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View Full Version : This puts a huge nail in the libertarian party!




klamath
11-04-2008, 09:26 PM
A really really pathetic showing for the libertarian and consitution party and all the gloating and cheering by the democrats and libertarians on these forums about the republican losses even decent republicans sure isn't making me trust them. Those that are cheering all republican losses I believe have been using this movement to divide the right so they could get a massive left win.:mad:

kirkblitz
11-04-2008, 09:30 PM
Sorry but the gop over the last few hours have been saying they will move LEFT so they can get the liberal vote, a GOP goveneor said it and a few state chairmens. Dont blame us

Lovecraftian4Paul
11-04-2008, 09:32 PM
McCain and the GOP elite are not part of the right. Or the left. Or really anything at all. They are globalists obsessed only with personal power and murdering this country. Let them rot.

virgil47
11-04-2008, 09:33 PM
Yep the democrat (socialist) shills on this forum have done their jobs well. Divide and conquer.

ArrestPoliticians
11-04-2008, 09:34 PM
A really really pathetic showing for the libertarian and consitution party and all the gloating and cheering by the democrats and libertarians on these forums about the republican losses even decent republicans sure isn't making me trust them. Those that are cheering all republican losses I believe have been using this movement to divide the right so they could get a massive left win.:mad:

GOP is statist, not right.

tremendoustie
11-04-2008, 09:36 PM
GOP is statist, not right.

Agreed. It isn't even about left and right anymore, it's just about us vs. them. Politicians who will use the people to increase their power over the economy, society, and speech, in order to benefit themselves and their buddies, vs the people themselves.

A. Havnes
11-04-2008, 09:38 PM
The people who are cheering Republican losses are simply trying to get their own personal revenge on the people who dismissed Ron Paul. Granted, I am mourning an Obama win, but I understand where the others are coming from.

Now, I don't think it was a big surprise to anyone that the third parties didn't make a strong showing. How could they, what with all the bias? The sheeple won't vote for someone who hasn't been on Fox News a billion times, and most sure aren't going to go against the flow by doing their own research and chosing their own candidate. It's our job to reform this stupid system and make sure that the third party candidates are viable in the future.

klamath
11-04-2008, 09:43 PM
It is not about the gop losing. They had that coming. It is about those cheering the loss of even good members of congress that fought tooth and nail against the bailout. It is those that are cheering a massive democratic majority. That is what I am having a problem with on these boards.

JAlli41
11-04-2008, 09:46 PM
the problem is that the libertarian party should not be trying to get votes, it should be an educational party who tries succeed through the gop...stop picking bob barr type people who dont even understand the economics they are supposed to be promoting... Long live the LPRadicals

Lovecraftian4Paul
11-04-2008, 09:46 PM
The people who are cheering Republican losses are simply trying to get their own personal revenge on the people who dismissed Ron Paul. Granted, I am mourning an Obama win, but I understand where the others are coming from.

Now, I don't think it was a big surprise to anyone that the third parties didn't make a strong showing. How could they, what with all the bias? The sheeple won't vote for someone who hasn't been on Fox News a billion times, and most sure aren't going to go against the flow by doing their own research and chosing their own candidate. It's our job to reform this stupid system and make sure that the third party candidates are viable in the future.

It's not just personal revenge though. It's the fact that the GOP truly proved themselves to be as slimy and wicked as the Democrats. Perhaps I see it differently because I was never really tied in with the Republicans. They aren't my "old club," so to speak. With a few exceptions like Goldwater and Paul, what they've always been has been very obvious to me. Corrosive refuse who deserve to be washed away by a different stream of debris tonight, while I long for the day when we will finally purge out all the pollutants from both major parties.

slacker921
11-04-2008, 09:47 PM
ahhh.. sorry. I didn't see any liberals at my local GOP meetings or at the state GOP convention where the GOP was doing their best to run us off. If anyone was doing any dividing it was the GOP.

