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Truth Warrior
11-07-2008, 06:16 AM
Voting is for Slaves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlIFF6sz67s)




National Voter Turnout in Federal Elections: 1960–2008
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html)


"Better a conscious slave than a happy one."

Mesogen
11-07-2008, 07:53 AM
That was awesome. I wish that was a PSA on TV.

and 64% voter turnout * 52% voting for Obama is 33% (not a majority)

Again, the president is picked with a minority of consent.

Truth Warrior
11-07-2008, 10:16 AM
;) Thanks! :)

heavenlyboy34
11-07-2008, 11:27 AM
Great find, TW! Thanks! :D The sheeple should be thanking you too. ;)

Truth Warrior
11-07-2008, 11:30 AM
Great find, TW! Thanks! :D The sheeple should be thanking you too. ;) IF I were a "shepherd", I'd merely require it. :D

RonPaulNewbee
11-07-2008, 11:33 AM
That was awesome. I wish that was a PSA on TV.

and 64% voter turnout * 52% voting for Obama is 33% (not a majority)

Again, the president is picked with a minority of consent.



If you don't vote, your consent is implied.:bunchies:

Truth Warrior
11-07-2008, 11:37 AM
If you don't vote, your consent is implied.
Implied ain't worth the paper it's NOT written on.

If you do vote, your TREASON and slave status is merely and simply confirmed.

RonPaulNewbee
11-07-2008, 11:53 AM
So my vote for Baldwin was treason. Right!:bunchies:

Truth Warrior
11-07-2008, 11:56 AM
So my vote for Baldwin was treason. Right! Who is irrelevant.<IMHO> You're just another "player" in their corrupt, evil, bogus, charade, scam, barbaric racket.

Truth Warrior
11-08-2008, 02:40 PM
bump

ArrestPoliticians
11-08-2008, 03:12 PM
bump

This is a ron paul forum, originally based on the idea of voting for Ron Paul. You are a slave for collaborating with us.

Truth Warrior
11-08-2008, 03:16 PM
This is a ron paul forum, originally based on the idea of voting for Ron Paul. You are a slave for collaborating with us. Nope, merely carrying out my missionary assignment, witnessing and preaching to the heathen barbarians. :D

ArrestPoliticians
11-08-2008, 03:53 PM
Nope, merely carrying out my missionary assignment, witnessing and preaching to the heathen barbarians. :D

lol :bunchies:

Andrew-Austin
11-08-2008, 06:05 PM
Your a slave.

Kludge
11-08-2008, 06:34 PM
Sit in the corner of your cell and mope '12!

As for me, I will be constructing a paper crossbow for 10 years in hopes that it will kill a guard and his keys will miraculously fall close enough to my cell so that I can walk out and be surrounded by 10 more jailers!


The second choice of action is far more entertaining, IMO of course.

Theocrat
11-08-2008, 06:54 PM
TW, voting gives us, the people of these United States, an opportunity to have a voice in who's going to serve us in government. It's the people, not the system itself, that are the problem if they elect evil and corrupt men into office. You have to understand that difference, my friend. You may not like the results, but you're never going to stop the process.

On top of that, voting is just the beginning of how our republic operates, for those being represented must be diligent in holding their elected officials accountable in the laws they pass as well as their private/public conduct. I share your frustration with those who don't understand the issues and simply cast their vote without any deep consideration about the person they're putting into office. It's shameful and even dangerous. However, people can be educated on how to make a more informed decision in their suffrage, and they can even study the principles of how we're supposed to participate in our republican form of government. There is always an opportunity for change.

People are going to continue to vote in our country, whether they are ignorant or intelligent. You may choose not to participate, but just know that you're relinquishing your voice to those who are voting for people who will make decisions that will nonetheless affect you and your loved ones for a long time. I say the wise thing to do is get involved with the system (that can still work if more right-minded people are involved, as our Founders believed), and attempt to cancel out those votes which are contrary to sound principles by casting your own as well as those who share those ideals. Don't be like the gifted player who sits in the stands with a ball in his hand but refuses to play the game because he doesn't agree with all the rules of the game.

Truth Warrior
11-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Your a slave.

Thanks for your typical less than worthless post contribution and new additional OFF TOPIC thread bump.

