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Sheepdog11
11-07-2008, 11:40 PM
I think one thing that will take us far is the ability to criticize the problems of the coming presidency's agenda in an organized, accessible fashion... and what better way than to create an "annotated" version of Obama's change.gov website which lists the problems/falsities with the site and its plans?

Called "annotatedchange.com" or something like that, it would be a way to show how the policies sold to us through clever, appealing word choice are in fact not changing anything about the growing, power-hungry government we've been force-fed.


Points could include issues such as Obama's plan for the economy, including the "$50 billion to bail out state government" plan, and have annotation or additions describing why in a historical context, government intervention has been a bad thing for the economy and will only cause further problems.

I personally don't have the money or programming means at the moment to start a project such as this, but I'd like to throw the idea out there.

Let me know what you think.

EDIT: Thanks to Bryan for creating a separate forum for the project: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=116

Bryan
11-08-2008, 12:42 AM
I think it's a great idea, I'd contribute to the writing.

Maybe start off with various writing and research parts and then work on packaging it up pretty for a web site.

My $0.02.

rational thinker
11-08-2008, 12:52 AM
Sounds great!

Sheepdog11
11-08-2008, 01:02 PM
It would be especially helpful to get the contribution of qualified people, aka economists, politicians, etc. It would boost much-needed credibility.

If not, we would at least need to link to qualified sources that agree with the criticism... and also historical facts.

Danke
11-08-2008, 01:13 PM
What a fantastic idea.

mmink15
11-08-2008, 01:39 PM
Great idea- where do we start submitting entries?

Sheepdog11
11-08-2008, 11:37 PM
Great idea- where do we start submitting entries?

I don't have the money or knowledge to start a domain, I was just putting out the idea for someone who could.

Until then, I'd suggest just using this thread to post entries, so they're all organized in a spot if the site does go up.

mediahasyou
11-08-2008, 11:44 PM
Mocking government sites is treason.

RonPaulVolunteer
11-08-2008, 11:49 PM
Great idea.

Sheepdog11
11-08-2008, 11:51 PM
Mocking government sites is treason.

What is the full wording of that law? Is it just imitating gov websites (which I could understand) or is it the criticism of them as well?

Obviously this wouldn't be a .gov site, and would be openly and easily understood to be a criticism, NOT an imitation.

Bryan
11-08-2008, 11:56 PM
I don't have the money or knowledge to start a domain, I was just putting out the idea for someone who could.

Until then, I'd suggest just using this thread to post entries, so they're all organized in a spot if the site does go up.

OK, I just registered UnconstitutionalChange.com :)

We'll create a sub-forum for this project. It should be good. :)

Bryan
11-08-2008, 11:57 PM
What is the full wording of that law? Is it just imitating gov websites (which I could understand) or is it the criticism of them as well?

Obviously this wouldn't be a .gov site, and would be openly and easily understood to be a criticism, NOT an imitation.
I think he was being sarcastic, for now. :)

literatim
11-09-2008, 12:18 AM
OK, I just registered UnconstitutionalChange.com :)

We'll create a sub-forum for this project. It should be good. :)

I think annotatedchange.com would be better. If not for shorter length, but because it would probably get more readers with a more general name.

Sheepdog11
11-09-2008, 12:21 AM
I think annotatedchange.com would be better. If not for shorter length, but because it would probably get more readers with a more general name.

Yeah, I picked AnnotatedChange because of its meaning.

"Unconstitutional" is only a single issue, "Annotated" is just a more broad criticism.

Seems more catchy as well.

But really glad to see you've taken initiative!

Bryan
11-09-2008, 12:38 AM
Well I'm certainly open to what works, but what I like about Unconstitutional Change is that the Constitution IS the issue. We're not just criticizing, we saying it's illegal and he's violating his soon-to-be oath. A lot else could just be brushed off as sour grapes if it's not done right.

My $0.02.

Sheepdog11
11-09-2008, 12:47 AM
Well I'm certainly open to what works, but what I like about Unconstitutional Change is that the Constitution IS the issue. We're not just criticizing, we saying it's illegal and he's violating his soon-to-be oath. A lot else could just be brushed off as sour grapes if it's not done right.

My $0.02.

I understand that, although I still think Unconstitutional implies too much of a single viewpoint which will push many people away from visiting.

Obviously it can focus heavily ON constitutional issues,

...but most people, especially those who support him, I'd be willing to bet don't give a **** about the constitution, and wouldn't see its importance.

I know many people myself who argue that it is outdated and not at all relevant.

Annotated I think is most accurate, shortest, catchiest and most appealing.

