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trey4sports
11-02-2008, 09:57 PM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.
Now, having been around this board for quite a while i know McCain is nowhere near our belief set, BUT, helping out your local GOP has a lot of advantages.

First, its an open forum to talk with local campaign managers about how to run a political campaign.

second, its a great way to subtly display your knowledge of paleo-conservatism and gain respect withing your local party.

third, its a great way to help RETURN THE GOP TO ITS ROOTS


obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and im right.
I definetly dont do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.

Lastly id like to say the results have been tremendous, Ive talked to all diffrent types of the GOP and (even though ive only met one Ron Paul supporter) when you have a deep understanding of the problems ailing america and you can clearly articulate them, PEOPLE LISTEN. without even mentioning Ron Paul to people i can get a large amount of people cheering about the gold standard because they have that lightbulb moment.

we can return the GOP its roots with a clear articulated campaign of the truth.

if you havent already got involved with your local GOP i highly recommend doing so.

Kludge
11-02-2008, 10:00 PM
Very pragmatic.... Good post.

However, I'm interested in how you could possibly canvass for McCain without believing in the vast majority of his policies. Do you lie or change the topic to conservatism/libertarianism?

dr. hfn
11-02-2008, 10:02 PM
GOP needs to die.

Nate K
11-02-2008, 10:02 PM
this is a really good post, i hope people actually read it before 1-starring it.

rockandrollsouls
11-02-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm not sure I can condone your canvassing for McCain....I think a better way to go about changing the GOP is to join your local GOP group and work there...

New York For Paul
11-02-2008, 10:07 PM
I was at a McCain rally on Saturday in Virginia and was very close to the stage. I was standing next to an elected official in Fairfax county and we started talking. He likes Ron Paul and his respect for the Constitution. It was interesting, we were both in the front row against the metal railing and we were both listing the issues where John McCain was bad on. We spent five or ten minutes talking about Ron Paul and all of his issues.

This guy was also in Vietnam in December 1960 and went back three times. He knows about foreign intervention.

He was one of the first one hundred or so soldiers in Vietnam.

As the old guard in Virginia retires, we are going to need Ron Paul type allies in the GOP.

Gilmore, George Allen, John Warner, Tom Davis and others will no longer be office holders in the GOP. So there are some great opportunities in Virginia for instance.

Lovecraftian4Paul
11-02-2008, 10:07 PM
This is just aiding and abetting evil. A Faustian bargain hoping to acquire or give out knowledge with the GOP. Even if the ends justified the means, I don't see how any Ron Paul supporter could ever be convinced to give that rotten neo-con one second of assistance. We should be better than that.

trey4sports
11-02-2008, 10:09 PM
Very pragmatic.... Good post.

However, I'm interested in how you could possibly canvass for McCain without believing in the vast majority of his policies. Do you lie or change the topic to conservatism/libertarianism?


well, I'm just doing a GOTV effort, no persuasion.

but since im 18, i have a LOT of folks ask me why im doing what im doing, at that point I Then tell them how Ron Paul opened my eyes to politics and make small talk.

Usually ill include the phrase "personaly, im not a fan of John McCain but i believe the traditional principles of small government is whats best for this government."

its great seeing all the older folks who say, Ron Paul huh? ill have to read up on him.

Kludge
11-02-2008, 10:10 PM
This is just aiding and abetting evil. A Faustian bargain hoping to acquire or give out knowledge with the GOP. Even if the ends justified the means, I don't see how any Ron Paul supporter could ever be convinced to give that rotten neo-con one second of assistance. We should be better than that.

In the OP's (and my own) equation, I assume he doesn't see a win or loss in either of the Two Candidates winning. Thus, if he aided or worked against either, it would make no real difference.

trey4sports
11-02-2008, 10:11 PM
This is just aiding and abetting evil. A Faustian bargain hoping to acquire or give out knowledge with the GOP. Even if the ends justified the means, I don't see how any Ron Paul supporter could ever be convinced to give that rotten neo-con one second of assistance. We should be better than that.

life isnt always idealistic, i believe if a compromise can be made to further our ideas in the short-term future then we must make the leap and do the work to gain the respect. however a lot of people dont see it that way, and thats fine. to each his own

trey4sports
11-02-2008, 10:12 PM
In the OP's (and my own) equation, I assume he doesn't see a win or loss in either of the Two Candidates winning. Thus, if he aided or worked against either, it would make no real difference.

qft

RickyJ
11-02-2008, 10:12 PM
why im working my ass off for McCain...

Let me guess. You have a big ass and you think McCain is sexy so you want to look good for him.

Conza88
11-02-2008, 10:13 PM
*sigh*

How about you work your ass off for Liberty? Instead of tyranny? :rolleyes:

I support your activism to an extent... Just not in the name of John McCain.

Kludge
11-02-2008, 10:14 PM
life isnt always idealistic, i believe if a compromise can be made to further our ideas in the short-term future then we must make the leap and do the work to gain the respect. however a lot of people dont see it that way, and thats fine. to each his own

Honestly, I'm reminded of Barr's vote in favor of the PATRIOT Act, if you don't mind the comparison. Barr was kept on his committees for voting with the GOP and also allowed to insert "sunset clauses" into the bill. Even though his vote was "evil", his vote had no bearing in the overall scheme except to limit the power of government and propel his ability to represent liberty-minded folks.

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 10:17 PM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.
Now, having been around this board for quite a while i know McCain is nowhere near our belief set, BUT, helping out your local GOP has a lot of advantages.