And believe it or not the vast majority of the voters in the US have never even heard of these forums... and most barely know who Ron Paul is.

mport1
11-04-2008, 09:47 PM
the problem is that the libertarian party should not be trying to get votes, it should be an educational party who tries succeed through the gop...stop picking bob barr type people who dont even understand the economics they are supposed to be promoting... Long live the LPRadicals

+1

thomaspaine23
11-04-2008, 09:48 PM
It is not about the gop losing. They had that coming. It is about those cheering the loss of even good members of congress that fought tooth and nail against the bailout. It is those that are cheering a massive democratic majority. That is what I am having a problem with on these boards.

And what do you think will be the outcome for the GOP?
EVERYTHING they have done has been REPUDIATED.
The party will be in a shambles. If they want to remain a viable party
they will have to REBUILD....

Knowing this, WHO raised a crapload of money brought in new young supporters
and put up a good race EVEN with biased coverage etc.???

Ron Paul.

The question is will the GOP see the light and go back to the Goldwater wing?
If not they are toast

.

Razmear
11-04-2008, 09:48 PM
The so called Libertarians who nominated Barr are the ones who hammered the nails in the coffin.
I voted Libertarian the last 3 elections, but could never have voted for a scumbag like Barr.

eb

thomaspaine23
11-04-2008, 09:51 PM
The so called Libertarians who nominated Barr are the ones who hammered the nails in the coffin.
I voted Libertarian the last 3 elections, but could never have voted for a scumbag like Barr.

eb

Me Either...

I was willing to give Barr a shot. Then he picked Root (this guy is friends with freaking Karl Rove and has had him over for dinner!)

In the end I wrote in Paul, and never felt better about voting for anyone.

Alawn
11-04-2008, 10:07 PM
And what do you think will be the outcome for the GOP?
EVERYTHING they have done has been REPUDIATED.
The party will be in a shambles. If they want to remain a viable party
they will have to REBUILD....

Knowing this, WHO raised a crapload of money brought in new young supporters
and put up a good race EVEN with biased coverage etc.???

Ron Paul.

The question is will the GOP see the light and go back to the Goldwater wing?
If not they are toast

.

You are out of your mind. They are already saying they will move to the LEFT next time in order to get back more votes. In 10 years the republicans will be what the democrats are today and the democrats will be what the socialist party is.

torchbearer
11-04-2008, 10:08 PM
Its a victory for the purist, and Mary Ruwart will have the nomination in 4 years if she wants it.

thomaspaine23
11-04-2008, 10:11 PM
You are out of your mind. They are already saying they will move to the LEFT next time in order to get back more votes. In 10 years the republicans will be what the democrats are today and the democrats will be what the socialist party is.

If they do, they will lose the conservative core of the party PERIOD.

The constitution party will pick up the Huckabees and Probably the gun folks....

heavenlyboy34
11-04-2008, 10:11 PM
Its a victory for the purist, and Mary Ruwart will have the nomination in 4 years if she wants it.

+1 ...still hoping for liberty, unlikely as it seems.

klamath
11-04-2008, 10:14 PM
The party as a whole deserved it but those cheering the loss of individual good members that vote 70% and better our way and cheer the election of members of congress that vote 8% to 20% our way I don't call that progress I call that trickery. If that is how you people think we advance liberty I guess I am out of here.

Brassmouth
11-04-2008, 10:33 PM
You are out of your mind. They are already saying they will move to the LEFT next time in order to get back more votes. In 10 years the republicans will be what the democrats are today and the democrats will be what the socialist party is.

QFT!!!

People who talk about reviving the GOP are idiots.

The_Orlonater
11-04-2008, 10:34 PM
The so called Libertarians who nominated Barr are the ones who hammered the nails in the coffin.
I voted Libertarian the last 3 elections, but could never have voted for a scumbag like Barr.

eb

It's strange, we were polling well for a while.
All the liberty candidates lost too.

We can all do one thing, and that is to secede and form a new republic(s).

tonesforjonesbones
11-04-2008, 10:39 PM
Sorry...I haven't trusted C4L since they pushed the movement to vote for all the third party people shattering any sort of cohesiveness the movement had. I believe it was for the Obama win that they did it. I have been disappointed in them ever since. I don't trust them at this point. tones

Dave
11-04-2008, 10:39 PM
People who talk about reviving the GOP are idiots.