Truth Warrior
11-08-2008, 07:21 PM
TW, voting gives us, the people of these United States, an opportunity to have a voice in who's going to serve us in government. It's the people, not the system itself, that are the problem if they elect evil and corrupt men into office. You have to understand that difference, my friend. You may not like the results, but you're never going to stop the process.

On top of that, voting is just the beginning of how our republic operates, for those being represented must be diligent in holding their elected officials accountable in the laws they pass as well as their private/public conduct. I share your frustration with those who don't understand the issues and simply cast their vote without any deep consideration about the person they're putting into office. It's shameful and even dangerous. However, people can be educated on how to make a more informed decision in their suffrage, and they can even study the principles of how we're supposed to participate in our republican form of government. There is always an opportunity for change.

People are going to continue to vote in our country, whether they are ignorant or intelligent. You may choose not to participate, but just know that you're relinquishing your voice to those who are voting for people who will make decisions that will nonetheless affect you and your loved ones for a long time. I say the wise thing to do is get involved with the system (that can still work if more right-minded people are involved, as our Founders believed), and attempt to cancel out those votes which are contrary to sound principles by casting your own as well as those who share those ideals. Don't be like the gifted player who sits in the stands with a ball in his hand but refuses to play the game because he doesn't agree with all the rules of the game.

And the votes of the idiots count just EXACTLY the same as your's. And there's tens of MILLIONS of them. :p ;) Enjoy your Romans 13, self delusion. :rolleyes:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1802806&postcount=1 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1802806&postcount=1)


"The system is corrupt, beyond redemption, and is not worthy of my support!"

Theocrat
11-08-2008, 07:31 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1802806&postcount=1 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1802806&postcount=1)

;)

I understand the main idea of that article, but the author still misses the point. He has an elitist perspective of our public officials, whereas I have take a pluralist approach, which is basically the view that elected officials serve the interests of those they are supposed to represent. Either way, politicians' presence in our government is acknowledged through the process of citizens' voting first. Ultimately, those who refuse to vote will still end up losing in the end, and that without any effort on their part.

Truth Warrior
11-08-2008, 07:33 PM
Sit in the corner of your cell and mope '12!

As for me, I will be constructing a paper crossbow for 10 years in hopes that it will kill a guard and his keys will miraculously fall close enough to my cell so that I can walk out and be surrounded by 10 more jailers!


The second choice of action is far more entertaining, IMO of course.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kludge (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kludge)

Truth Warrior
11-08-2008, 07:37 PM
I understand the main idea of that article, but the author still misses the point. He has an elitist perspective of our public officials, whereas I have take a pluralist approach, which is basically the view that elected officials serve the interests of those they are supposed to represent. Either way, politicians' presence in our government is acknowledged through the process of citizens' voting first. Ultimately, those who refuse to vote will still end up losing in the end, and that without any effort on their part.

I'm not sure what planet it is that you are living on. :rolleyes: Mine is called Earth. It's hard to fight an enemy that has an outpost in your mind. ;)

How about if your gang ONLY taxes, tyrannizes and regulates the voters? ;) Problem solved!

:D

Kludge
11-08-2008, 07:42 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kludge (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kludge)

THANKS! :)

It may take a lifetime of work, and probably won't work, but it's better than nothing.

;) :o :cool:

Truth Warrior
11-08-2008, 07:46 PM
THANKS! :)

It may take a lifetime of work, and probably won't work, but it's better than nothing.

;) :o :cool: I'd rather chose something that works. To each his own however. :rolleyes:

CJLauderdale4
11-08-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm not sure what planet it is that you are living on. :rolleyes: Mine is called Earth. It's hard to fight an enemy that has an outpost in your mind. ;)

How about if your gang ONLY taxes, tyrannizes and regulates the voters? ;) Problem solved!

:D

Although I'd like to have the same optiistic perspective Theocrat is attempting to induce (how I once felt before living through 2 complete 2-term R and D administrations and seing no difference), I believe Truth Warrior is right, in that the definition of a "slave" is one that is owned and takes orders from the master.

Between the banking cartel Jefferson warned us about (owned), and the MSM channelling the elitist propaganda (your orders) out of every plastic, black rectangle in every living room in America, doing what was previously a "Civic duty" has been made an act of the mentally enslaved.

Hope that cleared up that unnecessary conflict.....

And I just had to throw the green llama in here too...

