To those who betrayed the movement today

[Original_Intent]

The biggest disappointment is not the sheeple who voted for McBama, not by a long shot . The Matrix still has them, Neo.

Nope, the biggest disappointment is this: I came to this website 18 months ago and actually had some hope that this country had a chance. For so long I felt virtually alone, and it was SO GREAT to see so many people here that UNDERSTOOD, that had their eyes opened, that knew what I knew and felt what I felt!

Now a decent percentage of them are being asked to be inserted back into the Matrix, have their memory wiped. They are sheep not because they have been misled by the media, but because they have willfully chosen to be.

We were supposed to be the REMNANT, and too many of the remnant could not make even a POLITICAL stand for freedom, they succumbed to the fear-mongerers, they did not trust their inner wisdom. Most of "the populace" are pretty much zombies, they do their jobs, they get their SOMA in whatever form, they are herded like cattle and have little more awareness of what is REALLY going on in the world than cattle. I expected no better from them.

But today I am losing those I considered my brothers and sisters-in-arms, we who knew what we were up against, knew the odds were hugely against us and were determined to make a stand, once and for all FOR LIBERTY AND FOR EACH OTHER!

I am sure you felt like you did what was right when you did it, but this vote can never be taken back, you did not even have the courage to CAST A BALLOT for your convictions.

You may never feel you have the need to ask your fellow brothers and sisters for forgiveness, maybe you were moles from the start who never believed. If you ever wake up to a sense of your awful situation and do seek forgiveness you will have it. But it will still never uncast this cowardly and unworthy vote which you have allowed yourself to cast today.

[ryanduff]

I voted for Baldwin.

But yes, it is disappointing. My neighbor who liked Ron Paul voted for Obama today. No convincing him to vote third party. He voted on the basis of Obama is less evil than McCain. WTF?!?!

[MsDoodahs]

Maybe those who cast ballots for McBama are not part of the Remnant.

Maybe those who cast ballots for McBama never were part of the Remnant.

Maybe they never will be....


eta: I wrote in RON PAUL.

[kathy88]

So sad to see the laziness and lip service. I expected bigger things here.



Viva la revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our numbers have shrunk but we have heart.

[sirachman]

The biggest disappointment is not the sheepl who voted for McBama, not by a long shot . The Matrix still has them, Neo.

Nope, the biggest disappointment is this: I came to this website 18 months ago and actually had some hope that this country had a chance. For so long I felt virtually alone, and it was SO GREAT to see so many people here that UNDERSTOOD, that had their eyes opened, that knew what I knew and felt what I felt!

Now a decent percentage of them are being asked to be inserted back into the Matrix, have their memory wiped. They are sheep not because they have been misled by the media, but because they have willfully chosen to be.

We were supposed to be the REMNANT, and too many of the remnant could not make even a POLITICAL stand for freedom, they succumbed to the fear-mongerers, they did not trust their inner wisdom. Most of "the populace" are pretty much zombies, they do their jobs, they get their SOMA in whatever form, they are herded like cattle and have little more awareness of what is REALLY going on in the world than cattle. I expected no better from them.

But today I am losing those I considered my brothers and sisters-in-arms, we who knew what we were up against, knew the odds were hugely against us and were determined to make a stand, once and for all FOR LIBERTY AND FOR EACH OTHER!

I am sure you felt like you did what was right when you did it, but this vote can never be taken back, you did not even have the courage to CAST A BALLOT for your convictions.

You may never feel you have the need to ask your fellow brothers and sisters for forgiveness, maybe you were moles from the start who never believed. If you ever wake up to a sense of your awful situation and do seek forgiveness you will have it. But it will still never uncast this cowardly and unworthy vote which you have allowed yourself to cast today.

The only person betraying the movement are people like you who attempt to create rifts within the movement by spewing such distate for people who have different strategies for success.
Yet again:
Way to bring everyone together. I'm sorry but people can disagree. The rEVOLution we all talk about is not going to happen by marking down a third party choice on a ballot, it is going to happen through long hard slow work at a local level which will culminate in policy changes and an educated public which can vote for the kind of president all of us here can support. Now I understand the argument for voting third party and it is a good one. The idea is that slowly the percentage of third party voters will cause more and more people to vote third party as third party candidates are seen as more and more "viable" by the public as a whole. However the reality is that until the public is educated enough to vote for something other than their wish to support a family heirloom party, or based on a catchphrase we as thinking Americans cannot realistically expect a third party candidate to win. It is obvious that no one thinks that a third party candidate will win, however while we can sit around all day and preach about what should be we need to think about what is. America's uneducated and easily led are electing our presidents, and until the day when we have made a major impact on educating the public the only thing voting third party is doing is allowing those who are uneducated to decide your president. It may feel good to fill in the colored dot or press that little square on the screen for a third party, but our fight is not that easy. The lesser of two evils argument is wrong, but the fight is much bigger and much harder than anything that is going on today. We must take the local offices in each of our states and educate every person we come across about the constitution and principles for which we stand in order to succeed that is the only way that we will truly make progress in this revolution. Please, no matter your personal views, your political origin or your level of disgust. Please do not attack those who stand with you. We all disagree on certain things, and some things we may disagree allot. However, all of us share love of country and constitution and we need to stand together.