First, its an open forum to talk with local campaign managers about how to run a political campaign.

second, its a great way to subtly display your knowledge of paleo-conservatism and gain respect withing your local party.

third, its a great way to help RETURN THE GOP TO ITS ROOTS


obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and im right.
I definetly dont do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.

Lastly id like to say the results have been tremendous, Ive talked to all diffrent types of the GOP and (even though ive only met one Ron Paul supporter) when you have a deep understanding of the problems ailing america and you can clearly articulate them, PEOPLE LISTEN. without even mentioning Ron Paul to people i can get a large amount of people cheering about the gold standard because they have that lightbulb moment.

we can return the GOP its roots with a clear articulated campaign of the truth.

if you havent already got involved with your local GOP i highly recommend doing so.


Excellent post... I am working my ass off for mccain at this point... and i am voting for him... for similar reasons.... but I love your tone and agree completely that his is the way to win GOP over.. I find they are VERY interested... they are simply ignorant.... in the true since of the word (not derogatory)

revolutionary8
11-02-2008, 10:18 PM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.
Now, having been around this board for quite a while i know McCain is nowhere near our belief set, BUT, helping out your local GOP has a lot of advantages.

First, its an open forum to talk with local campaign managers about how to run a political campaign.

second, its a great way to subtly display your knowledge of paleo-conservatism and gain respect withing your local party.

third, its a great way to help RETURN THE GOP TO ITS ROOTS


obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and im right.
I definetly dont do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.

Lastly id like to say the results have been tremendous, Ive talked to all diffrent types of the GOP and (even though ive only met one Ron Paul supporter) when you have a deep understanding of the problems ailing america and you can clearly articulate them, PEOPLE LISTEN. without even mentioning Ron Paul to people i can get a large amount of people cheering about the gold standard because they have that lightbulb moment.

we can return the GOP its roots with a clear articulated campaign of the truth.

if you havent already got involved with your local GOP i highly recommend doing so.

If your local GOP knows that you will compromise, what is their motivation to go back to their roots? I have had much more success in sticking to my priniciples and values, never waivering in my support for Ron Paul and his message. This doesn't mean I am head butting my way towards support, this means that they are paying the consequences of their weaknessess. I (we) have had much success. Being (passively) stubborn is quite different from being (agressively) deconstructive.
It has actually gotten to the point where they are begging for our input, our help, and our advice.:) There is much to be said for leadership, as opposed to compromising good morals and principles. R-E-S-P-E-C-T

To add, I have gone door to door for the Republican Party, but only for Liberty Candidates. This is how I have earned respect.

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 10:23 PM
qft

Hey... you are VERY wise for 18...

don't be upset by the crap you get for this stance...

tones and I are doing stuff here... you might be interested ... we are tying to get with like minded people...


http://wethepeoplespace.com

and

http://wethepeoplespace.com/forums/

Dorfsmith
11-02-2008, 10:23 PM
I have been doing everything I can to make McCain and the Republican party pay for how they treated us. I've been called a kook, nutjob, wingnut, terrorist, and worse by mainstream Republicans for supporting Ron Paul. I will never do anything to help them.

trey4sports
11-02-2008, 10:23 PM
*sigh*

How about you work your ass off for Liberty? Instead of tyranny? :rolleyes:

I support your activism to an extent... Just not in the name of John McCain.


honestly, i understand what your saying. And i did canvass for Dr. Paul Paul as well as write letters during the Iowa and NH primaries but canvassing for McCain has gained me a lot of respect within my local GOP and its certainly creating a large springboard for my ideas to be heard.

Personaly, i think gaining leverage within my local GOP will do much much more for our movement in the next 4 years rather than passing out Libertarian flyers only to see people throw them away. from a purely pragmatic standpoint its hard to refute that gaining power within your local GOP is less productive than canvassing for barr/baldwin.

ClockwiseSpark
11-02-2008, 10:25 PM
tones and I are doing stuff here... you might be interested ... we are tying to get with like minded people...


http://wethepeoplespace.com

and

http://wethepeoplespace.com/forums/

I wish all 7 of your like minded people the best of luck.

trey4sports
11-02-2008, 10:26 PM
Hey... you are VERY wise for 18...

don't be upset by the crap you get for this stance...

tones and I are doing stuff here... you might be interested ... we are tying to get with like minded people...


http://wethepeoplespace.com

and

http://wethepeoplespace.com/forums/

thanks, and ill definetly checkout the orginizations.

Kludge
11-02-2008, 10:26 PM
Hey... you are VERY wise for 18...

don't be upset by the crap you get for this stance...

tones and I are doing stuff here... you might be interested ... we are tying to get with like minded people...


Tones actively defends McCain and his positions here (which serves no benefit to liberty)... From what I've picked up, Trey is speaking to people outside the forum to give them information on conservatism while making a name for himself within the GOP to further his influence and, by doing so, the collective influence of libertarianism/conservatism on the GOP.

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 10:27 PM
I wish all 7 of your like minded people of you the best of luck.

Thank you... I will still be around here... but hope we can build from tis end too... we can work together in the future...

mrkurtz
11-02-2008, 10:29 PM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.
Now, having been around this board for quite a while i know McCain is nowhere near our belief set, BUT, helping out your local GOP has a lot of advantages.

First, its an open forum to talk with local campaign managers about how to run a political campaign.

second, its a great way to subtly display your knowledge of paleo-conservatism and gain respect withing your local party.

third, its a great way to help RETURN THE GOP TO ITS ROOTS


obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and im right.
I definetly dont do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.