:bunchies:

Theocrat
11-08-2008, 08:02 PM
I'm not sure what planet it is that you are living on. :rolleyes: Mine is called Earth. It's hard to fight an enemy that has an outpost in your mind. ;)

How about if your gang ONLY taxes, tyrannizes and regulates the voters? ;) Problem solved!

:D

You're still a "slave" to the system, TW, no matter how you choose to ignore it. As long as you're an American citizen, you are accountable to the State in civil matters. Your fantasy of "voluntaryism" (which I've refuted already in other posts) is just a pipe dream, fundamentally flawed about human nature and quintessentially against God's ordination of civil magistrates in principle. It's your loss because you refuse to do anything positive and rational about it.

Kludge
11-08-2008, 08:06 PM
I'd rather chose something that works. To each his own however. :rolleyes:

What is it that you do which works?

Andrew-Austin
11-08-2008, 10:55 PM
You're still a "slave" to the system, TW, no matter how you choose to ignore it. As long as you're an American citizen, you are accountable to the State in civil matters. Your fantasy of "voluntaryism" (which I've refuted already in other posts) is just a pipe dream, fundamentally flawed about human nature and quintessentially against God's ordination of civil magistrates in principle. It's your loss because you refuse to do anything positive and rational about it.

The basis for your world view is delusional.

:bunchies:

Original_Intent
11-08-2008, 11:05 PM
I'm not sure what planet it is that you are living on. :rolleyes: Mine is called Earth. It's hard to fight an enemy that has an outpost in your mind. ;)

How about if your gang ONLY taxes, tyrannizes and regulates the voters? ;) Problem solved!

:D

Sounds like a great idea - why don't you submit it as a proposition and vote on it?

mediahasyou
11-08-2008, 11:38 PM
Grant No Man the Authority to Make You His Slave
http://www.voluntaryist.com/articles/126a.php

p.s. Don't vote. It only encourages them.

Truth Warrior
11-09-2008, 07:02 AM
Although I'd like to have the same optiistic perspective Theocrat is attempting to induce (how I once felt before living through 2 complete 2-term R and D administrations and seing no difference), I believe Truth Warrior is right, in that the definition of a "slave" is one that is owned and takes orders from the master.

Between the banking cartel Jefferson warned us about (owned), and the MSM channelling the elitist propaganda (your orders) out of every plastic, black rectangle in every living room in America, doing what was previously a "Civic duty" has been made an act of the mentally enslaved.

Hope that cleared up that unnecessary conflict.....

And I just had to throw the green llama in here too...

< snipped >



And I just HAD to snip it. :p

Thanks for your agreement and support. ;) :)

Truth Warrior
11-09-2008, 07:05 AM
Sounds like a great idea - why don't you submit it as a proposition and vote on it? You can submit it, I'll just take a PASS on the voting part.

I think you understand. ;)

Truth Warrior
11-09-2008, 07:23 AM
You're still a "slave" to the system, TW, no matter how you choose to ignore it. As long as you're an American citizen, you are accountable to the State in civil matters. Your fantasy of "voluntaryism" (which I've refuted already in other posts) is just a pipe dream, fundamentally flawed about human nature and quintessentially against God's ordination of civil magistrates in principle. It's your loss because you refuse to do anything positive and rational about it. Yeah, and I'm STILL really pissed about it too. :mad: Better a conscious slave than a happy one. ;)

By whose authority and how? I wouldn't go so far as to BLAME God for this collectivist sociopathic cult, merely created and institutionalized by humans. :p

Silly me, I just keep on thinking that NOT being an enabler and willing supporter of this continued mass psychosis IS both positive AND rational. ;)

"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." -- D. James


Religion and politics are both the very same thing. They are both only, very old and very effective, means to control large masses of people. It has always only been that way, and it always only will be.

The ends do NOT justify the means.

Truth Warrior
11-09-2008, 09:03 AM
What is it that you do which works? The best that I can. day to day, in keeping with my principles. One of the major ones is the NAP. ;)

Truth Warrior
11-09-2008, 09:05 AM
Grant No Man the Authority to Make You His Slave
http://www.voluntaryist.com/articles/126a.php

p.s. Don't vote. It only encourages them. ;) Thanks! :)

Theocrat
11-09-2008, 09:15 AM
Yeah, and I'm STILL really pissed about it too. :mad: Better a conscious slave than a happy one. ;)

By whose authority and how? I wouldn't go so far as to BLAME God for this collectivist sociopathic cult, merely created and institutionalized by humans. :p

Silly me, I just keep on thinking that NOT being an enabler and willing supporter of this continued mass psychosis IS both positive AND rational. ;)

"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." -- D. James


Religion and politics are both the very same thing. They are both only, very old and very effective, means to control large masses of people. It has always only been that way, and it always only will be.

