Obama is a Muslim, or Why Texans Are Dumb

[yongrel]

From the Free Turkey:
http://thefreeturkey.com/2008/10/30/obama-is-a-muslim-or-why-texans-are-dumb/

Reader's Digest Version: 23% of Texans think that Obama is a Muslim. *facepalm*

[dannno]

I really hate Politifact, but here is what they have to say.

It's not all black and white, he did go to a public school in Indonesia that was primarily Muslim, but they were not strict or fanatical Muslims, apparently. His father and his step father were both born and raised Muslim.



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/237/



"Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world."

Chain e-mail on Monday, October 1st, 2007 in
Obama attended an Indonesian public school
Pants on fire!

An anonymous e-mail makes a number of specious claims to promote its Manchurian Candidate-style conspiracy theory, including, “Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.”

Like many Internet smears, the e-mail starts with a bit of truth before lurching wildly into fantasy. It’s true that Obama’s father was from Africa, and Obama has said his father was born a Muslim. Obama's stepfather was from Indonesia, raised a Muslim. But there’s no evidence that either man was particularly religious as an adult — Obama's father is sometimes described as an atheist, while his stepfather drank alcohol, forbidden in Islam. Obama's American mother, Ann Dunham, rejected organized religion, according to several accounts. Obama has summed up his own faith history by saying he didn't grow up in any particular religious tradition. (Obama's mother, father and stepfather are all deceased.)

Obama lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather from 1967 to 1971, approximately from the ages of 6 to 10. In 1971, he returned to the United States and graduated from high school in Hawaii.

“Madrassa” is an Arabic word for “school,” but Americans generally understand the word to mean a school where anti-Western Islamic ideology is taught. The e-mail says the school taught Wahabism, a “RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.” Westerners typically understand Wahabism to be an austere form of Islam based on a literal reading of the Koran. So is that the type of school Obama attended?

No. Indonesia is a Muslim country, and Obama attended a public school there, which taught a small amount of religion. CNN, the Associated Press, the Los Angeles Times and the Chicago Tribune investigated the e-mail claims by visiting the school and interviewing former teachers and students who were there at the same time as Obama. These investigations found a public school where students wore Western clothing and prayer was a small part of the curriculum. The Chicago Tribune reported the school was “so progressive that teachers wore miniskirts and all students were encouraged to celebrate Christmas.”

PolitiFact found no on-the-record sources able to substantiate a claim that the school taught Wahabism or any other form of austere Islam. The great preponderance of substantiated evidence indicates Obama attended a public school that taught a small amount of mainstream Islam. The news reports say that Obama’s registration form indicates his religion was Muslim, but there are errors on the forms and it seems reasonable to assume that he was registered as Muslim simply because his stepfather was Muslim. And it's worth noting — as the chain e-mail does — that Obama also attended a Catholic school in Indonesia for several years.

So while the e-mail gets a few things right, its contention that Obama attended a madrassa that taught Wahabism seems to be a wholesale invention designed to frighten voters. We rate the claim Pants-on-Fire wrong.

[TER]

Sadly, I thought the number would be higher than 23%...

[mport1]

From the Free Turkey:
http://thefreeturkey.com/2008/10/30/obama-is-a-muslim-or-why-texans-are-dumb/

Reader's Digest Version: 23% of Texans think that Obama is a Muslim. *facepalm*

Wow...

[LibertyEagle]

Nevermind.. I read your blog. Oops.

[yongrel]

EDIT: Shazam...

[Kludge]

Nevermind.. I read your blog. Oops.

:p

[tmosley]

No, that means that 23% of Texans are dumb.

Imagine how dumb the average American is, then shriek in terror when you realize that half of them are dumber than that!

Now, if only the bottom 23% of Texans are that dumb, I guess that makes us a pretty smart state.

[LibertyEagle]

:p

:o Sorry Yongrel.

[yongrel]

No, that means that 23% of Texans are dumb.

Imagine how dumb the average American is, then shriek in terror when you realize that half of them are dumber than that!

Now, if only the bottom 23% of Texans are that dumb, I guess that makes us a pretty smart state.

Only 5-10% of the rest of America has the same conviction :D

[Dustancostine]

I was out putting up signs for a Congressional Candidate and met a nice old lady who just knew he was a muslim.

[1000-points-of-fright]

I went to a Jesuit high school. Both my parents are Catholic. I'm agnostic. So much for education and upbringing.

FYI: If you live in Indonesia, could luck finding a public school that does not have some sort of Muslim leanings.

[JoshLowry]

Ron Paul makes up for all the idiots in Texas. :)

[ELT]

That is nothing, if Obama becomes president (which it's looking like he will be), then that means the majority of people who voted actually think he's a good choice and drank his coolaid up like water...that's worse than those who think he's a muslim or black (which he's not black either and more people think he's black than muslim I believe)...

doesn't really matter, the only real choice this time around was Ron Paul...

:o

[kombayn]

Even if Obama was Muslim, why does it even matter? It's not like he's suddenly going to strap-on a bomb and blow-up the White House. We have plenty of Muslims that serve in our military. I still can't believe they make such an issue out of it and make it blatantly racist. At least attack Obama for his socialist leanings, insulting Muslims is not the answer.

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Must be all those fools up in Dallas.

[werdd]

How can you prove that he wasn't raised a muslim?

They can't even prove that the bastard was even born in US territory at this point.

[roho76]

What's really sad is that Muslim to most people = Terrorist. That is the picture that has been painted for the last 8 years. Many Americans could not even find that area on a map and knew little if nothing about their way off life. This was purely planned and well executed. This was the #1 objective right out of the starting gate. Still to this day those two words will be uttered back to back in what ever conversation or news cast might be happening and a lot of people will subconsciously take it in then they will go to the box and vote for McCain. Sadness ensues.

[Liberty Star]

In that case, best punishment for that dumb segment of Texans would be to elect the "black" Obama :)
How stupidly prejudiced are these idiots.

[Anti Federalist]

Ron Paul makes up for all the idiots in Texas. :)

That's because he's originally from Pennsylvania.

Hoo, I hate a bunch of Texas.;):D:rolleyes:

[cheapseats]

What's really sad is that Muslim to most people = Terrorist. That is the picture that has been painted for the last 8 years. Many Americans could not even find that area on a map and knew little if nothing about their way off life. This was purely planned and well executed. This was the #1 objective right out of the starting gate. Still to this day those two words will be uttered back to back in what ever conversation or news cast might be happening and a lot of people will subconsciously take it in then they will go to the box and vote for McCain. Sadness ensues.

Yep...globalization of the Southern Strategy.

[cheapseats]

It's not all black and white, he did go to a public school in Indonesia that was primarily Muslim, but they were not strict or fanatical Muslims, apparently. His father and his step father were both born and raised Muslim.





I was out putting up signs for a Congressional Candidate and met a nice old lady who just knew he was a muslim.


It is not as though the possibility of his being Muslim has been glommed onto completely at random. People are not exactly speculating about his being an interplanetary alien, the Messiah angle notwithstanding.

[cheapseats]

I went to a Jesuit high school. Both my parents are Catholic. I'm agnostic. So much for education and upbringing.

I have also rejected the Catholicism of my youth...doesn't mean I'm not still influenced by that which was drilled into my head in my formative years.

As well, Catholicism does not have a radical arm with marching orders from God to kill me now that I have broken ranks.




FYI: If you live in Indonesia, could luck finding a public school that does not have some sort of Muslim leanings.

Correctamundo.

I don't know about you, but I was Catholic because I was born to a Catholic man. My mother converted to my father's religion.

Obama was born to a Muslim man. Subsequent to Muslim #1's disappearance, Obama's mother married another Muslim man and moved little Barack to a Muslim nation, where he attended Muslim schools.

Christianity enters the picture in his mid-20's, according to his straight-to-classic Race Speech. Which is also about the time he went into politics.

[cheapseats]

Even if Obama was Muslim, why does it even matter?

It matters if he is dissembling about it, don't you think? He has said a number of things to date that vary considerably from his actions. Public financing, telecom immunity, no lobbyists in the White House...




It's not like he's suddenly going to strap-on a bomb and blow-up the White House.

Of course not.

Though it bears mention that 9/11, the sinking of the Titanic and the fall of Rome, to name but a few, were also held to be impossible.




We have plenty of Muslims that serve in our military.