Lastly id like to say the results have been tremendous, Ive talked to all diffrent types of the GOP and (even though ive only met one Ron Paul supporter) when you have a deep understanding of the problems ailing america and you can clearly articulate them, PEOPLE LISTEN. without even mentioning Ron Paul to people i can get a large amount of people cheering about the gold standard because they have that lightbulb moment.

we can return the GOP its roots with a clear articulated campaign of the truth.

if you havent already got involved with your local GOP i highly recommend doing so.

Great post! There's a huge difference between noted blowhards EndTheFed and tonesforjonesbones's irrational stances and trey4sports's well thought out approach.

We know that there still are fiscal conservatives and constitutionalists within the core of a lot of the GOP. Most of them understand that the "NotObama" approach to campaigning does not address that aching gap between the current crop of GOP candidates and core Goldwater/Reagan conservativism.

Bravo, trey4sports... keep up the good fight!

Anti Federalist
11-02-2008, 10:29 PM
Honestly, I'm reminded of Barr's vote in favor of the PATRIOT Act, if you don't mind the comparison. Barr was kept on his committees for voting with the GOP and also allowed to insert "sunset clauses" into the bill. Even though his vote was "evil", his vote had no bearing in the overall scheme except to limit the power of government and propel his ability to represent liberty-minded folks.

And those clauses have done what, exactly?:rolleyes:

LibertyEagle
11-02-2008, 10:31 PM
You're doing a great job, Trey. Keep up the good work. :)

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 10:31 PM
Tones actively defends McCain and his positions here (which serves no benefit to liberty)... From what I've picked up, Trey is speaking to people outside the forum to give them information on conservatism while making a name for himself within the GOP to further his influence and, by doing so, the collective influence of libertarianism/conservatism on the GOP.

Well you can portray us any way you choose... but I speak for myself but I am all about liberty message like it or not... I have gone over my thoughts about mccain many times... i am trying to keep obama out... that is it...

Kludge
11-02-2008, 10:31 PM
And those clauses have done what, exactly?:rolleyes:

Nothing significant that I'm aware of. :)

I suppose it was disingenuous of me to word it how I did.... :o

ProBlue33
11-02-2008, 10:32 PM
I understand it, but don't agree with it. It's an interesting tactic that plays for long haul (2012)

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 10:33 PM
Great post! There's a huge difference between noted blowhards EndTheFed and tonesforjonesbones's irrational stances and trey4sports's well thought out approach.

We know that there still are fiscal conservatives and constitutionalists within the core of a lot of the GOP. Most of them understand that the "NotObama" approach to campaigning does not address that aching gap between the current crop of GOP candidates and core Goldwater/Reagan conservativism.

Bravo, trey4sports... keep up the good fight!

Our positions are VERY similar except we simply choose to vote for mccain. Our position is just as well thought out..

mrkurtz
11-02-2008, 10:35 PM
Our positions are VERY similar except we simply choose to vote for mccain. Our position is just as well thought out..

There's a difference between believing something is true and reality. The layman calls it being delusional.

Bruno
11-02-2008, 10:36 PM
Take advantage of the last few days knocking on doors and tell people, "Vote for John McCain because he's more like Ron Paul than Barack Obama is." :)

Kudos for doing something, Trey! I understand your reasoning for working with the McCain campaign. Just know where you moral and ethical lines are politically, because they will most likely be challenged time and time again as you become more active.

Kludge
11-02-2008, 10:38 PM
I'm interested in how you could possibly canvass for McCain without believing in the vast majority of his policies. Do you lie or change the topic to conservatism/libertarianism?

Bump.

IPSecure
11-02-2008, 10:43 PM
Obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and I'm right.

I definitely don't do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.



The GOP made me feel that we were wrong, and that they were right.
Specific Issue: War On Terror.

This did incite my resentment for the GOP.

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 10:45 PM
Take advantage of the last few days knocking on doors and tell people, "Vote for John McCain because he's more like Ron Paul than Barack Obama is." :)

Kudos for doing something, Trey! I understand your reasoning for working with the McCain campaign. Just know where you moral and ethical lines are politically, because they will most likely be challenged time and time again as you become more active.

Hey... as you see somehow tones and I get shit for a VERY similar position... Im glad you get away with it... it is a good position...

You might be interested in here too it is not complete yet... but getting started///

http://wethepeoplespace.com

or

http://wethepeoplespace.com/forums/

parke
11-02-2008, 10:48 PM
I keep wondering if Im really going to pull the lever for a third party on Tuesday.. Ive been involved for since June of last year. Im a member of my local GOP. I fucking hate Obama... commie, america hating, socialist, flip flopping, shady son of a bitch in my book. He is surrounded by people that if out of this country, we would call an enemy.

I understand completely where you are at. IMO you are doing exactly what RP wants us to do.

No matter how much the GOP sucks ass.. There are only two viable parties to work in right now. If youre going to be involved, hopefully the GOP takes a beating and the people with the ideas and energy joining will be RP Republicans. Its painfully obvious that cronyism is the reason McCain got the nod in the first place... McCain sure isnt getting people enthusiastic.

I posted earlier that a Dem win could be strategically great for our movement. No battling an incumbent in 4 years and we also have a little over two years to gain more experience and produce either RP or a candidate we can get behind..

Great work. Congrats and I hope you get everything you want out of it.

smileylovesfreedom
11-02-2008, 10:50 PM
Why not help local GOP candidate(s) instead of McCain? I'm sure there is at least one person running who is a little more agreeable than McCain at your city/county/state or congressional level? You'll still get to meet people in the GOP and get even better experience on working at the local level. If you ever want to run for an office, this experience could be pretty invaluable as it will give you a firsthand view on how to run for that position.