The ends do NOT justify the means.

My friend, what you fail to realize is your own attempts to spread voluntaryistic ideas on these forums is a method of control itself through persuasion. I have no problems with control, for it is necessary for all men to have restraints in some way (due to our sinful natures). The State should not have any more restraint over people than what God prescribes it to have. Voluntaryism allows total and unchecked freedom for men to voluntarily do that which seems right in their own eyes, be it for ill or good. Voluntarism is just the elevator which takes society down to the dungeon of "might makes right." Unpredictable control of the masses is what volutaryism brings, and that's more dangerous than a ballot box, in my opinion.

LibertyEagle
11-09-2008, 10:00 AM
The best that I can. day to day, in keeping with my principles. One of the major ones is the NAP. ;)

Which ones are those?

Submitting and giving up? :p;)


Originally Posted by Truth Warrior
I walk my talk and also submit to the annual extortion by the armed statist thugs, your agents.


Originally Posted by Truth Warrior
If at first you don't succeed, it's often smart and wise to just give up and walk away, there's really no constructive use in continuing making a damned fool of yourself.

mediahasyou
11-09-2008, 10:49 AM
Voting is the illusion of changing the system.

Now can we get real shit done children?

RevolutionSD
11-09-2008, 01:32 PM
Voting is the illusion of changing the system.

Now can we get real shit done children?

I'm completely on board with mediahasyou and truth warrior on voluntaryism.

The idea that we need this fantasy called government to direct our lives is immature and ridiculous, and yes it goes against human nature. Anyone who is for voluntaryism does NOT want to control other people's lives, anyone who is for government is a psychotic control freak (and no it doesn't matter if the majority agree that we need government, they are still batshit crazy.)

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 05:30 AM
My friend, what you fail to realize is your own attempts to spread voluntaryistic ideas on these forums is a method of control itself through persuasion. I have no problems with control, for it is necessary for all men to have restraints in some way (due to our sinful natures). The State should not have any more restraint over people than what God prescribes it to have. Voluntaryism allows total and unchecked freedom for men to voluntarily do that which seems right in their own eyes, be it for ill or good. Voluntarism is just the elevator which takes society down to the dungeon of "might makes right." Unpredictable control of the masses is what volutaryism brings, and that's more dangerous than a ballot box, in my opinion. C'mon Theo. :rolleyes: If I suggest an improvement and you think about it and DECIDE of your own FREE WILL to adopt it, who is CONTROLLING you?

It's NO different than discussing how to fix a car.<IMHO> Do you just keep pouring MORE resources into that old junker? Or just walk away from it and do something else?

Who do you think has been "governing" for millenia now, angels and saints? Looks much more like devils and demons to me. ;)

By their body counts ye shall know tham. :p

Just listen to yourself, if we can manage to do away with force, coercion and violence in our interactions with each other, the world will be a dangerous, scary and WORSE place.

If we don't, we'll be extinct.<IMHO>

Did ya even READ that book? :rolleyes: Who did Jesus EVER VOTE for? ;)

What ever happened to that nice young man? Oh yeah, EXECUTED by a conspiracy between CHURCH and STATE. :rolleyes:

Aggression is Wrong
http://www.voluntaryist.com/lefevre/aggression.php (http://www.voluntaryist.com/lefevre/aggression.php)


"Most of the greatest evils that man has inflicted upon man have come through people feeling quite certain about something which, in fact, was false." -- Bertrand Russell

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 05:52 AM
Which ones are those?

NAP! ( As written above, to someone else, TORY. :p :rolleyes: )

Submitting and giving up? :p;)

Yep, just sail away, like the Pilgrims, etc. did. Think about it. :rolleyes: There's a LONG human tradition.

BTW, didn't Ron just recently "submit" to the GOP threats and give up?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context)

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 05:54 AM
Voting is the illusion of changing the system.