Honorably, no doubt. Muslim is no more a one-size-fits-all deal than Christianity is. You got your good apples and you got your bad apples. But as bad apples go, I'm thinking that, now that the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition are behind us, Christianity does not feature a radically and demonstrably vengeful burn-it-to-the-ground-take-no-prisoners sect.




I still can't believe they make such an issue out of it and make it blatantly racist. At least attack Obama for his socialist leanings, insulting Muslims is not the answer.

Insulting ANYONE is not the answer. Do unto others...you know the drill.

HOWEVER, comma, there IS a radical fundamentalist branch of Islam...into which Osama Bin Laden was recruited, by an instructor, at a posh private high school in London...and this Entourage of Extremists DOES have marching orders from Allah to give us the old heave-ho.

Watch Henry Paulson loot the Treasury and know that Americans are among the most gullible people ON EARTH. "Oh! Look! A Trojan Horse! Seeee, the world DOES still think we're the bee's knees."

[cheapseats]

How can you prove that he wasn't raised a muslim?

Can't be done.



They can't even prove that the bastard was even born in US territory at this point.

When I consider how easily and how swiftly he could lay that drama to rest, and then when I consider how he steadfastly doesn't do it, I am left to to suppose that he is hiding SOMETHING...maybe it is his birthplace, maybe it is something even MORE provocative and the birth certificate thing is "just" a distraction.

We are easily distracted. No staying power at all when it comes to gettin' to the bottom of things.

[libertarian4321]

How can you prove that he wasn't raised a muslim?



Okay, you're about to get a lesson in logic.

Try this: Prove YOU weren't raised a muslim. Go ahead, I'll wait...

Yeah, I know, you can't do it. You also can't "prove" that you don't run around the house wearing your Mom's bra and panties every day.

You can't disprove a negative.

I can claim you are a wife beater, a muslim, a terrorist, and a dog raper.

You can't "disprove" any of it.

Does that mean you are a wife beating, muslim, terrorist, dog raper?

Get it now?

The fact that Obama can't "disprove" that he's a Muslim no more makes him a muslim than the fact that you can't "disprove" my allegation that you rape puppies makes you a dog rapist.

[cheapseats]

Okay, you're about to get a lesson in logic.

Try this: Prove YOU weren't raised a muslim. Go ahead, I'll wait...

Yeah, I know, you can't do it. You also can't "prove" that you don't run around the house wearing your Mom's bra and panties every day.

You can't disprove a negative.

I can claim you are a wife beater, a muslim, a terrorist, and a dog raper.

You can't "disprove" any of it.

Does that mean you are a wife beating, muslim, terrorist, dog raper?

Get it now?

The fact that Obama can't "disprove" that he's a Muslim no more makes him a muslim than the fact that you can't "disprove" my allegation that you rape puppies makes you a dog rapist.

Disingenuous. Speculation about Muslim influences were not plucked out of thin air. The man was born to a Muslim man, then was raised in the household of another Muslim man...in a Muslim country, attending Muslim schools...until he entered a posh private school in Hawaii.

Moreover, that Barack Obama is running for the presidency of the Disunited States of America puts rather a heavier burden of proof on him.

[werdd]

Okay, you're about to get a lesson in logic.

Try this: Prove YOU weren't raised a muslim. Go ahead, I'll wait...

Yeah, I know, you can't do it. You also can't "prove" that you don't run around the house wearing your Mom's bra and panties every day.

You can't disprove a negative.

I can claim you are a wife beater, a muslim, a terrorist, and a dog raper.

You can't "disprove" any of it.

Does that mean you are a wife beating, muslim, terrorist, dog raper?

Get it now?

The fact that Obama can't "disprove" that he's a Muslim no more makes him a muslim than the fact that you can't "disprove" my allegation that you rape puppies makes you a dog rapist.

Exactly, so then i beg the OP's question why 23% of texans are dumb?

Because they dont buy the bullshit shoved down their throats by the media??

IMO, these people are less brainwash-worthy than the rest. They realize you can publicly profess you are a christian, then come home during the week drink blood worship satan and fuck pigs. Except, they think its a strong possibility that he is a closet muslim, and there is significant evidence to support he was raised so.

It's kind of a right of passage in US politics to make everyone believe you really are a christian.

[kombayn]

It matters if he is dissembling about it, don't you think? He has said a number of things to date that vary considerably from his actions. Public financing, telecom immunity, no lobbyists in the White House...

He's not a muslim, at worst, he's a follower of former Black Panthers which have toned down their rhetoric, certain people (Jermiah Wright) still hate the white man, etc. But I can show you a lot of people that hate the "white man" without using those type of words.


Of course not.

Though it bears mention that 9/11, the sinking of the Titanic and the fall of Rome, to name but a few, were also held to be impossible.

What does this have anything to do with Obama and him being a Muslim? I'm sorry but Muslim-Americans do not share the Middle Eastern Islam Extremist philosophies of blowing shit up.


Honorably, no doubt. Muslim is no more a one-size-fits-all deal than Christianity is. You got your good apples and you got your bad apples. But as bad apples go, I'm thinking that, now that the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition are behind us, Christianity does not feature a radically and demonstrably vengeful burn-it-to-the-ground-take-no-prisoners sect.

Wow, you're really delusional and it's quite disturbing that you so easily bad-mouth the "bad-sect" of Muslims and try to play off that Christians are not just as crazy? The KKK ring a bell to you? Church-loving race-hating bigots, anyone? What about Polygamists?


Insulting ANYONE is not the answer. Do unto others...you know the drill.

HOWEVER, comma, there IS a radical fundamentalist branch of Islam...into which Osama Bin Laden was recruited, by an instructor, at a posh private high school in London...and this Entourage of Extremists DOES have marching orders from Allah to give us the old heave-ho.

Watch Henry Paulson loot the Treasury and know that Americans are among the most gullible people ON EARTH. "Oh! Look! A Trojan Horse! Seeee, the world DOES still think we're the bee's knees."

The KKK is a radical fundamentalist branch of Christianity? What's your point? What's this rant trying to prove? Just say it, you think Obama is going to be a terrorist or what? Open your eyes, this Obama is Muslim crap is looked at from a purely racist stand-point. If he was "Joe the Plumber" (I really dislike this idiot Joe.) but spoke on Obama's talking points, people just kick and scream about him being a socialist or something similar to that.

Race wouldn't even be a factor, it's all about race and to say otherwise is foolish. If it was Bill Richardson as the Democratic nominee, the same thing would happen and I would expect to see a couple wetback comments and "He's going to open the border to all Mexicans and Latinos!!!!!!" It's total b.s. and I just get extremely peeved at seeing these comments all over the board it's foolish. Obama's religion shouldn't matter, no matter what! Remember the 1st amendment? Or do we casually forget that because Obama is black and possibly a black muslim, big 'effin deal.

[NewEnd]

FYI: If you live in Indonesia, could luck finding a public school that does not have some sort of Muslim leanings.

I have a friend from Indonesia, a Christian.

Just because you attend a school with the majority religion leanings, does not, in any way, make you a member of said religion.

I also have a mormon friend that attended Catholic school for a few years.

[libertarian4321]

Exactly, so then i beg the OP's question why 23% of texans are dumb?

Because they dont buy the bullshit shoved down their throats by the media??

IMO, these people are less brainwash-worthy than the rest. They realize you can publicly profess you are a christian, then come home during the week drink blood worship satan and fuck pigs. Except, they think its a strong possibility that he is a closet muslim, and there is significant evidence to support he was raised so.

It's kind of a right of passage in US politics to make everyone believe you really are a christian.

There are a lot of less intelligent and less educated people who will believe anything they hear about someone they don't like.

Texas is a state that is heavily conservative, and inundated with right wing talk radio- not just the national stuff (Limbaugh, Savage and their ilk), but local yahoos as well.

So its not surprising that a fair percentage of the less intelligent and less educated wing nuts would fall for this stuff.

BTW, note that the vast majority of Texans do NOT believe this nonsense- so there is some hope.

[libertarian4321]

Disingenuous. Speculation about Muslim influences were not plucked out of thin air. The man was born to a Muslim man, then was raised in the household of another Muslim man...in a Muslim country, attending Muslim schools...until he entered a posh private school in Hawaii.