[torchbearer]

The only person betraying the movement are people like you who attempt to create rifts within the movement by spewing such distate for people who have different strategies for success.
Yet again:
Way to bring everyone together. I'm sorry but people can disagree. The rEVOLution we all talk about is not going to happen by marking down a third party choice on a ballot, it is going to happen through long hard slow work at a local level which will culminate in policy changes and an educated public which can vote for the kind of president all of us here can support. Now I understand the argument for voting third party and it is a good one. The idea is that slowly the percentage of third party voters will cause more and more people to vote third party as third party candidates are seen as more and more "viable" by the public as a whole. However the reality is that until the public is educated enough to vote for something other than their wish to support a family heirloom party, or based on a catchphrase we as thinking Americans cannot realistically expect a third party candidate to win. It is obvious that no one thinks that a third party candidate will win, however while we can sit around all day and preach about what should be we need to think about what is. America's uneducated and easily led are electing our presidents, and until the day when we have made a major impact on educating the public the only thing voting third party is doing is allowing those who are uneducated to decide your president. It may feel good to fill in the colored dot or press that little square on the screen for a third party, but our fight is not that easy. The lesser of two evils argument is wrong, but the fight is much bigger and much harder than anything that is going on today. We must take the local offices in each of our states and educate every person we come across about the constitution and principles for which we stand in order to succeed that is the only way that we will truly make progress in this revolution. Please, no matter your personal views, your political origin or your level of disgust. Please do not attack those who stand with you. We all disagree on certain things, and some things we may disagree allot. However, all of us share love of country and constitution and we need to stand together.

How is voting for evil and enslavement a strategic vote?

[sirachman]

How is adding +1 to a sum of voters for a no-chance third party cantidate helpful to the revolution. I would rather spend my time trying to make actual changes. If you voted for one of the only two people who have any chance of being president you are taking part in the decision of who will be president. I do happen to like one of them better than the other, and I do believe that a protest vote is less important than taking the opportunity to help decide who will actually be president. I've spent vast amounts of time contributing to the goals of the constitutional ron paul rEVOLution and someone calling me a traitor over something like this is absurd. I will do more for this revolution by educating one voting age american on the principles of free-market economics and the constitution than this entire election will. I simply hope that the short sighted idiots that comdemn people on this site wont scare any people away that are actually doing something that matters on the ground.

[christagious]

I voted for Baldwin.

I think an Obama win will help our movement though; it puts that nail in the coffin for the GOP and maybe they'll go back to it's roots and Ron Paul will rise from the ashes and revive it. He is a doctor after all.

Even MSNBC today said that if all the Republican candidates including McCain lose today the GOP will have some soul-searching to do.


Here's to 2012!

[torchbearer]

How is adding +1 to a sum of voters for a no-chance third party cantidate helpful to the revolution. I would rather spend my time trying to make actual changes. If you voted for one of the only two people who have any chance of being president you are taking part in the decision of who will be president. I do happen to like one of them better than the other, and I do believe that a protest vote is less important than taking the opportunity to help decide who will actually be president. I've spent vast amounts of time contributing to the goals of the constitutional ron paul rEVOLution and someone calling me a traitor over something like this is absurd. I will do more for this revolution by educating one voting age american on the principles of free-market economics and the constitution than this entire election will. I simply hope that the short sighted idiots that comdemn people on this site wont scare any people away that are actually doing something that matters on the ground.

It's called voting for your principles. Not something I'd expect everyone to figure out right away. So, give it some time.
Your one vote for evil won't change anything either, just says... I support evil.

We have people on the front lines doing things. I'm one of them.
Don't stab me in the back while i'm fighting for our freedoms.

[Original_Intent]

The only person betraying the movement are people like you who attempt to create rifts within the movement by spewing such distate for people who have different strategies for success.
Yet again:
Way to bring everyone together. I'm sorry but people can disagree. The rEVOLution we all talk about is not going to happen by marking down a third party choice on a ballot, it is going to happen through long hard slow work at a local level which will culminate in policy changes and an educated public which can vote for the kind of president all of us here can support. Now I understand the argument for voting third party and it is a good one. The idea is that slowly the percentage of third party voters will cause more and more people to vote third party as third party candidates are seen as more and more "viable" by the public as a whole. However the reality is that until the public is educated enough to vote for something other than their wish to support a family heirloom party, or based on a catchphrase we as thinking Americans cannot realistically expect a third party candidate to win. It is obvious that no one thinks that a third party candidate will win, however while we can sit around all day and preach about what should be we need to think about what is. America's uneducated and easily led are electing our presidents, and until the day when we have made a major impact on educating the public the only thing voting third party is doing is allowing those who are uneducated to decide your president. It may feel good to fill in the colored dot or press that little square on the screen for a third party, but our fight is not that easy. The lesser of two evils argument is wrong, but the fight is much bigger and much harder than anything that is going on today. We must take the local offices in each of our states and educate every person we come across about the constitution and principles for which we stand in order to succeed that is the only way that we will truly make progress in this revolution. Please, no matter your personal views, your political origin or your level of disgust. Please do not attack those who stand with you. We all disagree on certain things, and some things we may disagree allot. However, all of us share love of country and constitution and we need to stand together.

I agree 110% with the most important work is in education and working hard at the local level.

However, please note the highlighted part of your post. Please explain and differentiate to me an "uneducated" vote for the two party monopoly and an "enlightened, strategic" vote for the two party monopoly.

You accuse me of creating rifts - I MOURN the loss of those who I thought were my brothers and sisters. You say I have disgust, and that I am attacking those who not only betrayed us but themselves. You are wrong I am saddened as I see my comrades (in a non-communist way) taken out not by bullets but by either wrong-headed thinking or cowardice. I am not trying to drive away, I am trying to get people (those who are saying they "feel bad" about how they voted) to realize that there is a REASON that they feel bad, it is called self betrayal, it is called knowing you did not stand firm, you cowered in the shadows and submitted while your chains were fitted!

If you coddle such behavior you only encourage it. If giving people the straight truth drives half away but wakes the other half up then much better than weakening the movement further by telling them "ah, it's all right don't feel bad, you did what you felt you had to."

[heavenlyboy34]

I reckon the people here who voted against the freedom movement/candidates were always just here for giggles and to piss RP fans off. I count them not among my fellow patriots. May they depart from us and continue to bow and lick the tyrannical hand that beats them and feeds them for the rest of their days like so many mindless sheep.

[JoshLowry]

This thread seems to indicate it's about 7.5%

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2712

The remnant is alive.

[Original_Intent]

I voted for Baldwin.

I think an Obama win will help our movement though; it puts that nail in the coffin for the GOP and maybe they'll go back to it's roots and Ron Paul will rise from the ashes and revive it. He is a doctor after all.

