"Women soldiers more likely to be raped by fellow soldier than to be killed by enemy"

[Liberty Star]

Heard this shocking statement in CBS news this evening:


Jane Harman, D-Calif.:

"Women serving in the military more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than to be killed by enemy fire in Iraq"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/28/eveningnews/main4554665.shtml

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-10-28-military-women-sexual-trauma_N.htm


Very sad state of affairs.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Honestly, what do you expect?

You can't tell me with a straight face that most soldiers aren't sociopaths. It's their JOB.

[phixion]

You can't stop women being stupid, I'm afraid. It's in-built.

They will continue to join the military despite knowing the inherent risk. And all women know the risk.

They will forever place themselves in dangerous situations with guys 'til the end of time. It's what they do.

It's time women started taking responsibility for their decisions, and learnt a little accountability.

Pete

[Nirvikalpa]

You can't stop women being stupid, I'm afraid. It's in-built.

They will continue to join the military despite knowing the inherent risk. And all women know the risk.

They will forever place themselves in dangerous situations with guys 'til the end of time. It's what they do.

It's time women started taking responsibility for their decisions, and learnt a little accountability.

Pete

Oh lord. :rolleyes:

I am not even going to degrade myself so low to even argue with a 'man' of your caliber.

[M House]

Seriously gotta wonder why the rip their testicles off or use that combat knife training. I know the army would probably frown on such actions and encourage the military court system to solve the issue but from what I've seen the women in the army can be pretty nasty to those supposed terrorists over there (abu prison pics) so you'd think an actual rapist would be like shit outta luck.

[cheapseats]

You can't stop women being stupid, I'm afraid. It's in-built.

They will continue to join the military despite knowing the inherent risk. And all women know the risk.

They will forever place themselves in dangerous situations with guys 'til the end of time. It's what they do.

It's time women started taking responsibility for their decisions, and learnt a little accountability.

Pete

You can't stop guys from being aggressive, I'm afraid. It's built-in, and attached.

They will continue to violate women despite knowing the inherent risks. And all guys know the risk.

They will forever insinuate themselves into exploitative situations with women 'til the end of time. It's what they do.

It's time guys started being held responsible for their outrages, with accountability exacted by castration.

[Pericles]

This is the sort of trash you get from DACOWITS and is then amplified by people who have no experience with women in the Army. As I was in the Army and able to observe, I feel more qualified to comment than those experts here in the forums that only have what they have "heard" as a basis of opinion.

The problems extend from the different aspirations and roles of officers and enlisted troops. Women officers are career minded and push for assignments that would enhance their careers, and most of the policies are a reflection of this view. For officers, the results are less tragic, as only the Infantry and Army are very physically challenging for officers. The is not the case for enlisted troops, who have to drive trucks, move boxes, and conduct tasks requiring strength and endurance.

Some of the women then develop coping strategies to deal with tasks that they can't perform physically, or don't want to do mentally. First issue is deployments, where a percentage of the women don't like to pee in the woods. They then don't drink as much as they should, get dehydrated, and become a medical case taken back to the medical clinic. Some use sex to get the guys to do things for them, which then leads to an expectation that she will give it up for any of the guys, and when pressured, then uses a harassment or rape charge to get the guy to back off. Some use sex with NCO to get lighter duties, and then when that same NCO tries to discipline her, he is a rapist. While technically not, I would have to charge him with fraternization because he was so stupid to get himself into such a situation.

The other strategy to get out of deployments is to get pregnant. The Army does not send pregnant GIs overseas. In order to avoid discipline by commanders that would then take measures against an unmarried woman who is pregnant thereby intentionally missing unit movement (a court martial offense), some will claim rape as the cause of pregnancy.

I left active duty, rather than command such a unit.

Read the studies done by Charles Moskos and there is a really good book done by an Ive League grad that enlisted and her experience - I'll try to find the title.

Summary is that women don't work out well in deployable units. Women are most useful in the Army in places that more closely replicate a civilian work environment that do not require 24X7 availability.

[dannno]

You can't stop guys from being aggressive, I'm afraid. It's built-in, and attached.

They will continue to violate women despite knowing the inherent risks. And all guys know the risk.

