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View Full Version : Why are people so disappointed in the election results???




silus
11-04-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm pretty baffled by all this. I'm not here all the time, but I thought this forum was still influenced by what Ron Paul has brought to this election cycle. Did it become a McCain camp all of a sudden? I dont understand this consistent disappointment here by the results. I mean, would you be elated had McCain won? It really doesn't make much sense to me.

Personally this at least opens the door for a 3rd party run in 2012. If the Republicans won, it would have funneled most opposition still to the Democratic side. But either way, i'm not taking any joy or sadness in who won today, the mission remains the same, and the mission would not have changed regardless of the election results.

Minlawc
11-04-2008, 11:26 PM
We are more dissapointed with the congressional losses...

muh_roads
11-04-2008, 11:27 PM
Did BJ Lawson lose?

silus
11-04-2008, 11:28 PM
Oh. Which libertarian leaning Republicans lost?

tremendoustie
11-04-2008, 11:28 PM
I'm pretty baffled by all this. I'm not here all the time, but I thought this forum was still influenced by what Ron Paul has brought to this election cycle. Did it become a McCain camp all of a sudden? I dont understand this consistent disappointment here by the results. I mean, would you be elated had McCain won? It really doesn't make much sense to me.

Personally this at least opens the door for a 3rd party run in 2012. If the Republicans won, it would have funneled most opposition still to the Democratic side. But either way, i'm not taking any joy or sadness in who won today, the mission remains the same, and the mission would not have changed regardless of the election results.

No, we would not be elated. What sucks is that B.J. Lawson lost, along with many other great liberty candidates, and the total # of votes for third parties was way to low.

Almost no one here likes McCain either, but realizing how screwed this country is with Obama is a sobering thought, even if the alternative was not better.

silus
11-04-2008, 11:37 PM
Almost no one here likes McCain either, but realizing how screwed this country is with Obama is a sobering thought, even if the alternative was not better.
Sounds like you prefer another helping of George W. Or maybe the status quo is not sobering at all to you. :shrug

I'm not criticizing you, but its funny how human nature can make us prefer the past 8 years to Obama... Or more accurately, preferring absolute shit to unknown shit. Its like people would actually prefer a continuation just so its predictable.

tremendoustie
11-04-2008, 11:42 PM
Sounds like you prefer another helping of George W. Or maybe the status quo is not sobering at all to you. :shrug

I'm not criticizing you, but its funny how human nature can make us prefer the past 8 years to Obama... Or more accurately, preferring absolute shit to unknown shit. Its like people would actually prefer a continuation just so its predictable.

I'm not sure whether more Bush would be worse or better than Obama, we'll see. I definitely wouldn't jump at the trade, if you offered me more Bush instead.

At least people hated Bush, so what he could do has been limited. Obama will be able to get away with anything he wants.

The status quo is very sobering also though, and Bush has been intolerable.

john_anderson_ii
11-04-2008, 11:43 PM
The democrats have nearly absolute power now. Not really because they have good ideas that are going to be good for the nation, and not because people really believe in the 'change' to a socialist/federalist agenda, but because the Republicans effed just about everything up. The stain of neoconservatism has destroyed any credibility in the Republican party.

Well the democrats are almost certain to eff everything up just as bad as the republicans have. Remember, the Bush republicans represented a major shift to the left for the republican party. The election of Obama, and with the help of major players like Reid, Pelosi, and Biden the democrats are sure to drag America even further down. There will be a large shift to the left. Not that a McCain election would have been much better.

When the democrats complete what the neocons have started and the country is brought to it's knees, I can only see three options for this country:

Option 1: The nation swings further left and begs the government to bail out, or nationalize, more of the banking industry, more of the energy industry, etc. This drags the republicans even further to the left because they are competing for votes.

Option 2: The credibility of the democrats gets trashed and America cries out for a return to the right, thereby restoring the credibility of the republicans somewhat, and the GOP has to shift back to the right.

Option 3: America wakes up and stops playing the party game. With the credibility of both parties in shambles America turns to individuals with good libertarian values and 3rd parties. This is a longshot.

In reality Option 2 seems the likeliest. The republican party was just smashed, and it now has to decide how it will pick up the pieces. Will it shift further left into neoconservativsm in order to chase votes, or will it shift back to the right in order to offer itself as an alternative to the mess the democrats will surely make of things.