Even MSNBC today said that if all the Republican candidates including McCain lose today the GOP will have some soul-searching to do.


Here's to 2012!

I agree with you - a decisive Obama win will help us win back the GOP - I think.

But that certainly doesn't mean I am going to cast an unprincipled vote for Obama just to help that happen. I found the best man I could support for the job, and I supported him as best I could. When he was not an option, I chose the next best choice that was available and who my top choice also happened to endorse. End of story. I feel sorry for people that have to make it more complicated than that due to ignorance. My extreme sorrow is for the people here who don't have that fig leaf to hide behind.

[ArrestPoliticians]

Voting for a mainstream candidate isn't betrayal, its just ignorance. Some people learn faster than others. No biggie.

[Theocrat]

Some members on these forums are not unplugged. They are still captive in the Merovingian's train station. ;)

[mediahasyou]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6qG4yn-Ps

[Paulitical Correctness]

To those of you still here, I salute you.

Take an e-Newcastle, my beer of choice - on me. :D

http://www.drinkhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/btl_ale.jpg

[sirachman]

I personally did not vote for one of the two party duopoly. I am merely arguing the fact that this election will do less for our movement than educating a single american on the constitution, free-market economics, and everything else. You may disagree with the point I am attempting to make, and I can see your point. However I must argue that going after people for their vote this election is frivolous as this is not our final hour but instead our first. We will not lose or win today we will either stick together or fight against one another. Instead of focusing on who votes for who, and arguing back and forth we need to discuss how to spread our message and our ideals to more americans who have not yet heard what we have. It is obvious that you can point out the fundamental problems with voting for one of the evil two, and yes they are valid and true points. However, nomatter who we vote for today the most important thing is that tomorrow we are still as strong in numbers as we were yesterday and ready to make more progress.

[JohnMeridith]

To the OP,

You are not creating any rift. You are drawing the line between virtue and ignorance.

[sirachman]

I reckon the people here who voted against the freedom movement/candidates were always just here for giggles and to piss RP fans off. I count them not among my fellow patriots. May they depart from us and continue to bow and lick the tyrannical hand that beats them and feeds them for the rest of their days like so many mindless sheep.

July 08'
Lol?
Your 5 minutes in the ballot box cannot match the real progress made by all of us individually. However you cast your vote, the real progress will be made outside the ballot box. Your finger can cast one vote, your voice can cast thousands.

[trey4sports]

the only person betraying the movement are people like you who attempt to create rifts within the movement by spewing such distate for people who have different strategies for success.
Yet again:
Way to bring everyone together. I'm sorry but people can disagree. The revolution we all talk about is not going to happen by marking down a third party choice on a ballot, it is going to happen through long hard slow work at a local level which will culminate in policy changes and an educated public which can vote for the kind of president all of us here can support. Now i understand the argument for voting third party and it is a good one. The idea is that slowly the percentage of third party voters will cause more and more people to vote third party as third party candidates are seen as more and more "viable" by the public as a whole. However the reality is that until the public is educated enough to vote for something other than their wish to support a family heirloom party, or based on a catchphrase we as thinking americans cannot realistically expect a third party candidate to win. It is obvious that no one thinks that a third party candidate will win, however while we can sit around all day and preach about what should be we need to think about what is. America's uneducated and easily led are electing our presidents, and until the day when we have made a major impact on educating the public the only thing voting third party is doing is allowing those who are uneducated to decide your president. It may feel good to fill in the colored dot or press that little square on the screen for a third party, but our fight is not that easy. The lesser of two evils argument is wrong, but the fight is much bigger and much harder than anything that is going on today. We must take the local offices in each of our states and educate every person we come across about the constitution and principles for which we stand in order to succeed that is the only way that we will truly make progress in this revolution. Please, no matter your personal views, your political origin or your level of disgust. Please do not attack those who stand with you. We all disagree on certain things, and some things we may disagree allot. However, all of us share love of country and constitution and we need to stand together.


qft

[Original_Intent]

I personally did not vote for one of the two party duopoly. I am merely arguing the fact that this election will do less for our movement than educating a single american on the constitution, free-market economics, and everything else. You may disagree with the point I am attempting to make, and I can see your point. However I must argue that going after people for their vote this election is frivolous as this is not our final hour but instead our first. We will not lose or win today we will either stick together or fight against one another. Instead of focusing on who votes for who, and arguing back and forth we need to discuss how to spread our message and our ideals to more americans who have not yet heard what we have. It is obvious that you can point out the fundamental problems with voting for one of the evil two, and yes they are valid and true points. However, nomatter who we vote for today the most important thing is that tomorrow we are still as strong in numbers as we were yesterday and ready to make more progress.

I agree.

The point of my OP is not to tell those who betrayed the movement (and themselves) to GET OUT.

It is an intentionally harsh statement of YOU FUCKED UP AND DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW IT.

IMNSHO, giving sympathy or understanding for their reasons of their betrayal hurts them and hurts us. Why bother defending the indefensible?

[JoshLowry]

I personally did not vote for one of the two party duopoly. I am merely arguing the fact that this election will do less for our movement than educating a single american on the constitution, free-market economics, and everything else. You may disagree with the point I am attempting to make, and I can see your point. However I must argue that going after people for their vote this election is frivolous as this is not our final hour but instead our first. We will not lose or win today we will either stick together or fight against one another. Instead of focusing on who votes for who, and arguing back and forth we need to discuss how to spread our message and our ideals to more americans who have not yet heard what we have. It is obvious that you can point out the fundamental problems with voting for one of the evil two, and yes they are valid and true points. However, nomatter who we vote for today the most important thing is that tomorrow we are still as strong in numbers as we were yesterday and ready to make more progress.

Well said. :)

[heavenlyboy34]

Your 5 minutes in the ballot box cannot match the real progress made by all of us individually. However you cast your vote, the real progress will be made outside the ballot box. Your finger can cast one vote, your voice can cast thousands.