Conza88
11-02-2008, 10:55 PM
Take advantage of the last few days knocking on doors and tell people, "Vote for John McCain because he's more like Ron Paul than Barack Obama is." :)


http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n173/DH103/GTFO-FAIL.jpg

Voting advocating people go around supporting the status quo & telling others to as well? :eek:

"Vote for a National Socialist; because he is more like Ron Paul - than an International Socialist?"

Truth be told... you're a fucken idiot then. There is 5 letters of difference between the two. Get that into your skull, ok? All of you who think Obama is any different to McCain. BAAAAAAAAHHH! BAAAAAAAAHHH! {Sheep} Go re-join the herd.. :rolleyes:

Kludge
11-02-2008, 11:01 PM
You're a fucken idiot.

Do you understand the irony of your signature's Josh_LA quotation with regards to economic liberty most libertarians (minarchists and most moderates included) seek?

Conza88
11-02-2008, 11:05 PM
Do you understand the irony of your signature's Josh_LA quotation with regards to economic liberty most libertarians (minarchists and most moderates included) seek?

Kludge, do you understand there is a difference? One involves the non aggression axiom + respect for property rights, and the other is the complete disregard for both...

Now, go on - what where you trying to enlighten me about? :confused:

Bruno
11-02-2008, 11:08 PM
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n173/DH103/GTFO-FAIL.jpg


Voting for a National Socialist; because he is more like Ron Paul - than an International Socialist?

Truth be told... You're a fucken idiot. There is 5 letters of difference between the two. Get that into your skull, ok? All of you who think Obama is any different to McCain. BAAAAAAAAHHH! :rolleyes:

Congratulations! You just won the Overreact to a Not-Even Half Serious Comment Award and the Unnecessary Vulgar Name Calling Honorary Recognition.

And from someone who I respected. Geez. Lighten up a little on your own peers, this is going to be a long ride. You're preaching the choir.

That type of aggressive, in-your-face and arrogant attitude is what I had to overcome to even look further into Ron Paul in the first place. For me and many others it was quite the turn-off, and a small minority of Paul supporters hurt the image of the movement despite how successful it was overall.

For the record, if not obvious by my posts, I have no intention of voting for McCain or Obama, and will cast my vote for the only candidate for me, Ron Paul. I don't care if anyone else considers it a wasted vote, or a "no-vote" or whatever, that will be my choice as I'm sure it is yours.

revolutionary8
11-02-2008, 11:19 PM
Why not help local GOP candidate(s) instead of McCain? I'm sure there is at least one person running who is a little more agreeable than McCain at your city/county/state or congressional level? You'll still get to meet people in the GOP and get even better experience on working at the local level. If you ever want to run for an office, this experience could be pretty invaluable as it will give you a firsthand view on how to run for that position.

This is what I am doing. :) I REFUSE to deal w/ the devil, but can also see that there might be districts out there that do not provide any real option.
If trey is in that position, in 2 years, perhaps he will have an alternative (and some support) if he can show how much he really does make a difference.
Good luck trey. :)

LibertyEagle
11-02-2008, 11:23 PM
Please be civil, folks.

The enemy is not here. How about lets not tear each other to shreds for not agreeing on every single point.

Kludge
11-02-2008, 11:24 PM
Kludge, do you understand there is a difference? One involves the non aggression axiom + respect for property rights, and the other is the complete disregard for both...

Now, go on - what where you trying to enlighten me about? :confused:

Most libertarians support removing regulations on businesses. His quote proves that he obviously doesn't care about people and would probably actively harm people so long as he could get away with it. He's the "Achilles' heel" to the free marketeer's rhetoric. With no FDA, no EPA -- no FEC even, Josh could release pollutants and add "fillers" to his beef with almost no chance of being caught if there's no government regulation agency.

It's not realistic to assume watchdog groups would be capable of actively monitoring (assuming the property owner actually granted them permission) every small producer.

Rangeley
11-02-2008, 11:24 PM
As some others have said, you can get involved in your local party without supporting McCain in the process. I guess it will only really be an issue for another 2 days, regardless.

Conza88
11-02-2008, 11:28 PM
Congratulations! You just Overreact to a Not-Even Half Serious Comment Award and the Unnecessary Vulgar Name Calling Honorary Recognition.

And from someone who I respected. Geez. Lighten up a little on your own peers, this is going to be a long ride. You're preaching the choir.

For the record, if not obvious by my posts, I have no intention of voting for McCain or Obama, and will cast my vote for the only candidate for me, Ron Paul. I don't care if anyone else considers it a wasted vote, or a "no-vote" or whatever, that will be my choice as I'm sure it is yours.

Yeah it was probably part over-reaction... I tend not to hold back on people who indirectly, or directly support the status quo. Since that is the current problem we're all meant to be trying to fight / solve...

I like the back tracking you've done.. "not even half-serious", well you may of intended it as such, but I can't read minds.. emoticons would have helped. From where I read, you were not half joking / suggesting anything. I read as is;


Take advantage of the last few days knocking on doors and tell people, "Vote for John McCain because he's more like Ron Paul than Barack Obama is." :)

What the hell do you expect me to contend that as? "Ohh that is HILARIOUS, yes... very good, very good!" :rolleyes:

Ok, well thank you for not voting for the lesser of two evils - I just find it highly irregular that you would, as you contend "jokingly"(:confused:) give advice about supporting the status quo... that is fail and I really don't care who you are. :)

And good stuff on the "no vote" or write in... that sends a much better message to the powers that be, than telling others to vote for McCain... RIGHT? :o

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 11:30 PM
Please be civil, folks.

