Why did Ron Paul not walk off stage?

[tomcat]

UPDATE: This is a thread I started when I truly began to see that Ron had to do something extraordinary to get people to pay attention, or face what we heard today. Of course, that is that Ron is not going to be the Republican nominee and won't do it in a party full of americans who love war.

Upon hearing the libel directed against him at the Fox News debate, specifically at the moment he was asked if he took his marching orders from Al Qaida, why did Ron Paul not give a brief explaination that he would not sit there and take such slander and walk off stage?

This would have been the best, and most appropriate response. If I were Paul I would have said that one must look at what premise such a question would have been asked for, and that he must conclude that Fox News was accusing him of outright treason. Under such deliberate attempts to attack his credibility, Ron should have declared he no longer saw it right to stay at the debate and left the stage.

This would have caused SUCH uproar that it would have dominated the night, and it would have dominated the next morning's conversation across the country about how our country is corrupted by such powerful media tycoons. Ron would have been a hero, and we would be wondering how the hell do handle all the volunteers who would be trying to jump on the Ron Paul train.

[max]

Upon hearing the libel directed against him at the Fox News debate, specifically at the moment he was asked if he took his marching orders from Al Qaida, why did Ron Paul not give a brief explaination that he would not sit there and take such slander and walk off stage?

This would have been the best, and most appropriate response. If I were Paul I would have said that one must look at what premise such a question would have been asked for, and that he must conclude that Fox News was accusing him of outright treason. Under such deliberate attempts to attack his credibility, Ron should have declared he no longer saw it right to stay at the debate and left the stage.

This would have caused SUCH uproar that it would have dominated the night, and it would have dominated the next morning's conversation across the country about how our country is corrupted by such powerful media tycoons. Ron would have been a hero, and we would be wondering how the hell do handle all the volunteers who would be trying to jump on the Ron Paul train.



The media spin on that would be:

"Ron Paul runs under tough questioning...just like he wants to run out of Iraq."...He stood and fought and won the debate

[Slugg]

Nah, he would have looked weak and like a cry baby.

I think yelling at the guy and seeing it through was perfect. He's taking his punches....he'll have to take many more before it's done.

[RP4ME]

he can handle it - if he gonna be president of thsi country - hell deal with tougher - it makes them look more retarded and immoral by him staying

[tomcat]

Who cares what the spin would have been, the magnitude of such an occurance would capture average America's attention more then any boring media critique

[DjLoTi]

Ya I wish he came back a little bit harder on that slimebag wallace.. but... walking off stage would have been bad. Then they'd been like "well I guess he's not running for president anymore!!"

[kylejack]

Walking out = No more debate invitations.

[tomcat]

Nah, he would have looked weak and like a cry baby.

I think yelling at the guy and seeing it through was perfect. He's taking his punches....he'll have to take many more before it's done.

He looks like a baby, weak, there in that he didn't leave. It shows he NEEDS Fox's publicity, which he doesn't. He needs courageous action, not just courageous stances

[Omnis]

When someone gives you shit, you let them have it. Walking off stage would've been the worst thing ever.

When you're armed with truth, there is no fight you can't win.

[tomcat]

Walking out = No more debate invitations.

I highly doubt that. Any media outlet would be gnawing at the bit to be the heros that took up Ron Paul after sticking it to Fox.

[Abobo]

The moment when Ron Paul pointed his pen at the guy and said "NO!" was the best single moment of the night. He seemed both angry and yet totally controlled. I was very impressed.

[tomcat]

Ya I wish he came back a little bit harder on that slimebag wallace.. but... walking off stage would have been bad. Then they'd been like "well I guess he's not running for president anymore!!"

They'd be fools for saying so. They would look like whiny babies too, in that they don't like the way Ron wasn't playing in their sandbox

[cujothekitten]

He should have asked them if they were off their meds.

[hopeforamerica]

He looks like a baby, weak, there in that he didn't leave. It shows he NEEDS Fox's publicity, which he doesn't. He needs courageous action, not just courageous stances

You are wrong here. Walking off and quiting is the cowardly thing to do. Standing up for yourself and your views is much tougher than walking off a stage. I admired Ron Paul even more after this debate.

[Mr. White]

He looks like a baby, weak, there in that he didn't leave. It shows he NEEDS Fox's publicity, which he doesn't. He needs courageous action, not just courageous stances

I see what you're saying, but disagree. He does need media publicity, any he can get. If he had left, it would have been a slam dunk for the other candidates. The spin another poster cited above would ahve come, Ron wouldn't ahve been invited to any more debates, and the average American that you think would have heard about it and be inspired, would never have ehard about it.

[tomcat]

He seemed both angry and yet totally controlled. I was very impressed.

He looked pissed, and not as composed as he had been. I thought it was childish. The smartest thing to have done was to politely, yet forcefully declared he was leaving.

[rockfree33]

Walking off stage would have shown weak character. What kind of President walks out during a conflict? Ron Paul did the right thing and let Fox's attempt to derail the revolution backfire in their face, once again.

[tomcat]

If he had left, it would have been a slam dunk for the other candidates.

Explain. How so?


Ron wouldn't ahve been invited to any more debates,

Oh, thank you Mr. CNN/MSNBC/etc. How do you know this?

[Kuldebar]

Why did Ron Paul not walk off stage?

Ron Paul is a man, unlike the other bastards. Unlike the others, pride and ego aren't a weakness for him, nor seductive power a threat to his mortal soul. He is his own man and not a dissembler.



=======================================

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated, don't give way to hating,

And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;

If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,

And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

-Rudyard Kipling
=======================================

[tomcat]

What kind of President walks out during a conflict?

What kind of weak candidate takes it up the ass from Fox News? I'd hope not Ron Paul

[tomcat]

Unlike the others, pride and ego aren't a weakness for him,

This isn't about pride nor ego. It's about his basic rights as a man on that stage being violated by those in power. It was submissive to stay.

[American]

Troll alert!!!!

LOL

Is he would have walked off stage they would have made him out to be an isolationist without the balls to even a debate tough issues. He did exactly what he should have done and that is stick it out and debate why he feels this way.