You calling Ron Paul an idiot? What was the theme of the Rally For The Republic?

Hint: Calling The GOP Back To Its Roots

I must be on the wrong forums...

ArrestPoliticians
11-04-2008, 10:40 PM
QFT!!!

People who talk about reviving the GOP are idiots.

Of course we can revive the GOP, as long as we take it over from the ground level. This is the path Ron Paul's example shows can be somewhat effective.

The_Orlonater
11-04-2008, 10:41 PM
Fuck the GOP, get rid of the U.S. for good.

mediahasyou
11-04-2008, 10:43 PM
it's time for libertarians to lose the LP.

bojo68
11-04-2008, 10:45 PM
The so called Libertarians who nominated Barr are the ones who hammered the nails in the coffin.
I voted Libertarian the last 3 elections, but could never have voted for a scumbag like Barr.

eb
+1

tremendoustie
11-04-2008, 11:01 PM
Sorry...I haven't trusted C4L since they pushed the movement to vote for all the third party people shattering any sort of cohesiveness the movement had. I believe it was for the Obama win that they did it. I have been disappointed in them ever since. I don't trust them at this point. tones

Yes, they should have supported Bailout McWar, betrayed their stated principles and months of RP arguments against the "lesser of two evils" crap, and lost all credibility, right? Great plan, let's all vote for Rs and Ds, we'll be exactly like all the sheep.

Tones, I am glad you're here, and I will be glad to work with you to promote liberty in the future, but I am curious: In the primary, what did you say to people who were ambivalent about Romney or McCain, but hated the other, in order to convince them to vote for Paul? Did you argue that despite those two being the front runners, one should vote for what is right, rather than exclusively for top 2 candidates? How will you argue this case in the future? It is unlikely that a liberty candidate will start out as a top 2 candidate.

I guess you felt there wasn't much difference between McCain and Romney, but there were worlds of difference between Obama and McCain? So, in the future (say GOP primary), what if the top early going media darlings are very different -- say one is bad but the other is awful -- will you be able to support the liberty candidate?

tonesforjonesbones
11-04-2008, 11:05 PM
Our movement was so small in my town...we did the best we could to create events..and both were on television...this town was impossible to make any sort of impact. tones

WRellim
11-04-2008, 11:34 PM
A really really pathetic showing for the libertarian and consitution party and all the gloating and cheering by the democrats and libertarians on these forums about the republican losses even decent republicans sure isn't making me trust them. Those that are cheering all republican losses I believe have been using this movement to divide the right so they could get a massive left win.:mad:


Libertarian Party
By choosing Bob Barr, the LP essentially CHOSE to commit suicide. Personally, I believe Bob Barr accomplished exactly what he set out to do -- nullify the LP and prevent any "liberty movement" from gaining any ground through it.

But, whether it was INTENTIONAL or not... THAT is what was "achieved."



Constitution Party
I think the CP was harmed more by the California "Alan Keyes" fiasco, and (sad to say) by Ron Paul equivocating over Barr/Baldwin/etc. and therefore delaying in endorsing Baldwin, and by the side-tracking of efforts into the C4L (which really accomplished next to nothing this cycle -- it came in many days too late and too many dollars short).

Long and short of it is that the RP movement support for Baldwin happened TOO LATE for it to matter; there just weren't enough people left, and there wasn't enough time (and thus money) to even achieve a "small" showing.

I think the CP gained a small amount of ground -- locally -- but lost it's biggest resource in the California group (the Alan Keye's split). Only time will tell what happens there in the future.



Republican Party
But similarly, the GOP also CHOSE to commit suicide by "selecting" John McCain... actually that should be qualified, they committed suicide by being so "directionless" and "leaderless" and "uncertain" that they ALLOWED the party to END UP WITH John McCain (here in my state no one really WANTED him as a candidate -- when they did a show of hands "poll" at a GOP luncheon here last January, McCain got ZERO votes, when even Tom Tancredo and Rudy "Crossdresser" Giuliani got a few).

