Horray for Jeff!

[LibertiORDeth]

Tonight in the chat Jeff (Libertarian4321) said that he voted for Obama, due to him being the "lesser of two evils". While I disagree with this and would not do what he did, I respect him for his right to vote for who he chooses. However, several of those in here last night were totally overreacting to it, by insulting him, insinuating and falsely accusing him of being a "traitor," "not being on the right forum" etc, along with various other trash. This is totally fucking uncalled for, and it is talk like this that divides the movement and doesn't get us nearly as far as we should. This bull shit had better stop or I won't be back.

[Jeremy]

I didn't say any of those things but I did ask if he would send flowers to the families of the dead Pakistanis and I asked if he would feel bad that we would be caged for not paying for Obama's programs.

[Kludge]

This bull shit had better stop or I won't be back.

Ooooooooh! We'd better get our act together!

[Conza88]

I don't respect criminals. Nor do I respect anyone who ENDORSES their actions. Voting counts as an endorsement.

If you vote for the status quo, (either two of the parties)... Congratulations! You've made it onto my imaginary vent list. *Round of applause*

Since the said person endorses theft, coercion and violence... Go cry me a friggin river should they suddenly complain about how they are being treated... The hypocrisy is outstanding.

:rolleyes:

[Nirvikalpa]

If you support his right to vote for Obama, you support the right of those who called him a traitor to call him a traitor. If you want true freedom without regulations, you can not favor one side over the other. Accepting freedom means accepting the fact people will always be for something you stand for, and people will also be against it.

[berrybunches]

I agree Luke, I appreciate you for posting this.

[Jeremy]

thank you

Ham, do you feel bad that we'd be caged if we refused to pay for Obama's programs?

[ClayTrainor]

I don't respect criminals. Nor do I respect anyone who ENDORSES their actions. Voting counts as an endorsement.

If you vote for the status quo, (either two of the parties)... Congratulations! You've made it onto my imaginary vent list. *Round of applause*

:)

True, but many are ignorant to our views bro.

If we're not going to respect 95% of americans who have been deceived / brainwashed, than this revolution is dead in the water already.

[trey4sports]

Tonight in the chat Jeff (Libertarian4321) said that he voted for Obama, due to him being the "lesser of two evils". While I disagree with this and would not do what he did, I respect him for his right to vote for who he chooses. However, several of those in here last night were totally overreacting to it, by insulting him, insinuating and falsely accusing him of being a "traitor," "not being on the right forum" etc, along with various other trash. This is totally fucking uncalled for, and it is talk like this that divides the movement and doesn't get us nearly as far as we should. This bull shit had better stop or I won't be back.


I certainly applaud his coming out of the closet (LOL!)

but in all seriousness, im glad he sticks to his guns and doesnt allow the verbal abuse to persuade him HOWEVER, how in the world did he come to the conclusion OBAMA is the lesser of two evils?!?!

[eOs]

Get outta here ya Obama thumpers!!

[Conza88]

True, but many are ignorant to our views bro.

If we're not going to respect 95% of americans who have been deceived / brainwashed, than this revolution is dead in the water already.

They DON'T know better...

A Ron Paul supporter DOES...

Which can be argued, is much worse. ;)

[Texan4Life]

I don't respect criminals. Nor do I respect anyone who ENDORSES their actions. Voting counts as an endorsement.

If you vote for the status quo, (either two of the parties)... Congratulations! You've made it onto my imaginary vent list. *Round of applause*


This is why I am NOT going to vote. They are both two huge douches.

yet I get bashed for not voting. (online and off)

No matter how, or if you vote, you will get still get bashed.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Before the election is no time to be coming here and expecting anything but ridicule for shilling for the one thing RP recommended we did not do.

[slacker921]

Hey, if you vote for Obama or McCain and come HERE and admit it - you deserve whatever bashing is thrown at you.

The only reason I can come up with for someone to come here and admit they voted for McBama would be to try to encourage others to follow their lead and vote "lesser of two evils".

[AJ Antimony]

Maybe try also acknowledging people's "right to overreact." If a select few are being immature, then ignore them. Simple as that.

[Conza88]

This is why I am NOT going to vote. They are both two huge douches.

yet I get bashed for not voting. (online and off)

No matter how, or if you vote, you will get still get bashed.

Forget the retards. You are right.

I might add though; for not voting to count as being respectable it's got to be a conscious decision of rejecting the system..

The apathetic crowd are part of the problem aswell essentially.. not caring.