+1..That's why mass democracy is stupid. :p

[sirachman]

To the OP,

You are not creating any rift. You are drawing the line between virtue and ignorance.

You miss the entire point. Today is one day of the revolution and will not mean success or failure. If you outcast those you disagree with on any one decision along the way, then eventually the entire revolution will crumble. Have you ever actually gone out and talked to the public? If so you will remember coming across many who hold very different views. Hopefully instead of telling them that they were ignorant, you instead politely shared with them your views in hope that they would be enlightened. We should not treat each other in a different manner, just because you find one choice along the way ignorant, does not mean you should label them betrayers and shoo them away. It means that you should realize that while they may disagree with you on a point, they are closer to your ideals than 90 percent of the public you come across every day. Be polite, explain your disagreements, and in the end stand up for those you disagree with instead of silencing them or you will soon become the very fascists you hate.

[Anti Federalist]

Sirachman wrote:


The only person betraying the movement are people like you who attempt to create rifts within the movement by spewing such distate for people who have different strategies for success. Way to bring everyone together

Oh STFU FFS.

Movement??!! What fucking kind of a "movement" is this, if it can't hold the line for one fucking day, for one fucking vote, by your own fucking admission, WON'T MATTER ANYWAY???

I just got back from voting, and wrote in:

RON PAUL

The rest of you two party sluts and sell-outs can kiss my fat ass right in the county square.

Fuck you very much!

[sirachman]

I agree.

The point of my OP is not to tell those who betrayed the movement (and themselves) to GET OUT.

It is an intentionally harsh statement of YOU FUCKED UP AND DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW IT.

IMNSHO, giving sympathy or understanding for their reasons of their betrayal hurts them and hurts us. Why bother defending the indefensible?

Glad we understand each other. I am merely putting forth an attempt to quell the crossfire between those who voted o/m and those who voted 3rd party.

[JohnMeridith]

You miss the entire point. Today is one day of the revolution and will not mean success or failure. If you outcast those you disagree with on any one decision along the way, then eventually the entire revolution will crumble. Have you ever actually gone out and talked to the public? If so you will remember coming across many who hold very different views. Hopefully instead of telling them that they were ignorant, you instead politely shared with them your views in hope that they would be enlightened. We should not treat each other in a different manner, just because you find one choice along the way ignorant, does not mean you should label them betrayers and shoo them away. It means that you should realize that while they may disagree with you on a point, they are closer to your ideals than 90 percent of the public you come across every day. Be polite, explain your disagreements, and in the end stand up for those you disagree with instead of silencing them or you will soon become the very fascists you hate.
I will politely disagree with you and that's it.

[kathy88]

sirachman wrote:



Oh stfu ffs.

movement??!! What fucking kind of a "movement" is this, if it can't hold the line for one fucking day, for one fucking vote, by your own fucking admission, won't matter anyway???

i just got back from voting, and wrote in:

ron paul

the rest of you two party sluts and sell-outs can kiss my fat ass right in the county square.

Fuck you very much!



+1776

[RockEnds]

lI was out of town today, and I stopped to buy stamps. I was casually shilling for 3rd party votes, and the postal worker told me he refused to vote for Obama because he supported too much government, and McCain was just going to be another Bush. He said he refused to vote for either of them, and chose someone else instead. He said he had never heard of Ron Paul.

It gave me just a small glimmer of hope.

[JohnMeridith]

Sirachman wrote:



Oh STFU FFS.

Movement??!! What fucking kind of a "movement" is this, if it can't hold the line for one fucking day, for one fucking vote, by your own fucking admission, WON'T MATTER ANYWAY???

I just got back from voting, and wrote in:

RON PAUL

The rest of you two party sluts and sell-outs can kiss my fat ass right in the county square.

Fuck you very much!
I agree with this.

edit:my ass is fat too.

[Diana]

To those of you still here, I salute you.

Take an e-Newcastle, my beer of choice - on me. :D

http://www.drinkhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/btl_ale.jpg

thanks. Good choice of beer. :)

[JohnMeridith]

Here is my beer of choice as of late
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e399/johnmffd/SamAdams.jpg

[angelatc]

How is adding +1 to a sum of voters for a no-chance third party cantidate helpful to the revolution..

It gives the third parties ballot access in future elections, idiot.

Having different strategies for success is the reason that the Libertarians never seem to go anywhere.

[sirachman]

Fuck you very much!
To each his own.

[sirachman]

idiot.
To each his own.

[angelatc]

To each his own.

Divided we fall.

[sirachman]

Divided we fall.
I'm not the one doing the dividing. Much more progress will be made after today than will be made on this day. Goodbye.

[enjerth]

To the people who BOUGHT the primary candidates on the political not-so-free market, when it was clearly a time to SELL SELL SELL, I pray you realize the error of your ways.

Their power must be broken before we can succeed.

[A. Havnes]

I voted Baldwin. My family hates me now, but, well, they've always hated me, so it's not like big deal. I'm just glad I voted the way I wanted to, which felt amazing.

[literatim]

I'm not the one doing the dividing. Much more progress will be made after today than will be made on this day. Goodbye.

You just betrayed the movement.

[Danke]

How is voting for evil and enslavement a strategic vote?

Don't you see? TPTB will never expect this from us, and it will confuse and foil their plans.

Don't you understand?




(now can someone explain it to me?)

[ProBlue33]

It's sad how much hate, voting different than what people think you should, brings on.

There is way too much "Fuck You, traitor" being said today.

Rather we should say we respect your freedom to choose but we disagree, isn't that what democracy and liberty is all about?

[vodalian]

You are free to vote for whoever you want, but if you vote for McCain or Obama, then you have to also be prepared to take partial responsibility for the countless loss of lives, homes and the destruction of the dollar. Let's just say that I hope you don't have a conscious, but then again if you did, you wouldn't see politics as a big game.

[angelatc]

I'm not the one doing the dividing. Much more progress will be made after today than will be made on this day. Goodbye.

If you voted for a mainstream candidate, you deviated from the plan that Ron Paul suggested we follow, and your vote weakened our effort. That is division.

