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View Full Version : I voted today - groan




Hurricane Bruiser
10-29-2008, 01:55 PM
Well I voted early today in WV. I voted for a WV delegate candidate (Fred Gillespie) who was a Ron Paul supporter. Other than him, not much worth voting for. I ended up voting for Chuck Baldwin as I just couldn't get myself to vote for either Obama or McCain. If McCain had actually stood up against the bailout, perhaps I would have changed my mind.

Dorfsmith
10-29-2008, 02:08 PM
You did good.

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:10 PM
Well I voted early today in WV. I voted for a WV delegate candidate (Fred Gillespie) who was a Ron Paul supporter. Other than him, not much worth voting for. I ended up voting for Chuck Baldwin as I just couldn't get myself to vote for either Obama or McCain. If McCain had actually stood up against the bailout, perhaps I would have changed my mind.

MMM nice vote for Obama.... Thanks... :(

micahnelson
10-29-2008, 02:11 PM
MMM nice vote for Obama.... Thanks... :(

I guess you misread. He voted for Chuck Baldwin.

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:13 PM
I guess you misread. He voted for Chuck Baldwin.

No... did not mis read. Baldwin will not win and a "protest" vote is rediculous in this election. McCain would have been a MUCH better vote in an important state.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
10-29-2008, 02:15 PM
No... did not mis read. Baldwin will not win and a "protest" vote is rediculous in this election. McCain would have been a MUCH better vote in an important state.

A protest vote is not ridiculous. It is the "lesser of two evils" mentality that got us into this mess in the first place.

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:20 PM
A protest vote is not ridiculous. It is the "lesser of two evils" mentality that got us into this mess in the first place.

Well been there done that with this argument...

I will sum it up like this...

1) There IS Evil in this world.
2) There are evils that are worse than others.
3) McCain or Obama ONLY will win this election.
4) McCain is the lesser of two evils.
5) "False choice fallacy" is really "False reality fallacy" (if you believe another will win IN THIS ELECTION) you are living in a false reality.

We need to continue an effort to educate people and win them to the liberty movement BUT we need to preserve as much liberty we can in the meantime.

micahnelson
10-29-2008, 02:21 PM
No... did not mis read. Baldwin will not win and a "protest" vote is rediculous in this election. McCain would have been a MUCH better vote in an important state.

So in unimportant states, you can vote for people you want to be president.

In important states, you have to vote for fascists.

Its important to vote for the person who will win, because if you guess correctly you get entered into a raffle for a free ipod!

micahnelson
10-29-2008, 02:22 PM
Well been there done that with this argument...

I will sum it up like this...

1) There IS Evil in this world.
2) There are evils that are worse than others.
3) McCain or Obama ONLY will win this election.
4) McCain is the lesser of two evils.
5) "False choice fallacy" is really "False reality fallacy" (if you believe another will win IN THIS ELECTION) you are living in a false reality.

We need to continue an effort to educate people and win them to the liberty movement BUT we need to preserve as much liberty we can in the meantime.

If McCain wins, we tell the GOP "Yes, your behavior is successful and will help you win elections."

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:23 PM
So in unimportant states, you can vote for people you want to be president.

In important states, you have to vote for fascists.

Its important to vote for the person who will win, because if you guess correctly you get entered into a raffle for a free ipod!

It is important to preserve as much liberty as possible as the moivement grows to a level that can make a difference.

Bruno
10-29-2008, 02:25 PM
No... did not mis read. Baldwin will not win and a "protest" vote is rediculous in this election. McCain would have been a MUCH better vote in an important state.

Voting who you believe in is always the best vote.

micahnelson
10-29-2008, 02:26 PM
It is important to preserve as much liberty as possible as the moivement grows to a level that can make a difference.

Thats one of those unknown unknowns. Will a loss of liberty spark brush fires in the minds of men? Does the slow boil lead to slow acceptance, like a frog in a boiling pot? Toss him into hot water and he jumps out. Toss him into cool water and slowly heat it... he stays still until he is cooked.