You CARE alright, care enough to NOT sanction what they criminals do.

Great job! :)


Before the election is no time to be coming here and expecting anything but ridicule for shilling for the one thing RP recommended we did not do.

:)


Ron Paul is not always right.

Ron Paul vs. Hamadeh... :rolleyes:

Ron Paul is always right... ;)

[libertarian4321]

If anyone wants to know why I voted for Obama, I'll tell you- I had a good reason for it, which I explained in a post earlier this week (I early voted on Wednesday).

[hotbrownsauce]

I don't agree with Jeff's decision. But I am running my own life not his. I do how ever expect better from the Ron Paul people to not stoop to such trivial name calling. I thought we were better than that and can make better comments.

LibertyorDeth I am sure you know the brunt of freedom lovers who supported Ron Paul do not behave in this manner. You are welcome to stay because you know deep down inside you want to stay.

[speciallyblend]

hey he didn't vote for mccain,so he gets a cookie in my book;) hey he is helping the revolution by making sure the neo-con agenda loses in the gop,there might be hope to bring the gop back to it's roots or put a dying dog down,up to the gop.
libertarian4321

obama and mccain are evil and obama is lesser,hell he cannot do worse then 8yrs of bush even if he tried;)
though i voted for baldwin. i thank anyone that does not vote for mccain

[libertarian4321]

If anyone wants to know why I voted for Obama, I'll tell you- I had a good reason for it, which I explained in a post earlier this week (I early voted on Wednesday).

[speciallyblend]

If anyone wants to know why I voted for Obama, I'll tell you- I had a good reason for it, which I explained in a post earlier this week (I early voted on Wednesday).

no explanation needed. you did not vote for mccain enough said;) high five

vote for anyone but mccain

[haaaylee]

"That's one thing about freedom; you have to tolerate the nonsense too." - Ron Paul.

[literatim]

If anyone wants to know why I voted for Obama, I'll tell you- I had a good reason for it, which I explained in a post earlier this week (I early voted on Wednesday).

I don't care to hear your reasons for knowingly being a traitor to the country.

[Ozwest]

Ham, do you feel bad that we'd be caged if we refused to pay for Obama's programs?

Which program?

The 700billion bail - out program, or the trillion dollar Iraq program?

[Ozwest]

Crooks and liars occupy your government...

And you elected them for two years.

[Ozwest]

Sorry, Two terms!

[LibertiORDeth]

I don't agree with Jeff's decision. But I am running my own life not his. I do how ever expect better from the Ron Paul people to not stoop to such trivial name calling. I thought we were better than that and can make better comments.

LibertyorDeth I am sure you know the brunt of freedom lovers who supported Ron Paul do not behave in this manner. You are welcome to stay because you know deep down inside you want to stay.

The responses to this thread are showing otherwise...

[Ozwest]

The responses to this thread are showing otherwise...

Blood oath!

No time for namby - pamby shit.

[Ozwest]

" Liberty is telling people what they do not want to hear. "

[mport1]

I do not respect that decision. He has chosen to vote for somebody to rule over me and I think that is terrible.

[Coughlie501]

I don't really respect it, since Ron Paul said any of his supporters should vote for Chuck Baldwin, and same goes to those who won't vote at all, why not just for Constitution and show people that the third party really does have a base.

That being said some of these comments are way outta line for a political forum.

[Ozwest]

I don't really respect it, since Ron Paul said any of his supporters should vote for Chuck Baldwin, and same goes to those who won't vote at all, why not just for Constitution and show people that the third party really does have a base.

That being said some of these comments are way outta line for a political forum.

Are you advocating the Sarah Palin philosophy?

[Ozwest]

The Bush / Cheney philosophy?

[vodalian]

I just wish people would listen to what these candidates are actually saying instead of only the generic BS like "YES WE CAN!!111!!!" or "JOE THE PLUMBER LIKES ME!!!11". They both support war in the middle east, they both support meddling in the free market, they both plan on increasing government spending, they both refuse to take military options off the table when it comes to Iran and Russia, they both supported funding this perpetual war in Iraq and the government bailout and neither of them support the constitution. These guys are bad news, and if you vote for either of them, then you must also accept the fact that you are partially responsible for every single resulting loss of life and homes, just like those who voted for bush.