Now can we get real shit done children? Apparently not. :( ;)

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 05:55 AM
So you grumble about doing your civic duty, hanging on every phrase your media masters utter, whilst awaiting your pre-determined fate.

Perhaps you should feel sorry for yourselves.

I'm more than sure, your fore-fathers would tie you to the whipping post.

Precious shits!

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 05:57 AM
I'm completely on board with mediahasyou and truth warrior on voluntaryism.

The idea that we need this fantasy called government to direct our lives is immature and ridiculous, and yes it goes against human nature. Anyone who is for voluntaryism does NOT want to control other people's lives, anyone who is for government is a psychotic control freak (and no it doesn't matter if the majority agree that we need government, they are still batshit crazy.)

:cool: Welcome aboard! :D

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 06:01 AM
So you grumble about doing your civic duty, hanging on every phrase your media masters utter, whilst awaiting your pre-determined fate.

Perhaps you should feel sorry for yourselves.

I'm more than sure, your fore-fathers would tie you to the whipping post.

Precious shits! "Civic duty"? You can't fight an enemy that maintains an outpost in your head.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/freeyourmind.jpg

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 06:06 AM
I consider it my civic duty to vote.

This is no major drama. What's the hassle?

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 06:09 AM
You would prefer another method?

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 06:48 AM
I consider it my civic duty to vote.

This is no major drama. What's the hassle?

http://www.voluntaryist.com/nonvoting/ (http://www.voluntaryist.com/nonvoting/)

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 06:49 AM
You would prefer another method?

NO!

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 06:53 AM
You would prefer another method?

Yes. One that will work. Today. Only if you want it to.

Agorism (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153542). It's up to all of us.

Voting is the process of changing the hood ornament of the political dump truck of the State mowing us down. Voting is political might makes right. Voting is mob rules. Voting is the State perpetuation of the hallucination of choice. Voting is coercing your fellow man.

95% of votes come government educated people...like this:

http://gilliganscorner.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/n575942039_452871_5652.jpg

Good luck with that.

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 06:53 AM
NO!

Geez... You can spell in bold print. How meaningful...

Get over yourself!

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 06:57 AM
Yes. One that will work. Today. Only if you want it to.

Agorism (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153542). It's up to all of us.

Voting is the process of changing the hood ornament of the political dump truck of the State mowing us down. Voting is political might makes right. Voting is mob rules. Voting is the State perpetuation of the hallucination of choice. Voting is coercing your fellow man.

95% of votes come government educated people...like this:

http://gilliganscorner.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/n575942039_452871_5652.jpg

Good luck with that.

I'm no whimp, but...

You gotta put the hard yards in to change the situation.

Or...

You could just shoot the bastards. :D

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 07:00 AM
I'm no whimp, but...

You gotta put the hard yards in to change the situation.

Or...

You could just shoot the bastards. :D

What's a hard yard?

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 07:03 AM
What's a hard yard?

Football.

Fourth and one.

Kick the field goal or make the hard yard.

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 07:13 AM
Football.

Fourth and one.

Kick the field goal or make the hard yard.

Crap. I don't watch sports. Although I can appreciate the art of the game, I can't get on board with the idea of loyalty to a business logo that hires skilled contractors. You could report sports like this.


"Today a group of people in one uniform beat another group of people in a different uniform. For some odd reason, people took pride in the victor or commiserated with the losers, even though they contributed in no meaningful way to the victor's success or the vanquished's failure, just because they were from the same political boundaries like a home town, State, or Country." :eek::D

Back on track, I think I know what you are saying though. You know how hard it is to change a single person's point of view. Think of those around you. A brother. A sister. Your family. A friend. How the hell do you change an entire country of dumbed-down sheep - a product of government indoctrination camps we call public education.

You can't. Get back 10% of your life. The fallacy of reforming the State rests on the premise that the State will help you with the implementation. If you want to push on that string, go ahead, it is your life. Far be it from me to tell people what to do.

However, that said, agorism is the ONLY mechanism I know of that stands a non-zero chance of beating the State. And it is beautifully simple. All you need is 4-5 TRUSTWORTHY trading partners to start with.