[Danke]

It's sad how much hate, voting different than what people think you should, brings on.

There is way too much "Fuck You, traitor" being said today.

Rather we should say we respect your freedom to choose but we disagree, isn't that what democracy and liberty is all about?

If you didn't support Obama, maybe there would be less hate.

[Mini-Me]

I agree.

The point of my OP is not to tell those who betrayed the movement (and themselves) to GET OUT.

It is an intentionally harsh statement of YOU FUCKED UP AND DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW IT.

IMNSHO, giving sympathy or understanding for their reasons of their betrayal hurts them and hurts us. Why bother defending the indefensible?

I totally understand how you feel...like a parent scolding errant children or something. :(

[Original_Intent]

I don't feel hate.

What is sad is to see people who are part of a movement in which certainly a central theme that we projected to others was that voting the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil, and the only wasted voted was an unprincipled one.

These were central ideas that we spread to try and wake people up. So certainly you can understand the disappointemnt when these people who clearly "Got it" panic at the last moment and do exactly what THEY THEMSELVES have been telling tohers for the last year or longer that they must not do at all costs.

I am glad that Josh pointed out that it appears that only about 7% reverted, and hopefully some of that 7% will eventually wake up and understand just how badly they screwed up today.

[angelatc]

If you didn't support Obama, maybe there would be less hate.

Socialists are always saying crap like that. "If you guys would just see it my way, we'd all get along!" "We have to put aside all this partsian stuff and get something done!"

I swear, nobody who ever utters those type statements has ever conceded on a single issue. They just use it as a lube.

I'd LOL, but it's not funny. It is maddening.

[Theocrat]

Don't you see? TPTB will never expect this from us, and it will confuse and foil their plans.

Don't you understand?




(now can someone explain it to me?)

Yeah, it's like when the affirmative derivatives are exchanged in a global spectral field, then the travel of Watts will function on constant tangents. This results in a quadraphonic stimulus of broken particles falling upon spaghetti spools in a weighted average tundrum of epic proportions. Thus, the vox populi accelerates in faint decibels while the rotational inertia of galactic reticulum is abated under severe pressure of total cataclysmic sporadic tertiary time fragments of human potential.

I hope that clears up any confusion!

[Original_Intent]

If you voted for a mainstream candidate, you deviated from the plan that Ron Paul suggested we follow, and your vote weakened our effort. That is division.

This. It can't be put any more briefly or clearly.

[dawnbt]

Baldwin vote here plus drafted two last minute Baldwin voters!!

[Danke]

Yeah, it's like when the affirmative derivatives are exchanged in a global spectral field, then the travel of Watts will function on constant tangents. This results in a quadraphonic stimulus of broken particles falling upon spaghetti spools in a weighted average tundrum of epic proportions. Thus, the vox populi accelerates in faint decibels while the rotational inertia of galactic reticulum is abated under severe pressure of total cataclysmic sporadic tertiary time fragments of human potential.

I hope that clears up any confusion!

Most indubitably!

[mitty]

The biggest disappointment is not the sheeple who voted for McBama, not by a long shot . The Matrix still has them, Neo.

Nope, the biggest disappointment is this: I came to this website 18 months ago and actually had some hope that this country had a chance. For so long I felt virtually alone, and it was SO GREAT to see so many people here that UNDERSTOOD, that had their eyes opened, that knew what I knew and felt what I felt!

Now a decent percentage of them are being asked to be inserted back into the Matrix, have their memory wiped. They are sheep not because they have been misled by the media, but because they have willfully chosen to be.

We were supposed to be the REMNANT, and too many of the remnant could not make even a POLITICAL stand for freedom, they succumbed to the fear-mongerers, they did not trust their inner wisdom. Most of "the populace" are pretty much zombies, they do their jobs, they get their SOMA in whatever form, they are herded like cattle and have little more awareness of what is REALLY going on in the world than cattle. I expected no better from them.

But today I am losing those I considered my brothers and sisters-in-arms, we who knew what we were up against, knew the odds were hugely against us and were determined to make a stand, once and for all FOR LIBERTY AND FOR EACH OTHER!

I am sure you felt like you did what was right when you did it, but this vote can never be taken back, you did not even have the courage to CAST A BALLOT for your convictions.

You may never feel you have the need to ask your fellow brothers and sisters for forgiveness, maybe you were moles from the start who never believed. If you ever wake up to a sense of your awful situation and do seek forgiveness you will have it. But it will still never uncast this cowardly and unworthy vote which you have allowed yourself to cast today.

holy crap!

+10000000000000000

[josephadel_3]

Come on, guy. People can vote for whoever they want. That doesn't make them sheep. Most of them are, but for different reasons. Supporting liberty means supporting dissent among movements and everywhere.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am fairly convinced now that third parties won't get anywhere. I fully intend to remain in the GOP , like my leader Ron Paul, who has NOT stepped out of the Republican Party..who REMAINS in congress, and work to change hearts and minds within my party. When Dr. Paul resigns from the Republican Party..and either starts his own third party or joins another third party I will follow. TONES

[angelatc]

Come on, guy. People can vote for whoever they want. That doesn't make them sheep. Most of them are, but for different reasons. Supporting liberty means supporting dissent among movements and everywhere.

Supporting the movement is the only chance we have to succeed. This is exactly why the GOP and the DNC have millions of voters, and the Libertarians never do better than 5%.

I find it hard to believe that if you and yours couldn't even find a single 3rd party candidate to support in this 7th circle of hell election that you'll ever be much use to the C4L.

It's not like Ron Paul said "Vote For Baldwin!" He said "Vote third party, or don't vote!" but you couldn't even stomach that? You couldn't bear to vote for anybody except one of the two most dangerous candidates available? Even though your vote for them meant absolutely nothing to them?

WTF is wrong with you?

[enjerth]

I am fairly convinced now that third parties won't get anywhere. I fully intend to remain in the GOP , like my leader Ron Paul, who has NOT stepped out of the Republican Party..who REMAINS in congress, and work to change hearts and minds within my party. When Dr. Paul resigns from the Republican Party..and either starts his own third party or joins another third party I will follow. TONES

That's exactly what I intend to do.