I kinda see your point but I dont see what it would have accomplished

[jblosser]

So by your logic are you being submissive by staying in this thread arguing your point that no one else here agrees with? Honest question.

[tomcat]

So, is there no one else who wants to claim Ron Paul would not get invited back to other debates? [In Maximus Aurilius voice] "IS THERE NO ONE ELSE!!?"

[Sematary]

Who cares what the spin would have been, the magnitude of such an occurance would capture average America's attention more then any boring media critique

If he walked off - his campaign would be over. No one would have any respect for a man who ran away from a tough question. What could you expect of that person as president?
You want a good idea of how the country would feel about that? How do you feel about that coward, Thompson, hiding from the debate?

[Kuldebar]

This isn't about pride nor ego. It's about his basic rights as a man on that stage being violated by those in power. It was submissive to stay.

A lesser man would have walked off the stage or bowed out on other occasions.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2001/0107/tiananmen.jpg

Submission to stay? I don't know how you could be more wrong if you tried.

[Sematary]

This isn't about pride nor ego. It's about his basic rights as a man on that stage being violated by those in power. It was submissive to stay.

So if a guy punches you in the face and you punch him back you are being submissive? Really?

[Mr. White]

I'll break it down as your pushing here.

When Ron leaves it does the following things

Sends the message he is weak
Sends the message that he can't back up his beliefs
Sends the message that he runs from adversity
Sends the message that he doesn't want to participate in debates
Keeps Americans from hearing more of his views
Keeps Americans from seeing more of his face
Keeps Americans from hearing more of his voice.
Keeps Americans from hearing his name.
Gives every newspaper with the inclination to plug 'Ron Retreats' instead we got a Republicans butt heads with Paul' line.

Feel free to break down your ideas for us.

[emilysdad]

No,no,no. Ron did the absolute best thing. He stood his ground and attacked each of those jabs from an offensive position instead of a defensive retort. Huckabee was the example of a retreat.

[lapi7]

When armed with the Truth there is never ANY reason to back down.

For FOX News let it be said that ignorance and hostility are poor substitutes for insight.

I believe that there were many thinking people who watched the debate and picked up on this...and realized that FOX simply shot themselves in the foot thus giving Dr. Paul the advantage...

[kenc9]

He did it right, yelling NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

I take my marching orders from the Constitution!

He looked strong, tuff and VERY to the point and the crowd responded well!

I didn't think he could be that tuff.

-ken

[pauleocon]

What kind of weak candidate takes it up the ass from Fox News? I'd hope not Ron Paul

I disagree completely. His walking out would have been a sign of defeat. He handled it exactly right, IMO. He was righteously angry, obviously so, and he emphatically stated that our marching orders come from the Constitution. It was powerful.

The Fox boys and the other candidates are the ones that looked terrible, not Ron Paul.

[tomcat]

Troll alert!!!!

I kinda see your point but I dont see what it would have accomplished

People love underdogs. This would have caused more drama around the nation then Paris Hilton being put in jail. It's dramatic too, and it wouldn't have been done for the drama either, but rather his unalienable rights.

LOL TROLL?

So you try to do the same thing as Fox News, huh? Undermine my credibility? That's a sign you are ask weak as the fool who asked Ron Paul that idiotic question.

[speciallyblend]

and they would of used it against him and americans would of seen no more or heard of his issues. headline would oif been will he walk out on america as well,

HE DID A GREAT JOB AND STOOD ABOVE ALL THE REST

[tomcat]

So if a guy punches you in the face and you punch him back you are being submissive? Really?

Wait, so leaving the stage ISN'T a gutsy manly move? I think it takes a helluva lot more man to walk off a stage in protest then to punch someone. I don't think it's been done before in modern American election history.

Try them pants on for size.

[Sematary]

People love underdogs. This would have caused more drama around the nation then Paris Hilton being put in jail. It's dramatic too, and it wouldn't have been done for the drama either, but rather his unalienable rights.

LOL TROLL?

So you try to do the same thing as Fox News, huh? Undermine my credibility? That's a sign you are ask weak as the fool who asked Ron Paul that idiotic question.

Again - if someone punches you in the face and you punch him back - does that make you submissive? No, it gives the attacker pause because they weren't expecting it. In fact, FOX might have been attempting to see if they could get him to do EXACTLY what you think he should have done. It would have been the end of his campaign. I would have lost all respect for him if he had not stood his ground.

[Sematary]

Wait, so leaving the stage ISN'T a gutsy manly move? I think it takes a helluva lot more man to walk off a stage in protest then to punch someone. I don't think it's been done before in modern American election history.

Try them pants on for size.

In real life, if you run, they will keep punching you. He never would have recovered from the humiliation. I understand where you are coming from but disagree with your conclusion.

[specsaregood]

He looked pissed, and not as composed as he had been. I thought it was childish. The smartest thing to have done was to politely, yet forcefully declared he was leaving.

You are wrong. He was totally composed, but showed that he has the *fire* in the belly still to let people know when they are out of line. Which people have been asking for him to show. Your solution is for the weak.

His response, "I take my marching orders from the Constitution" was GOLDEN. They threw him a spit-laden, hard fastball and he knocked it out of the park with his response!

[Sematary]

You are wrong. He was totally composed, but showed that he has the *fire* in the belly still to let people know when they are out of line. Which people have been asking for him to show. Your solution is for the weak.

His response, "I take my marching orders from the Constitution" was GOLDEN. They threw him a spit-laden, hard fastball and he knocked it out of the park with his response!

Exactly!

[devil21]

It would have been RP's Howard Dean moment if he ran off the stage. It's a debate not a fistfight.

[tomcat]

Wow, this thread is exploding faster then I can keep up

I'll break it down as your pushing here.

When Ron leaves it does the following things

Sends the message he is weak
Sends the message that he can't back up his beliefs
Sends the message that he runs from adversity
Sends the message that he doesn't want to participate in debates
Keeps Americans from hearing more of his views
Keeps Americans from seeing more of his face
Keeps Americans from hearing more of his voice.
Keeps Americans from hearing his name.
Gives every newspaper with the inclination to plug 'Ron Retreats' instead we got a Republicans butt heads with Paul' line.

Feel free to break down your ideas for us.