Moreover, that Barack Obama is running for the presidency of the Disunited States of America puts rather a heavier burden of proof on him.

Actually, the proper word to describe the "secret Muslim" nonsense is "demagoguery."

Its easy to do- take some tenuous connection to some "fact", attach a bunch of BS to it, then say "disprove it" (a logical impossibility)- fyi, this kind of "logic" is used to create conspiracy theories all the time, too.

Watch how easy it is:

John McCain was in a Vietnamese POW camp for years. During that time, he was brainwashed- turned into a "Manchurian Candidate". His Communist controllers are just waiting for their chance to control America once McCain gets elected!

Can you or anyone else "disprove" this? Of course you can't (goes back to my previous post about disproving a negative).

Was it just "plucked from the air". Of course it was- but you can't PROVE that it was, there are some true elements to the story (McCain was in a Communist POW camp, just as Obama did live in Indonesia).

Does that make it true?

OF COURSE NOT!

But you repeat it often enough, you will convince a few nimrods that its true- you can never underestimate the stupidity and gullibility of the average American. BTW, there are some people who DO believe this McCain theory, even though it hasn't really be "pushed" the way the "Muslim" nonsense has.

[1000-points-of-fright]

I have a friend from Indonesia, a Christian.

Just because you attend a school with the majority religion leanings, does not, in any way, make you a member of said religion.

I also have a mormon friend that attended Catholic school for a few years.

That was my point. If you live in a country where all the public schools have a religious curriculum you either send your kid to one of them, pay for a private school, or keep him at home.

[libertarian4321]

I have a friend from Indonesia, a Christian.

Just because you attend a school with the majority religion leanings, does not, in any way, make you a member of said religion.

I also have a mormon friend that attended Catholic school for a few years.

Exactly- my wife attended Catholic schools from grade school through prep school- the ones with nuns and the whole nine yards.

She's not Catholic and has no desire to be Catholic.

[cheapseats]

- you can never underestimate the stupidity and gullibility of the average American.

And therein lies the dilemma.

Forget stupidity, which abounds. Americans are the most gullible people, I think, on the face of the entire planet.

IF the light-skinned, finely-featured Muslim WERE the spearhead of a long range dastardly plot...fifty years is as NOTHING in the Middle Eastern time frame...Americans, WHILE THEY ARE AT WAR WITH A MUSLIM NATION, would be the very FIRST people to haul a Trojan Horse right smack into the middle of the living room.

Look! Manna from heaven! There IS a God!

Is it far-fetched, is it outlandish, does it defy believability? You bet...made to order for a nation of pie-in-the-sky Extremists.

And we are, pie-in-the-sky Extremists.

We are the most powerful nation on earth. We still kick ass. Everyone wants to be us. We can do no wrong. We cannot spend enough money or acquire enough stuff. We legislate morality even as flat-out liars and thieves posture as leaders and captains of industry while, concurrently, children AND VICTIMS...sometimes shit DOES happen...are left to fend for themselves against a stacked deck. Extremes.

Change? We're up for change? I observe that Elite Extremists...those with enough money and guilt to weather the Government Grab and those who will be its recipients...are pinning America's entire recovery on one man.

Extremism is all fine and well in sports and arts. It has no place in governance of a sprawling land mass populated by widely differing folk.

Demagoguery is bad, period.

McCain is, hopefully, the last of THAT particular Bad. There is ALWAYS another Bad, not least because those who overthrow Bad quite predictably adopt the worst traits of those they ejected. Obama is the FIRST of another Bad...brand new start, heading arguably in the right direction in the exact wrong way.

The truth is that America will have a re-balancing of its wealth toward something more reminiscent of parity, or America will go under. What we've got on our hands is not a sustainable paradigm...that's why all hell is breaking loose.

But Obama's solution is the equivalent of our airlifting food to a starving nation rather than teaching them how to farm.

Eventually, there is no more fuel or working aircraft to carry food even if there was any to spare, which there isn't...because people haven't learned how to farm, they have waited for delivery of that which they need. Prosperity is not thusly generated, from the bottom up.

On the face of things, Obama is worse for what ails us. This is not to say that McCain isn't awful, because he is. The big difference is that no one's buyin' his line. Look at the size of Obama's crowds and know that PLENTY of people, ironically, buy the idea that there IS such a thing as a free lunch.

Those who RELISH America tumbling lower as a means of gaining power themselves are left to their own reason and vote. An argument can be made to support the position, plus everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own vote.

But there ARE people who are legitimately Undecided. Undecided, with a date of decision bearing down, falls well within the icky end of the spectrum. Not sure, not sure, what's best, what's best...WANTING to do the right thing. Frankly, how DARE Ron Paul supporters, of all people, to mock and insult those who argue that John McCain is less bad and potentially critically less bad than Barack Obama.

If RonPaulForums means to be exactly that...Ron Paul supporters only, preaching only Ron Paul platform to other Ron Paul supporters, that is a different story. Then I have been out of line and I apologize.

But I would remind Ron Paul supporters that your movement lacks heavy hitter numbers. You will become more inclusive, or you will remain on the margin. Divide and conquer is top-notch on the effectiveness scale but, like it or not, so is safety in numbers.

[NewEnd]

And therein lies the dilemma.

Forget stupidity, which abounds. Americans are the most gullible people, I think, on the face of the entire planet.

IF the light-skinned, finely-featured Muslim WERE the spearhead of a long range dastardly plot...fifty years is as NOTHING in the Middle Eastern time frame...Americans, WHILE THEY ARE AT WAR WITH A MUSLIM NATION, would be the very FIRST people to haul a Trojan Horse right smack into the middle of the living room.

Look! Manna from heaven! There IS a God!

Is it far-fetched, is it outlandish, does it defy believability? You bet...made to order for a nation of pie-in-the-sky Extremists.

And we are, pie-in-the-sky Extremists.

We are the most powerful nation on earth. We still kick ass. Everyone wants to be us. We can do no wrong. We cannot spend enough money or acquire enough stuff. We legislate morality even as flat-out liars and thieves posture as leaders and captains of industry while, concurrently, children AND VICTIMS...sometimes shit DOES happen...are left to fend for themselves against a stacked deck. Extremes.

Change? We're up for change? I observe that Elite Extremists...those with enough money and guilt to weather the Government Grab and those who will be its recipients...are pinning America's entire recovery on one man.

Extremism is all fine and well in sports and arts. It has no place in governance of a sprawling land mass populated by widely differing folk.

Demagoguery is bad, period.

McCain is, hopefully, the last of THAT particular Bad. There is ALWAYS another Bad, not least because those who overthrow Bad quite predictably adopt the worst traits of those they ejected. Obama is the FIRST of another Bad...brand new start, heading arguably in the right direction in the exact wrong way.

The truth is that America will have a re-balancing of its wealth toward something more reminiscent of parity, or America will go under. What we've got on our hands is not a sustainable paradigm...that's why all hell is breaking loose.

But Obama's solution is the equivalent of our airlifting food to a starving nation rather than teaching them how to farm.

Eventually, there is no more fuel or working aircraft to carry food even if there was any to spare, which there isn't...because people haven't learned how to farm, they have waited for delivery of that which they need. Prosperity is not thusly generated, from the bottom up.

On the face of things, Obama is worse for what ails us. This is not to say that McCain isn't awful, because he is. The big difference is that no one's buyin' his line. Look at the size of Obama's crowds and know that PLENTY of people, ironically, buy the idea that there IS such a thing as a free lunch.

Those who RELISH America tumbling lower as a means of gaining power themselves are left to their own reason and vote. An argument can be made to support the position, plus everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own vote.

But there ARE people who are legitimately Undecided. Undecided, with a date of decision bearing down, falls well within the icky end of the spectrum. Not sure, not sure, what's best, what's best...WANTING to do the right thing. Frankly, how DARE Ron Paul supporters, of all people, to mock and insult those who argue that John McCain is less bad and potentially critically less bad than Barack Obama.

If RonPaulForums means to be exactly that...Ron Paul supporters only, preaching only Ron Paul platform to other Ron Paul supporters, that is a different story. Then I have been out of line and I apologize.

But I would remind Ron Paul supporters that your movement lacks heavy hitter numbers. You will become more inclusive, or you will remain on the margin. Divide and conquer is top-notch on the effectiveness scale but, like it or not, so is safety in numbers.