[Ozwest]

I just wish people would listen to what these candidates are actually saying instead of only the generic BS like "YES WE CAN!!111!!!" or "JOE THE PLUMBER LIKES ME!!!11". They both support war in the middle east, they both support meddling in the free market, they both plan on increasing government spending, they both refuse to take military options off the table when it comes to Iran and Russia, they both supported funding this perpetual war in Iraq and the government bailout and neither of them support the constitution. These guys are bad news, and if you vote for either of them, then you must also accept the fact that you are partially responsible for every single resulting loss of life and homes, just like those who voted for bush.

I couldn't agree with you more.

But...

Now the rest of the world has to deal with the sharp American voter.

[nbhadja]

Fuck no. If he wants to vote for a pro murder fascist communist then he is no part of the movement!

[moostraks]

It is sad that it just plays into the same trap that had it so Ron Paul was not nominated.

Until we break the cycle and are loud and proud about it no one will ever be in power that isn't a pawn....

[speciallyblend]

i didn't vote for either obama or mccain ,but beginning to think i shouldn't be part of this movement. i guess it all works for you as long as we all say what you want to hear,but the fact is we all can disagree but agree on the us consitution.
other then that i doubt i should be in this movement, maybe i was 100% wrong for supporting ron paul. you can be liberal and conservative and still be in this movement,but it seems the movement does not want us unless we are drones, so until we get rid of this train of thinking this movement will go nowhere.. but good luck alienating the movement, there are alot of folks in this forum that are doing a fine job at destroying this movement... you guys here are just as bad at labels as the people you attack.. Registered Republican aka Communist/Socialist Republican for Ron Paul

[werdd]

the obama shills are coming out today. Libertiordeath, libertarian1234, hamadeh, wheres kade?

Fuck both of the major party canidates. My loyalty lies with the message of liberty, and neither of these canidates expouse an ounce of it.

[speciallyblend]

the only person to blame for anyone voting for obama is??? John McCain;)

[speciallyblend]

the obama shills are coming out today. Libertiordeath, libertarian1234, hamadeh, wheres kade?

Fuck both of the major party canidates. My loyalty lies with the message of liberty, and neither of these canidates expouse an ounce of it.

i have met some of these folks,for you to call them obama shills is crazy,like i said maybe this ron paul supporter shouldn't be in this movement, you do not need voters or activists , you have it all handled, if your job is to alienate ron paul supporters, your doing a good job at it, you should get a job with the mccain campaign..

[nbhadja]

i didn't vote for either obama or mccain ,but beginning to think i shouldn't be part of this movement. i guess it all works for you as long as we all say what you want to hear,but the fact is we all can disagree but agree on the us consitution.
other then that i doubt i should be in this movement, maybe i was 100% wrong for supporting ron paul. you can be liberal and conservative and still be in this movement,but it seems the movement does not want us unless we are drones, so until we get rid of this train of thinking this movement will go nowhere.. but good luck alienating the movement, there are alot of folks in this forum that are doing a fine job at destroying this movement... you guys here are just as bad at labels as the people you attack.. Registered Republican aka Communist/Socialist Republican for Ron Paul

We attack people who support communist/fascist candidates who want to invade random countries and cause millions of deaths, destroy the currency etc.
How are we anywhere as bad?

The socialists want to hijack this movement in the same manner they hijacked the once small government Republican Party. We cannot let Obama/McCain shills hijack this movement.

[vodalian]

We attack people who support communist/fascist candidates who want to invade random countries and cause millions of deaths, destroy the currency etc.
How are we anywhere as bad?

The socialists want to hijack this movement in the same manner they hijacked the once small government Republican Party. We cannot let Obama/McCain shills hijack this movement.

The problem is, most Obama supporters DON'T EVEN KNOW that he plans on invading countries in the middle east in the name of "the global war on terror", which is beyond scary. It's like they have something in their brain which automatically switches off whenever he mentions his pro-war and anti-constitutional views or his plans to completely destroy the dollar. Just look at how many people actually believe that when Obama mentions pulling the troops out of Iraq, he means bringing them home, even though he specifically says that he simply wants to move them to other countries to continue this "war on terror".

[werdd]

i have met some of these folks,for you to call them obama shills is crazy,like i said maybe this ron paul supporter shouldn't be in this movement, you do not need voters or activists , you have it all handled, if your job is to alienate ron paul supporters, your doing a good job at it, you should get a job with the mccain campaign..

Why should anyone who gets out and votes for a socialist be a part of this movement?

[speciallyblend]

We attack people who support communist/fascist candidates who want to invade random countries and cause millions of deaths, destroy the currency etc.
How are we anywhere as bad?