Sends the message he is strong
Sends the message that he has a sense of integrity
Sends the message that he won't take bullying
Sends the message that he wants to participate in a fair debate

"Keeps Americans from hearing more of his views
Keeps Americans from seeing more of his face
Keeps Americans from hearing more of his voice.
Keeps Americans from hearing his name."

Like most Americans where even watching the debate? This would have gotten even the most apathetic American curious about who this man was who stood up to the powers at be.

"Gives every newspaper with the inclination to plug 'Ron Retreats' instead we got a Republicans butt heads with Paul' line."

They already have that inclination, so why even bother? Staying wont change that

[DjLoTi]

you are acting a bit troll-y

[specsaregood]

It would have been RP's Howard Dean moment if he ran off the stage. It's a debate not a fistfight.

NO doubt, that is exactly what they were aiming for. His dean moment. They failed to attain this goal. They WILL try again.

[specsaregood]

you are acting a bit troll-y

Indeed a troll. But it was worth dismissing his idea.

[tomcat]

Again - if someone punches you in the face and you punch him back - does that make you submissive? No, it gives the attacker pause because they weren't expecting it. In fact, FOX might have been attempting to see if they could get him to do EXACTLY what you think he should have done. It would have been the end of his campaign. I would have lost all respect for him if he had not stood his ground.

It makes him look like he's just part of their game, which he was that night. To show that he rises above their game and shows that they aren't even worth "punching," now that is an insult America would not forget.

Ron's performance was cool, yes, but it is ultimately forgettable

[DjLoTi]

Actually, it's not 'forgettable', because he has now set the tone for the rest of the debates. I'm not going to get into why, but he has. So, Ron played his cards very, very well...

[tomcat]

you are acting a bit troll-y

I may look like a troll, but I am no troll. I am as passionate about Ron Paul winning as you all are. I deeply care about him winning, which is why I bring this up

[Paulitician]

Ron Paul didn't walk off because he's not a coward like Giuliani or Mitt Romney. He actually has courage.

[devil21]

Not to mention how much worse Hannity would have been after the debate. It would be reasonable to assume that if RP ran off the stage during the debate he would not have participated in the interviews afterward.

Sorry tomcat, but you're just wrong on so many levels with this one.

[tomcat]

It would have been RP's Howard Dean moment if he ran off the stage. It's a debate not a fistfight.

That's why you don't run off stage. You state rationally why you disagree, send a message, and then walk away. Calmness and composure in tough situations can scream more loudly then any man could.

[Bossobass]

When someone gives you shit, you let them have it. Walking off stage would've been the worst thing ever.

When you're armed with truth, there is no fight you can't win.

Amen.

No way is Ron Paul EVER walking away from a debate that he's agreed to take part in, especially against a politically motivated mental midget armed only with cheap shots handed to him by his cowardly owners who are afraid to personally confront RP.

RP told me at the first Fox debate in South Carolina, after he rattled off several things about Giuliani that make him an easy target for attack, "That's not why I'm here". He then said, "As long as you show up in growing numbers, I'll be there to continue to deliver the message."

BS from a putz is the last thing that will send him packing.

Bosso

[Sematary]

I may look like a troll, but I am no troll. I am as passionate about Ron Paul winning as you all are. I deeply care about him winning, which is why I bring this up

We all think you are barking up the wrong tree on this one. He had his best moments of the debates here and walking away would not have served any good purpose.

[tomcat]

Not to mention how much worse Hannity would have been after the debate. It would be reasonable to assume that if RP ran off the stage during the debate he would not have participated in the interviews afterward.

Sorry tomcat, but you're just wrong on so many levels with this one.

You all seem to care more about what the media hacks, who by the way ALREADY HATE Ron Paul, will think or say. So what? That's not gonna change.

Again, you all are showing your NEED for Fox News. And that is what I claim is weak. As long as you NEED Fox News, they will keep you and the rest of this country as slaves.

[Kuldebar]

Moral certitude is not a weakness. It doesn't guarantee you are always right, but it means you stand your ground.

[American]

People love underdogs. This would have caused more drama around the nation then Paris Hilton being put in jail. It's dramatic too, and it wouldn't have been done for the drama either, but rather his unalienable rights.

LOL TROLL?

So you try to do the same thing as Fox News, huh? Undermine my credibility? That's a sign you are ask weak as the fool who asked Ron Paul that idiotic question.

Dude you have 11 posts and said Ron Paul took it up the ass from FOX news.

You're a fucking troll, not worthy of anyones times. Certainly not mine.

You either support Ron Paul or you dont. It was a bad situation to be in to begin with but walking off would have made it worse. Why get into the woulda coulda shoulda anyways.

[spiteface]

Are you kidding me? I would have dropped my support if he had ran out like a little girl. That's for the p*ssy democrats who are afraid of Fox News. Ron stood up to their nonsense and made them look like fools. Get real.

[tomcat]

Amen.

No way is Ron Paul EVER walking away from a debate that he's agreed to take part in, especially against a politically motivated mental midget armed only with cheap shots handed to him by his cowardly owners who are afraid to personally confront RP.

RP told me at the first Fox debate in South Carolina, after he rattled off several things about Giuliani that make him an easy target for attack, "That's not why I'm here". He then said, "As long as you show up in growing numbers, I'll be there to continue to deliver the message."

BS from a putz is the last thing that will send him packing.

Bosso

You saying this is basically telling me that Paul has agreed to others belittling his name. Again, Ron Paul doesn't need Fox News, and he should show it.

[DjLoTi]

ok well you have your opinion and we have ours. nuff' said.

[tomcat]

Moral certitude is not a weakness. It doesn't guarantee you are always right, but it means you stand your ground.

If he had truly stood his ground, he would not have let such an ad hominem attack stand. He should have shown his power, in that Fox News only has him there because he wanted to be there, and that he has the power to leave.

It would have shown more power then any words can.

[hells_unicorn]

The issue is not how the media views Ron Paul, the issue is how the people who watch the media view him (Fox has extremely high ratings, regardless of how much I hate the fact) and this act would have been seen as cowardly. Speaking for myself, I would drop my support for him if he had walked off that stage, I don't support arrogant people who think they are better than anyone else, regardless to the ridiculous questions they ask. He didn't walk off the stage, he will not do it no matter what they say to him, get over yourself.