The enemy is not here. How about lets not tear each other to shreds for not agreeing on every single point.

Thank you.... We will not survive as a movement if we don't learn to overcome disagreement with the things we agree on...

Kludge
11-02-2008, 11:33 PM
Thank you.... We will not survive as a movement if we don't learn to overcome disagreement with the things we agree on...

I disagree.

Rangeley
11-02-2008, 11:39 PM
I disagree.
It's that sort of attitude that allowed Hitler come to power in Germany.

Conza88
11-02-2008, 11:39 PM
Most libertarians support removing regulations on businesses. His quote proves that he obviously doesn't care about people and would probably actively harm people so long as he could get away with it. He's the "Achilles' heel" to the free marketeer's rhetoric. With no FDA, no EPA -- no FEC even, Josh could release pollutants and add "fillers" to his beef with almost no chance of being caught if there's no government regulation agency.

It's not realistic to assume watchdog groups would be capable of actively monitoring (assuming the property owner actually granted them permission) every small producer.

Yes that is exactly what he proves, he doesn't care about people and he would actively harm people if he could get away with it. That was the point of me putting up the quote; to show what an evil stain he is. Libertine / anarchist ftl. This was during our ancap debates in which he coherently displayed he does not value logic, truth or reason and twisted his position several times, just for the sake of argument. Fail indeed. I can probably remove it now; but there is nothing ironical about it. :)

As for your conclusion: Hahah, no.... In an anarcho-capitalist society, he'd be violating someone elses property & he would be sued accordingly. If someone died because he poisoned the food; then he would be a murderer and would go to jail, where he would work for his victims family, to repair damages including reparations etc.

Why can there NOT be a private regulation agency? :confused: One that tests products, and gets the seal of approval from the organization. It then allows companies products that have passed the test to carry the seal of approval. The company can market itself as the bearer of what is healthy etc... should there ever be a crisis or problem, infection - that gets passed the regulators, then that companies brand image is going to get SLAMMED. NO-ONE is going to trust them anymore, and they'll take advice from another company etc...

It is remarkably within that organizations interest to provide a label to products that are only healthy and will not result in accidents, or them being sued and their brand image damaged.

Can I just say.... ROUND of applause to the organizations you mentioned; they are doing SUCH a good job... just as Governments do... RIGHT?! :rolleyes:

Fluoride... all the chemicals in the water... EPA is AWESOME yeaaaahh, I mean - it could all be solved by full property rights - which have been neglected since the industrial revolution.... But nooooo, lets let the government agency regulate it.

:)

EndTheFed
11-02-2008, 11:41 PM
I disagree.

LOL :D

BTW.. I agree... and that overcomes your disagreement..

Minuteman2008
11-02-2008, 11:42 PM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.
Now, having been around this board for quite a while i know McCain is nowhere near our belief set, BUT, helping out your local GOP has a lot of advantages.

First, its an open forum to talk with local campaign managers about how to run a political campaign.

second, its a great way to subtly display your knowledge of paleo-conservatism and gain respect withing your local party.

third, its a great way to help RETURN THE GOP TO ITS ROOTS


obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and im right.
I definetly dont do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.

Lastly id like to say the results have been tremendous, Ive talked to all diffrent types of the GOP and (even though ive only met one Ron Paul supporter) when you have a deep understanding of the problems ailing america and you can clearly articulate them, PEOPLE LISTEN. without even mentioning Ron Paul to people i can get a large amount of people cheering about the gold standard because they have that lightbulb moment.

we can return the GOP its roots with a clear articulated campaign of the truth.

if you havent already got involved with your local GOP i highly recommend doing so.


This is good stuff. Don't let any purists or ideologues discourage you. After McCain loses, the GOP has to find a new direction. Let's make sure it's the right direction.

Bruno
11-02-2008, 11:42 PM
Yeah it was probably part over-reaction... I tend not to hold back on people who indirectly, or directly support the status quo. Since that is the current problem we're all meant to be trying to fight / solve...

I like the back tracking you've done.. "not even half-serious", well you may of intended it as such, but I can't read minds.. emoticons would have helped. From where I read, you were not half joking / suggesting anything. I read as is;



What the hell do you expect me to contend that as? "Ohh that is HILARIOUS, yes... very good, very good!" :rolleyes:

Ok, well thank you for not voting for the lesser of two evils - I just find it highly irregular that you would, as you contend "jokingly"(:confused:) give advice about supporting the status quo... that is fail and I really don't care who you are. :)

And good stuff on the "no vote" or write in... that sends a much better message to the powers that be, than telling others to vote for McCain... RIGHT? :o

All this over a lack of a sarcasm emoticon. Wow. I was totally joking and John McCain is a smidge closer to Ron Paul than Obama is, so in my two-beer mind in which the person replied, "Who is Ron Paul?" and a conversation started, it came off funnier. Things sure do get lost in translation over these here internets. My apologies. :D

Chill next time though when you are trying to get others over to your way of thinking. More bees with honey than vinegar, ya know? I'm converted, but there are still many more out there. ;)

Kludge
11-02-2008, 11:43 PM
Seriously Kade, err I mean Kludge

:D I can only dream.

Conza88
11-02-2008, 11:47 PM
:D I can only dream.

Aaaahahah, I thought better of that and tried to edit it out..

But you sawz it... :(

Kludge
11-02-2008, 11:48 PM
It's that sort of attitude that allowed Hitler come to power in Germany.

Hitler came to power with the aid of the Reptilian Vatican Assassins. He was born ~495 AD. When TPTB took note of his superb oratory skills, they beamed him up with layzerzzz (that's the Reptilian word for "lasers", if you didn't already know) and cryogenically froze him. They then thawed him when they thought he could kill the most Jews and thus give Jews supreme sympathy (and thus, influence) from governments around the world.