The socialists want to hijack this movement in the same manner they hijacked the once small government Republican Party. We cannot let Obama/McCain shills hijack this movement.

you attack folks that believe in liberty. and you alienate ron paul supporters. the only one hi-jacking this movement are people alienating the people who supported this movement with their money/time and boots on the ground.
a reminder john mccain and obama are irrelevant to our local politics and to be honest with yourself, mccain winning does nothing for our movement. in the end an obama win helps us reclaim the failed gop. if mccain were to win then the ron paul revolution is dead in the gop, the only person to blame for anyone voting for obama is THE CORRUPT GOP and McCain!!! i will be thanking democrats for defeating mccain

[ProBlue33]

So American liberty only applies to Ron Paul supporters?

So American liberty only applies to those that vote third party?

If we deny follow Americans their freedom of choice and liberty, for whatever reason we are deep down hypocrites to the movement.

Calling another American a traitor who gave money to Ron Paul during his primary and then votes for McCain or Obama, flies in the face of everything the liberty movement stands for.

In the end these people true colors show up, liberty for people only when they agree with us betrays Ron Paul idea's.

I am for Obama now but if a Ron Paul supporter votes for McCain I would never call them a traitor, because free political choice can't be considered as such.

As Ron Paul said the thing about freedom is WE HAVE PUT UP WITH THE NONSENSE TOO.

[vodalian]

So American liberty only applies to Ron Paul supporters?

So American liberty only applies to those that vote third party?

If we deny follow Americans their freedom of choice and liberty, for whatever reason we are deep down hypocrites to the movement.

Calling another American a traitor who gave money to Ron Paul during his primary and then votes for McCain or Obama, flies in the face of everything the liberty movement stands for.

In the end these people true colors show up, liberty for people only when they agree with us betrays Ron Paul idea's.

I am for Obama now but if a Ron Paul supporter votes for McCain I would never call them a traitor, because free political choice can't be considered as such.

As Ron Paul said the thing about freedom is WE HAVE PUT UP WITH THE NONSENSE TOO.

Who is denying you liberty? I wasn't aware that anyone in this forum had that power. If you are referring to people speaking their mind about people like you voting for someone who is going to kill off more of our troops and destroy our dollar, that is not taking away your liberty to do stupid crap, instead they are using THEIR liberty to tell you that you are doing stupid crap and if you don't like it, you can ignore them. :)

[Elwar]

This bull shit had better stop or I won't be back.

door...ass...you know the rest

[speciallyblend]

Who is denying you liberty? I wasn't aware that anyone in this forum had that power. If you are referring to people speaking their mind about people like you voting for someone who is going to kill off more of our troops and destroy our dollar, that is not taking away your liberty to do stupid crap, instead they are using THEIR liberty to tell you that you are doing stupid crap and if you don't like it, you can ignore them. :)

well obama helps the drug addict in denial(gop realize they are addicted to big government,until you show the gop addiction, they are in denial, the only people to blame for people voting obam are the gop/mccain supporters

[speciallyblend]

Why should anyone who gets out and votes for a socialist be a part of this movement?

why should anyone that votes for mccain be part of this movement???

anyone that helps the mccain and corrupt gop see the light is ok with me,sometimes you have to wake the drug addict up and having mccain is not waking a drug addict up ,it is enabling him,so in the end a vote for obama is against mccain and helps us reclaim the failed gop party,if mccain were to win ,then it would be over in the gop in my eyes, so voting obama is helping us reclaim the gop. please explain how the revolution is helped by mccain a war mongering liberal big government winning and furthering the bush liberal agenda??

[vodalian]

well obama helps the drug addict in denial(gop realize they are addicted to big government,until you show the gop addiction, they are in denial, the only people to blame for people voting obam are the gop/mccain supporters

Wait, are you implying that Obama doesn't support big government? Let me guess, you also believe he is anti-war and supports strengthening our dollar? Believe me, I'm not surprised in the least bit.

[nbhadja]

So American liberty only applies to Ron Paul supporters?

So American liberty only applies to those that vote third party?

If we deny follow Americans their freedom of choice and liberty, for whatever reason we are deep down hypocrites to the movement.

Calling another American a traitor who gave money to Ron Paul during his primary and then votes for McCain or Obama, flies in the face of everything the liberty movement stands for.

In the end these people true colors show up, liberty for people only when they agree with us betrays Ron Paul idea's.

I am for Obama now but if a Ron Paul supporter votes for McCain I would never call them a traitor, because free political choice can't be considered as such.