Caring that Barack Obama is a Muslim is American ignorance.

[cheapseats]

Caring that Barack Obama is a Muslim is American ignorance.

Dismissing out-of-hand even the possibility of fraud and conspiracy when we are DROWNING in fraud and conspiracy doesn't speak to brilliance, either.



http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=115960&d=30&m=10&y=2008&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom

arab news

Thursday 30 October 2008 (02 Dhul Qa’dah 1429)
Russian-Muslim alliance picks up momentum
Siraj Wahab & Samir Al-Saadi | Arab News —

JEDDAH: Stronger ties between Russia and Muslim nations augur well for a world that has seen problems associated with US hegemony, according to religious, cultural and political leaders who attended the Russian-Islamic World Strategic Vision Group’s three-day forum at the Jeddah Conference Palace.

“The first eight years of the 21st century have shown us how a world dominated by one superpower can be dangerous. These eight years have demonstrated that problems cannot be solved by a brute show of force,” said Veniamin Popove, director of the Russian Center for Partnership of Civilizations.

“The balance of power is changing. The world is changing. It is no longer a unipolar world. New centers of power are emerging. Russia is one pole. The Islamic world, led by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, is another pole. If we join these two poles then we would have a better leverage on the world stage,” Popove said.

He noted that Saudi Arabia is among the 20 nations that will discuss the fallout of the global economic crisis in the United States on Nov. 15. “Saudi Arabia has been specially invited for this crucial summit. Here is proof of the fact that the Islamic world has arrived on the world stage,” Popove said. He added that the Jeddah forum discussed issues that kept Russia and the Islamic world at bay in the past.

“We have opened a new chapter in our relationship with the Islamic world. There is political and cultural will to come together in the larger interest of humanity. Everybody now accepts that the world cannot have followers of just one religion. We all have to learn to coexist and this is basically the message of the forum,” Popove said.

Participants discussed in depth Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah’s initiative on interfaith and intercultural dialogue. They stressed the need for people of different faiths and cultures to peacefully coexist side by side, and to shun violence, intolerance and terrorism. They commended the constructive efforts made by King Abdullah for peaceful coexistence between civilizations and for rejecting the notion of a clash between them.

Speaking at the concluding session, Prince Turki ibn Muhammad ibn Saud Al-Kabeer, deputy minister for multilateral relations, felt the voice of reason is bound to prevail in this critical era. “Dialogue among us has become a vital necessity in view of human development. We need to cooperate in a constructive manner to build our common edifice and achieve our mutual goals and objectives.”

Prince Turki expressed hope that the ideas discussed during the forum would be translated into practical programs and projects that promote peaceful coexistence among different peoples and civilizations.

He called for the promotion of an Islamic-Russian dialogue in view of the great potential of these two civilizations and their contribution to help mankind prosper.
A communiqué issued at the end of the meeting called for the need to support cultural centers on both sides “to create significant space for cultural exchange and cooperation, and to increase rapprochement and mutual understanding.” It called for supporting Russia’s proposal to establish a consultative council on religions at the United Nations.

The forum appealed to the world media to project the importance of dialogue and disseminate a culture of respect for religions.

As a framework for international relations, the communiqué urged educational and research institutions in the Russian Federation and the Islamic world to attract more researchers, and carry out studies that promote human values and disseminate the culture of tolerance and understanding through dialogue.

Delegates said prizes should be instituted to honor personalities and bodies that make outstanding contributions in promoting relations between Russia and the Islamic world.

The meetings have been boosted by the resurgence of the Russian Orthodox Church since the end of the Soviet Union, which had long made Muslim leaders wary due to its attempts to subversively promote communism in the Muslim world and its war in Afghanistan.

Western nations, particularly the European Union, are likely to view a Russian-Muslim alliance with a certain degree of skepticism, as the Russian Federation’s recent invasion of Georgia along with its questionable actions with other former Soviet republics, such as Ukraine, on energy issues may suggest the creation of a new super alliance that could impact the West’s access to energy.

Such issues were not discussed at the forum, but in the lead-up to the next forum to be held in Kuwait, Muslim leaders certainly will be watching global events with interest and optimism in hopes of a more advantageous shuffling of global power in the future.
.



Usama bin Laden and other Al Qaida figures promote an ideology that unites a variety of grievances and motivates their supporters. Many of these grievances have existed for some time as consistent themes in Middle Eastern politics - for instance, opposition to Israel - but Al Qaida has merged them into a "single narrative" of a global conspiracy against the Muslim world.

They claim that the current impoverished state of many Muslim countries is the fault of an alliance between "Zionists and Crusaders" (principally meaning Israel and the United States) and corrupt Muslim governments. They assert that the solution to this problem is to eradicate Western influences from the Muslim world, replace existing governments with a supranational "caliphate" and impose a strict and exclusive form of government based on their particular interpretation of Sunni Islam.

Al Qaida's members adopt an extreme interpretation of Islamic teaching which they believe places an obligation on believers to fight and kill to achieve their aims. Most Muslims and the world's leading Islamic scholars reject this position. Europe's leading Islamic scholars have declared that "under no circumstances does Islam permit terrorism and the killing of civilians. Terrorism is in direct contravention to the principles of Islam and the vast majority of Muslim remain faithful to these teachings." [1]
Al Qaida brands the governments of many Muslim states as "apostates" who do not adhere to its definition of "true Islam". Secular republics and religiously-based monarchies alike are attacked on this basis. By branding them as guilty of apostasy - an offence for which Islamic law prescribes a death sentence - the terrorists justify taking violent action against the governments and citizens of those states, even though they are co-religionists.

Al Qaida strongly opposes Western influences and ideas that it regards as "unIslamic".

Notably, it is explicitly opposed to democratic principles. It has released statements rejecting democratic elections in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Palestinian Territories. It claims that democracy is a rival "religion" and that principles such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion are equivalent to apostasy, punishable by death. In Al Qaida's view, the only acceptable form of government is a "Caliphate" exclusively based on Sharia law. However, Al Qaida is careful to define itself only by what it opposes and has yet to define what the Islamic Caliphate it advocates would actually stand for.

Al Qaida's opposition to "un-Islamic" ideas extends to condemnation of Muslim religious practices of which they disapprove. In particular, Al Qaida supports a narrow interpretation of Sunnism, the largest denomination of Islam, and is violently opposed to other Islamic denominations which it regards as "infidel" as well as Sunni Muslims whom it regards as insufficiently pious. Al Qaida and its allies in Iraq and Afghanistan have killed thousands of Muslims of both Shia and Sunni denominations.

Finally, Al Qaida claims that Islam itself is facing an active, sustained, and long-term attack from what they characterise as a Christian-Jewish alliance against Muslims. It supports this claim by characterising relations between Muslims and Westerners as a long history of injustices and grievances, whilst downplaying any evidence to the contrary. For instance, Usama bin Laden has cited the suffering of Muslims in the former Yugoslavia as being the fault of the "Zionist-Crusader alliance and their collaborators," without mentioning the facts that NATO military intervention brought the conflicts in Bosnia and Kosovo to an end, and Western countries saved hundreds of thousands of lives through the provision of humanitarian aid.

[1] The Topkapi Declaration, Muslims of Europe Conference, Istanbul, 1-2 July 2006

http://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page546.html

[NewEnd]

Dismissing out-of-hand even the possibility of fraud and conspiracy when we are DROWNING in fraud and conspiracy doesn't speak to brilliance, either.

.

Overstating the power of the president to sell America to it's enemies is definitely a sign of ignorance.

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Overstating the power of the president to sell America to it's enemies is definitely a sign of ignorance.

For putting interests other than America's first, what do you call what just happened during the Bush Administration?

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From before the Iowa Caucuses until I came to this board, I posted at one that transformed before my eyes from a liberal-leaning, reform-minded joint to a rabid take-no-prisoners pro-O clubhouse. Dissenting opinions unacceptable.

I said from the start that, THIS PARTICULAR YEAR, putting either a woman or a black man up against an entire national history of electing white male landed gentry was a big fucking gamble when we have next to no wiggle room. But noooo. They were sure that Barack Obama...who more than one of them referred to as "our boy"...could prevail in November. Amazingly, they may have been right.