Kevin_Kennedy
11-04-2008, 11:46 PM
I'm depressed in general, regardless of Obama or McCain. Neither of those two made a difference to me. I'm depressed at the state of the nation, the fact that Lawson got killed, and Robert Owens had a horrible showing.

I think I'm more depressed about Ron Paul losing the primaries now than I was when he withdrew in June.

jbrace
11-04-2008, 11:46 PM
Who's faults is it the Republicans messed it up?! No one but ourselves. I dont get why your sitting here whining about omg were screwed. We've been screwed for awhile now. We would be in the same boat with Mccain or Obama.

Kludge
11-04-2008, 11:48 PM
I'm very concerned with the margins Democrats now have in the federal government... I was not expecting the GOP to experience such a crushing defeat and it's going to make it all the more difficult in 2010 and 2012 for ourselves and the GOP should we choose to move forward mutually.

john_anderson_ii
11-04-2008, 11:54 PM
I'm very concerned with the margins Democrats now have in the federal government... I was not expecting the GOP to experience such a crushing defeat and it's going to make it all the more difficult in 2010 and 2012 for ourselves and the GOP should we choose to move forward mutually.

In the short run, an Obama presidency with a Democrat house and senate is going to suck. I'm sure Obama will have the opportunity to appoint at least 2 if not 3 justices, meaning we will again have a supreme court that thinks the Constitution is a 'living and progressive' document.

In the long run this outright slap in the face to the republican party might, just might wake them up and bring them back to their libertarian roots so that we can move forward mutually. Of course, this was what I thought after 2006 as well.....

merrimac
11-04-2008, 11:57 PM
I'm not in a bad mood. The Republicans just got their asses handed to them and so there is a little hope that they will produce a quasi-Ron Paul like candidate in 2012. I have a suspicion that many Republicans will stop supporting the Iraq war because we will have a Democratic commander and chief.

BTW, I am very, very happy that the McCain supporters are feeling what I, as a Ron Paul supporter, felt about 9 or 10 months ago.

jclay2
11-04-2008, 11:58 PM
The reason why this election is so depressing is because it makes official what we allready know. Of course with all the trillions of dollars being spent on bailouts, our country was completely toast and in the gutter. Now that we have a self proclaimed socialist, it makes it more real. Although the Democrats and the Republicans are essentially the same, the do have a pendulum. With the huge democrat win, we now realize that the center of the pendulum, status quo, has been shifted farther left and closer to socialism. Lastly, with the huge democratic margins and a hurting economy there is great concern that Obama and the democrats might feel "mandated" to start a new new deal, causing trillions of dollars of defecits we can't afford.

Yes, Mccain would have likely gotten us to the same place, Obama just makes it more apparent.

vodalian
11-04-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm not in a bad mood. The Republicans just got their asses handed to them and so there is a little hope that they will produce a quasi-Ron Paul like candidate in 2012. I have a suspicion that many Republicans will stop supporting the Iraq war because we will have a Democratic commander and chief.

BTW, I am very, very happy that the McCain supporters are feeling what I, as a Ron Paul supporter, felt about 9 or 10 months ago.

Yes another person who thinks elections are about revenge. Big surprise there..

Paulitician
11-05-2008, 12:01 AM
I'm excited! I already have my suspicions of what's going to happen the next 4 or 8 years (and it doesn't look at all pretty), but to watch in real time will be fun.

jclay2
11-05-2008, 12:02 AM
I'm excited! I already have my suspicions of what's going to happen the next 4 or 8 years (and it doesn't look at all pretty), but to watch in real time will be fun.

Yeah, I have that same feeling.

john_anderson_ii
11-05-2008, 12:02 AM
I'm excited! I already have my suspicions of what's going to happen the next 4 or 8 years (and it doesn't look at all pretty), but to watch in real time will be fun.

Sort of like a train wreck in slo-motion. It's horrible and disgusting, but I just can't look away. :p

tremendoustie
11-05-2008, 12:04 AM
I'm excited! I already have my suspicions of what's going to happen the next 4 or 8 years (and it doesn't look at all pretty), but to watch in real time will be fun.

I don't know. If it means people will wake up and reject the corrupt institutions that are failing, I won't mind whatever hardship comes, and I will cheer the failures of statism. If people are going to get suckered into willingly and happily giving up yet more freedom, that doesn't sound fun at all to me.