[itsnobody]

Upon hearing the libel directed against him at the Fox News debate, specifically at the moment he was asked if he took his marching orders from Al Qaida, why did Ron Paul not give a brief explaination that he would not sit there and take such slander and walk off stage?

This would have been the best, and most appropriate response. If I were Paul I would have said that one must look at what premise such a question would have been asked for, and that he must conclude that Fox News was accusing him of outright treason. Under such deliberate attempts to attack his credibility, Ron should have declared he no longer saw it right to stay at the debate and left the stage.

This would have caused SUCH uproar that it would have dominated the night, and it would have dominated the next morning's conversation across the country about how our country is corrupted by such powerful media tycoons. Ron would have been a hero, and we would be wondering how the hell do handle all the volunteers who would be trying to jump on the Ron Paul train.

The way Ron Paul handled it was magnificent in clarifying his views if he had avoided answering it would've hurt him a lot more but shouting back "NO" "I take orders from the Constitution!!!!!" was great...

[American]

This guy wants someone he could sit down after work and have a beer with, someone macho just like the mongo in charge now, forget principles.

At least this guy is dumb enough to essentially say "I'm from the other camp and I want to tell you why Ron Paul lost"

[Kuldebar]

If he had truly stood his ground, he would not have let such an ad hominem attack stand. He should have shown his power, in that Fox News only has him there because he wanted to be there, and that he has the power to leave.

It would have shown more power then any words can.

You don't win debates by not debating.

[fletcher]

Walking off would have be the worst thing he could have done. Thankfully Ron is a smart man.

[Vvick727]

Yeah, wow. 72, and still fiery. thats awesome

[tomcat]

Dude you have 11 posts and said Ron Paul took it up the ass from FOX news.

You're a fucking troll, not worthy of anyones times. Certainly not mine.

You either support Ron Paul or you dont. It was a bad situation to be in to begin with but walking off would have made it worse. Why get into the woulda coulda shoulda anyways.

It's sad that you believe someone who shows disagreement is a troll.

You either support Ron Paul or you dont? So, you claim to be Ron Paul yourself here, huh? Does anyone know what Ron Paul thinks about my question? Unless you are the man himself, you don't.

Dissent is at the core of patriotism, and I embody Ron Paul's courage on this matter by showing dissent with an action of his.

I have to get going, but I will come back later to see what more people have said. Please don't take me to be a troll. I sincerely care about this man winning, and I merely wish to speak my mind.

Check out my post in the "Take Action" area or whatever. It's called "Old people and wrestling." I think I have some fresh ideas on how to continue to spread the Ron Paul revolution.

Peace

[Kuldebar]

It's sad that you believe someone who shows disagreement is a troll.

You either support Ron Paul or you dont? So, you claim to be Ron Paul yourself here, huh? Does anyone know what Ron Paul thinks about my question? Unless you are the man himself, you don't.

Dissent is at the core of patriotism, and I embody Ron Paul's courage on this matter by showing dissent with an action of his.

I have to get going, but I will come back later to see what more people have said. Please don't take me to be a troll. I sincerely care about this man winning, and I merely wish to speak my mind.

Check out my post in the "Take Action" area or whatever. It's called "Old people and wrestling." I think I have some fresh ideas on how to continue to spread the Ron Paul revolution.

Peace

Walk off the stage, stop posting.

eh?

[tomcat]

Walk off the stage, stop posting.

eh?

Wow. Just wow. Maybe I shouldn't even come back to such personal attacking?

Nah, I'll be back :)

This is why I like Ron Paul fans. We all have passion!

[Bossobass]

You saying this is basically telling me that Paul has agreed to others belittling his name. Again, Ron Paul doesn't need Fox News, and he should show it.

Let me correct you.

Being blacked out of MSM coverage, RP could travel to every major city in the USA, one after the other, speaking at rallies, and not get the audience he did on Wednesday night...by millions.

Searches, ranks of supporters and donations spike after every televised debate.

Using your logic, he should never have agreed to participate in the debates at all, which would have meant no viable campaign.

Maybe you should devise a way to raise a few million dollars for the campaign so that this bullshit argument might have some meat.

Bosso

[American]

It's sad that you believe someone who shows disagreement is a troll.

Well disagreeing is one thing to actually say Ron Paul took it up the ass from FIXED news is another.



You either support Ron Paul or you dont? So, you claim to be Ron Paul yourself here, huh? Does anyone know what Ron Paul thinks about my question? Unless you are the man himself, you don't.

Well I think his actions speak for them self, he didn't walked off stage and debated the issue. IT that what you mean?



Dissent is at the core of patriotism, and I embody Ron Paul's courage on this matter by showing dissent with an action of his.

It shows you embody Ron Pauls courage by saying he should have tucked tail and run. Keep trying sunshine



I have to get going, but I will come back later to see what more people have said. Please don't take me to be a troll. I sincerely care about this man winning, and I merely wish to speak my mind.

I dont want to take you as a troll, but seriously what did you expect by saying the next president of the United States took it up the ass from a extremely biased news corp in an extremely hostile event.



Check out my post in the "Take Action" area or whatever. It's called "Old people and wrestling." I think I have some fresh ideas on how to continue to spread the Ron Paul revolution.

OK, I shall :)



Peace

Yes

[trispear]

I only read the first page of this thread so I don't know everybodies opinions....

But I think Ron Paul did EXCELLENT. He was forceful ("NO! I take my marching orders from the Constitution!" was the best line of the night) and he made his case.

His exchange with Huckabee was what debates SHOULD LOOK LIKE and was easily the best moment since Paul/Giuliani.

Have you guys noticed the best moments of the debate, where it is actual debate and not the boring, prefabricated responses, always include Ron Paul?

A few more of these debates and RP will be sitting pretty.

[jj111]

What kind of weak candidate takes it up the ass from Fox News? I'd hope not Ron Paul

Tomcat, you are slandering Ron Paul by implying that he is a weak candidate. Ron Paul is a million times stronger a candidate than you could ever hope to be in your wildest dreams.