If ANYONE is to "blame" on a strategic political basis -- it is really Dick Cheney -- who by hanging on to the VP slot for both terms prevented there from being anyone who could truly "lead" the party, and left it in a directionless CHAOS for it's nomination process (so he not only fucked over the nation, he fucked over his own party as well... ironic, isn't it?)

And yes, I've heard (and read) the bloviating by a couple of neocon beltway "pundits" pushing the "Grand New Party" meme (a book with one of the authors being a writer for -- of all places -- the socialist "New Republic")... pushing the concept that the Republican party needs to move more to the "left."

But there are two things about that:

1) The ground-level people are NOT "pushing" the "move to the left" meme -- that is mainly coming from low-level beltway neocon pundit types... most of whom will now jump ship for the Obama administration (I even predict that we'll see one or two Congressman and/or Senators switch parties AFTER the election). As the local party entities come back together to "lick" their wounds, to play the "blame game" and plan for the future... THEN we will see which direction the party will turn.

2) Unless they endorse "Universal Healthcare" and "Abortion on Demand" -- anathema to the core (of voters) that remain GOP -- there really aren't ANY issues the party move any further "Left" on (unless they choose to advocate full-on communism.)

Think about it, under Bush-II they've already adopted the Wilsonian "Save the world for Democracy" bullshit, as well as the FDR-like "New Deal" and "Dictator-in-Chief" policies; and switched to the "Shock Doctrine" and "Crisis/Emergency" baloney to implement ALL of their policies (again, much like FDR); at the "top level" in the Beltway, there is/was not much "left" for them to cave on anymore... they are already virtually identical to the Democrats. (The only difference THIS election was that they chose [yet another] pasty old white guy with a closet full of skeletons instead of a charismatic good-looking multi-ethnic guy.)

BUT -- and here is what is important. Because the party is now virtually a "minority" status entity in the Beltway, the "control" of what remains will descend down to the state and local level. Karl Rove and his neocon ilk will either bolt for the Democratic party, OR they are dead in the water.

And, whether he likes it or not, Obama now "owns" both the Bush Foreign policy AND the Bush "Economic Bailout" -- he was FOR both of those things and will inherit ownership of them just as much as FDR inherited Hoover's fiascos. The GOP can now (finally) "bury" it's association with those things alongside John McCain, and in the same grave.

It remains to be seen WHAT happens at the local and state levels... And it will be up to people like Mark Sanford (SC) and the other GOP Governors -- who will be busy FIGHTING the "Obama-nation" programs at the state level -- PLUS the "generic" local party members themselves... to shape the future of the party.

In short, the next two years are OUR chance; let's not WASTE it.

Matt Collins
11-05-2008, 09:39 AM
If they do, they will lose the conservative core of the party PERIOD.But that won't matter if they keep getting liberals to vote for them (such as for McCain).

Matt Collins
11-05-2008, 09:39 AM
People who talk about reviving the GOP are idiots.You think Ron Paul is an idiot :confused::rolleyes:

Matt Collins
11-05-2008, 09:41 AM
Sorry...I haven't trusted C4L since they pushed the movement to vote for all the third party people shattering any sort of cohesiveness the movement had. What should they have done? In case you haven't noticed the only time / reason the movement was cohesive was when Ron was running and had a chance.



I believe it was for the Obama win that they did it. You are a moron if you really believe that the CFL was working for Obama :rolleyes:

Timothy
11-05-2008, 09:56 AM
I was saying it all the time, the LP should have picked Mike Gravel. That may have hurt Obama.

Instead people were starting posting here that Barr would win Georgia and then, by extorsion, the whole US.

Little strategic advise: Don't get too high on the prospect of winning and don't get too low when losing.

MRoCkEd
11-05-2008, 10:02 AM
That may have hurt Obama.

yeah, all of the 10 votes gravel got in the primary would shift away from obama and cause tremendous damage...

tsetsefly
11-05-2008, 10:09 AM
Of course we can revive the GOP, as long as we take it over from the ground level. This is the path Ron Paul's example shows can be somewhat effective.

+1, its about all the ground level work... joining your local GOP. I would like to see more 3rd parties succeed but I just dont see it with the current rules and I dont see those changing.