If Obama is really that bad, maybe it will help our cause. If he isn't, then I guess worried for nothing.

This, of course, is completely irrelevant.

You vote for what you believe in and don't play fantasy baseball with your vote. Ron Paul doesn't, after all.

Original_Intent
10-29-2008, 02:43 PM
Well been there done that with this argument...

I will sum it up like this...

1) There IS Evil in this world.
2) There are evils that are worse than others.
3) McCain or Obama ONLY will win this election. <----This one is due to you and people like you. Break this link and the rest of your chain falls apart. Mighty big of you to step forward and admit your complicity in the crime.
4) McCain is the lesser of two evils.
5) "False choice fallacy" is really "False reality fallacy" (if you believe another will win IN THIS ELECTION) you are living in a false reality.

We need to continue an effort to educate people and win them to the liberty movement BUT we need to preserve as much liberty we can in the meantime.

Thanks very much for taking responsibility.

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:44 PM
If McCain wins, we tell the GOP "Yes, your behavior is successful and will help you win elections."

No it doesn't... when you turn off the water before plugging a hole you are not telling the hole you approve of its actions. you are containing the emergency. Then you can work to fix the problem. Like Ted Nuggent says...

Hold your nose and vote.. then HOLD THEIR FEET to the fire...

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:46 PM
Voting who you believe in is always the best vote.

I dis agree... That is a very narrow self defeating position. we need to keep as much liberty as possible..
while working on the problem.

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:47 PM
Thats one of those unknown unknowns. Will a loss of liberty spark brush fires in the minds of men? Does the slow boil lead to slow acceptance, like a frog in a boiling pot? Toss him into hot water and he jumps out. Toss him into cool water and slowly heat it... he stays still until he is cooked.

If Obama is really that bad, maybe it will help our cause. If he isn't, then I guess worried for nothing.

This, of course, is completely irrelevant.

You vote for what you believe in and don't play fantasy baseball with your vote. Ron Paul doesn't, after all.


Let it burn is a stupid idea.... bet some germans thought that too.

Bruno
10-29-2008, 02:50 PM
I dis agree... That is a very narrow self defeating position. we need to keep as much liberty as possible..
while working on the problem.

so...vote for candidates that suck a little less than the others until better ones come along?

I've voted for the lesser of two (or three) evils since 1988. I'm through with that logic.

If McCain loses, it won't be because some folks voted for Baldwin over McCain, or Paul over McCain in Lousiana/Montana - it will be because McCain failed to reach those voters with his message. If McCain had chosen to fight Obama over who would do more to protect the Consitution and Americans civil liberties instead of his current strategy of throwing things at the wall to see if they stick, then he wouldn't be trailing in the polls.

EndTheFed
10-29-2008, 02:50 PM
Thanks very much for taking responsibility.

Nice try... Close but no cigar.... It does not fall apart with that one.. and if you think so you are suffering from the false reality fallacy... The movement is NOT big enough YET to make the difference...

If we continue to educate and grow and STAY UNITED, which we seem to not be able to do, we might be big enough next time but NOT YET

ShowMeLiberty
10-29-2008, 03:20 PM
A vote for freedom is never wasted.

angelatc
10-29-2008, 03:24 PM
I guess you misread. He voted for Chuck Baldwin.

+1 :) And yeah, you did good. Baldwin deserves your vote, McCain doesn't.

angelatc
10-29-2008, 03:26 PM
Nice try... Close but no cigar.... It does not fall apart with that one.. and if you think so you are suffering from the false reality fallacy... The movement is NOT big enough YET to make the difference...

If we continue to educate and grow and STAY UNITED, which we seem to not be able to do, we might be big enough next time but NOT YET

If you want to unite, then come vote third party. McCain is so far behind that he doesn't stand a chance of winning - you're wasting your vote and splitting up the movement.