At the time, though, I concluded many an insult-fest by saying that if my worst-case scenario was that Barack Obama goes the distance then, given their boundless enthusiasm and total confidence, I could be sure that my problems were over. I accept. Would they, in turn, accept McCain if their look-at-us-change gamble fell short in November when, given voting apparatus irregularities in the past, we can presume that anything resembling a tie base will fall to the Republicans.

If Barack Obama is the Wunderkind he's been selling himself to be...in the most expensive campaign in American history, it bears mention...then, hey, no bigger deal than the one that is already on the table: America hitting bottom, and starting back up. I accept.

Do those who maintain that there is no difference in the inferiority of these men accept it if it DOES turn out that Barack Obama has an agenda that has not yet been expressed, but for which he can muster support via a weak and sympathetic Congress, an obliging media and steady government assistance to the Majority?

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Actually, the proper word to describe the "secret Muslim" nonsense is "demagoguery."


Demagogue: one who tries to stir up the people by appeals to emotion, prejudice, etc in order to win them over quickly and so gain power.

You attribute big-league demagoguery to random free-thinking internet posters, and yet somehow do not see that Barack Obama IS a demagogue.

Don't get me wrong. America has whatcha call a Soul Sickness...could be the best thing in the world for people to come together countrywide behind a dynamic visionary. I just completely don't get it how Americans who have been complacent right up until recently and who, meanwhile, have been duped and duped and duped and duped are so blindly trusting of a man whose actions already vary from his words.

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He's not a muslim, at worst, he's a follower of former Black Panthers which have toned down their rhetoric, certain people (Jermiah Wright) still hate the white man, etc. But I can show you a lot of people that hate the "white man" without using those type of words.

Yep.




What does this have anything to do with Obama and him being a Muslim? I'm sorry but Muslim-Americans do not share the Middle Eastern Islam Extremist philosophies of blowing shit up.

Do you mean to say ALL or do you mean to say MOST Muslim-Americans do not share the precepts and principles of whatever Islamic Fundamentalism holds killing, say, me to be a plus in Allah's eyes? You cannot presume to speak for all Muslim-Americans...I mean you can PRESUME to, but the remarks lack integrity.




Wow, you're really delusional and it's quite disturbing that you so easily bad-mouth the "bad-sect" of Muslims and try to play off that Christians are not just as crazy? The KKK ring a bell to you? Church-loving race-hating bigots, anyone? What about Polygamists?


Wow, you're really predictable and it's quite disturbing that you so easily bad-mouth ME. That's what people who have knee-jerk political beliefs do.

There are reams and reams of words available for your perusal to confirm that I was one of the very FIRST people to start raking Faux Christians and Holy Rollers over the coals.

Religion has no place in politics, and extremism has no place in either.



The KKK is a radical fundamentalist branch of Christianity? What's your point? What's this rant trying to prove? Just say it, you think Obama is going to be a terrorist or what? Open your eyes, this Obama is Muslim crap is looked at from a purely racist stand-point. If he was "Joe the Plumber" (I really dislike this idiot Joe.) but spoke on Obama's talking points, people just kick and scream about him being a socialist or something similar to that.

Race wouldn't even be a factor, it's all about race and to say otherwise is foolish. If it was Bill Richardson as the Democratic nominee, the same thing would happen and I would expect to see a couple wetback comments and "He's going to open the border to all Mexicans and Latinos!!!!!!" It's total b.s. and I just get extremely peeved at seeing these comments all over the board it's foolish. Obama's religion shouldn't matter, no matter what! Remember the 1st amendment? Or do we casually forget that because Obama is black and possibly a black muslim, big 'effin deal.

Race is ALWAYS a factor in America. America is a profoundly racist nation.

For me, a principal objection to the candidacy of Ron Paul was that, conspicuously enough for me to be aware of it, white supremacists unto Klan members had come out in his support.

Because I am NOT a racist, I am able freely to talk about many things that others can't or won't BECAUSE they're racist. Barack Obama has been cut ALL KINDS of slack BECAUSE he's black. The Racist label is hurled no matter WHAT the criticism.

Suddenly CNN is doing Black In America. Not Female In America, not Unemployed In America, not Latino in America, not Poor In America, not Asian In America...just Black In America. The various news outfits couldn't hire black anchors and pundits fast enough.

I do not have the numbers, sorry, but try to visualize the two parties' conventions in your mind. For their part, when the Republicans took the class photo, the collection of party oldsters on stage only needed some overalls and a pitchfork to like a Grant Wood painting.

By contrast, at the Democratic National Convention, there were sufficiently more black speakers and black delegates, percentage-wise, than Black voters for me to have heard mention of it on the news.

At the last Board, which was WAY liberal, and now at this board, which is QUITE Libertarian, there are threads broaching the topic of SLAVE REPARATIONS, as though we have money for that even if it weren't one of the worst ideas ever.

So I'm looking at white supremacists unto Klan members over that way and black supremacists unto Panthers over the other way and I...who do not live in a suburb or on a prairie, but in a city where races are segregated in jail so they don't kill one another...am thinking POWDER KEG.

Why else, the U.S. troops on domestic soil?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

From the Free Turkey:
http://thefreeturkey.com/2008/10/30/obama-is-a-muslim-or-why-texans-are-dumb/

Reader's Digest Version: 23% of Texans think that Obama is a Muslim. *facepalm*

As a Texan, borned and raised, I could care less about Obama, Washington DC, and that empty Federal box of goods they continually sell to the American people.

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As a Texan, borned and raised, I could care less about Obama, Washington DC, and that empty Federal box of goods they continually sell to the American people.

You might feel differently if you didn't live in an oil-rich state.

What are your thoughts on America spreading THAT wealth around?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

[QUOTE=cheapseats;1796528]Yep.


When Frederick Neitchze said God is dead, he meant that morality is dead. In other words, while the nations could trust the world's political structure who govern the people, they could not trust the individuals employed within that structure to carry out the responsibilities.
We have a political structure today secularized by Christian morality while many of the individuals employed in that structure have become atheists or nonbelievers. It isn't the structure we can't trust but the individuals working in that structure. It is all going to pieces.

On your comment about racism? All the money in the world won't establish a society that is responsible and equal. How much money have we spent so far? Our government no longer tends to the happiness of the people because that takes a back seat to responsibility.

While I like to go fishing for catfish while eating peanut-butter and jelly sandwiches, others like to sit out on their condominium balconies while sipping mint tea and eating dry toast spred with marmalade. Different things make different people happy. Happiness is the key. Not responsibility and equality. With equality, there is no spice of life.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

You might feel differently if you didn't live in an oil-rich state.

What are your thoughts on America spreading THAT wealth around?

Oil does serve as a foundation for the Texas economy just as agriculture does. But manufacturing is where most of the wealth in Texas comes from. Texas is about the only state left with an expanding manufacturing base.
There are three times as many billionaires in the DFW area as in the Houston area, more millionaires in the city of Dallas than in Houston which is nearly twice its size. The great myth is that oil brings great wealth.
When loads of energy companies moved from Dallas to Houston, it didn't hurt the city as one would expect. To the contrary, its economy exploded with new industries being developed within the region. As Houston builds tall skyscrapers for its energy companies, Dallas / Fort Worth creates new business districts for whole new industries.
So, quit with that cop out. Dallas has always been like an Eastern city misplaced in the south. Yet, in the long run, the city of Dallas always kicks oil drenched Houston's ass. If Dallas can do it, any city in the United States can have a dynamic economy.

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When Frederick Neitchze said God is dead, he meant that morality is dead. In other words, while the nations could trust the world's political structure who govern the people, they could not trust the individuals employed within that structure to carry out the responsibilities.
We have a political structure today secularized by Christian morality while many of the individuals employed in that structure have become atheists or nonbelievers. It isn't the structure we can't trust but the individuals working in that structure. It is all going to pieces.

No question.

It is the paradox of governance. Viewing oneself as smart enough, nuanced enough, talented enough, experienced enough, wise enough, fair enough, practical enough and strong enough to lead and lord over others renders one ironically, sadly, nevertheless completely the wrong person to lead and lord over others.




On your comment about racism? All the money in the world won't establish a society that is responsible and equal. How much money have we spent so far?


Actually, money IS one of the things that mitigates racism but not money by hand-out as Obama and pie-in-the-sky Do Gooders propose.

Mainly, racism is a generational thing. Determining to end racism is as meaningless as telling an upset person not to be upset.

But an impressive bank balance REALLY takes the edge off hostility.