But as surely as Ron Paul did not vote for the Republican nominee, neither did I.

Just because you haven't left the party doesn't mean you have to vote for their candidates.

[vodalian]

Come on, guy. People can vote for whoever they want. That doesn't make them sheep. Most of them are, but for different reasons. Supporting liberty means supporting dissent among movements and everywhere.

Of course they can vote for whoever they want, they will just have to accept the consequences of their actions, and those consequences include, but aren't limited to: war/murder, homelessness, loss of liberty, the destruction of our dollar and possibly even the destruction of America. They have the liberty to vote for whoever they want and we have the liberty to speak our mind about them intentionally casting a vote which will further destroy this country as we know it.

[Original_Intent]

I am fairly convinced now that third parties won't get anywhere. I fully intend to remain in the GOP , like my leader Ron Paul, who has NOT stepped out of the Republican Party..who REMAINS in congress, and work to change hearts and minds within my party. When Dr. Paul resigns from the Republican Party..and either starts his own third party or joins another third party I will follow. TONES

You can remain in the GOP and still vote your conscience, I hope.

I hope Ron Paul remaining in the GOP does not mean he felt an obligation to vote for McCain.

C'mon Tones you know and I know that Ron Paul could not and would not do that, he openly stated that he could not support his own party's candidate because of his principles.

DO NOT DARE invoke the name of Ron Paul as some kind of excuse for voting McCain. Certainly it is wise to continue to work within the GOP as Ron Paul has, I certainly am not arguing otherwise - but when you walk into that voting booth that is not about "working within the party", that is you, your conscience and a ballot. Working within the GOP is no excuse for voting for McCain, and if you are going to try to use Ron Paul as an example to defend YOUR indefensible actions then you should be prepared to walk his walk.

[alaric]

It's sad how much hate, voting different than what people think you should, brings on.

There is way too much "Fuck You, traitor" being said today.

Rather we should say we respect your freedom to choose but we disagree, isn't that what democracy and liberty is all about?

something you haven't considered: obama has been saying FU to all of America!

[SeanEdwards]

How is adding +1 to a sum of voters for a no-chance third party cantidate helpful to the revolution.

In California where I live, Ron Paul is an official write in candidate, so presumably his votes will be counted and reported by the secretary of state. That's enough of a win for me in terms of the presidential race. Maybe that number of write-in votes will be surprisingly large and attract media attention, and that would certainly be "helpful to the revolution".

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I wrote in Ron Paul and voted Libertarian any time I could.

[TastyWheat]

I agree with you - a decisive Obama win will help us win back the GOP - I think.
Not if we're joined with Canada and Mexico.

[123tim]

Original_Intent,

I voted for Baldwin today. (A write-in in PA)
I regret not writing in Ron Paul.

I'm still with you. It looks like there still are others as well.

[The_Orlonater]

I voted for Barr, stronger LP for the win! :)

And a big fuck you to everyone who calls me a traitor.

[sevin]

Now I understand the argument for voting third party and it is a good one. The idea is that slowly the percentage of third party voters will cause more and more people to vote third party as third party candidates are seen as more and more "viable" by the public as a whole. However the reality is that until the public is educated enough to vote for something other than their wish to support a family heirloom party, or based on a catchphrase we as thinking Americans cannot realistically expect a third party candidate to win.

The REAL reality is, if there is never a third party candidate with a good chance at winning, it is because people like you refuse to vote third party.

You say there won't be a major third party until the public is more educated. Well, they won't start learning about third parties until we all stand together and vote third party! Maybe then there would eventually be enough of us to have an impact and people would take notice and start learning. I refuse to be a party of the problem.

Okay, gonna try and calm myself down now...

[sevin]

How is adding +1 to a sum of voters for a no-chance third party candidate helpful to the revolution?

How is adding +1 to a sum of voters for a 100%-chance furtherance of socialism helpful to the revolution!?!?

[SnappleLlama]

I wrote in Ron Paul and voted Libertarian any time I could.

Same here. I'm going to have a good cry tonight, as none of my candidates are going to win. :(

[SML]

Voted for Barr today. Still "with you" even though I'm not posting right now.

[Cleaner44]

I wrote in Ron Paul and voted Libertarian any time I could.

Hell yeah, me too.

I think any vote other than McBama is respectable. Baldwin, Barr whatever, at least it is not the lesser of two evils nonsense.

[DougBinNY]

The biggest disappointment is not the sheeple who voted for McBama, not by a long shot . The Matrix still has them, Neo.

Nope, the biggest disappointment is this: I came to this website 18 months ago and actually had some hope that this country had a chance. For so long I felt virtually alone, and it was SO GREAT to see so many people here that UNDERSTOOD, that had their eyes opened, that knew what I knew and felt what I felt!

Now a decent percentage of them are being asked to be inserted back into the Matrix, have their memory wiped. They are sheep not because they have been misled by the media, but because they have willfully chosen to be.

We were supposed to be the REMNANT, and too many of the remnant could not make even a POLITICAL stand for freedom, they succumbed to the fear-mongerers, they did not trust their inner wisdom. Most of "the populace" are pretty much zombies, they do their jobs, they get their SOMA in whatever form, they are herded like cattle and have little more awareness of what is REALLY going on in the world than cattle. I expected no better from them.

But today I am losing those I considered my brothers and sisters-in-arms, we who knew what we were up against, knew the odds were hugely against us and were determined to make a stand, once and for all FOR LIBERTY AND FOR EACH OTHER!

I am sure you felt like you did what was right when you did it, but this vote can never be taken back, you did not even have the courage to CAST A BALLOT for your convictions.