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 07:34 AM
Crap. I don't watch sports. Although I can appreciate the art of the game, I can't get on board with the idea of loyalty to a business logo that hires skilled contractors. You could report sports like this.
:eek::D

Back on track, I think I know what you are saying though. You know how hard it is to change a single person's point of view. Think of those around you. A brother. A sister. Your family. A friend. How the hell do you change an entire country of dumbed-down sheep - a product of government indoctrination camps we call public education.

You can't. Get back 10% of your life. The fallacy of reforming the State rests on the premise that the State will help you with the implementation. If you want to push on that string, go ahead, it is your life. Far be it from me to tell people what to do.

However, that said, agorism is the ONLY mechanism I know of that stands a non-zero chance of beating the State. And it is beautifully simple. All you need is 4-5 TRUSTWORTHY trading partners to start with.

As imperfect as the voting system might seem, many countries on this planet would cherish the opportunity to have free and democratic elections.

Start repairing entrenched attitudes and hierarchies from the bottom - up.

Use whatever means at your discretion ---

LibertyEagle
11-10-2008, 07:39 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context)

Learn how to use the little quote button to respond to a post, TW, and I'll consider quoting the entirety of what you say. The way it stands, the interspersal of your reply within someone else's quote, would require me to cut-and-paste to show your quote. Way too much trouble.

:p

LibertyEagle
11-10-2008, 07:43 AM
So you grumble about doing your civic duty, hanging on every phrase your media masters utter, whilst awaiting your pre-determined fate.

Perhaps you should feel sorry for yourselves.

I'm more than sure, your fore-fathers would tie you to the whipping post.

Precious shits!

Yes, I find it curious that those who complain the loudest about the decisions of a jury, or the size of our government, choose to not only not participate, but then spend their time on RPFs trying their level best to get the rest of us to sit on our couches and not work to change anything, just like them.

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 07:45 AM
As imperfect as the voting system might seem, many countries on this planet would cherish the opportunity to have free and democratic elections.

And we do?

Vote rigging? Diebold? Lost ballots? A subverted media? Look how the Establishment came down like a ton of bricks on the Ron Paul campaign. Why is it that so called modern democracies collapse into two party systems like China and the USSR?


Abstain From Beans

By Robert LeFevre (1911 - 1986)

In ancient Athens, those who admired the Stoic philosophy of individualism took as their motto: "Abstain from Beans." The phrase had a precise reference. It meant: don't vote. Balloting in Athens occurred by dropping various colored beans into a receptacle.

To vote is to express a preference. There is nothing implicitly evil in choosing. All of us in the ordinary course of our daily lives vote for or against dozens of products and services. When we vote for (buy) any good or service, it follows that by salutary neglect we vote against the goods or services we do not choose to buy. The great merit of market place choosing is that no one is bound by any other persons selection. I may choose Brand X. But this cannot prevent you from choosing Brand Y.

When we place voting into the framework of politics, however, a major change occurs. When we express a preference politically, we do so precisely because we intend to bind others to our will. Political voting is the legal method we have adopted and extolled for obtaining monopolies of power. Political voting is nothing more than the assumption that might makes right. There is a presumption that any decision wanted by the majority of those expressing a preference must be desirable, and the inference even goes so far as to presume that anyone who differs from a majority view is wrong or possibly immoral.

But history shows repeatedly the madness of crowds and the irrationality of majorities. The only conceivable merit relating to majority rule lies in the fact that if we obtain monopoly decisions by this process, we will coerce fewer persons than if we permit the minority to coerce the majority. But implicit in all political voting is the necessity to coerce some so that all are controlled. The direction taken by the control is academic. Control as a monopoly in the hands of the state is basic.

In times such as these, it is incumbent upon free men to reexamine their most cherished, long-established beliefs. There is only one truly moral position for an honest person to take. He must refrain from coercing his fellows. This means that he should refuse to participate in the process by means of which some men obtain power over others. If you value your right to life, liberty, and property, then clearly there is every reason to refrain from participating in a process that is calculated to remove the life, liberty, or property from any other person. Voting is the method for obtaining legal power to coerce others.

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 07:49 AM
gillianscorner,

Some would argue it is a one party system.

Roll up your sleeves and repair it.

Before it's too late...

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 07:51 AM
Yes, I find it curious that those who complain the loudest about the decisions of a jury, or the size of our government, choose to not only not participate, but then spend their time on RPFs trying their level best to get the rest of us to sit on our couches and not work to change anything, just like them.