[ClockwiseSpark]

He did the right thing by standing his ground.
"I take my marching orders from the Constitution!" was the best line of the night and I think it will be remembered as such.

[angelatc]

Wait, so leaving the stage ISN'T a gutsy manly move? I think it takes a helluva lot more man to walk off a stage in protest then to punch someone. I don't think it's been done before in modern American election history..

Protesting what? The sentiment that we should not listen to what our enemies say is oft repeated in the neocon mantra.

It could have been asked in a slightly less confrontational manner, but it is a legitimate question.

He asked RG : "As president, would you continue to protect illegals from what you then called unfair enforcement of our borders?" He also went back to it again later, pointing out that NYC was essentially a sanctuary city and that RG was on record as saying "these are the people we want to protect."

He said to McCain: Senator McCain, when you were backing comprehensive immigration reform this spring, you accused Governor Romney of flip-flopping on this issue. In fact, you said maybe his solution will be to get his small varmint gun and run the Guatemalans off his lawn. <snip> Is the governor playing politics on immigration? And are you now doing the same thing backing a new plan which would enforce the borders but without any longer a path to citizenship?

He asked Huckabee about Huckabee's assertion that anti-illegal immigration efforts are rooted in racism.

He asked McCain and RG about their refusal to sign the tax pledge, and pointed out that RG had raised fees and fines in lieu of raising taxes.

He called Romney "Fee Fee."

He pointed out that ROmney had illegal's working on his lawn crew.

He pointed out that McCain voted against the very Tax cuts that McCain was proudly using as an example of economic success.

[qednick]

Didn't Ronald Reagan have asimilar experience during a debate which was the turning point for his campaign?

From what I recall, he was in debate and they were marginalizing him (just like they do with RP). He grabbed the mic and said words to the effect of "Sir, I have paid good money to be here tonight - you WILL let me speak!".
And then a commentator/moderator said something like "Ladies and gentleman, I think we just found our next president".

If he had walked off stage - his campaign would be over. Simple.

[cjhowe]

On November 5th, 2008 that "NO! I take my marching orders from the Constitution" will be seen as Ron Pauls "I paid for this microphone" moment

Edit: I guess I should have read through the rest of the thread...seconded qednick

[Kuldebar]

Didn't Ronald Reagan have asimilar experience during a debate which was the turning point for his campaign?

From what I recall, he was in debate and they were marginalizing him (just like they do with RP). He grabbed the mic and said words to the effect of "Sir, I have paid good money to be here tonight - you WILL let me speak!".
And then a commentator/moderator said something like "Ladies and gentleman, I think we just found our next president".

If he had walked off stage - his campaign would be over. Simple.

Gednick, the incident occurred as you describe, but not in a normal debate setting.


With the other candidates in single digits, the Nashua Telegraph offered to host a debate between Reagan and Bush. Worried that a newspaper-sponsored debate might violate electoral regulations, Reagan subsequently arranged to fund the event with his own campaign money, inviting the other candidates to participate at short notice. The Bush camp did not learn of Reagan's decision to include the other candidates until the debate was due to commence. Bush refused to participate, which led to an impasse on the stage. As Reagan attempted to explain his decision, the editor of the Nashua Telegraph ordered the sound man to mute Reagan's microphone. A visibly angry Reagan responded "I am paying for this microphone, Mr. Green!" (the editor's name was in fact Jon Breen).[1][2] Eventually the other candidates agreed to leave, and the debate proceeded between Reagan and Bush. Reagan's quote was often repeated as "I paid for this microphone!" and dominated news coverage of the event; Bush did not make an impact with the voters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1980

[LibertyEagle]

The media spin on that would be:

"Ron Paul runs under tough questioning...just like he wants to run out of Iraq."...He stood and fought and won the debate

ABSOLUTELY!!

[catwoman]

I think he handled it GREAT!!! Loved the "We take our marching orders from the Constitution" line. It was PERFECT (or in catwoman language PURRFECT)!!!

[quickmike]

Upon hearing the libel directed against him at the Fox News debate, specifically at the moment he was asked if he took his marching orders from Al Qaida, why did Ron Paul not give a brief explaination that he would not sit there and take such slander and walk off stage?

This would have been the best, and most appropriate response. If I were Paul I would have said that one must look at what premise such a question would have been asked for, and that he must conclude that Fox News was accusing him of outright treason. Under such deliberate attempts to attack his credibility, Ron should have declared he no longer saw it right to stay at the debate and left the stage.

This would have caused SUCH uproar that it would have dominated the night, and it would have dominated the next morning's conversation across the country about how our country is corrupted by such powerful media tycoons. Ron would have been a hero, and we would be wondering how the hell do handle all the volunteers who would be trying to jump on the Ron Paul train.

Personally, I would lose a whole lot of respect for Dr Paul if he would have walked off. It would have made him look like he was a pussy and not up to the challenge those asshats threw at him. He did the right thing by staying and fighting back. I thought that was the best debate performance by him so far, not only for what he said, but under what circumstances they were said.

People like an underdog, and when an underdog stands up to a bully, people really respect that, even if they dont agree with him 100%

Just like in gradeschool............. Remember the little kid that always got picked on by the bully? Never stood up to him and always walked away with a bloody nose and whining ? From what I remember, everyone would laugh at the kid even though he was in the right. But remember when the kid stood up to the bully and went apeshit on him? Whoa, thats when people really got excited and gained respect for him.

Grown ups are nothing more than overgrown school children at heart. They like the same things and respond the same way, they just dont realize it.

[bulloncoins]

TomCat.....taking a break from Dead Fred's campaign?


Walk away....get serious.

Have you ever met the man?

[qednick]

Gednick, the incident occurred as you describe, but not in a normal debate setting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1980

Thanks Kuldebar - I knew it was something like that. I can't remember where I heard about it - may have been on radio.

[Syren123]

Why didn't he walk out? Because he's a grown up, not a 7th grader.

[dude58677]

The moment when Ron Paul pointed his pen at the guy and said "NO!" was the best single moment of the night. He seemed both angry and yet totally controlled. I was very impressed.

Dr. No was at it again.:) :D

[wbbgjr]

Most people wouldn't think it was him against the powers at be. Most people have blind patriotism and would just assume everything in the questioning is correct and that Ron Paul was a kook.