Either way, if it's your domain, it's your choice. Just my suggestion.

Most important part is HAVING the site either way, so I'm really glad you've started it up!

evilfunnystuff
11-09-2008, 12:51 AM
i like both names if i had cash id register annotated change now and mirror it but i made a truck payment today and my ballance is $1.86 lol

Bryan
11-09-2008, 12:57 AM
Well, I agree that "Unconstitutional" is more of a business style than a catchy style. Catchy is good-- but I think there is still something out there that is more catchy, but I have no clue what that is. :)

Any other ideas? Anyone? :)

literatim
11-09-2008, 01:01 AM
Well I'm certainly open to what works, but what I like about Unconstitutional Change is that the Constitution IS the issue. We're not just criticizing, we saying it's illegal and he's violating his soon-to-be oath. A lot else could just be brushed off as sour grapes if it's not done right.

My $0.02.

You don't need to put "constitution" into the name to talk about constitutional issues. The word annotated is a much better description of what the website would do, explaining every change he plans to make in greater detail. While the website would remark how it is unconstitutional, it certainly wouldn't solely do that. Informing someone that by what he says that he means he plans to start a war with Pakistan isn't informing him that such a war is unconstitutional.

an⋅no⋅tat⋅ed
   /ˈænəˌteɪtɪd/ [an-uh-tey-tid]
–adjective
supplied with or containing explanatory notes, textual comments, etc.: an annotated edition of Milton's poetry.


Well, I agree that "Unconstitutional" is more of a business style than a catchy style. Catchy is good-- but I think there is still something out there that is more catchy, but I have no clue what that is. :)

Any other ideas? Anyone? :)

Annotated is a commonly used word with a book that describes the original works in greater detail.

evilfunnystuff
11-09-2008, 01:46 AM
Catchy is good-- but I think there is still something out there that is more catchy, but I have no clue what that is. :)

Any other ideas? Anyone? :)

change interpreted

expounded change

change illustrated

change depicted

interpret change

clarify change

ready for change

Mahkato
11-09-2008, 01:48 AM
Is it just me or did change.gov pull a whole bunch of stuff offline?

Sheepdog11
11-09-2008, 01:50 AM
You don't need to put "constitution" into the name to talk about constitutional issues. The word annotated is a much better description of what the website would do, explaining every change he plans to make in greater detail. While the website would remark how it is unconstitutional, it certainly wouldn't solely do that. Informing someone that by what he says that he means he plans to start a war with Pakistan isn't informing him that such a war is unconstitutional.

an⋅no⋅tat⋅ed
   /ˈænəˌteɪtɪd/ [an-uh-tey-tid]
–adjective
supplied with or containing explanatory notes, textual comments, etc.: an annotated edition of Milton's poetry.



Annotated is a commonly used word with a book that describes the original works in greater detail.

Exactly. I don't think there could be a more perfect word for this project than "annotated".

Sheepdog11
11-09-2008, 01:52 AM
Is it just me or did change.gov pull a whole bunch of stuff offline?

Wow, strange, you're right.

Everything under the "Agenda" section is gone.

...isn't that perfect timing...

evilfunnystuff
11-09-2008, 01:53 AM
Wow, strange, you're right.

Everything under the "Agenda" section is gone.

...isn't that perfect timing...

thats "change" for ya :)

evilfunnystuff
11-09-2008, 01:56 AM
Exactly. I don't think there could be a more perfect word for this project than "annotated".

on one hand i agree on the other dumbin it down a bit could expand the audience and it doesnt hurt to throw some ideas around

also people might switch out annoted and annotated unless they are linked to it as its an easily misspelled word as exemplified in the op and its gonna be even more common for people who dont already know the word

Slist
11-09-2008, 01:57 AM
Make sure every version of the change.gov site is saved. They may modify it in time.

I feel it is important to be able to show how change.gov changed in time :)

evilfunnystuff
11-09-2008, 01:58 AM
Make sure every version of the change.gov site is saved. They may modify it in time.

I feel it is important to be able to show how change.gov changed in time :)

change changed

Sheepdog11
11-09-2008, 03:02 AM
Wow, still down... I would assume maintenance, although with the recent change in the Community Service wording...


...it's kind of creepy that this happens as soon as we decide to start a project criticizing those exact plans.

I'm probably just paranoid... just bad timing.

Kevin_Kennedy
11-09-2008, 06:40 AM
I think this is a great idea. I also think that annotatedchange.com would be better than constitutionalchange.com.

werdd
11-09-2008, 07:27 AM
I think it would be great to keep track of all of the alterations the site will go through. IE, changing required to "setting a goal". Removing source code etc.

