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mediahasyou
11-06-2008, 11:19 AM
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0403a.asp

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 11:28 AM
Thanks for the article. Thankfully we still have the Constitution for the United States of America.

gls
11-06-2008, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the article. Thankfully we still have the Constitution for the United States of America.

Do we? What good is it when it is completely ignored?

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 11:32 AM
It is not ignored at least in the fact that we have now elected a new president who will replace the guy who shredded the "goddamn piece of paper". And he has no excuses; he taught Constitutional Law. So we should hold his feet to the fire.

gls
11-06-2008, 11:38 AM
It is not ignored at least in the fact that we have now elected a new president who will replace the guy who shredded the "goddamn piece of paper". And he has no excuses; he taught Constitutional Law. So we should hold his feet to the fire.

He taught "Constitutional Law" yet believes in a "living Constitution" where the interstate commerce and general welfare clauses give the federal government unlimited power, even though the actual powers allowed to the federal government are clearly enumerated.

He also has voted to reauthorize the PATRIOT ACT and in favor of warrentless wiretapping, among his many other clearly unconstitutional votes.

Crash Martinez
11-06-2008, 11:39 AM
also, how do you propose we "hold his feet to the fire?" unless you mean literally, i doubt it will have any impact.

Truth Warrior
11-06-2008, 11:39 AM
Thanks for the article. Thankfully we still have the Constitution for the United States of America.

The Federal Constitution Is Dead (http://www.lewrockwell.com/gutzman/gutzman17.html)

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 11:43 AM
Another minimalist gem from the truth warrior. I don't think it is dead, it is just virtually ignored, or mis-interpreted. Even the SCOTUS has little understanding of it anymore. Doesn't mean it's dead though. Maybe if WE elected lawmakers who can read!

Crash Martinez
11-06-2008, 11:45 AM
Sure. And the Roman Empire isn't dead either... they just need to re-unite all of Europe and appoint their first Emporer in a while....

Truth Warrior
11-06-2008, 11:47 AM
Another minimalist gem from the truth warrior. I don't think it is dead, it is just virtually ignored, or mis-interpreted. Even the SCOTUS has little understanding of it anymore. Doesn't mean it's dead though. Maybe if WE elected lawmakers who can read! Didn't even bother to read the article, did ya? Optimists are like that. :rolleyes:

Wakey, wakey, Newbee!

ladyjade3
11-06-2008, 11:50 AM
Thanks for this.

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 12:04 PM
He taught "Constitutional Law" yet believes in a "living Constitution" where the interstate commerce and general welfare clauses give the federal government unlimited power, even though the actual powers allowed to the federal government are clearly enumerated.

He also has voted to reauthorize the PATRIOT ACT and in favor of warrentless wiretapping, among his many other clearly unconstitutional votes.


You are right about the living Constitution. I did not like what I read in his book re: the Constitution. But it was not detailed enough. Just a lot of memories of his first days in the Senate and little specifics. This is the problem I have with a lot of the claims here on RPF. Okay, I know about his vote on warrentless wiretapping. But I don't know the specifics you are referring to in Obama's approach to using the interstate commerce clause. And what specifically are you referring to with the general welfare clause? I tried looking it up and only found one article: http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0407/0407obamalaw.htm

It was not very helpful. And I disagreed with much of it. Please advise, gls.

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 12:07 PM
The Federal Constitution Is Dead (http://www.lewrockwell.com/gutzman/gutzman17.html)

Yes, I read it I just disagree. Just because it is on Lew Rockwell's site doesn't mean I agree with it. That was a book review, and from what I could tell it doesn't really make a good case for anything. A book I am reading that may support your claim is "The Rape of the Constitution". That has loads of specifics and lots of detail. I would be happy to discuss specifics. But "The Constitution is Dead" is near meaningless to me. And Ron Paul.

Crash Martinez
11-06-2008, 12:14 PM
Tell me, you who believe the Constitution to be somehow not dead... Where does it live?? Where can its pulse still be felt?

In the election process?
In the decisions of the Supreme Court?
In the procedures and types of legislation enacted by Congress?
In the separation and balance of powers?
In the freedom of speech, the press, assembly, petition for redress of grievances?
In the federal government's respect of the rights of the States and of the citizens?
In the executive respect of the rule of law rather than of men?

'Cuz I'm not finding a pulse in any of those places, nor anywhere else.

Crash Martinez
11-06-2008, 12:15 PM
Ooh, maybe in the freedom of the marketplace!

Nope, sorry. Not anymore.

Crash Martinez
11-06-2008, 12:16 PM
In the protection of Habeas Corpus?

Nope. Try again.

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 12:23 PM
Yep. I'm feelin' it.

Let's start with the election process. They wanted a deliberative body called the electoral college. We still got one. No, it's not deliberative anymore. But it's representative, therefore republican. It's run by the two parties, but manages to run on time, every 4 years.

I think the Constitution is just hidden. That's why I push for education of it from the 1st grade.

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 12:27 PM
Supreme Court: still uses the Constitution ... the way a john uses a whore ... but all the parts are still working. This is a tough one for me. I still can't get over the loss of Common Law, so I'm going to have to get back with ya on the SC. Many decisions are based on the Constitution still. But I'll admit that some decisions, like expanding private property for public good, are unconscionable.

Truth Warrior
11-06-2008, 12:28 PM
'Lysander Spooner once said that he believed "that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize." At the same time, he could not exonerate the Constitution, for it "has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." It is hard to argue with that.' -- Thomas E. Woods Jr

RonPaulNewbee
11-06-2008, 12:37 PM
this is fun, and I like Lysander Spooner, but I have to get on with my day. later dudes!

mediahasyou
11-06-2008, 12:44 PM
“I don't give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

source: http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2005/12/09/bush-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/

Truth Warrior
11-06-2008, 01:02 PM
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0403a.asp

A very good and timely article.<IMHO> Thanks for posting the link. :)

The Rise of the Fourth Reich
The Secret Societies That Threaten to Take Over America
By Jim Marrs
http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061245589/The_Rise_of_the_Fourth_Reich/index.aspx (http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061245589/The_Rise_of_the_Fourth_Reich/index.aspx)


"Those who do not learn from history, are condemned to repeat it."

danberkeley
11-07-2008, 12:19 AM
this is fun, and I like Lysander Spooner, but I have to get on with my day. later dudes!

Now that you are gone, hey everybody, here is my favorite quote in the article:


The overwhelming majority of Germans did not seem to mind that their personal freedom had been taken away, that so much of culture had been destroyed and replaced with a mindless barbarism, or that their life and work had become regimented to a degree never before experienced even by a people accustomed for generations to a great deal of regimentation.... The Nazi terror in the early years affected the lives of relatively few Germans and a newly arrived observer was somewhat surprised to see that the people of this country did not seem to feel that they were being cowed.... On the contrary, they supported it with genuine enthusiasm. Somehow it imbued them with a new hope and a new confidence and an astonishing faith in the future of their country.

AutoDas
11-07-2008, 01:33 AM
source: http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2005/12/09/bush-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/

That's not how citing your sources works...