A campaign is basically getting as much exposure as possible. What good would it do if nobody knows about him? If he had walked off he would have been painted as someone that just surrenders. Why would you think the media would paint it in a good light? The media submits whoever has money and whoever has power, that's why you see some media now being a little nicer to Ron Paul, but we're not at the point where he can just walk off.


Wow, this thread is exploding faster then I can keep up


Sends the message he is strong
Sends the message that he has a sense of integrity
Sends the message that he won't take bullying
Sends the message that he wants to participate in a fair debate

"Keeps Americans from hearing more of his views
Keeps Americans from seeing more of his face
Keeps Americans from hearing more of his voice.
Keeps Americans from hearing his name."

Like most Americans where even watching the debate? This would have gotten even the most apathetic American curious about who this man was who stood up to the powers at be.

"Gives every newspaper with the inclination to plug 'Ron Retreats' instead we got a Republicans butt heads with Paul' line."

They already have that inclination, so why even bother? Staying wont change that

[tomcat]

Well, I still stand by what I've said so far, but I think I'll concede that I could have done a better job with persuasion.

I think that if I had titled the post "Ron Paul should have stuck it to Fox News more," I might have gotten a more positive response. Everyone overlooked my suggestion that Paul describe why he would not stand for such libel, and that Fox News should (in more eloquent terms) eat shit and die. This would be the CRUCIAL prelude to him walking off stage.

I'd hit on how Chris Matthews, by asking such a preposterous question, seeks to defame Ron Paul by dishonest tactics. I'd also remind Fox that it is only because of the empowerment by the candidates of their shitty little news network that this debate even took place, and that they have every right to revoke that covanant whenever they see fit.

I'd then cap it off by leaving

I'll also add that I did go too far by saying Ron Paul took it up the ass. I got overzealous there, and it didn't need to be said. But what I was trying to say, which was that Fox News was able to use their power over Ron Paul when Ron could have chastized them for it, I believe to be true.

[devil21]

Can we please close this absurd thread?

[Original_Intent]

No, Ron Paul handled it perfectly, walking off would have been the end of his campaign.

You think some other station would come in and play "white knight" when the entire media establishment loathes him.

Heck, MSNBC might have run a story "Kudos to Fox for running off Ron Paul".

[Thunderbolt]

...

[American]

No we shouldnt close this thread, its containing Tomcat to one thread......:D

Go get'em tiger!!!!

[SeanEdwards]

Upon hearing the libel directed against him at the Fox News debate, specifically at the moment he was asked if he took his marching orders from Al Qaida, why did Ron Paul not give a brief explaination that he would not sit there and take such slander and walk off stage?

This would have been the best, and most appropriate response. If I were Paul I would have said that one must look at what premise such a question would have been asked for, and that he must conclude that Fox News was accusing him of outright treason. Under such deliberate attempts to attack his credibility, Ron should have declared he no longer saw it right to stay at the debate and left the stage.

This would have caused SUCH uproar that it would have dominated the night, and it would have dominated the next morning's conversation across the country about how our country is corrupted by such powerful media tycoons. Ron would have been a hero, and we would be wondering how the hell do handle all the volunteers who would be trying to jump on the Ron Paul train.

No way. Paul had the best one-liner of the election season so far as a result of that question.

He might not have been out of line though if he'd asked the faux news stooge if he took his marching orders from AIPAC.

[ThePieSwindler]

how is this thread at 10 pages?

[John of Des Moines]

Doctor Paul should have followed up his NO!!! with asking Mr. Hume it he (Hume) was accusing him (the Doctor) with treason? Yes or no. Mr Hume would probably say no. To which the Doctor replies Mr. Hume should apologize not only to him (the Doctor) but to his family, his friends, his constituents, his supporters, and America as a whole for even thinking about phrasing a question that could be so easily understood as implying treasonous conduct on the part of the person the question is directed to.

"Sorta like me asking you if you have stopped beating your wife? Isn't it Mr. Hume? In my book your question rates as the worst question ever asked of a presidential candidate."

Now it's easy to play Thursday afternoon quarterback.

[SeanEdwards]

I may look like a troll, but I am no troll. I am as passionate about Ron Paul winning as you all are. I deeply care about him winning, which is why I bring this up

90% of the people slinging the label 'troll' around clearly have no freaking idea what an internet forum troll is. They just call anybody that expresses any kind of divergent opinion a troll as a way to avoid discussion or argument.

[MikeStanart]

I think this is a ridiculous Thread.


The fact of the matter is:

Ron Paul didn't walk off the stage.

We all know Ron Paul is going to save this Country. Lets not dictate his strategies. He's a wise man with many years of political experience.

Get off the boards and get onto the streets; spread the word of RP.

Arguments like this aren't healthy.




Peace.

[tomcat]

He might not have been out of line though if he'd asked the faux news stooge if he took his marching orders from AIPAC.

That would have been golden

But I do agree. Hindsight is easy. Would I have been able to do this if I was in front of a national audience?

[Revolution9]

So, is there no one else who wants to claim Ron Paul would not get invited back to other debates? [In Maximus Aurilius voice] "IS THERE NO ONE ELSE!!?"

Yer a droolldonkey..or a troll. Wise up or piss off.

Randy

[tomcat]

90% of the people slinging the label 'troll' around clearly have no freaking idea what an internet forum troll is. They just call anybody that expresses any kind of divergent opinion a troll as a way to avoid discussion or argument.

I think this deserves repeating

[Revolution9]

90% of the people slinging the label 'troll' around clearly have no freaking idea what an internet forum troll is. They just call anybody that expresses any kind of divergent opinion a troll as a way to avoid discussion or argument.

He may not be a troll but hs posting was a troller. What a ludicrous bunch of halfwit diatribe..Walk off the satge indeed. Guess the fellow doesn't own a set of testes to guage how a real man might deal with the issue. I certainly would have stood there and let them have the shotgun barrels of truth hits them twixt the eyes.. Would you have ealked off? I don't think so.. You grab onto an argument and go for blood too..

Dr NO! rocked the house.

randy

[tomcat]

Arguments like this aren't healthy.