Anthony T
11-09-2008, 08:32 AM
This is a great idea. Good work. :)

literatim
11-09-2008, 09:53 AM
I was able to save everything under Agenda from November 7th except for Seniors, HLS, and Ethics. All thanks to Google cache.

Remember, once you put it on the internet, it stays on the internet.

coyote_sprit
11-09-2008, 09:58 AM
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:raAjtM_S_YwJ:change.gov/agenda/homelandsecurity/+change.gov/homeland&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

There's homeland

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:RiB5sL-XgNkJ:change.gov/agenda/seniors/+change.gov/seniors&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a

There's seniors

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:4Hf_GWDPzYgJ:www.change.gov/agenda/ethics/+change.gov/ethics&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

There's ethics

tonesforjonesbones
11-09-2008, 10:01 AM
you could call it www.reversechange.org tones

Bruno
11-09-2008, 10:05 AM
you could call it www.thatsnotchange.org bruno

I think it is a great idea for a site! Lots could be done with it.

Bryan
11-09-2008, 10:08 AM
OK, here is the new sub-forum for the project:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=116

Maybe for a starters we could have one thread for each page and start to make notes. Put the text of the page in the first post.

ShowMeLiberty
11-09-2008, 10:09 AM
What an outstanding idea!

I'd be willing to help with research/writing in small increments (don't want to promise more than I can deliver in a reasonable time).

I also prefer "annotated change" but I have no problem with two domain names directed to the same site.

literatim
11-09-2008, 10:13 AM
Might as well inform people that it's unabridged as well. :)

ShowMeLiberty
11-09-2008, 10:14 AM
WTH?

http://www.change.gov

No suitable nodes are available to serve your request.

??????

NM: it works without the "www".

thomaspaine23
11-09-2008, 10:24 AM
Well,

it looks like they are taking down anything on change.gov that might draw some heat.

"Fortunately" they have not touched the pre-election site:

example:

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/


They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

A. Havnes
11-09-2008, 10:28 AM
Okay, a lot of stuff from Change.gov is missing. Does anybody have a backup of this stuff? Quickly glancing, I can see that "agenda" is completely gone. Will we be doing commentaries on this as well?

thomaspaine23
11-09-2008, 10:34 AM
Okay, a lot of stuff from Change.gov is missing. Does anybody have a backup of this stuff? Quickly glancing, I can see that "agenda" is completely gone. Will we be doing commentaries on this as well?

Still here:

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/

literatim
11-09-2008, 10:35 AM
I found out that I missing family.

Ninja Homer
11-09-2008, 11:14 AM
Great idea!

Domain name doesn't really matter that much. Bryan already bought unconstitutionalchange.com, so right now that's what it is (thanks Bryan!). If somebody wants annotatedchange.com, then buy it and point it to the same place. Having the perfect domain name really only matters these days if you're doing an ad campaign and want people to remember it from a tv or radio commercial, or if you're a company doing branding. In this case, 99.9% of people will find the site by clicking a link, so it just doesn't matter that much.

It looks like google has all the pages cached. So if you google "http://change.gov/agenda/family/" you get this:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=http%3A%2F%2Fchange.gov%2Fagenda%2Ffamily%2F&btnG=Google+Search

Hit the "cached" link, and here's the missing info:
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:d0PtTEUtXtwJ:change.gov/agenda/family/+http://change.gov/agenda/family/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Ninja Homer
11-09-2008, 12:19 PM
OK, here is the new sub-forum for the project:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=116

Maybe for a starters we could have one thread for each page and start to make notes. Put the text of the page in the first post.

I did all of the missing "The Agenda" pages. Well, not really done because they still need somebody to type the text that refutes them, but at least threads are created for all the pages with the text copied into them.

Sheepdog11
11-09-2008, 02:50 PM
Very nice work guys... now we can get down to business.

Bryan
11-09-2008, 02:54 PM
Great idea!

Domain name doesn't really matter that much. Bryan already bought unconstitutionalchange.com, so right now that's what it is (thanks Bryan!). If somebody wants annotatedchange.com, then buy it and point it to the same place. Having the perfect domain name really only matters these days if you're doing an ad campaign and want people to remember it from a tv or radio commercial, or if you're a company doing branding. In this case, 99.9% of people will find the site by clicking a link, so it just doesn't matter that much.

I got both- figure we'll start with annotatedchange and possible add something later for unconstitutionalchange.


Great work on getting this rolling everyone!