Our government no longer tends to the happiness of the people because that takes a back seat to responsibility.


As far as I can tell, our government doesn't see to either one.




While I like to go fishing for catfish while eating peanut-butter and jelly sandwiches, others like to sit out on their condominium balconies while sipping mint tea and eating dry toast spred with marmalade. Different things make different people happy. Happiness is the key. Not responsibility and equality. With equality, there is no spice of life.

Exactly so.

Equality is baloney, unless you're divvying up dessert amongst the kidlets. The Obama/Clinton/Carter-esque notion that, if people work hard enough, they can be or do or have anything they want is not only false, but dangerous.

Equally beloved by God, you bet. Equal rights, absolutely. Equal protection before the law, in theory. But equal? Tell that to the child who is born with club feet and a clef lip. Tell that to the adolescent who, try as he might, can NOT master his coursework. Tell that to the adult who is minding his own business in his own lane and is hit by a drunk driver, pow, and shall spend the rest of his years in a wheelchair.

Equality and fairness are like love and happiness. Like mirages, they change shape and recede upon approach, but they are benevolent and we move toward them just the same...rather than toward inequality, injustice, hatred and unhappiness.

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Oil does serve as a foundation for the Texas economy just as agriculture does. But manufacturing is where most of the wealth in Texas comes from. Texas is about the only state left with an expanding manufacturing base.
There are three times as many billionaires in the DFW area as in the Houston area, more millionaires in the city of Dallas than in Houston which is nearly twice its size. The great myth is that oil brings great wealth.


That oil brings wealth is scarcely a myth...ask ExxonMobil.



When loads of energy companies moved from Dallas to Houston, it didn't hurt the city as one would expect. To the contrary, its economy exploded with new industries being developed within the region. As Houston builds tall skyscrapers for its energy companies, Dallas / Fort Worth creates new business districts for whole new industries.

If you build it, they will come.

By the time the energy companies moved from Dallas to Houston, there was already an infrastructure to accommodate the businesses that would "naturally," see also incentives, gravitate to a just-add-water environment.




So, quit with that cop out. Dallas has always been like an Eastern city misplaced in the south. Yet, in the long run, the city of Dallas always kicks oil drenched Houston's ass. If Dallas can do it, any city in the United States can have a dynamic economy.

Cop out? Why are we butting our noses into Iraq's oil revenue sharing, if it is an inconsequential matter? Texas, Oklahoma and Alaska all favor secession, yes?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

That oil brings wealth is scarcely a myth...ask ExxonMobil.


ExxonMobil spreads wealth to investors and workers all over the world. The few hundred millionaire Exxon executives working in Las Colinas in Irving, Tx. in comparison don't necessarily benefit the Metroplex as much as the thousands of less wealthy employees who work at Frito Lay in Legacy in Plano, Tx..



If you build it, they will come.

By the time the energy companies moved from Dallas to Houston, there was already an infrastructure to accommodate the businesses that would "naturally," see also incentives, gravitate to a just-add-water environment.

San Antonio built a stadium for an NFL team and it never came. In fact, if a team were to move to that city today, it would do so expecting that the city would build them a new stadium.

Before the time that all those energy companies moved from Dallas, both Dallas and Houston were in the running for being considered the energy capital of the world. But the writing was on the wall. Arco, Mobile exploration, Diamond Shamrock, Dresser Industries, Haliburton, Petro Fina, Caltex Exploration and on and on, including smaller oil and gas companies like Texas Oil and Gas disappeared from the DFW area. Yet, what happened? The areas economy not only exploded but its population did as well.

Today, the DFW area is becoming the Chicago of the Southwest. It has 1/3rd more stores and warehouses than the Houston metropolitan area.
This isn't because of oil even though the Metroplex still has a sizeable number of energy companies with the largest gas field in the lower 48 states located in the area.

While Houston always has the potential to become a Detroit, a one industry town where energy makes up 50% of its business, the Metroplex is number 2 or 3 in about 10 different industries. This diversification is healthier in the long run.

So, DFW is no different than 90% of the other cities in the United States. It isn't a wealthy area just because of its oil and agriculture base. It is wealthy because Texas state government and local governments based in that area govern better.





Cop out? Why are we butting our noses into Iraq's oil revenue sharing, if it is an inconsequential matter? Texas, Oklahoma and Alaska all favor secession, yes?

Oil has fallen out of favor as a source of fuel as whale oil once fell out of favor. But new supplies are being discovered all the time. So, the price took a huge drop as it should remain so for a good long time. Oil producers invested heavily into falling financial stocks creating another factor to keep oil prices down. What good will it do for oil producing nations to raise the price of oil when doing so will cause them to lose even more money in the stock they own in financial companies?
Natural Gas, ethanol and wind energy are a better source of fuel for the future while oil will still be needed to make things like plastics and rubber.

Texas is more than oil and gas.

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ExxonMobil spreads wealth to investors and workers all over the world. The few hundred millionaire Exxon executives working in Las Colinas in Irving, Tx. in comparison don't necessarily benefit the Metroplex as much as the thousands of less wealthy employees who work at Frito Lay in Legacy in Plano, Tx..


That said, it is nevertheless NOT a myth that oil generates wealth.




San Antonio built a stadium for an NFL team and it never came. In fact, if a team were to move to that city today, it would do so expecting that the city would build them a new stadium.


No doubt.

Professional sports racketeering is one of the things that this country needs to take on head to head, like a contact sport.

Who the hell cares what performance-enhancing drugs are taken by PROFESSIONAL ATHELETES...modern day Gladiators...who are grown people making handsome livings at running/jumping/catching et al. They can sign waivers re: health/insurance, and assume the risk.

Diversion, diversion, diversion. Gettin' the Prudes and the Holier Than Thou's in a dither over DRUGS...NOT DRUGS!!*?@##!#!!...when the real hanky panky is going on, as per usual, amongst the Owners.

It is laughable, in an unfunny sort of way, when people say George Bush lost money on "his" franchise.



Before the time that all those energy companies moved from Dallas, both Dallas and Houston were in the running for being considered the energy capital of the world. But the writing was on the wall. Arco, Mobile exploration, Diamond Shamrock, Dresser Industries, Haliburton, Petro Fina, Caltex Exploration and on and on, including smaller oil and gas companies like Texas Oil and Gas disappeared from the DFW area. Yet, what happened? The areas economy not only exploded but its population did as well.


Clearly.

I expect if we go back, we'll find some tidy incentives to make that happen. Elsewhere you say that there's more to Texas than oil and I had to laugh remembering a 'live' exchange on another board many months ago. I say live in that the posting was happening as I was reading, between a Texan and Another. Texans ARE a distinct breed, I expect you'll agree.

Another "said" to the Texan, "You know the only two things that come from Texas, don't you?"

"*****s and steers." Once I read it, it sounded familiar but I mean he did not miss one beat. I was thinking oil, Bush, rednecks, Cowboys...anyway, it was funny in a you-had-to-be-there kinda way.

The point I was actually making my way around to is that, whatever else Texas has got going for it, it also has a concentration of shrewd businessmen.




Today, the DFW area is becoming the Chicago of the Southwest. It has 1/3rd more stores and warehouses than the Houston metropolitan area.
This isn't because of oil even though the Metroplex still has a sizeable number of energy companies with the largest gas field in the lower 48 states located in the area.

While Houston always has the potential to become a Detroit, a one industry town where energy makes up 50% of its business, the Metroplex is number 2 or 3 in about 10 different industries. This diversification is healthier in the long run.

You bet.

If all surrounding commerce is tangential to The Industry...if everyone supplies to and/or buys from and/or works for and/or has a business that is an offshoot of One Company/Industry...obviously, if that Sole Big Shot goes on hard times (OR MOVES TO A COUNTRY WHERE THE LABOR IS CHEAPER AND THEY DON'T KNOW FROM BENEFITS), the whole area goes into depression.

I forget now whether is was Michelle Obama or His Royal Highness Obama who had a role in the closure of the pickle factory in La Junta, Colorado. The town was devastated. The community-activist oriented Obama's are doing quite well, though, so that's good. It would be a shame for EVERYONE to go under.




So, DFW is no different than 90% of the other cities in the United States. It isn't a wealthy area just because of its oil and agriculture base. It is wealthy because Texas state government and local governments based in that area govern better.