Fred Thompson said this, just yesterday: Dissent makes the US 'weak,' carries a 'heavy price'

You, sir, are saying the same thing. I hope you don't aspire to be like Fred Thompson

[Spike Kojima]

Fred Thompson said this, just yesterday: Dissent makes the US 'weak,' carries a 'heavy price'

You, sir, are saying the same thing. I hope you don't aspire to be like Fred Thompson

Thats different, not everyone agrees on social or foreign policy in the U.S but I think I'm safe in saying that everyone here wants Dr. Paul elected.

[1000-points-of-fright]

tomcat, how old are you? I don't mean that in a condescending way. I really want to know.

The MSM is biased and sucks. Yes, we get it. Unfortunately, at this point in history they are the best medium to reach a wide enough audience necessary to win an election. The internet is great for organizing a movement, but not everyone is wired like we are. A substantial segment of the population doesn't even have a computer. People tend to see the world from their own limited experience. Everyone you know may have a computer and hate the MSM, but you don't know everyone.

So as distasteful as it may be, we do need FOX and CNN and ABC and all the rest of them.

Why did Ron Paul not walk off stage? For the same reason you don't issue a defiant statement and leave the country? Aren't you just taking it up the ass from the government by staying?

[PAforRP]

Had he walked off the stage, he wouldve been labeled a drama queen, and wouldve been the laughingstock of the media, and the internet. He wouldve lost quite a few supporters, and it wouldve been the end of his campaign. Any President needs to be able to field tough, even unfair questions from the press, as they are thrown at the President at every news conference. Dr. Paul held up well, and came out looking great.

Heck, I wouldve thought he was a weenie if he had walked off. Plus, we wouldn't have seen his exchange with Hannity afterwards.

[Kuldebar]

tomcat, how old are you? I don't mean that in a condescending way. I really want to know.

The MSM is biased and sucks. Yes, we get it. Unfortunately, at this point in history they are the best medium to reach a wide enough audience necessary to win an election. The internet is great for organizing a movement, but not everyone is wired like we are. A substantial segment of the population doesn't even have a computer. People tend to see the world from their own limited experience. Everyone you know may have a computer and hate the MSM, but you don't know everyone.

So as distasteful as it may be, we do need FOX and CNN and ABC and all the rest of them.

Why did Ron Paul not walk off stage? For the same reason you don't issue a defiant statement and leave the country? Aren't you just taking it up the ass from the government by staying?

Great points, additionally, tomcat hasn't "gave up" and left the forum, so either he doesn't practice what he preaches or, his theory doesn't really work in practice as a way of persuading people to change their viewpoint.

Obviously, tomcat believes in sticking to it and making his argument.

[tomcat]

tomcat, how old are you? I don't mean that in a condescending way. I really want to know.

Why did Ron Paul not walk off stage? For the same reason you don't issue a defiant statement and leave the country? Aren't you just taking it up the ass from the government by staying?

I'm 21.

First off, this country is the best one out there. There isn't any better one to go to. Secondly, it would do no good. I would not be making any statement of worth to others. I think the Ron Paul situation is different in that it WOULD make a difference in that the world is watching, and in secret rooting for the underdog. They WANT someone to stick it to those in power, even if they are Fox News watchers. No one hates an underdog, especially if he is being given unfair treatment. They will just relate to him more!

By the way, thanks for your criticism. It is welcomed, especially in light of most of the personal attacks on this thread.

[Chester Copperpot]

I'm 21.

First off, this country is the best one out there. There isn't any better one to go to. Secondly, it would do no good. I would not be making any statement of worth to others. I think the Ron Paul situation is different in that it WOULD make a difference in that the world is watching, and in secret rooting for the underdog. They WANT someone to stick it to those in power, even if they are Fox News watchers. No one hates an underdog, especially if he is being given unfair treatment. They will just relate to him more!

By the way, thanks for your criticism. It is welcomed, especially in light of most of the personal attacks on this thread.

DOnt you trolls have it figured out by now? You cant fool the Ron Paul movement, because its a movement about common sense and knowledge. Its not about Ron Paul per se. Youll figure it out after Ron Paul is president and you'll silently thank us all for the work we're doing now.

[Kuldebar]

I'm 21.

First off, this country is the best one out there. There isn't any better one to go to. Secondly, it would do no good. I would not be making any statement of worth to others. I think the Ron Paul situation is different in that it WOULD make a difference in that the world is watching, and in secret rooting for the underdog. They WANT someone to stick it to those in power, even if they are Fox News watchers. No one hates an underdog, especially if he is being given unfair treatment. They will just relate to him more!

By the way, thanks for your criticism. It is welcomed, especially in light of most of the personal attacks on this thread.


Belize ain't that bad, or even rural Mexico. :p

But, since you admitted you are only 21, obviously you know nothing! <just kidding>

There's this song called the Gambler, one verse says:


You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when youre sittin at the table.
Therell be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.

It kind of describes the sort of choices Ron Paul has to face. He has spent a lot of time in philosophical fights and is an old hand when it comes to knowing when to walk away. He played it well this time, as he consistently does. I can't think of a single time where walking off angry in a debate would be a good move.

It's always an option, I suppose, but not a good one, unless you are being shot at.

[Bob Cochran]

Upon hearing the libel directed against him at the Fox News debate, specifically at the moment he was asked if he took his marching orders from Al Qaida, why did Ron Paul not give a brief explaination that he would not sit there and take such slander and walk off stage?
They WANTED him to do that. Then, he'd have been taking his marching orders from the Neocons!!!

I admire his toughness for standing his ground. A President can't be a guy who wants to take his little red wagon and go home if he doesn't like what people are saying.

Ron Paul is who he is because he is mentally tough, an independent thinker.

Y'know what? Most people HATE that. They really do.

But when its in such a gentlemanly package as Dr. Paul, it's easy to like him. Those of us who are seeking the truth see the wisdom in his thinking.

[Colleen]

I think he stayed for at least two reasons: He has too much class to be manipulated by his inferiors; he stayed for the majority of people who support him...folks like us!!!

He is my hero!!!