Anybody who could vote for McCain after the way he sneered at and mocked Ron Paul during the primary season is messed up, IMHO.

Original_Intent
10-29-2008, 04:08 PM
Nice try... Close but no cigar.... It does not fall apart with that one.. and if you think so you are suffering from the false reality fallacy... The movement is NOT big enough YET to make the difference...

If we continue to educate and grow and STAY UNITED, which we seem to not be able to do, we might be big enough next time but NOT YET

It's not big enough yet because 90% of the population buys the bullshit you are selling. If people like you would quit spreading the sickness, and people truly voted their conscience McCain and Obama would not even be on the radar.

TurtleBurger
10-29-2008, 04:55 PM
I dis agree... That is a very narrow self defeating position. we need to keep as much liberty as possible..
while working on the problem.

A vote for McCain is in no way a vote for liberty. There is not one issue where McCain stands on the side of liberty. Do you think Ron Paul is wasting his vote when he is on the short end of a 434-1 vote? Should he vote with everyone else just because he's not going to win?

tonesforjonesbones
10-29-2008, 05:01 PM
Whatcha talkin about? Ron paul can't ruin his reputation by voting yes can he? hehe..

I agree with everything end the fed says...I vote for end the fed. Tones

bojo68
10-29-2008, 05:18 PM
I dis agree... That is a very narrow self defeating position. we need to keep as much liberty as possible..
while working on the problem.

End the fed, you need to study history, and freedom. Tell Ghandi about self defeating. Fact of the matter is there are intergral standards that SOME choose to uphold, self defeating or otherwise. In MY business, somebody comes in and starts talking the kinda trash you are, and they're out the door. Self defeating, yes, do I care?? Absolutely not.

Leroy_Jenkems
10-29-2008, 07:38 PM
If McCain wins, we tell the GOP "Yes, your behavior is successful and will help you win elections."

Bingo. A vote for Baldwin IS A VOTE FOR BALDWIN.

EndtheFed, you may claim that voting for a third-party candidate is essentially a vote for Obama, but, see, it's not. I understand the basis of your assertion, but it's bullsh*t. The same bullsh*t one hears at their local GOP campaign office. Also, the same bullsh*t one hears at their local Dem campaign office, just with the name changed (i.e. "...if you vote for anyone other than Obama, you're voting for McCain...")


Shove it.

Hurricane Bruiser
10-30-2008, 06:21 AM
A vote for McCain is in no way a vote for liberty. There is not one issue where McCain stands on the side of liberty. Do you think Ron Paul is wasting his vote when he is on the short end of a 434-1 vote? Should he vote with everyone else just because he's not going to win?

That is why I voted for Baldwin. If I was convinced that McCain was truly better than Obama, I would maybe have held my nose and voted for him. I just can't see how he is any better. In many ways he is worse because he continues the same crap line of conservatism that was GW Bush. If McCain actually stood up for civil liberties and had half a brain and voted against the bailout, then perhaps I would vote different. Why does McCain still praise himself for Campaign Finance "reform"? It is hideous legislation!!!

You cannot remake a party that sees success in doing the same thing that has led to their marginalization.

Wendi
10-30-2008, 07:02 AM
MMM nice vote for Obama.... Thanks... :( What difference does it make? McCain would be no better. Since both suck - we might as well use our votes for who we want instead of throwing them away to vote "against" someone.

spudea
10-30-2008, 07:57 AM
A protest vote is not ridiculous. It is the "lesser of two evils" mentality that got us into this mess in the first place.

no, nominating evil got us into this. America missed its chance to nominate Ron Paul. Now we are stuck with 2 choices.

nobody's_hero
10-30-2008, 08:22 AM
Now, we see the separation of the sunshine patriots from the winter soldiers.

EDIT: I might add, that Obama's facebook fan-club has something like 2,318,000 supporters.