Hi LE,

I have never advocated doing nothing. We have voted constantly for less government, but does it work? Has it ever shrunk in the last 300 years?

What I advocate is agorism. I wrote a post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153542) on it in response to a RPF member (Social Engineer) creating the Free Market for Liberty site (http://www.freemarketforliberty.com/). It it totally in line with the message of self-reliance and responsibility. It is peaceful. It is Plan A.

Plan B is the reformation of the State.

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 07:55 AM
Yes, I find it curious that those who complain the loudest about the decisions of a jury, or the size of our government, choose to not only not participate, but then spend their time on RPFs trying their level best to get the rest of us to sit on our couches and not work to change anything, just like them.

I would argue...

That if you do not wish to cast a vote --- cast a blank.

But make your presence felt. Keep the bastards honest!

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 07:57 AM
gillianscorner,

Some would argue it is a one party system.

Roll up your sleeves and repair it.

Before it's too late...

If two bullies are wrestling for control of the gun to level at your head, how do I repair that, other than run away (move...to where?) or hide in plain site (agorism)?

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 08:03 AM
I would argue...

That if you do not wish to cast a vote --- cast a blank.

But make your presence felt. Keep the bastards honest!

Casting a blank?

If media reports low voter turnout, they usually trot out the "voter apathy" argument. To be sure, there is some of that, but how much? We don't know.

Why don't we petition the State to put "None of the Above!" on the ballot? I wonder if voter turnout wouldn't surge specifically to check off that choice? The State doesn't want those metrics to be captured. They want citizens to say, "My fellow countryman is apathetic. He/She should vote, otherwise they don't have the right to complain!" or "People who don't vote get the government they deserve!" or "People died for your right to vote!" or the usual arguments that have the element of coercion behind it. In Australia, they have compulsory voting.

The State would never want it to be reported, "People think voting is pointless!". Could you imagine if "None of the Above!" won by a landslide?

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 08:04 AM
If two bullies are wrestling for control of the gun to level at your head, how do I repair that, other than run away (move...to where?) or hide in plain site (agorism)?

I empathize. It is frustrating for those who give a stuff.

Meanwhile... The ignorant zombies continue their lives of minutia.

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 08:12 AM
Learn how to use the little quote button to respond to a post, TW, and I'll consider quoting the entirety of what you say. The way it stands, the interspersal of your reply within someone else's quote, would require me to cut-and-paste to show your quote. Way too much trouble.

:p Screw your consideration. :p Merely continue your blatant intellectual DISHONESTY and fallacious BS. Just flash 'em your "GENDER PASS". Any lame and bogus excuse will suffice. :p

We've covered THAT boring SHIT, ad nauseum, before, LE. :p :rolleyes:

Just as YOU do, ALL of the time as SOP. I know, you've slept since then.

Just answer the frickin' questions, the pile is getting really high. :rolleyes:

( It must just be a really slow and boring day around the old MOD coffee room. :p )

LibertyEagle
11-10-2008, 08:17 AM
:rolleyes:

TW, if you have questions for me, list them. Yes, I know you'll insist that I go on a hunting spree to find some hidden question that you claim you asked. But, as you know, I'm not going to do that. So, for the last time, if you do in fact have a question or questions for me, list them out below and I will answer them.

Otherwise, continue blathering.

Note: The fact still remains that if you want your posts quoted in their entirety, you need to learn how to use the quote facility in your posts.

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 08:17 AM
Casting a blank?

If media reports low voter turnout, they usually trot out the "voter apathy" argument. To be sure, there is some of that, but how much? We don't know.

Why don't we petition the State to put "None of the Above!" on the ballot? I wonder if voter turnout wouldn't surge specifically to check off that choice? The State doesn't want those metrics to be captured. They want citizens to say, "My fellow countryman is apathetic. He/She should vote, otherwise they don't have the right to complain!" or "People who don't vote get the government they deserve!" or "People died for your right to vote!" or the usual arguments that have the element of coercion behind it. In Australia, they have compulsory voting.

The State would never want it to be reported, "People think voting is pointless!". Could you imagine if "None of the Above!" won by a landslide?

In Australia, you show up to the voting booth, or pay a 20.00 dollar fine.

We vote on the weekend and I've never waited more than thirty minutes to vote.

Afterwards we go the the Pub.