As Ron Paul said the thing about freedom is WE HAVE PUT UP WITH THE NONSENSE TOO.

We are not denying anyone's liberty. Though you are supporting a candidate that hates your and my liberty.


I have the liberty to defend this movement and its PRINCIPLES OF LIBERTY, NOT FASCISM AND COMMUNISM.

[nbhadja]

why should anyone that votes for mccain be part of this movement???

anyone that helps the mccain and corrupt gop see the light is ok with me,sometimes you have to wake the drug addict up and having mccain is not waking a drug addict up ,it is enabling him,so in the end a vote for obama is against mccain and helps us reclaim the failed gop party,if mccain were to win ,then it would be over in the gop in my eyes, so voting obama is helping us reclaim the gop. please explain how the revolution is helped by mccain a war mongering liberal big government winning and furthering the bush liberal agenda??

Obama is the exact same.

BOTH McCain and Obama supporters slap Ron Paul and liberty in the face.

[speciallyblend]

Wait, are you implying that Obama doesn't support big government? Let me guess, you also believe he is anti-war and supports strengthening our dollar? Believe me, I'm not surprised in the least bit.

i said no such thing ,i think obama and mccain are the same but to further our movement within the gop,mccain must lose, where did i say obama doesn't support big government???

[speciallyblend]

Obama is the exact same.

BOTH McCain and Obama supporters slap Ron Paul and liberty in the face.

i never said obama wasn't different as mccain. they are both the same, but obama is not a republican mccain is,so we must have mccain lose.i voted chuck baldwin ,but someone has to make sure mccain loses.
please someone explain how you change a gop that thinks big government wins if mccain won??

mccain is like a drug addict and the last thing you need to give the gop and mccain is a fix.

[ProBlue33]

There are some people that supported Ron Paul, that just don't want to waste their vote in 2008, because he is not on the ticket.

Chasing these same people from the movement does not help our cause, have you considered they might never return because of these attitudes

[speciallyblend]

you people assume because i say do not vote mccain that i support obama? are you not doing the same thing by assuming i support obama over mccain? I DO NOT, i want the gop to understand they are not rewarded for their corrupt tactics. obama will be a blessing in disguise for republicans in the next 2-4 yrs and if the gop does not open their eyes by then? then i say it is time to put the gop where the whigs are in the history books as a failed party in 2012. the future history of the gop is up to them not obama.
the only people to blame for voting for obama are the gop and mccain

[speciallyblend]

There are some people that supported Ron Paul, that just don't want to waste their vote in 2008, because he is not on the ticket.

Chasing these same people from the movement does not help our cause, have you considered they might never return because of these attitudes

problue33 i totally agree with you. what ron paul proved was you can be from left or right and still believe in the ron paul revolution. i hate the cp but i swallowed the pill for ron paul and i applaud anyone that helps mccain lose:)

[rprprs]

I don't support voting on the basis of choosing the lesser of two evils. It is a trap the two major parties can only hope we fall into. When I vote later today, I will not be falling into that trap.

However, I also feel compelled to state that, in this election, there most certainly is a lesser evil... and it ain't Obama.

[speciallyblend]

I don't support voting on the basis of choosing the lesser of two evils. It is a trap the two major parties can only hope we fall into. When I vote later today, I will not be falling into that trap.

However, I also feel compelled to state that, in this election, there most certainly is a lesser evil... and it ain't Obama.

they are not voting lesser of 2 evils, do you people do not get it, if mccain wins the ron paul revolution is DWEAD IN THE GOP , WAKE UP AMERICA, mccain must lose so we can wake up the gop,if mccain were to win ,then the neo-con agenda has no reason to listen to us, wow so simple ,yet no one gets it. obama and mccain are the same ,except mccain is gop and the gop must lose if we are gonna move forward.
if mccain wins, I PROMISE YOU THE GOP NEO-CON AGENDA will flourish under mccain ,both suck ,but mccain swallows anything the gop feeds him,so we must break the big government addiction within the gop and if obama helps us do that within the gop, then it is a blessing,but if mccain were to win,then you all are lying to yourtself,if you think we can change the gop with a elected neo-con agenda within the gop,pretty simple..

[ProBlue33]

they are not voting lesser of 2 evils, do you people do not get it, if mccain wins the ron paul revolution is DWEAD IN THE GOP , WAKE UP AMERICA, mccain must lose so we can wake up the gop,if mccain were to win ,then the neo-con agenda has no reason to listen to us, wow so simple ,yet no one gets it. obama and mccain are the same ,except mccain is gop and the gop must lose

QFT

Here is Ron Paul supporter that understands with perfect clarity what needs to be done.