This was one of the first step "Teh Jewz" (Reptilian for "The Jewish [race, not religion] People") made in a concerted effort with UFOs to take over the world to put in place a NWO!


Edit: Of course, this doesn't even compare to what all the Masonic Order is up to.... The Reptilians and Jews are just a small wing of the overall organization.

Pauls' Revere
11-02-2008, 11:58 PM
In the OP's (and my own) equation, I assume he doesn't see a win or loss in either of the Two Candidates winning. Thus, if he aided or worked against either, it would make no real difference.

How very Sun Tzu (The Art of War) of you. To achieve victory one first must understand his enemy and what better way than to work for him.

"If you know the enemy and yourself you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle...Sun Tzu The Art of War"

:)

Join The Paul Side
11-03-2008, 12:20 AM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.
Now, having been around this board for quite a while i know McCain is nowhere near our belief set, BUT, helping out your local GOP has a lot of advantages.

First, its an open forum to talk with local campaign managers about how to run a political campaign.

second, its a great way to subtly display your knowledge of paleo-conservatism and gain respect withing your local party.

third, its a great way to help RETURN THE GOP TO ITS ROOTS


obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and im right.
I definetly dont do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.

Lastly id like to say the results have been tremendous, Ive talked to all diffrent types of the GOP and (even though ive only met one Ron Paul supporter) when you have a deep understanding of the problems ailing america and you can clearly articulate them, PEOPLE LISTEN. without even mentioning Ron Paul to people i can get a large amount of people cheering about the gold standard because they have that lightbulb moment.

we can return the GOP its roots with a clear articulated campaign of the truth.

if you havent already got involved with your local GOP i highly recommend doing so.


I see.......

Infiltrate them......

Suck up to them.......

Sleep with the enemy.......

And Boom! all of the sudden the decades of brainwashing disappears and they instantly reform to the message and common sense! :rolleyes:

I get it. Not. :rolleyes:

Dude there are better ways to support the R3volution and C4L without selling out. ;)

Anti Federalist
11-03-2008, 12:21 AM
Hitler came to power with the aid of the Reptilian Vatican Assassins. He was born ~495 AD. When TPTB took note of his superb oratory skills, they beamed him up with layzerzzz (that's the Reptilian word for "lasers", if you didn't already know) and cryogenically froze him. They then thawed him when they thought he could kill the most Jews and thus give Jews supreme sympathy (and thus, influence) from governments around the world.

This was one of the first step "Teh Jewz" (Reptilian for "The Jewish [race, not religion] People") made in a concerted effort with UFOs to take over the world to put in place a NWO!


Edit: Of course, this doesn't even compare to what all the Masonic Order is up to.... The Reptilians and Jews are just a small wing of the overall organization.

I thought it was "Joooz"? ;)

Kludge
11-03-2008, 12:23 AM
I thought it was "Joooz"? ;)

Nah, those are two seperate collective entities. If you're looking for the Joooz, they are the ones behind the "Titanic Conspiracy". My man's spreading the TRUTH though -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

Anti Federalist
11-03-2008, 12:28 AM
Nah, those are two seperate collective entities. If you're looking for the Joooz, they are the ones behind the "Titanic Conspiracy". My man's spreading the TRUTH though -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

Joooz and Atheists oh my.:p

klamath
11-03-2008, 09:03 AM
McCain will be history day after tomorrow but you young man will be in a respected position to change some minds in the party. McCain will never win with your work but your position to change minds will be greatly enhanced.

Aratus
11-03-2008, 09:09 AM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.
Now, having been around this board for quite a while i know McCain is nowhere near our belief set, BUT, helping out your local GOP has a lot of advantages.

First, its an open forum to talk with local campaign managers about how to run a political campaign.

second, its a great way to subtly display your knowledge of paleo-conservatism and gain respect withing your local party.

third, its a great way to help RETURN THE GOP TO ITS ROOTS


obviously, I think one flaw that we (as a movement in general) make is going in with a superiority complex and telling people your wrong and im right.
I definetly dont do that at my local GOP HQ, and its the fastest way to incite resentment.

Lastly id like to say the results have been tremendous, Ive talked to all diffrent types of the GOP and (even though ive only met one Ron Paul supporter) when you have a deep understanding of the problems ailing america and you can clearly articulate them, PEOPLE LISTEN. without even mentioning Ron Paul to people i can get a large amount of people cheering about the gold standard because they have that lightbulb moment.

we can return the GOP its roots with a clear articulated campaign of the truth.

if you havent already got involved with your local GOP i highly recommend doing so.

john mccain tacitly has handed her the good ol' g.o.p and a near to open road for running!

Aratus
11-03-2008, 09:11 AM
in 2012, the big G.O.P four could be Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee ...and Ron Paul
and not neccessarily in that order! joining the PALIN bandwagon could be fun and exciting!!!

angelatc
11-03-2008, 09:16 AM
*sigh*

How about you work your ass off for Liberty? Instead of tyranny? :rolleyes:

I support your activism to an extent... Just not in the name of John McCain.

I think he made a decent decision. Getting to know people in the GOP is important. I thought about doing the same thing, but i just wasn't ready to take my Ron Paul bumper stickers off the car yet.

123tim
11-03-2008, 09:37 AM
I really don't see how campaigning for McCain is going to help the Liberty movement at all.

Why would you endorse McCain (through campaigning) when Ron Paul wouldn't endorse McCain for very good reasons?