They will forever insinuate themselves into exploitative situations with women 'til the end of time. It's what they do.

It's time guys started being held responsible for their outrages, with accountability exacted by castration.

Or we could follow the constitution and put them in jail instead.

I think the point is, why create those situations in the first place?

[acptulsa]

Oh lord. :rolleyes:

I am not even going to degrade myself so low to even argue with a 'man' of your caliber.

Don't judge all Brits by this piece of intolerance, please. :o

[micahnelson]

Misread Title = Joke that doesn't apply.

[dannno]

This is terribly sexist. Why won't the enemy rape our male soldiers? I think we need to call the EOE office in on this one.

Read the thread title again.

[micahnelson]

Read the thread title again.

Thanks... Being up late with a 6 week old slows down the brains ability to read titles.

[dannno]

Thanks... Being up late with a 6 week old slows down the brains ability to read titles.

That's ok, I made an entire thread late the other night where I said Jim Cramer has a show on MSNBC :rolleyes:

[cheapseats]

This is the sort of trash you get from DACOWITS and is then amplified by people who have no experience with women in the Army. As I was in the Army and able to observe, I feel more qualified to comment than those experts here in the forums that only have what they have "heard" as a basis of opinion.

The problems extend from the different aspirations and roles of officers and enlisted troops. Women officers are career minded and push for assignments that would enhance their careers, and most of the policies are a reflection of this view. For officers, the results are less tragic, as only the Infantry and Army are very physically challenging for officers. The is not the case for enlisted troops, who have to drive trucks, move boxes, and conduct tasks requiring strength and endurance.

Some of the women then develop coping strategies to deal with tasks that they can't perform physically, or don't want to do mentally. First issue is deployments, where a percentage of the women don't like to pee in the woods. They then don't drink as much as they should, get dehydrated, and become a medical case taken back to the medical clinic. Some use sex to get the guys to do things for them, which then leads to an expectation that she will give it up for any of the guys, and when pressured, then uses a harassment or rape charge to get the guy to back off. Some use sex with NCO to get lighter duties, and then when that same NCO tries to discipline her, he is a rapist. While technically not, I would have to charge him with fraternization because he was so stupid to get himself into such a situation.

The other strategy to get out of deployments is to get pregnant. The Army does not send pregnant GIs overseas. In order to avoid discipline by commanders that would then take measures against an unmarried woman who is pregnant thereby intentionally missing unit movement (a court martial offense), some will claim rape as the cause of pregnancy.

I left active duty, rather than command such a unit.

Read the studies done by Charles Moskos and there is a really good book done by an Ive League grad that enlisted and her experience - I'll try to find the title.

Summary is that women don't work out well in deployable units. Women are most useful in the Army in places that more closely replicate a civilian work environment that do not require 24X7 availability.

Your implication is unmistakably that there has not been a single instance of unambiguous, unqualified rape. And the contrived pregnancies, I s'pose those are all outsourced?

[cheapseats]

You can't stop women being stupid, I'm afraid. It's in-built.

They will continue to join the military despite knowing the inherent risk. And all women know the risk.

They will forever place themselves in dangerous situations with guys 'til the end of time. It's what they do.

It's time women started taking responsibility for their decisions, and learnt a little accountability.

Pete





You can't stop guys from being aggressive, I'm afraid. It's built-in, and attached.

They will continue to violate women despite knowing the inherent risks. And all guys know the risk.

They will forever insinuate themselves into exploitative situations with women 'til the end of time. It's what they do.

It's time guys started being held responsible for their outrages, with accountability exacted by castration.





Or we could follow the constitution and put them in jail instead.

That would mark Change.





I think the point is, why create those situations in the first place?

Are you kidding me? We borrow trouble oftener even than we borrow money.

The point is that it remains more true to say that America is a Chauvinist Nation than it is to say that America is a Christian Nation. Look how ready, willing and able guys are to exonerate guys.

And do NOT tell me that women do the same. Women are the very first to stab women in the back.

Sexists have had a nice little run over, oh, CENTURIES. Trouble is, many of America's sexists are also white supremacists. They're REALLY faced with a lesser of two perceived evils: advancement of women or advancement of blacks.