[worl]

Don't you people understand that both obama & mccain are bought & paid for by the same people, Corp. america, nwo, so there is no diferance. Our goal was to help the third party movement since we could'nt vote for Ron Paul.

[Conza88]

QFT

Here is Ron Paul supporter that understands with perfect clarity what needs to be done.

Your post count, should you reply to this will be 666.

Extremely fitting considering what you are advocating is the support of evil.

Your "perfect clarity" is clinically retarded.

Why Ron Paul Didn’t Win by Michael S. Rozeff (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff238.html)


"(3) The Republicans preferred running a weak candidate and having a Democrat win than running Ron Paul who might start a peaceful revolution. This is because they wish to maintain their duopoly of power and privilege. The Democrats and Republicans have a duopoly when it comes to political power. The fiction that the two parties differ (when they do not differ in any significant way) keeps Americans divided and constantly focused on trivial differences, personalities, trivial expenses, trivial personal matters, etc.

Meanwhile the two parties have such a hammerlock on election rules, campaigns, debates, candidates, contributions, and the media, that no upstart party stands a chance. They have rigged the system entirely in their favor. For a Ron Paul to have run and exposed this system nationally for months on end would have been unthinkable. And if he had won the presidency, the members of his own Party would have been attacking him in all sorts of ways to discredit him and his views."

I'm sorry... what were you saying about perfect clarity? :rolleyes:

Do yourself a favor; don't reply to this in the defence of Evil. Accept that your support of the status quo / ala make sure McCain loses is flawed... otherwise you FAIL along with everyone else with such idiotic delusions.

[ProBlue33]

Your post count, should you reply to this will be 666.

Extremely fitting considering what you are advocating is the support of evil.

Your "perfect clarity" is clinically retarded.

Why Ron Paul Didn’t Win by Michael S. Rozeff (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff238.html)



I'm sorry... what were you saying about perfect clarity? :rolleyes:

Do yourself a favor; don't reply to this in the defence of Evil. Accept that your support of the status quo / ala make sure McCain loses is flawed... otherwise you FAIL along with everyone else with such idiotic delusions.

Hmmm, watching my post count interesting, well eventually I would have to be 666 at some point anyway. So why not on this reply.

I can agree to that quote above. I am a realist, and I am fully aware of the higher control of the two parties you talk about, I know it's there. So I agree with you.

Guess what, it doesn't matter, this is just an interm problem, better to have, the better of the two evils then, because this is the reality that won't change at least in 2008. This is the fundamental idealogical difference I now have with many of my fellow Ron Paul supporters like yourself.

[LibertiORDeth]

the obama shills are coming out today. Libertiordeath, libertarian1234, hamadeh, wheres kade?

Fuck both of the major party canidates. My loyalty lies with the message of liberty, and neither of these canidates expouse an ounce of it.

I concur. However, I respect Jeff and his right to vote, and although I disagree with what he did he makes a valid point.
This movement was supposed to UNITE us all under the banner of Liberty, even though there are people from all backgrounds on here (With the exception of pro-war/pro-taxation) who all have (sometimes vastly) different beliefs and reasoning, and instead of picking on our own we need to unite and stand against the enemy, for I fear if we do not move fast our future is gone.

[Conza88]

Hmmm, watching my post count interesting, well eventually I would have to be 666 at some point anyway. So why not on this reply.

I can agree to that quote above. I am a realist, and I am fully aware of the higher control of the two parties you talk about, I know it's there. So I agree with you.

Guess what, it doesn't matter, this is just an interm problem, better to have, the better of the two evils then, because this is the reality that won't change at least in 2008. This is the fundamental idealogical difference I now have with many of my fellow Ron Paul supporters like yourself.

Yes, the philosophical difference...

One is supporting the status quo & TYRANNY...

The other is rejecting the status quo & is for LIBERTY...

You're in the former category. F-A-I-L..

[madcat033]

Tonight in the chat Jeff (Libertarian4321) said that he voted for Obama, due to him being the "lesser of two evils". While I disagree with this and would not do what he did, I respect him for his right to vote for who he chooses. However, several of those in here last night were totally overreacting to it, by insulting him, insinuating and falsely accusing him of being a "traitor," "not being on the right forum" etc, along with various other trash. This is totally fucking uncalled for, and it is talk like this that divides the movement and doesn't get us nearly as far as we should. This bull shit had better stop or I won't be back.

