I'm designing a mini farm. Pics attached.

[Dieseler]

My idea is to build my barn center of intended farm and expand by corners. I intend to fence corner A first and put a Boar and a Sow with a few hens in it over the first couple of months of Winter then move them to corner B after they plow up A really good. I will continue to move them around as they work and manure the ground up before time for spring planting.
Once a crop is up and going in a corner I will introduce geese into it to weed and eat bugs.
The North east corner, which will be down hill and to the left of picture will have a 1/3rd acre catfish pond. I hope to get 2 or 3 hundred pounds of fish from it per year. I may be a little to optimistic on that.
Somewhere along the fence lines I intend to build red worm boxes that will provide worm casings for compost and feed for the cat fish and fowl.
The dimensions of the corners are not to scale with the 20 x 20 barn. I don't have the skills to auto cad this plan but I think you get the idea. Help me out on that if you can.
Any ideas?
Help me out by expanding this idea or improving upon it.
This should be a fun thread.

Direct link http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Dieselerpics/minifarmsetup01.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Dieselerpics/minifarmsetup01.jpg

[steve005]

I like it, keep working on it

[Conza88]

Hard to see the pic up close... Good plan but. :D
Have you read Animal farm? Hehehe make sure the pigs don't rise up :p

[Conza88]

dble post :eek:

[Dieseler]

I'm trying to fix the resolution of the pic but I can't seem to make it better.
I can make it worse though, lol.
I'm at a severe disadvantage when it comes to graphics. I used MS paint to set the lines and redo the text boxes after I scanned it, then I uploaded it to Photobucket.
I tried to increase the dpi or size by rescanning it but it definitely only got worse.

[tmosley]

If geese eat weeds, what's to stop them from eating your crops?

If you want to keep the bugs out, I would suggest you build a chicken moat, which is basically a chicken run around your planting area. They keep their run free of bugs, so the bugs can't get into your crops.

[angelatc]

If geese eat weeds, what's to stop them from eating your crops?

If you want to keep the bugs out, I would suggest you build a chicken moat, which is basically a chicken run around your planting area. They keep their run free of bugs, so the bugs can't get into your crops.

Don't bugs fly?

[Dieseler]

If geese eat weeds, what's to stop them from eating your crops?

Geese would not be turned out until the crops were a bit big for them to pluck. From what I understand, they like young tender weeds and bugs.


If you want to keep the bugs out, I would suggest you build a chicken moat, which is basically a chicken run around your planting area. They keep their run free of bugs, so the bugs can't get into your crops.

I like that. I'm trying to implement it into the plan now.
I'm figuring that each one of the garden corners will be about a half acre square. 100' x 100'. That would be a pretty long run if I left it continuous. I'm gonna play with that idea and repost what I come up with a little later today. Hopefully I can get this into some kind of scale.


Don't bugs fly?
They sure do. That gave me another idea for a cheap fix.
Martin houses set up in the corners on phone poles. They only work at around dusk but they love to fly together eating bugs. I will definitely be adding this to the plan.
I can also put lights on those corner poles so I can see what I'm down there on a late work day.

If anyone can give me an idea on what I have to do to get my drawing scanned, doctored up with paint and then posted on photobucket where it would be more readable, tell me what to do.

Lol, I stepped on a Kingsnake yesterday behind the pond site. My Son flipped out. I rolled on the ground by the snake laughing at him. Glad it wasn't a Cotton mouth. That wouldn't have been too funny on the very back of that twelve acres.
My eyes are getting bad lol.

Hey, Thanks and keep the ideas and critiques coming. I got at least three ideas from this discussion so far.

[Dr.3D]

Here is a pretty good article on weeder geese.
http://metzerfarms.com/weeder.htm

[Doktor_Jeep]

I have a good friend who has 5 acres.

We planted on 1 acre and still ended up giving away more produce than we could eat.

[Dieseler]

Ok, I got a scaled version here now. The minifarm will be approximately 1 square acre.
Each square is 10 square foot.

Direct link. It prints pretty well.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Dieselerpics/graphminifarmsetup01.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Dieselerpics/graphminifarmsetup01.jpg

I'm off to vote now.

[Crowish]

My dad raised strawberries during the depression, as a kid. He used geese to weed/control bugs in the strawberry beds.

[OKRonPaul]

that is huge now! :-D

FWIW each square is about 1/4 acre not half

[Dieseler]

that is huge now! :-D

FWIW each square is about 1/4 acre not half

Thanks I fixed it.
One full acre is more than enough for me to take care of, maybe even too much.
:D

[OKRonPaul]

Thanks I fixed it.
One full acre is more than enough for me to take care of, maybe even too much.
:D

Looks great.