They're doing something different, that's for sure. I can't speak to the means by which they achieve they're ends to know whether they are doing things in Capital-B Better ways but, for sure, Texas is producing some results that are flat-out better than the nation as a whole. Your roads are like glass.




Oil has fallen out of favor as a source of fuel as whale oil once fell out of favor.

Not quite. Not yet.



But new supplies are being discovered all the time.

Which is to say that, in spite of being long deadly years at war and in spite out our knowledge that oil's days are numbered OR OURS ARE, we are still barking up the same Giving Tree.

I don't buy that this is the End Of Times. I think the greedy fucks who contrived this whole goddamn mess for their personal gain are greedy enough that they want the whole shebang to fall on their shift. Many of our Robber Barons have one foot in the grave. Note how many of our problems are attributable to a handful of Bad Guys contriving to have such a large share of the pie that the rest of the economy can no longer sustain its hustle and bustle on the slim serving that the Conscienceless Uber Rich would leave to the masses. They want it ALL. They cannot BEAR that life will go on without them. I say go with 85% Estate Tax after the first hundred million. Who could grip about that?

Where was I going? Oh, yeah. THIS point is that the same bastards who have been fleecing us over oil for DECADES have no intention of switching up their game plan into long-range, visionary, do-gooder stuff in the last few years of their reign. Think of the headaches and disappointments that await us in our Quest For Energy Independence...what do they need with that? They won't be alive to reap any of the benefits. This is a very quid pro quo crowd.

They aren't MOTIVATED to Change. If you're making money doing something the way you're doing it, why would you do anything else? Because you have lost favor with the public? Please.




So, the price took a huge drop as it should remain so for a good long time.


And yet, curiously, there is resistance to downward revision of pricing of the many, many, many goods and services that attributed their price increases to the increasing price of oil.




Oil producers invested heavily into falling financial stocks creating another factor to keep oil prices down. What good will it do for oil producing nations to raise the price of oil when doing so will cause them to lose even more money in the stock they own in financial companies?


A miilion years ago, there used to be a rickety old "roller coaster" at the Santa Cruz Boardwalk called The Wild Mouse. Even then, before our helmet/shoulder strap/elbow pad/airbag Protectionism kicked into the high and oh-so-profitable gear we know today, it was clear even to an adolescent that going on The Wild Mouse pretty much constituted putting your life up for grabs. I forget whether someone finally was killed or whether it was "only" such injuries as might be sustained by a mouse shaped car simply failing to make that 90-degree turn atop roughly three stories of, basically, scaffolding.

I think it's gonna be like riding The Wild Mouse.




Natural Gas, ethanol and wind energy are a better source of fuel for the future while oil will still be needed to make things like plastics and rubber.

Absolutely.

But we need to decriminalize marijuana and hemp, and use hemp oil RATHER THAN A FOOD STAPLE in ethanol. I am told that hemp can also be used in resins and bonding agents, among other things.

WE ARE NOT ONLY FOREGOING HUGE REVENUE, WE ARE THROWING HUGE SUMS OF MONEY OUT THE WINDOW WITH THE CONTRIVED ILLEGALITY OF MARIJUANA AND HEMP.

Capital letters not for you, but for the MORONS AND THIEVES that DARE to say they represent my interests and then DARE to make me pay for their abuse.



Texas is more than oil and gas.

You've got the Bushes, for starters. ;)

Granted, Texas is Affluent...Uber Rich compared to some states. Are the Texans who say there is no difference between the badness of McCain and the badness of Obama prepared to share their wealth with the rest of us in the same way that Obama proposes to distribute the wealth of those Americans who are Affluent, Uber Rich compared to some?

[NewEnd]

Obama's not a muslim, hes a Kenyan Communo-terrorist, who, in his first 100 days will command the air force to slam jets into all our skyscrapers, and demand that the Koran be taught in schools, as well disbanding the SCOTUS in favor of Sharia law. Then, he will make Farsi the official language of the US.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE.... OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST!!!

[cheapseats]

Obama's not a muslim, hes a Kenyan Communo-terrorist, who, in his first 100 days will command the air force to slam jets into all our skyscrapers, and demand that the Koran be taught in schools, as well disbanding the SCOTUS in favor of Sharia law. Then, he will make Farsi the official language of the US.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE.... OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST!!!

I say this not to those who know their minds on the subject and have decided their vote, but to those who may yet be Undecided.

I will suggest that "WAKE UP SHEEPLE.... OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST!!!" is hyperbolic bullshit, to dissuade consideration of the ACTUAL worst case scenarios.

The worst case scenario is not that Barack Hussein Obama...who proactively sought identification as Barack when he was known as Barry.. is the Anti-Christ of Biblical acclaim, but that he is the handsome and silky-tongued front man for the Nation Of Islam, Made In America.

The next worst case scenario is that Obama means "merely" to elevate Black Causes above Others, which I contend is wrong-headed at any time but particularly wrong-headed when so many sub-groups are on hard times and when racial tensions are already percolating.

[NewEnd]

The worst case scenario is not that Barack Hussein Obama...who proactively sought identification as Barack when he was known as Barry.. is the Anti-Christ of Biblical acclaim, but that he is the handsome and silky-tongued front man for the Nation Of Islam, Made In America.

Total lunacy.


The next worst case scenario is that Obama means "merely" to elevate Black Causes above Others, which I contend is wrong-headed at any time but particularly wrong-headed when so many sub-groups are on hard times and when racial tensions are already percolating.

Just as dumb.

[cheapseats]

The worst case scenario is not that Barack Hussein Obama...who proactively sought identification as Barack when he was known as Barry.. is the Anti-Christ of Biblical acclaim, but that he is the handsome and silky-tongued front man for the Nation Of Islam, Made In America.



Total lunacy.

Totally implausible. Defies believability. Hundred-year storm to the Nth degree.

But not impossible.



The next worst case scenario is that Obama means "merely" to elevate Black Causes above Others, which I contend is wrong-headed at any time but particularly wrong-headed when so many sub-groups are on hard times and when racial tensions are already percolating.



Just as dumb.

"Just as," which is to say equally dumb?

You reveal your bias.

[NewEnd]

You reveal your bias.

Yes, I am biased against stupidity and outrageous, baseless, conspiracy theories, such as Obama is a frontman for the Nation Of Islam, or Obama is going to give blacks all the power.

It is just absurd.

[heavenlyboy34]

Obama's not a muslim, hes a Kenyan Communo-terrorist, who, in his first 100 days will command the air force to slam jets into all our skyscrapers, and demand that the Koran be taught in schools, as well disbanding the SCOTUS in favor of Sharia law. Then, he will make Farsi the official language of the US.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE.... OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST!!!

wow! And I thought I was a good conspiracy theorist! :eek:

[cheapseats]

Yes, I am biased against stupidity and outrageous, baseless, conspiracy theories, such as Obama is a frontman for the Nation Of Islam, or Obama is going to give blacks all the power.

It is just absurd.

There you go with distracting hyperbole again.

Did I say "give blacks all the power"?

No, I did not.

I likened the Nation of Islam angle to a hundred-year storm to the Nth degree, did I not?

Yes, I did.

I said ELEVATE BLACK CAUSES ABOVE OTHERS...implicitly, the Causes of Others.

How else to explain the preponderance of black keynote speakers and black super delegates, relative to the number of black voters?

In the proposed re-distribution of wealth, give a thought to which groups will benefit most. It isn't MY group, I know that.

If we ever got a copy of Militant Michelle's thesis...the one wherein she ostensibly expressed determination to commit her life to Causes Black, upon Princeton's hallowed halls making her feel aware of her blackness in a way she never had before...I haven't seen it.

He spends enough millions in self-promotion...many millions of have been lavished upon him by the Working Poor, it bears mention (as well as Big Law)...that he could spring for a hyper-public presentation of documents that would readily assuage doubt. But he doesn't do that.

Why? Are the documents damning? Or is it to distract and divert, like hyperbole?

John McCain isn't exactly a looker, y'know what I mean? About even HIM, we here scandalous womanizing stories. Cindy McCain = Trophy Wife with an Heiress twist, fer cryin' out loud.

We learn that preachers were banging boys.

But not a word about uber cool Barack Obama. How can that be?

You are determined that he was not raised Muslim, which would explain him being chaste. He became a Christian in his 20's, on the Jeremiah Wright track.