Fucking leave already! Voting for either of them is completely unacceptable. You become a willing slave. You perpetuate this foul system. You endorse imperialism. The blood of the victims of our aggression is on YOUR HANDS.

so fucking leave already.

[malkusm]

CHILL THE F**K OUT

This is much bigger than one election.

[Kludge]

Please stop claiming Kade is an Obama shill, it's embarrassing to read.

[ProBlue33]

Yes, the philosophical difference...

One is supporting the status quo & TYRANNY...

The other is rejecting the status quo & is for LIBERTY...

You're in the former category. F-A-I-L..

I respectfully disagree:)

We are still allowed to do that at RPF right?

[Revolution9]

QFT

Here is Ron Paul supporter that understands with perfect clarity what needs to be done.

You stupid fuckers. It is all over in four years and yer playing tiddlywonks on a 3D chess board like this is a walk in the park to suffer the upcoming ignomous crap gonna be stuffed down our throat.

You idiots touting Obama while a Democrat Senate and Congress are going to be seated do not understand the wisdom of your forefathers in splitting the executive and congressional branches into two fighting agendas leading to gridlock.. We in the liberty movement like gridlock. No more idiot legislation gets passed and it is hard to get money ponied up.. Watch out for the Democratic troika. The idea that this will lead us to an RP and liberty oriented GOP is hogwash. That is an idea only a shill would espouse and it lacks credblty from the get go.

HTH
Randy

HTH
Randy

[Roxi]

Jeff, you were on here almost a year before you decided to vote for obama, and you have done a lot for the movement, so Im not going to accuse you of being a shill. I also understand your "PLEASE GOD not mccain mentality because Mccain is pure evil and scares the crap out of me.

But on the other hand, Presedential power means nothing anymore, hes a puppet and one of the two evils is going to win, we already know that. Your ONE vote isn't going to make Mccain lose. By voting third party, or even not at all you are at LEAST making a statement, and possibly even making a difference by not endorsing bad behavior by voting for the lesser of two evils.

I can't even begin to comprehend the mind of the ron paul supporter who votes out of fear rather than principal.

But shame on those of you who showed your asses in the chat room... i wasn't there but i know how ugly it can get when ron paul supporters are pissed at you :)

[Conza88]

I respectfully disagree:)

We are still allowed to do that at RPF right?

You are disagreeing on EMOTION, nothing else.

No logical reasoning, or anything remotely based on truth.

Just like the SOCIALISTS do.

You're a fucken failure. And that is something we should be able to agree on.

[LibertiORDeth]

You are disagreeing on EMOTION, nothing else.

No logical reasoning, or anything remotely based on truth.

Just like the SOCIALISTS do.

You're a fucken failure. And that is something we should be able to agree on.

Damn it man, fear is a reasonable emotion, we all have it and sometimes it causes logical decisions.

[Kludge]

Damn it man, fear is a reasonable emotion, we all have it and sometimes it causes logical decisions.

There are no reasonable emotions.

[hypnagogue]

What a disappointing thread. A large part of what makes the mainstream political establishment so horrid is not only the positions they hold, but how they hold them. The, "agree with me or you're a traitor," or the, "agree with me or you're a fool," mentality is part and parcel of the political disease in this country. The problem isn't only being an Obama shill, it's being a shill at all. On this forum we have plenty of shills.

Hell, these aren't even people who really disagree with you. They agree with what we're trying to achieve, they've only disagreed about the tactics to be employed. The vitriol unleashed by the arrogance of believing you know exactly what should be done only serves to remind me that in many ways this is little more than a Republican sect.

This thread is an example of the lowest form of political thought. I'm reminded of the Bush rallies which responded to disagreement with the sadly frightening chant of, "U S A."

[JohnMeridith]

Fuck off to the OP.

[libertarian4321]

I don't care to hear your reasons for knowingly being a traitor to the country.

You aren't bright enough, or confident enough, to have a rational debate, so you throw out insults like a child.

No problem. The world is full of weak, unintelligent people. You aren't alone.

[rrcamp]

I think anyone who claims to champion the cause of liberty, while voting for a candidate who voted in favor of the government spying on its citizens is retarded. If you want to vote for Obama that's fine, but don't lie to yourself and others and pay lip service to the causes of freedom and liberty. Really the only thing Obama and the liberty movement have in common is the concept of change. But his record of voting over 90% in line with the democratic party shows this slogan of his to be nothing more than a catchy jingle for the masses.