This wicked charade of a campaign hasn't provided many causes to LOL, but this little pickle is pretty amusing.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am a woman and served in the Army for 7 years. I saw a lot of sexual harrassment from NCO's, myself included. No women in my unit tried to catch favors for sex with the nco's ..we were busy trying to fend them OFF. Tones GRRRrrrr


(ps...they weren't white ...but we were.)

[dannno]

I think legalizing prostitution would drastically cut down on instances of rape. Some guys really need to get laid, and some girls really need money. Allowing the free market to facilitate these transactions would help everyone.

Speaking of which, I heard San Francisco is voting on legalizing prostitution this election. The problem with legalizing it in one small area is that it is going to turn into a "haven". If it were legal in more places, then it wouldn't be a big deal or a big industry in any one particular area. Oh well, guess we have to start somewhere.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I totally disagree with legalizing prostitution. We need MORE morals in our society not LESS...we are already looking like Babylon. tones

[cheapseats]

I think legalizing prostitution would drastically cut down on instances of rape. Some guys really need to get laid, and some girls really need money. Allowing the free market to facilitate these transactions would help everyone.

Speaking of which, I heard San Francisco is voting on legalizing prostitution this election. The problem with legalizing it in one small area is that it is going to turn into a "haven". If it were legal in more places, then it wouldn't be a big deal or a big industry in any one particular area. Oh well, guess we have to start somewhere.


AMERICAN COALITION OF COCKSUCKERS
10 June 2008


A series of sexual perversions, infidelities and indiscretions committed by several elected representatives of the People...some of whom have simultaneously championed legislation disfavoring other citizens based on sexual criteria...obliges the People and Government of a Just Society to review all Law pertaining to sexuality and morality, with an eye on rectifying the inconsistencies that are hallmarks of hypocrisy.

Once an institutionalized inequity is recognized, regardless whether it makes certain of us squirm or blush or cringe or revolt, a Just Society has no alternative but to review all Law underpinning the inequity. A Just Society has no choice. America proclaims itself 'round the world...including, fantastically, by force of arms...to be a Just Society. It is just, therefore it is necessary and right, to redress injustice. Principles only...moral relativism and shades of gray need not apply. Some things ARE black and white.

Whether the Law that contrives for prostitution to be illegal is worded to connote the equal guilt of both parties of the willing if temporary partnership established by outright monetary payment for sex, there is no question that the repercussions of the outlaw of prostitution fall disproportionately...indeed, overwhelmingly...on one half of the transaction's participants. A prostitute is, by definition, a criminal. Prostitution, selling sex, is a crime...therefore, a prostitute is a criminal.

By contrast, the client of the prostitute...the one who buys the sex that the prostitute is selling...has historically, euphemistically, discreetly and oh-so-anonymously been referred to as A John. Presently, it is even fashionable to speculate, with a good deal more compassion than is commonly afforded victims much less perpetrators of crimes...as to the textured troubles that torment the complex psyche of a man who pays for sex when he "has it all."

Prostitution is a crime that cannot be committed without both buyer and seller and yet, simply and unmistakably, there is not routinely a matching prosecution of the buyers who noted lawyer/journalist Greta Van Susteren referred to on national television...where products are sold...as Consumers.

Whether because of or in addition to a regular absence of prosecution, these Consumers, generally male, are also regularly spared persecution. Whereas a hooker is widely viewed as an inferior class of person, granted not so much honor as even the label of Labor, Customer John or Client Nine is largely at liberty to resume his version of normal affairs. While there may be hell to pay on the home front if, say, a wife learns that he has has been lavishing community assets on hookers, the husband is scarcely scorned by the society in which his marriage thrives, security-wise if not sex-wise. Far be it from Country Club Existentialists to cast the first stone.

It bears mention that the gender inequity that is evident in Prostitutional Law is, predictably, accompanied by class inequity. Consumers tend generally to be of a higher socioeconomic group than the hookers they patronize...that is why they are paying the hookers and not the other way around. The gross lopsidedness of prosecution and persecution reinforces the mounting impression that justice in America is a matter of affordability.