[MikeStanart]

Fred Thompson said this, just yesterday: Dissent makes the US 'weak,' carries a 'heavy price'

You, sir, are saying the same thing. I hope you don't aspire to be like Fred Thompson



We're on the same team here;

We all want to see RP as President, and obviously your remarks are causing drama. Why not get onto the streets and spread the Revolution.....instead of causing hatred within our own ranks? Please find another outlet for your built up frustrations.

If you're looking for Drama; I hear there's re-runs of Law and Order on TNT. :D

[Leslie Webb]

It was good he stayed on. "I take my marching orders from our Consititution" was a great riposte. For seventy two years old, he's quick-witted.

[1000-points-of-fright]

I'm 21.

First off, this country is the best one out there. There isn't any better one to go to. Secondly, it would do no good. I would not be making any statement of worth to others. I think the Ron Paul situation is different in that it WOULD make a difference in that the world is watching, and in secret rooting for the underdog. They WANT someone to stick it to those in power, even if they are Fox News watchers. No one hates an underdog, especially if he is being given unfair treatment. They will just relate to him more!

By the way, thanks for your criticism. It is welcomed, especially in light of most of the personal attacks on this thread.

Your age explains the independently defiant philosophy you've been advocating. That's not bad and it is totally natural. But along with that great passion and defiance there is also naïveté. Keep in mind, you've only been culturally and politically aware for 6 yrs at most and the internet has always been a part of that.

It took a few decades for broadcast news to seriously compete with printed media. Then 24 hr cable news slowly became dominant. The internet is only now really making it's mark in this election cycle. But the old media is so entrenched that even newspapers STILL have substantial clout in elections. Until the game truly changes we still have to play it.

Think about why Ron Paul is running as a Republican. When it comes to politics and government, more often than not you really do have to fight from the inside.

Unless you just go the armed rebellion route.

[hard@work]

Upon hearing the libel directed against him at the Fox News debate, specifically at the moment he was asked if he took his marching orders from Al Qaida, why did Ron Paul not give a brief explaination that he would not sit there and take such slander and walk off stage?

This would have been the best, and most appropriate response. If I were Paul I would have said that one must look at what premise such a question would have been asked for, and that he must conclude that Fox News was accusing him of outright treason. Under such deliberate attempts to attack his credibility, Ron should have declared he no longer saw it right to stay at the debate and left the stage.

This would have caused SUCH uproar that it would have dominated the night, and it would have dominated the next morning's conversation across the country about how our country is corrupted by such powerful media tycoons. Ron would have been a hero, and we would be wondering how the hell do handle all the volunteers who would be trying to jump on the Ron Paul train.


Because he won.

[tomcat]

I still wish Ron had done this. The blatant immorality and backstabbingness of that Fox News comment would have gotten people furious at the establishment, and Ron would have looked like a true exciting underdog.

Well, it's time to start working on saving my country. Make politics local again! If you can't beat city hall, BECOME city hall!

[JordanQ72]

I said the same thing about the last CNN debate. Ron should have just walked off after they skipped him over and over and over in terms of question time. He needed to do something big and grab some media attention, he didn't, and got the exact result I expected he would get moving forward.

And to the naysayers that spouted off, I never did get a response as to what there was to lose even if the media spun it negatively. It's not like we were on track to win anywhere or anything. You see a shot, you take it. It's like a poker game. You sit around just limping in on blinds, YOU ARE GUARANTEED TO LOSE. When you get the hand you needed, you put it all in, and what happens happens, but at least you give it a shot. Standing around quietly in the back got us exactly the result I always knew it would.

[Sauron]

I said the same thing about the last CNN debate. Ron should have just walked off after they skipped him over and over and over in terms of question time. He needed to do something big and grab some media attention, he didn't, and got the exact result I expected he would get moving forward.

And to the naysayers that spouted off, I never did get a response as to what there was to lose even if the media spun it negatively. It's not like we were on track to win anywhere or anything. You see a shot, you take it. It's like a poker game. You sit around just limping in on blinds, YOU ARE GUARANTEED TO LOSE. When you get the hand you needed, you put it all in, and what happens happens, but at least you give it a shot. Standing around quietly in the back got us exactly the result I always knew it would.
His big chance to come out big was after the Tea Party money bomb. He broke the one day record for donations, and he could've said it was great that Don Black donated to him and encouraged his followers to as well. Instead, he went on PBS of all places and said the we "muddy the waters" and he "doesn't need our money". Then on the next debate he said all that money was a burden that he didn't know what to do with. The Tea Party was Ron Paul's peak, and he shunned a lot of his supporters who made it happen.

[affa]

This was a bad idea when you first posted it and it's a bad idea now.

His "No, I take my marching orders from the constitution" was one of his best lines EVER. It was used and reused in video after video.

Make no mistake, if he had walked off the media would have used the footage to destroy him.

[affa]

His big chance to come out big was after the Tea Party money bomb. He broke the one day record for donations, and he could've said it was great that Don Black donated to him and encouraged his followers to as well. Instead, he went on PBS of all places and said the we "muddy the waters" and he "doesn't need our money". Then on the next debate he said all that money was a burden that he didn't know what to do with. The Tea Party was Ron Paul's peak, and he shunned a lot of his supporters who made it happen.

You do not represent us. You do not represent Dr. Ron Paul.

[Kilrain]

It was by far his best debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZXM3h4jig

[Sauron]

You do not represent us. You do not represent Dr. Ron Paul.

Like it or not, I do and have. Supporters represent their candidate, that's how it is. Unfortunately, Ron Paul and some of his supporters like to deny this. That's what killed his chances. Don't disassociate from your base, especially when they do so much to help you out.

[JordanQ72]

the media would have used the footage to destroy him.

Right, I mean, because right now it's not like there's literally 0% chance of him getting the nomination and a strong likelihood of him losing his Congressional seat, nope, it's all coming up Aces. And just to repeat what I said before


And to the naysayers that spouted off, I never did get a response as to what there was to lose even if the media spun it negatively. It's not like we were on track to win anywhere or anything. You see a shot, you take it. It's like a poker game. You sit around just limping in on blinds, YOU ARE GUARANTEED TO LOSE. When you get the hand you needed, you put it all in, and what happens happens, but at least you give it a shot. Standing around quietly in the back got us exactly the result I always knew it would.