People getting brainwashed and conned just makes me sick to my stomach.

Minuteman2008
11-05-2008, 12:44 AM
The democrats have nearly absolute power now. Not really because they have good ideas that are going to be good for the nation, and not because people really believe in the 'change' to a socialist/federalist agenda, but because the Republicans effed just about everything up. The stain of neoconservatism has destroyed any credibility in the Republican party.

Well the democrats are almost certain to eff everything up just as bad as the republicans have. Remember, the Bush republicans represented a major shift to the left for the republican party. The election of Obama, and with the help of major players like Reid, Pelosi, and Biden the democrats are sure to drag America even further down. There will be a large shift to the left. Not that a McCain election would have been much better.

When the democrats complete what the neocons have started and the country is brought to it's knees, I can only see three options for this country:

Option 1: The nation swings further left and begs the government to bail out, or nationalize, more of the banking industry, more of the energy industry, etc. This drags the republicans even further to the left because they are competing for votes.

Option 2: The credibility of the democrats gets trashed and America cries out for a return to the right, thereby restoring the credibility of the republicans somewhat, and the GOP has to shift back to the right.

Option 3: America wakes up and stops playing the party game. With the credibility of both parties in shambles America turns to individuals with good libertarian values and 3rd parties. This is a longshot.

In reality Option 2 seems the likeliest. The republican party was just smashed, and it now has to decide how it will pick up the pieces. Will it shift further left into neoconservativsm in order to chase votes, or will it shift back to the right in order to offer itself as an alternative to the mess the democrats will surely make of things.

This is a reallly excellent post. What scares me is how many will think that the GOP didn't shift far enough toward the left/neoconservative ideology. Tim Pawlenty was on CNN earlier mentioning how the party has to be more inclusive toward blacks and Hispanics and so on. Individual liberty, how about that, rather than group identity politics. The GOP cannot hope to compete with the Dems on that front. McCain was the biggest pandering fool the GOP has ever seen and where did it get him?

I'm really hoping for option three, but I'll settle for option two.

john_anderson_ii
11-05-2008, 12:59 AM
I'm really hoping for option three, but I'll settle for option two.

I agree completely. Unfortunately option three requires a major shift in the brain housing group of your average joe American. Unfortunately, the MSM and other institutions who benefit immensely from the two party system won't exactly volunteer to lubricate the shift, and the brain housing group of Americans is pretty rusty and locked in place.

Option 2 is perfectly feasible, but it requires good timing and continued efforts on behalf of 'Ron Paul Republicans' like us. In short, we have to infiltrate the party much further before left shifting republicans start to win elections.

Theoretically speaking, the GOP can change it's direction two different ways, internally or externally. If GOP candidates shift further to the left and are rewarded with electoral wins, then external change will occur wherein the GOP will start vote chasing, ushering in option 1. However, if Ron Paul candidates infiltrate the GOP enough to bring the party back to it's fundamentals, then internal change will occur and the party will be rewarded by winning elections when the democrats screw things up.

aravoth
11-05-2008, 01:14 AM
Sounds like you prefer another helping of George W. Or maybe the status quo is not sobering at all to you. :shrug

I'm not criticizing you, but its funny how human nature can make us prefer the past 8 years to Obama... Or more accurately, preferring absolute shit to unknown shit. Its like people would actually prefer a continuation just so its predictable.

On march 15th 2009, come back to this thread please.

Josh_LA
11-05-2008, 01:17 AM
only stupid rednecks and neocon warmongers are disappointed.

nobody's crying stolen election.

Ex Post Facto
11-05-2008, 03:38 AM
In North Carolina...the Libertarian Party is an official state recognized party now. No signatures neded for them to get back on the ballot.

dannno
11-05-2008, 04:06 AM
I am drunk on champagne, celebrating John McCain's loss with my Obama supporting friends (2 of 3 would have voted for Ron Paul if he was the contender rather than McCain)

I'm not elated about Obama's win.

I'm definitely saddened by the the losses for the liberty candidates. We have a lot of work to do.

kojirodensetsu
11-05-2008, 04:07 AM
Yes, Mccain would have likely gotten us to the same place, Obama just makes it more apparent.
I agree.