The State cannot oblige its citizenry to regard hookers and Johns equally, even were it to issue edict that hookers shall henceforth be called Janes. Society's views of Janes and Johns differ in no small part BECAUSE of the variance in their respective statures before the Law. Inequities in administration of Prostitutional Law that favor John over Jane exacerbate rather than mitigate a historical prejudice, which is counterintuitive to the essential precept that Law is intended to protect one from another, not to benefit or penalize one over another.

It is incumbent upon us to either legalize prostitution, or criminalize infidelity. It is.

Instantly upon objective consideration of the hypocrisies and inequities that have been institutionalized via Prostitutional Law, one recognizes that the same fundamental injustice underlies illegality of prostitution concurrent with legality of pornography.

Pornography, a multi-billion dollar industry, is predicated on the outrage that a woman's body may lawfully be employed as suits the fancies, fetishes, wants and needs of men while it is unlawful for a woman to employ her OWN body as suits HER wants and needs.

On its face, its is garishly sexist and altogether unjust.

The Inhibited, the Prudes, the Gladys Kravitzes, the Parents, the Preachers, the Holy Rollers and the Holier Than Thou's will prefer, no doubt, to criminalize pornography than legalize prostitution, but the task would be fiscally ruinous as well as futile. Guys have been secreting girlie magazines between their mattresses since they were, what, twelve?

Besides which, even those who nay-say the nay-sayers are in agreement that the American economy is in shambles. What we need are additional sources of revenue, not additional costs of authoritarian and moralistic heavy-handedness.

It stands to Reason that American prostitutes shall organize into a labor union that will maximize both revenue to the state and reputability to the individual...what is known in contemporary parlance as a win-win. It is a non-marriage, to be sure, and it is perhaps not made in heaven, but it is absolutely rendered in the halls of Justice.

All of our clamoring for change notwithstanding, it can be supposed that there will be initial resistance to a legitimate, unionized prostitution class of labor. There will be the usual moralizing. As well, there is the crucial question of public health. But the truth is that Infidelity is already an established hobby, practically a national pastime, including is it the documentable hobby of some people who would confer the title of Convict upon others who practice similarly. Unionization and regulation of the Prostitution class is likely to heighten and standardize such precautions as may best protect the public health...again, considering that nothing is 100% safe and people are avidly engaged in screwing around anyway. Professionalizing the oldest profession on earth is liable, I contend, to have a mitigating affect on the divorce rate. Spouses are much more likely to withstand the damage inflicted by infidelity if it is a crass service rather than an emotional involvement.

A just society is obliged to recognize the feasibility, indeed the inevitability, of the American Coalition of Cocksuckers. Plus the acronym ACOC will slip right in to our line-up of alphabet agencies.

http://web.mac.com/implausibleendeavors/Implausible_Endeavors/Mounted_Sermons/Entries/2008/6/10_AMERICAN_COALITION_OF_COCKSUCKERS%2C_Part_1.htm l

[Number19]

I totally disagree with legalizing prostitution...??? You don't believe that individuals have the right to control their own bodies? You believe that the government has the right to tell people what they can and cannot do with their lives? It's not a question of "legalizing". Government simply shouldn't be legislating morals.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

I totally disagree with legalizing prostitution. We need MORE morals in our society not LESS...we are already looking like Babylon. tonesThe only immorality here lies in denying someone the right to do what they wish with their own body

[DAFTEK]

I think legalizing prostitution would drastically cut down on instances of rape. Some guys really need to get laid, and some girls really need money. Allowing the free market to facilitate these transactions would help everyone.

Speaking of which, I heard San Francisco is voting on legalizing prostitution this election. The problem with legalizing it in one small area is that it is going to turn into a "haven". If it were legal in more places, then it wouldn't be a big deal or a big industry in any one particular area. Oh well, guess we have to start somewhere.

I love Holland... :D

[sevin]

You can't stop women being stupid, I'm afraid. It's in-built.

Pete

I hope you're not talking about all women, as in, my wife. Use your f-ing brain and try not to make stupid generalizations.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Why is it always MEN who think prostitution should be legalized??? GO be a prostitute then and stop worrying about WOMEN's bodies..deal with your own! good grief. THis is why you think women are stupid. toneS

[dannno]

Why is it always MEN who think prostitution should be legalized???