I meant to add before that I'm keeping a close eye on your thread, eager to pick up ideas for my own 2 acres that I just moved onto. I know I won't't be as ambitous as you are, at least not unless I find myself unemployed. I've been looking at different ideas to do a smallish greenhouse (maybe 8x12 to start) and at least have some fresh veggies year round.

[Dieseler]

Looks great.

I meant to add before that I'm keeping a close eye on your thread, eager to pick up ideas for my own 2 acres that I just moved onto. I know I won't't be as ambitous as you are, at least not unless I find myself unemployed. I've been looking at different ideas to do a smallish greenhouse (maybe 8x12 to start) and at least have some fresh veggies year round.

Please do and suggest anything or redo the drawing, make your own or whatever to any scale you like. I cant do auto cad and don't have time to learn it so I'm just making rudimentary drawings then trying to doctor them up with ms paint. Its a pain.
Geez, I forgot my greenhouse...
Back to the drawing board. I'll implement it into the next drawing.
I still haven't figured out the best way to do that all the way around chicken run either. That would double my fencing. I like that idea though.

I have not purchased this piece of land yet but I have walked it twice in the last couple of months and yesterday. Its 12 acres and the dirt in that bottom is like black gold. It has a killer pond site to. I will try to post a somewhat scaled drawing of the property and show where everything is going in on it next.

Just as soon as I get this house sold I will be headed that way and hopefully with enough cash to get what I need done and be settled in. We are about to 'Simplify our lives'.
Not retire by any stretch of the imagination, but simplify.

[XNavyNuke]

Dieseler,

We have 10 acres with two ponds. This is our third place over the past thirteen years. We've learned alot.

Here are a couple of things to spark additional ideas. If you have a spot in mind, make you improvements fit the land and not vice versa.

AN ENERGY ANALYSIS OF THE DAN TAYLOR FAMILY'S OZARK FARM (http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Homes/1978-03-01/Food-Self-Sufficiency-Competition.aspx)
and the more technical emergy analysis. 23.2.3 Self-sufficient agriculture (http://books.google.com/books?id=OOrInRHlI7wC&pg=PA250&lpg=PA250&dq=%22mother+earth+news%22+%22emergy%22+Taylor+far m&source=web&ots=QPHN_2t5Jv&sig=J1ydOkcfG7v4nFyyyPJpqV161Ic&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result)

Take advantage of eons of experience. Study traditional layouts suitable to your climate: Romans, Germans, Persians. If its anywhere in the heartland and you have access to lots of stone a bastle house and barmkin will stand for generations.

XNN

[danberkeley]

So where's the pool going? Oh, and the mini golf course? :D

[Dieseler]

Dieseler,

We have 10 acres with two ponds. This is our third place over the past thirteen years. We've learned alot.

Here are a couple of things to spark additional ideas. If you have a spot in mind, make you improvements fit the land and not vice versa.

AN ENERGY ANALYSIS OF THE DAN TAYLOR FAMILY'S OZARK FARM (http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Homes/1978-03-01/Food-Self-Sufficiency-Competition.aspx)
and the more technical emergy analysis. 23.2.3 Self-sufficient agriculture (http://books.google.com/books?id=OOrInRHlI7wC&pg=PA250&lpg=PA250&dq=%22mother+earth+news%22+%22emergy%22+Taylor+far m&source=web&ots=QPHN_2t5Jv&sig=J1ydOkcfG7v4nFyyyPJpqV161Ic&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result)

Take advantage of eons of experience. Study traditional layouts suitable to your climate: Romans, Germans, Persians. If its anywhere in the heartland and you have access to lots of stone a bastle house and barmkin will stand for generations.

XNN

Hey, thanks for the link. It looks like a good read.
Planning is everything right now. Things are evolving around that plan quicker than I can draw them up and planning is all that I can do right now.
I will definitely go through that sight.
The farm will be in South Alabama by the way.
I'm trying to take the boundary map I have of this twelve acres and show where and how I'm going to build all of this stuff. Unfortunately I only have the footage on two sides of the map, the rest was unreadable.
Seems there should be a program of some kind that could calculate the footage around a boundary if you had one or two sides.

[Dieseler]

So where's the pool going? Oh, and the mini golf course? :D

The pool always goes right behind the house Dan.
:D
No mini golf course on my place but I will be able to hit balls off the back deck as far as the eye can see.

[FindLiberty]

Your new layout picture looks great! I thought the BATF now requires a wind sock and "drug raid" landing pad for all new farms; I don't see yours. That might be your first federal violation. Have you checked the property for any endangered species? Take a tip from the Waco debacle and don't ever call it a compound.