I know that we shouldn't blindly follow anyone (including Ron Paul) but I think that he had a good reasons for not endorsing John McCain.

We're supposed to change the party, it seems that the party might be changing us.

Just my opinion.
Thank you for yours.

angelatc
11-03-2008, 10:08 AM
I really don't see how campaigning for McCain is going to help the Liberty movement at all.

We're supposed to change the party, it seems that the party might be changing us.

Just my opinion.
Thank you for yours.

I see your point, and you might be right. But I think there is also a case to be made for changing it from the inside. We can't get inside unless we go inside.

A lot of the campaigning that the state level GOP does is for more than the President, too. And that's especially true here in Michigan, where McCain threw in the towel.

If he's working for McCain, he's working for the GOP, which is admirable.

RickyJ
11-03-2008, 10:08 AM
Thank you.... We will not survive as a movement if we don't learn to overcome disagreement with the things we agree on...

Could you translate this to normal English please. I am not a psycho and do not understand psycho speak.

angelatc
11-03-2008, 10:09 AM
Could you translate this to normal English please. I am not a psycho and do not understand psycho speak.

Do you speak bitter sarcastic? He is saying that if we can't bother to focus on things we have in common then we're not going anywhere.

mrkurtz
11-03-2008, 10:14 AM
Do you speak bitter sarcastic? He is saying that if we can't bother to focus on things we have in common then we're not going anywhere.

True, but RickyJ is pointing out that that particular psychotic author focuses on things we do not have in common.

trey4sports
11-03-2008, 10:59 AM
like a previous poster said, a lot of the GOP folks are simply ignorant, and i dont mean that in a mean-spirited fashion.

the GOP (average joe) believes in free-markets but simply doesnt understand the intracacies of distortion and intervention so they just tend to believe whatever Sean hannity or Rush tells them.

they need an alternative education on these matters, but in order to do so, you need their respect.

work within the GOP, because after all they preach "free-markets, and small gov't" from your podium you can influence and shape their beliefs.

time for me to head over to the GOP and shape some minds.

kombayn
11-03-2008, 11:46 AM
I commend you for what you're doing. It's the smart-thing to do.

EndTheFed
11-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Could you translate this to normal English please. I am not a psycho and do not understand psycho speak.


You are a jackass..

We are not all going to agree on every single thing. We should not rip the movement apart and ruin people off who aho agree with us at least to a degree..

Only accepting people into the movement who completely agree with you will leave you with a group of one... that is you.

There how is that for english...

Jack ass..

EndTheFed
11-03-2008, 11:54 AM
Do you speak bitter sarcastic? He is saying that if we can't bother to focus on things we have in common then we're not going anywhere.

Thank you...

EndTheFed
11-03-2008, 11:55 AM
True, but RickyJ is pointing out that that particular psychotic author focuses on things we do not have in common.

[Redacted by Moderator]... how is that for psychotic...

EndTheFed
11-03-2008, 11:57 AM
like a previous poster said, a lot of the GOP folks are simply ignorant, and i dont mean that in a mean-spirited fashion.

the GOP (average joe) believes in free-markets but simply doesnt understand the intracacies of distortion and intervention so they just tend to believe whatever Sean hannity or Rush tells them.

they need an alternative education on these matters, but in order to do so, you need their respect.

work within the GOP, because after all they preach "free-markets, and small gov't" from your podium you can influence and shape their beliefs.

time for me to head over to the GOP and shape some minds.

That is exactly wht my new site is going to be about... Exactly this

http://wethepeoplespace.com

and

http://wethepeoplespace.com/forums/

LibertyEagle
11-03-2008, 11:59 AM
Come on guys.... tone it down a bit.

LibertyEagle
11-03-2008, 12:08 PM
That type of aggressive, in-your-face and arrogant attitude is what I had to overcome to even look further into Ron Paul in the first place. For me and many others it was quite the turn-off, and a small minority of Paul supporters hurt the image of the movement despite how successful it was overall.

QFT.

People, READ THIS AGAIN. He's right.

We can sit back on our laurels and pat ourselves on the back about how smart we are and how dumb everyone else is, or we can put our egos back where they belong and fight this thing to win. Our numbers are small right now and they will remain that way, unless we have a serious attitude adjustment.

We will not win, if we sit on the sidelines and not get involved, or if we insult the hell out of anyone who does not walk goosestep with every single one of what some of us considers to be pure Libertarianism. This movement is NOT limited to pure Libertarians and IT NEVER WAS. So, maybe we should all take a step back and remember what we are fighting for here and be a bit more welcoming and a lot less smug to people who in our superiority complex, we believe are less worthy than ourselves. And yes, that last statement was meant to be sarcastic.

My 2 cents.

Signed,

An old-fashioned traditional conservative (aka who believes our Constitution should be conserved and interpreted according to our Founders' intent). :)

EndTheFed
11-03-2008, 12:27 PM
Come on guys.... tone it down a bit.

Sorry... Im just getting so frustrated with this crap..

NH4RonPaul
11-03-2008, 12:32 PM
Ron Paul voters could throw some states to OBAMA, and the Communists are just LOVING THIS!

RON PAUL could throw Montana to OBAMA.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/11/3/115050/816

YOUR MONEY IS IMPERILED $$$
------------------------------------
They are already talking about seizing the 401k accounts and now, SWISS UBS BANK ACCOUNTS. This will put a lot of us in big trouble. BIG TROUBLE! They have already confiscated gold from many of us, to the tune of THOUSANDS.

This is starting to look like NAZI GERMANY.