What exactly is immoral about consensual prostitution? Certainly there is no inherent deceit occurring, no inherent stealing, no inherent physical harm.. You are acting like women cannot make this decision on their own :confused:



GO be a prostitute then and stop worrying about WOMEN's bodies..deal with your own! good grief.

Try being a male with sandpaper for hands and see if you can stop worrying about women's bodies :rolleyes:

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Why is it always MEN who think prostitution should be legalized??? GO be a prostitute then and stop worrying about WOMEN's bodies..deal with your own! good grief. THis is why you think women are stupid. toneSI don't think women should be prostitutes. I think it's a pretty dumb decision, and I would personally never use one for sex.

That says nothing about our constitutional right to freedom of choice, though. If a woman wants to sell her body, why stop her?

What gives you the authority to stand in the way of a legitimate, non-coercive market transaction?
And also, when has the illegalization of prostitution ever been anything but a detriment?

[sevin]

I don't think women should be prostitutes. I think it's a pretty dumb decision, and I would personally never use one for sex.

That says nothing about our constitutional right to freedom of choice, though. If a woman wants to sell her body, why stop her?

What gives you the authority to stand in the way of a legitimate, non-coercive market transaction?
And also, when has the illegalization of prostitution ever been anything but a detriment?

Agreed. I don't like prostitution, but I can't come up with a good reason why it should be illegal, either. So I say: let em do what they want, I don't care. But this is getting way off topic.

What was the topic? Oh, women soldiers more likely to be raped by fellow soldiers than to be killed by the enemy.

So? Does anyone actually find this surprising? What else is there to discuss?

[Peace&Freedom]

[QUOTE=dannno;1792679]What exactly is immoral about consensual prostitution? Certainly there is no inherent deceit occurring, no inherent stealing, no inherent physical harm.. You are acting like women cannot make this decision on their own :confused:

And you are default acting like there is no God or Creator, whose consent is also relevant. All sin or immorality is directly sin against God, who personally grieves regarding such misuses of His creation. Just because it doesn't follow that there has to be a civil law against it doesn't mean there is no moral law being violated. Prostitution is immoral because it is a violation of His law, similar to adultery (which is also 'consensual' as per the two parties conducting it, yet occurs without consent of the third party involved).

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

You can't legislate morality, outside of violence.

If a prostitute and her costumer are engaging in immorality, it doesn't fucking matter. They've heard of your bible, no doubt, and if they want to be moral, it's up to them.

Using your religion as an excuse to step on personal responsibility and privacy is far more immoral than prostitution or drug use could ever be. But none of you dominionists want to have that discussion, do you?

[DAFTEK]

It's immoral for two gay man or women to hump each other in their private homes and tongue themselves on public streets, yet it is legal.

Tobacco kills more people then Marijuana yet it is legal and moral and pot is not!

Abortion is what some view as immoral yet it is legal world wide, It was illegal in Romania for many years and after the 1989 Revolution there wore over 1.5 million orphans out of a population of 23+ million with some of those severely handicapped. A few hundred thousand women died in the process of trying to do home abortions and many ended up in hospitals with handcuffs then thrown in jail for 5 years!

I can go on and on but ill leave u with this thought, Remember the sign Ron Paul has on his desk! There is no such thing as moral or immoral in government! It's all bu$ine$$! :rolleyes:

[cheapseats]

And you are default acting like there is no God or Creator, whose consent is also relevant.

Excuse me? Acknowledging that individuals are free to use the Free Will that God unmistakably granted them does NOT deny the existence of God, NOR does it connote that God stands in approval of the choice.

That would be between God and the individual.




All sin or immorality is directly sin against God, who personally grieves regarding such misuses of His creation.


God "personally" grieves misuse of his creation? If God can be reduced to a person, that might explain many of our problems.




Just because it doesn't follow that there has to be a civil law against it doesn't mean there is no moral law being violated.

So what? Crimes against morality are committed all the time. Shall we have an umbrella law, Sin Is Illegal? How do we assess fines? Some displays of immorality strike me as more immoral than others.

Those who believe there is a moral law against prostitution will not become prostitutes and they will not patronize prostitutes. Or at least they will SAY they don't patronize prostitutes.