Don't forget about the government funding angle where you get paid for "not raising hogs".

Hmmm, nice to have a greenhouse... It's a whole lot easier to make that change while the plan is still on paper... and don't forget the swimming pool and mini-golf.

+++

Read up!! (any underground irrigation and drainage infrastucture?)

Happy trails to ya!

[Dieseler]

Your new layout picture looks great! I thought the BATF now requires a wind sock and "drug raid" landing pad for all new farms; I don't see yours. That might be your first federal violation. Have you checked the property for any endangered species? Take a tip from the Waco debacle and don't ever call it a compound.

Don't forget about the government funding angle where you get paid for "not raising hogs".

Hmmm, nice to have a greenhouse... It's a whole lot easier to make that change while the plan is still on paper... and don't forget the swimming pool and mini-golf.

+++

Read up!! (any underground irrigation and drainage infrastucture?)

Happy trails to ya!

Lmao, I started to post that paid for "not raising hogs" thing yesterday.
I should have another drawing up by tonight. This one is tough to scale for a Neanderthal like me on a keyboard lol.

[Dieseler]

Heres a rough scale of the entire property. The whole thing slopes from west to east and bottoms flat at about the tree line that heads diagonally to the North and along the North, South fence line.

Edit.... Ok, it looks right now.

Heres the list so far.
Pond for catfish, garden water and water supply for cattle...Check
Green house.... Check
Garden area / Hog and Chicken pen... Check
Pasture area enough for hopefully 2 head of Beef Cattle...Check
Hay barn for cattle and place to escape the weather... Check
Good area for septic system above home site... Check
Spotted a good place for a well... Check
What am I missing?



http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Dieselerpics/Graph12acres2.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Dieselerpics/Graph12acres2.jpg

[Dieseler]

I better check into this program.
http://www.tolfa.us/arts/hogs.htm

[Dieseler]

I've been reading up on Tilapia from the Agromisa books and several good sources online.
I think my 12 acre plan will be revised to use four or five smaller (1/4 acre or less) ponds rather than the one big pond.
Tilapia grow a lot faster than catfish, up to a pound in six months.
That could be a lot of good eating put up over a spring, summer season.
My next update will include some actual thought about implementation rather than just a picture. I'm starting to get an idea about what each different critter is going to bring to the table, no pun intended, for the other critters. Compost goes a long way all around the mini farm.
Will update plan soon.

[XNavyNuke]

The farm will be in South Alabama by the way.
I'm trying to take the boundary map I have of this twelve acres and show where and how I'm going to build all of this stuff. Unfortunately I only have the footage on two sides of the map, the rest was unreadable.
Seems there should be a program of some kind that could calculate the footage around a boundary if you had one or two sides.

You might want to get a DOQ (flattened aerial photo) of your property and mark it up. For Alabama, you can find them here: Digital Aerial Photographs (DOQs and DOQQS) (http://www.aces.edu/waterquality/gis_data/doqq_data_intro.htm)

XNN

[Dieseler]

I just realized that I am trying to reinvent the wheel.
This is not the first time I have been guilty of it either. Its been sort of a lifes work for me, banging my head, mucking things up here and there.
Anyway,
I recently come across,
The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency
By
John Seymour.
This is the absolute best written work I have ever come across on gardening for one thing and everything else homesteading for that matter.

I don't have to bang my head on this anymore. This fellow has also apparently put his whole lifes work into doing something besides banging his head, reinventing wheels and it just so happens to be what I want to do for the first time late in my own life.
All I have to do is read, comprehend and implement his ideas into my work.
I highly suggest this mans books to anyone else who wants to do something similar. I can't put the book down and I can imagine that I will probably read it more than a few times and go back to it a few gin more times before I'm finally able to start my farm.
Now if this damn house would sell I could get started.
So far the land I have picked out to buy is still on the market. Maybe it will stay that way a while longer. Knock on wood.

[XNavyNuke]

I just realized that I am trying to reinvent the wheel.
This is not the first time I have been guilty of it either. Its been sort of a lifes work for me, banging my head, mucking things up here and there.
Anyway,
I recently come across,
The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency
By
John Seymour.
This is the absolute best written work I have ever come across on gardening for one thing and everything else homesteading for that matter.


If you like John Seymour, check out this link page. SelfSufficiency.net (http://www.selfsufficiency.net/)

XNN

[Allen72289]

No matter how many acres you have you should always want more.

Not just for planting but wildlife etc. can never pass up a good deer, firewood etc

Plus the wild life may benefit your farm

Please reade the self-sufficient lifestyle and how to live it by john seymour

his book details homesteading on from garden scale on up to 5 or more acres.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Look into the New Alchemy Institute - esp: solar algae ponds and Bioshelters.

http://www.nature.my.cape.com/greencenter/newalchemy.html

I've got plans for a SAP and have built one, in case you cant get them from them.