Prior to that, you would have us believe that he was just a good looking, light-skinned, mixed-race charmer who...though his upbringing was secular and his mother was radical...thought premarital sex was off limits? Gimme a break.

How much money was directed to Super Delegates?

Suppression has two p's and two s's.

[NewEnd]

There you go with distracting hyperbole again.

Did I say "give blacks all the power"?

No, I did not.

I likened the Nation of Islam angle to a hundred-year storm to the Nth degree, did I not?

Yes, I did.

I said ELEVATE BLACK CAUSES ABOVE OTHERS...implicitly, the Causes of Others.

How else to explain the preponderance of black keynote speakers and black super delegates, relative to the number of black voters?

In the proposed re-distribution of wealth, give a thought to which groups will benefit most. It isn't MY group, I know that.

If we ever got a copy of Militant Michelle's thesis...the one wherein she ostensibly expressed determination to commit her life to Causes Black, upon Princeton's hallowed halls making her feel aware of her blackness in a way she never had before...I haven't seen it.

He spends enough millions in self-promotion...many millions of have been lavished upon him by the Working Poor, it bears mention (as well as Big Law)...that he could spring for a hyper-public presentation of documents that would readily assuage doubt. But he doesn't do that.

Why? Are the documents damning? Or is it to distract and divert, like hyperbole?

John McCain isn't exactly a looker, y'know what I mean? About even HIM, we here scandalous womanizing stories. Cindy McCain = Trophy Wife with an Heiress twist, fer cryin' out loud.

We learn that preachers were banging boys.

But not a word about uber cool Barack Obama. How can that be?

You are determined that he was not raised Muslim, which would explain him being chaste. He became a Christian in his 20's, on the Jeremiah Wright track.

Prior to that, you would have us believe that he was just a good looking, light-skinned, mixed-race charmer who...though his upbringing was secular and his mother was radical...thought premarital sex was off limits? Gimme a break.

How much money was directed to Super Delegates?

Suppression has two p's and two s's.

You are really looking for fire in dust clouds. Lets us know when you see smoke.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

That said, it is nevertheless NOT a myth that oil generates wealth.
No doubt.
Professional sports racketeering is one of the things that this country needs to take on head to head, like a contact sport.
Who the hell cares what performance-enhancing drugs are taken by PROFESSIONAL ATHELETES...modern day Gladiators...who are grown people making handsome livings at running/jumping/catching et al. They can sign waivers re: health/insurance, and assume the risk.
Diversion, diversion, diversion. Gettin' the Prudes and the Holier Than Thou's in a dither over DRUGS...NOT DRUGS!!*?@##!#!!...when the real hanky panky is going on, as per usual, amongst the Owners.
It is laughable, in an unfunny sort of way, when people say George Bush lost money on "his" franchise.
Clearly.
I expect if we go back, we'll find some tidy incentives to make that happen. Elsewhere you say that there's more to Texas than oil and I had to laugh remembering a 'live' exchange on another board many months ago. I say live in that the posting was happening as I was reading, between a Texan and Another. Texans ARE a distinct breed, I expect you'll agree.
Another "said" to the Texan, "You know the only two things that come from Texas, don't you?"
"*****s and steers." Once I read it, it sounded familiar but I mean he did not miss one beat. I was thinking oil, Bush, rednecks, Cowboys...anyway, it was funny in a you-had-to-be-there kinda way.
The point I was actually making my way around to is that, whatever else Texas has got going for it, it also has a concentration of shrewd businessmen.
You bet.
If all surrounding commerce is tangential to The Industry...if everyone supplies to and/or buys from and/or works for and/or has a business that is an offshoot of One Company/Industry...obviously, if that Sole Big Shot goes on hard times (OR MOVES TO A COUNTRY WHERE THE LABOR IS CHEAPER AND THEY DON'T KNOW FROM BENEFITS), the whole area goes into depression.
I forget now whether is was Michelle Obama or His Royal Highness Obama who had a role in the closure of the pickle factory in La Junta, Colorado. The town was devastated. The community-activist oriented Obama's are doing quite well, though, so that's good. It would be a shame for EVERYONE to go under.
They're doing something different, that's for sure. I can't speak to the means by which they achieve they're ends to know whether they are doing things in Capital-B Better ways but, for sure, Texas is producing some results that are flat-out better than the nation as a whole. Your roads are like glass.
Not quite. Not yet.
Which is to say that, in spite of being long deadly years at war and in spite out our knowledge that oil's days are numbered OR OURS ARE, we are still barking up the same Giving Tree.
I don't buy that this is the End Of Times. I think the greedy fucks who contrived this whole goddamn mess for their personal gain are greedy enough that they want the whole shebang to fall on their shift. Many of our Robber Barons have one foot in the grave. Note how many of our problems are attributable to a handful of Bad Guys contriving to have such a large share of the pie that the rest of the economy can no longer sustain its hustle and bustle on the slim serving that the Conscienceless Uber Rich would leave to the masses. They want it ALL. They cannot BEAR that life will go on without them. I say go with 85% Estate Tax after the first hundred million. Who could grip about that?
Where was I going? Oh, yeah. THIS point is that the same bastards who have been fleecing us over oil for DECADES have no intention of switching up their game plan into long-range, visionary, do-gooder stuff in the last few years of their reign. Think of the headaches and disappointments that await us in our Quest For Energy Independence...what do they need with that? They won't be alive to reap any of the benefits. This is a very quid pro quo crowd.
They aren't MOTIVATED to Change. If you're making money doing something the way you're doing it, why would you do anything else? Because you have lost favor with the public? Please.
And yet, curiously, there is resistance to downward revision of pricing of the many, many, many goods and services that attributed their price increases to the increasing price of oil.
A miilion years ago, there used to be a rickety old "roller coaster" at the Santa Cruz Boardwalk called The Wild Mouse. Even then, before our helmet/shoulder strap/elbow pad/airbag Protectionism kicked into the high and oh-so-profitable gear we know today, it was clear even to an adolescent that going on The Wild Mouse pretty much constituted putting your life up for grabs. I forget whether someone finally was killed or whether it was "only" such injuries as might be sustained by a mouse shaped car simply failing to make that 90-degree turn atop roughly three stories of, basically, scaffolding.
I think it's gonna be like riding The Wild Mouse.
Absolutely.
But we need to decriminalize marijuana and hemp, and use hemp oil RATHER THAN A FOOD STAPLE in ethanol. I am told that hemp can also be used in resins and bonding agents, among other things.
WE ARE NOT ONLY FOREGOING HUGE REVENUE, WE ARE THROWING HUGE SUMS OF MONEY OUT THE WINDOW WITH THE CONTRIVED ILLEGALITY OF MARIJUANA AND HEMP.
Capital letters not for you, but for the MORONS AND THIEVES that DARE to say they represent my interests and then DARE to make me pay for their abuse.
You've got the Bushes, for starters. ;)
Granted, Texas is Affluent...Uber Rich compared to some states. Are the Texans who say there is no difference between the badness of McCain and the badness of Obama prepared to share their wealth with the rest of us in the same way that Obama proposes to distribute the wealth of those Americans who are Affluent, Uber Rich compared to some?

When the metro areas of Houston and Dallas build 30,000 houses a year and 15,000 apartments, it isn't a boom but normal growth. Why? Because this has been happening in both metro areas for over 30 years. It isn't what Texas does right but what Texas doesn't do wrong like other areas of the nation. When a state or a city taxes its citizens, it is taxing future small businesses. Small businesses grow faster, pay their employees better and fill up office space quicker than major corporations.
Texas isn't perfect by any means. The same kinds of socialism that happen in the rest of the nation happen here. Still, Texas serves as the manufacturing backbone of the region.

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When the metro areas of Houston and Dallas build 30,000 houses a year and 15,000 apartments, it isn't a boom but normal growth. Why? Because this has been happening in both metro areas for over 30 years. It isn't what Texas does right but what Texas doesn't do wrong like other areas of the nation. When a state or a city taxes its citizens, it is taxing future small businesses. Small businesses grow faster, pay their employees better and fill up office space quicker than major corporations.
Texas isn't perfect by any means. The same kinds of socialism that happen in the rest of the nation happen here. Still, Texas serves as the manufacturing backbone of the region.

In other words, Texans are NOT dumb.