Prostitution is immoral because it is a violation of His law, similar to adultery (which is also 'consensual' as per the two parties conducting it, yet occurs without consent of the third party involved).

Are we thinking that the implement used to carve those Commandments into stone was too dull to add a few more words, or are we thinking that God made a simple oversight? You know, a mistake.

The Commandment reads, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery...not Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery Or Prostitution.

[cheapseats]

Why is it always MEN who think prostitution should be legalized??? GO be a prostitute then and stop worrying about WOMEN's bodies..deal with your own! good grief. THis is why you think women are stupid. toneS

I'm pretty sure Prostitutes think prostitution should be legal.

That women would permit themselves to be relegated into a societal underbelly while their Johns live the high life with impunity is what makes women stupid.

Who enters into a business deal where all the risk lies on one side?

Oh, that's right...the American people just entered EXACTLY that kind of a deal, behind the vision of their Treasury Secretary and the verisimilitude of their Representatives.

[klamath]

Honestly, what do you expect?

You can't tell me with a straight face that most soldiers aren't sociopaths. It's their JOB.

You can't tell me you're not an A**

[cheapseats]

What was the topic? Oh, women soldiers more likely to be raped by fellow soldiers than to be killed by the enemy.

So? Does anyone actually find this surprising?

I do.

I am surprised that I can be surprised anymore but I am. I am surprised and horrified to learn that women soldiers are more likely to be raped by fellow soldiers than killed by the enemy.

America is moving backward with regard to Women's Issues...which is pretty fucking ironic, considering we are at war with a nation that subjugates its women.




What else is there to discuss?

How best to tackle the INCREASING problem of Violence Against Women without causing all the Male Chauvinists to get their knickers in a twist.

[strapko]

I totally disagree with legalizing prostitution. We need MORE morals in our society not LESS...we are already looking like Babylon. tones

Disagree all you want... Don't impose your will on me though with religious collectivist policies or "morals".

Since I love George Carlin, I will quote him:

"Why is prostitution illegal? Fucking is legal, selling is legal; why is selling fucking Illegal? Hardly the worst thing in the world you can do--is give someone an orgasm."

[strapko]

Why is it always MEN who think prostitution should be legalized??? GO be a prostitute then and stop worrying about WOMEN's bodies..deal with your own! good grief. THis is why you think women are stupid. toneS

Why would you even write this? If prostitution was legal and 0% of the women of the world didn't want to do it, it wouldn't matter would it?

[Pericles]

Your implication is unmistakably that there has not been a single instance of unambiguous, unqualified rape. And the contrived pregnancies, I s'pose those are all outsourced?

Your conclusions are totally incorrect. The source identified 68 cases of sexual assault (undoubtedly lower than what really happens), which of course exceeds the number of women killed in combat. By law and regulation, there are supposed to be no women in combat, so the number of women killed by enemy soldiers is supposed to be zero. That, by definition makes it more likely that a woman will experience rape than battlefield death. Therefore, the report is based either on ignorance of what the statistical incidence should be, or is an attempt to mislead.

An old study http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/acsc/99-016.pdf

"The impact of pregnancy on U.S. Army readiness came to the forefront following the Persian Gulf War and the large-scale deployment of military servicewomen. Some deploying units reported that non-deployable rates for pregnancy among women were as much as 30% of those assigned. Numerous studies were conducted to determine the impact of pregnancy on Army readiness and different conclusions were drawn. From a tactical perspective the numbers of non-deployable for pregnancy are more than 16% in support units with a high concentration of female soldiers"

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Don't judge all Brits by this piece of intolerance, please. :o

Like how you tolerate my dissent? :rolleyes:

The military is an evil enterprise. END IT

[SeanEdwards]

Why is it always MEN who think prostitution should be legalized??? GO be a prostitute then and stop worrying about WOMEN's bodies..deal with your own! good grief. THis is why you think women are stupid. toneS

In San Francisco, the bill to de-criminalize prostitution is being pushed by the women prostitutes. They want to be able to seek protection from police for the various crimes they are exposed to in their profession, such as assault, rape, etc. without being thrown in jail themselves for being prostitutes.