Then for something really radical - look up the $50 and up underground house book - one variation is a greenhouse! - You said you had access to a backhoe - right? - and you don't have to dig all the way down as you can use excavated dirt to "bury" the sides above ground. - gives you a year round garden.

Finally, look up the books Permaculture and Permaculture II - a bit pricey, but encyclopedic and they will turn your pre-conceived notions on their head. Another good one is "One straw revolution" that has things like instead of plowing, plant clover and have patience... it will not only enrich your top soil, but break it up too.

The self sufficiency book you mentioned is excellent! - pay particular attention to Deep beds.

hope that helps,

-t

[pacelli]

I didn't notice any section for a wood pile. I'm not sure if I missed this but approximately how much wood will you have on the property? If you've got a few acres of trees, you might want to consider wood heating as a backup. If you haven't considered it you may want a good wood burning stove - the ashes from it can double as an additive for your compost heap. The book "Wood Heat" by John Vivian is probably the best I've read on the subject & the guy is quite exhaustive. Older book from the late 70's but you can find them cheap on amazon.

[pcosmar]

You might want to get a DOQ (flattened aerial photo) of your property and mark it up. For Alabama, you can find them here: Digital Aerial Photographs (DOQs and DOQQS) (http://www.aces.edu/waterquality/gis_data/doqq_data_intro.htm)

XNN

You can also get a shot of your property with GoogleEarth.
I have "plans" for my place but have never put them down on paper. They are always subject to change, or being placed on the back burner.
My place,
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2070/2183204453_ae547e8deb_o.png

Good luck to you.

[tangent4ronpaul]

46*22'26.38"N, 84*29'33.01"W - Got it!

Targeting data locked.

JOKING!

It does look like a nice lil spread you've got there...

-t

[pcosmar]

46*22'26.38"N, 84*29'33.01"W - Got it!

Targeting data locked.

JOKING!

It does look like a nice lil spread you've got there...

-t

Thanks,
Only 20 acres are mine, but lots of good neighbors.

And no, I'm not scared.
I was on "lists" long before I heard of Ron Paul. ;)

[Dieseler]

46*22'26.38"N, 84*29'33.01"W - Got it!

Targeting data locked.

JOKING!

It does look like a nice lil spread you've got there...

-t

LMAO.
He gottya PCO!

Hey great links all. I have taken some really good ideas from this thread and all the links it provided. Ron Paul people are the best no doubt.
Make sure you guys throw those links in the pinned thread to or I will steal your credit lol.

I'm an old timer tree surgeon Pacelli. I generally make a few calls and can haul away all the wood I can stand to store.
Most tree surgeons will give it to you if you can move it without slowing down their work, some might even pay you to take it at times.
Keep your eye out for big logging opps to. They generally leave a big old mess and the property owners will usually let you skim over the mess after they are gone.

Good idea though, I will need to plan for a permanent structure to season wood under because I will definitely be using wood to heat at times.

I have one tree line on this property I hope to buy and a lot of scrub oak and such that needs to be thinned out. I'm gonna definitely set more than a few of these trees as hands off from the saw.
I hear that over in Europe people only top their trees for their fire wood. You would be absolutely blown away by how much new growth one big Oak will put off from suckers and scarring alone in three years time only after being topped.

Any of you guys ever use sweet gum for fire wood?
Season it good and dry and a fair sized log will burn all night.
It burns round and round and most of the ash is real light.
I can't honestly say it burns hotter than oak or hickory but it does burn longer and generally leaves something in the way of coals in the morning.
It is cheap to when people are trying to get rid of it which is usually the case.

Well, this idea of mine is definitely worth doing but with the housing market like it is I'm starting to think I'm gonna have to give my house away in order to sell it. I certainly can't do that.
I have a good fixed rate mortgage and the payments aren't bad so thats the good thing I guess. Worst case hopefully I can put all these ideas to work on this small lot and get by through barter if things turn far worse than they are now.
The only other bright spot is that through reading and research I have a clue about the wisdom it will take to survive during and on the other side of all this and hopefully the neighbors will see the value in that.
Neighbors are more valuable than Gold.
Aside from that,
alas, I have no gold.

Edit for 12/21/08
I had a good bite on the house I thought but they never called back.
Its looking like mini farm will be backyard garden again this year.
Its still not to late though and my fingers are still crossed.
Edit for 12/25/08
Planning garden for right here where I'm at now in case home doesn't sell.
Ordering seed, planning beds and such.

[XNavyNuke]

Update?