Our primary usually lasts 4 weeks, and no longer than 6 weeks.

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 08:17 AM
I empathize. It is frustrating for those who give a stuff.

Meanwhile... The ignorant zombies continue their lives of minutia.

I realize I sound pessimistic to some. I don't want to minimize the efforts of others. In fact, I respect them. People who have conviction for liberty, truth, sound money, and the message Ron Paul espoused was magnificent. I loved it. RP is the first and only politician running for office I have ever advocated.

We were marginalized. Remember how MSM called us "Internet supporters". It was because the message was not allowed to be heard on MSM forums (i.e. CNN MSNBC et al). Sometimes I wonder if the TPTB didn't have the shit scared out of them by this. We were the "None of the Above" on the ballot. Remember Ron Paul's run in 1988? Neither do I. Why? The internet wasn't there at the time - well, compared to what it is now. Our reality is whatever MSM deemed it was. How many people woke up because of RP running?

Anyway. Have to run. Consider agorism. Think about it, please.

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 08:20 AM
In Australia, you show up to the voting booth, or pay a 20.00 dollar fine.

We vote on the weekend and I've never waited more than thirty minutes to vote.

Afterwards we go the the Pub.

Our primary usually lasts 4 weeks, and no longer than 6 weeks.

I'd pay the twenty.

Otherwise, I would go to the Pub and hear people say, "Today, I voted for the lessor of evils or the evils of lessors to foist on you. A pint, please, to wash off this unpleasant aftertaste of voting." :D

LibertyEagle
11-10-2008, 08:21 AM
I'd pay the twenty.

Otherwise, I would go to the Pub and hear people say, "Today, I voted for the lessor of evils or the evils of lessors to foist on you. A pint, please, to wash off this unpleasant aftertaste of voting." :D

If you find the choices to be so distasteful and I understand if you do, why don't you run for office YOURSELF?

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 08:30 AM
I'd pay the twenty.

Otherwise, I would go to the Pub and hear people say, "Today, I voted for the lessor of evils or the evils of lessors to foist on you. A pint, please, to wash off this unpleasant aftertaste of voting." :D

You are not required to cast a vote, just sign in.

Then have a pint! :D

gilliganscorner
11-10-2008, 08:35 AM
If you find the choices to be so distasteful and I understand if you do, why don't you run for office YOURSELF?

How far would I get? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,446152,00.html)

LibertyEagle
11-10-2008, 08:37 AM
How far would I get? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,446152,00.html)

That would be up to you.

Mount a good campaign and run for something local.

Ozwest
11-10-2008, 08:44 AM
How far would I get? (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,446152,00.html)

LibertyEagle is right.

Start in local government.

Through my business, I interacted with State and local governments all the time.

It is easier, and less intimidating than you think to seek and win local office.

In addition, you get heaps of free drinks and tucker! :D

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 08:45 AM
:rolleyes:

TW, if you have questions for me, list them. Yes, I know you'll insist that I go on a hunting spree to find some hidden question that you claim you asked. But, as you know, I'm not going to do that. So, for the last time, if you do in fact have a question or questions for me, list them out below and I will answer them.

As I know only too well. Of course you won't. Just more of your BORING, lame and bogus BS .................... Again.

Otherwise, continue blathering.

Note: The fact still remains that if you want your posts quoted in their entirety, you need to learn how to use the quote facility in your posts.

Like that last one? ( Ooops sorry, that's another question. :eek: Never mind. :rolleyes: )



You're just silly, DISHONEST and lazy. No SURPRISE there, AT ALL. :p The PERFECT voter. :rolleyes:

LibertyEagle
11-10-2008, 09:45 AM
You're just silly, DISHONEST and lazy. No SURPRISE there, AT ALL. :p The PERFECT voter. :rolleyes:

If all else fails, just start insulting, eh TW?

I guess this means you aren't going to list your questions that you say you have for me, eh? ;)

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 09:57 AM
If all else fails, just start insulting, eh TW?

As I have previously stated ALSO :rolleyes:, I just learned that TACTIC from you. ;)

I guess this means you aren't going to list your questions that you say you have for me, eh? ;)

Good guess there. ;) Nah, because, on reflection, I've now realized that I really don't even give a shit about what you "think" ( so called ).



:p

Truth Warrior
11-10-2008, 01:27 PM
bump