"Yes we can vote 90% in line with the existing powers in Washington and trick a bunch of desperate, naive idiots into voting for our empty promises!"

I don't think he's stupid for voting for Obama, I think he's stupid for not seeing the inherent conflict in his supposed beliefs and voting actions.

[libertarian4321]

There are some people that supported Ron Paul, that just don't want to waste their vote in 2008, because he is not on the ticket.

Chasing these same people from the movement does not help our cause, have you considered they might never return because of these attitudes

DING DING DING- We have a winner!

Just as I have been saying, RON PAUL ISN'T RUNNING.

Given that, we all have to make a choice- your options may vary a bit by state (the lucky ones in MT and LA got to vote for Ron Paul).

In my case, I could:

1) vote for my choice of the lesser evil of the major candidates- in this case, Obama, because I truly despise McCain and Palin.
2) Cast a meaningless vote for Barr, who I think is a neocon, and who I know is an utter ass.
3) Cast a super pointless "write in" for one of the others that I really don't like Theocrat (my opinion, you may disagree) Baldwin, socialist Nader, or crazy socialist (McKinney).

I chose the first option as the best of a series of bad options.

That doesn't make me a "traitor", it makes me a person who made a reasoned decision among a series of bad choices. The cry of "traitor" may have made sense if RP was on the ballot and I voted against him, but when Ron Paul isn't on the ballot, its just plain ignorant.

Some of you may have chosen another option- thats fine- but I felt this was the best use of my vote.

[rrcamp]

That doesn't make me a "traitor", it makes me a person who made a reasoned decision among a series of bad choices. The cry of "traitor" may have made sense if RP was on the ballot and I voted against him, but when Ron Paul isn't on the ballot, its just plain ignorant.

No, you're not a traiter, you're just like millions of other Americans that keep us locked in a two-party (one-party) status-quo. Thank you for voting in favor of policies you don't believe in, thank you for helping to keep the same people and ideas in power in Washington.

[libertarian4321]

No, you're not a traiter, you're just like millions of other Americans that keep us locked in a two-party (one-party) status-quo. Thank you for voting in favor of policies you don't believe in, thank you for helping to keep the same people and ideas in power in Washington.

Again, I chose the best of a group of bad alternatives.

There were no "good" choices.

Would I have "helped the cause" by casting a meaningless write-in for Chuck Baldwin (who I don't even like) who ended up getting 0.08% (less than alan Keyes, btw)?

[rrcamp]

Would I have "helped the cause" by casting a meaningless write-in for Chuck Baldwin (who I don't even like) who ended up getting 0.08% (less than alan Keyes, btw)?

First let me quickly say I don't have strong emotions about your decision because I do feel like I understand where you're coming from; I faced largly the same problem because of didn't like my PA slate either.

Having said that, yes, I believe you should have voted for _anyone_ you truly believed in, whether it was counted or not. It would NOT be a meaningless vote as you like to say, because:

1) It would NOT be an endorsement of the status quo. What you did yesterday was to endorse the existing powers in Washington. At least be honest about this.

2) It would be a vote FOR what you believe in. Millions of Americans vote for the lesser of two evils like you did. Imagine what would happen if all of you actually voted for somebody you truly believed in... THEN you would have real change.

3) It would be the honorable thing. Look, in 2004 I voted for the lesser of two evils like you - George Bush. After learning and growing as much as I have these last years, I swore that I would never betray MY ideals ever again, and to hell with that imact it had. I can sleep at night, I did my part, and I can tell my grandchildren that I didn't help prop up the one party monopoly.

So yes, you would have "helped the cause" by casting a write-in for anyone you believed in.

[libertarian4321]

Having said that, yes, I believe you should have voted for _anyone_ you truly believed in, whether it was counted or not. It would NOT be a meaningless vote as you like to say, because:



Thats what I normally do- vote for a third party guy I believe in, even when I know he's going down in flames. I've voted Libertarian for years- Badnarik, Harry Browne, and Harry Browne.

But this year, there were none.

I didn't like any of the third party candidates.

Its a sad state of affairs when I can't even trust the Libertarian.

[rrcamp]

Its a sad state of affairs when I can't even trust the Libertarian.

Amen to that brother. I think at this point everyone in the L party is comfortable showing up to work, collecting their liberty donations and 1% vote, and going home more important things.