This flim-flam man Obama is on air as I type this, promising the morons of the world everything under the sun... what INTELLIGENT PERSON cannot see that these are promises he CANNOT KEEP??????????????? What person in their right mind does not know he will NOT pay their mortgage, car payments, groceries, and tuition???


YOUR FREEDOM IS IMPERILED
----------------------------------
We are ALSO about to enter the COMMUNIST POLICE STATE.

This plan of Obama's would violate the POSSE COMITATAS LAWS that prevent our military from being used against our own people. It's in the CONSTITUTION but Obama doesn't believe in the CONSTITUTION.

From Obama's Berlin Speech: "[W]e are going to grow our foreign service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy," said Obama. "We cannot to continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we have set. We have got to have a civilian national security force that is just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded." He added, "People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve."

Obama's "civilian national security force" will be used to enforce speech codes, the "FAIRNESS DOCTRINE" and DRACONIAN ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=69601



YOUR PRIVACY IS IMPERILED
-----------------------
Also, Obama supports UNION THUGS who will be able to see how you voted for them or against them.
This bill is falsely named THE FREE CHOICE ACT when it should be THE NO CHOICE ACT.

http://www.employeefreedom.org explains the "CARD CHECK" that they are trying to force on workers.
When you vote for or against a union, you will fill out a card and sign your name, NOT VOTE IN SECRET BALLOT.

WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING??????

OUR CHILDREN ARE IMPERILED
-------------------------
Also, this is why the young people don't know what COMMUNISM IS.
Wanna see how bad the EDUCATIONAL SITUATION IS WITH OUR KIDS? JUST LOOK AT THIS PROFESSOR'S WEBSITE: http://oz.plymouth.edu/~lsandy/

tonesforjonesbones
11-03-2008, 12:37 PM
Tones has never advocated mcCain...tones advocated exactly what the OP is doing. I have always said it's better to work on the grassroots level to change hearts and minds in the GOP...some of you are just ASSHATS. tones

Kludge
11-03-2008, 02:06 PM
Come on guys.... tone it down a bit.

Very PUNNY... har har.

EndTheFed
11-03-2008, 02:12 PM
Very PUNNY... har har.

No... No that would be tones it down a bit..... :D

tonesforjonesbones
11-03-2008, 03:57 PM
...kiss my GRITS....TONEZZZZZ


:p

hopeforamerica
11-03-2008, 05:36 PM
I've learned a lot about the political process canvassing for Ron Paul and a local liberty candidate. I will not whore myself out to McCain just to learn. I'm a PC and attend the republican meetings. They always want us to help everyone that is R. I won't do it, I only help those that will help the Country.

RickyJ
04-29-2012, 11:58 AM
First off, i'm not voting for John McCain, however i have been working my ass off canvassing for him over the last 4 days.


How did that work out for you? Do you regret canvasing for McCain? Honestly, he would have made Obama look good if he would have won.

CaptainAmerica
04-29-2012, 12:00 PM
http://troll.me/images/brace-yourselves/brace-yourselves-the-lame-memes-are-coming.jpg

angelatc
04-29-2012, 01:38 PM
How did that work out for you? Do you regret canvasing for McCain? Honestly, he would have made Obama look good if he would have won.

My co-blogger wrote a piece (http://redstateeclectic.typepad.com/redstate_commentary/2012/04/would-you-support-ron-paul.html) that goes along with this of train of thought.



It seems that one of the beefs against Ron Paul supporters in the larger Republican Party—and to be fair, with many Paul supporters, it is a legitimate beef if you look at it from the perspective of the Party—is that if/when Ron Paul loses the race, those supporters will bolt for somewhere else (Gary Johnson), not vote at all, and will not even be helpful to other Republican candidates.

and



Regardless of what happens this year, chances are, there will be other elections. In 2014, there will be local, state and federal elections. The whole political world is infinitely bigger than just Ron Paul, and we would be well served by remembering that. Change will not come solely from the top—it’ll come when we start electing (and holding accountable) state legislators, House members, Senators like Rand Paul and Mike Lee, and even lower position like City Council members.
So support our candidate enthusiastically, but don’t imply that you’re going to take your ball and leave if he doesn’t win; if you’re going to leave, just leave quietly. And then get to work for the future.

sailingaway
04-29-2012, 07:13 PM
My co-blogger wrote a piece (http://redstateeclectic.typepad.com/redstate_commentary/2012/04/would-you-support-ron-paul.html) that goes along with this of train of thought.



and

I assumed that was you. I did read it.

Kade
06-22-2012, 02:33 PM
How did that work out for you? Do you regret canvasing for McCain? Honestly, he would have made Obama look good if he would have won.

Hi.

CaptainAmerica
06-22-2012, 02:43 PM
you campaigned for dracula, its sad that monster will never be de-elected no matter what happens

Sola_Fide
06-22-2012, 02:51 PM
The OP of this thread was very precient.

trey4sports
06-22-2012, 04:16 PM
The OP of this thread was very precient.

WOW! Talk about a blast from the past! I remember writing that post too, and the work i did trying to make inroads into the gop establishment. I actually moved out of that county shortly after, but from what i've read Ron Paul won Greene County in '12 so my efforts might not have been in vain.

torchbearer
06-22-2012, 04:32 PM
I missed Kade. I admit it.

talkingpointes
06-22-2012, 05:09 PM
WOW! Talk about a blast from the past! I remember writing that post too, and the work i did trying to make inroads into the gop establishment. I actually moved out of that county shortly after, but from what i've read Ron Paul won Greene County in '12 so my efforts might not have been in vain.

Are you going to canvass for Romney? Not trying to be snarky or trying to make a jab.