the GOP to come over and strengthen the LP?

We are not fighting for the ideals of the GOP. Political parties are just tools used to achieve our goals.

If we get active in our local and state GOP organizations, WE will be able to reset the ideals. I don't know how old you are, but the GOP used to have a very good platform. That is, before the neocons were allowed to walk in and take everything over.

The LP is a 3rd party. It is not allowed in debates. Their candidate gets no air time. Either we take over one of the major parties, or we are going to be singing this same sad song from the sidelines every 2 years.

[LibertyEagle]

Not a third party -
but rather a new second party as the GOP dies off for excluding true republican ideals.

Only the Democratic and Republican Party are allowed in the debates. End of story.