You may never feel you have the need to ask your fellow brothers and sisters for forgiveness, maybe you were moles from the start who never believed. If you ever wake up to a sense of your awful situation and do seek forgiveness you will have it. But it will still never uncast this cowardly and unworthy vote which you have allowed yourself to cast today.
I agree with Original_Intent 100%. I' m disheartened to say the least. Voting for McBama is a great discredit to the movement, and I am whole-heartedly saddened. We ARE the majority, as Dr. Paul has stated on numerous occasions. If we all voted third party, we would send a potent message to those who would see us enslaved. If we cave - well, we send an equally potent message - that we ARE willing to be led around by that insidious ring in our noses. Dr. paul told us to send a message by coming together and voting third party. Here is a clip - it starts around 7:30 in. Please listen and think... I fear for us. This was not the time to hesitate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqOpeRnvvNo

[josephadel_3]

Supporting the movement is the only chance we have to succeed. This is exactly why the GOP and the DNC have millions of voters, and the Libertarians never do better than 5%.

I find it hard to believe that if you and yours couldn't even find a single 3rd party candidate to support in this 7th circle of hell election that you'll ever be much use to the C4L.

It's not like Ron Paul said "Vote For Baldwin!" He said "Vote third party, or don't vote!" but you couldn't even stomach that? You couldn't bear to vote for anybody except one of the two most dangerous candidates available? Even though your vote for them meant absolutely nothing to them?

WTF is wrong with you?

No WTF is wrong with you is a more appropriate question to ask. I voted for Nader. I was merely suggesting we should be open to different opinions instead of calling those with different opinions betrayers of the freedom movement. Because to do so is to go against liberty. Where in my post was the implication that people should only vote Demonican or Republicrat? I was merely being supportive of their choice. I wasn't recommending voting for McBama.

[Austin]

Fuuuuuuuck. :(

[josephadel_3]

Of course they can vote for whoever they want, they will just have to accept the consequences of their actions, and those consequences include, but aren't limited to: war/murder, homelessness, loss of liberty, the destruction of our dollar and possibly even the destruction of America. They have the liberty to vote for whoever they want and we have the liberty to speak our mind about them intentionally casting a vote which will further destroy this country as we know it.

Right, they still have the freedom to vote as they choose. The consequences of a McBama victory affect everyone, not just their supporters.

[Nathan Hale]

The biggest disappointment is not the sheeple who voted for McBama, not by a long shot . The Matrix still has them, Neo.

Can we stop with the Matrix stuff? Honestly, it's getting retarded.

[torchbearer]

Can we stop with the Matrix stuff? Honestly, it's getting retarded.

It is an accurate description.
But if you want to go classical, we can use Plato's cave for analogies if you like.
Anyone who lives in a fox news/cable news reality... is living in a matrix.
Don't have a clue what's going on around them.. and vote the way the tube tells them to vote.

Matrix references may be getting old to you... but it never will for me. Its the perfects description... or Plato's cave.

[-lotus-]

i wrote in Ron Paul/Gail Lightfoot in California. I walked home feeling pretty good. :)

[LinuxUser269]

I voted Paul in the primary! I gave my hard earned money!I spent a year campaigning for Paul!I voted against Jhon Mclame!

[dude58677]

The biggest disappointment is not the sheeple who voted for McBama, not by a long shot . The Matrix still has them, Neo.

Nope, the biggest disappointment is this: I came to this website 18 months ago and actually had some hope that this country had a chance. For so long I felt virtually alone, and it was SO GREAT to see so many people here that UNDERSTOOD, that had their eyes opened, that knew what I knew and felt what I felt!

Now a decent percentage of them are being asked to be inserted back into the Matrix, have their memory wiped. They are sheep not because they have been misled by the media, but because they have willfully chosen to be.

We were supposed to be the REMNANT, and too many of the remnant could not make even a POLITICAL stand for freedom, they succumbed to the fear-mongerers, they did not trust their inner wisdom. Most of "the populace" are pretty much zombies, they do their jobs, they get their SOMA in whatever form, they are herded like cattle and have little more awareness of what is REALLY going on in the world than cattle. I expected no better from them.

But today I am losing those I considered my brothers and sisters-in-arms, we who knew what we were up against, knew the odds were hugely against us and were determined to make a stand, once and for all FOR LIBERTY AND FOR EACH OTHER!

I am sure you felt like you did what was right when you did it, but this vote can never be taken back, you did not even have the courage to CAST A BALLOT for your convictions.

You may never feel you have the need to ask your fellow brothers and sisters for forgiveness, maybe you were moles from the start who never believed. If you ever wake up to a sense of your awful situation and do seek forgiveness you will have it. But it will still never uncast this cowardly and unworthy vote which you have allowed yourself to cast today.



I voted for the man who started it all: Ron Paul write in.:D

[hopeforamerica]

Here is how a true patriot voted today....

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Editorial-Page.htm?InfoNo=040765

Simply awesome

[Elwar]

The only person betraying the movement are people like you who attempt to create rifts within the movement by spewing such distate for people who have different strategies for success.

My strategy is to campaign and fund the person who will take away the most freedoms and liberties.

Hold on, you may be thinking this is the complete opposite of what I should be doing...but that's the beauty of it...this is what THEY think as well...see where I'm going with this?

Me neither.

[Nathan Hale]

It is an accurate description.
But if you want to go classical, we can use Plato's cave for analogies if you like.
Anyone who lives in a fox news/cable news reality... is living in a matrix.
Don't have a clue what's going on around them.. and vote the way the tube tells them to vote.

Matrix references may be getting old to you... but it never will for me. Its the perfects description... or Plato's cave.

It's not accurate at all. It's classic error to assume that because you believe a certain way that you're right and everyone who doesn't have your perspective on the issues is stuck in "the system".

[LibertyEagle]

I voted Paul in the primary! I gave my hard earned money!I spent a year campaigning for Paul!I voted against Jhon Mclame!

Does that mean you voted FOR Obama?

[torchbearer]

It's not accurate at all. It's classic error to assume that because you believe a certain way that you're right and everyone who doesn't have your perspective on the issues is stuck in "the system".