But for me it's also because I hate all those "yes we can" people.

Truth Warrior
11-05-2008, 04:25 AM
I'm pretty baffled by all this. I'm not here all the time, but I thought this forum was still influenced by what Ron Paul has brought to this election cycle. Did it become a McCain camp all of a sudden? I dont understand this consistent disappointment here by the results. I mean, would you be elated had McCain won? It really doesn't make much sense to me.

Personally this at least opens the door for a 3rd party run in 2012. If the Republicans won, it would have funneled most opposition still to the Democratic side. But either way, i'm not taking any joy or sadness in who won today, the mission remains the same, and the mission would not have changed regardless of the election results. REALITY disappoints the optimists ALL OF THE TIME.<IMHO> :(

Reality RULES!!! ;)

tomjammarsh
11-05-2008, 05:08 PM
This can be good. Maybe a dose of socialism will help reform the Republican party or create a new one altogether.

RP08
11-05-2008, 05:49 PM
All these "paid-for" politicians make me sick. A vote for one is equally a vote for the other, but NEITHER actual politician. The winners are our "loaners". Over-seas and out of your personal "contributions" (losses). Personally, I am not against some form of some "representation" (not governing) from our upper-tier, but I happen to have a belief that the American people can come up with some, way cool system, that is not corrupted by beuracracy and red tape, and get some stuff done. Do I believe in run-away monopolies? NO! I lost my upper-middle-class job that I worked for over 2 decades to build, so they could show investors "lower overhead" costs. Gov't [should] represents... it does not rule. I want my great grandfather's America back.

We still wrote in Ron Paul, and flippin' proud of it.

fedup100
11-05-2008, 06:00 PM
You should realize by now you will not take this country back with politics. The people will not wake up. Your only options at this time is secede, fight or move to another country.

There is one other, Russia may have mercy on us and bomb DC and rid all of us from this demonic government.

anaconda
11-05-2008, 11:36 PM
You should realize by now you will not take this country back with politics. The people will not wake up. Your only options at this time is secede, fight or move to another country.

I have also begun to think about the absolute unwillingness of the masses to think for themselves and form large alliances accordingly. I think what's happening is that the party power brokers from the Democrats and Republicans are both in collusion with each other and with the globalist elites to appear to differentiate themselves to the masses. They are allowed to keep their status and funding and media hegemony as long as they play by the rules that keeps the elites larger plans on track from administration to administration. I think this is a pretty tough nut to crack. I don't think we should stop trying to educate ourselves and spread the word, but I am somewhat pessimistic about the constitution reigning supreme. I think it's a crooked system of payoffs... a delicate balance of conning the masses into working hard and paying taxes and keeping their standard of living just well off enough to avoid a revolution. Their investment in the police state is probably a hedge against revolution also. The fact that the masses vote against their better interests every election is really remarkable. The globalists are doin' a hell of a job.

jeepndesert
11-06-2008, 12:13 AM
the results were disappointing. especially the u.s. minnesota senate race and the race between nancy pelosi and cindy sheehan. i suspect that the numbers were made up by diebold there.

the only real victory was the performance of ron paul.

however, this election was rigged from the start. there wasn't going to be a victory anywhere in the general election. third party candidates were splintered.

we lost key races in the primary, primarily between bob barr and mary ruwart. you got to become delegates of the libertarian party and be vigilant to identify and run out the neocons.

dr. mary ruwart could have united the dr. ron paul movement. bob barr was there to destroy it.

we're going down the shit hole fast and only going completely down the shit hole is going to be enough to awaken the people and make them vigilant.

looks like they are going to force us to go with the militia option. our only hope is if we can break the matrix and expose the true criminals and root of all evil, the federal reserve, and have their pawns in d.c. smarten up, switch sides, and stand up.

there is going to be a french revolution in this country if the congress doesn't switch sides and stand up because they are going to shove a dictatorship so far down our throats it's going to be obvious to even the most hypnotized obama sheep.

jeepndesert
11-06-2008, 12:17 AM
....Their investment in the police state is probably a hedge against revolution also. The fact that the masses vote against their better interests every election is really remarkable. The globalists are doin' a hell of a job.

the good news is that the u.s. military are behind ron paul and the u.s. constitution, not the bankers.

if it comes down to the militia, the military will join the militia, hijack some bombers, and shock and awe the neocons dead in their ivory towers.