McCain's: 610,000

If that is in any way an indication of how much the youth-vote of this nation is sewn up, I'd say that voting for McCain is probably more of a throw-away vote than a vote for any of the 3rd parties.

HenryKnoxFineBooks
10-30-2008, 04:07 PM
If you want to unite, then come vote third party. McCain is so far behind that he doesn't stand a chance of winning - you're wasting your vote and splitting up the movement.

Anybody who could vote for McCain after the way he sneered at and mocked Ron Paul during the primary season is messed up, IMHO.

+1

Spirit of '76
11-02-2008, 04:09 AM
You done good, Bruiser.

Any problems noted with voting machines in Wood County? Here in Putnam, a lot of people have reported that the machines were changing their votes to McCain. Papers ran a story on it last week.

As for the idiotic argument that voting for McCain is any more likely to preserve our Liberty than voting for a third party candidate, all I need to remember is how one of McCain's goons took a flag bearing the word "Liberty" from us at the Republican National Convention and told us, "You can't have that here."

angelatc
11-02-2008, 08:26 AM
Now, we see the separation of the sunshine patriots from the winter soldiers.

EDIT: I might add, that Obama's facebook fan-club has something like 2,318,000 supporters.

McCain's: 610,000

If that is in any way an indication of how much the youth-vote of this nation is sewn up, I'd say that voting for McCain is probably more of a throw-away vote than a vote for any of the 3rd parties.

The youth vote typically fails to show up enmasse though, and I wonder if they'll be any different this time though.

I think the black people will show up like never before, to vote for racism.

mellamojuana
11-02-2008, 09:53 AM
Wow! I know I'm still pretty new here, but I am deeply impressed that many on the RPaulforums know the future! See above.

I appreciate your and my struggles to vote "right." Each comes down to his/her own core values.

I voted third party, but not for Baldwin who is not on the ballot in my state and would not be counted as a write-in. I would not have voted for him anyway after I heard his and R Nader's debate. Nader is indeed the brain, in this case, imo.

My conscience would not let me even consider Baldwin, regardless of Paul's endorsement. The reason is that Baldwin is all for freedom, but ignores many people in the nation when he constantly speaks of and to "evangelical Christians," in the same way McSame spoke of and to and for "veterans." I'm against neither in any way, and call myself "Christian," but not "a" Christian. I could not warp myself into the Baldwin camp because he chooses the freedoms he hopes to grant, and those he wants to curtail. He wants to be sure that every fertilized human egg becomes a baby. That leaves out Mom's conscience, values, ability to get an education possibly. . . . It also leaves to overburdened charities the care of many addicted infants and many HIV+ ones whose chances for adoption are greatly lessened because of these or other challenges.

If many black Americans vote for Obama, does that mean they are voting for racism? If I vote for the candidate who gives the best respect and shakes to the infirm elderly, am I voting for age-ism? :eek:

______________________________

Please read former President Jimmy Carter's Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis.

ronpaulhawaii
11-02-2008, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to accuse black Obama supporters as racists. Working the polls here in NC, with a large turnout of Obama supporters, I have found our darker skinned cousins to be the more open-minded of the two and willing to consider and vote on the issues.

As far as the shilling of the Obamanoids and McCainiacs, with their lame attempts at the guilt attack. You all might want to keep an eye out for this sign...

http://www.midwood.net/blogs/uploaded_images/losers-793243.jpg

:p

qh4dotcom
11-02-2008, 12:24 PM
EndTheFed is a hopeless cause...he's not going to stop trolling for McCain...just be glad he's only got only one vote that is too insignificant to decide the outcome of this election...time to put him on the Ignore List like the rest of the Obama and McCain trolls

paulpwns
11-02-2008, 12:32 PM
What if I think Obama is a lesser evil.

Should I vote for him?

JK/SEA
11-02-2008, 12:47 PM
What if I think Obama is a lesser evil.

Should I vote for him?

Well, if you're happy with the way things are now, then i suggest you vote for either McCain or Obama.

HTH..