It is inaccurate if the 96% of the voters who just voted for Obama and McCain did so out of a indepth research and understanding and supporting of all of their policies, and not because they were the two people the media played in front of them... like the shadows on the back of the cave...
And thus, those two were their only choices... and they believed it. They believed any other vote is wasted.
Think of how ludicrous that is.. and how programmed that info is?
If everyone voted for someone else, someone else could win. So how can you say they won't win, unless your reality reinforces that thought.
The matrix.

They are stuck in a system. Willingly and ignorantly.

[Nathan Hale]

It is inaccurate if the 96% of the voters who just voted for Obama and McCain did so out of a indepth research and understanding and supporting of all of their policies, and not because they were the two people the media played in front of them... like the shadows on the back of the cave...
And thus, those two were their only choices... and they believed it. They believed any other vote is wasted.
Think of how ludicrous that is.. and how programmed that info is?
If everyone voted for someone else, someone else could win. So how can you say they won't win, unless your reality reinforces that thought.
The matrix.

They are stuck in a system. Willingly and ignorantly.

You make HUGE assumptions in the above posted material. Even IF people voted for Obama and McCain as a matter of any other vote being wasted, that's not a testament to people being trapped in the matrix, that's a criticism of the way we vote. The lesser of two evils dilemma is a VIABLE problem, because our way of voting creates it. It's not, however, evidence that people are in "the matrix", nor is the fact that they are willing to vote for somebody without reading 200 pages of white paper about them. People have their reasons for voting. I don't see evidence that America votes based on ignorance. You just seem very bitter about your own opinion being in so small a minority. I can sympathize, because I probably share a lot of your opinion. The difference between us is that I give people credit for intelligent thought, and you seem to think that the general population is either stupid or deluded.

[torchbearer]

You make HUGE assumptions in the above posted material. Even IF people voted for Obama and McCain as a matter of any other vote being wasted, that's not a testament to people being trapped in the matrix, that's a criticism of the way we vote. The lesser of two evils dilemma is a VIABLE problem, because our way of voting creates it. It's not, however, evidence that people are in "the matrix", nor is the fact that they are willing to vote for somebody without reading 200 pages of white paper about them. People have their reasons for voting. I don't see evidence that America votes based on ignorance. You just seem very bitter about your own opinion being in so small a minority. I can sympathize, because I probably share a lot of your opinion. The difference between us is that I give people credit for intelligent thought, and you seem to think that the general population is either stupid or deluded.

Umm.. the way people vote... is guided by their worldly perception.
You are talking to a sociologist. not a internet basement dweller who pretends to understand stuff.
I've been doing this shit for over 12 years, both in academics.. and in politics.
People are indeed in a matrix... I was indeed in a matrix once myself... even as educated as I am... and being in the libertarian party.. still in the matrix.
My source of worldy info.. and thus the informer of my decision making came from the sources of info most common to me. The tube and AP articles.
I was a Fox News believer.... years ago...
They were the truth of all things... they told it like it is... and that was the truth.
I'm not bitter. I'm realistic. I understand the people around me. I used to be them.
I know where they are at... I know why they vote like they do...
It has been studied as a science. And like a science, those in power play them like puppets bound by the laws of physics.
It is our job to cut the strings. But that analogy is not complete.
We have to convince them to cut their own strings by rejecting the Fox News Reality.

[Original_Intent]

Umm.. the way people vote... is guided by their worldly perception.
You are talking to a sociologist. not a internet basement dweller who pretends to understand stuff.
I've been doing this shit for over 12 years, both in academics.. and in politics.
People are indeed in a matrix... I was indeed in a matrix once myself... even as educated as I am... and being in the libertarian party.. still in the matrix.
My source of worldy info.. and thus the informer of my decision making came from the sources of info most common to me. The tube and AP articles.
I was a Fox News believer.... years ago...
They were the truth of all things... they told it like it is... and that was the truth.
I'm not bitter. I'm realistic. I understand the people around me. I used to be them.
I know where they are at... I know why they vote like they do...
It has been studied as a science. And like a science, those in power play them like puppets bound by the laws of physics.
It is our job to cut the strings. But that analogy is not complete.
We have to convince them to cut their own strings by rejecting the Fox News Reality.
:bunchies: the galloping green ??? with teeth approves this message

[Nathan Hale]

Umm.. the way people vote... is guided by their worldly perception.

Yes, but their motives for voting are myriad.


You are talking to a sociologist. not a internet basement dweller who pretends to understand stuff.
I've been doing this shit for over 12 years, both in academics.. and in politics.

I'll base my opinion of what you have to say based on the content of what you have to say, not what you claim to be out in the world.


People are indeed in a matrix... I was indeed in a matrix once myself... even as educated as I am... and being in the libertarian party.. still in the matrix.

How convenient.


My source of worldy info.. and thus the informer of my decision making came from the sources of info most common to me. The tube and AP articles.
I was a Fox News believer.... years ago...
They were the truth of all things... they told it like it is... and that was the truth.

Here's the problem. You take in news and information from sources you trust. Other people take in news and information from sources they trust. Perhaps you don't trust the sources they trust, I don't trust the sources that most people trust either. But I have the humility to not assume that I'm right and they're wrong. I acknowledge that I place faith in my sources just as they place faith in their sources.


I'm not bitter. I'm realistic. I understand the people around me. I used to be them.
I know where they are at... I know why they vote like they do...

People vote for a million different reasons. They get their information from a million sources. But you seem to think they are all the same. Well, I was once "like them" too, and now I consider myself just as enlightened as you consider yourself. But I don't begrudge a person their choice of media or reason for voting because at the end of the day it's relative. It's just as likely that we're the ones in the matrix.


It has been studied as a science.

Really? Post a link that shows the science behind people voting for lockstep purposes and getting their information from singular sources.


And like a science, those in power play them like puppets bound by the laws of physics.

You're going to have to explain this last line to me.


It is our job to cut the strings. But that analogy is not complete.
We have to convince them to cut their own strings by rejecting the Fox News Reality.

Right. :rolleyes:

[sirachman]

Kudos:)