Philadelphia76
11-06-2008, 01:55 AM
A rough night for the liberty candidates. That said... I think we should be heartened by the Obama victory in some ways. #1 our foreign policy stands to veer away from Neo-Conservative adventurism to a more pragmatic internationlist foreign policy- which obviously isn't good enough (STILL not what the Founders intended)- but should keep us out of more senseless, expensive "go it alone" wars. #2 the GOP has been absolutely humiliated and forced to take a long walk in the wilderness to figure out who they are and where they want to be. Many "mainstream" Republicans are talking about a "return to basics"- this is an opportunity for us.

I think the key struggle will be between them wanting to go back to the true conservativism of Ronald Reagan ca. 1976 or that of the President Reagan of the 1980's (lower taxes BUT deficit spending, inflation, robust foreign involvements). Hopefully we can steer 'em more towards the '76 version... At any rate, at least now we have the chance. A McCain victory would have resulted in a complete transfer of authority to the Neo Cons and the final death of the alliance between the true conservative movement and the GOP. At least it lives on (barely) for the next several months...

anaconda
11-06-2008, 03:08 AM
the good news is that the u.s. military are behind ron paul and the u.s. constitution, not the bankers.

if it comes down to the militia, the military will join the militia, hijack some bombers, and shock and awe the neocons dead in their ivory towers.

Tell me how you know this. I want to believe this. Please tell me what your evidence of this is. Also, what are you referring to when you say "militia?" State national guards? Aren't they all in Iraq and indistinguishable from regular troops?

anaconda
11-06-2008, 03:14 AM
our foreign policy stands to veer away from Neo-Conservative adventurism to a more pragmatic internationlist foreign policy- which obviously isn't good enough (STILL not what the Founders intended)- but should keep us out of more senseless, expensive "go it alone" wars. #2 the GOP has been absolutely humiliated and forced to take a long walk in the wilderness to figure out who they are and where they want to be. Many "mainstream" Republicans are talking about a "return to basics"- this is an opportunity for us.

I believe it is much worse than you realize. The neocon agenda was probably planned so that the left could be seduced with a charismatic successor. The one world government pieces are being hastily ushered in now. Just listen to Ron Paul yesterday on Alex Jones. Dr. Paul pulls no punches whatsoever. It's really something. I'm surprised there's not more of an uproar on the forum.

libertarian4321
11-06-2008, 04:23 AM
the results were disappointing. especially the u.s. minnesota senate race and the race between nancy pelosi and cindy sheehan. i suspect that the numbers were made up by diebold there.



I keep telling you folks, there wasn't a chance in HELL that Pelosi was going to lose, or even be remotely threatened.

Her district is overwhelmingly Democratic. No Republican or "Independent" has a snowballs chance in Hell of winning. The straight ticket Dem votes alone are enough to get her elected every year.

So no, its not Diebold, its GERRYMANDERING. Pelosi has that seat as long as he wants it, and no underfunded third party person, even if she has a little name recognition, is going to change that.

You could run Ronald Reagan as a Rep. in that district, and he would get buried. You could run Jesus, Captain America, or the Pope as an independent, and the result would be the same. No help needed from Diebold.

For many in congress, the only way they can lose is to be convicted of a Felony. Actually, Alaska has shown us that even that won't do the trick...

libertarian4321
11-06-2008, 04:25 AM
the good news is that the u.s. military are behind ron paul and the u.s. constitution, not the bankers.



I've spent decades in the military.

Let me assure you, most folks in the military are just as ignorant as civilians- they have no bloody idea what's in the Constitution, other than a few parts of the Bill of Rights.

They'd do as they were told, nothing more, nothing less.

angelatc
11-06-2008, 05:03 AM
Sounds like you prefer another helping of George W. Or maybe the status quo is not sobering at all to you. :shrug

I'm not criticizing you, but its funny how human nature can make us prefer the past 8 years to Obama... Or more accurately, preferring absolute shit to unknown shit. Its like people would actually prefer a continuation just so its predictable.

Stop putting words in other people's mouths. Nobody said they prefer the past 8 years to Obama, so there's really mot much for you to find funny.

We are bummed about the state of the country in general, and we are bummed that the liberty candidates lost their congressional races.